JIM: THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT THE FRONT-RUNNER FOR THE ELECTION REJECTS A CALL FROM HIS APARTMENT FOR MULTIPLE DEBATES.

RHODE ISLAND OFTEN TRIES TO REPLICATE MASSACHUSETTS.

WHY NOT TAX CUTS USING MILLIONS FROM A HEFTY STATE SURPLUS?

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY.

>> I AM JOHN HAYES AND WHITE JUNIOR.

A LIVELY EXPERIMENT PROVIDES INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS ON POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US ON THE PANEL IS STEVE FRIAS NATIONAL COMMITMENT FOR THE RHODE ISLAND REPUBLICAN PARTY, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR BOB WALSH AND REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST LISA PELOSI.

WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'’S LIVELY.

I'’M JIM HUMMEL.

HISTORY WAS MADE AGAIN IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

THIS WEEK.

WE WILL HAVE MUCH MORE ON A NOW FORMER SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY'’S OUSTING ON TUESDAY.

DURING THE PRIMARY SEASON GABE AMO WENT ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE TRYING TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF TO THE VOTERS OF THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

IT INCLUDED A ROBUST DEBATE SCHEDULE UP UNTIL EARLIER THIS WEEK, THOUGH, HE AGREED TO ONLY ONE DEBATE WITH HIS REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER GARY LEONARD.

BOB, HE HAS SINCE AGREED TO CHANNEL 10.

BUT IT IS FAR SHORT I THINK OF WHAT SOME PEOPLE THAT I TALKED TO THINK YOU SHOULD DO.

POLITICALLY PROBABLY A GOOD MOVE, BUT I DON'’T KNOW ABOUT THE OPTICS.

BOB: POLITICALLY PROBABLY A GOOD MOVE AND THE OPTICS ARE PROBABLY NEUTRAL.

I TOLD ONE OF OUR REPORTER FRIENDS I BLAME THE MEDIA.

JIM: WHY NOT?

BOB: BECAUSE INSTEAD OF ASKING THE QUESTION, WILL YOU COMMIT TO AT LEAST THREE DEBATES AGAINST YOUR OPPONENT IF YOU WIN THE PRIMARY, DURING THE PRIMARY DEBATES, AND THERE WERE 12 OF THEM SOMETHING I MET THE MEDIA COULD HAVE STRAIGHTENED THIS OUT.

I GUARANTEE YOU IN EVERY FUTURE DEBATE THEY WILL ASK IN THE PRIMARY, WILL YOU DEBATES?

THEY SHOULD ASK ALL CANDIDATES, ARE YOU COMMITTING TO THE RATES?

I GUESS THE COMMITMENT IS NOT TO DO THAT TWO MAJOR TELEVISED DEBATES.

I UNDERSTAND WHY IN THE POLITICS OF A RACE WHERE YOUR OPPONENT IS NOT WELLKNOWN AT ALL, WHY WOULD YOU GIVE THEM FREE MEDIA WHEN YOU ARE PAYING FOR MEDIA?

I THINK GABE AMO WILL RUN THE SAME GENERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN AS HE DID IN THE PRIMARY.

I CALL IT THE TORTOISE AND HARE RACE.

YOU KEEP GOING ALONG DOING WORK RAISING YOUR MONEY AND GO ON TV HEAVY AT THE END WHEN PEOPLE ARE FINALLY PAYING ATTENTION.

IT WORKED IN THE PRIMARY AND WILL WORK IN THE GENERAL.

STEVE: I AGREE THAT IT WILL PROBABLY NOT HURT HIM MUCH AT ALL.

IT IS A POLITICAL MOVE TO BASICALLY SAY, HEY, I WANT TO WIN THIS.

I HAVE THE MONEY AND RESOURCES.

I DON'’T NEED TO GIVE THE TIME OF DAY TO THE PUBLIC TO HAVE A DEBATE ON THESE ISSUES.

BUT I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED PEOPLE NEED TO DEBATE, PUBLIC OFFICIALS WHEN THEY ARE RUNNING TO OFFICE.

I THINK THIS IS REFLECTIVE IN SOME WAYS THAT GABE AMO THINKS HE CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS NOW, WHAT DOES HE THINK HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IN WASHINGTON?

IF YOU WANT TO IGNORE THE PUBLIC , I WON'’T GIVE YOU A TIME FOR DEBATE WITHOUT PULLING TEETH, THIS IS WHAT STARTS HAPPENING WITH POLITICIANS.

THEY GET AWAY WITH IT AND THEN YOU CAN HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

LISA: I DID NOT KNOW WHO HE WAS WHEN HIS NAME FIRST CAME OUT.

JIM: FOR FIVE MONTHS AGO.

LISA: I THINK THERE WAS A MALL POLITICAL CIRCLE -- A SMALL POLITICAL CIRCLE AWARE OF HIM.

HE BENEFITED FROM PUBLIC EXPOSURE HE GOT.

I THOUGHT IT WAS OFFPUTTING FOR HIM TO SAY, NOW THAT I HAVE ONE THE PRIMARY, I WANT TO DO MORE THAN ONE DEBATE.

WHAT CONCERNS ME IS EARLY VOTING IN A COUPLE WEEKS.

THESE TWO DEBATES ON THE TWO TELEVISION STATIONS DON'’T HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER EARLY VOTING STARTS.

JIM: PRESUMABLY THE PEOPLE THAT VOTE EARLY WILL ALREADY KNOW WHO THEY WANT TO CHOOSE AND VOTE AND HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION AND THOSE WHO WANT MORE INFORMATION CAN WAIT AND WATCH DEBATES AT THE END.

LISA: IF YOU ARE TRYING TO DO THE BEST PROCESS FOR VOTERS TO SEE BOTH CANDIDATES SIDE BY SIDE, YOU CAN WAIT TO VOTE IF THEY SO DESIRE BASED ON THAT THEORY, RIGHT?

YOU DON'’T HAVE TO VOTE EARLY.

IF I LIVED IN THE FIRST DISTRICT I WOULD VOTE EARLY BECAUSE I WOULD VOTE FOR GABE.

JIM: BOB, THE ISSUE I HAVE, GABE IS A LIKABLE GUY AND I AGREE WITH YOUR ANALYSIS.

THE THING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEER HE SAYS PEOPLE KNOW WHERE I STAND.

PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW WHO YOU WERE FOUR MONTHS AGO.

UNLESS YOU WERE LOCKED IN ON THE PRIMARY.

EVERYBODY KNOWS WHO I AM BECAUSE I WENT OUT AND IT IS.

I THINK THAT'’S A REACH.

BOB: I LOVE DEBATES.

IF I CAME BACK AND DID THIS AGAIN 30 YEARS LATER I WOULD DEBATE ALL THE TIME EVEN AS MY ADVISOR TOLD ME NOT TO.

BUT I APPRECIATE THE ADVICE AND STRATEGY.

NOBODY IS WORKING HARDER THAN GABE AMO AS A CANDIDATE.

HE'’S EVERYWHERE.

I RAN INTO SOMEONE YESTERDAY THAT SAW HIM THREE TIMES IN THE LAST WEEK DURING EVENTS IN THEIR COMMUNITY SPIRIT IS ENERGIZER BUNNY OF -- IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

HE IS THE ENERGIZER BUNNY OF CANDIDATES.

HE IS JUST NOT CHOOSING TO USE HIS PLATFORM TO ELEVATE AN OPPONENT MOST PEOPLE CANNOT NAME.

HE IS A NICE GUY.

THE REPUBLICANS WERE LUCKY TO RECRUIT SOMEONE LIKE THAT TO RUN FOR OFFICE.

BUT, IT IS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION IN THIS RACE.

>> GOING TO A LOT OF EVENTS AND BEING OUT THERE IS ONE THING.

BUT IN A DEBATE UNEXPECTED THINGS CAN HAPPEN.

YOU ARE QUESTIONED UNDER THE MICROSCOPE.

THAT IS SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE SEE WHO YOU ARE AND HOW YOU HANDLE CRITICAL QUESTIONS.

THAT IS WHY DEBATES ARE IMPORTANT.

CAN STATEMENTS, PRESS RELEASES CHEMIST SCRIPTED EVENTS, THAT'’S NOT THE SAME AS A DEBATE WHERE YOU ARE BEING QUESTIONED AND FORCED TO ADDRESS CERTAIN ISSUES BY THE OPPONENT AND THE MEDIA.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

JIM: I WONDER HOW MUCH IS DRIVEN BY CONSULTANTS.

IF THIS WERE MADE, WHAT WILL HE WORRY ABOUT?

A LITTLE SLIP?

IF I WAS A CANDIDATE I WOULD TELL CONSULTANTS, I APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE BUT LET'’S DO FIVE OR SIX.

LET'’S JUST DO IT.

LISA: I THINK YOU HAVE DONE THAT.

I THINK GARY LEONARD SHOULD NOT HAVE ASKED FOR AS MANY AS HE DID.

JIM: IT WAS HIGH NEGOTIATING.

STEVE: YOU DON'’T REALLY HAVE DEBATES ANYMORE.

WE HAVE FORUMS WHERE WE THROW QUESTIONS AT ALL OF THEM.

I WOULD RATHER IN THE PRIMARY SEE REAL DEBATES AMONG FOUR OR FIVE CANDIDATES INSTEAD OF 12 PEOPLE ON A STAGE.

JIM: WHAT DOES GARY LEONARD HAVE TO DO NOW?

APART FROM THE DEBATES WE ARE A LITTLE LESS THAN A MONTH OUT.

LISA: IT IS BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

THAT IS WHAT GABE DID DURING THE PRIMARY.

KNOCKING ON DOORS.

HE REALLY JUST NEEDS TO GET HIS, YOU KNOW, PERSON OUT THERE, HIS PEOPLE OUT THERE DOING IT.

I REMEMBER WHEN PATRICK KENNEDY WOULD RUN.

THE REPUBLICAN OPPONENT WOULD ALWAYS GET ABOUT 35% ANYWAY.

SO THAT IS BUILT IN.

THIS DISTRICT IS SO DEMOCRAT RIGHT NOW SO IT'’S A REAL CHALLENGE FOR HIM.

MAYBE HE SHOULD THINK ABOUT NEXT YEAR.

THIS IS GAME AND FOR THE YEAR UNTIL NEXT YEAR'’S ELECTION.

SO PUT DOWN A NICE FRAMEWORK AND RUN AGAIN.

BOB: THE DIFFERENT SAYS THIS IS A SPECIAL ELECTION.

A SPECIAL ELECTION IS WHERE THINGS CAN HAPPEN AND IT IS ABOUT TURNOUT.

SO WHAT MR. LEONARD WOULD HAVE TO DO IS AN INCREDIBLE JOB OF TURNING OUT BASE REPUBLICAN TYPE VOTERS, PEOPLE THAT GENERALLY VOTE REPUBLICAN.

IT MIGHT BE ABOUT ONE THIRD IN THAT DISTRICT.

IF YOU HAVE A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF THEM COME OUT AND DEMOCRATS TAKEN FOR GRANTED YOU CAN SCORE POINTS AND MAKE IT COMPETITIVE.

YOU HAVE TO GIVE PEOPLE A REASON NOT TO VOTE FOR GABE AMO.

THERE ARE REASONS POTENTIALLY.

THAT A -- HE IS BASICALLY A WASHINGTON POLITICAL OPERATIVE OVERTIME AND WENT FROM LOBBYING TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND IN CONTRAST MR. LEONARD HAS SERVED OUR COUNTRY.

YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH A REASON TO VOTE AGAINST THE DEMOCRAT THEN GET YOUR BASE OUT AND MOTIVATE.

I AM NOT SAYING HE WOULD WIN.

BUT AT LEAST YOU CAN MAKE IT COMPETITIVE AND BUILD FROM THERE IN THE FUTURE.

STEVE: I THINK THE DEBATE IS A GREATER RISK FOR KERNEL LETTER -- GARY LEONARD THAN GABE AMO.

ONE QUESTION DIVIDES RHODE ISLAND ON THE METAL.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT DONALD TRUMP?

DONALD TRUMP HAS A HARD CORE SUPPORTERS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY EVEN IN THE FIRST DISTRICT AND I SUSPECT GARY LEONARD IS NOT FOND OF DONALD TRUMP AND WOULD SAY SO BECAUSE HE SEEMS LIKE AN HONEST STRAIGHT SHOOTER AND THAT WOULD TURN OFF SOME OF THE NORMAL REPUBLICAN CONSTITUENT.

IT IS WHAT I USED TO SAY TO ALAN RUNNING IN THE SECOND DISTRICT LAST TIME.

TRUMP IS YOUR WORST ENEMY.

YOU ARE NOT LIKE HIM.

LISA: WHAT WILL THE VOTER TURNOUT BE?

ARE THEY WEARY?

HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL COME OUT?

JIM: BACK TO WASHINGTON.

NOW, FORMER SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY WAS THE FIRST EVER TO BE REMOVED AS HOUSE SPEAKER.

THERE IS A BIG VACUUM IN WASHINGTON NOW.

SEVERAL NAMES ARE COMING FORTH.

IT WILL PROBABLY BE DECIDED BY THE TIME WE HAVE A SHOW NEXT WEEK.

STEVE, LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU AS A NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN IN RHODE ISLAND.

WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

STEVE: PRETTY SAD.

IT WILL START OUT FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PERSPECTIVE, WE LOOK PRETTY DYSFUNCTIONAL.

I THINK THIS IS NOT WHY PEOPLE VOTED FOR ABOUT THE CANS, TO GO TO CONGRESS AND SEE THIS BEHAVIOR.

IT WAS A SAD DAY FOR AMERICA.

I AM NOT A BIG KEVIN MCCARTHY FAN.

BUT WHAT HAPPENED HERE WAS A PERSON WORKED WITH DEMOCRATS TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN IN A BIPARTISAN WAY AND INSTEAD -- WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IS THE EIGHT OR SEVEN REPUBLICANS THAT DID NOT LIKE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SIDELINED.

INSTEAD, THE DEMOCRATS, WITH THEM, DECIDED TO TAKE THE GUY DOWN AFTER DOING WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE RESPONSIBLE THING, TRYING TO WORK -- WHEN YOU ARE IN A DIVIDED GOVERNMENT -- WORK WITH THE OTHER SIDE TO KEEP GOVERNMENT OPEN.

THE DEMOCRATS SAW THE GAME IN BRINGING AS GAIN IN BRINGING MCCARTHY DOWN TO READ THE BIG LOSER WILL BE BIPARTISANSHIP GOING FORWARD AND LONG-TERM THE ABILITY FOR THE COUNTRY TO WORK TOGETHER WITH A DIVIDED GOVERNMENT.

BOB: THAT'’S WHAT'’S DEPRESSING.

10 OR 20 YEARS AGO YOU COULD HAVE PEOPLE COME ACROSS THE AISLE SAME WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

WE CAN'’T HAVE THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

NOW A COUPLE PEOPLE WANT TO BLOW IT ALL UP AND DON'’T CARE.

LISA: THEY ARE RABBLE-ROUSERS TO DO THAT.

TO ME WHAT IS DISAPPOINTING ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS IS THE SHORT GAME.

THE SHORT WIN NOW.

BUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR WITH THE GENERAL ELECTION IF THE DEMOCRATS WIN THE HOUSE?

I DON'’T KNOW HOW MANY REPUBLICANS THAT ARE HAPPY THEY KNOCKED OUT SPEAKER MCCARTHY ARE LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD TO SEE THE IMPACT ON OUR RACES NEXT YEAR.

STEVE: HEN THE OTHER SIDE IS DOING YOUR JOB FOR YOU YOU DON'’T HAVE TO SAY MUCH MORE.

KEVIN MCCARTHY LOST THE SPEAKERSHIP THAT HE GOT IT BY NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS IN HIS OWN DELEGATION.

JIM: THAT'’S THE ONLY WAY HE COULD GET IT.

STEVE: MAY BE THAT IS WHEN YOU SAY NO.

WHEN YOU SAY ANY ONE PERSON APPEAR CAN MAKE THE MOTION YOU PUT A TIME LIMIT ON YOURSELF.

IRONICALLY, MCCARTHY WAS A DEEPLY PARTISAN REPUBLICAN AND GAVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN CONGRESS A HARD TIME BUT HE SAW THE GREATER WISDOM OF A BIPARTISAN BUDGET BILL.

IT'’S UNFORTUNATE THAT WAS HIS UNDOING.

BUT, THERE IS NOT, AND THERE ARE SO FEW FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH IN CONGRESS TO REMEMBER WHAT BIPARTISANSHIP REALLY LOOKS LIKE THAT IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE ANOTHER CYCLE FOR IT TO COME OVER.

PATRICK MCHENRY DID HIMSELF NO FAVORS.

THE FIRST THING HE DID ON THE JOB AS THE INTERIM SPEAKER WAS TOLD NANCY PELOSI HE WANTED A LITTLE HIDEAWAY OFFICE DOWN THE HALL, A COURTESY EXTENDED TO FORMER SPEAKERS OF THE HOUSE.

SHE TOLD -- HE TOLD HER TO TAKE HER STUFF AND MOVE IT OUT.

SHE WAS NOT THERE.

SHE WAS AT THE FUNERAL OF HER GOOD FRIEND DIANE FEINSTEIN.

STEVE: THE OBJECTS WERE HORRIBLE.

BOB: THE OBJECTS WERE BAD.

THE DEMOCRATS WORKING WITH MATT GAETZ, VOTING WITH MATT GAETZ TO TAKE DOWN A SPEAKER THAT HAD JUST WORKED WITH THEM TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN.

THAT ARE -- THOSE ARE THE REAL OBJECTS THAT MATTER.

REGARDLESS TO THE NEGOTIATION AT THE BEGINNING.

FOR ALMOST OUR ENTIRE HISTORY YOU COULD HAVE ONE PERSON MAKE A MOTION TO VACATE.

OK?

EXCEPT FOR FOUR YEARS, ALMOST THE ENTIRE HISTORY ONE PERSON COULD MAKE A MOTION.

WHY THAT NEVER WORKED BEFORE IS IF YOU HAD ONE FLANK, ONE PART OF THE PARTY DO THAT, THE OTHER PARTY WOULD NOT GO ALONG WITH IT.

THEY WERE NOT INTO THAT STUFF.

THIS TIME, THE DEMOCRATS SAID, LET'’S TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT AND WRING DOWN MCCARTHY.

THAT IS -- BRING DOWN MCCARTHY.

THAT IS WHY IT HAPPENED.

LISA: HE IS THE DEVIL WE KNOW.

SKELLY'’S AND JIM JORDAN ARE MORE TO THE RIGHT OF KEVIN MCCARTHY.

WHO IS NEXT THERE?

I DO NOT KNOW IF THE DEMOCRATS THOUGHT ABOUT, DO THEY JUST WANT TO GET RID OF KEVIN MCCARTHY?

WHO IS THINKING LONG TERM OF WHO IS NEXT IN THE SUCCESSION PLAN?

WHO KNOWS HOW NEXT WEEK WILL GO WITH THE VOTE.

IF IT IS NOT THE TWO OF THEM, HOW MANY WEEKS.

IT TOOK FIVE DAYS FOR KEVIN MCCARTHY TO BECOME SPEAKER IN JANUARY.

HOW LONG WILL THIS ONE TAKE?

STEVIE -- BOB: SOME REPUBLICANS ARE PROBABLY LIKE WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE DEMOCRATS BUT WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT BACKLASH BREED I THINK WORD CAME FROM AKEEM JEFFRIES THAT WE WILL BOOK -- WORK TOGETHER AND NOT DO IT.

I THINK SOME DEMOCRATS IN THE RANK AND FALL SAID, LET'’S GO FOR MCCARTHY.

AND IT IS TOO BAD THAT THOSE ON EITHER SIDE CANNOT COME TOGETHER BECAUSE LEADERSHIP IS TELLING THEM NOT TO.

STEVE: I THINK IT IS THE WHERE THINGS ARE ON BOTH SIDES.

I THINK IT'’S EXTREME TO BLAME DEMOCRATS.

BUT, THAT IS WHERE THE VOTES WENT.

BOB: WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS LIKE THAT IT TAKES TWO TO MAKE SOMETHING BAD HAPPEN.

THEY HAVE THE PROBLEM SOLVERS CAUCUS OF MODERATE DEMOCRATS AND THEY DID NOT SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS.

THEY JUST CREATED MORE.

STEVE: MCCARTHY DID NOT DO HIMSELF ANY FAVORS WHEN HE TRIED TO SPIN A POTENTIAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN AND PUT IT ON BIDEN.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS RIDICULOUS.

I UNDERSTAND WHY HE DID IT.

BUT I REMEMBER IT WAS LIKE, THIS IS YOUR MESS, CLEAN IT UP.

BOB: HAD ALLEN FOUND BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN HIS RACE -- STEVE: HE COULD HAVE BEEN THE PEACE BROKER.

BOB: I WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH HIM THE NEXT DAY SAYING NOW IS YOUR TIME TO COME HOME TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAUSE HOW CAN YOU STAND THIS NONSENSE?

LISA: SOMETIMES IT IS GOOD TO TRY TO BE THE VOICE OF THE CAUCUS TO AFFECT CHANGE.

YOU DON'’T HAVE TO SWITCH PARTIES.

JIM: THERE HAS BEEN GOOD BUDGET NEWS WITH ALL THESE STORM CLOUDS HANGING FOR THE OUT YEARS.

RHODE ISLAND RUNNING A LARGER THAN EXPECTED SURPLUS, YET, NO SPECIFIC TAX BREAKS.

GOVERNOR MCKEE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE ON THE RADIO THIS WEEK.

THE REASON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS IS MASSACHUSETTS HAS BEEN DOING TARGETED TAX BREAKS FOR SENIORS AND THE DISABLED.

THEY BROUGHT DOWN SOME OF THE CAPITAL GAINS.

I HEARD THE GOVERNOR ON THE RADIO THE OTHER DAY SAY, WE ELIMINATED THE CAR TAX.

WE DID THE TANGIBLES.

PEOPLE LOOK TO THE NORTH.

WE ALWAYS TRY TO EMULATE MASSACHUSETTS.

WHY CAN'’T WE SQUEEZE MONEY OUT IN DIRECT TAX RELIEF?

LISA: HE TRIED TO DO THAT IN HIS BUDGET PROPOSAL WITH THE SALES TAX.

JIM: .15.

LISA: EVERY FAMILY WOULD SAVE $70 AND THEN IT BECAME $35 PER YEAR TO DO THAT.

AS A TAXPAYER I DON'’T WANT THE MONEY COMING BACK TO ME IN THAT SMALL OF AN INCREMENT.

SPEND MONEY ON PROBLEMS WE HAVE AND MAKE A BIGGER IMPACT WITH IT.

BOB: WHAT LISA SAID.

SPEND THE MONEY ON PROBLEMS WE HAVE AND MAKE A BIGGER IMPACT.

YOU CANNOT START TALKING ABOT TAX CUTS WHEN WE HAVE THE HOMELESS PROBLEM, WHEN WE HAVE 900 KIDS IN THE STATE THAT NEED EARLY INTERVENTION AND ARE STILL ON A WAITING LIST.

STEVE: BUT DHS IS RUNNING A 60 MILLION DOLLARS SURPLUS.

BOB: THAT'’S BECAUSE THEY CANNOT FILL POSITIONS.

WE HAVE PLENTY OF NEEDS FOR THE MONEY.

IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE WITH MASSACHUSETTS, A HIGHER INCOME TAX RATE AT THE TOP BOX -- BRACKET THEN WE DO, IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE WITH MASSACHUSETTS AND RAISE WAGES MAKE TEACHER SALARIES COMPETITIVE.

MAKE SALARIES COMPETITIVE FOR ALL THE PLACES WE ARE LOSING PEOPLE ACROSS THE BOARD TO MASSACHUSETTS.

WHEN WE ARE MATCHING MASSACHUSETTS IN EDUCATIONAL OUTCOMES,, REDUCING HOMELESSNESS AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE COMPARE OURSELVES IN, THEN GO WILD WITH TAX CUTS.

UNTIL THEN, WHAT'’S MY -- MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUE ON THE PANEL SAID, SPEND THE MONEY AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

STEVE: THAT IS NOT TYPICAL FOR A REPUBLICAN MESSAGE, WHAT LISA SAID.

I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED I WOULD RATHER HAVE MONEY IN MY POCKET AND DECIDE HOW I WANT TO SPEND IT EVEN IF IT IS A DOLLAR THEN HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT FOR ME.

I GREW UP IN MASSACHUSETTS.

I CAME HERE ABOUT 30 YEARS AGO.

AND --.

JIM: YOU ARE COMING FOR FOUR YEARS AND JUST STAY HERE.

STEVE: I LOOK AT IT AND SAY MY FATHER AND MOM THERE ARE DOING BETTER THAN ME BECAUSE OF THE TAX SITUATION.

THEY ARE GETTING TAX RELIEF.

IT IS A LIBERAL STATE, BUT THEY ARE MUCH MORE COMPETENT.

BOB: THEY HAVE MORE MONEY.

STEVE: THEY ARE MORE COMPETENT WITH MANAGEMENT AND ON TAXES IN GENERAL AREA ON SCHOOLS, THEY ARE BETTR.

WE HAVE TO START FIGURING OUT HOW TO GET TO THAT LEVEL AND WE DON'’T.

INSTEAD IT IS LIKE LET'’S SPIN SOMETHING HERE, LET'’S SPEND SOMETHING DEAR -- THERE.

UNTIL OUR TAXES ARE COMPETITIVE WITH MASSACHUSETTS WE CANNOT COMPETE WITH MASSACHUSETTS.

LISA: WHEN I READ THAT APARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES DID NOT SPEND ALL THEIR MONEY I WAS RUBBING MY EYES.

THEY USED TO BE THAT APARTMENT THAT OVER SPENDS.

WE ARE IN A CRISIS OF EMPLOYMENT TRY TO ATTRACT PEOPLE.

WE CANNOT HAVE THE RIGHT NUMBER OF QUALIFIED PEOPLE AT NURSING HOMES TAKING CARE OF FOLKS, LET THAT MONEY GO TO PEOPLES SALARIES SO WE CAN ATTRACT PEOPLE AND FILL THESE JOBS.

THAT IS WHAT I AM LOOKING AT.

BOB: I AGREE WITH LISA.

I WOULD REPHRASE YOUR STATEMENT AND SAY UNTIL OUR WAGES ARE COMPETITIVE WITH MASSACHUSETTS WE WILL NOT COMPUTE.

STEVE: LOOK, WHEN IT COMES TO THE BUSINESS, HOW DO YOU GET BUSINESSES TO COME TO A STATE?

PARTIALLY, EITHER THE TAX CLIMATE IS GOOD, WE HAVE A GREAT EDUCATED WORKFORCE.

BUT IT IS USUALLY ACCOMMODATION OF THE TWO HERE IN THE NORTHEAST.

WHEN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM IS MEDIOCRE TO SUBPAR AND OUR TAXES ARE HIGH, THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

BOB: OUR TAXES ALL IN ARE NOT ACTUALLY HIGH.

STEVE: WHEN THE TAX FOUNDATION PUTS YOU IN THE BOTTOM 10%.

THEN I THINK YOU ARE HIGH.

BOB: WE ARE HIGH IN PROPERTY TAXES.

STEVE: AND NOT IN OTHER CATEGORIES.

OUR SALES TAX IS HIGH BUT NARROW.

OUR INCOME IS RIGHT IN THE RANGE OF THE STATES LIKE OURS BREED WE ARE HIGH COMPARED TO ALABAMA.

BOB: STATES LIKE OURS.

STATES WITH HIGH TAXES.

STEVE: THE PROBLEM IS YOU COMPETE IN A NATIONAL MARKET.

BOB: WE DON'’T.

STEVE: HERE WE GO, WE DON'’T LIKE CERTAIN BUSINESSES.

BOB: THAT'’S RIGHT.

WE DON'’T LIKE THE JOB.

WE DON'’T LIKE BAD JOBS.

LISA: THIS IS THE DEBATE WE WANT TO SEE BETWEEN GABE AMO AND GARY LEONARD.

BOB: -- JIM: AREN'’T YOU GLAD I DIDN'’T PUT YOU BETWEEN THESE TWO?

BOB: IT IS POSSIBLE GARY AGREES WITH ME AND LISA.

STEVE: I WENT TO HIGH SCORE IN MASSACHUSETTS WHEN IT WAS TAXA CHUSETTS.

THAT SEEMS LIKE A DISTANT MEMORY.

BOB: THIS IS A FUNDAMENTAL DISAGREEMENT WE HAVE.

LISA: TAKE IT OUTSIDE.

JIM: WE ARE TAPING ON A FRIDAY MORNING.

ON THURSDAY NIGHT THE PROVIDENCE CITY COUNCIL OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVED A FOUR FOOT DECK PROPOSAL PUT FORTH BY MAYOR SMILEY FOR PAYMENT I -- IN LIEU OF TAXES, THE ACRONYM PILOT.

IT IS THE FOUR UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES IN PROVIDENCE CONTRIBUTE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT 20 YEARS TO TRY TO OFFSET CITY EXPENSES.

BOB, LET'’S BEGIN WITH YOU.

THERE WERE SOME PROTESTS.

I ALWAYS FIND IT FUNNY.

THE BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENTS THAT DON'’T WANT TO CALL IT COLUMBUS DAY AND THEY DO NOT REALIZE IT WAS FOUNDED ON SLAVE TRADING.

BROWN UNIVERSITY, I KNOW YOU BOTH GRADUATED FROM THERE.

THEY SEEM A LITTLE OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE FACT THEY ARE GIVEN MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

BOB: I WILL SAY I WAS AMUSED BY A COMMENT FROM A BROWN STUDENT THAT SAYS, WELL, IT WAS NOT UNTIL I GOT TO COLLEGES THAT I WAS AWARE THAT COLLEGES DO NOT PAY PROPERTY TAXES.

STEVE AND I BOTH IN HIGH SCHOOL TOOK A COURSE ON TAXATION POLICY AND OTHER MUNICIPAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT SO WE KNEW WHEN WE GOT AROUND THEY DO NOT PAY TAXES.

THAT ASIDE, I THINK MAYOR SMILEY ND COUNCIL PRESIDENT MILLER DID A GOOD JOB.

I HAD A FRONT ROW SEAT 20 YEARS AGO WHEN DAVID CICILLINE WAS THE NEW MAYOR NEGOTIATING THE FIRST ONE OF THESE.

I HATE WE HAVE TO DO IT.

I WHICH -- WISH THE STATE FULLY FUNDED PILOT.

I THINK NONPROFITS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ENTITIES.

I THINK THE PROBLEM 20 YEARS AGO WAS WE CHANGED THE NATURE OF RELATIONSHIPS SO IT IS PURELY TRANSACTIONAL NOW BETWEEN NONPROFITS AND THE CITY.

THAT SAID, I THINK THEY DO HAVE AN OBLIGATION.

I REMEMBER THE MATH FROM 20 YEARS AGO.

WE SAID, YOU GET POLICE AND FIRE SERVICES.

WE FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT COSTS TO SERVICE YOUR ENTITY AND WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO SSU FOR IT.

STEVE: IS BROWN PICKING UP ITS OWN TRASH?

BOB: YES AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CAMPUS POLICE.

EVEN BACK THEN THEY ADOPTED -- AND STUDENTS DON'’T LIKE THAT EITHER.

BUT I THINK A LOT OF CREDIT GOES TO THE MAYOR IN DOING THIS.

A LOT OF CREDIT GOES TO THE COUNCIL THAT HAS SEEN THE BIG PICTURE THAT WE ARE LEGALLY ENTITLED TO NOTHING.

WE HAVE PROBABLY THE BEST DEAL NET THREE.

I DO NOT KNOW THEY SHOULD AFTER LIFESPAN ARE NOT.

I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

I'’M NOT TOTALLY ON BOARD WITH THAT PART.

LISA: I THINK I NEED TO DISCLOSE I AM ONE OF THE FOUR SCHOOLS.

BUT, THAT SAID, WORDS MATTER.

IN THIS CASE, IT IS VOLUNTARY PAYMENTS.

THEN THERE IS THE STATE PILOT PROGRAM.

WHAT SOMETIMES IS PUSHED OFF TO THE SIDE, NOT ONLY ARE SCHOOLS COMING FORWARD WITH THE AGREEMENT WE COME TOGETHER WITH MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OVER 20 YEARS TO BE VERY PREDICTABLE TO THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE BY JUST COMING IN, THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE GETS MONEY FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND UNDER THE PAYMENT IN LIEU OF TAXES PROGRAM.

SO THEY GET MONEY FROM THE UNIVERSITY PLUS RIGHT NOW THE PILOT IS FUNDED AT 27%, SO THEY GET 27% OF THAT.

IT'’S NOT A BAD DEAL.

I DO WANT TO COMMEND THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL AND THE COUNCIL PRESIDENT.

THIS WAS A GOOD NEGOTIATION.

THIS WAS NOT BLOOD ON THE FLOOR.

THIS WAS WELL DONE.

I THINK THE COUNCIL RECOGNIZED THAT THE SCHOOL STEPPED OUT.

WE KNOW THIS WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

NOW, WE CAN WORK TOGETHER COLLABORATIVELY ON A LOT OF OTHER INITIATIVES TO HELP THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE GOING FORWARD.

JIM: BROWN GRAD, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

STEVE: I THINK IT IS PROBABLY THE BEST DEAL SMILEY COULD COME UP WITH RIGHT NOW.

I HAVE PERSONAL CRITIQUES OF IT, BUT EVERYBODY PROBABLY WOULD.

FIRST, I AM NOT A BIG FAN OF LONG-TERM 20 YEAR AGREEMENTS FOR THESE SORTS OF THINGS.

I AM MORE INTO SMALLER TIME PERIODS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT PROJECT WHAT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FUTURE.

PAYMENTS INCREASE AT A RATE OF 2% FROM A 3% OVER 20 YEARS.

YOU HAVE HIGH INFLATION.

JIM: MAY BE THE ENDOWMENT WILL GO UP $2 BILLION.

STEVE: YOU HAVE TO PROJECT WHAT PROVIDENCE'’S FINANCIAL PROBLEMS WILL BE.

EVERY TIME THERE IS A RECESSION THE STATE AND CITY SENT TOWNS GET AHEAD.

PEOPLE'’S PROPERTY TAXES GO UP BY MORE THAN 2% OR 3%.

JIM: YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT BECAUSE CICILLINE SOUNDED LIKE A GOOD DEAL OF THE TIME BUT BY THE END IT DID NOT LOOK SO GOOD.

STEVE: AGAIN, THE COMPARISON ALWAYS HAS TO BE TO NOTHING.

YOU GET NOTHING.

THERE IS NO LEGAL ENTITLEMENT TO ANYTHING.

WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE, AND YOU CAN ADD TO THE AGREEMENT STILL IS SAY, WE SHOULD TEAM UP TOGETHER TO TRY TO GET AN INCREASE ON THE PILOT PRESENTED FOR ALL THE COMMUNITIES.- BOB: I THINK IT IS HARD FOR PEOPLE TO SWALLOW LIFESPAN.

THEY HAVE MORE PUBLIC RELATIONS PEOPLE EARNING HIGH SALARIES.

YOU COULD ELIMINATE 50% OF THE MEN GIVE -- -- OF THEM AND GIVE.

I UNDERSTAND HEALTH CARE IS DIFFICULT.

BUT IT IS KIND OF A DISCONNECT.

>> I THINK THEY WILL.

I WATCHED AN INTERVIEW WITH THE NEW HEAD OF LIFESPAN LAST WEEK AND HE IS VERY MATTER-OF-FACT.

JIM: LET'’S GET TO OUTRAGES AND/OR KYRGIOS.

LISETTE LOOK, LET'’S BEGIN WITH YOU.

LISA: I WAS WATCHING THE PATRIOTS GAME LAST SUNAY AND MY HEART SANK.

TO LEARN THE BOSTON RED SOX CAME IN LAST.

THAT WAS MY INITIAL OUTRAGE.

I WANT O DO A KUDOS TO KEVIN MCCARTHY.

I WAS STUNNED HE PUT HIS SPEAKERSHIP ON THE LINE TO SAVE THE COUNTRY, THAT HE PUT COUNTRY BEFORE SELF, AND DID NOT SEEM TO BE THE KIND OF PERSON TO DO THAT.

YOU KNOW WHEN HE ENTERED CONGRESS ALL HE EVER WANTED TO DO WAS RACE TO THE SEAT OF POWER.

HE HAD TO KNOW IN THE BACK OF HIS HEAD BY DOING WHAT HE DID HE WOULD LOSE HIS SPEAKERSHIP.

JIM: HE SEEMED VERY COMFORTABLE IN THAT PRESS CONFERENCE AFTER.

LIKE THE BURDEN WAS LIFTED.

LISA: LIKE I CAN GO DOWN IN HISTORY BEING THE SPEAKER AND THEN HE WALKED AWAY.

STEVE: NODDED OUTRAGE, MORE OF A SAD REFLECTION DEALING WITH THE KEVIN MCCARTHY SITUATION.

KEVIN MCCARTHY LOST THE SPEAKERSHIP THIS WEEK.

REALLY THE BIG LOSER WAS BIPARTISANSHIP.

BECAUSE THE DEMOCRAT TEAMED UP WITH MATT GAETZ ON THIS INSTEAD JUST VOTING PRESENT, IT WILL BECOME ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO BIPARTISAN THINGS IN WASHINGTON.

IT WILL BECOME VERY DIFFICULT.

WHEN WE LOOK BACK AT THIS MOMENT HISTORICALLY IT WILL BE A MILESTONE ON THE ROAD OF HOW OUR GOVERNMENT NO LONGER CAN FUNCTION.

JIM: BOB, YOU GET THE LAST MINUTE.

BOB: STARTS WITH OUTRAGE AND ENDS WITH A KUDOS.

I WAS DISAPPOINTED TO SEE THE COVERAGE OF THE STORY ABOUT WASHINGTON TRUST AND REDLINING.

THEY MADE NO ADMISSION OF GUILT.

THEY DID AGREE TO A SETTLEMENT.

I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE THAT GENERAL TREASURER WAY IN ON THIS AND I THINK IT ENDS WITH A KUDOS.

BECAUSE I THINK IT WORKED OUT REALLY WELL.

THEY GOT WASHINGTON TRUST TO COME TO THE TABLE AND HAVE A REAL CONVERSATION.

I HAVE KNOWN NED HANDY WHO RUNS THAT INSTITUTION FOR YEARS.

I THINK THEY HAD A THOUGHTFUL DIALOGUE AND CAME UP WITH A THOUGHTFUL PLAN TO USE THE MONEY APPROPRIATELY TO REDRESS THE PROBLEMS THAT EXISTED WAS REDLINING AND LOANS.

I THINK WE WILL GET ROBUST EXTRA BANKING ASSETS IN URBAN CORE COMMUNITIES AND SEE MORTGAGES OUT THERE AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE REALLY NEED THEM AND EXTRA COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT.

THEY TOOK A BAD SITUATION, THERE WERE VERY OPEN ABOUT IT.

IT COULD HAVE SAID, WE ARE PAYING THE FINE AND MOVING ON.

INSTEAD THEY TALKED ABOUT IT AND CAME UP WITH A REALLY GOOD PLAN.

I LOVE TO SEE THAT LEVEL OF COOPERATION.

COMMENDATION HAD KUDOS TO ALL INVOLVED.

JIM: SPOKEN FROM A FORMER BANKER.

THAT'’S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

STEVE, BOB, LISA GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

FOLKS, COME BACK NEXT WEEKEND WE WILL HAVE ALL THE LATEST OF ELEMENTS AND A FULL ANALYSIS.

"A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

♪ >> I LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY.

>> FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD S