>> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

GABE AMO CRUISES TO VICTORY MAKING HISTORY ALONG THE WAY.

AND WE SPEAK WITH THE HEAD OF THE SPECIAL LEGISLATIVE COMMISSION JUST OUT WITH THE REPORT ON POTENTIAL CHANGES TO HOW RHODE ISLANDERS VOTE.

ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US THIS WEEK, JOE POWERS, CHAIRMAN OF THE RHODE ISLAND REPUBLICAN PARTY.

POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR ROB HOROWITZ AND STEPH MACHADO.

BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER AND CONTRIBUTOR TO RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY.

WELCOME TO WHAT TURNED OUT TO BE A VERY BUSY WEEK.

I AM JIM HUMMEL.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM.

BUT FIRST, DAVE, WON --GAVE ALMOST -- GABE AMO WILL BE SWORN IN SOON AS NEXT WEEK.

ELECTION WEEK SAW THOUSANDS OF VOTERS APPROVING NEARLY A BILLION DOLLARS OF BORROWING WITH A HEAVY CONCENTRATION ON SCHOOL IMPROVEMENT.

YOU WORK RIGHT IN THE THICK OF IT ON ELECTION NIGHT.

ANY SURPRISES?

>> IT WAS NOT A SURPRISE AMO WON THE GENERAL ELECTION.

IT PRETTY MUCH FELL WHERE WE SEE THEM FALLING IN STATEWIDE ELECTIONS.

HE GOT 65%.

LEONARD GOT 35%.

I THINK THE SURPRISE WAS THE PRIMARY AND PRETTY MUCH JUST HAD TO GET THROUGH THE GENERAL ELECTION IN SUCH A HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT.

JIM: YOU HAD A GOOD CANDIDATE BUT IT IS TOUGH WITH RESOURCES.

WHAT IS YOUR POSTMORTEM ON WHAT HAPPENED TUESDAY?

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

THE AREA IS DEFINITELY DEFINED FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

GARY WAS A VERY GOOD CANDIDATE.

I THINK HIM BEING A FIRST-TIME CANDIDATE, WE STILL BEING NEW TO WHAT I AM DOING AND TRYING TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT, FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT, I LOOK AT THE DATA AND INFORMATION.

I CAN SEE CERTAIN THINGS WE NEED TO IMPROVE UPON LIKE THE MESSAGING, GETTING OUT MORE INFORMATION, GETTING MORE VOLUNTEERS OUT JUST TO GET HIS NAME TO BE INCLUDED.

HIS RESUME SPEAKS FOR ITSELF PIT HE IS THE ULTIMATE LEADER, 30 YEARS IN THE MARINES DOES NOT HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT.

GABE AMO STEPPING IN AND HAVING THE DOOR OPENED UP FOR HIM BY SO MANY PEOPLE, GARY DID NOT HAVE THAT.

HE HAD TO CREATE A NAME FIRST AND THEN TRY TO GET HIS MESSAGE OUT AFTER.

>> I THINK THE RESULTS WERE PREDICTABLE.

THE PROBLEM REPUBLICANS FACE IN RHODE ISLAND IN CONGRESSIONAL AND SENATE AND NATIONAL RACES IS THESE HAVE ALL BECOME NATIONALIZED.

PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING A TEAM AS MUCH AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

I THOUGHT GARY LEONARD WAS A GREAT CANDIDATE AND WILL BE A VERY GOOD REPUBLICAN STATEWIDE CANDIDATE SOMEDAY IN GOVERNOR'’S RACES AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNORS AND TREASURERS RACES THAT YOU CAN STILL WIN AS A REPUBLICAN.

UNTIL THE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN PARTY CHANGES FUNDAMENTALLY, ITS BRAND IS FAIRLY TOXIC.

THAT IS HOW THESE RACES ARE VIEWED BY VOTERS.

THEY ARE NOT LOOKING AS MUCH AT THE INDIVIDUAL CANDIDATES AND SAYING WE ARE GOING TO SEND A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN TO CONGRESS.

JIM: YOU HAVE LIVED HERE ALL OF YOUR LIFE.

THEY RULED THE STATE FOR 16 YEARS, IN THE GOVERNOR'’S OFFICE.

JEFF KLEIN WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL ALL THOSE YEARS AGO.

THAT WAS A DIFFERENT REPUBLICAN PARTY THEN.

IT IS NOT LIKE REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN THE PAST.

WHAT DO YOU DO AS WE LOOK TO THE 2024 ELECTION CYCLE?

GREAT QUESTION.

JIM: THAT IS MY JOB.

[LAUGHTER] >> SUCCESS LEAVES CLUES.

I FIRMLY BELIEVE IN THAT.

IN MY RESEARCH WITH MY TEAM, WE LOOK AT WHAT IT IS THEY DID TO TRY TO REPEAT WHAT THEY DID.

THERE IS A FAILSAFE IN BUSINESS.

IF YOU DO WHAT THE SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE DO, CHANCES ARE YOU WILL GET THE SAME RESULTS IF NOT BETTER.

THAT IS WHAT WE PLAN ON DOING, GOING BACK TO TAKE A LOOK.

MY JOB IS TO PUT A TEAM TOGETHER WHERE WE CAN INSULATE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN RHODE ISLAND.

WE CANNOT DO IT COMPLETELY BUT THAT FALLS ON MY SHOULDERS TO MAKE SURE I CAN WARD OFF ALL OF THE NATIONAL STUFF TO MAKE SURE WE FOCUS ON RHODE ISLAND.

>> THAT IS EASIER TO DO ON STATE RACES.

TAKING ADVICE FROM A DEMOCRAT, GREAT IDEA.

TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT PHIL SCOTT AND CHARLIE BAKER DID.

YOU'’RE SEEING REPUBLICANS FOR GOVERNOR JUST LIKE IN KENTUCKY, A DEMOCRAT GETTING REELECTED.

WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT STATE ISSUES AND ARE THE ROADS GOING TO BE UPGRADED AND THE TAX LEVEL, THOSE ARE ALMOST BY DEFINITION -- >> IT IS MORE AMORPHOUS WITH CONGRESS BECAUSE IT AUTOMATICALLY REVERTS TO THE NATIONAL PARTY.

JIM: YOU AND I DID THE PODCAST THE DAY AFTER.

A LITTLE BIT OF INTRIGUE WITH THE BOND ISSUES.

IT SHOWED VOTERS ARE PAYING ATTENTION.

>> I WAS ASSIGNED TO WRITE THE STORY.

JIM: HOW EXCITING WAS THAT?

>> I REWROTE IT AND HAD TO CHANGE THE WHOLE THING.

JIM: IT WAS NOT WHAT YOU EXPECTED?

>> THE SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION BONDS ALMOST ALWAYS PASS.

THEY WERE REALLY MOTIVATED VOTERS IN NORTH KINGSTOWN WHO VOTED DOWN A $222 MILLION BOND TO BUILD A NEW SCHOOL AND POLICE STATIONS.

I THINK PEOPLE WERE UPSET THEY HAD TO VOTE FOR BOTH OR NEITHER AND THEN THEY HAD A SECOND BOND FOR A REC CENTER WITH PICKLEBALL COURTS THAT FAILED.

THEY VOTED DOWN A BOND TO BUILD A POLICE STATION.

I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING THAT VOTERS CAME OUT IN SUCH HIGH TURNOUT TO VOTE FOR THE BOND.

NORTH KINGSTOWN IS NOT EVEN IN THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

THEY WERE ALL THERE TO VOTE FOR THE BONDS.

HIGHER TURNOUT IN PROVIDENCE.

IT IS ENCOURAGING VOTERS ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE LOCAL ISSUES ON THEIR BALLOT IN WEIGHING IN AND IT IS NOT JUST A RUBBERSTAMP.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> IT IS A CANARY IN THE COAL MINE OR IS IT EVEN THOUGH THE KINGSTOWN TURNOUT WAS HIGH, SO WHAT YOU REALLY HAD WAS PEOPLE WHO GET MOTIVATED ON BOND ISSUES ARE THE ONES THAT VOTE NO AND ARE CONCERNED ABOUT TAXES.

IN THE USUAL TURNOUT HERE, EVEN IN NORTH KINGSTOWN AND NORTH SMITHFIELD, THOSE WOULD HAVE PASSED.

IT'’S IS THE MESSAGE PEOPLE MAY BE FEELING FINANCIALLY SQUEEZED -- IT SENDS THE MESSAGE PEOPLE MAYBE FEELING FINANCIALLY SQUEEZED BECAUSE OF INFLATION.

SOMETHING TO WATCH FOR IT IT IS HARD TO READ A LOT INTO IT BUT IT WAS INTERESTING.

>> IT IS A LOT OF MONEY.

I THINK WHERE THE RUBBER WILL HIT THE ROAD IS, IS WHAT YOU SELL WHAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DELIVER BECAUSE OF HIGH INTEREST RATES?

CONSTRUCTION COSTS ARE NOT GOING TO GO DOWN.

WHEN THE SHUTTLE HITS THE DIRT LITERALLY, ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE TO MODIFY PLANS?

I THINK THEY ALL NEED HELP BUT IT IS A LOT OF BORROWING.

>> IN THE WORLD OF CONSTRUCTION, THERE IS AN OLD JOKE THAT THE CONTRACTOR BUYS A DINGHY BASED ON THE ORIGINAL BID AND THEN HE BUYS A YACHT.

YOU GIVE AN ORIGINAL BID TO DO SOMETHING AND THEN THERE ARE THINGS ADDED ON.

THE NUMBERS ARE NEVER WHERE THEY ARE BECAUSE PEOPLE DID NOT HANDLE BUDGETS PROPERLY.

IN NORTH KINGSTOWN, THEY HAD SUCH A HUGE TURNOUT WITH A HAVING -- WITHOUT HAVING OTHER ELECTIONS GOING ON BECAUSE OF THE MESSAGING.

THERE WERE SIGNS EVERYWHERE.

THEY DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD.

NOT TO SAY OTHER TOWNS DID NOT, BUT THEY GOT THE MESSAGE OUT AND TOLD PEOPLE THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON.

I THINK IT GOES BACK TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE ECONOMY AND BIDENOMICS.

EVERYTHING IS SO MUCH HIGHER.

>> THE MESSAGING WAS MEGA BOND.

IT MADE IT TO LIKE IT WOULD TAKE OVER.

>> LIKE EXTREME MAGA.

>> MAYBE PEOPLE WERE CONFUSED.

>> BARRINGTON 250.

THERE WAS SOME GOOD MESSAGING.

JIM: THAT HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT ELECTIONS OVER THE YEARS AND HOW WE VOTE.

GOING BACK TO LINK CHAFEE AS GOVERNOR AND JEAN RAMONDA'’S FIRST RACE FOR GOVERNOR, SHE GOT LESS THAN 50% OF THE VOTE.

WE LIVE IN A PLURALITY VOTING STATE.

I SAT DOWN WITH SAM, THE HEAD OF A COMMISSION LOOKING AT ALTERNATE CHOICES FOR VOTING.

WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT MORE OF THIS.

HERE IS PART OF MY INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR ZURIER ABOUT THE COMMISSION.

>> I HAD A MAYOR IN PROVIDENCE WHO ALWAYS SUCCEEDED IN THREE WAY ELECTIONS.

JIM: WITH 40% OF THE VOTE.

>> EXACTLY.

IT NEVER REFLECTED THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY.

AS A VOTER, I WOULD BE PERSONALLY WILLING TO LEARN A NEW SYSTEM TO DEAL WITH THE THREE CANDIDATE PROBLEM.

I HOPE IS WE DO FIND SOMETHING BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY BECAUSE WITH THE THREE-WAY RACES AND THE MULTICANDIDATE RACES WHERE YOU HAVE A FRINGE CANDIDATE GETS ELECTED, THIS IS NOT THE WAY WE WERE TAUGHT DEMOCRACY WORKS IN GRADE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL.

WHEN I ENTERED THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, I INTRODUCED A RANKED-CHOICE BILL AND STUDY COMMISSIONED.

IT WAS CLEAR THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF WORK NEEDED BEFORE WE COULD PASS LEGISLATION.

THANKFULLY, LEADERSHIP AGREED TO A STUDY COMMISSIONED.

JIM: YOU SAID RIGHT OFF THE TOP WE WANT TO TRY TO INCREASE VOTER TURNOUT IN PRIMARIES.

>> PRIMARIES ARE A PROBLEM.

RIGHT NOW IN DISTRICTS WHICH ARE HEAVILY WEIGHTED TOWARD ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER, THE PRIMARY DECIDES WHO WILL BE ELECTED.

JIM: WHAT STOOD OUT TO YOU WHEN COMMISSIONERS WERE HAVING DIALOGUE BACK AND FORTH?

>> THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WHICH OF THE ALTERNATIVES MADE THE MOST SENSE TO THEM.

MY FELLOW ELECTED OFFICIALS WERE TALKING ABOUT LARGELY POLICY ISSUES.

THE OTHERS WERE ELECTION OFFICIALS TALKING ABOUT HOW TO IMPLEMENT IT.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WHICH SYSTEMS WOULD BE EASIEST TO ADMINISTER.

MY HOPE IS TO INTRODUCE LEGISLATION TO REPEAL THE SECTION OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT LIMITS US TO PLURALITY VOTING AND STATEWIDE GENERAL ELECTIONS.

JIM: MY FULL CONVERSATION WITH THE SENATOR IS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW ON RHODE ISLAND PBS'’ YOUTUBE PAGE.

DO ANY OF THESE ALTERNATIVES APPEAL TO YOU THROUGH THE REPUBLICAN LENS?

>> IN A STATE WHERE IT IS CHALLENGING FOR A REPUBLICAN TO WIN PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING, ALTHOUGH NOT IMPOSSIBLE, THERE HAS BEEN A ONE PARTY RUN FOR THE LAST 80 OR 90 YEARS.

A RANKED-CHOICE VOTING OPTION WOULD COMPLETELY DO AWAY WITH ANY OPPORTUNITIES AS FAR AS A DUAL PARTY SYSTEM AND WOULD END UP NOT ONLY BEING CONFUSING, IT WOULD BE DISRUPTIVE AS POLICYMAKING.

IT WILL FALL ON ONE PARTY AND TRY TO PUT EVERYBODY IN ONE PARTY LINE TO FOLLOW ALONG.

I THINK PERSONALLY THERE SHOULD BE TWO OR THREE PARTIES.

I THINK IT IS A BROADER ISSUE.

IT IS SO POLARIZING WHEN IT COMES TO POLITICS.

PEOPLE TALK ABOUT BEING A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN AS OPPOSED TO BEING A HUMAN BEING FIRST AND FOREMOST.

JIM: DO YOU THINK LOCAL RACES SHOULD BE NONPARTISAN?

>> I DO.

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN IS THE FOCUS HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF THE WRONG THINGS.

IT HAS BEEN PUT ON WHO IS GOING TO GAIN THE POWER AND OBTAIN THE POWER AND RUN IT, AS COMPARED TO ITS FOCUS ON THE SCHOOLS, THE CHILDREN, JOBS, THE ECONOMY.

I THINK THERE DEFINITELY SHOULD BE AN OPTION.

>> FULL DISCLOSURE, SENATOR ZURIER IS A POLITICAL CLIENT OF MINE.

READING THE REPORT AND LISTENING TO SAM, IT REMINDS ME OF THE WINSTON CHURCHILL QUOTE ABOUT DEMOCRACY IS THE WORST FORM OF GOVERNMENT EXCEPT FOR ALL THE OTHER.

READING BETWEEN THE LINES IS PROBABLY NOT A CONSENSUS FOR ANYONE.

I AM ATTRACTED TO RANKED-CHOICE VOTING.

BUT IN PRIMARIES BECAUSE IT LIMITS THE NEGATIVE BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GET THE SECOND AND THIRD CHOICES.

YOU HAVE TO APPEAL TO A BROADER CROSS-SECTION OF VOTERS.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS IN REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES.

MAYBE WE WOULD NOT HAVE SPEAKERS LIKE MICHAEL JOHNSON.

THAT IS A SECTOR -- SEPARATE POINT.

READING THE REPORT, IT WAS NOT CLEAR THERE WAS A COMPELLING REASON TO PICK ANY OF THESE OVER THE EXISTING WE HAVE.

>> IT IS INTERESTING TO TALK TO SENATOR ZURIER ABOUT THIS BECAUSE HE WAS ELECTED WITH A PLURALITY IN A FOUR-WAY PRIMARY ORIGINALLY FOR HIS ESTATE SENATE SEAT.

JIM: HE DID NOT LIKE THAT.

>> HE WAS WELL AWARE IT WAS NOT A MANDATE AND THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS PICKED ONE OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES.

WHEN I READ THE REPORT, IT SEEMED LIKE THE REPORT WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE ME WHAT WAS ALL FOUR OF THE OPTIONS.

I THINK IT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

WE TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE CD1 RACE THIS YEAR AND IN FALL RIVER WHEN THE FORMER MAYOR WAS RECALLED BY A MAJORITY OF VOTERS AND THEN REELECTED BY A PLURALITY OF VOTERS.

MORE VOTERS WANTED HIM OUT OF OFFICE BUT HE GOT TO STAY IN.

I'’M CURIOUS WHAT THE COMMISSION WILL END UP RECOMMENDING.

I ALSO THINK THE POLITICAL WILL AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO PASS ONE OF THESE OPTIONS ANY TIME IN THE NEAR FUTURE JUST SEEMS LIKE A MOMENTOUS EFFORT AND SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION AND DO ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.

JIM: HE SAID THERE IS A QUESTION, STATE, FEDERAL, CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES, A LOT OF EDUCATION.

MAYOR ADAMS IN NEW YORK, THAT WAS A RANKED-CHOICE VOTING.

IT TOOK 10 DAYS OR A WEEK.

PEOPLE WERE BEGINNING TO THINK, WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS ELECTION?

>> BY DEFINITION, THE PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE GOT ELECTED IN THE EXISTING SYSTEM.

THEY WILL BANG THE TIRES BEFORE THEY THROW THAT OUT.

>> IT IS USEFUL TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON IN MAINE AND ALASKA BECAUSE THEY HAVE HAD ALL KINDS OF COURT CHALLENGES TO THEIR SYSTEMS.

THAT WILL BE USEFUL IF RHODE ISLAND MOVES FORWARD WITH ANY OF THESE TO SEE WHERE THE COURTS SHAKE OUT ON THIS.

JIM: FINAL THOUGHT?

>> I AGREE.

I DON'’T THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL WORK OUT.

IT IS HARD ENOUGH TO GET PEOPLE TO THE POLLS THE FIRST TIME.

TO HAVE THEM KEEP COMING BACK AND DOING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS GOING TO BE EVEN WORSE.

THE WHOLE DEMOCRACY THING IS ONE STEP AWAY FROM SOCIALISM WHICH IS WHY I LOVE BEING IN A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC WHERE YOU CAN FIND THE RIGHT PERSON TO SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY AS COMPARED TO EVERYBODY SPEAKING AT ONCE.

HAVE THAT CONVERSATION OFF CAMERA LATER.

>> I CAN SEE THE 30-SECOND AD.

HE SAYS DEMOCRACY IS ONE STEP AWAY FROM SOCIALISM.

JUST TEASING.

JIM: LATE IN THE WEEK, BIG NEWS FROM THE BLACKSTONE VALLEY.

LONGTIME WOONSOCKET MAYOR LISA BALDELLI-HUNT STEPPED DOWN ABRUPTLY.

A NEW MAYOR WILL BE SWORN IN BY THE END OF THE DAY.

>> KUDOS TO MY FORMER COLLEAGUE WHO PUBLISHED THE INVESTIGATION ABOUT THE QUESTIONABLE LAND DEAL THAT WAS GOING TO BE INVESTIGATED BY THE CITY COUNCIL BEFORE SHE RESIGNED.

SHE SAYS SHE IS RESIGNING FOR HEALTH REASONS.

SHE HAS BEEN A VERY CONTROVERSIAL FIGURE FOR YEARS.

SHE WAS REMOVED FROM OFFICE LAST YEAR AND THEN GOT BACK IN.

WAS TOTALLY SHOCKED -- I WAS TOTALLY SHOCKED YESTERDAY WHEN IT HAPPENED.

JIM: THAT IT HAPPENED OR HOW IT UNFOLDED?

>> HOW IT UNFOLDED AND ON THAT DAY BECAUSE SHE HAS PREVIOUSLY FOUGHT TO STAY IN HER POSITION.

I ASSUMED WE WOULD SEE THE SAME THING THIS TIME AROUND WITH WHATEVER THE CITY COUNCIL WAS GOING TO TURN UP IN THE INVESTIGATION.

>> MAYOR BALDELLI-HUNT TAKES NO PRISONERS.

SHE HAS DONE AN EFFECTIVE JOB.

GOING AFTER HER AND NOT HAVING A REPLACEMENT SHOWS HOW MUCH THEY HATE HER BECAUSE THEY HAD NO PLAN.

IF SHE GOT OUT, IT SAYS TO ME THAT THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM SHE HAS.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO DRAG HER OUT OF THERE.

JIM: I WILL GIVE HER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

SHE SAID IT IS FOR HEALTH ISSUES.

SOME OF US ARE SKEPTICAL.

SHE SAID THAT IS WHY SHE WAS LEAVING.

WHAT DID YOU THINK?

>> AT FIRST, I DID NOT REALIZE EMBARRASSMENT OR GUILT WAS A MEDICAL ISSUE.

IF THAT WERE TRUE, HALF OF THE POLITICIANS IN THE UNITED STATES WOULD BE GOING OUT ON MEDICAL LEAVE.

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO TRUST IN THE MAYOR THEY HAD.

SOME PEOPLE LET IT GO.

OTHERS FOCUSED ON IT.

ANOTHER MAYOR WAS SWORN IN THAT AFTERNOON WHICH MEANS THEY HAD STUFF READY AND THEY WERE WAITING FOR HER TO STEP OUT.

JIM: IT REMINDS ME OF THE 85-YEAR-OLD U.S.

SENATOR ON THE VERGE OF INVESTIGATION OR INDICTMENT AND SAYS I WANT TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH MY FAMILY.

I'’M NOT SURE YOUR FAMILY WAS TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH YOU.

WHAT I AM HEARING FROM MY SOURCES IS SHE HAD A TIGHT BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO ALWAYS SUPPORTED HER.

SHE GOT VOTED OUT OF THE PREVIOUS COUNCIL AND THEN GOT BACK IN.

THIS LAND DEAL WAS A STEP TOO FAR I THINK.

I THINK SHE SAW THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

IT MAKES SENSE.

WE ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO >> WOONSOCKET AS CLOSELY AS HE IS, BUT THAT POLITICAL ALLIANCE WAS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE HERE FOR HER.

>> WE DON'’T WANT TO SUGGEST SHE DOES NOT HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS.

WE KNOW SHE COLLAPSED AT A PRESS CONFERENCE.

WE HOPE SHE RECOVERS AND IS DOING WELL.

BUT YES, I THINK THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL A LITTLE BIT IN HINDSIGHT.

JIM: FINALLY, DAVID CICILLINE, THE WHOLE REASON GABE AMO GOT ELECTED IS BECAUSE DAVID CICILLINE LEFT FOR A PRICEY, WELL COMPENSATED JOB WITH THE FOUNDATION.

HE FOUND HIMSELF IN A CONTROVERSY THIS WEEK BECAUSE HE WAS SUPPOSED TO HEADLINE A DEMOCRATIC FUNDRAISER AT THE END OF THE WEEK.

CLEARLY, THAT IS SOMETHING THE RHODE ISLAND FOUNDATION BOARD WAS NOT PLEASED ABOUT.

THAT GOT CANCELED.

I'’M SURPRISED HE HAD A BIT OF A TIN EAR TO THIS.

>> I'’M NOT.

IT IS GOOD TO SEE EVEN THOUGH HE ABANDONED THE SEAT IN RHODE ISLAND HE DID NOT ABANDON THE PARTY.

THIS SHOULD BE A NONPARTISAN TYPE OF THING WHERE HE IS STEPPING ASIDE WORKING FOR THE NONPROFIT, AND THEN TURNING AROUND AND TRYING TO USE HIS WEIGHT TO GO ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE TO RAISE MONEY, I SAID SOMETHING ON TWITTER.

I PUT OUT A RELEASE IN REGARDS TO IT BECAUSE WE ALL FELT HE DID NOT PASS THE SMELL TEST.

APPARENTLY, WE WERE RIGHT BECAUSE HE WITHDREW OR THEY TURNED IT DOWN AND ARE REFUNDING MONEY.

I AM SHOCKED.

HE IS NOT A DUMMY.

HE HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

I'’M CURIOUS WHY THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD SLIDE THAT IN AND LET IT HAPPEN.

>> DAVID CICILLINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PARTICULARLY POLITICAL POLITICIAN.

WHEN HE GOT THE JOB AT THE RHODE ISLAND FOUNDATION, HE APPARENTLY AGREED TO BE NONPARTISAN AND NOT PARTICIPATE IN POLITICAL ACTIVITIES.

THEY KNEW THEY WERE HIRING, OF COURSE.

IT WAS PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO CANCEL THE FUNDRAISER.

>> HE MADE A MISTAKE.

YOU ARE RIGHT.

DAVID, THE FORMER CONGRESSMAN, IS VERY SMART, AND SERVED THE STATE ADMIRABLY IN A NUMBER OF ROLES AS MAYOR AND CONGRESSMAN AND EMERGED AS A NATIONAL LEADER.

HE IS VERY SMART.

HE'’S GOING TO DO A GREAT JOB AT THE RHODE ISLAND FOUNDATION.

IT WAS CLEARLY A MISTAKE.

IT IS A SMALL MISTAKE.

IT IS NOW FIXED.

THE TEST GOING FORWARD IS THERE WILL BE MORE SCRUTINY SO HE WILL HAVE TO STATE WITHIN THE GUIDELINES.

I'’M CONFIDENT HE WILL.

JIM: I WONDER IF THERE WILL BE A RIPPLE EFFECT.

THERE WAS ALWAYS A CONCERN IF POLITICS WOULD BLEED INTO HIS POSITION.

MAYBE ROB IS RIGHT.

IT WILL BE IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR.

BUT DECISIONS HE MAKES ABOUT WHERE GRANTS GO AND THAT TYPE OF THING, PEOPLE WILL GO HE STILL HAS HIS POLITICAL LENS ON.

>> YOU PUT IT ON YOURSELF.

YOU TURNED YOUR OWN SPOTLIGHT ON.

PEOPLE WILL START PAYING ATTENTION AND SCRUTINIZING ALL THESE DECISIONS MOVING FORWARD.

I DON'’T REALLY QUALIFY IT AS A MISTAKE AS MUCH.

WE ALL AGREE HE IS NOT A DUMMY.

HE HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

HE IS A VERY POLITICAL POLITICIAN.

HE KNOWS THE STEPS.

HE IS METICULOUS.

CALLING THIS A MISTAKE IS A MISNOMER.

JIM: I HAVE TO HOLD IT FOR YOU.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT AT RHODE ISLAND PBS.

NORMALLY, WE TALK ABOUT THE NEWS.

TODAY, WE ARE THE NEWS.

TELEVISION STATION PLANS TO MERGE WITH THE PUBLIC'’S RADIO.

COMING UP, OF RHODE ISLAND PBS AND TOREY MALATIA OF THE PUBLIC'’S RADIO WILL JOIN ME WITH DETAILS ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT FROM THIS ALLIANCE.

JIM: WE ARE BACK WITH DAVID AND TOREY.

NICE TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

IT IS A HARBINGER OF THINGS TO COME.

DAVID, YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS GOING BACK 10 YEARS AND IT NEVER GOT DONE.

WHY AN ALLIANCE NOW BETWEEN RADIO AND TELEVISION?

>> OUR DIRECTORS, THE CHAIRS OF OUR BOARD GOT TOGETHER LAST FALL AND MADE GREAT CONVERSATION AND MADE IT HAPPEN.

THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU THINK FROM YOUR END?

>> I AM DELIGHTED IT WENT SOMEWHERE.

IT IS TRUE THERE HAVE BEEN CONVERSATIONS HERE AND THERE.

THIS WAS A VERY FOCUSED, VERY DETAILED AND THOROUGH CONVERSATION OVER A YEAR.

IT INVOLVED A FACILITATOR.

A LOT OF BOARD MEMBERS FROM BOTH SIDES.

I THINK AT THE END, WE ARE VERY PLEASED WITH WHAT WE HAVE COME UP WITH.

I THINK THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO BENEFIT IMMENSELY.

JIM: FROM A REPORTER'’S STANDPOINT, YOU CAP IT SECRET.

I HAD NOT HEARD ANYTHING UNTIL THURSDAY AFTERNOON.

PRETTY GOOD JOB DOING THAT.

>> IT WAS AMAZING.

>> YOU WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE LEAKED OUT AT SOME POINT.

>> THERE WERE A FEW WEEKS INTERNALLY.

I THINK I PUT THE FEAR IN THOSE PEOPLE THAT WERE IN THE NOTE TO -- IN THE KNOW TO BUTTON IT.

JIM: THERE ARE A LOT OF DETAILS LEADING UP TO THE ANNOUNCEMENT.

THIS WILL GO INTO THE FIRST QUARTER PROBABLY?

>> WE ARE HOPEFUL WE WILL BE ABLE TO CLOSE THE TRANSACTION IN MARCH OR APRIL.

JIM: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL INVOLVED BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO NONPROFITS.

DO YOU ANTICIPATE ANY SPEEDBUMPS?

>> HARD TO SAY.

JIM: WHAT DOES IT DUE FROM A PROGRAMMING STANDPOINT HAVING TELEVISION AND RADIO?

THIS IS A MODEL BEING DONE OTHER PLACES.

>> YES, INDEED.

IT IS ABOUT JOURNALISM FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE.

>> WHERE THAT GOES, TELEVISION, RADIO, DIGITAL, IN-PERSON, FORUMS, MEETINGS, CONVENINGS, IT IS ALL A WAY OF FINDING A DEEPER REACH INTO OUR COMMUNITY.

TO DO THAT, YOU NEED MUSCLE.

YOU NEED SCALE.

YOU NEED A LOT OF VERY TALENTED PEOPLE.

WE HAVE A VERY TALENTED STAFF.

BUT SO DOES RHODE ISLAND PBS.

THE NOTION OF BEING ABLE TO WORK WITH THOSE CREATIVE PEOPLE TOGETHER TO ENHANCE THE AMOUNT OF JOURNALISM AND THE KIND OF JOURNALISM WE CAN GIVE TO THIS COMMUNITY IS GREAT.

IT HAS BEEN THE NEWS WE HAVE BEEN HOPING FOR FOR A LONG TIME.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU SEE IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO HARNESS WHAT THE PUBLIC'’S RADIO DOES?

>> JUST A WAY TO DISTRIBUTE CONTENT ON MULTI-PLATFORMS WHERE OUR AUDIENCES ARE AND WHEN THEY WANT TO HAVE IT.

BEING MORE ACCESSIBLE WITH ALL OF OUR MESSAGING AND ALL OF OUR CONTENT WE HAVE FOR THE COMMUNITY.

JIM: THOSE OF OUR AGE AND GENERATION, WE ARE DOING STUFF NOW WE DID NOT EVEN KNOW WOULD EXIST.

THE INTERNET, DIGITAL PLATFORMS, AND ALL OF THAT.

I KNOW PBS HAS INVESTED A LOT IN NEW PROGRAMMING GOING TOWARD DIGITAL.

TALK ABOUT WHERE YOU SEE THAT GOING IN THE NEXT MONTHS AND YEARS.

>> I THINK IT IS PROBABLY MORE YEARS THAN MONTHS.

WE ARE AT CAPACITY FOR CONTENT CREATION.

AS WE COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION AND GO THROUGH A STRATEGIC PLANNING PROCESS, WE WILL COME UP WITH A NEW DIRECTION FOR THE COMBINED ORGANIZATION.

THAT WILL DICTATE WHAT KIND OF CONTENT GETS CREATED.

JIM: DID YOU LOOK AT OTHER MODELS?

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO 50 MILES UP THE ROAD.

WGBH DOES IT WITH TV AND RADIO.

IS IT THAT YOU CANNOT REINVENT THE WHEEL OR ARE THERE OTHER PLACES WHERE IT IS WORKING WHERE YOU SAID WE CAN BORROW FROM THEIR MODEL?

>> I THINK WE LOOKED EVERYWHERE.

YOU ARE RIGHT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF COMBINED INSTITUTIONS, JOINT LICENSEES THEY ARE CALLED, TELEVISION, RADIO, ETC., WHERE THERE IS ONE UMBRELLA INSTITUTION THAT RUNS IT AND SO ON.

I THINK WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THAT WE HAVE BOTH HAD TIME AS INSTITUTIONS TO FORM OUR CHARACTER BY THE WORK WE HAVE DONE.

AND NOW, COMING TOGETHER IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY SEE WHAT KIND OF ELECTRICITY COMES FROM THAT, AS OPPOSED TO JUST THE ROOF OVER BOTH SIDES.

THAT I THINK IS WHERE WE WILL EXTEND PUBLIC SERVICE IN WAYS THAT EVERY SINGLE VIEWER, LISTENER, INTERNET USER, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO USE OUR CONTENT WILL SEE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

JIM: LAST 30 SECONDS, WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE SAME FOR VIEWERS AND LISTENERS AND WHAT WILL BE DIFFERENT >> EVERYTHING IS GOING TO STAY THE SAME IN THE NEAR TERM.

LONG-TERM, THERE WILL BE MORE OF THE GREAT STUFF WE PRODUCE NOW.

JIM: THAT IS GREAT.

CONGRATULATIONS TO BOTH OF YOU.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR LOYALTY TO THIS SHOW.

IF YOU DON'’T CATCH US FRIDAY AT 7:00 AND SUNDAY AT NOON, YOU CAN CATCH US ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA.

FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

WE ARCHIVE ALL OF OUR SHOWS.

YOU CAN LEARN A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS MERGER ON OUR WEBSITE.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND COME BACK NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS ON THE PUT GO ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS