>> THIS WEEK, INCREASING CALLS FOR THE GOVERNOR TO REIMPOSE AN INDOOR MASK MANDY.

WE WILL TELL YOU WHO IS CALLING FOR IT.

RHODE ISLAND MOVES ONE STEP CLOSER TO OPENING UP THE FEDERAL COVID MONEY BANK ACCOUNT.

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I'M JOHN.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS ON CLINICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM, RHODE ISLAND PBS.

♪ >> JOINING US ON THIS WEEK'S PANEL, AMANDA.

POLITICAL STRATEGIST, ROB HORWITZ.

AND DAN RILEY.

WELCOME.

I AM JIM.

WITH COVID NUMBERS ON THE RISE AND A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN HOSPITALIZATIONS, SHOULD RHODE ISLANDERS GO BACK TO WEARING MASKS INSIDE?

GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS RESISTED A MANDATE.

WITH CALLS FROM HEALTH OFFICIALS , SPECIFICALLY LIFESPAN ON THURSDAY, TO GO BACK TO MASKING, THE OUTCOME MAY BE INEVITABLE.

OR, IT MIGHT NOT BE INEVITABLE.

MCKEE HAS BEEN RESISTANT TO THIS.

I UNDERSTAND WHY.

YOU ALMOST GET THE FEELING, LIKE LAST YEAR, THEY HAD TO DO SOMETHING.

WE ARE IN A MUCH DIFFERENT PLACE.

DAN: I THINK WE ARE IN A MUCH DIFFERENT PLACE.

GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS BEEN CONSISTENT ON THIS.

FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY STANDPOINT, STARTING FROM HIS TIME AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, HE WAS NOT A FAN OF MANDATES WHEN A HAPPEN.

HE WAS QUICK TO BE PROMOTING SMALL BUSINESSES AND GETTING RELIEF.

I'M NOT SURPRISED HE HAS TAKEN THIS STANCE.

HE IS GETTING PRESSURE FROM PRIMARY OPPONENTS.

WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THE BUSINESS COMMITTEE, THEY HAVE A POINT WHEN YOU SAY IT IS EASIER FOR US TO ENCOURAGE MASK WEARING WHEN IT IS NOT A MANDATE FROM THE STATE.

WE HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS NOW.

WE ARE OVER 18 MONTHS AND WE ARE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE THE COMBINATION OF COVID EXHAUSTION AND PEOPLE HAVE AN OPINION -- PEOPLE HAVING AN OPINION OF MANDATES AND WANTING TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY WHEN THEY ARE MANDATED TO DO SO, I THINK THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THAT IS APPARENT.

BUSINESS OWNERS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO ENFORCE THEM.

THEY SHOULD BE LISTENED TO.

I THINK YOU ARE STARTING TO SEE THAT IN PLACES WITHOUT A MASK MANDY.

I'M SEEING MORE BUSINESSES WITH SIGNS THAT SAY WE ASK THAT YOU WEAR A MASK.

AND WE HAVE A MANDATE.

THEY ARE STARTING TO EXPLAIN WHY.

WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VACCINATED.

WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE AN EXTRA PRECAUTION.

INSTEAD OF SAYING PER GOVERNMENT GUIDELINES, THEY ARE EXPLAINING WHY THEY ARE DOING AND PEOPLE SEEM TO BE HAVING A MORE POSITIVE RESPONSE.

>> IT IS INTERESTING.

ALMOST EVERY BUSINESS I GO INTO, ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES WEAR IT.

I THINK THAT IS A SMART BUSINESS MOVE TO MAKE EVERYBODY FEEL COMFORTABLE.

YOU GO TO THE GROCERY STORE AND THE RESTAURANT, THEY ARE ALL MASK UP.

AMANDA: I WAS AT THE PROVIDENCE COLLEGE-URI GAME.

IT WAS AMAZING TO BE BACK AND WATCHING THEM PLAY.

THE LAST TIME I SAW THEM WAS JUST BEFORE COVID.

IT HAD THE SAME FEEL AND ENERGY.

THE KIDS WERE CHEERING AND THE PEP BAND WAS GOING.

PROVIDENCE COLLEGE WON.

THERE WERE SIGNS SAYING WE ENCOURAGE MASK WEARING.

MOST OF THE PEOPLE THERE WERE NOT WEARING MASKS.

I WORE ONE MOST OF THE TIME.

AFTER A WHILE, I THOUGHT WHAT IS THE POINT?

I'M SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WEARING MASKS.

I DON'T KNOW THEIR VACCINATION STATUS.

I KNOW THE STUDENTS ARE VACCINATED.

I KNOW THE PLAYERS ARE VACCINATED.

AND I KNOW I AM BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW EVERYBODY ELSE IS.

>> DID IT MAKE YOU FEEL UNEASY?

AMANDA: IT DID.

I AM SO SICK OF THIS PANDEMIC.

I AM JUST DONE.

LET'S MOVE ON, ALREADY.

IT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC IS NOT DONE WITH US.

I'M LOOKING UP AT THE HOSPITAL AND MEDICAL COMMUNITY ARE SAYING AND THEY ARE UNEQUIVOCAL ABOUT IT.

WE NEED A MASK MANDATE.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS COMING FROM, SAYING THIS IS DISCOURAGING AND IT IS HARD TO BE AN EMPLOYEE OF A CUSTOMER, COMING IN.

PLEASE, WEAR A MASK.

WE ARE IN A TOUGH SPOT.

>> CERTAINLY NOBODY WANTS IT.

MANDATES, THEY DO WORK.

IT IS HOW VACCINATIONS OCCUR AND MASK MANDATES WORK.

THEY ARE SAYING WE ARE AT 30%.

HOSPITALIZATION HAS DOUBLED OVER THE PAST MONTH.

CASES HAVE MORE THAN TRIPLED.

WE HAVE OMICRON, COMING ON BOARD.

I THINK A SHORT-TERM MASK MANDATE IS INDOORS, THAT IS A WISE MOVE.

AND, THEY ARE EFFECTIVE.

YOU WILL GET SOME OPPOSITION.

BUT, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WEARING MASKS IS GOING TO GO UP.

JIM: I DON'T THINK IT IS A BIG DEAL.

WHEN I GO TO THE GROCERY STORE, I DO IT TO PUT OTHER PEOPLE AT EASE.

I'M NOT WORRIED.

MAYBE I SHOULD BE.

YOU SEE MARK AT THE JOURNAL, THESE PEOPLE ARE VACCINATED, BOOSTED AND THERE ARE BREAKTHROUGH CASES.

THAT IS THE WILDCARD.

I ALSO WONDER WHETHER IT WOULD HELP THE HEALTH APARTMENT IF THERE WERE SOME METRICS.

NOT JUST -- REMEMBER THE GOVERNOR DID THE PAUSE LAST YEAR.

>> WE COUNTED THE WEEKS.

LET'S SEE WHAT THE FIGURES SAY.

>> EXACTLY.

JIM: AND LET'S NOT HAVE IT OPEN ENDED.

DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD HELP?

ROB: EXACTLY.

ONE OF THE CANDIDATES IS RECOMMENDING A THREE WEEK -- LET'S SEE WHERE WE ARE.

WE ARE MASKING EVERYBODY FOR THE NEXT THREE WEEKS.

SOME OF THE MESSAGING COULD BE BETTER ON THIS.

I'M EXHAUSTED.

EVERYONE IS EXHAUSTED AND NO ONE WANTS TO WEAR MASKS.

WE WILL NOT BE BACK WHERE WE WERE.

A SHORT-TERM -- I EMPHASIZE SHORT-TERM -- MASK MANDY AND A CHECK IN TO SAY HEY, YOU ARE EITHER OVER THE HUMP OR WE ARE NOT IS THE WAY TO GO HERE.

JIM: I'M NOT SURE I AGREE.

RESTAURANT OWNERS PROBABLY KNOW THEIR AUDIENCE.

I'M IN A DIFFERENT PLACE THAN I WAS A YEAR AGO.

LITTLE HESITANT, NO VACCINE.

IF SOMEONE IS SAYING I NEED A MASK TO GO TO A RESTAURANT, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WILL DETER ME FROM GOING.

YOU GO IN AND TAKE YOUR MASK OFF, ANYWAY.

>> I DON'T KNOW -- I KNOW SOME BUSINESS OWNERS ARE SAYING -- >> WE WILL DROP OFF A CLIFF IF WE HAVE A MASK MANDY.

>> I THINK IF YOU -- >> MASK MANDATE.

>> I THINK IF YOU GO TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, THEY ARE DEALING WITH CUSTOMER ISSUES AND IT BECOMES DIFFICULT AS BUSINESS OWNERS WHEN YOU HAVE TO ENFORCE MANDATES FROM THE STATE.

WHEN YOU HAVE UNDERSTAFFED PLACES AND THE PEOPLE THERE ARE THE ONES WHO SHOWED UP, THEY ARE THE ONES THEY GET AND THEY ARE OVERWORKED.

>> THEY DON'T WANT TO BE THE MASK POLICE.

>> I'M SURE A MINORITY FEELS DIFFERENTLY.

DID THE MANDATE FOR EMPLOYEES -- IT GIVES THE BUSINESS OWNERS SAYING WE ARE NOT IMPOSING THIS.

IT WORKS BOTH WAYS.

I THINK SHORT-TERM IS THE KEY.

NO ONE WILL WANT AN EXTENSIVE, LONG-TERM MASK MANDY.

>> DO YOU GET THE FEELING -- >> MASK MANDATE.

>> DO YOU GET THE FEELING HE WILL CAVE?

YOU HAVE LIFESPAN COMING OUT AND IT IS A PROMINENT PLAYER.

GOVERNMENT, DO THIS AND HE STILL RESIST.

I'M SURE THE HELP THE PERMIT IS ON HIM, TOO.

AMANDA: I CAN'T PREDICT WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO DO BUT I AGREE WITH YOU ARE SAYING.

LET'S FACE IT, THERE ARE MASK MANDATES IN A LOT OF PLACES.

YOU CAN'T FLY WITHOUT WEARING A TRANSPORTATION.

WHAT IS OUR VACCINATION RATE?

72%, 73%?

WE ARE IN A BETTER PLACE BUT WE ARE BACK IN WINTER AGAIN AND WE HAVE NEW VARIANTS.

>> THERE IS A LOT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT COVID.

YOU WANT TO GET AHEAD OF THIS.

THE WORST THING FOR THE GOVERNOR IS HE DELAYS IT ANOTHER 3-4 WEEKS AND IT GETS WORSE AND HE IMPOSES A MASK MANDATE AFTER IT IS TOO LATE.

JIM: WHAT IS DRIVING THIS IS THE HOSPITALS.

WE HAD THE FIELD HOSPITALS.

IF YOU ARE GOING IN FOR A HIP REPLACEMENT, THERE WERE PLENTY OF BEDS.

THERE WAS SO MUCH THE FOCUS ON COVID.

NOW, THEY HAVE A STAFFING SHORTAGE.

THEY HAVE THE BEDS BUT THEY MAY NOT HAVE THE NURSES TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.

LET US WHERE LIFESPAN IS COMING FROM.

THE PUBLIC SAYS HEY, OUR NUMBERS ARE BETTER.

LIFESPAN IS LOOKING TO STAFF ALL OF THESE BEDS.

>> THERE ARE ANGLES TO HOSPITALIZATIONS THAT HAVE GOTTEN LOST.

I JUST GOT MY PHYSICAL.

GO TO MY PHYSICIAN'S OFFICE, WHICH IS ASSOCIATED WITH ONE OF THE MAJOR HOSPITAL GROUPS, IF I HAD ANYTHING REMOTELY RESEMBLE A COLD OR A COUGH IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS, I CAN'T GO THERE.

THAT'S NOT A POSITIVE COVID TEST.

I COULD HAVE HAD A COLD LIKE SYMPTOM IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER.

DO I GO TO THE HOSPITAL?

WHY ARE YOU SENDING ME TO THE HOSPITAL?

COMING HERE FOR PERHAPS A SICK VISIT, I'M NOT ALLOWED IN THE BUILDING.

WE HAVE A LOT OF THESE PRIMARY CARE OFFICES THAT ARE REGULAR DID BY THE APARTMENT OF HEALTH, WHICH EITHER BECAUSE THEY ARE OWN POLICY OR BECAUSE OF DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH REGULATIONS, I'M NEVER SURE.

I CAN'T GO TO A DOCTOR'S OFFICE, FULLY MASK AND VACCINATED.

THEY DON'T WANT SICK PEOPLE IN THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE, NOW, IF YOU HAVE MOST OF THE SYMPTOMS.

PEOPLE SEE THAT AND PEOPLE EXPERIENCE THAT.

THAT FACTORS INTO THIS COVID EXHAUSTION AND WHEN THE HOSPITALS ARE SAYING WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE, WE ARE SENDING A LOT OF PEOPLE TO THE HOSPITALS THAT SHOULD NOT BE GOING THERE.

>> JUST SAY YOUR TIMING ON HAVING KIDS IS HORRIBLE.

A LITTLE ASPIRIN, A LITTLE TYLENOL IF YOU HAVE A FEVER AND THEN YOU GO.

NOBODY WAS STANDING AT THE DOOR.

NOW, WE HAD A PANELIST WHO WAS CONCERNED ON LIVELY.

SHE DID NOT HAVE COVID.

THE WORLD HAS CHANGED.

>> ON THE OTHER HAND, COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS HAVE MORE THAN DOUBLED.

YOU STILL HAVE THE ISSUE OF HOSPITAL CAPACITY AND THEY ARE NOT DOING ELECTIVE SURGERIES, EVIDENTLY.

IF YOU COULD FREEZE-FRAME IT, YOU WOULD NOT NEED A MASK MANDATE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE TRENDS, THEY ARE HEADED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION IN THE SHORT TERM.

JIM: LET ME STAY WITH YOU.

A LITTLE MOVEMENT ON THE FEDERAL STIMULUS MONEY.

THE STATE SENATOR IS CAMPING OUT WITH THE STATE HOUSES AND GETTING COLD.

THE SENATE PRESIDENT IS FEELING THAT HE.

I'VE NEVER SEEN SOMETHING MOVE SO QUICKLY.

FINANCE COMMITTEE, THIS WEEK OR NEXT WEEK, WERE YOU EVER ON THE FINANCE COMMITTEE IN DECEMBER?

AND THEN IT WILL FLY THROUGH IN THE FIRST WEEK.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HOW THEY ARE APPROACHING THIS, VERSUS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE SAID WE HAVE A BILLION DOLLARS IN THE BANK SINCE APRIL, WHAT ARE WE DOING?

>> I THINK THAT SPENDING MONEY STRATEGICALLY, EARLY,ON THE OTHA BILLION-DOLLAR WINDFALL FOR RHODE ISLAND.

YOU WANT TO BE SMART AND STRATEGIC HOW YOU SPEND IT AND YOU WANT TO NOT CREATE LONG-TERM DEBT ISSUES BECAUSE THESE PROGRAMS EXTEND.

I'M OK.

I THINK THE TEST WILL BE DO WE HAVE AN INNOVATIVE, THOUGHTFUL PLAN FOR HOW TO IMPROVE RHODE ISLAND AND NOT JUST SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY HERE AND MAKE A COUPLE OF BIG BETS.

ONE WILL BE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THE PRESIDENT OF URI HAD AN OP-ED ABOUT THE OCEAN ECONOMY.

ASSUMING THERE HAS BEEN SOME ACTION, I KNOW RHODE ISLAND -- NEXT YEAR, YOU, WITH SOMETHING SPECIFIC THAT SAYS HERE IS HOW YOU BUILD A BETTER FUTURE FOR RHODE ISLAND.

I THINK HOLDING OFF WILL MAKE SENSE.

A FEW WILL DO -- IF WE WILL DO A LITTLE BIT OF THIS OR A LITTLE BIT OF THAT, WE MAY AS WELL HAVE DONE THAT SIX MONTHS AGO.

>> BEHIND -- BETWEEN THE HARBOR MONEY AND THE $600 MILLION SURPLUS, THIS IS UNCHARTED TERRITORY.

WE ARE USUALLY IN A HUGE DEFICIT.

AMANDA: I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM THE NONPROFITS WHO HAVE BEEN SCREAMING PLEASE HELP US AND WHY ARE WE WAITING SO LONG TO SPEND THIS MONEY.

IT IS INTERESTING THAT RHODE ISLAND IS THE LAST OF THE DEMOCRATIC STATES TO TACKLE THIS .

I UNDERSTAND THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS HAD SAID WE DON'T WANT TO RUSH.

YOU CAN'T JUST OPEN UP THE BACK OF THE STATE HOUSE AND THROW MONEY AT PEOPLE.

WHAT HAVE WE BEEN DOING ALL THIS TIME?

THE NONPROFITS HAVE SAID ALL ALONG THAT THERE IS A STAFFING CRISIS.

THEY CAN'T KEEP UP.

THEY CANNOT PAY PEOPLE WHAT THEY NEED TO PAY THEM.

>> CHILDCARE.

AMANDA: WHAT IS IT?

EARLY CHILDHOOD INTERVENTION, THEY COULD NOT TAKE REFERRALS ANYMORE?

THE NONPROFITS ARE SAYING IF WE WENT AWAY, YOU WOULD SEE HOW MUCH WORK WE DO IN THIS STATE.

YOU HAVE TO HELP US.

IT IS TAKING TOO LONG.

THEY WERE CONCERNED THIS WOULD GET KICKED UNTIL NEXT YEAR AND SAID WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO WAIT.

>> THEY HAVE AN ACTUAL COVID RELATED COST.

THE MONEY SHOULD BE EXTENDED IF WE HAVE IT.

-- EXPENDED IF WE HAVE IT.

IS THIS GOING TO CREATE ONGOING ENTITLEMENT OF A PROGRAM WE WILL HAVE TO FIND?

WHEN IT COMES TO OPERATING EXPENSES AND GRANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU RUN A RISK OF THAT HAPPENING.

WE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS MONEY AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE IT.

A GOOD CHUNK OF THE RELIEF FUNDS ARE MANDATED FOR FIVE NARROW CATEGORIES.

ONE OF WHICH, THE BIGS ONE CONTEMPLATED BY CONGRESS, WAS LOST REVENUE DUE TO THE PANDEMIC.

IT COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM REALITY, WE ARE SITTING ON A SURPLUS.

REVENUE HAS NOT GONE DOWN.

IT HAS MADE A RECOVERY.

JIM: LOCAL COMMUNITIES HAVE DONE THAT.

WARWICK, BACKFILLED WITH $8 MILLION OR $10 MILLION.

OTHERS ARE SPENDING IT ON STUFF THAT BLOWS YOUR MIND.

>> THEY ARE COMING UP WITH WISH LISTS AND THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO DO WITH COVID AND NOT STIMULATING TO THE ECONOMY.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN IT COMES TO THIS POT OF MONEY VERSUS THE REST OF THE BOOK THAT WE HAVE NOT SPENT, WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IT IS COMING IN DIFFERENT TRANCHES.

WE CAN SPEND ON A LOT OF THINGS.

MOVING FORWARD, IT WILL BE MONEY THAT WE HAVE TO GET CREATIVE ABOUT, BACKFILLING SPENDING THAT WE ARE ALREADY GOING TO SPEND AND THEN USE STATE GENERAL REVENUE WE CAN FREE UP FOR ONE TIME BIG BETS.

THIS IS THE DOWN PAYMENT WE CAN MAKE NOW THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THIS MONEY FOR IN THE FUTURE.

I THINK THIS FIRST POT OF MONEY THAT WE HAD THE MOST FLEXIBILITY WITH SHOULD BE GEARED TOWARD THAT.

THIS IS MONEY WE CAN SPEND ON INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS NOT RELATED TO WATER, SEWER OR BROADBAND.

WE SHOULD USE THIS AS THE DOWN PAYMENT.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS A GREAT WAY TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT IS REAL CONSTRUCTION.

IT SHOULD BE GEARED TOWARD NEW CONSTRUCTION AND NEW SUPPLY, NOT NECESSARILY NEW SUBSIDY PROGRAMS.

FOR ANYONE NOT RECEIVING A SUBSIDY, NOW YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE MONEY.

IT IS IMPORTANT WE ALLOCATE AS MUCH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO PLANES IN THE AIR, SHOVELS IN THE GROUND.

IF YOU CAN NARROWLY FIT IT INTO WHAT CONGRESS MANDATED YOU TO SPEND IT ON, I SAY WE DO IT.

THAT WOULD BE THE BEST USE OF THIS MONEY.

WE ARE NOT GETTING IT AGAIN.

NOW WE DON'T HAVE TO GO AND BORROW MONEY.

>> YOU HAVE GIVEN THIS A LOT OF THOUGHT.

>> THERE WILL ALSO BE A BUNCH OF FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY COMING IN.

>> THAT WAS THE JUSTIFICATION FOR NOT -- LISTEN, YOU KNOW IF WE SPENT THE MONEY, THIS WHOLE OTHER THING IS COMING IN.

>> FOR RHODE ISLAND AND OTHER STATE, IT IS INTERESTING.

IT IS A QUESTION OF STRUCTURAL DEFICIT, ETC.

WE HAVE TO GET OUR POLITICIANS A LITTLE MORE -- WE NOW HAVE MONEY.

LET'S MAKE SOME FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT BIG BETS.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS IN 10 YEARS, WE WILL SAY THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE.

THAT WAS NOT MONEY THAT JUST TRICKLED DOWN.

IN THE SHORT-TERM, SOME OF THE NONPROFITS NEED MONEY.

IF YOU TURN THIS INTO EVERY NONPROFIT GETS THEIR WISH LIST, THAT IS A PROBLEM TOO.

HERE IS A CHANCE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A STATE THAT LAGS BEHIND IN MANY WARY'S -- MANY WAYS.

THAT IS WHAT I WOULD BE LOOKING FOR IF I WAS A BOATER YEAR.

WHO HAS SOME REALLY GOOD IDEAS ABOUT HOW TO TAKE THIS MONEY?

THERE IS A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY HERE TOO.

JIM: THE SPEAKER HAS EMPHASIZED INVESTMENT, NOT SPENDING.

I AGREE WITH YOU.

I THINK ABOUT THAT.

THE CHILDCARE WORKERS ARE SO POORLY PAID.

WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE REVENUE STREAM?

IF YOU GIVE THEM MONEY NOW, EVERYBODY IS MAKING MORE MOEY NOW, RIGHT?

MAYBE NOT US.

TRYING TO GET THE RESTAURANT, THEY ARE HAVING TO PAY MORE.

>> THEY HAVE TO PAY MORE.

AMANDA: ALSO, WE GET BACK TO TOUT -- CHILDCARE, THEY ARE NOT PAYING THEM MORE.

THEY CAN'T FIND BODIES.

THEY CAN'T FIND PEOPLE TO TAKE CARE OF FOLKS.

YOU ARE PAYING 12 TO $15 AN HOUR TO DO A DIFFICULT JOB, YOU CAN GO TO MASSACHUSETTS AND MAKE MORE MONEY WORKING AT TARGET, YOU WILL DO THAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT IMPACT HAS BEEN?

NOW, IT IS GETTING NATIONAL ATTENTION, CAMPING OUTSIDE.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS HAVING AN IMPACT ON ATTENTION TO THE HOMELESS CRISIS?

DO YOU THINK IT IS HAVING AN IMPACT ON ATTENTION TO THE POLITICAL CO-OP?

>> I THINK BEYOND A COUPLE OF DAYS, IT IS SEMI-POINTLESS.

I THINK YOU GET YOUR MEDIA ATTENTION, INITIALLY.

AND, YOU WONDER, NOT TO BE OVERLY CRITICAL, BUT STATE SENATOR MENDEZ, SHE COULD BE DOING SOME THINGS THAT COULD MOVE THE NEEDLE.

I THINK IT IS FINE TO CALL ATTENTION TO THE PROBLEM.

I THINK IT IS GOOD.

AFTER CAMPING OUT FOR EIGHT DAYS, WHEN PEOPLE SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, AT SOME POINT, IT BECOMES ABOUT THE SPECTACLE AND NOT ABOUT ADVANCING THE ISSUE.

>> ON THIS ISSUE, IF YOU PULLED IT, YOU WILL FIND ONE OF THE HIGHEST APPROVAL RATINGS.

YES, WE ARE BEHIND THE POLICY.

>> A STORY THAT HAS BEEN DOMINATING THE HEADLINES FOR MONTHS, THE NORTH KINGSTOWN BASKETBALL COACH, ERIC THOMAS, I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD SAVE US ONLINE.

NAKED FAT TESTING.

WE USUALLY SAY REDISTRICTING OR WHATEVER.

WE HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT IT.

IT IS A GREAT TIME NOW.

SET THE TABLE.

I'M SURE MOST PEOPLE KNOW THE BASICS.

GIVE ME THE LATEST.

NOW THEY ARE PULLING BACK THE ONION ON WHO KNEW WHAT WENT ON.

AMANDA: THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS WORKING WITH THE NORTH KINGSTOWN POLICE DEPARTMENT TO FIND OUT.

LOOKING BACK, 30 YEARS.

AARON THOMAS, IF YOU'RE AROUND YOUTH SPORTS, YOU KNOW HIS NAME.

BASKETBALL COACH AT NORTH KINGSTOWN HIGH SCHOOL.

HE WAS HIRED IN 1990 AS A SOCIAL STUDIES TEACHER.

SOMETIME IN THE MID-1990'S, ACCORDING TO SOME OF THE STUDENTS I TALKED TO, HE STARTED DOING BODY FAT TESTS.

IT WAS MOSTLY FOR THE FASTBALL STUDENTS.

-- BASKETBALL STUDENT.

TAKE THEM INTO A CLOSET AND ASK THEM ARE YOU SHY OR NOT SHY?

IF YOU ARE NOT SHY, YOU WOULD TAKE OFF ALL YOUR CLOTHES TO CHECK YOUR FAT.

I TALKED TO THE DOCTOR AND YOU DON'T NEED TO GET NAKED FOR A BODY FAT TEST.

YOU ARE NOT CHECKING SOMEBODY'S GROWING OR CHECKING THE THIGH -- GROIN OR CHECKING THE THIGH.

HE DID NAKED BODY TESTS FOR A LONG TIME AND HAD CONSENT FORMS THAT PARENTS SIGNED THAT DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT NUDITY.

THIS CAME UP BECAUSE A COUPLE OF STUDENTS WHO ARE ADULTS REPORTED IT.

THEY REPORTED IN 2018.

NOTHING HAPPENED.

THEY REPORTED AGAIN IN 2021 AND THIS TIME HE WAS LIKE A AND GOT A JOB.

>> THE SUPERINTENDENT NEW ABOUT THIS.

-- KNEW ABOUT THIS.

WHAT WAS HE DOING?

WHEN HE FOUND OUT, WHAT WAS THE FOLLOW-UP AND WHY WAS THIS CONTINUING TO GO ON?

>> HE SWEARS THAT THE STUDENTS NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT NUDITY.

HE WAS AWKWARD AND UNCOMFORTABLE AND WEIRD.

DR. O'SHEA, THE PRINCIPAL AND THE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR SPOKE TO AARON THOMAS AND SAID NO MORE FAT TESTS.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT, YOU WILL HAVE TWO OTHER ADULTS PRESENT OR WE HAVE A MACHINE TO USE.

YOU NEVER FOLLOWED UP.

I TALKED TO A PARENT THAT SAID HE CONTINUED DOING THESE UP UNTIL 2020.

UP UNTIL HE WAS FINALLY LET GO, HE CONTINUED DOING IT.

>> AS A PARENT, IT IS A HORRIFYING STORY.

>> WHAT I AM TRYING TO WRAP MY HEAD AROUND HERE IS THE -- IN 2018, THE FAILURE OR THE FACT PATTERN BEHIND WHY THE SCHOOLS MADE THE DECISION THEY DID, WHICH WAS THERE IS NOTHING TO DO.

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE, ARE PEOPLE NOT CORROBORATING?

HE STAYS ON.

THE SECOND FAILURE POINT IS WHEN HE IS ALLOWED TO LEAVE UNDER WEIRD CIRCUMSTANCES FOR LEAVING EMPLOYMENT AND GAIN NEW EMPLOYMENT, WHERE THE NEW EMPLOYER, A NEW SCHOOL CLAIMS THEY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO, IF HE LEFT FOR A REASON, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISCLOSED THREE HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO LEAVE FOR WHATEVER REASON BECAUSE HE GOT -- SO HE GOT A POSITIVE REFERENCE.

>> OR EVEN A NEUTRAL REFERENCE.

>> IF YOU ARE LEAVING, YOU ARE LEAVING FOR A REASON.

THERE ARE SO MANY LAWYERS OF THIS ONION.

>> AFTER WINNING TWO STATE BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS.

>> IS HE IN ANY CRIMINAL JEOPARDY FOR THIS?

AMANDA: YEAH.

THERE ARE NO CRIMINAL CHARGES.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE SAID THIS IS AN ACT OF ONGOING INVESTIGATION.

THERE IS TIMOTHY CONLON, WHO SUED IN A NUMBER OF LAWSUITS AGAINST THE DIOCESE.

HE IS REPRESENTING THREE ATHLETES.

THEY ARE LOOKING AT POTENTIAL CIVIL LAWSUITS.

THE SCHOOL COMMITTEE IS REOPENING ITS INVESTIGATION.

THE TOWN COUNCIL HAS HIRED JUDGE SUSAN.

>> STAY IN YOUR LANE, RIGHT?

AMANDA: ALSO, WHAT HAPPENED?

THERE ARE PRINCIPLES, THERE ARE TEACHERS.

THERE ARE ATHLETIC DIRECTORS.

THERE ARE COACHES.

HOW DOES KNOW ADULT -- I CAN UNDERSTAND THE STUDENTS ARE NOT REPORTING IT.

HOW DO THE ADULTS NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON FOR 25 YEARS?

>> TO BE CONTINUED.

GREAT WORK ON THAT.

WE HAVE JUST ABOUT THREE TO FOUR MINUTES LEFT.

LET'S DO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

WHAT IS TICKLING YOUR FANCY THIS WEEK?

>> THIS IS A BIT OF A STORY -- THE NEWS HAS FLOWN UNDER THE RADAR THAT THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT POSSIBLY BUILDING THE NEW STATE MORGUE IN THE MIDDLE OF 195.

I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS THINGS WE COULD POSSIBLY DO.

AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE LIKE DON'T BUILD SOMETHING.

HERE'S THE DEAL.

THIS IS THE BEST REAL ESTATE WE HAVE, SMACK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BUSINESS CENTRAL DISTRICT.

WE ARE FINALLY STARTING TO SEE SOME LIFE -- PARDON THE PUN -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

JIM: WE NEED A MEDICAL EXAMINER COMING IN.

>> MAYBE THE STATE IS INVOLVED IN BUILDING LIFE-SCIENCES.

I'M NOT SAYING DON'T BUILD A LAB AT THE STATE MORGUE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THERE.

THIS IS A CLASSIC CASE OF TWO STATE AGENCIES TRYING TO MEET TOGETHER WITH A GRANT AND TAKE THE HEADLINE.

WE BUILT A LAB.

THE TWO THINGS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.

BUILD A WORLD-CLASS MORGUE, STATE CRIME LAB AND STATE FORENSICS LAB AND DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH LAB WHICH WE KNOW IS VERY IMPORTANT.

TAKE THE GRANT WE HAVE, TAKE COVID MONEY.

DON'T DO IT IN OUR BUSINESS.

>> I WORKED FOR 13 YEARS AT CHANNEL SIX, NEXT TO THE STATE LAB.

ROB, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

ROB: WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL.

IMAGINE WHAT THEY WOULD DO WITH THE STATE WARRANT ON THE 195.

1 JIM: OR THE -- JIM: FOR THE NAKED FAT GUY.

ROB: MY OUTRAGE IS DAVID PERDUE, THE FORMER SENATOR WHO LOST HIS REELECTION IN THE MIDDLE OF LAST YEAR S CHALLENGING BRIAN KEMP, THE CURRENT INCUMBENT REPUBLICAN IN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

NOT BECAUSE HE HAS A DIFFERENT VISION FOR HOW TO GOVERN RHODE ISLAND -- EXCUSE ME, GEORGIA.

BUT, BECAUSE BRIAN KEMP CERTIFIED THE 20,000 VOTE VICTORY OF JOE BIDEN IN THE ELECTION THAT WAS RECOUNTED.

THAT IS HIS REASONING FOR RUNNING AND HE SAID HE WOULD HAVE REFUSED TO CERTIFY THE ELECTION.

YOU HAVE THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAVING THE SAME ISSUES IN THE RACE.

THE OUTRAGE IS THERE IS NO OUTRAGE.

THIS IS JUST ANOTHER TUESDAY IN THE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN PARTY.

JIM: AMANDA, YOU GET THE LAST MINUTE.

AMANDA: I WILL DO A KUDOS.

IT GOES BACK TO NORTH KINGSTOWN.

THIS IS A BIG STORY BUT IT IS ONLY A BIG STORY BECAUSE SOME BRAVE FORMER STUDENT ATHLETES CAME FORWARD.

THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES.

NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

THIS WOULD HAVE CONTINUED ON IF IT HAD NOT BEEN FOR SOME YOUNG MEN CONTINUING -- COMING FORWARD AND SAYING THIS WAS NOT RIGHT.

BEING PERSISTENT, GOING BACK TO THE SCHOOL, POLICE AND MEDIA AND SAYING PLEASE STAY ON THIS UNTIL WE WERE FINALLY ABLE TO BREAK IT OPEN.

JIM: KUDOS TO YOU.

WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS A LONG TIME.

IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO ESTABLISH THOSE RELATIONSHIPS TO GET PEOPLE TO TRUST AND TALK TO YOU.

IT'S NOT EASY ON YOUR END.

THE STORY COMES OUT AND PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE ALL THE MONTHS.

AMANDA: I HAVE TO GIVE THEM CREDIT.

JIM: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

ROB, DAN, AND AMANDA, NICE TO SEE YOU.

IF YOU DON'T CATCH US ON FRIDAY AT 7:00, WE ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

YOU CAN TAKE US FOR YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST.

UP NEXT, WE WILL BE BACK HERE FOR THE LATEST.

WE WILL BE BACK AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I'M JOHN.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS, ALIVE LEAKS PERMIT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES