JIM: THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, RHODE ISLAND IS AWASH IN EXTRA MONEY.

WHAT WILL STATE LEADERS DO WITH?

THE INCOMING SECRETARY OF STATE WANTS TO IMPLEMENT RULES AROUND VOTING THAT HE TALKED ABOUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I'’M JOHN HAYES -- HAZEN WHITE JR.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US WITH THEIR INSIGHTS, LISA RANGLIN, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE RHODE ISLAND LIKE IS THIS ASSOCIATION.

, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST LOU PULNER, AND BILLY HUNT, CHAIRMAN OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY COVERED ISLAND.

WELCOME TO A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, I'’M JIM HUMMEL.

IT'’S GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU AGAIN THIS WEEK.

FOR A STATE THAT IS USED TO FACING MASSIVE BUDGET DEFICITS EVERY YEAR, RHODE ISLAND HAS THE PLEASANT CHALLENGE OF WHAT TO DO WITH AN EVEN GREATER THAN EXPECTED SURPLUS THIS YEAR TO THE TUNE OF 610 MILLION DOLLARS.

IT HAS SOME ASKING, IS IT TIME TO START GIVING THE MONEY DIRECTLY BACK TO THE PEOPLE WHO FUNDED THE SURPLUS, NAMELY THE TAXPAYERS?

LISA, I TALKED TO A PUBLIC OFFICIAL YEARS AGO WHO SAID IT IS A LOT EASIER WHEN YOU DO NOT HAVE MONEY BECAUSE THE ANSWER IS NO TO EVERYBODY.

NOW WE HAVE SO MUCH AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT THE MONEY.

ARE WE AT THE POINT WE SHOULD BE DOING SOMETHING DIRECTLY?

LISA: GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK, WITH INFLATION SO HIGH, FAMILIES ARE HURTING, AND I THINK STATE NEEDS TO STEP UP AND REALLY I THINK IT IS ABOUT CUTTING TAXES.

TO DO MORE, YOU GO TO THE MARKET.

FOOD IS OVERPRICED, EVERYTHING.

I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE HELP TAXPAYERS AND I THINK CUTTING TAX IS A GOOD WAY TO SEND A STRONG MESSAGE THAT, ONE, WE RECOGNIZE THERE IS A HUGE INFLATION AND WE WANT TO HELP AND I THINK GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO STEP UP AND DO MORE.

JIM: I THINK INFLATION MAY BE FUELING SOME OF THIS.

TAKING IN MORE MONEY AND THAT IS TAX REVENUE.

LOU: NO QUESTION.

I THINK I AGREE WITH LISA.

THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS HAS A LOT WHEN THEY HAVE A SURPLUS THAT THEY HAVE TO GIVE IT TO THE PEOPLE OF MASSACHUSETTS.

THEY ARE REFUNDING $3 BILLION DIRECTLY TO THE TAXPAYERS.

I KNOW GOVERNOR MCKEE IS PROBABLY GOING TO SAY, LISTEN, I ALREADY GOT RID OF THE CAR TEXT, THAT IS ENOUGH.

BUT THE FACT IS THEY CAN AND SHOULD DO MORE AND NOW MORE THAN EVER IS MY OPINION.

JIM: I THINK I HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT THE LIBERTARIAN VIEW WILL BE.

BILLY: TAXATION IS THEFT, SO CERTAINLY -- [LAUGHTER] CERTAINLY GOOD FOR THE TAXPAYERS.

AS LOU MENTIONED, YOU ARE LOWERING THE TAX BURDEN FROM THE 2021 TAX YEAR FOR MASSACHUSETTS RESIDENTS, 3 MILLION OF THEM, BY 14%.

THAT WOULD BE A LOT HELP TO MIDDLE-CLASS RHODE ISLANDERS WHO HAVE NOT HAD A LOT OF THE BENEFIT OF A LOT OF THE FEDERAL SPENDING FROM THE STIMULUS MONEY AND EVERYTHING.

WE DID GET THE ONE-TIME PAYMENT OR TWO TIME PAYMENTS DIRECTLY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT THE MIDDLE-CLASS HARD-WORKING RHODE ISLANDER THAT GOES TO WORK EVERY DAY THROUGH THE PANDEMIC AND DOES NOT MAKE ENOUGH TO REALLY BE ABOVE WHAT IS GOING ON WITH INFLATION AND ABSORB SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL EXPENSE BUT DOES NOT MAKE -- MAKES TOO MUCH TO QUALIFY FOR A LOT OF THE BENEFITS, THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE SHORT SHAFT IN A LOT OF THE STUFF.

I THINK DIRECTX RELIEVED -- RELIEF -- DIRECTS TAX RELIEF.

JIM: YOU GOT A $250 TILE -- TRIAL CREDIT, ARE YOU NOT GREAT OVER THAT?

[LAUGHTER] WHAT WITHOUT PAY FOR, THREE DAYS OF DAYCARE?

BILLY: THE DAYS I DIDN'’T SEND IT BECAUSE WE ARE SICK.

IT IS DEAFLY SOMETHING YOU ARE GETTING THE CRUMBS WHEN IT HAS BEEN $1 BILLION IN BUDGET SURPLUSES AND HERE WE ARE, AND HOMELESS PROBLEM, ALL SORTS OF ISSUES.

IT IS NOT SEEM TO BE HELPING THE AVERAGE RHODE ISLANDER.

LOU: WHAT OUR STATE NEEDS TO DO IS GIVE PEOPLE AN INCENTIVE TO STAY IN RHODE ISLAND WHEN THEY RETIRE.

IN THE LONG WAY TOWARD THAT WOULD BE STOP TAXING SOCIAL SECURITY.

BILLY: OR LIMIT A BASE ESTATE TAX.

PART OF THE INCREASE IN THE REVENUE -- LOU: THESE THINGS MAKE TOO MUCH SENSE BUT THAT WAS WHAT RHODE ISLAND SHOULD BE DOING.

WE ARE LEADING FROM BEHIND, NEVER LEAVING.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US CHANGE THAT.

LISA: WE SHOULD NOT JUST BE WAITING UNTIL SOMEONE RETIRES.

WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT YOUNG FOLKS COMING OUT OF COLLEGE.

LOU: WE WANT TO KEEP THEM THERE.

LISA: WE WANT TO KEEP THEM IN RHODE ISLAND.

WE THINK OF BUYING A HOME, THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO BUY A HOME.

I THINK THERE'’S LOTS OF THINGS THAT THE STATE CAN DO TO ENSURE FAMILIES ARE THRIVING.

NOT JUST WAIT UNTIL I DON'’T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL I AM RETIRED TO LIVE A GREAT LIFE AND I WANT TO ENSURE MY CHILD REMAINS IN STATE AND DOES NOT HAVE TO WORK IN THAT.

I THINK REDUCING SOME TAX BURDEN IS A WIN-WIN FOR RHODE ISLANDERS.

LOU: ALL OF THESE THINGS MAKE TOO MUCH SENSE.

OUR DELEGATION, ALWAYS A DEMOCRATIC DELEGATION, JUST IS NOT SEEN A DOLLOP THEY DON'’T WANT TO THROW AT SOCIAL SERVICES.

BILLY: THEY ALSO NEED TO PLAN FOR WHEN THESE FEDERAL FUNDS DRY OUT.

THE INCREASE IN REIMBURSEMENTS FOR MEDICAID ALONE ACCOUNTS FOR ALMOST 20% OF THE SURPLUS.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SCALES BACK SOME OF THESE ADDITIONAL EXPENSES THEY ARE REIMBURSING TO RHODE ISLAND.

DOMINICK RUGGERIO MENTIONED HE IS LOOKING TO MAKE ONE-TIME INVESTMENTS WITH THE SURPLUS DOLLARS.

THAT IS GREAT TO HAVE A BIG PROJECT THAT IS DONE BUT A BIG PROJECT AND INEVITABLY COMES WITH DIGITAL FUNDING TO MAINTAIN IT, STAFF IT, I MEAN LOOK AT THE PROVIDENCE BRIDGE THEY BELTS.

JIM: $2 BILLION TO $22 MILLION.

BILLY: AND THEY DON'’T HAVE TH MONEY TO PLAY FOR THE -- PAY FOR THE MAINTENANCE.

JIM: HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE SET HERE ON THE SET OVER THE LAST HOWEVER MANY YEARS WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS, $250 MILLION DEFICIT, AND THE BUDGET HAS GONE UP ABOUT $1 BILLION EVERY FOUR YEARS.

YOU WONDER, IF IN THE BACK OF THEIR HEAD THEY ARE LIKE, IT IS GREAT NOW BUT IN THE OUT YEARS, WE BETTER -- WE DO NOT WANT TO GIVE THIS MONEY BACK TO THE TAXPAYERS BECAUSE WE MAY NEED ED TO FILL THE GAP.

HOW ABOUT PUTTING TOO MUCH -- $2 MILLION IN A RAINY DAY FUND?

LOU: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

YOU HAVE $400 MILLION THAT CAN GO A LONG WAY.

WE DO NEED A RAINY DAY FUND.

JIM: I KNOW THEY REFILLED IT BUT THEY RATED IT WHEN THEY NEEDED IT.

BILLY: THEY ALSO REIMBURSE THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE TRUST FUND THAT HAS BEEN DEPLETED SIGNIFICANT FROM THE PANDEMIC.

THAT'’S AN ADDITIONAL TAX ON SMALL BUSINESSES AS THEY CONTINUE TO PAY FOR THAT, AS WE RAISE UP THAT FUND AS WELL.

ALL OF THESE THINGS COULD BE DONE TO HELP THE AVERAGE TAXPAYER OR BUSINESS OWNER WHICH WOULD DO A LOT TO HELP THE STATE IN GENERAL.

LISA: I THINK YOU ARE SPOT ON AS A RELATES TO SMALL BUSINESSES.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

WE WANT TO SUPPORT SMALL BUSINESS AND I THINK IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, BUT WHETHER IT IS INVESTING IN BRINGING MORE AFFORDABLE HOMES, LIKE REALLY AFFORDABLE HOMES, BECAUSE WE THROW A LOT OF WORDS AROUND, AFFORDABLE, BUT AFFORDABLE TO?

IT'’S AN PORTABLE TO THINK ABOUT -- IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT ONE INVESTMENT IN 250 MILLION IN HOUSING, BUT WHO CAN AFFORD THOSE PROPERTIES?

THEN WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE LACK OF OWNERSHIP, THAT IS ALSO AN ISSUE AS A RESULTS TO GENERATIONAL DISPARITIES ACROSS THE STATE.

SO I WOULD CHALLENGE THE STATE TO DO MORE AS A RELATES TO PEOPLE THAT ARE STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

JIM: IT BAFFLES ME WE HAVE -- IT IS THE HOMELESS AND THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, I KNOW THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES BUT SOMEWHAT RELATED.

GOVERNOR MCKEE IS HAVING PROBLEMS.

HE SAID EVERYTHING WOULD BE FINE BEFORE THANKSGIVING.

WITH ALL THIS MONEY SLOSHING AROUND -- I KNOW SOME PEOPLE DON'’T WANT TO GO TO A SHELTER, YOU HAVE TO BE CLEAN AND DRUG-FREE.

WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS PROBLEM WHEN WE HAVE THIS MONEY?

LOU: I THINK THE ANSWER TO THAT IS HOW DO YOU SPEND IT WISELY?

JIM: WHAT IS THE EXECUTION ON IT?

LOU: I CERTAINLY DON'’T HAVE THE ANSWER.

LISA: I THINK THERE'’S A LOT OF SMART PEOPLE IN RHODE ISLAND THAT WE CAN COME UP WITH A SOLUTION I CAN FIX SOME LONG-STANDING PROBLEMS.

I THINK WE NEED BOLD LEADERSHIP AND PEOPLE TO SAY THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WILL DRIVE SUSTAINABILITY FOR THE LARGER AMOUNT OF PEOPLE AND I DO THINK SOME OF THE MONEY SHOULD BE INVESTED IN SMALL BUSINESSES.

ESPECIALLY THOSE MICRO BUSINESSES STRUGGLING THAT WERE IMPACTED BY COVID-19.

JIM: AND THAT WAS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR MCKEE'’S WHEELHOUSE DURING THE PANDEMIC AND IT HAS CARRIED OVER.

BILLY: THE BUREAUCRACY OF STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CREATES A SITUATION WHERE IT IS NOT EFFICIENT TO BE PUTTING THIS MONEY THROUGH THEM TO GET TO THE HANDS OF THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS TO TAXPAYERS, TO PEOPLE LOOKING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THIS IS A BIGGER SYSTEMIC ISSUE THAT THERE'’S A LOT OF THINGS THE STATE IS TRYING TO DO THAT I THINK IS TOO MUCH AND IF THEY FOCUS ON THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF GOVERNMENT AND DOING THAT WELL AND EFFICIENT, IT WOULD SOLVE PROBLEMS ON THE BACKEND FOR THE HOMELESS ISSUE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING ISSUE, AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.

TAKE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU ARE DEALING WITH A SITUATION WHERE THERE ARE THESE CONSTRAINTS, STUDENTS GOING TO SCHOOL WHO ARE GETTING PELL GRANTS TO FUND THEIR FOLLOWED STORMS OR IN MANY CASES THE APARTMENT THEY LIVE IN IS TAKING HAS AWAY -- HOUSING AWAY FROM PEOPLE WHO COULD OTHERWISE AFFORD IT.

I KNOW IN ONE CITY THEY ARE LIMITING OCCUPANCY SO THAT CREATES MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FEWER HOUSING.

YOU'’RE DEALING WITH SITUATIONS THAT ARE EXTERNAL TO WHAT THE ACTUAL ABILITIES FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO THROW MONEY AT THE SITUATION AND LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THE MORE MONEY YOU THROW AT SOMETHING DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL GET A BETTER RESULT.

IT IS ABOUT SPENDING THE MONEY EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY.

LOU: THEY WILL NEVER GET AN ORDINANCE WITH LIMITING THE AMOUNT OF STUDENTS, IT WILL GET STRUCK DOWN.

JIM: THEY TRIED IT IN PROVIDENCE.

IT IS ONGOING.

I READ SOMEWHERE IF YOU GAVE $1000 TO 300,000 HOUSEHOLDS, THAT IS $300 MILLION.

I'’M SURE THEY DON'’T WANT TO LOSE THAT MUCH MONEY, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOU GOT SOMETHING TANGIBLE.

EVEN IF YOU GOT $500 TO HELP MAYBE WITH A GAS OR GROCERY BILL OR CUT THE GAS TAX.

THEY HAVE BEEN SO RESISTANT TO DO THAT AND I WONDER WHY.

LISA: WHEN I SAY BOLD LEADERSHIP, I THINK FOLKS ARE TRYING TO BE TOO "CORRECT."

I THINK THEY NEED TO BE "LET'’S DO IT.

WE HAVE ISSUES AND CHALLENGES IN THE STATE."

WE HAVE A $610 MILLION SURPLUS.

JIM: PLUS THE $1 BILLION.

LISA: PLUS THE ARBOR FUNDS THAT CAME IN.

I THINK WHEN I LOOK AT THE STAGE, I THINK EVERYBODY WANTS TO FIND THEIR SPECIAL PROJECT, IF YOU WELL.

AND THEY ARE NOT SEEING REAL FAMILIES STRUGGLING.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IN PROVIDENCE.

THAT IS A HUGE ISSUE AND WE NEED STRONG LEADERSHIP.

THERE IS NO WAY OUR CHILDREN SHOULD BE FAILING.

LOU: GENERATION AFTER GENERATION AFTER GENERATION.

LISA: WE GOT A CELL THAT, RIGHT?

THERE'’S NO WAY WE CAN KEEP REAPPOINTING THIS A PEOPLE FAILING OUR KIDS.

THOSE ARE THE FUTURE.

WE ARE NOT INVESTING IN KIDS, RHODE ISLAND WILL BE DEAD LAST.

JIM: COME JANUARY, WE WILL HAVE A FEW NEW GENERAL OFFICERS, ONE IS SECRETARY OF STATE, INCOMING SECRETARY OF STATE, WHO HAS SEVERAL IDEAS ON THE TABLE FOR VOTING.

WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A SECOND.

I HAVE TO GIVE A DISCLOSURE, HE IS MY BROTHER-IN-LAW.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'’T KNOW THAT AND THIS IS MY WORST NOT -- NIGHTMARE AS A REPORTER.

DOES NOT MEAN WE TALK ABOUT THEM ANY DIFFERENTLY BUT THAT TWO FULL DEGREES OF SEPARATION HAVE COME TO ME.

I KNOW LISA IS ON THE TRANSITION -- HIS TRANSITION TEAM.

SO MULTIPLE DISCLOSURES BUT I WANTED TO GET THAT OUT THERE.

SOME OF YOU KNOW BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN A STATE REP FOR 10 YEARS.

LOU, ON THE ISSUE HIMSELF -- ITSELF, HE TALKED ABOUT CONTINUING THEIR EARLY VOTING, MOVING THE PRIMARY TO JUNE, AND SAME-DAY VOTER REGISTRATION, WHICH SOME PEOPLE TAKE ISSUE WITH.

LOU: YOU AND I DON'’T HAVE DISCLOSURES, DEWEY?

[LAUGHTER] -- DO WE?

[LAUGHTER] I LIKE HIS IDEAS FOR THE MOST PART.

YOUR BROTHER-IN-LAW?

JIM: YEAH.

[LAUGHTER] LOU: BUT I'’M NOT A FAN OF SAME-DAY VOTER REGISTRATION.

I DON'’T THINK ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WALK IN, SHOW A COUPLE UTILITY BILLS, AN ID, AND BE ABLE TO VOTE.

I THINK YOU NEED TO MAKE A COMMITMENT IF YOU WANT TO BE A VOTER.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT EARLY VOTING?

LOU: IF THERE IS NO BALLOT HARVESTING, I'’M GOOD WITH EARLY VOTING BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE CANNOT WAIT IN LINE.

THEY CANNOT GO ON ELECTION DAY.

I THINK THERE IS MERIT TO THAT BUT THAT BALLOT HARVESTING HAS TO GO.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT SAME-DAY VOTER REGISTRATION?

LISA: I THINK ACCESS TO VOTING IS IMPORTANT ALL OF US.

IF THERE IS A U.S. CITIZEN THAT WANTS TO VOTE, I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE ACCESS.

I DO NOT SEEN ISSUE WITH EARLY VOTING.

I THINK I'’LL STRATEGY HE HAS LAID OUT WORKS FOR ME.

WE WENT TO ENSURE WE HAVE PARTICIPATION FROM U.S. CITIZENS AND IF THEY WANT TO VOTE ON THE DAY OF, THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO VOTE.

I BELIEVE IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE MAIL-IN BALLOTS.

EVERY ACCESS, ANYWAY PEOPLE CAN ACCESS, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT.

WE NEED TO GET MORE PEOPLE IN THE PROCESS.

WE'’VE SEEN IN THE LAST ELECTIONS THE TURNOUT.

I KNOW IT WAS RAIN IN, BUT ANY PLACE OR ACTION PEOPLE CAN VOTE, I THING WE SHOULD SUPPORT THAT.

BILLY: IN 2020, I THINK SOMETHING LIKE 70% OF THE VOTERS IN MY RACE WENT FOR EARLY VOTING OR MAIL-IN BALLOTS, AND THAT SEEMED A LITTLE UNTENABLE AND THE PANDEMIC CONTRIBUTED A LOT OF THAT.

JIM: AND YOU ARE RUNNING FOR STATE REP. BILLY: CORRECT.

THIS YEAR, I LOOKED AT BASIC NUMBERS, ROUGHLY ONE THIRD OF VOTERS ARE OPTING FOR THAT METHOD.

I'’M NOT NECESSARILY AGAINST THE IDEA OF GIVING PEOPLE DIFFERENT OPTIONS ABOUT HOW THEY WANT TO VOTE.

I THINK MAKING IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATES IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK IT IS JUST AS IMPORTANT TO MAKE IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE FOR CANDIDATES TO GET BALLOT ACCESS, ONE OF THE THINGS THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY BE PUSHING GREG FOR AFTER OUR LAST EXPERIENCE WITH OUR LAST GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE.

THE ILLUSION OF CHOICE OF MAKING IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR A PRESELECTED CANDIDATE IS A BIG ISSUE NOT ONLY IN RHODE ISLAND BUT THE NATION AND RHODE ISLAND WE ARE DEALING A LOT WITH THE ONE-PARTY DEMOCRATIC RULE.

HE MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT MOVING THE PRIMARY DATE TO JUNE.

NOT NECESSARILY AGAINST THAT EITHER, BUT THAT PUTS THE DECLARATION DATE BACK TO APRIL, GIVES TRUNCATED TIME FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO VET THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY AND WITH SO MANY UNCONTESTED OR NONCOMPETITIVE RACES IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, DO WE WANT TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO HAVE A COMPARISON OF THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT OR INDEPENDENT RATHER THAN THE DEMOCRATS OR THE MAIN RACE IN THE PRIMARY?

I AM AGAIN NOT NECESSARILY AGAINST ANY OF THESE IDEAS.

MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THE MORE COMPLICATED YOU MAKE A PROCESS, THE MORE OPPORTUNITY THERE ARE FOR FAILURES.

THERE IS A REASON WHY WHEN THEY HAVE ELECTIONS IN CONTESTED AREAS IN THE MIDDLE EAST OR SOMETHING IT IS DAY OF VOTING, STICK YOUR FINGER AND GET THE THINK ON YOUR FINGER SO YOU -- SO THEY KNOW YOU VOTE.

IF YOUTH OUT AVENUES AND OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE, ARE WE CREATING PROBLEMS NOT ONLY FOR FRAUD OR ANYTHING BUT FOR POLL WORKERS TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN AND FOLLOW THE PROCESS.

I THINK THAT IS ASKING A LOT OF VOLUNTEERS.

LOU: YOU HAVE TO WONDER ALSO IF JOHN FETTERMAN WOULD HAVE BEATEN DR. OZ IN PENNSYLVANIA FOR THE EARLY VOTING WHICH WAS HEAVILY IN FEDERMAN'’S FAVOR BEFORE THE DEBATE.

THERE CAN ALWAYS BEEN A LAST MINUTE -- OCTOBER SURPRISE LAST MINUTE SCANDALS.

I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO BE COMMITTED.

JIM: IF YOU VOTE 20 DAYS BEFORE AND THERE'’S SOME OCTOBER SURPRISE, ONE THING I THINK I'’VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE, MAYBE SHORTEN IT TO 10 DAYS INSTEAD OF 20.

I DON'’T KNOW SUBSTANTIALLY WHETHER THAT DOES ANYTHING.

LISA: I THINK IT IS REALLY AROUND EDUCATION.

WE HAVE TO ADD EDUCATION TO IT.

GIVING PEOPLE OPTIONS TO VOTE, REGARDLESS OF TIMEFRAME, I AM ALL FOR ACCESSIBILITY.

WHEN I ALSO THINK IS IMPORTANT, WE HAVE TO EDUCATE BECAUSE WE CANNOT JUST MAKE SOMEONE VOLUNTEERING AT THE POLLS.

BECAUSE THEY ARE VOLUNTEERING STANDARDS ARE LOWER.

NO.

WANT TO MAKE SURE THESE FOLKS WORKING ARE TRAINED AND FOLKS THAT ARE GOING TO BE VOTING UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD LIMIT VOTE IN OPTIONS AND WE SHOULD MAKE SURE PEOPLE FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY THEY ARE VOTING, WHO THEY ARE VOTING FOR, AND WHO ARE ON THE BALLOTS.

JIM: DON'’T YOU THINK ALSO THE EDUCATION PART IS ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU WAKE UP AND GO IT ON -- IT IS ELECTION DAY AND I HAVEN'’T REGISTERED.

WOULDN'’T YOU THINK THE EDUCATION PIECES YOU NEED TO REGISTER MAYBE SEVEN DAYS FROM THE ELECTION AND THAT YOU CAN JUST SHOW UP?

THE PRIMARY IN JUNE ARGUMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND THE REASON THE LEGISLATURE NEVER DID IS INCOME IS DON'’T WANT TO BE SITTING IN THE BUILDING WHILE PATEL -- WITH POTENTIALLY THE RIVALS.

I THINK WITH AN INCOME HE -- WHAT THE INCOMING SECRETARY ASSANGE IS YOUR SESSION WOULD END EARLIER, WHICH IT USUALLY DOES.

YOU MAKE A GREAT POINT I HAD NOT THOUGHT ABOUT ABOUT DECLARATION.

YOU HAVE TO REALLY HAVE YOUR PEOPLE ON BOARD EARLY ON.

BILLY: IT'’S DIFFICULT FOR AN INDEPENDENT OR THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE TO FIND THE CANDIDATE TO GET THE ORGANIZATION AND NOW YOU TALK ABOUT APRIL AND THAT FAR OFF BEFORE ELECTION SEASON WHEN PEOPLE ARE NECESSARILY IN THE MINES LET -- MINDSET.

THE BENEFIT TO KEEPING OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS HONEST IN TERMS OF BUDGET SEASON AND MAYBE CAPITALIZING ON HAVING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION BEING FRESH IN EVERYONE'’S MIND, THERE MIGHT BE BENEFIT.

I THINK PRACTICALITY WITH THE LACK OF RESOURCES THAT EVEN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS WITH SOME OF THEIR CANDIDATES TO PUSH THAT TO APRIL WOULD BE A DISADVANTAGE TO ANYBODY EXCEPT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WHO HAS THE ORGANIZATION IN THE STATE.

LOU: AND INCUMBENCY.

JIM: WE WILL SEE HOW THAT GOES.

WE ARE TAKING ON A WEDNESDAY.

TOMORROW, THURSDAY, DECEMBER 1, RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA WILL BE AVAILABLE, LEGAL NOW.

DO NOT EXPECT TO HAVE A POT SHOP POP UP IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD ANYTIME SOON, EVEN THOSE VOTED -- VOTED TO HAVE IT SUCCUMB TO YOUR COMMUNITY.

IT OCCURS TO ME, WE TALKED FOR YEARS ABOUT GAMBLING USED TO BE A BIG DEAL, YOU DON'’T MEMBERS FIVE YEARS AGO, NOW IT IS HOW HMMM.

REMEMBER THOSE YEARS WE TALKED ABOUT DOMINICK RUGGERIO DID NOT WANT TO HAVE THE PLOT GO THROUGH?

I WONDER NOW THAT IT IS HERE WHETHER WE SEE SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES IN SOCIETY, WHETHER THERE ARE THINGS WE NEED TO DO THAT MAYBE WE HAVE-NOTS, OR IS IT GOING TO BE LIFE GOES ON AND YOU CAN GET BY, LEGALLY AND YOU COULD BUY IT FROM A STORE NOW?

LISA: YOU CAN BUY IT FROM A STORE BUT I THINK THE OTHER PIECE IS THE FAMILIES IMPACTED BY INCARCERATION FOR SELLING WEED.

NOW IT IS FREE AND LEGAL.

SO WHAT ABOUT THOSE FAMILIES?

JIM: THEY ARE GOING THROUGH AND PURGING SOME OF THE MISDEMEANOR CHARGES.

LISA: SOME OF IT BUT I THINK THERE HAS TO BE MORE FAMILIES FOR THAT GENERATIONAL IMPACT.

WHEN SOMEBODY IS INCARCERATED FOR DECADES BEFORE -- FOR SELLING WEED.

LOU: I DISAGREE, IT WAS AGAINST THE LAW AND THEY BROKE THE LAW.

NOW THEY WANT TO PURCHASABLE MARIJUANA POSSESSION CHARGES FROM THE RECORDS BUT I'’M NOT LOOKING FOR ANY COMPENSATION FOR THOSE WHO MAY HAVE BROKEN THE LAW IN THE PAST.

LISA: PEOPLE ARE MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS SELLING WEED.

AND POOR WHITE AND BLACK AND BROWN ARE STILL ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY SELLING WEED AND NOW THE MAJORITY OF WHITE FOLKS ARE MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS SELLING WEED, THE SAME THING.

SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A JUST SOCIETY.

FAMILIES ARE ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY SELLING WEED SHOULD ALSO BENEFIT BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BE MORE ACCESS, RIGHT?

WHERE'’S THE EQUITY?

BILLY: NONVIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS SHOULD NEVER BE INCARCERATED FOR ANY REASON BEFORE WHETHER LEGAL OR ILLEGAL.

THAT IS THE BIGGER ISSUE WITH THIS.

TO YOUR POINT, I THINK THE PEOPLE ENDING UP WITH THIS LOTTERY FOR THE LICENSES THEMSELVES ARE NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY THE ENFORCEMENT PRIOR TO THE LEGALIZATION.

I THINK THE BIGGEST SOLUTION TO ADDRESSING THE ISSUE IS GET RID OF ALL REGULATIONS AROUND CANNABIS.

I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE REGULATED NIGHT -- LIKE A TOMATO PLANT, SOMETHING PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO GROW UP TO THREE PLANTS AT THEIR HOME ANYWAY.

WE'’VE CREATED A SITUATION WHERE WE CREATED A BUNCH OF REGULATORY PROCESS AND ADDED TAXES TO IT.

WE ARE CREATING A GREY MARKET WHICH IS NOT ANY BETTER THAN THE BLACK MARKET IN RHODE ISLAND AND , BY DOING ALL OF THIS, IT WILL BE 12 TO 18 MONTHS BEFORE WE GET A RECREATIONAL SHOP OPEN.

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GOING TO MASSACHUSETTS SINCE 2018.

WE'’VE ALREADY BEEN DEALING WITH THE SOCIAL ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH HAVING CANNABIS LEGALIZED IN THE STATE OF RIGHT ISLAND.

I DON'’T SEE MUCH CHANGING EXCEPT FOR THE FACT WE ARE CREATING A LOT OF BUREAUCRACY AND EXPENSE AROUND IT WITH THE REGULATION.

JIM: -- LOU: AND OUR TAXES ON THE LEGAL POT WILL BE HIGH TO THE EXTENT PEOPLE ALREADY GOING TO MASSACHUSETTS AND PAYING A LOWER PRICE -- JIM: PRICE HAS DECREASED ALSO IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE MARKET PRICE.

LOU: THE PROBLEM IS PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO GO TO MASSACHUSETTS INSTEAD OF BUYING IT HERE.

IT WILL NOT BE THE CASH COW I ORIGINALLY PREDICTED IF THEY ARE GOING TO KEEP THE PRICES UP WHERE THEY SAY THEY ARE.

JIM: SO IT IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO GO TO YOUR DEALER?

?

LOU: MY SUGGESTION IS IF YOU WANT TO MAKE IT AS COMPETITIVE IN THE LEGAL MARKET, USE SOME OF THAT $600 MILLION SURPLUS TO COUNTERACT SOME OF THE HIGH TAXES TO KEY PEOPLE IN RHODE ISLAND TO PURCHASE THEIR POT AS OPPOSED TO GOING TO MASSACHUSETTS.

JIM: LET ME ASK YOU QUICKLY FROM A PROSECUTORIAL STANCE.

YOU ARE A PROSECUTOR AND THERE ARE ISSUES WITH JUDGING WHETHER PEOPLE DRIVING WHILE HIGH -- AND HAVE WE WORK THOSE OUT?

LOU: NOT AT ALL.

WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL DRUG RECOGNITION EXPERTS.

THEY ARE TRAINED FOR A LENGTHY PERIOD OF TIME OUT OF STATE AT A CERTAIN ACADEMY.

THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHETHER SOMEBODY IS DRIVING IMPAIRED DUE TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN ALCOHOL.

YOU PULL SOMEONE OVER BECAUSE THEY ARE WEAVING AND YOU ASKED THEM TO TAKE A BREATH TEST AND IT COMES UP ZEROS, NOW YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT THIS IS IN THEIR SYSTEM.

WE DO NOT HAVE A FOOLPROOF WAY.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE DRE'’S, EVEN THOUGH I BELIEVE THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANT, THEY ARE NOT -- A LOT OF JUDGES DO NOT LIKE TO ACCEPT THE SUBJECTIVE TESTING BY A POLICE OFFICER.

JIM: I AGREE WITH LISA, THE WARREN DRUGS DID AFFECT AN INCARCERATED GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES.

LISA: AND IT -- LOU: AND I DID NOT MEAN TO DISPUTE.

I AGREED WITH EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR THE RE-COMPENSATION ASPECT.

LISA: YEAH, FAMILIES ARE HURTING, RIGHT?

AND WE GOT DO MORE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE SURPLUS EARLIER.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO GENERATE FUNDS FROM SELLING WEED, WE GOTTA GO TO THOSE FAMILIES THAT ARE IMPACTED, THAT ARE STRUGGLING MARIAH?

WE GOTTA LIFT PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY.

MOST OF THESE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE RECORDS CANNOT GET A JOB, AND IF THEY GET A JOB IT IS A LOW-PAYING JOB, SO THEY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE DRAW IN STRUCTURAL CHANGES THAT LIFTS ALL RHODE ISLANDERS UP, NOT TO SOME OF US.

JIM: FINAL THOUGHT ON THAT?

BILLY: HOW ABOUT GETTING ALL THE ROADBLOCKS OUT OF THE WAY.

YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE COMPETITION FOR MASSACHUSETTS, WE ARE ALREADY DRIVING OVER THE BORDER.

I LIVE IN THE EAST BAY TO GET GAS, GROCERIES, RETAIL.

THEN JUST FROM RECENTLY, IT WAS IN THE NEWS FOR LOSING AN APPEAL FOR SHAKING DOWN LICENSEES ARE PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THERE WAS A REPORT FROM W PRI ABOUT THE HEAD AID FROM THE SPEAKERS INVOLVED WITH THE GROW OPERATION.

THIS IS SOMETHING REGULATION IS NOT DOING ANYTHING TO PREVENT AND JUST COSTING US A LOT OF MONEY IN THE END.

JIM: LET'’S DO OUTRAGE AND/OR KUDOS.

DO YOU HAVE ON THIS WEEK?

LOU: YEAH, I HATE KUDOS, YOU KNOW THAT.

JIM: SO DO I, GO AHEAD.

LOU: MY OUTRAGE IS -- AND SHOUT OUT TO PEGGY DUDLEY, A VIEWER WHO CALLED ME OUT BECAUSE I SAID JOE BIDEN SHUT DOWN THE PIPELINE WHEN HE GOT INTO OFFICE ON THE FIRST DAY.

REALITY IS, HE DID NOT SHUT IT DOWN BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER FLOWING BUT HE DID PREVENT US, BY ALL OF HIS ACTIONS, FROM BECOMING ENERGY INDEPENDENT.

WE SAW HE WENT TO SAUDI ARABIA, THE PRESIDENT DEAD, WITH HAT IN HAND TRYING TO GET THEM TO PUMP MORE OIL BECAUSE HE CALLED THEM A PARIAH, THEY SAID NO AND WE WOULD REDUCE OUR PRODUCTION BY 2 MILLION BARRELS.

LONG IN THE SHORE, HE WANTS TO GO TO VENEZUELA, HOME OF A DICTATOR, HUMAN RIGHTS BRUTAL PERSON, AND HE WANTS CHEVRON TO DRILL THERE.

JIM: WHO SAYS WE ARE NOT RESPONSIVE TO OUR VIEWERS?

THANK YOU TO PEGGY DUDLEY.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

BILLY: WE TOUCHED ON THIS EARLIER.

WHERE WE LIVE IN NEW ENGLAND, IT GETS COLD EVERY YEAR AND WE HAD A HUGE DISASTER WITH THE NAILA HOTEL.

THE FACT THE HOMELESS CRISIS IS A PERNIO ISSUE IS UPSETTING ABOUT THE WIKI ADMINISTRATION.

THEY HAVE BEEN IN A POSITION TO KNOW THIS IS A CAMPAIGN PROMISE TO GET THESE PEOPLE HOUSED BEFORE THANKSGIVING.

I WE HAVE PEOPLE PERPETUALLY LIVING IN TENTS AND THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE A PLAN IN EFFECT.

LIBERTARIANS BELIEVE THIS SHOULD NOT BE A GOVERNMENT ISSUE, HANDLED BY PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS.

AND THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THE NINE SCARIEST WORDS IN THE HUMAN LANGUAGE IS I'’M FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND I'’M HERE TO HELP.

WE HAVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND WE DON'’T SEEM TO BE HELPING ANYBODY AND THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

JIM: LISA, YOU GET THE LAST MINUTE.

LISA: WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM IN PROVIDENCE?

I AM OUTRAGED ABOUT THAT.

WE NEED STRONGER LEADERSHIP AND CHANGES.

JIM: WAS THERE A LITTLE BIT OF INFIGHTING GOING ON?

LISA: LOTS OF FIGHTING, THE SCHOOL BOARD, PARENTS ARE SHUT OUT.

OUR KIDS NEED TO BE SAFE, NEED TO BE ABLE TO BE LEARNING, AND THEY NEED TO BE IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS SUPPORTIVE.

JIM: HOW MUCH LONGER DO YOU GIVE THE TAKEOVER?

LISA: I SAID THE TAKEOVER FAILED.

I'’VE NOT SEEN ANYTHING TO DATE THAT SHOWS ME THEY HAVE A HAND AROUND WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

WE NEED TO GET BACK INTO THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE.

I RESIDE IN THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE AND I'’VE TWO SISTERS THAT OUR SCHOOL TEACHER IN THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE AND WE NEED LEADERSHIP IN THE GOVERNOR NEEDS TO, IN MY OPINION, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT FAILED OUR KIDS, THEY NEED TO BE GONE.

WE HAVE GIVEN THEM TOO LONG OF A TIME TO TURN THIS AROUND AND IS NOT WORKING.

HOPEFULLY THE NEW MAYOR COMES IN IN JANUARY AND WILL NOT CARRY THROUGH WHAT GINA STARTED BUT THINK ABOUT OUR KIDS AND FAMILIES.

JIM: WE WILL GET ALL OVER THAT IN JANUARY.

LOU AND LISA, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

IF YOU DON'’T CATCH US FRIDAY AT 7:00 OR SUNDAY AT NOON, CHECK US OUT ONLINE AND ALL OF OUR SHOWS ARE ARCHIVED AT RIPBS.ORG /LIVELY.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR LOYALTY TO THE SHOW AND WE WILL BE BACK YOUR NEXT WEEK.

JOIN US AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PREFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] 0 A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I'’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE JR.. FOR OVER 30 YEARS, LIVELY EXPERIMENT PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF CLINICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT