JIM: THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, ANOTHER YEAR IN THE BOOKS, BUT BEFORE WE TURN THE PAGE, IT IS OUR ANNUAL REVIEW OF THE GOOD, BAD, AND UGLY OF RHODE ISLAND.

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HAZEL Y JUNIOR.

FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, WE HAVE PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS INTO POLITICAL ISSUES.

I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US ON THE PANEL AS THEY DO EVERY YEAR, RETIRED URI POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR MAUREEN MOAKLEY, IAN DONNIS, POLITICAL REPORTER FOR THE PUBLIC'S RADIO, AND BROWN UNIVERSITY POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSIONAL -- PROFESSOR WENDY SCHILLER.

WELCOME TO OUR YEAR END ADDITION OF A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, OUR CHANCE TO REFLECT ON THE HIGHLIGHTS AND LOW LIGHTS OF 2021 TO SEE IF PREDICTIONS WERE A HIT-OR-MISS, AND TO OFFER PROGNOSTICATION FOR 2022.

WE ARE MISSING ONE OF OUR REGULARS.

DAVE LAYMAN IS OVERSEAS WITH HIS FAMILY FOR CHRISTMAS BUT WE GOT HIS PREDICTION BEFORE HE LEFT WHICH WE WILL PLAY LATER.

WELCOME.

SO NICE TO ALL BE IN PERSON THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED TO ZOOM FROM LAST YEAR.

WENDY, LET'S START WITH YOU, TOP LOCAL STORY.

WENDY: MY TOP LOCAL STORY IS SABINA MATOS, THE SENATE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCING A RUN AND MENDEZ STEEPING UP WITH MATT BROWN TO RUN FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

THESE ARE HISTORY MAKING WOMEN, FIRST LATINA FIRE -- FOUR NELLY -- AND NOW SABINA MATOS AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

RHODE ISLAND REPRESENTS THE ASCENSION OF LATINO VOTERS AND PARTICULARLY LATINO WOMEN AND THEIR POWER.

THEY ARE MOSTLY DEMOCRATS BUT YOU CAN ALSO PEOPLE LIKE JESSICA DELACRUZ ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE AND ALSO MORE LATINA WOMEN ARE RUNNING FOR OFFICE AS REPUBLICANS.

IT IS AN INCREDIBLE MOVEMENT, AN OFFSHOOT OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT SOCIAL MOVEMENTS, BUT IT SHOWS THE PENDULUM SWINGING AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

IAN: MY TOP LOCAL STORY IS HOW RHODE ISLAND AND THE WORLD CONTINUE TO WRESTLE WITH THE COVID PANDEMIC.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER WITH OMICRON.

IT SEEMED LIKE THINGS WERE EARLIER DURING THE WARMER WEATHER, BUT IT IS JUST A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION TESTING POLITICAL LEADERS.

PEOPLE WILL BE UNHAPPY NO MATTER HOW THINGS COME DOWN.

IF WE ALL TOOK MORE SERIOUSLY THE CALL TO GET VACCINATED WITH THE BOOSTER, THAT WOULD HELP BRING THINGS TO A BETTER STATE BUT THE COUNTRY IS VERY MUCH STILL IN THE THICK OF THE PANDEMIC MAUREEN: MY TOP LOCAL STORY IS REMINDER RESIGNING AND -- BECOMING GOVERNOR.

IT MADE A PROFOUND DIFFERENCE IN THE STRUCTURE OF THE STATE AND WE NOW HAVE AI THINK THAT'S A RS TRANSFORMATION.

IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE WE MAY HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THE PERSON THAT WINS THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD -- GOVERNORSHIP WILL GET ONE THIRD OF THE VOTE AND JUST AS AN ASIDE, WE NEED TO REFORM THE PRIMARY SYSTEM BECAUSE HAVING ALL THESE PEOPLE IS NOT A GOOD THING.

WENDY: RAMON DO IN HER -- GINA RAIMONDO HAD FORMIDABLE OPPONENTS AND DIDN'T WIN MUCH MORE THAN A THIRD.

38%.

IT'S NOT UNUSUAL WHEN YOU ARE HAVING STRONG CHALLENGERS SO IT WILL BE MESSY FOR THE DEMOCRATS BUT I THINK IT IS A SIGN WE HAVE CAPABLE PEOPLE.

MAUREEN: I THINK IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE THAT YOU HAVE THESE LOW PERCENTAGES THAT GO ON TO BE GOVERNOR.

WE NEED TO REFORM THE PRIMARIES.

JIM: IF AND WHEN THE REPUBLICANS BRING FORWARD A GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE, IT WILL PROBABLY BE A DEMOCRAT VERSUS A REPUBLICAN AND THERE MIGHT BE SOME INDEPENDENT TO GET A SMALL PERCENTAGE, BUT THE EVENTUAL WINNER WILL LIKELY GET MORE THAN 50%.

YOU REMEMBER LINCOLN CHAFEE AND THE FIRST RUN WHERE SHE GOT THE 38%.

MAUREEN: I THINK THAT THIS SITUATION HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO REFORM THE PRIMARY SYSTEM.

IT'S JUST AN IMPORTANT THING TO DO.

LIKE A RUNOFF.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU HAVE TO GET A MAJORITY.

JIM: THAT'S A DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER SHOW.

IAN, YOUR TOP NATIONAL STORY?

IAN: THE ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6.

THIS WAS THE DAWNING OF A FRIGHTENING NEW MOMENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

ACCORDING TO THE ATLANTIC, THERE ARE SOME 20 MILLION AMERICANS WHO BOTH THINK THAT THE ELECTION WAS SOMEHOW STOLEN FROM TRUMP -- THAT WAS NOT THE CASE -- AND THEY ARE PREPARED TO USE VIOLENCE TO MOVE FORWARD THEIR OPINIONS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THE COUNTRY IS STILL VERY MUCH DEALING WITH.

WE HAD A STATE REPRESENTATIVE FROM SOUTH COUNTY IN WASHINGTON FOR THIS WHO SUBSCRIBED TO THE CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT ANTIFA WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS INSURRECTION, THAT IS OF COURSE ABSOLUTELY FALSE.

THIS IS A VERY DISTURBING MOMENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

MAUREEN: I HAVE THE SAME THING BUT I WILL GO ON TO THAT.

THIS MAY BE THE STORY OF THE ERA.

NOW THAT WE KNOW THE AFTERMATH AND WE SEE THAT TRUMP HAS BEEN SO INVOLVED, SO MANY PEOPLE WERE SO INVOLVED IN CONSPIRACY TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION, THAT'S THE THING THAT'S FRIGHTENING IN THE SENSE THAT ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED AND AS THIS UNFOLDS, IT SEEMS THAT PEOPLE ASKED HIM TO STOP.

PEOPLE FROM THE MEDIA.

AND IT'S REALLY A DISTURBING, ACTUALLY PART OF OUR HISTORY AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN THIS ALL COMES OUT.

JIM: WENDY?

WENDY: I HAVE A DIFFERENT STORY, ALTHOUGH I THINK A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS COME FROM THE DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE AND POPULAR VOTE.

WE HAVE THESE TWO DIFFERENT WAYS OF MEASURING WHO WON THE ELECTION.

NIXON WON THE POPULAR VOTE, KENNEDY WON THE ELECTION.

GEORGE BUSH, GORE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.

OVER AND OVER, HOW DO WE COUNT WHO WINS?

BIDEN HAD 7 MILLION MORE VOTES AND ELECTORAL VOTES BUT THAT CONTINUES TO FESTER.

THE TOP NATIONAL STORY IS THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE DEMOCRATS PASSED A LAW AND HAD A COMPLETELY SUCCESSFUL YEAR.

COVID EXTENSION, COVID SUBSIDY, IMPLEMENTING A VACCINE PLAN, AND INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THE GOP COULD NOT PASS, DEBT CEILING EXTENSION UNTIL MARCH 2023 WHICH KEEPS OUR STABILITY ON FOOTING, NO GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWNS, AND MORE FEDERAL JUDGES -- 40 -- THAT WERE CONFIRMED INCLUDING WOMEN AND MEMBERS OF UNDERREPRESENTED GROUPS.

POLITICAL MALPRACTICE FOR THE BILL BACK BETTER PLAN, THIS PANEL THAT JUST DIED, IT WAS WAY TOO MUCH.

IT BURIED EVERYTHING ELSE THEY DID AND THEY FAILED TO CAPITALIZE ON WHAT WAS A SUCCESSFUL YEAR.

MAUREEN: THAT'S A GOOD ONE.

IAN: INFLATION, BIDEN'S PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THEY SAY THE MEDIA MESSAGE CONTINUES TO BE INFLATION.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS SHOULD BE THE MESSAGE AND IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE GETTING THROUGH.

WENDY: IT WAS THEIR FAULT.

THEY FOCUS ON THE NUMBER ORIGINALLY AND THE FIGHT BETWEEN PROGRESSIVES AND MODERATE DEMOCRATS COMPLICATES THINGS BUT TO TRILLION DOLLARS, $3 TRILLION, $1 TRILLION, NOBODY KNEW WHAT WAS IN IT.

PLUS, THEY DID A LOT OF OTHER STUFF.

YOU COULD ARGUE PUTTING MORE MONEY IN THE ECONOMY CREATES INFLATION BUT THE LOOSENING OF THE PANDEMIC TEMPORARILY, EVERYBODY WANTED TO SPEND MONEY AND THAT WILL CAUSE INFLATION.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE WAITED TOO LONG TO RAISE INTEREST RATES.

JIM: LET'S DO BIGGEST WINNER AND BIGGEST LOSER.

MAUREEN: BIGGEST WINNER -- GINA RAIMONDO AND DAN KEY.

GINA RAIMONDO LEFT, HAS BEEN AN WASHINGTON FOR ABOUT NINE MONTHS.

SHE IS NOW LISTED AMONG 10 PEOPLE WITH PRESIDENTIAL POSSIBILITIES.

SHE LEFT AND WAS A GREAT SUCCESS.

SHE'S NOT IN RHODE ISLAND AND SHE'S MADE A NAME FOR HERSELF.

I THINK SHE'S A WINNER FOR SURE.

AND ALSO DAN MCKEE, HE MAY NOT BE THE MOST DECISIVE KIND OF A GOVERNOR, BUT HE IS THERE.

HE IS THE INCUMBENT.

THAT GIVES HIM AN ADVANTAGE SO THAT SAID, THEY WERE THE BIGGEST WINNERS.

JIM: DO YOU HAVE A BIGGEST LOSER?

MAUREEN: THE BIGGEST LOSER WOULD BE -- I WANT TO PICK UP ON THE IDEA THAT THE REPUBLICANS IN THIS STATE ARE STAYING ON THE FRINGES.

BILL BARTHOLOMEW TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK.

IT'S NOT LIKE A CRITICISM.

IT'S A REAL CONCERN.

WE NEED A TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.

THEY ARE HANGING OUT ON THE FRINGES, UNDER 100,000 REGISTERED VOTERS.

THEY LOST EACH GREENWICH -- EAST GREENWICH AND OTHER PLACES THEY WERE STRONG.

JIM: AND WE ARE HEADING INTO AN ELECTION YEAR AND THEY STILL DON'T HAVE A GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE.

MAUREEN: THEY HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE, AND I DON'T BLAME BLAKE PHILIPPE HE FOR SAYING HE DOESN'T WANT TO RUN.

JIM: BIGGEST WINNER AND LOSER?

WENDY: BIGGEST WINNER IS DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT HIM.

HE CONTINUES TO INSERT HIMSELF IN NATIONAL AND LOCAL POLITICS AND I THINK THIS COULD CHANGE DRAMATICALLY FOR HIM IN 2022.

SOONER OR LATER, THE YOUNG UP-AND-COMING, OR YOUNGER, TOM DESANTIS, A LOT OF NATIONAL REPUBLICAN FIGURES WHO WANT TO BECOME PRESIDENT WILL MOVE FORWARD IN A SIGNIFICANT WAY AND HE WILL SIDELINE.

SO FAR, HE IS THE BASE LETTER -- WINNER.

THE BIGGEST LOSERS ARE THE HEALTH CARE WORKERS IN RHODE ISLAND AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO HAVE HAD TO DO EXTRAORDINARY THINGS FOR SO LONG WITH NO RELIEF IN SIGHT.

WE OWE THEM A DEBT OF GRATITUDE.

THEY ARE NOT LOSERS BUT THEY ARE THE BIGGEST LOSERS BECAUSE THEY HAVE HAD TO ENDURE MORE THAN ANY OTHER PROFESSIONAL SECTOR.

JIM: BIGGEST WINNER AND LOSER?

IAN: BIGGEST WINNER IS GOVERNOR MCKEE.

WHETHER HE WILL WIN NEXT YEAR IS TO IMAGINE HE WILL COME IN WITH A MORE FORTUITOUS HAND INCLUDING BOATLOADS OF FEDERAL MONEY, THE BEST BUDGET OUTLOOK IN MANY YEARS, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

INCUMBENCY OFFERS A LOT OF ADVANTAGES AS MAUREEN SAID.

GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS SOME CHALLENGES, SOME SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS.

IT WAS A BIG FIELD OF DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR BUT HE HAS A GOOD SHOT AT RETAINING THE OFFICE.

COVID OF COURSE IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE TO WRESTLE WITH.

MY BIGGEST LOSER IS OUR OLD FRIEND THE TRUTH.

IT'S BEEN A TOUGH COUPLE OF YEARS FOR THE TRUTH.

WE IN JOURNALISM LIKE TO SAY YOU CAN CHOOSE YOUR OWN OPINIONS BUT YOU CAN'T CHOOSE YOUR FACTS.

INCREASINGLY, A LOT OF AMERICANS THINK THEY CAN CHOOSE THEIR FACTS.

A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF REPUBLICANS BUY INTO THIS FALSE STORY THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN FROM TRUMP.

THUS VERY WORRISOME.

ASSOCIATED PRESS DID AN INVESTIGATION LOOKING AT POTENTIAL CASES OF VOTER FRAUD IN THE ELECTION IN 2022 AND FOUND UNDER 500 POSSIBLE CASES.

THOSE WERE NOT CONFIRMED CASES.

THAT'S LIKE ONE QUARTER OF 1% OF THE VOTE IN SIX BATTLEGROUND STATES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NECESSARY SO EVEN IF THOSE CASES WERE ALL CONFIRMED, THAT WOULD NOT HAVE MADE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.

WE'VE GOT TO KIND OF COME BACK TO A SHARED SENSE OF THE TRUTH.

WENDY: SOME OF THEM ACTUALLY WERE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP.

VOTER FRAUD CASES ARE NOT DEMOCRATS VOTING FOR BIDEN.

VOTING FOR TRUMP.

JIM: THE ONLY IN RHODE ISLAND MOMENT, WENDY?

WENDY: THE CALAMARI SHORTAGE OVER THE SUMMER.

JIM: THERE WE GO.

STATE APPETIZER.

WENDY: IT WAS MADE FAMOUS AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION BY OUR DELEGATES.

RHODE ISLANDERS HAD TO RATION IT OR PAY MORE FOR IT, SEEMED COMPLETELY SURREAL.

MAUREEN: THAT'S RIGHT.

JIM: THAT IS A GOOD ONE.

IAN: MY STORY WAS THE CASTING CALL FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CANDIDATES LIKE IT WAS SOME KIND OF REALITY TV SHOW.

THERE WERE ABOUT 60 CANDIDATES WHEN IN FACT WE KNEW THERE WERE ONLY A HANDFUL OF SERIOUS CHOICES.

IN THE END, IT MADE PERFECT SENSE THAT GOVERNOR MCKEE CHOSE MATOS AND CHECKS OFF A LOT OF BOXES AS PART OF -- AS FAR AS BEING THE BEST CHOICE BUT EVERYBODY AND THEIR UNCLE THROWING THEIR HAT IN THE RING TO BE THE NEXT HOLDER OF AN OFFICE DOESN'T DO MUCH OF ANYTHING TO BEGIN WITH.

MAUREEN: ONLY IN RHODE ISLAND, THIS YEAR, 2021, JUDGE FRANK CAPRIO GOT AN EMMY NOMINATION FOR HIS SHOW "CAUGHT IN PROVIDENCE."

AND HE'S GOT NATIONAL RECOGNITION BECAUSE OF THAT.

I HAVE A LITTLE ASIDE.

INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION.

I WAS IN INDIA THREE YEARS AGO IN A CITY AND ONE OF THE VENDORS BY THE BUS ASKED WHERE I WAS FROM AND I SAID RHODE ISLAND AND HE SAID, DO YOU KNOW THE JUDGE?

I SAID, WELL, YEAH, I DO.

HE WAS LIKE BUG I'D.

-- BUG-EED.

THE TOUR GUIDE WHO IS EDUCATION -- EDUCATED IN ENGLAND SAID, WE LOVE THAT SHOW.

JIM: I HAD THE SAME THING HAPPEN IN AMSTERDAM TWO YEARS AGO.

YOU KNOW THAT CRAZY JUDGE?

WE KNOW FRANK CAPRIO.

MAUREEN: THAT IS ONLY IN RHODE ISLAND.

JIM: A NOD OF THE HAT THAT OUR COLLEAGUE OVER THE WEEKEND TWEETED, WHEN THEY WERE HANDING OUT THE MARIJUANA LICENSES.

THEY BROUGHT IN A RETIRED FBI AGENT WITH THE BLINDFOLD AND SHORT SLEEVES TO PICK THE BOWLS.

-- BALLS, THE LOTTERY BALLS, SO HE HAD NOTHING UP HIS SLEEVE.

IAN: THAT'S A GOOD ONE.

JIM: WE GET TO GO BACK AND SEE WHAT OUR PANEL PREDICTED THIS YEAR AND SEE IF THEY WERE RIGHT, AND OFFER UP OUR OWN PREDICTIONS.

IAN: I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF 2021 IS THE YEAR WHERE THE LEGISLATURE LEGALIZES RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA AS PART OF A CONVERGENCE OF PROGRESSIVE ISSUES THAT WORK OUT.

I THINK WITH MORE PROGRESSIVES AND WOMEN LAWMAKERS HAVING WON ELECTIONS TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WE WILL SEE MORE ENERGY ON THE PROGRESSIVE SIDE FOR CERTAIN POLICY ISSUES.

JIM: WHAT HAPPENED?

I WILL LET DATE -- WHO IS GOING TO BE MORE STRESSED ON THE HEALTH SYSTEM WAS TO HEARING ABOUT THIS DUE TO TURNOVER IN STAFF.

THERE'S A LOT OF BURNOUT AND IT'S A DIFFICULT SITUATION FOR HEALTH-CARE WORKERS.

MY WIFE IS A HEALTH CARE WORKER, AND THE INTEREST OF FULL DISCLOSURE.

I PREDICT THE MERGER BETWEEN LIVE SPARE CARE NEW ENGLAND AND BROWN DIVERSITY WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH CONDITIONS BROUGHT IN BY STATE AND FEDERAL REGULATORS.

JIM: GOING BACK TO YOUR PREDICTION FOR LAST YEAR, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FULL SESSION WITH EREWHON A.

-- MARIJUANA.

THE GOVERNOR AND THE SENATE PRESIDENT HAVE TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE AND THE PROGRESSIVES ARE BECOMING A FORCE.

IAN: THERE IS A CONVERGENCE OF INTEREST SUPPORTING THIS SOCIETALLY.

PEOPLE ARE A LOT MORE TOLERANT ABOUT MARIJUANA NOW AND AT ONE POINT, IT WOULD BE UNLIKELY TO SEE THIS HAPPEN IN AN ELECTION YEAR BUT BECAUSE IT IS A LOT LESS CONTROVERSIAL IN THE PAST, THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE IT WILL HAPPEN IN 2022.

JIM: ANY OTHER PREDICTIONS?

IAN: BIG GEAR FOR THE RED SOX IN 2022.

JIM: PROFESSOR MOAKLEY.

LET'S SEE WHAT YOU SAID LAST YEAR.

WENDY: I SPENT MY JUNE, THINGS ARE GOING TO BE BACK TO NORMAL BECAUSE THE VACCINE IS REALLY ENCOURAGING.

I ALSO THINK THAT -- WILL BE MADE OF FORCE -- ONCE THE NEW ADMINISTRATION COMES IN HE WILL BE THERE AND A PRESENCE BUT IT IS HOPEFUL THAT HE WILL BE PUT TO THE SIDE AND WON'T BE THE FORCE THAT PEOPLE EXPECT HE WILL BE.

JIM: AND THEN THERE WAS THIS THING CALLED OMICRON.

MAUREEN: RIGHT, EXACTLY.

JIM: YOU WERE KIND OF 50/50.

MAUREEN: WHO KNEW ABOUT OMICRON?

WENDY: WHEN YOU HAVE 70 OR 80 MILLION UNVACCINATED PEOPLE AND GLOBALLY MORE THAN A BILLION UNVACCINATED PEOPLE, IT IS A HOST FOR THE VIRUS TO REPLICATE AND MUTATE.

THAT'S WHY GETTING VACCINATED IS IMPORTANT.

IT PREVENTS THAT POPULATION OF THE VIRUS FROM BECOMING SOMETHING LIKE OMICRON.

NOW WE SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DON'T HAVE UNIVERSAL VACCINATION.

MAUREEN: MY PREDICTION NATIONALLY, I WILL BE CONSERVATIVE.

I THINK THE DEMOCRATS WILL LOSE THE HOUSE AND POSSIBLY THE SENATE AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE MARRED DONE ON THE DOMESTIC SIDE -- MORE DONE ON THE DOMESTIC SIDE.

THERE'S A LOT OF FOREIGN POLICY ISSUES BIDEN WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

LOCALLY, I'M OPTIMISTIC ABOUT HOW THE LEADERSHIP IN THIS STATE AND HOW WE WILL USE FEDERAL FUNDS.

THEY SEEM TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE AND I EXPECT REALLY INTERESTING AND POSSIBLY TRANSFORMATIVE POLICY ON HOUSING AND TRANSPORTATION.

JIM: THE PROBLEM IS THERE ARE A LOT OF COOKS IN THE KITCHEN.

I HAVE THE GOVERNOR AND THE SENATE PRESIDENT THE SPEAKER HERE.

HOW DO YOU NARROW IT DOWN?

ORTON ATLEE, THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF MONEY.

WENDY -- FORTUNATELY, THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF MONEY.

WENDY.

WENDY: FOR 2021, I AGREE THAT RHODE ISLAND WILL MOVE MORE COHERENTLY AND SMOOTHLY IN A PROGRESSIVE DIRECTION AND THE OPPOSITE WILL HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES HOUSE WITH DEMOCRATS.

IT IS INCREDIBLY TIGHT WITH FIVE SEATS.

IT IS INCREDIBLY PRECARIOUS.

PROGRESSIVES LED BY AOC DON'T SHOW ANY SIGNS OF SLOWING DOWN AND I THINK IT WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR DEMOCRATS.

I THINK THEY WILL BE FRACTURED AND I WONDER IF IT WILL START TO HURT THEM GOING INTO 2022.

JIM: IF YOU PLAY THE LOTTERY, CAN YOU GIVE ME NUMBERS?

WENDY: I WANT TO REMIND VIEWERS, THE YEAR BEFORE MY PREDICTIONS WERE TERRIBLE.

JIM: IT IS LIKE BATTING, 1-3.

WENDY: THE DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE AND THE PROGRESSIVES HAVE SEEN WHAT THE MORE RIGHT WING PROGRESSIVES -- RIGHT-WING REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE AND THEY HAVE TAKEN OVER THE PARTY.

OLDER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE FROM THE SOUTH AND MIDWES SEE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET THEIR PLATFORM TO BE THE DOMINANT PLATFORM FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE PLAYBOOK OF REPUBLICANS WHETHER -- PLAYBOOK OF REPUBLICANS.

WHETHER IT WORKS IN THE LONG RUN, WE WILL SEE.

THE ADMINISTRATION HAS GOTTEN A LOT DONE THAT WILL HELP PEOPLE IN THE NEXT COMING YEARS.

THERE ARE STILL REMAINING THINGS TO BE DONE, THE PROGRESSIVES WILL ARGUE WE CANNOT GET IT DONE, GIVE US MORE POWER AND WE WILL GET IT DONE.

MOBILIZING THE PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT THEIR AGENDA WHO TEND TO BE YOUNGER IS HARD TO DO IN MIDTERM ELECTIONS SO I DON'T SEE THEM BEING SUCCESSFUL, BUT I SEE THEM VERY -- BEING VERY INFLUENTIAL IN 2024.

JIM: YOUR PREDICTION?

WENDY: COVID WILL BECOME MUCH MORE LIKE A SERIOUS FLU THAT WE WILL HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT FOR PEOPLE WITH IMMUNE COMPROMISED SYSTEMS.

IN THE NEXT SIX TO NINE MONTHS WE WILL MAKE A TRANSITION FROM BEING VERY PANICKED TO UNDERSTANDING THIS WILL BE A PROBLEM FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

WE WILL HAVE TO GET A YEARLY SHOT BUT IT WILL EVENTUALLY TRANSITION TO THAT AND PROBABLY WILL REPLACE OUR FLU.

I THINK WE WILL SEE HISTORIC RATES OF RETIREMENT.

THE 4 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE RETIRED AND LEFT THE WORKFORCE ARE OVER THE AGE OF 55 AND YOU WILL SEE MORE OF THOSE, WHICH WILL PUT PRESSURES ON THINGS LIKE 60 TWO-YEAR-OLD PEOPLE TAKING SOCIAL SECURITY, PEOPLE TRYING TO PUSH FOR MEDICARE FOR ALL OR LOWERING THE AGE FOR MEDICARE.

STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS AS PEOPLE RETIRE EARLIER.

JIM: THAT IS A MOUTHFUL.

AS I SAID, DAVE LAYMAN IS NOT WITH US BUT HE IS HERE IN SPIRIT AND ON TAPE.

LET'S SEE WHAT HE SAID FOR 2021.

DAVE: I THINK THE FAMED TOWER, THE 46 STORY BUILDING IS IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.

THEY'VE BEEN PLAGUED BY DELAYS.

THEY'VE PRODUCED THE IDEA THERE HAVE BEEN DEADLINES MISSED.

YOU THROW IN A RECESSION, I WONDER IF THIS TOWER IS GOING TO BECOME A REALITY AND I THINK THIS MAY BE THE YEAR WHERE WE HAVE SOME CLARITY BECAUSE THERE IS AN AWFUL LOT OF ATTENTION AND THIS LAWSUIT.

JIM: YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF COVERAGE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING?

DEADLINES WERE EXTENDED.

IAN: DAVE'S COMMENTS ARE WORTH NOTING AND AT THE SAME TIME, THERE HAS BEEN A SLOWING DOWN OF A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT IN A LOT OF PLACES.

THIS PROJECT IS STILL POSSIBLE.

IT COULD STILL MOVE FORWARD BUT THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

BEEN AMONG THE REPORTERS 12 HAS FOLLOWING THIS.

FROM HIS REPORTING, I GET THE SENSE THAT THIS STILL COULD HAPPEN.

WE ARE SEEING MORE GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA IN NEARBY PROVIDENCE SO IT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE THE OUTCOME.

JIM: I HAD A CHAT WITH DAVE BEFORE HE LEFT FOR OVERSEAS AND WE SAT DOWN TO GET HIS PREDICTION.

DAVE: I THINK 2022 IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH YEAR FOR GOVERNOR DAN MCKEE AND PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

I THINK IT WILL BE THE WORST YEAR IN THE LIFE OF DONALD TRUMP .

THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS IN VERY SERIOUS TROUBLE WITH ALL KINDS OF INVESTIGATIONS.

IF HE DOES GET CHARGED, HE WILL BE THE FIRST FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT EVER TO BE CRIMINALLY CHARGED.

THIS MAY ALSO TOTALLY AFFECT THE WAY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BEGINS TO REACT TO IT.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME STEPPING AWAY FROM HIM AS IT IS BUT IT MAY BE WHOLESALE BEFORE IT IS ALL OVER.

THERE ARE SO MANY INVESTIGATIONS IN WASHINGTON, THE JANUARY 6 INVESTIGATION, MORE COMING OUT, A GRAND JURY IN NEW YORK INVESTIGATING HIS BUSINESS DEALINGS AND ANOTHER INVESTIGATION IN NEW YORK BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE STATE.

AN INVESTIGATION IN GEORGIA, HE'S UNDER INVESTIGATION BECAUSE OF HIS ALLEGED TAMPERING WITH THE ELECTION TO TRY TO REVERSE THE TOTALS SO THAT HE WOULD BE THE PRESIDENT.

OF COURSE THERE ARE THE LAWSUITS .

DROP IS FACING A NUMBER OF LAWSUITS FROM FORMER BUSINESS PARTNERS, HIS OWN NIECE, AND CAPITOL POLICE OFFICERS SO I THINK IT WILL BE A MIGHTY TOUGH YEAR FOR DONALD TRUMP.

JIM: DAVE HAD A GREAT LINE, HE DID TWO TAKES AND IT DIDN'T MAKE IT IN THE SECOND LINE.

HE SAID THE ORANGE MAN MIGHT WIND UP IN THE ORANGE JUMPSUIT.

MAUREEN: THAT IS A GREAT LINE.

JIM: YOU HAVE YOUR EYE ON NEW YORK AND YOUR WHOLE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE STATE AND FEDERAL PROSECUTOR.

WHAT DO YOU THINK FOR TRUMP?

WENDY: I THOUGHT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS STILL RUNNING FOR -- WHICH MEANS SHE WILL PUT HER ENERGY INTO THIS.

THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND ATTORNEY GENERAL SHOWED NO SIGNS OF BACKING OFF AND IT IS ABOUT TAXES AND A LONG HISTORY OF THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION NOT PAYING TAXES, MULTIPLE DECADES.

WHETHER THEY GET DONALD TRUMP PER SE, WE ARE NOT SURE, BUT THEY PROBABLY WILL BRING DOWN THE ORGANIZATION WHICH HE'S ALREADY BEGUN TO DISMANTLE.

HE MOVED TO FLORIDA AND THE TRUMP HOTEL IN D.C. WILL BE SOLD .

THERE ARE PIECES OF HIS EMPIRE THAT WILL BE SOLD OFF AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS TO HIM PERSONALLY.

JIM: WHAT EFFECT DO YOU THINK THE JANUARY 6 COMMISSION WILL HAVE?

REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO PAINT IT AS PARTISAN BUT MORE THAT COMES OUT, THE TEXT MESSAGES DON'T LIE, MARK MEADOWS AND ALL THAT.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WILL FIND BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

SOME REPUBLICANS WILL NOT LISTEN TO ANY OF IT, RIGHT?

MAUREEN: I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE PROFOUND AND A CRITICAL JUNCTURE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

THIS GUY TRIED TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION.

WENDY: AND HE WAS AIDED AND ABETTED BY SITTING CONGRESSPEOPLE WHO SWEAR AN OATH TO THE CONGRESS -- CONSTITUTION AND IT IS TREASON.

MAUREEN: NOT ONLY, MARK MEADOWS, THEY WERE SITTING DOWN, THIS WAS PLANNED FOR MONTHS RIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION.

IT IS REALLY DISTURBING AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DEMOCRACY, THIS IS A REAL THREAT.

JIM: THE FLIPSIDE IS HOW REPUBLICANS ARE PUTTING A LOT OF CHANGES ACROSS THE NATION AND TRYING TO CREATE A MORE ADVANTAGEOUS FIELD IF THINGS CAME DOWN WITH A DISPUTED ELECTION AGAIN.

THAT'S THE FLIPSIDE OF THIS INVESTIGATIVE ACTIVITY.

THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE, BUT WE ARE NOT DONE YET.

WE HAVE PEOPLE TO WATCH IN 2022.

GO TO RIPBS.COM/LIVELY.

THANK YOU WE APPRECIATE YOUR VIEWS.

WE WILL BE HERE IN 202 WITH ALL THE LATEST.

JOIN US AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

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VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HAYES AND WHITE JUNIOR.

FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, WE HAVE PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE