- [Jim] Coming up on this week's A Lively Experiment, it's our annual Year in Review program, a chance to look back at the good, the bad, and the ugly in Rhode Island in 2024.

And our panel offers some predictions for 2025.

- [Narrator] A Lively Experiment is generously underwritten by.

- Hi, I'm John Hazen White Jr. For over 30 years, A Lively Experiment has provided insight and analysis of the political issues that face Rhode Islanders.

I'm a proud supporter of this great program in Rhode Island PBS.

- [Narrator] Joining us with their musings, Boston Globe Reporter and Rhode Island PBS Weekly contributor, Steph Machado, Brown University Political Science Professor, Wendy Schiller, and Ian Donnis, political reporter for The Public's Radio.

Welcome to Lively, I'm Jim Hummel, and it's great to have you with us for our last program of 2024.

There were plenty of highlights and lowlights the past 12 months, so we asked our panel to rewind the tape and give us their top choices for a handful of categories and some predictions for next year, which we'll get to a little later.

So welcome to all.

Steph, we welcome you.

You knew this year, Maureen Moakley, who was a normal panelist, could not join us this year.

So Steph, welcome.

We'll get to you in just a second.

You know what, we'll start with Ian and show you how it's done.

- Sounds good.

- Ian, top local story.

- Well, if you hated the state banking crisis, and if 38 Studios drove you nuts, then the Washington Bridge Saga is the latest edition of the late Pantheon of Boondoggles that drove Rhode Islanders mad in 2024.

It's clearly a tough issue for Governor McKee.

He and DOT director, Peter Alviti, say the state is now on the right track, but we're already bleeding into the next campaign for Governor.

McKee says he's gonna run for reelection.

We'll see if he follow through on that.

And it's just been a bitter issue for Rhode Islanders who've spent a lot of time in traffic.

It's something that hits people where they live, or where they drive, and that's always a tough thing to respond to politically.

- And we wonder if we're gonna be talking that as the top story for next year.

We shall see.

What do you have for top local story?

- It's the bridge, Jim.

Yeah, that there wasn't even anything that came close to the Washington Bridge for the top story of the year.

It affects every sector of society, obviously the drivers, but business, politics.

It's gonna cost a lot of money to build a new one.

We will see if the cyber attack replaces it as the top story in 2025.

That's probably the story that comes the closest, although it's only been a few days of that story, so, but it's the bridge this year, - A year ago as you were thinking about that, 'cause they said at first it was gonna be, you know, a couple of weeks to get it redone, or maybe March, and then whatever.

Did you think in the time this is gonna go on a lot longer than we think?

- I definitely thought it was going to be a gigantic story in 2024.

I did not think it was gonna only take three weeks to get it back open.

And just the sheer, I couldn't even imagine that this primary artery that is used to get to Providence from the East Bay could be closed at all, nevermind for three weeks, nevermind for years.

And obviously, they have the highway open on the other side, but I didn't think it was gonna take as long as it seems like it's gonna take.

- [Jim] Wendy, top local story.

- Well, it is the bridge, but I'll say the story is that Rhode Islanders have been very inconvenienced, but also adaptable and flexible, and got used to traffic patterns, and sort of timed things a certain way, and have come to live with it.

And we have other cities that surround us like Boston, where the traffic is atrocious every minute of the day, practically.

And so now we're living a little bit more like a metropolitan city with difficulties that probably could have been avoided, but at least we showed resilience and we showed a flexibility, and we're coping with it.

And I think that is part of the story.

- You gotta admit, it's pretty rich, though, for the airport to be promoting itself with a commercial saying, "Don't spend time in Boston traffic," when we're spending time in a lot more traffic around here.

- [Jim] It is a little rich.

- [Wendy] Well, except for the trek.

- I think every time I see that commercial, I'm like, "It's gonna take you a lot..." - Yeah, but the traffic, it was terrible when it first started, but it's still nothing like Boston, I mean, it's nothing.

- [Jim] Yeah, Boston all the time.

- No comparison.

- All right, let's go to top national story.

Steph, let's begin with you, top national story.

- I'm gonna go with when Donald Trump was shot.

I think that was such a huge story that changed the entire election.

And you know, I will the moment at the RNC when he came out, I mean, it's a big deal regardless for former president to have an attempted assassination.

But when he came out the RNC with the bandage and they sang, was it, "Proud to be an American," and the Republicans, it seemed like that was the moment when they really coalesced around him.

And that was when he, I mean, that was when Joe Biden was still in the race.

But I still thought that that was the moment that Trump won the election, and it was a huge story for that to have happened.

- Interesting, top national story for you, Wen.

- I actually think that Trump, I disagree on the timing of it.

I think that the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago on the documents case was probably the turning point for the Trump campaign, because even no matter what you think of the fact that he did something that does technically break the law, he's a former president of the United States.

He was duly elected, and you know, storming his house at 6:00 in the morning over documents seemed, to me, excessive.

And I think it sort of reaffirmed the narrative about the FBI and law enforcement, and witch hunts, and I think it started the positive momentum for Donald Trump.

- Do you have a top, or was that all of it?

- [Wendy] Yeah, I mean I think that's... - That was the beginning of it.

- That's the beginning of it, and I think Donald Trump is the story of 2024.

- [Jim] Okay, Ian.

- My top national is the comeback of Donald Trump who looked like he was facing very tough skating a couple of years ago.

I think he's a unique figure in American politics because of his celebrity.

He had a checkered business career, but his reputation was really elevated by being the star of The Apprentice for many years.

You can't buy that kind of publicity, and I think despite his wild and outrageous pronouncements, I think a lot of Americans just have a comfort level with him because he's been on their television for decades, and he's been part of their brain space for decades.

And Democrats were unable to respond effectively, even though one of their own reports warned, about a year or or so ago, that their brand was very damaged in the de-industrialized states like Michigan and Pennsylvania that were vital for the election.

- Just quickly, I wonder if you think if any of those four cases had been prosecuted a little earlier, a lot of people were critical of Merrick Garland that, look, you could have gotten going on this maybe two years earlier.

They wouldn't have said election interference.

And if he had been convicted, that might have changed to the tenure of the race.

What do you think about that?

- It might have, but I think the time to have gone after Donald Trump for, you know, obstruction of justice or inciting violence was after January 6th.

I think that was the clearest, most direct.

- [Jim] And fresh.

- And fresh, direct connection that you could make.

It was really an affront to the Constitution.

And if you couldn't make the case then, the Republicans chose not to do that in the impeachment process, and the Constitution doesn't give a lot of leeway to go prosecute a president.

That was the moment to do it.

And because they didn't do it then, I think waiting so long hurt them even more in their efforts to hold 'em accountable.

- Okay, let's do, we're gonna do biggest winner and biggest loser together.

This can be national, local, whatever you want, and we'll put 'em together.

Wendy, biggest winner, biggest Loser.

- I mean, again, I think the biggest winner is clearly Donald Trump.

It's unclear whether the Republican, National Republican Party is a big winner, or just Donald Trump.

That remains to be seen 'cause they didn't do any better in the house.

In fact, they're gonna end up with one seat less than the House of Representatives in the majority.

So that is really, you know, that's something really curious.

- [Jim] And the Senate was expected, right, to take them back.

- The Senate was expected.

They picked up an extra seat.

They won the seat in Pennsylvania, and that was a surprise.

But generally speaking, the coattails were not as long as I think I would've expected.

And the biggest, you know, loser, is clearly Joe Biden, not because, I mean, just because he was thrown out of his job by his own party and it was done, I think really rudely as an understatement.

I think it was, you know, I think the party showed him extraordinary disrespect in the way that they toppled him.

And at the end of the day, Kamala Harris, who I thought would do better than she did, probably didn't do any better than Joe Biden would've done.

- But don't you think Biden could have, I mean if Biden had one job to do, was that to beat Donald Trump and he did that, if he had said two years into his term, okay, let's develop the bench now.

- Yeah, he could have said that he wasn't gonna run much earlier, and then there would've been a proper primary, and the voters would've been able to pick the nominee.

- [Jim] Did you think about that too?

- I totally agree.

I mean, I think you don't have to be a political scientist like Wendy to think that Biden sandbagged Democrats' efforts to hold the White House.

- Oh, so I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that I don't think so.

He was the leader of the free world and the leader of his own party.

And if you step aside too early, you're a lame duck far too early.

- That is true, that is true.

- And he got a lot done.

I mean, not just the Chips Act, but Build Back Better, and the Inflation Reduction Act, very badly named.

But I think he did a lot in his legislative record.

And I don't think he should have stepped aside.

- However, like his predecessor in the Democratic Party, President Obama, he did a lousy job selling his accomplishments, to the point where many voters had no idea what he had done and had a very low approval rating for him.

- I don't disagree with that, but the country itself, five to 10 years from now, for all God willing alive and well to see, I think will have benefited greatly from those policies, so that yes, Democrats don't sell nearly as well as Republicans, but he didn't, you know, he's not trying to destroy the government or unravel it.

He tried to make it more efficient and help workers, and that that communication strategy failed.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have stepped aside, but I don't think he should have stepped aside as early as possibly other people think.

- Okay, biggest winner, biggest loser.

Ian, what do you have?

- My biggest winner is House Speaker, Joe Shekarchi.

The Rhode Island Senate has been a kind of cranky place in recent years.

Governor McKee faces a lot of headaches.

Meanwhile, the House of Representatives is very Pacific under Shekarchi's leadership.

His members like him.

He gets along well with the Republicans.

He's sitting on $3 million plus in his campaign account.

He could be very well poised for a run for governor if Governor McKee decides not to seek reelection, and Shekarchi is my winner.

My biggest loser is the generations of public officials in Rhode Island who have failed the school children of Providence by failing to make meaningful gains in improving the quality of Providence schools.

There was a consensus about 25 years ago that this was a vital issue for the future of the state, the state's economy, and there has been meager progress, and there's a lot of blame to go around for that, but it's pretty appalling.

- Steph, biggest winner, biggest loser?

- All right, I went just local for this.

- Okay.

- Biggest winner is the Independent Man.

- Oh, the Independent Man!

- He got the best press of of anyone at the Rhode Island State House.

- Who do think this is public relations firm?

- This year, I don't know, but they're good.

And he got better press than anyone at the State House this year, and he returned to his perch right in time for the new year.

- That's great, and you think of all the people.

So I went after Lively one day, they were saying, you know, "You better see him because he is gonna go into storage."

And I went and there were like, they're like dozens of people there, and I... - Did you see the guestbook?

- I asked, I saw the guestbook, I asked the capitol policeman who I knew.

I said, "Are these people here for a rally?"

"No, they're here for the Independent Man."

- Here to see the Man, I know!

- And I was lucky to see him before he went out.

- I know, he was the most popular man in Rhode Island this year.

- [Jim] Biggest loser.

- Okay, I'm gonna go with Senate majority leader, Ryan Pearson, or I should say former senate majority leader.

You know, he had this long running back and forth with the Senate president.

I think a lot of people thought he was gonna be the Senate president one day, until he had this rift with Senate President Ruggiero.

He was unsuccessful.

He's been ousted now as the majority leader, and he was unsuccessful in stopping Ruggiero from getting elected again as Senate president.

And now we'll see if he's in Siberia, or what his sort of position will be.

He's still a senator, of course, in the upcoming session.

- Do you think his parking spot will be in South Providence?

What do you think?

You can get a spot in the lot?

- Well, you know, if your parking lot is far away, you at least get your steps in.

- There you go.

She's always looking at the positive.

Alright, one of my favorite categories, the only in Rhode Island moment.

Ian, let's begin with you.

- Well Jim, I'm old enough to remember when William Bulger was the president of the Massachusetts Senate and his brother, Whitey Bulger, was a top mobster in South Boston.

Here in Providence, we have a situation where a nephew of the police chief, Oscar Perez, was, it's the nephew who was convicted and recently sentenced for being the kingpin in a massive fentanyl running operation.

Federal prosecutors say there's no sign of any link between the misbehaving nephew and his two relations in the Providence Police Department.

But that's still an only in Rhode Island story.

- [Jim] Yeah, Steph, what do you have?

- Well, we seem to be sort of cursed with December debacle.

And so I think the fact that almost exactly one year after the Washington Bridge shut down, we had another major crisis in this cyber attack, the details of which are still unfolding, and it's called RI Bridges.

- [Jim] I know!

- I don't wanna make light of it because it's such a bad story that's gonna impact so many people, but the fact that it has bridge in the name is just, this is only in Rhode Island.

- But don't you also think in Rhode Island too, because like there are people like me who still call it the Newport Bridge.

They don't call it the Pell Bridge.

- Sure.

- People still call it UHIP, right?

Aren't there a lot of people, do you think everybody, the whole marketing campaign was... - I guess if you use it, you probably call it Healthy Rhode 'cause that's the website you go to.

- [Jim] Is that what it is?

- I think that's the website you go to.

- [Jim] R-H-O-D, or?

- Yeah, of course.

Oh - [Jim] Oh, please.

- Yeah, so you know, I think people call it whatever website they go to to log into their account is probably what they call it.

- Wow, what do you have for the only in Rhode Island?

- Well, mine's a little bit of a different story.

So we know on the east side, we've had a lot of changes, a lot of things closed, and in East Side Market, for example, to go stop and shop took it over and then closed it.

And so another store in that parking lot is, has created a popup where it's on Saturday, and they have like music and food trucks and they're selling things, local goods, and it's funny because, and it was packed, and I thought this is only in Rhode Island, where everyone's used to going to East Side Market maybe on the Saturday and it's gone there, huge parking lot.

So somebody else comes in and basically, it's like a block party in a parking lot.

And I thought this really strikes me as only in Rhode Island, so that's my only in Rhode Island.

- Are they getting repeat business, or do you think it was the people who showed up, and they thought that the store was still open?

- No, no, I was one of those people who was a repeat show up and there were people there the whole time, and like it was, and a porta-potty, it was everything.

It was very Rhode Island, I thought, to me.

And, but I wanna say also another loser in Rhode Island and possibly City of Providence is of course, the Providence Place Mall, which has anchored a lot of things, our hotel business, lots of new hotels, and thinking about how that was controversial when it was first created, but how people thought it would be an anchor for Rhode Island.

And you can see other shopping malls like Garden City, let's say, or maybe even Warwick Mall, doing better.

And that's a big story I think that will unfold in '25.

And sort of is that urban development?

Is that mistaken management?

Is that Covid?

What happened?

But I think it's a big story.

- Let's not get to the predictions too quickly, Wendy.

You're jumping the gun here.

All right, this is another of my favorite part of the program.

We roll the tape from last year.

We keep the tape for years and years and years.

We only went back a year, so let's see what Ian predicted last year.

We'll react to that and then get his prediction for 2025.

- 2024 will feature legislative elections in Rhode Island.

I think the partisan makeup of the General Assembly will remain much as it is now with Republicans holding only nine of 113 seats between the House and the Senate.

I think the national GOP has been kind of a drag on the fortunes of Republicans here in Rhode Island, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

One other prediction, I think the state is very slowly starting to come to terms with some of the long-term challenges it faces in terms of healthcare and hospitals.

Attorney General, Peter Neronha, has been banging a drum on that.

The sale will get more consideration in 2024.

The Centurion out of Georgia is looking to buy the parent of Roger Williams Medical Center in Providence, and Fatima Hospital in North Providence, two big employers and two big local taxpayers, and they're gang starved for money right now by their current owner.

So I think you will start to see state officials pay some more attention to this with the Rhode Island Foundation doing a study on possible solutions to some of Rhode Island's long-term health challenges.

- Of course, you've been on the hospital beat for a long time, but who would've thought that one lifespan would take two of the ailing hospitals in Massachusetts, and then that Brown would come in and now it's Brown Health?

- Right, yeah, and of course, Massachusetts has the added benefit of paying higher reimbursement rates than hospitals and providers get here in Rhode Island.

So that's significant.

But I think there will be continue to be questions about the Centurion Foundation's acquisition of the former charter care hospitals, Roger Williams and Fatima, because these hospitals have been losing money for years, and Centurion hopes to finance this deal with debt.

It's unclear how they'll be able to pay back that debt if the hospitals are losing money.

In terms of the legislature, I misspoke last year on the number of GOP lawmakers.

I should have said a total of 14.

At the time, it was nine in the house and five in the Senate.

But I was correct in predicting treading water because now with elections this year, there will be 10 Republicans in the house, and four in the Senate.

So the number remains constant at 14.

- Duly noted.

Do you have predictions for 2025?

- Yes, my predictions are that tamping down prices and inflation will be more difficult than president-elect Trump suggested during the campaign, and also that I'm a little more gloomy on the outlook for making progress on some of those thorny issues, complex issues in Rhode Island, like healthcare and housing.

I think there can be incremental future, but it's gonna be a long slog to make meaningful improvement on those.

- Quick question, will the palace shelters be open?

- That's anyone's guess.

- [Jim] We can only hope.

- Probably on the beautiful day in June.

- Yeah, probably.

Alright, let's get to Wendy's prediction for this year from last year, and then we'll get hers for 2025.

We'll roll it.

- I predict, going out on a limb here, I predict that Kamala Harris will not be the candidate alongside Joe Biden for a president in 2024.

- [Jim] Really?

- She'll stay vice president, but I think those poll numbers could get very, very difficult for Biden in some key swing states.

And he might turn to someone like either Gretchen Whitmer, who's been reluctant but very popular in Michigan, or Raphael Warnock of Georgia.

There's nobody on the ticket in Georgia in 2024, and that's a real problem for the Democrats.

There's no African American on the ticket.

And if he were on the ticket, you'd lose a Senate seat potentially.

However, you would gain turnout.

You might win Georgia, win Michigan, you'd win Pennsylvania, potentially.

I think it would drive African American voters up to the polls, and you could even be more competitive in Ohio.

So I see Biden, if things don't turn around by early spring, making a change, and by the way, he can still, the Democratic party can still nominate somebody other than Biden at the convention.

So you have until the convention, and then states print their ballots.

So if the state, if you get that nominee done that's not Biden before the convention's over, in other words, you nominate somebody else, those state ballots will get printed with a new name.

- Well, well, we talked about that a lot last year, and it wasn't quite the script you expected, but... - No, it's 50 figure.

That's a 50/50 production.

So I was right that she was not vice president alongside Biden, and I was right that it was somebody other than Biden.

What struck me as so surprising about my assumptions in that prediction was the African American vote.

Now in the end of the day, Donald Trump picked up between two and 3% of the African American vote.

That's it.

You know, the narrative is, oh, he did so much better among black voters.

He didn't, but there was... - [Jim] What about Latinos?

- Latinos, I think it was 49% of Latino men, but Latinos, the majority of Latinos voted for Kamala Harris.

So Latino voting has, you know, Republicans in the past, George Bush got 44% of the Latino vote.

Donald Trump did just about the same or a little bit better.

So Republicans have done well in the past with Latino voters.

But I was surprised about the low turnout for an African American women.

And so I think to myself, well, there was high black turnout for Barack Obama, and lower turnout for Kamala Harris.

That could have been a lot of things associated with the Democrats, but there could be still some reluctance to vote for a woman for president, and I think that intersected with Kamala Harris' campaign.

Plus, you know, 74% going the country's direction is in the wrong direction, is tough to overcome.

So I what I was surprised, because there was enthusiasm when she got nominated, and it just seemed to dissipate.

And the Democrat party was very progressive on a lot of issues, and Latino voters typically are not as progressive.

However, Latino voting turnout is about 48 to 50% of all registered voters.

So, you know, I don't think it's just Latinos that swung the election for Donald Trump.

It was a combination of lower turnout and also voters who are independent, who were white voters in 2020 who rejected Trump, went back to Trump, and that was also surprising.

- Do you have a prediction for 2025?

- In so many ways.

- [Jim] We're rolling the tape, you know, right?

- I don't think when we tape next year that Donald Trump's approval rating will be anywhere close to 54%.

That's normal.

You know, you have a honeymoon period and it goes, and I do believe that Donald Trump will break up with Elon Musk, you know, by the summer.

- Okay, and that's it?

Nothing more?

- Well, I could say that I think Helena Buonanno Foulkes is probably gonna get in the race for Governor.

But I think there's a little bit of a dance between Shekarchi and Foulkes to see who might challenge McKee in the primary, if McKee still stays in the race.

- Okay, as I had said before, Maureen Moakley could not join us this year, but let's hear what her predictions are, and then we'll get Steph's predictions for 2025.

Here's what Maureen had to say on this set a year ago.

- My prediction for 2024 at the local level is we're gonna have a good year.

I think we're gonna be fiscally sound.

I also think, I think there's gonna be some prosperity.

And I also think thanks to our federal and our state legislature, that we're gonna have some good policy options, and some good politics going on.

We have in Rhode Island the least polarized state legislature in the country.

And I think with Shekarchi at the wheel, I think it's gonna be a good year as far as policy is concerned, and I think it's gonna be a good year as far as prosperity.

At the international level, it's gonna be a crisis of multi proportions, as far as the war in Israel and Hamas, as the fighting with the Russians and the war in Ukraine, and the problems on the border.

Biden's gotta get an immigration deal.

But I really think those kinds of things are gonna be really serious and important.

- Yeah, I'm gonna be looking to see how the new Trump administration, he's got bonfires everywhere that he needs to put out.

Steph, predictions for 2025.

- Okay, I am nervous that you're gonna play this next year, but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

- [Jim] You've been in television for how many years?

- So, okay, 12?

So I think that there's gonna be a big fight about rent control in the city of Providence.

City Council wants it, the mayor does not.

I think that fight is, we're gonna see that showdown in 2025.

I think Hasbro's gonna leave the state.

I say this with such hesitancy because I don't really know, but that's the point of predictions.

We're trying to guess.

I think we're gonna get a decision on the Superman building.

Either the project is dead, or there's going to be a new deal re-negotiated, but it doesn't seem like anything's happening with that project at the moment.

And then I guess I'm gonna predict that RI Bridges will get a third name.

It was already renamed from UHIP.

That was such a catastrophe that they gave it a new name and rebranded it.

I think it gets a third name in 2025.

- You're coming in hot with a whole bucket of predictions.

- Usually it's one or two.

She's got a whole list there!

- Yeah, I don't wanna be wishy-washy.

I'm gonna make my predictions, and if I'm wrong, please call me out.

- What did you say, it's online, it's Healthy Rhodes?

- Well no, that's the website.

There's a website that you go to to sign up.

- [Jim] Maybe that'll be the third one, Healthy Rhodes.

- May, we'll see what happens.

- But more apartments are coming online and we'll open up in 2025.

So it's gonna be interesting to see how that supply, that additional supply of new apartments, there's building a lot in Providence, affects the debate and the discussion about rent control.

And also interest rates and development.

You know, the Feds lowered interest rates a little bit, but said, listen, we're probably not gonna do this much in 2025.

So borrowing costs will remain relatively high, and if there are tariffs at the federal level, then supply chain and building costs are really gonna skyrocket, 'cause we import so much of our materials.

So you're gonna see a lot of external shocks that might affect that conversation.

- Yeah, and remember, Biden had said he was gonna propose rent control, but he didn't win the election.

He didn't even end up being the nominee.

But it definitely seems like it became like a little bit more of a mainstream idea.

- [Jim] Idea.

- When Biden said he was gonna propose it.

- Superman has been really quiet, and you would think if they're not gonna make it work, are they gonna come back for another ask?

But we haven't heard any of that, right?

- Yeah, it's been very quiet.

And the, you know, the interest rate climate has made it difficult to proceed with that, but it's been just a void in Rhode Island for a long time.

- Just quickly, people to watch in 2025?

- Like I said, locally, I'm looking to see if Helena Buonanno Foulkes gets in the race, and looking which car she's... - [Jim] Do you think the CVS, opioid thing is gonna put gum on her shoe?

- You know, she's had a new explanation for that, about what she did when she was running the company.

And so we'll see if that flies with voters.

So I'm looking, on this level, I'm looking at that, and then I'm gonna start to look at the Republican House and see who survives the next month, or six months, to see who might be the new speaker.

- What are you looking at in people to watch?

- People to watch, State Representative, David Morales.

Very progressive but pragmatic, gets along well with the house leadership, a prospective future candidate for Mayor.

Val Lawson, the incoming maturity leader in the Rhode Island Senate, and possible future president of the Senate.

And of course our former governor, Gina Raimondo, who will be leaving her job as Commerce Secretary.

I don't think she's gonna run for Governor, although as I reported, she was exploring that, and it bears to watch what she does next.

- 30 seconds.

- I had all those people on my list, so I'm gonna go with Providence Place Mall.

- [Jim] Ditto, ditto, ditto.

- Receivers, because I think I'm supposed to pick a person.

The future of the mall is going to have a massive impact on downtown Providence, whether it shuts down, whether it gets sold and turns into something really fun and is attracting people.

It really matters if the mall lives or dies, so I'm gonna watch that.

- Alright, all that's great.

Boy, we packed an hour into 30 minutes today.

Thank you, Ian.

Great to see you, Steph and Wendy.

Great panelists throughout the years.

And folks, thank you for your loyalty to this program.

We love bringing it to ya every week.

Join us back here next week.

We'll have a reporter's panel looking at the legislative session for 2025.

We'll be here every week with you right through until next year when we do our predictions and rewind the ones from this year.

We hope you have a great Christmas and Hanukkah.

Join us back here next week as A Lively Experiment continues.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] A Lively Experiment is generously underwritten by.

- Hi, I'm John Hazen White Jr. For over 30 years, A Lively Experiment has provided insight and analysis of the political issues that face Rhode Islanders.

I'm a proud supporter of this great program in Rhode Island PBS.