[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] >> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

MEMBERS OF THE STATE'S LARGEST EMPLOYEE UNION ARE IN LINE FOR A $3000 VACCINATION BONUS.

WITH IT, POLITICAL BLOWBACK FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE.

COMING TO A PHONE NEAR YOU, VACCINATION PASSPORTS.

WE WILL TELL YOU WHAT THE MINISTRATION HAS IN MIND.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY APPEARED >> OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT ON POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM ON RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US ON THE PANEL, DAVE LAYMAN.

A CONSULTANT AND FORMER TELEVISION NEWS ANCHOR.

ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST LOU PULNER, AND FORMER CRANSTON MAYOR ALLAN FUNG.

WELCOME TO LIVELY, I AM JIM HUMMEL.

THE TIMING COULD NOT HAVE BEEN WORSE FROM A PUBLIC RELATIONS STANDPOINT.

NEWS LEAKED THE DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING FOR THE MCKEE ADMINISTRATION'S PLAN TO GIVE VACCINE BONUSES FOR THOSE WHO GET VACCINATED AS PART OF A NEW FOUR-YEAR CONTRACT.

THE GOVERNOR WAS ON VACATION, LEAVING HIS CRITICS TO HAVE A FIELD DAY WITH THE PROPOSAL.

ALLAN, YOU HAVE NEGOTIATED FEW CONTRACTS IN YOUR TIME.

I UNDERSTAND THE PUBLIC RELATIONS.

FROM A MANAGEMENT POINT OF VIEW, IT DID NOT SOUND TOO BAD.

TALK ABOUT WALKING THROUGH CONTRACTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE GOVERNOR'S SHOES.

ALLAN: A LOT OF TIMES WHEN YOU ARE GOING BACK AND FORTH, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS ABOUT WHAT THEY WANT, WHAT YOU WANT, WHAT YOU WILL GET BACK FOR THE TAXPAYERS.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CONTRACT AS A WHOLE BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF GIVE-AND-TAKE.

YOU WANT TO COMPENSATE YOUR EMPLOYEES FAIRLY.

IT IS A GENEROUS CONTRACT.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM.

YOU ARE COMPETING WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

THE DEVIL HAS TO BE IN THE DETAILS FOR THOSE CONTRACTS.

ONE CRITICAL POINT COMING OUT THAT IS ABOUT THE COVID VACCINATION BONUS.

WHAT IS CONFUSING TO A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS IS NOT JUST THE AMOUNT, IT IS THE FACT THAT IT IS BEING GIVEN TO INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE NOT TAKEN THAT SHOT.

>> MEDICAL AND RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS ALSO GET THE $3000 BONUS.

ALLAN: FOR ME, LABOR NEGOTIATIONS, IT REALLY SHOULD FOCUS ON PERFORMANCE, EMPLOYEE'' WORK AND COMPENSATION TIED TO THAT.

FOR ME, IT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE IT TIED INTO MEDICAL DECISIONS.

>> THE GOVERNOR HAS THE FIRST PAYMENT OF $1500 GOING OUT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

THE SECOND $1500 PAYMENT GOES OUT IN JULY BEFORE THE PRIMARIES , THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR.

THIS RIVALS THE STENCH OF THE JOHNSON LANDFILL IN THE DOG DAYS OF SUMMER.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ANY TAXPAYER CAN LOOK AT THIS AND THINK THERE IS NOT SOMETHING WRONG HERE.

>> THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE, AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS IS 10%, ACCORDING TO WHAT I HAVE BEN READING, 10% OVER FOUR YEARS.

MY QUESTION IS, IT MIGHT BE MORE THAN THAT, I DON'T KNOW THE CONTRACT, WE HAVE NOT SEEN IT, BUT IF YOU WILL GET ELEVATED IN THE FIRST YEAR, IS THAT GOING TO BE COMPOUNDED AS EACH YEAR GOES ON, SO IT ACTUALLY BECOMES EVEN GREATER THAN 10%?

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT, ALTHOUGH IT IS ACADEMIC AT THIS POINT.

THAT IS ONE CONCERN I HAVE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LOOKED AT WAS THE GUIDEPOST FOR WHY THEY WERE NEGOTIATED -- STATE OFFICIALS -- WHY THEY WERE NEGOTIATING.

THE GUIDEPOST WERE THEY WANTED TO STEM INFLATION ON BEHALF OF THEIR EMPLOYEES SO THEY ARE TRYING TO DO THAT.

RETENTION.

THEY WANTED TO KEEP STATE WORKERS, AS ALLAN WAS REFERRING TO.

THEY WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE ON THE JOB.

AND VACCINATIONS.

THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE VACCINATED.

MY ARGUMENT WOULD BE THE END RESULT OF THIS WHOLE THING IS PROBABLY THIS -- INFLATIONS IS ECONOMIC FLAGELLATION.

REGRESSION GOING BACK TO THE WAY WE USED TO OPERATE THIS STATE.

THE VACCINATION --THEY WERE PANDERING.

THE GOVERNOR SHOULD BE CALLED GOVERNOR SANTA CLAUS BECAUSE THIS COMES AT A GREAT TIME FOR HIM, A GREAT TIME FOR THE ELECTION CYCLE.

HE IS UP AGAINST A FORMIDABLE OPPONENT NEXT YEAR.

IT DOES NOT SMELL RIGHT.

IF YOU LOOK AT -- FULL EMPLOYEE PAID HEALTH INSURANCE.

WHY RETENTION?

THESE ARE DREAM JOBS AND BENEFITS.

HEALTH INSURANCE FOR DOMESTIC PARTNERS.

PAID SHORT-TERM DISABILITY, PAID LONG-TERM DISABILITY, 401(K), LIFE INSURANCE AND ACCIDENTAL DEATH BENEFITS, THREE WEEKS EARNED VACATION A YEAR, 12 DAYS OF SICK LEAVE, IT GOES ON AND ON.

>> HERE IS WHERE I WILL PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT.

I HAVE BEEN IN THAT POSITION.

IT IS NOT EASY RETAINING EMPLOYEES OR ATTRACTING EMPLOYEES BECAUSE, BACK IN THE DAY, THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS ONE OF THOSE BENEFITS.

I WAS HAVING DIFFICULTY AS MAYOR TRYING TO ATTRACT TOP, TALENTED INDIVIDUALS.

WE HAVE HAD TO RAISE THE SALARY ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS DESPITE THE BENEFITS.

WHAT YOU ARE SEEING WITH THE NEXT GENERATION, THEY ARE MORE APT TO JUMP FROM JOB TO JOB.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE -- >> IT IS LIKE A FOOTBALL COACH IN COLLEGE.

[LAUGHTER] >> BRIAN KELLY AT NOTRE DAME.

>> THE OTHER ASPECT IS, WHAT I JUST READ OFF, PRIVATE INDUSTRY FOR THE MOST PART IS NOT DOING ANYMORE.

THEY WILL CHERRY PICK A FEW OF THOSE.

THE AVERAGE KID COMING OUT OF COLLEGE WILL HAVE 13 DIFFERENT COMPANIES BY THE TIME THEY RETIRE.

I UNDERSTAND THE YOUNGER GENERATION COMING UP IS MUCH MORE MOBILE WHEN IT COMES TO JOBS.

AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER, THESE JOBS, PEOPLE DO NOT GET FIRED FROM THESE JOBS.

YOU CANNOT SAY THAT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

I JUST THINK THAT AS WE TRY TO HIRE GOOD PEOPLE IN STATE GOVERNMENT -- I WORKED IN STATE GOVERNMENT TWICE.

I DID SHORT STINTS TWICE AND IT GAVE ME A GOOD LOOK INSIDE GOVERNMENT.

I THOUGHT A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKED HARD.

THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE, THE JOKE WAS, WHAT DOES HE DO?

WHAT DID SHE DO?

THEY JUST KIND OF WALK AROUND.

IT IS A DIFFICULT BALANCING ACT.

>> THE GENEROSITY ON THE BACK OF THE TAXPAYERS HAS TO BE CAREFULLY WATCHED.

>> YOU HAVE TO UP YOUR GRAPHIC GAME.

[LAUGHTER] >> THE YOUNGER GUY WILL DO DIGITAL.

>> HOLD YOUR PHONE UP.

FROM A MANAGEMENT STANDPOINT, I TALKED TO SOME PEOPLE WHO SAID THIS IS A CREATIVE WAY TO GIVE A BONUS, EXTRA MONEY THAT DOES NOT ADD TO THE PENSION.

YOU HAVE TO THINK THAT SOMEBODY LEAKED THIS BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR GOES ON VACATION AND HE IS NOT AROUND TO DEFEND IT.

IT IS THE FIRST BREAK HE HAS TAKEN, I DO NOT BEGRUDGE THAT, BUT IT IS INTERESTING THE WAY IT CAME OUT.

IF IT WAS NOT TIED TO THE POLITICIZATION OF THE VACCINATION, -- >> YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO COMPENSATE EMPLOYEES SO IT DOES NOT ADD TO THE PENSION.

WE ARE IN POLITICS.

WE ARE IN GOVERNMENT.

THE GOVERNOR HAS AN ELECTION NEXT YEAR.

WHATEVER DECISION HE WILL MAKE BETWEEN YESTERDAY TO NOVEMBER OF NEXT YEAR, IT WILL GET OUT.

THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS HE WILL HAVE TO MANAGE BECAUSE WHETHER IT IS THIS CONTRACT OR ANY OTHER DECISION, IT WILL BE SCRUTINIZED.

TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS GONE THROUGH TWO GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGNS.

EVERY SINGLE WORD, EVERY CONTRACT HE SIGNS, IT WILL BE LOOKED AT THROUGH A POLITICAL LENS.

>> THERE MIGHT BE OTHER THINGS GOING ON.

THE MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR SAID I AM HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THE PANDEMIC AND EVERYTHING WILL BE LOOKED AT THROUGH A POLITICAL LENS.

>> IF THE MAYOR OF BOSTON CAN GET A CABINET POSITION, WHAT ABOUT THE GOVERNOR?

>> HE WILL NOT BE IN THE SOUP KITCHEN.

>> THERE IS ONE THING WE SHOULD POINT OUT ABOUT GIVING THIS KIND OF MONEY AWAY.

IT IS A PRETTY BIG GIVEAWAY.

2.5%.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT THIS YEAR COMPARED TO ALL OF THEYEARS GOING BACK TO 2008, YOU CAN PROBABLY GO BACK BEFORE THAT, THERE IS SO MUCH MONEY RIGHT NOW WITH THE GOVERNMENT MONEY.

WE STILL HAVE OVER $1 BILLION THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS AT ITS DISPOSAL TO TRY TO SOLVE SOME OF THE PROBLEMS.

WE ARE FLUSH WITH MONEY.

WHEN HAVE WE EVER SAID THAT BEFORE?

>> THAT WAS THE CASE 10 YEARS AGO.

>> EVERYONE WAS SCRATCHING FOR MONEY.

THE OTHER THING THAT CAME OUT THIS WEEK, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS THE RIGHT WAY TO PROPOSE IT, A VACCINE PASSPORT.

EVEN THAT WORDING DRIVES PEOPLE NUTS.

THIS WAS BASICALLY A SIMPLE -- MY DAUGHTER DOES THIS IN NEW YORK CITY -- IF YOU ARE TRAVELING OVERSEAS, IT WILL BE THE SAME THING, HARD TO GET IN A RESTAURANT.

EVERYONE THINKS THAT GOVERNMENT WILL COMMIT AND MANDATE.

THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT CONVENIENT FOR YOU TO PUT IT ON THE PHONE.

HAS ANYONE ASKED FOR YOUR VACCINE CARD ANYWHERE?

>> NO ONE.

>> THERE IS A SOLUTION FOUND WHEN THERE WAS NOT A PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

HE SAID IT DOES NOT COST THE TAXPAYERS ANY ADDITIONAL MONEY.

IF THAT IS TRUE, SO BE IT.

AS LONG AS IT NEVER BECOMES MANDATORY AND IT DOES NOT COST THE TAXPAYERS, ALL RIGHT, SO WHAT.

>> IT IS AN APP, AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK OUT THAT WAY.

THOSE OF US WHO TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF RHODE ISLAND, GO TO NEW YORK, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES PEOPLE EITHER LOST THEIR CARD -- THERE HAVE BEEN FAKE CARDS OUT THERE, ANTONIO BROWN GOT SUSPENDED.

I TOOK MY MOM TO GET THE BOOSTER SHOT.

WHERE IS YOUR CARD?

I LOST IT.

THIS IS A CONVENIENT WAY TO HAVE IT IN ONE SPOT.

>> A DIGITAL BACKUP.

>> WHY YOU DON'T TAKE A PICTURE OF THAT?

>> WHEN YOU GET A BOOSTER OR ANYTHING ELSE.

>> AFTER I GOT MY BOOSTER, I TOOK ANOTHER PICTURE.

>> THAT IS ANOTHER WAY TO DO IT.

YOU NEED SOME KIND OF STANDARDIZED PATIENT.

>> THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH EUROPE IF THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ON A CARD.

>> YOU HAVE TO GET TESTED?

>> IT MIGHT GET YOU TO NEW YORK.

>> WHY IS THAT?

>> THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SYSTEM OVER THERE.

IF YOU ARE IN THE EUROPEAN SYSTEM, THEY WILL ACCEPT IT.

YOU CAN SHOW IT GO INTO A RESTAURANT.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE GO INTO HOLLAND AND WE DO NOT HAVE THE VACCINATION RECORD OR SOMETHING ELSE THAT WILL ALLOW US TO ET IN, YOU CAN SIT OUTSIDE AND HAVE FOOD OUTSIDE.

IN HOLLAND, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO DO THAT THIS TIME OF YEAR.

IF YOU WANT TO GOT WIND AND USE THE RESTROOM, THEY WILL DENY YOU.

>> HOW DO YOU GET IT?

>> WE ARE ABOUT TO FIND OUT.

[LAUGHTER] I GUESS YOU JUST GO TO THE BATHROOM BEFORE YOU GO OUT TO EAT.

WE ARE HAVING TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

>> ISN'T IT FUNNY THAT IN SOME BIGGER CITIES, MY DAUGHTER HAS BEEN DOING THIS FOR MONTHS.

SHE LIVES IN NEW YORK CITY.

DOES NOT THINK TWICE ABOUT IT.

I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY HAVE COME UP WITH THE APP YET.

IF I WANT TO GO TO A GREAT RESTAURANT IN NEW YORK.

>> I HAVE IT IN MY BACK POCKET.

>> THE OTHER THING THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS HOW TO SPEND THE MORE THAN $1 BILLION.

IT IS CALLED ARPA -- THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT.

YOUR TIMING ON MUNICIPALITIES, YOU WISH YOU WERE MAYOR OR GOVERNOR, ALL THOSE YEARS IT WAS LIKE, HOW ARE WE GOING TO BALANCE THE BUDGET?

THIS IS A ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY.

I KNOW YOUR CITY BACKFIELD A LITTLE BIT.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS NOW BECAUSE THERE IS PRESSURE BECAUSE A SENATOR IS CAMPING OUT FROM THE STATEHOUSE.

IF WE HAD MOVED QUICKER, WE MIGHT HAVE SPENT STUFF THAT IS NOW BEING COVERED.

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING WITH THIS MONEY COMING IN?

>> THAT IS WHERE I HAD BEEN GETTING A LOT OF PHONE CALLS, EUNICE APOLOGIES, THE STATE -- MUNICIPALITIES, THE STATE, ABOUT HOW THESE FEDERAL DOLLARS CAN BE USED.

IT IS A ONCE IN A GENERATION OPPORTUNITY FOR INVESTMENT.

AN ISSUE ON EVERYONE'S MINDS, HOMELESSNESS.

YOU HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE YOU CAN INVEST SOME FEDERAL DOLLARS TO PUT PEOPLE DURING THESE TIMES OF CRISIS INTO LONG-TERM SHELTERS, LONG-TERM HOUSING, BUILDING SOME PROJECTS SO YOU IF YOU INVEST THESE DOLLARS WISELY, IT CAN MEAN A LOT TO THESE INDIVIDUALS FOR NOT JUST TODAY, BUT LONG-TERM SUCCESS IN THE FUTURE.

>> HOW DOES AFFORDABLE HOUSING LOOK?

IS IT THE STATE IS BUYING THINGS?

RENTAL SUBSIDY?

EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT THE MONEY GOING ON, BUT THE NUTS AND BOLTS , HOW DO YOU GET FROM HERE TO PROVIDING THE HOUSING?

>> THE GOVERNOR EARMARKED $5 MILLION.

ACCORDING TO THE COALITION ON HOMELESSNESS, THERE WERE 268 PEOPLE WHO WERE WITHOUT BEDS.

THE MONEY HE JUST GAVE GIVES 275 BEDS.

>> THAT MAKES A DENT.

>> NOT JUST A DENT, THAT TOOK CARE OF ALL OF IT.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT CREATING LOW RENT -- >> SUSTAINABILITY.

HOW DO YOU GET FROM HERE TO THERE?

>> EVERY CITY AND TOWN, AS ALLAN KNOWS WELL, AND SO DOES LOU, THEY HAVE A REQUIREMENT TO MEET A 10% THRESHOLD ON AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WITH NEW HOUSING, ETC.

>> TWO COMMUNITIES IN THE STATE REACHED IT.

IT IS A GOAL, BUT IT IS A DREAM FOR SOME.

>> I DO NOT THINK THERE IS A PENALTY IF YOU DO NOT REACH IT.

THAT IS PART OF THE CALCULUS IN EACH OF THE COMMUNITIES.

EACH COMMUNITY MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

HERE IS A CONCERN I HAVE.

THERE IS TALK ABOUT GIVING A LOT OF THIS MONEY AND PAYING OFF THE PROVIDENCE PENSION ISSUE.

>> YOU CANNOT DO THAT.

>> IT WOULD BE REWARDING BAD GOVERNMENT GOING BACK 50 YEARS.

IT IS JUST AWFUL TO THINK THE REST OF THE STATE MIGHT END UP SACRIFICING THEIR OWN MONEY BECAUSE PROVIDENCE AND THE CNC WERE SO TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHEN THE PAYDAY WAS GOING TO COME IN, THEY WOULD BE GONE.

I HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH USING THIS MONEY TO PAYOFF THE SINS O F PAST CITY COUNCILS, MAYORS AND TOWN MANAGERS.

THAT IS NOT A GOOD USE OF THAT MONEY BECAUSE IT IS GONE.

>> THERE IS A STRICT PROHIBITION UNDER FEDERAL LAW THAT YOU CANNOT PAY PENSIONS.

>> WHY DO THEY KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT?

>> THERE IS A LOT OF MISINFORMATION.

A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS DO NOT HAVE A TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW YOU CAN UTILIZE THESE DOLLARS.

THERE ARE ONLY FOUR PILLARS FOR HOW YOU CAN INVEST THE MONEY.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY GRAPHICS?

[LAUGHTER] >> IF YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY.

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY.

YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT OTHER FEDERAL DOLLARS FOR WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR INFRASTRUCTURE DOLLARS.

IF WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THE DOLLARS WE HAVE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, STATE LEVEL AND LOCAL LEVEL, MAXIMIZE THOSE RESOURCES SO YOU CAN PUT IT TOWARD ADDRESSING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, OR ADDRESSING SOME OTHER ECONOMIC ISSUE IN EDUCATION.

YOU CAN TRANSFORM COMMUNITIES IN OUR STATE.

>> THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL DREAM BUT THIS IS THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

WE HAVE 39 TOWNS AND EACH ONE HAS THEIR OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT, SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT.

THEY WILL NOT COOPERATE FOR THE COMMON GOOD.

YOU KNOW THAT.

>> I THOUGHT OF REGIONALIZATION WAS GOING TO COME AT ANY TIME, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN 2008, 2009.

>> THAT IS THE SHAME ON THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

YOU CAN FIT THE STATE OF RHOE ISLAND INTO THE CITY OF ATLANTA AND LOSE THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

AND THEY ONLY HAVE ONE SUPERINTENDENT.

WHAT WE DO HERE IS RIDICULOUS.

>> I HAVE A LOT OF NATIONAL STUFF TO GET TO.

LET'S DO OUTRAGEOUS AND KUDOS.

ALLAN: I HAVE A KUDO FOR GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER.

HE COULD HAVE EASILY WON A THIRD TERM.

THE POLL NUMBERS JUSTIFY THAT.

I ADMIRE HIM BECAUSE HE GOVERNED LIKE I TRIED TO DO, GET THINGS DONE FOR THE COMMON GOOD OF ALL THE RESIDENTS IN MASSACHUSETTS.

JIM: YOU DO NOT THINK OF HIM AS A REPUBLICAN.

ALLAN: HE IS A PRACTICAL PERSON WHO DID WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE OF MASSACHUSETTS.

HE GOVERNED THE RIGHT WAY, WORKED ACROSS THE AISLE.

GOOD FOR HIM.

HE WANTED TO TAKE THE TIME TO FINISH STRONG, DEAL WITH THE COVID CRISIS AND SPEND MORE TIME WITH THIS FAMILY.

JIM: NO OFFENSE TO THE REPUBLICANS.

>> HE HAD TO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT IS A DEMOCRATIC STATE.

JIM: DAVE, ARE THERE MORE GRAPHICS?

[LAUGHTER] DAVE: I HAVE A BIT OF AN OUTRAGE.

CHRIS CUOMO HAS BEEN DETHRONED FOR THE TIME BEING AT CNN.

HE IS THE MOST POPULAR PERSONALITY THEY HAVE IN THEIR NIGHTTIME LINEUP.

THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION FOR CNN.

JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND, HIS BROTHER WAS IN DEEP TROUBLE, HAD TO RESIGN AS GOVERNOR, CHRIS CUOMO WAS BASICALLY SUSPENDED BECAUSE HE WAS BEING TOO MUCH OF AN ADVISOR FOR HIS BROTHER, AND HE WAS DOING A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE SCENES TO HELP HIS BROTHER GET OUT OF THIS FIX.

IN TRYING TO FIND WHO WAS GOING TO SCOOP.

>> AND LYING ABOUT IT.

THEY ASKED HIM AND HE SAID HE IS NOT DOING IT.

DAVE: I CAN UNDERSTAND A GUY LIKE CHRIS CUOMO, WHO IS A SMART GUY, WOULD GET HIMSELF INTO THE SITUATION.

THEY ARE BROTHERS.

HE HAS HAD HIM ON THE SHOW AS A GUEST.

IT IS INSENSITIVITY.

HE SAID FAMILY FIRST.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

I AGREE.

FAMILY FIRST.

WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS TAKE A LEAVE OF ABSENCE FOR THE NEXT FIVE OR SIX MONTHS.

HE COULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH THAT BECAUSE HE IS SO POPULAR.

IF SOMEONE ELSE DID IT, THEY WOULD REPLACE YOU.

THEY NEEDED HIM.

TO ME, IT WAS A BAD MISTAKE AND FRANKLY CNN SHOULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MORE INVESTIGATIVE THEMSELVES ON WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP WAS.

IT WAS SO PUBLIC.

THEY SHOULD HAVE ASKED MORE QUESTIONS.

LOU: MY OUTRAGE WILL DEAL WITH THE MAYOR'S LAB EXPERIMENT.

HIS GUARANTEED INCOME PROGRAM HAS BEGUN.

110 PEOPLE OUT OF 4000 APPLICANTS -- ONLY 110 OUT OF 4000 ARE GOING TO RECEIVE AN EXTRA $500 PER MONTH.

BECAUSE OF THIS INCREASE IN INCOME, SOME OF THEM WILL LOSE SOME BENEFITS.

IT WILL BE AN EVENING OUT.

THE POINT IS ALL OF THIS SPENDING IS BEING TRACKED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNMENT FUNDING INCOME POLICIES.

THEY WILL BE TRACKING HOW PEOPLE ARE SPENDING THESE MONEYS.

IT LOOKS LIKE A LAB EXPERIMENT TO ME.

ONE OF THE WOMEN IS A MOTHER OF TWO.

SHE SAID SHE WILL USE THIS MONEY IN ORDER TO GET A DOWN PAYMENT FOR A HOME.

YOU CANNOT MAKE MORE THAN $11,000 AND GET INTO THIS PROGRAM.

YOU TELL ME HOW $11,000 PLUS $6,000 FOR $17,000 IS GOING TO HELP HER.

IT LOOKS LIKE A LAB EXPERIMENT.

JIM: WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THIS IS BEING FUNDED PRIVATELY.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE CLEAR.

YOU SAID GOVERNMENT MONEY.

I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT, YOU ARE RIGHT.

IS THIS SUSTAINABLE FOR THE LONG RUN?

LOU: IT IS AN EXPERIMENT ONLY.

I JUST THINK IT SETS PEOPLE UP FOR FAILURE IN THE FUTURE.

JIM: WE COULD DO ANOTHER TWO HOURS ON NATIONAL.

SUPPLY CHAIN, INFLATION, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS UNDER SIEGE, NOW OMICRON COMES IN.

IT IS EASY TO HURL THINGS.

YOU MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT PERSON TO ASK THIS, BUT WHAT DOES HE DO TO RIGHT THE SHIP?

>> WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS FIGURE OUT WHAT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WANTS AND NEEDS.

THAT IS THE IMPORTANT THING.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE ELECTIONS IN VIRGINIA AND NEW JERSEY HAPPENED A FEW MONTHS AGO AND SHOWED PEOPLE VOTE WITH THEIR POCKETBOOK.

WHEN YOU ARE SEEING -- YOU MENTIONED INFLATION -- THE COST OF GAS IS SKYROCKETING.

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN MY OUTRAGE.

THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE PUT OUT A MEME ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU, JOE BIDEN, FOR OUR GAS PRICES DROPPING A COUPLE OF CENTS DURING THIS TWO-WEEK PERIOD.

>> WHAT DID THEY DO?

DAVE: I HAPPEN TO THINK JOE BIDEN IS GIVING IT HIS BEST.

IT HAS NOT BEEN VERY GOOD SOMETIMES AT HIS BEST, BUT I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME WIGGLE ROOM COMING UP BECAUSE INFLATION -- THE GAS PRICES, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE STARTED TO COME DOWN.

IT IS DOWN $20 PER BARREL.

IT WILL HAVE SOME PROFOUND INFLUENCE ON THE COST OF GASOLINE COMING UP AT THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO.

NOW, THAT COULD REVERSE.

THIS IS ALL VERY QUICK TO CHANGE AT TIMES.

I THINK BIDEN, FRANKLY, MADE A BIG MISTAKE BY NOT JUMPING INTO THIS BACK UP ALL THE SHIPS OFF THE COAST OF LONG BEACH AND LOS ANGELES.

I WOULD HAVE MOVED ON THAT IN A NEW YORK MINUTE.

>> THE COMMERCE SECRETARY -- THIS IS A PRIVATE-SECTOR ISSUE, THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

TELL THAT TO THE GUY WHO CAN'T GET HIS AIR PODS.

>> MY MOTHER HAD A SAYING, EDUCATION IS WHAT REMAINS -- MARKETING IS WHAT REMAINS AFTER THE FACTS HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN.

GETTING BACK TO THE POCKETBOOK ISSUES, PEOPLE MIGHT CARE ABOUT ABORTION, THAT MIGHT NOT CARE ABOUT OTHER STUFF, BUT THEY DO CARE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE PAYING OUT EVERY DAY.

AND THEY ARE NOT SAVING THE MONEY THEY USED TO.

LOU: IT MIGHT BE A NO-WIN PROPOSITION FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN, BUT WHETHER YOU ARE REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRATIC OR INDEPENDENT, WE WERE ALL SHAMED BY WHAT HAPPENED IN AFGHANISTAN WHEN WE LEFT.

WE SHOWED SUCH WEAKNESS THAT NOW WE ARE SEEING CHINA STARTING TO FLY WARSHIPS INTO TAIWAN, WE ARE SEEING 100,000 RUSSIAN TROOPS ON THE BORDER OF UKRAINE.

WE SHOWED OUR WEAKNESS AND THEY ARE ALL SEIZING UPON IT NOW.

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HE CAN DO, BUT WE NEED TO GET OUR MOJO BACK AND RESPOND.

>> DO YOU THINK AFGHANISTAN WILL BE AN ISSUE ONE YEAR FROM NOW?

>> IT MUST.

IT IS NOT WHETHER YOU ARE LEFT OR RIGHT, THERE WAS NOT ONE AMERICAN CITIZEN WAS PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN THAT DID NOT FEEL SHAMED OR DISCUSSED AT WHAT HAPPENED.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT KIDS FALLING OFF OF A PLANE.

IF HE DOES NOT ADDRESS OUR MORAL COURAGE, HE IS GOING TO LOSE QUICKLY.

>> THAT IS A QUICK 30 MINUTES.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

DAVE, THANK YOU.

ALLAN AND LOU, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE HOPE YOU HAD A GREAT THANKSGIVING.

WE ARE HERE AS WE HEAD INTO THE HOLIDAYS.

COME BACK HERE NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] ♪ >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY BY.

>> FOR OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.