>> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

>> I DON'T BELIEVE YOU WILL BE SERVING AS GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND FOR VERY MUCH LONGER.

JIM: GOVERNOR RAIMONDO GETS A FRIENDLY WELCOME FROM THE COMMITTEE THAT IN HER BED TO BECOME BEST BETTING HER BID TO BECOME CABINET SECRETARY.

AND VACCINE ROLLOUT CONTINUES TO BE PLAGUED BY DISTRIBUTION QUESTIONS.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- JOHN: FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF IMPORTANT POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR., AND I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM ON RHODE ISLAND PBS.

♪ JIM: JOINING US ON THIS WEEK'S PANEL, BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER AMANDA MILKOVITS.

TED NESI, POLITICS AND BUSINESS EDITOR FOR WPRI CHANNEL 12.

AND PROVIDENCE JOURNAL'S STATEHOUSE REPORTER, PATRICK ANDERSON.

WELCOME, EVERYONE.

I AM JIM HUMMEL.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US THIS WEEKEND.

IF THERE WAS ANY DOUBT OF IN BE CONFIRMED AS COMMERCE SECRETARY, BUT QUICKLY EVAPORATED SHORTLY AFTER THE HEARING DONE VIRTUALLY BEGAN ON TUESDAY.

A REAL CONTENTIOUS MOMENT CAME WHEN REPUBLICAN SENATOR TED CRUZ BEGAN TO QUESTION HER.

IF YOU DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO SLOG THROUGH THE 2.5 HOURS OF THE HEARING AS THE REST OF US DID, WE HAVE A TASTE OF HER TESTIMONY, BEGINNING WITH SENATOR CRUZ'S QUESTION.

SEN. CRUZ: IN 2019, THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND CAME OUT 50TH, DEAD LAST -- THE WORST STATE IN THE UNION FOR BUSINESSES.

WHAT REASSURANCES CAN YOU GIVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT YOUR PERFORMANCE AT COMMERCE WOULD BE BETTER THAN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND HAVE DONE IN TERMS OF CREATING AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE JOBS ARE PLENTIFUL?

>> I RAN FOR GOVERNOR WHEN RHODE ISLAND HAD THE HIGHEST AND IMPLEMENT RATE IN THE COUNTRY.

PRIOR TO COVID, WE HAD THE LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN OUR STATE'S HISTORY, AND THE MOST JOBS IN OUR STATE'S HISTORY.

MY RECORD IS CLEAR, THAT WE HAVE CREATED THOUSANDS OF JOBS, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO FIGHTING FOR THE AMERICAN WORKER SHOULD I BE CONFIRMED.

I BELIEVE THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS PROBABLY THE GREATEST THREAT WE FACE, AND ALSO, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE JOBS AS WE COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE TALKED A LOT TODAY ABOUT HOW TO COMPETE WITH CHINA.

WE TALKED ABOUT TARIFFS AND DEFENSE, BUT SOME OF IT IS OFFENSE, WHICH IS INVESTING IN AMERICAN INNOVATION AND DOING THAT BROADLY.

SO I HAVE DECIDED TO WORK WITH YOU ON THAT ISSUE.

>> I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU WILL BE SERVING AS GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND FOR VERY MUCH LONGER, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

JIM: THERE YOU HAVE IT, FROM THE CHAIRMAN'S LIPS TO OUR EARS.

I THINK THE MOST AMUSING THING AT THE BEGINNING, HE SAID, NOT GOVERNOR RAIMONDO WILL BE TESTIFYING VIRTUALLY BECAUSE SHE IS SO BUSY RUNNING THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

THEN FOR THE NEXT TWO HOURS, ALL WE HEARD WAS, SENATOR, THE CONVERSATION WE HAD WITH YOU LAST WEEK -- IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE SPENT MOST OF THE LAST WEEK AND READY FOR THE HEARING.

WHICH IS FINE.

TED, THAT IS MY OBSERVATION.

I WAS EXPECTING A FEW MORE HARD ALL QUESTIONS.

I KNOW YOU SLOGGED THROUGH THE TWO AND A HALF HOURS.

TELL ME YOUR IMPRESSIONS.

TED: IT WAS MORE POSITIVE THAN I EXPECTED, AS WELL, JUST ON A BASIC LEVEL OF WASHINGTON PARTISANSHIP.

THE CHAIRMAN SAID THAT TONE IN THE HEARING FROM THE TOP, REPUBLICAN FROM MISSISSIPPI.

HE WAS PRAISING THE GOVERNOR IN HIS INTRODUCTION.

YOU HAVE TOMAJORITY, WITH KAMA'S TIE-BREAKING VOTE, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE CONTROL YET BECAUSE MITCH MCCONNELL AND CHUCK SCHUMER ARE STILL ARGUING.

I THINK THAT IS AFFECTED THE DYNAMIC.

CERTAINLY, I KNOW THE GOVERNOR'S PEOPLE WERE THRILLED THAT, THE TED CRUZ?

THE TOUGHEST WHEN SHE GOT ON HER OWN RECORD.

EVEN ON A COUPLE OF OTHERS WHERE SHE DID NOT HAVE A STRONG OPINION, OR DID NOT WANT TO MAKE ANY POLICY ON THE FLY, SHE SEEMED TO GET THROUGH IT UNSCATHED.

A PRETTY SOLID DEBUT ON THE NATIONAL STAGE FOR HER.

JIM: AMANDA, A LOT OF TECHNICAL QUESTIONS.

THERE WERE A LOT OF TIMES I HAD NEVER HEARD OF.

IT MAKES YOU REALIZE THE BREADTH OF THE COMMERCE SECRETARY WAS, AND SHE WAS PRETTY PREPARED.

AMANDA: WHAT I THOUGHT WAS AMAZING WAS THE HEARING COVERED THE BREADTH OF WHAT THE JOB IS.

THIS IS THE NATIONAL STAGE.

EVERYBODY IN THAT COMMITTEE ROOM, YOU FELT THEY WERE ROOTING FOR HER, THEY DO NOT SO MUCH SENATOR CRUZ, THAT THEY WANTED TO SEE, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO HELP MY STATE?

HOW WILL YOU ADVANCE THIS ISSUE?

SHE WAS INCREDIBLY PREPARED.

BUT THIS IS GOVERNOR RAIMONDO.

WE ARE KIND OF USED TO IT.

THIS IS HOW SHE WORKS.

SHE HAS BEEN BUSY RUNNING THE STATE.

WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC.

BUT I WAS NOT AT ALL SURPRISED THAT FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, SHE HAS BEEN BEHIND-THE-SCENES SPIT IT TO THESE FOLKS.

THAT WAS A JOB INTERVIEW THAT WAS THE BEST WAY A JOB INTERVIEW COULD GO.

WE WILL NOT BE SEEING HER OUT TOO MUCH, FOR SURE.

JIM: PATRICK, WE HAVE WATCHED 125 BRIEFINGS SHE HAS DONE.

IT IS CLEAR THAT THE BIDEN PEOPLE ARE TELLING HER TO CLAM UP AND NOT TALK TO US, LIKE ANYBODY WAS WORRIED ABOUT HER HANDLING HERSELF.

SHE HAS DONE IT FOR NINE MONTHS.

THAT SHE COULD NOT TALK TO REPORTERS BECAUSE THAT MIGHT JEOPARDIZE HER HEARING -- I FOUND THAT TO BE A DISCONNECT.

PATRICK: IT DOES COME ACROSS A LITTLE ODD.

YOU WONDER WHAT THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT.

I THINK IT IS A BLANKET BEST PRACTICE HAVE ESTABLISHED RATHER THAN SOMETHING THAT IS SPECIFICALLY RELATES TO RAIMONDO OR SOMETHING WHERE THEY ARE ACTUALLY AFRAID OF ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR THAT SHE WILL SAY.

BUT IT HAS BEEN A LITTLE FRUSTRATING OVER THE LAST WEEK OR SO, TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT SHE HAS ACTUALLY BEEN DOING, WHEN IT IS CLEAR THAT MOST OF HER TIME HAS BEEN PREPARING FOR THESE HEARINGS, IF NOT MOST OF A LOT OF HER TIME.

AND THE NUMBER OF MEETINGS THAT SHE HAS HAD WITH SENATORS AND POTENTIALLY OTHER MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, WE REALLY HEARD THAT REPARATION, AND THE LEVEL OF CONVERSATIONS SHE HAS HAD WITH ALL OF THE DIFFERENT SENATORS, MEMORIZING WHAT THEIR PARTICULAR ISSUES ARE, WHAT THEIR HOME STATE INDUSTRIES ARE, FROM CHARITIES TO SALMON TO DIFFERENT THINGS, THAT THEY ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN.

YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH TIME SHE HAS BEEN SPENDING DOING THAT.

IT HAS BEEN A LITTLE FRUSTRATING ALSO THAT HER OFFICE AND FOLKS HERE HAVE NOT ACKNOWLEDGED THAT AND TOLD US WHAT SHE IS DOING.

THEY WOULD NOT SAY WHO SHE IS MEETING WITH, HOW MANY SENATORS SHE HAS MET WITH OVER THE LAST TWO WEEKS.

BUT THAT IS A FRUSTRATION THAT BEST TO HER, IS SMALL ON THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS.

JIM: TED?

TED: I AGREE WITH PATRICK SHE IS STILL THE GOVERNOR, AND IT IS OUR JOB TO COVER HER EVEN IF SHE IS IN HER OWN VERSION OF LOCKDOWN.

LOOK, WE ARE IN A VERY FRAUGHT TIME IN COVID.

ONE OF HER ADVISOR SAID, LOOK, THERE WERE TIMES WHEN WE COULD ALL GO HOME TO THE CAPE FOR A WHILE IN THE SUMMERTIME AND PEOPLE DID NOT THROW A FIT THAT HE WAS NOT AROUND DURING PRESS CONFERENCES.

BUT THEY ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED THIS WAS A TIME SHE WAS DOING DAILY PRESS CONFERENCES NOT SO LONG AGO.

I THINK THE CONFUSION AROUND THE VACCINE -- I KNOW SHE IS STILL DOING MEETINGS AND HAVING CONFERENCE CALLS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE BUT IS BEST THAT IS OF HER TIME, BUT I THINK THE LACK OF HER VOICE BEING OUT THERE HAS CREATED -- SAYING THAT TEACHERS SHOULD BE PRIORITIZED, AND THEN IT GOT KIND OF WALKED BACK, I DO THINK THE LEADERSHIP VACUUM EVEN JUST FROM A PUBLIC COMMUNICATION AND UNDERSTANDING STANDPOINT IS HAVING AN EFFECT.

OVER TIME, WE WILL FIND OUT IT ALSO HAD A REAL EFFECT BEHIND-THE-SCENES.

JIM: AND AMANDA, THE RELATIONSHIP HAS NOT BEEN GOOD.

WE KNOW IT HAS BEEN VERY DISTANT, FOR WHATEVER REASON, BETWEEN MCKEE AND RAIMONDO.

YOU HEARD HIM SAY, THERE IS ONLY ONE GOVERNOR AT A TIME.

THEN OVER THE WEEKEND HE SAID, MAYBE THE TEACHERS SHOULD GET THE VACCINE, MAYBE THE LEGISLATORS.

HONESTLY, I WISH THE GOVERNOR THE BEST OF LUCK, BUT I THINK THE SOONER SHE GOES, THE BETTER FOR EVERYBODY.

AMANDA: WE NEED TO MOVE ON.

WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC AND THE GOVERNOR WILL BE ON THE NATIONAL STAGE BUT THE REST OF US ARE STILL HERE.

WE ARE STILL DEALING WITH THE ISSUE AND THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF CONFUSION OF WHO IS GETTING THE VACCINE AND WHEN.

THIS IS THURSDAY MORNING, WE ARE EXPECTING AN ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT PEOPLE OVER 75 IN DIFFERENT CITIES AND TOWNS THAT WILL BE ALLOWED TO GET THE VACCINE.

BUT HOW MUCH VACCINE?

THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAS SAID HE WANTS TEACHERS PRIORITIZED.

BUT AS TED SAYS, HE IS STARTING TO WALK BUT BACK.

TEACHERS WOULD LOVE TO BE PRIORITIZED.

WE HAVE NOT HAD A REAL, SEAMLESS TRANSITION, HANDOFF HERE AND IT HAS BEEN DIFFICULT WITH THE COMMUNICATION SHUT OUT FROM THE GOVERNOR.

JIM: PATRICK, WHAT SENSE DO YOU GET ABOUT WHAT A MCKEE ADMINISTRATION WILL LOOK LIKE VERSUS A RAIMONDO ADMINISTRATION?

ANYTHING VIEWERS AND THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE LOOKING OUT IN THAT INITIAL WEEK, TWO WEEKS TO A MONTH AFTER HE TAKES OVER?

PATRICK: EVERYONE WILL BE LOOKING AT THE VACCINE ROLLOUT FIRST AND FOREMOST.

THAT'S REALLY THE FIRST EXAMPLE OF, FIRST OFF, THIS TENSION OF HAVING ALMOST TWO GOVERNORS RIGHT NOW.

IT WILL ALSO BE THE FIRST THING WHERE WE MIGHT SEE ACTUAL PRACTICAL EVIDENCE OF WHERE MCKEE MIGHT TAKE THE STATE AND MIGHT DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY FROM RAIMONDO.

TED MENTIONED, THURSDAY WE ARE EXPECTING A BRIEFING ON COVID AND THE VACCINATION PLANS LATER TODAY, IN WHICH MCKEE WILL BE ON STAGE.

SO WE HAVE A REALLY ODD SITUATION WHERE THE POLICY IS BEING SET BY ONE GOVERNOR AND ONE GOVERNOR'S TEAM, BUT A NEW GOVERNOR COMING IN IS ACTUALLY THE ONE SPEAKING FOR THE STATE AND IS THE BOSS TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SETTING THAT POLICY.

THEY KNOW THAT THE PERSON NEXT TO THEM IS THE ONE WHO WILL BE CALLING THE SHOTS PROBABLY SOMETIME NEXT WEEK.

SO IT IS REALLY A BIZARRE DYNAMIC OF WHO IS REALLY IN CHARGE.

BUT I THINK WE WILL GET A SENSE, A LITTLE BIT, OF WHETHER HE WANTS TO COME IN AND CHANGE THE DIRECTION, AND SHOW THAT HE IS DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN RAIMONDO DID AND OR TRYING TO SHAKE THINGS UP AND SHOW THE VOTERS BUT HE IS IN CONTROL.

OR HE COULD GO FOR CONTINUITY, REALIZING THAT THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED SITUATION .

THAT THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN WORKING ON FOR A LONG TIME.

HE IS COMING IN A LITTLE COLD.

AND HAVING AN EASIER AND SMOOTHER TRANSITION, TRYING TO MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT HAVE CONFLICT, YOU DON'T HAVE CROSSING MESSAGES LIKE WE HAD A LITTLE BIT THIS WEEK GOING FORWARD.

THAT COULD MAKE THE SITUATION WORSE.

JIM: WHAT ARE YOU HEARING, TED?

TED: IT IS INTERESTING, I WAS TOLD YESTERDAY THAT STARTING THIS PAST MONDAY, TWO DAYS AFTER MCKEE'S EXPECTED CONFERENCE ABOUT PRIORITIZING TEACHERS, HE STARTED HAVING DAILY CONFERENCE CALLS WITH THE HEALTH DIRECTOR DR. ALEXANDER SCOTT, AND FROM THE NATIONAL GUARD, ANOTHER LEADER FOR GOVERNOR RAIMONDO.

THERE WAS ALSO RECOGNITION ON THE RAIMONDO TEAM SIDE THAT EVEN THOUGH HE IS KEEPING THE SAME PEOPLE IN PLACE, HIS VOICE WILL BE TUNED OUT, AND THEY NEED TO MAKE SURE HE IS ON BOARD AND LISTENING AND UNDERSTANDING WHY THEY ARE MAKING THE POLICY CHOICES THEY ARE.

AND ONCE HE IS TRULY GOVERNOR, INFLUENCING AND CHANGING IT.

I ALSO THINK THAT YOU ARE SEEING THAT THE DAN MCKEE IS OUT OF THE LEARNING A LESSON THAT, YOU CAN SAVE MOSTLY WHATEVER YOU WANT AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND YOU GET A HEADLINE HERE AND THERE, BUT WHEN YOU ARE GOVERNOR, EVERY SENTENCE YOU UTTER, ESPECIALLY ON SOMETHING LIKE VACCINES, IS A STATEWIDE HEADLINE AND GETS PICKED APART AND LOOKED AT.

I WILL BE HONEST, I DID NOT EXPECT HIM TO DO THIS MANY INTERVIEWS AND OFF-THE-CUFF CONVERSATIONS BEFORE HE WAS GOVERNOR, WHEN HE WAS STUCK IN THIS LIMBO.

BECAUSE IF HE SAID IT ONCE AS GOVERNOR, THAT IS THE POLICY AND THEY HAVE TO DO IT.

RIGHT NOW, HE IS STUCK.

I WAS SURPRISED.

I DID NOT THINK THEY WOULD HAVE HIM THIS MUCH OUT FRONT IN THE IN-BETWEEN PERIOD.

JIM: THE OTHER THING I WONDER, AMANDA, THE GOVERNOR, WHEN SHE HAD A DISCUSSION OF COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, DID SHE SNEAKED OUT?

SHE BLEW US OFF BASICALLY AT HER LAST PRESS CONFERENCE.

RIGHT BEFORE SHE SAID I AM LEAVING, SHE SAID, BY THE WAY, WE ARE EXTENDING ALL THE RESTRICTIONS UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF FEBRUARY.

NOW THAT AFFECTS A LOT OF BUSINESSES.

YOU WONDER WHETHER THAT IS SOMETHING THAT MCKEE IS GOING TO FROM DAY ONE SAY, WE ARE GOING TO ROLL THAT BACK.

THAT IS SOMETHING CONCRETE HE COULD DO.

PATRICK: HE COULD DO THAT.

I AM CURIOUS HOW MANY OF THE RESTRICTIONS SHE HAS IMPOSED HE WILL CONTINUE.

AS TED AND PATRICK HAVE SAID, HE IS THE MAIN PERSON NOW, OR HE WILL BE THE MAIN PERSON.

IT IS EASY TO BE BEHIND-THE-SCENES AND SAY THIS IS WHAT I THINK SHOULD HAPPEN.

BUT NOW HE HAS A CHANCE TO REALLY HAVE AN IMPRINT AND LEAD ON STATE GOVERNMENT -- LEAVE A MARK ON STATE GOVERNMENT.

WE WILL SEE WHAT HE DOES.

AND I AM CURIOUS WHO THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WILL BE, AND WHAT KIND OF ROLE THAT PERSON WILL PLAY.

WHETHER THEY WILL ALSO BE A PARTNER TO DAN MCKEE.

JIM: OK, THE VACCINE ROLLOUT.

WE WERE TALKING OFF-AIR BEFORE.

MY INBOX IS BLOWING UP EVERY WEEK WE ACTUALLY PASSED A LOT OF IT ON TO YOUR COLLEAGUES, ELI SHERMAN, TED.

THANKED HIM FOR ALL THE EMAILS I HAVE SENT HIS WAY.

PATRICK, THAT MAY BEGIN WITH YOU.

THE MCKEE ADMINISTRATION, IT WILL BE FRONT AND CENTER JUST AS IT IS WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT STRUCK ME IS LAST FALL, I REMEMBER THE GOVERNOR SAYING WE HAVE THIS GREAT VACCINE PLAN.

I AM THINKING, VACCINES, SO FAR AWAY.

NOW WE REALIZE HOW IMPORTANT THE PLAN WAS.

BUT THE PLAN IS NOT MEETING WITH REALITY.

FROM MY VANTAGE POINT, THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ENOUGH OF A REACTION TO SAY, WHAT IS WRONG?

LET'S GO FORWARD.

YOU MAY A LITTLE CLOSER TO IT WITH THE PEOPLE YOU TALK TO, BUT I WONDER WHY GOVERNMENT IS A LITTLE MORE NIMBLE AT THIS POINT.

PATRICK: WITH RHODE ISLAND'S VACCINE PLAN, THERE IS A COUPLE OF THINGS.

THERE IS THE WAY THEY HAVE APPROACHED ACTUALLY DOING THE VACCINATION, THEN THERE IS THE COMMUNICATION ISSUE.

THEY'VE BEEN VERY CONSERVATIVE ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

AND ON WHY THEY TRIED TO DISTRIBUTE THE VACCINE THAT HAS PLUSES AND MINUSES.

AS YOU HAVE SEEN IN OTHER STATES, IF YOU MAKE THE VACCINE AVAILABLE OR LET PEOPLE SIGN UP WIDELY, THERE ARE GOING TO BE BIG MESSES WHEN THEY TRY TO ACTUALLY GET THE SHOT, IT IS NOT AVAILABLE, THE LONG LINES AS IN FLORIDA, WEBSITES THAT SHUT OFF.

AND ALL KINDS OF MESSES WITH PEOPLE ANGRY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD THEY CAN GET THE VACCINE BUT THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY GET IT BECAUSE THERE AREN'T ENOUGH SHOTS.

IT HAS DRIVEN RHODE ISLAND'S RESPONSE TO TRY TO AVOID THAT AND KEEP THE VACCINATIONS VERY NARROW.

AND THAT ACTUALLY HAS THE MINAS OF, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO WANT THE VACCINE -- HAS A MINUS OF, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO WANT THE VACCINE BUT FEEL LIKE THEY ARE NOT BEING CONSIDERED TO GET IT.

THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS IN CONNECTICUT ARE WALKING UP TO A CLINIC AND GETTING IT THAT DAY.

SO IT IS BENDING THEM -- IT IS MAKING THEM ANGRY.

THEN ON COMMUNICATION, EVEN IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO, AS RHODE ISLAND HAS DONE, A NARROW DISTRIBUTION ROLLOUT, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE COMMUNICATION TO RESIDENTS ABOUT ONE THEY CAN EXPECT IT.

-- ABOUT WHEN THEY CAN EXPECT IT.

I THINK IT WOULD MAKE PEOPLE MORE ACCEPTING OF NOT BEING IN LINE NOW, OR NOT BEING ABLE TO RUN OUT AND GET THE SHOT NOW.

IF THEY HAD SOME BETTER EXTRADITION OF ONE AND MIGHT GET IT.

HOPEFULLY THAT IS COMING SOON.

THAT IS A LOT OF THE EMAILS THAT I GET, JUST THE VACUUM OF INFORMATION AND THE CONFUSION THAT PEOPLE FEEL.

JIM: TED, YOU GUYS HAVE DONE A DEEP DIVE ON THIS.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

TED: I DEFER IN SOME WAYS TO YOU LIKE SHERMAN, MY COLLEAGUE AT WPRI, OUR VACCINE EXPERT.

AS EDITOR, THIS IS INSANELY COMPLICATED.

I HAVE EDITED THOUSANDS OF WORDS I JUST ON THE LAST WEEK ON VACCINES AND I STILL HAVE TROUBLE KEEPING IT IN MY OWN HEAD, AS PATRICK IS ALLUDING TO, THE STREAMS OF CAUSES AFFECTING IT RIGHT NOW.

THERE ARE -- THERE IS TRUTH TO WHAT PATRICK SAID ABOUT A COMMUNICATION VACUUM.

THAT GOES BACK TO THE GOVERNOR WHO, IN NORMAL TIMES, WOULD BE DOING BRIEFINGS AND TAKING QUESTIONS.

I THINK THAT WOULD ALLAY THE PUBLIC'S CONFUSION.

YES, THEY STILL DO THEM WITH DR. ALEXANDER SCOTT, BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME AS WITH THE GOVERNOR.

I CONTINUE TO THINK THAT THERE IS A BASIC ECON 101 SUPPLY AND DEMAND PROBLEM HERE.

IF YOU SEND THE FIRST DOSES TO RHODE ISLAND FOR A MILLION PEOPLE, EVEN IF ONLY SAY 300 OR 400,000 PEOPLE WANT OF FIRST DOSE AT THE MOMENT, BUT IS STILL WAY MORE DEMAND THAN THE NUMBER OF SHOTS COMING IN.

WE WERE TALKING BEFORE, I LOOKED AT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE GLOBE AND THE HERALD TODAY.

CHARLIE BAKER IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

HE IS DOING CONFERENCES, AND IT IS STILL IN MESS IN MASSACHUSETTS -- WE ARE GETTING EMAILS FROM OUR VIEWERS ACROSS THE BORDER TOO.

PART OF THIS WILL BE THE FAULT OF THE GOVERNOR'S TRANSITION, AND RHODE ISLAND OFFICIALS, BUT I THINK PART OF IT IS RHODE ISLANDERS FEELING THE SAME MESS THAT OTHER STATES ARE FROM THE LIMITED SUPPLY, AND, AGAIN, A FEDERAL TRANSITION AT THE SAME TIME.

JIM: I WANT TO SHIFT GEARS SLIGHTLY.

YOU HAVE BEEN COVERING THIS COLD NURSING HOME ISSUE EXTENSIVELY, LEADING THE COVERAGE ON IT.

AT FIRST, PEOPLE COULD NOT GET IN TO SEE THEIR LOVED ONES.

NOW THERE IS A CAREGIVERS BILL.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WATCH THIS SHOW, AND I GET A LOT OF EMAILS THAT SAY, I CAN'T SEE MY LOVED ONE.

HOW DO WE GET A SOLUTION HERE?

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE COVERAGE YOU HAVE DONE ON THIS?

AMANDA: SURE.

THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST TRAGIC STORIES TO COME OUT OF THE PANDEMIC.

THE ELDERLY IN THE NURSING HOMES WHO NO ONE CAN SEE THEM, THEIR LOVED ONES CANNOT SEE THEM.

THEY ARE STUCK IN THEIR ROOMS.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE ACTIVITIES THEY USED TO HAVE.

YOU TALK TO ANY CNA, AND THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DYING OF LONELINESS.

THEY ARE ALSO DYING OF COVID, AND THAT IS THE REASON THEY HAD SO MANY RESTRICTIONS ON VISITATION.

THERE IS A GROUP OF FAMILIES HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING SINCE LAST SUMMER PARTICULARLY ONCE THE GOVERNOR STARTED ROLLING BACK RESTRICTIONS ON CASINOS AND STRIP CLUBS AND NOT ON NURSING HOMES, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT JUST GOING INTO VISIT GRANDMA, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE TAKING CARE OF LOVED ONES WHO HAVE DEMENTIA.

WHO SPENT HOURS EVERY SINGLE DAY TAKING CARE OF THEM, FEEDING THEM, WALKING THEM, GIVING THEM MEDICATION.

JIM: AND TAKE THE LOAD OFF THE STAFF, RIGHT?

AMANDA: ABSOLUTELY.

THAT IS A BIG ISSUE NOW.

LAST WEEK THE SENATE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES COMMITTEE HAD TWO BILLS.

ONE IS ON THE MINIMUM STAFFING STANDARDS.

THE NURSING HOMES WERE ABSOLUTELY AGAINST IT -- THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.

THE SECOND ONE WAS THE ESSENTIAL CAREGIVERS BILL WHICH, DURING AN EMERGENCY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH WOULD HAVE TO SET RULES ALLOWING CERTAIN TRAINED LOVED ONES TO GO IN AND TAKE CARE OF THE RESIDENTS.

THE GOVERNOR SIGNED AN ACTIVE ORDER LAST MONTH ALLOWING THIS, BUT IT IS OPTIONAL, AND HONESTLY, VERY FEW IF ANY NURSING HOMES ARE DOING THIS.

THEY SAY THEY DON'T HAVE TIME, THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE VACCINATED.

A LOT OF THEIR STAFF DOES NOT WANT TO GET VACCINATED.

THEY ARE ONLY HALFWAY THROUGH THE VACCINATIONS OF THEIR RESIDENCE.

THEY HAVE A LOT OF -- ON THEIR PLATE.

THE FAMILY MEMBERS ARE SAYING, LET US HELP YOU.

WE WILL GET TESTED, WE WILL WEAR THAT PPE.

WE ARE WILLING TO DO ANYTHING WE NEED TO, BECAUSE TIME IS RUNNING OUT FOR THESE FOLKS.

AND WHO KNOWS WHERE THIS LEGISLATION WILL GO?

JIM: SO THEY WANT TO SAY TO THE LEGISLATURE, NOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE ENGAGED, PAY ATTENTION TO THIS.

AMANDA: BECAUSE NOBODY IS PAYING ATTENTION.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A VOICE.

EVERYBODY ELSE HAS A VOICE IN THIS VACCINE -- THAT TEACHERS, THE BOARD MEMBERS ARE SPEAKING UP, EVERYBODY HAS A CHANCE TO SAY SOMETHING, EXCEPT FOR THESE POOR FOLKS IN THESE NURSING HOMES.

JIM: THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S DO A BRIDGE OUTRAGE.

TED: I GOT ON ALDRIDGE.

BY TWEETED THIS OUT LAST WEEK BUT I'M STILL PICKING ABOUT IT.

IT IS CRAZY THAT WE STILL DON'T HAVE SOME SYSTEM FROM THE FEDS ABOUT WHICH MASKS ARE BEST.

THEY HAVE ENERGY STAR STICKERS ON THE APPLIANCES WHEN YOU GO -- GOOD HOUSEKEEPING SEAL OF APPROVAL ON OTHER STUFF.

I GET IT.

LAST SPRING, THINGS WERE STILL IN FLUX, BUT I HAVE TRIED TO BUY BETTER MASKS WHEN I AM ON REPORTING IN THE FIELD, BECAUSE THE EXPERTS SAY A GOOD MASK CAN REALLY HELP.

YOU THE KN95 FROM CHINA, I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE IS GOOD AND WHICH OF HIS BED.

WHEN YOU GOOGLE, YOU CAN GET IN THE WEEDS.

LOOKS LIKE AT THIS POINT IN THE PANDEMIC, THERE SHOULD BE A SIMPLE WAY FOR THE CITIZEN WHEN TRYING TO BUY MASKS FOR THEMSELVES OR THEIR FAMILY THAT THIS ONE IS GOOD QUALITY.

FEELS LIKE PEOPLE ARE MORE ON THEIR OWN THAN NECESSARY.

JIM: I JUST READ THIS WEEK THAT THEY ARE SAYING THAT WITH THE VARIANT AND SOME OF THESE OTHER STRAINS, YOU MIGHT WANT TO DOUBLE-MASK.

TED: YES.

THEY SAY THAT EVEN A DOUBLE MASK, BUT WHAT KIND OF MASK?

THE CLOTH FACE COVERINGS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE TO SOME EXTENT A STOPGAP MEASURE WHEN THEY SWITCHED THE POLICIES SO QUICKLY UNMASKING LAST SPRING.

I TALKED TO COLLEAGUES WHO, IT IS NOT CLEAR TO THEM STILL THAT IF YOU CAN GET THEM, YOU ARE IN A PLACE THAT YOU MIGHT BE MORE EXPOSED, SWITCH TO A N95 OR A KN 95.

FEDERAL GUIDANCE COULD MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE AND WOULD MAKE IT EASIER TO GO ABOUT OUR LIVES AND HAVE FEWER RESTRICTIONS.

JIM: MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL SHOW UP TO THE BRIEFING TODAY WITH THE RESPIRATOR MASKS THAT COME OUT OUT OF A ZOMBIE MOVIE.

[LAUGHTER] PATRICK, DO YOU HAVE AN OUTRAGE OR KUDO THIS WEEK?

PATRICK: I HAVE AN OUTRAGE.

THE MASK AND ALSO THE STATE POLICY, EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT YOU SHOULD NOT WEAR A SURGICAL OR N95 OR KN95 MASK, THAT THEY SHOULD BE LEFT FOR HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS.

I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED.

MY COVERAGE, FIRST ONE IS KIND OF ALSO ON FEDERAL POLICY AROUND COVID.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE BETTER COMMUNICATION ON THE VACCINE APPROVAL PROCESS.

WE HAVE GOT TWO MORE VACCINES -- JOHNSON & JOHNSON AND -- ASTRAZENECA -- THAT ARE SITTING OUT THERE AND READY TO BE APPROVED.

TO A LAME MAN WHO IS NOT A NEXT BEST TO A LAYMAN -- TO A LAYMAN WHO IS NOT AN EXPERT, THE FDA'S APPROVAL PROCESS WHICH IS MORE RIGOROUS AND SLOWER THAN OTHER COUNTRIES IS NOT SATISFACTORY TO ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY, WITH SO MANY PEOPLE DYING EVERY DAY THAT THESE VACCINES CANNOT BE APPROVED FASTER.

AND I AM SURE THERE IS A VERY GOOD REASON FOR IT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S BEEN COMMUNICATED.

TED: I THINK ASTRAZENECA HAS ALREADY BEEN GIVEN IN THE PATRICK: IT MIGHT BE.

IT IS SIMILAR TO THE RUSSIAN -- I THINK IT IS, THE OXFORD-ASTRAZENECA, IT IS SIMILAR TO THE RUSSIAN ONE, WHICH WAS THE FIRST ONE THEY APPROVED.

I KNOW THEY SAID BUT THERE IS AN IS NOT APPROVED IS THE DATA IS QUOTE UNQUOTE MESSY.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT COVID THAT ARE MESSY, INCLUDING THE NUMBER OF DEATHS, IN THE HALT OF LIFE AS WE KNOW IT.

JIM: DID YOU HAVE A SECOND OUTRAGE?

PATRICK: ON RAIMONDO'S HEARINGS, NO MENTION OF CALAMARI.

I WANTED CALAMARI.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: A HUGE OUTRAGE AMANDA, WHAT IS ON YOUR MIND?

PATRICK: RECOVERED MY OUTRAGE, WHICH IS GOVERNOR RAIMONDO DISAPPEARING.

BUT SINCE SHE WILL BE SECRETARY RAIMONDO PRETTY SOON, THERE WE GO.

I WILL GIVE A KUDOS TO A FORMER COLLEAGUE OF MINE, TOM MOONEY AT THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL WHO WROTE A FASCINATING STORY THIS WEEK.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COVID, NOTHING TO DO WITH VACCINES.

THIS IS WHY I ENJOYED THE STORY.

IT WAS ON NICOLAS ALBARIAN.

A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, HE WAS VERY OUTSPOKEN ABOUT DCYF.

SUCH A STRANGE CHARACTER.

WHAT MIXING IT INTERESTING IS DEAD.

I KNOW THERE WAS A STORY GOING AROUND TO ALL THE LOCAL REPORTERS ABOUT, PLEASE WRITE ABOUT THAT HE HAS DIED AND YOU SHOULD WRITE ABOUT THIS.

TOM WHEN HE -- GIVE HIM CREDIT -- HE DUG INTO THE DEATH AND NO ONE IS QUITE SURE HE IS GONE.

I WILL NOT TELL YOU ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO READ THE STORY, BUT IT INVOLVES THE FBI, A FAKE WIKIPEDIA PAGE, AND INVOLVES A MYSTERY.

JIM: THAT IS A GREAT TEASE.

YOU SHOULD WORK IN TELEVISION.

IT WOULD BE A GREAT PRODUCER.

[LAUGHTER] FOLKS, WE WILL DO OUR SPECIAL ONLINE SEGMENT -- WE DID NOT GET -- TO ANY OF THE NATIONAL STAFF -- LIVELY EXTRA.

RIGHT NOW, GO TO RIP BS.ORG/LIVELY.

WE WILL CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION.

.

HOPE YOU CAN JOIN US.

FOR THE REST OF YOU, JOIN US NEXT WEEK AS A LEVY UP" CONTINUES -- "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND, EVERYBODY.

♪ [CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY, VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- JOHN: FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF IMPORTANT POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR., AND