JIM: THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" -- THE GOVERNOR TELLS DOZENS OF HOMELESS PEOPLE CAMPED OUT IN FRONT OF THE STATE, "TIME TO GO."

AND THREE FORMER PROVIDENCE MAYORS OFFERED ADVICE TO THE INCOMING MAYOR.

WE HAVE ONE OF THEM WITH US THIS WEEK.

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- JOHN: HI.

I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US ON THE PROGRAM -- PANEL, FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DOREEN COSTA, KEN BLOCK, FOUNDER OF WATCHDOG RI, AND FORMER PROVIDENCE MAYOR ANGEL TAVERAS.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS WE CLOSE "LIVELY."

I'M JIM HUMMEL.

HOMELESS PEOPLE CAMPED OUT IN FRONT OF THE STATEHOUSE, LITERALLY, TRYING TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THE STAPLES THE LACK OF SHELTERS AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

ON WEDNESDAY, GOVERNOR MCKEE ORDERED EVERYONE OUT.

I SHOULD KNOW BEFORE WE BEGIN, THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME COURT I -- COURT ACTION, PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN GOING IN FOR A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER.

THE LONGER -- LARGER ISSUE, KEN, WE HAVE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE, BUT I DO NOT KNOW WHY IT HAS SNOWBALLED.

KEN: ADVOCATES HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB PUTTING IT ON THE FRONT CORNER.

RHODE ISLANDERS HAVE STRUGGLED, THE EXPERIENCE WITH JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER STATE AND MOST LARGE AND SMALL CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IT IS A PROBLEM THAT DOES NOT HAVE A GOOD SOLUTION.

IT NEEDS ONE, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HAS PUT THEIR FINGER ON EXACTLY WHAT THAT SHOULD BE AT THIS POINT.

SO I THINK, FOR ALL THE FOCUS THAT HAS BEEN PUT ON IT, I'M NOT SURE ANYBODY HAS A GOOD ANSWER FOR WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT YET.

MS. COSTA: WELL, IT IS NEVER GOING TO GO AWAY.

YOU HAVE EVERYBODY RUNNING TO OFFICE, "I'M GOING TO HELP THE HOMELESS," AND THE HOMELESS ARE NEVER HELPED.

OCTOBER 1, HAVING TO GIVE THE GOVERNOR A LIST OF ALL THE BACON SCHOOLS IN THE STATE, SO HOPEFULLY WE CAN REVITALIZE SOME OF THEM.

THE PROBLEM IS, EVERYONE WANTS TO HELP THE HOMELESS, BUT NOBODY WANTS THEM IN THEIR BACKYARD.

OH, THEY ARE TOO CLOSE TO THE SCHOOL.

IT WAS OFTEN ONLINE -- JIM: A YEAR AGO.

MS. COSTA: YES.

AND WE HAD 800 BEDS FOR COVID WHEN COVID WAS IN RHODE ISLAND, AND THE BUILDING IS EMPTY.

800 BEDS, HEAT, SHOWERS, BUT AGAIN, THE CHAPEL HILL COME IN THE CONDOS, THEY PROBABLY WILL BE REALLY UPSET WITH US.

BUT WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THE SCHOOLS, THE VACANCIES, $610 MILLION IN SURPLUS.

THERE'S NO REASON WHY ANYBODY IN THE STATE SHOULD BE ON THE STREET RIGHT NOW.

MR. TAVERAS: LOOK, IT IS A CHALLENGING SITUATION, BECAUSE IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT HOUSING.

A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE ISSUES BEYOND ECONOMIC ISSUES, SO YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES AS WELL, RIGHT?

MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH THIS, IT IS NOT JUST ONE THING.

I AGREE WITH KEN, AND THAT IS THAT THE ACTIVISTS HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB BRING THIS ISSUE TO THE FOREFRONT, AND CAMPING OUT IN FRONT OF THE STATEHOUSE WAS PART OF THAT.

I KNOW THAT TODAY WE ARE GOING TO COURT, AND I HOPE THAT THE COURT CAN BE HELPFUL.

THEY CERTAINLY WERE TO US WITH THE OCCUPIED PROVIDENCE AT BURNSIDE PARK.

JIM: TALK ABOUT THAT.

YOU WERE THERE.

THAT WENT ON FOR A LONG TIME.

WHAT WERE THE LEGAL ISSUES?

HOW DO YOU FRAME IT?

TED: IT WAS NOT THE LEGAL ISSUES -- MR. TAVERAS: IT WAS NOT THE LEGAL ISSUES, IT WAS MORE, HOW DO WE RESOLVE THIS WITHOUT THE USE OF FORCE?

THESE ARE FORCES NEVER PRETTY.

YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT.

WE DID NOT USE FORCE.

WE WERE FORTUNATE THAT PRESIDING JUSTICE GIBNEY AT THE TIME PUT US IN MEDIATION P WE GOT A MEDIATED SETTLEMENT.

BISHOP TOBIN STEPPED INTO HELP US, AND I AM GRATEFUL FOR THAT.

WE WERE ABLE TO DO IT PEACEFULLY AND WITHOUT FORCE.

SO THE FACT THAT THEY ARE IN COURT, I HOPE THEY WILL USE THAT PROCESS, BECAUSE THEY WILL LEGITIMIZE THE PROCESS EVEN MORE.

IT WILL GIVE PEOPLE A LOT OF NOTICE IN TERMS OF WHAT IS GOING ON.

THEY WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, AND, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, THEY ARE GOING TO BE LEAVING, THE QUESTION IS HOW AND WHEN, BUT HOPEFULLY CAN BE DONE IN A PEACEFUL WAY, WHERE FORCE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE USED.

KEN: I WANT TO EMPHASIZE WHAT ANGEL HAD TALKED ABOUT, IN TERMS OF THE ADDITIONAL CHALLENGES.

IT IS NOT JUST ECONOMIC, RIGHT?

THE SOLUTION CANNOT JUST BE PUTTING A ROOF OVER PEOPLE'S HEADS, BECAUSE YOU NEED TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES, YOU NEED TO DO, AND A LOT OF CASES, DRUG TREATMENTS.

YOU NEED TO BRING A LOT OF PERSONNEL IN.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO PUT A POPULATION OF PEOPLE UNDER ONE ROOF WHO HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIVERSE NEEDS, YOU ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT SECURITY AT ALL MANNER OF THINGS.

IT IS A VERY COMPLICATED ISSUE TO ADDRESS AND TO KEEP EVERYBODY SAFE AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT YOU DO IS EFFECTIVE AND THAT YOU ARE NOT JUST SPENDING MONEY THAT ONE ACHIEVE YOUR RESULT.

JIM: MY FIRST INCLINATION IS, DOREEN, YOU WERE UP THERE FOR A LOT OF YEARS OF NO MONEY OR BIG DEFICITS.

WE GOT AN EXTRA $600 MILLION SLOSHING AROUND.

WHY CAN'T WE DO THIS?

MONEY ALONE DOES NOT SOLVE PROBLEMS.

EVEN WITH THE ARMORY, WE CANNOT PROVIDE THE SERVICES THAT KEN TALKED ABOUT, SO, YOU KNOW, MONEY DOES NOT ALWAYS SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

MS. COSTA: MONEY CAN GIVE THEM A WARM BED AND A SHOWER, AT LEAST FOR A COUPLE OF NIGHTS, AND THEN WE HAVE TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, WHO NEEDS DRUG COUNSELING?

pWHO JUST NEEDS FIRST AND LAST MONTH'S RENT, BECAUSE THEY GOT EVICTED BECAUSE OF THE COVID?

THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES, LIKE THE MAYOR SAID, THAT IT IS NOT JUST PUTTING A ROOF OVER THE HEAD, BUT FOR NOW, I WOULD RATHER HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO.

THE GOVERNOR HAS $610 MILLION SURPLUS.

WHEN HE WAS CAMPAIGNING, HE TALKED SO MUCH ABOUT THE HOMELESS, HE WAS GOING TO HELP THEM AND GET THEM THE HELP THEY NEEDED.

NOW IS THE TIME.

JIM: AND THE $1 BILLION ARPA FUND HAS GIVEN THE STATE $200 MILLION, FOUR HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS FOR THAT.

LEGALLY, IF YOU ARE ON THE GOVERNOR'S SIDE, AND I KNOW YOU HAVE TO ARGUE BOTH SIDES IN LAW SCHOOL, IF YOU ARE THE GOVERNOR'S LAWYER, WHAT ARE YOU DOING, AND IF YOU ARE THE ADVOCATE FOR THE HOMELESS, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

MR. TAVERAS: I HAVE NOT RESEARCHED IT ALL, BUT ON THE GOVERNOR'S SIDE, THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY TRESPASSING, AND YOU CANNOT HAVE THAT THERE.

THERE ARE SAFETY ISSUES AS WELL -- LIKE JIM: PUBLIC HEALTH.

MR. TAVERAS: ABSOLUTELY, AND THAT IS AN ISSUE FOR THEM AND THOSE USING THE STATEHOUSE AS WELL.

IF YOU ARE ON THE OTHER PSYCHO LIKE YOU ARE ARGUING THAT THEY ARE PROTESTING AND AT THIS IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT THAT THEY HAVE TO PROTEST, AND THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS, AND THEY WILL BE IN FACT, REMOVED, AS THE GOVERNOR, AND THE NOTICE, I THINK, SAID ANYWAY TODAY.

I THINK THEY ARE ARGUING DIFFERENT SIDES THERE.

I THINK, OWES MILLIE, THEY ARE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER AND FIND A SOLUTION THAT DOES NOT HAVE A FORCIBLE REMOVAL.

JIM: HOW LONG WAS THAT GOING ON?

MR. TAVERAS: IT WAS MONTHS, AND ONE THING ON OUR SIDE WAS THE WEATHER.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING, ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAD TO DO AT ONE POINT WAS GO AND MAKE SURE -- THEY WERE A COUPLE OF REALLY COLD NIGHTS.

WE WERE WORRIED SOMEONE WAS GOING TO DIE!

SO WE ACTUALLY CAN OUR PUBLIC SAFETY DEPARTMENT WENT BY WITH THERMAL IMAGING, SHOW THAT THERE WERE CIVIL-RIGHTS ISSUES WITH THAT, BUT THERE WAS TIME TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE OK, AND ACTUALLY WE FOUND THAT MOST OF THE TENANT -- TENTS WERE EMPTY, THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT ANYWAY.

JIM: WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT IT LAST SPRING, NOW THE EFFECTS OF LEGISLATION, ONE OF THE PIECES ON GUN CONTROL IS COMING DUE, SOMETIME THIS MONTH OR NEXT MONTH.

DOREEN, I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING IT.

IT IS THE EXECUTION OF THE 10+ ROUND, THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL, EVEN FOR THOSE WHO HAVE HAD IT FOR YEARS.

MASSACHUSETTS DID THIS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.

GRANDFATHERED IN THOSE WHO HAVE IT.

YOU HAVE GOT ATTORNEY GENERAL RAMOS SAID HE WILL ENFORCE IT.

HOW IS ENFORCEMENT GOING TO WORK?

MS. COSTA: IT'S NOT KID I CANNOT IMAGINE CHIEF LANE AGAIN KNOCKING ON MY DOOR, HEY, DOREEN, YOU HAVE TO GIVE UPYOUR 10 ROUND MAGAZINES.

HAND THEM OVER.

I CANNOT IMAGINE ANY POLICE CHIEF OR POLICE DEPARTMENT AT IS GOING TO DO THIS.

NUMBER ONE, IF THEY WANT TO TAKE IT, IT IS CALLED CONSTITUTION WITHOUT COMPENSATION.

THERE ARE SO MANY OF US THAT HAVE SPENT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON OUR FIREARMS, WITH OUR AMMO, CLIPS, THE MAGAZINES, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM.

ANOTHER THING I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SAY, THIS IS JEOPARDIZING OUR LEGAL FIREARM OWNERS RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE NOT THE ISSUE.

MOST OF THE SHOOTERS -- SHOOTINGS YOU SEE, STOLEN FIREARMS, SERIAL NUMBERS ARE ERASED, AND THEY ARE COMING TO GET US.

I JUST UNDERSTAND HOW.

AND THE REPRESENTATIVE, I HAVE TO SAVE HER NAME, REPRESENTATIVE JUSTINE SPECIFICALLY SAID HER NEXT SCENE WAS COMING FOR OUR AR'S.

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THEY ARE?

I HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG.

JIM: HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT RAISING THE AGE OF 18 TO 21?

MS. COSTA: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

MY PROBLEM IS TAKING GUNS AWAY FROM LEGAL GUN OWNERS.

HOW IS THAT CONSTITUTIONAL?

IT IS NOT.

SHE DID NOT DO MASSACHUSETTS, WHERE IF YOU GRANDFATHERED THE TIN CAPACITY MAGAZINE, THEN WE WOULD BE OK. THAT IS NOT GRANDFATHERED IN.

JIM:JIM: AND THERE IS A LAWSUIT NOW, AND, AGAIN, I KNOW THIS IS NOT YOUR SUIT, BUT YOU WONDER HOW THAT IS GOING TO PLAY OUT, IN TERMS OF THE EXECUTION.

MR. TAVERAS: I THINK THAT IS RIGHT, LOOK, A MORE THAN 10 ROUND MAGAZINE, AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT IN AR, JUST A HANDGUN, THOSE ARE EXTREMELY COMMON.

I HAVE TO TURN IN ONE NOW, RIGHT?

AND I'M GLAD WE CAME ON THE SHOW, BECAUSE I DID NOT REALIZE THAT IS THE CASE.

[LAUGHTER] SO IT IS EXTREMELY COMMON.

I WISH IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GRANDFATHERED IN, BECAUSE THAT IS NOT REALLY WHAT WE ARE, I THINK, AIMING TO GET.

WHAT WE REALLY DO WANT TO GET ARE ASSAULT WEAPONS, LIKE THE AR-15, I'M SORRY, DOREEN, BUT THOSE TYPES OF WEAPONS THAT HAVE BEEN USED CONTINUOUSLY, MANY TIMES EVEN PURCHASE LEGALLY, RIGHT?

THEY ARE ACTUALLY PURCHASED ILLEGALLY BUT USED CONTINUOUSLY IN THESE CRIMES AND HAVE NO PLACE THEM IN MY OPINION, ON OUR STREETS.

THAT IS WHAT I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TARGETING.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WAIT PERIODS OR AGE, ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

IN FACT, I ACTUALLY DON'T WANT SOMEONE WHO WANTS A WEAPON TO BE ABLE TO GET IT RIGHT AWAY AND THEY CANNOT WAIT SIX OR SEVEN DAYS YOU KIND OF WONDER, WHY CAN'T YOU WAIT?

KEN: IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU WRITE THAT EMAIL COME "WAIT OVERNIGHT."

MS. COSTA: RIGHT.

KEN: I WENT TO A BAR MITZVAH IN NEW YORK CITY THIS PAST WEEKEND, I WALKED THROUGH A METAL DETECTOR TO WALK IN, THERE WERE MULTIPLE ARMED NEW YORK CITY POLICEMAN OUTSIDE THE DOOR.

THERE WERE ARMED PRIVATE SECURITY MEMBERS INSIDE THE SYNAGOGUE.

THEY HAD SPECIALIZED CURTAINS THAT CAME DOWN OVER THE WINDOWS IF THEY NEEDED ITHEM.

IT WAS WALKING INTO A FORTRESS.

MY WIFE TEACHES SIXTH GRADE.

THEY GO THROUGH A QUARTERLY DRILL WHERE SHE LOCKS THE DOORS, THE KIDS ARE TAUGHT WHERE TO GO IN CASE THERE IS AN INTRUDER WHO IS LOOKING TO DO THEM HARM.

THIS IS NOT A FREE SOCIETY.

WE ARE LIVING UNDER SIEGE, AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM, RIGHT?

THE UNITED STATES IS IMMERSED IN VIOLENCE AND IN PEOPLE BEING KILLED IN GREAT NUMBERS, SO IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT PROBLEM TO ADDRESS, BUT THE STATUS QUO IS NOT WORKING.

SO I THINK WE NEED EVERYBODY TO COME TOGETHER AND COME TO SOME AGREEMENT ABOUT COMMON SENSE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE LIFE BETTER, BUT THE THING THAT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO CONTEND WITH IS, WHAT I JUST DESCRIBED TO YOU IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE IN A SOCIETY THAT ISN'T AMERICA, THAT WOULD BE SOME OTHER PLACE.

SO I THINK WE ARE MOVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHEN IT COMES TO GUNS AND GUN VIOLENCE, AND WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

JIM: FOR SURE.

GO AHEAD.

MS. COSTA: CAN I JUST SAY SOMETHING?

THERE IS NEVER A COMPROMISE WITH THE MOMS DEMAND.

THERE ARE REPRESENTATIVES THAT WRITE TO MOMS DEMAND, THAT WENT TO REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL, THAT ASK THEM TO GRANDFATHER THEM IN.

IT IS ALL NOTHING WITH THEM.

THERE IS NO COMPROMISE.

JIM: LET ME PUSH BACK ON THAT.

WITH THE SECOND AMENDED GROUP, I THINK THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

THERE HAS BEEN VERY LITTLE COMPROMISE ON EACH SIDE KID I THINK THE FEELING IS, THERE IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

ONCE YOU START CHANGING AGE REQUIREMENTS, WHATEVER, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO COME IN AND TAKE ALL MY FIREARMS.

I THINK THAT IS THE MENTALITY ON BOTH SIDES.

MS. COSTA: WELL, THEY ARE GOING TO CONFISCATE OUR ROUNDS!

JIM: BUT THE CITY HAD DONE THAT ALL THOSE YEARS AGO.

REMEMBER FOR 10 YEARS, THAT HAPPENED.

THAT WAS FEDERAL LAW.

THAT WAS A WORKABLE THING THAT HAPPENED, AND I THINK THE HORSE HAS REALLY GOTTEN OUT OF THE BARN SINCE THEN.

MS. COSTA: BUT MY THING IS, YOU'RE COMING FOR THE MAGAZINES, THE AR, THE SMITH & WESSON, THE GLOCKS, WHEN IS IT GOING TO END, BECAUSE IT IS NEVER ENOUGH?

MR. TAVERAS: I'M NOT LOOKING FOR THE GLOCK OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT I THINK THE AR-15 IS DIFFERENT.

I THINK JIM POINTED OUT SOMETHING, THERE IS DATA IN TERMS OF WHAT TYPES OF SHOOTINGS WE HAD DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, WHERE WE HAD A BAN, AND WHAT HAPPENED SINCE.

I DO THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A SIG HANDGUN OR A GLOCK AND AN AR 15 VERSUS AN ASSAULT WEAPON IN MY VIEW.

THERE'S A LOT OF DEFINITIONS, "WHAT IS ASSAULT WEAPONS?"

I THINK THE SECOND AMENDED GROUPS NEED TO READ THE FULL SECOND LIMIT, "A WELL REGULATED MILITIA," RIGHT, THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE INFRINGED.

AND I MAY HAVE MISSED A WORD, BUT I KNOW IT SAYS "WELL REGULATED MILITIA" AT THE VERY BEGINNING.

WE HAVE WELL REGULATED MILITIA.

THEY'RE CALLED THE U.S. ARMY, THE U.S. NAVY, THE U.S. MARINES, THE COAST GUARD, THE AIR FORCE.

THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE.

I'M ALWAYS AMAZED THAT WE HAVE THESE FOLKS WHO ARE ORIGINALISTS, AND THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANT, BUT THEY IGNORE WORDS THAT ARE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO DO BETTER.

WE HAVE SEEN WHAT CAN HAPPEN.

KEN POINTED OUT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ONE OF THE ONLY COUNTRIES ON EARTH THAT HAVE THES TYPES OF SHOOTINGS CONTINUOUSLY.

DON'T TELL ME WE CAN'T DO SOMETHING TO SOLVE IT.

MS. COSTA: I THINK A LOT OF IT IS, PEOPLE WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS, NUMBER ONE, AND ALSO WE NEED BETTER SECURITY IN ALL THE SCHOOLS, PERIOD.

WE HAD A PROVIDENCE TEACHER WHO WAS STABBED LAST WEEK.

THANK GOD HE IS GOING TO BE OK, BUT THERE IS NO SECURITY.

WHEN YOU WANT TO PUT SECURED IN SCHOOLS, THE KIDS DON'T WANT IT, BECAUSE THEY FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE.

HOW DO WE FIX THE SITUATION?

JIM: DO YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT?

KEN: YOU CAN GO TO MANY OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE YOU DON'T NEED SECURITY IN SCHOOLS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IS THE UNITED STATES TRULY FREE, AND ARE WE REALLY MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, WHEN WE HAVE TO, ESSENTIALLY, LIVE IN A HUGE, RIGHT?

-- A SIEGE, RIGHT?

MY WIFE'S SENSE, AS A SCHOOLTEACHER, THEY ARE IN A SIEGE ENVIRONMENT.

JIM: SCHOOL USED TO BE THE SAFE HAVEN.

KEN: RIGHT, RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO MAKE OUR SCHOOLS ARMED CAMPS.

WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES, WHY ARE WE IN THIS SITUATION, AND CAN WE DO SOMETHING REASONABLE TO GET OURSELVES OUT OF THE SITUATION?

MS. COSTA: ONE MORE THING ON THAT, KEN, WHEN YOU ARE A LEGISLATOR, WHAT YOU DO IS LOOK TO OTHER STATES AND COUNTRIES TO SEE WHAT WORKS.

IF YOU LOOK AT ISRAEL, FOR INSTANCE, YOU NEVER HEAR OF A SCHOOL SHOOTING IN ISRAEL, BECAUSE THERE'S METAL DETECTORS.

THERE'S ONE WAY IN IN THE MORNING AND ONE WAY OUT IN THE AFTERNOON.

THE KIDS DON'T SEEM TO MIND.

THEY PUT THEIR BREAD BACK DOWN, WALK -- BOOKBAG DOWN, WALK THROUGH THE METAL DETECTOR.

YOU CAN'T ALWAYS BLAME THE GUN OWNERS.

JIM: SOME COULD SAY THAT IS THE SOCIETY THEY LIVE IN.

MS. COSTA: WE COULD GO ON ALL DAY.

JIM: WE COULD.

WE HAVE ANGEL, TWO OF YOUR FORMER MAYORS HAD A MEETING WITH MR. SMILEY.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DRAG HIM IN KICKING AND SCREAMING.

THAT IS GOOD KID WE COULD DO A WHOLE OTHER SHOW ON THAT.

SINCE WE HAVE YOU ON, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE UNION PUSH BACK ON SOME OF WHAT YOU SAID OR MAYBE ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID.

YOU AND MAYOR ELORZA AND MAYO PLAYER LINO -- AND ANOTHER MAYOR MET WITH INCOMING MAYOR SMILEY.

WHAT IS THE GENESIS OF THIS, AND WHY DID YOU DO IT?

MR. TAVERAS: SURE.

MAYOR ELORZA ASKED ME AND MAYOR PAOLINO.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS IMPORTANT HERE THAT IS WHAT WE DID IT FOR ME, IF I HAD ONE REGRET IN TERMS OF MY TIME AS MAYOR, WAS THAT I COULD NOT DO MORE IN TERMS OF EDUCATION.

EVEN HAVING SAID THAT, I AM PROUD OF THE WORK THAT WE DIDN'T DO, PARTICULARLY YOUTH STARTING ACHIEVEMENT FIRST, WHICH HAS A LONGER SCHOOL DAY, LONGER SCHOOL YEAR, HAS PRINCIPAL AUTONOMY, AND WE HAVE SEEN THE RESULTS SINCE THEN.

I WOULD HOPE THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE FOR THE REST OF THE DISTRICT, TO REALIZE WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE THINGS WE ARE DOING.

WE CANNOT EXPECT DIFFERENT RESULTS -- JIM: YOU ARE RECOMMENDING SIGNIFICANT CHANGE?

MR. TAVERAS: ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, WE ARE RECOMMENDING SIGNIFICANT CHANGE, BECAUSE KIDS CANNOT WAIT ANY LONGER.

THE KIDS WHO WERE IN FIRST GRADE WHEN I TOOK OFFICE, IF THEY MADE IT THROUGH THE SYSTEM, ARE GRADUATING NOW.

I THINK ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME.

HAVE WE PREPARED THEM FOR THE FUTURE?

WE KNOW AT CCRI, SO MANY KIDS ARE DOING REMEDIAL WORK.

THANKFULLY, MOST OF THEM ARE NOW PAYING -- JIM: BECAUSE IT IS AN EXTENSION OF HIGH SCHOOL.

MR. TAVERAS: EXACTLY, BUT THEY ARE DOING REMEDIAL WORK, BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT PREPARED, SO WE NEED TO DO MORE.

ONE THING YOU WILL NOT HEAR THE TEACHERS TALK ABOUT IS THE LONGER SCHOOL YEAR OR THE PRINCIPAL HAVING NO ECONOMY DID WHAT YOU WILL HEAR, THOUGH, IS THE OUT OF SCHOOL FACTOR MOST CLOSELY CORRELATED TO THE SUCCESS OF THE STUDENT IS THE SOCIAL ECONOMIC STATUS OF THE MOTHER, AND THAT, TO ME, IS AN ISSUE TO SAY THE ISSUE REALLY IS THE CHILD, IT IS WHERE WE COME FROM, SO THAT TELLS ME -- AND I TAKE IT PERSONALLY, BECAUSE THAT TELLS ME, MY MOM WORKED IN FACTORIES, YOU KNOW, HAD A LOW SOCIAL ECONOMIC STATUS, YOU KNOW, I SHOULD SETTLE FOR LESS.

I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT FOR MYSELF.

I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT FOR OUR CHILDREN.

I KNOW WE CAN DO BETTER, AND WE PROPOSED SOME IDEAS ON HOW TO DO BETTER.

JIM: THE GOVERNOR MISSED A HUGE -- WE TALKED ABOUT THAT TRANSFORMATIONAL CONTRACT, THAT WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

KEN: IT IS OUTRAGEOUS THAT, WHILE THE STATE IS RUNNING THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOLS, AND THERE WAS A RENEGOTIATION OF THE CONTRACT ON THE TABLE, AND, THEORETICALLY, THE LEGAL FRAMEWORK TO EXPLODE THE EXISTING CONTRACT AND TO BRING A NEW CONTRACT IN AND FORCE IT ON EVERYBODY, THAT WAS THE TIME TO MAKE TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE IN PROVIDENCE.

WE FAILED TO DO IT.

I ABSOLUTELY FAIL AND FAULT GOVERNOR MCKEE FOR NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS, AND REALLY PROVIDENCE SCHOOL KIDS CONTINUE TO SUFFER BECAUSE OUR POLITICIANS DID NOT HAVE THE POLITICAL COURAGE NECESSARY TO DO WHAT WAS RIGHT BY THEM.

IT IS REALLY BAD.

MS. COSTA: THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOL SYSTEM IS STILL RUN BY THE STATE.

IT NEEDS TO GO BACK TO PROVIDENCE, BECAUSE WHAT THE STATE IS TRYING TO DO IS NOT WORKING.

NOTHING IS WORKING.

THE TEST SCORES ARE EXTREMELY LOW.

YOU CAN BLAME COVID FOR THAT -- JIM: THE PANDEMIC FOR A YEAR -- MS. COSTA: YOU KNOW WHAT?

THEY WERE LOW FOR A YEAR BEFORE THAT.

GIVE IT BACK TO PROVIDENCE.

I MEAN, MAYOR-ELECT SMILEY AND I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN COMMON, POLITICALLY, BUT I HONESTLY WISH HIM THE BEST.

PLEASE FIX THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

BRING IT BACK TO PROVIDENCE, LET THE MAYOR HAVE THE CONCEPT, WHAT HE CAN DO, WHAT HE CAN TRY TO DO TO MAKE IT WORK.

AND IF THE SCORES DON'T GET BETTER, THEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

THE STATE IS NOT HELPING AND THE MAYOR IS NOT HELPING, SO LET'S HOPE MAYOR-ELECT SMILEY CAN DO SOMETHING.

JIM: WE HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT THIS.

SHOULD THE STATE CONTINUE?

DO YOU THINK IT NEEDS TO GO BACK TO PROVIDENCE?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE STATE TAKEOVER?

MR. TAVERAS: YEAH, LET'S JUST -- JIM:JIM: IT IS A TOUGH QUESTION.

MR. TAVERAS: IT IS A TOUGH QUESTION.

PROVIDENCE PASSED AN ELECTED SCHOOL BOARD FOR FOUR OR FIVE MEMBERS.

THEY WANT TO DRAW NOW NEW DISTRICTS IN THE CITY AND HAVE ELECTED SCHOOL BOARDS, AS IF THE UNIONS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFLUENCE, WE ARE GOING TO NOW HAVE THESE ELECTIONS THAT ARE TYPICALLY LOW TURNOUT ELECTIONS, WHERE FOLKS AREN'T AS FOCUSED ON THEM, WITH NEW DISTRICTS.

IT IS NOT EVEN GOING TO BE DISTRICTS, YOU WILL HAVE FOLKS ELECTED, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING I WAS AGAINST AS WELL-PAID I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO MAKE TOUGH CHOICES COULD WHEN WE DID ACHIEVEMENT FIRST, WE GOT A 5-4 VOTE.

GEORGE CARRILLO WAS THE DECIDING VOTE.

THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND.

5-4, AND WE WORK HARD TO DO THAT.

PEOPLE TOLD ME THAT SHOULD NOT DO IT, I SHOULD NOT DO IT, IT WAS NOT GOOD POLITICALLY.

AND I'M LIKE, HOW CAN HELPING KIDS NOT BE GOOD POLITICALLY?

NOW, I AM SITTING HERE AS A FORMER MAYOR, SO I GUESS MAYBE THEY ARE RIGHT, RIGHT?

[LAUGHTER] BUT IT DOES NOT MATTER TO ME, BECAUSE I KNOW THIS MUCH, I KNOW THE KIDS WHO HAVE GONE TO THAT SCHOOL HAVE DONE VERY WELL AND HAVE A FUTURE.

I ALSO THINK WE HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WORKS, ND SOONER OR LATER, I THINK, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FOCUS ON THAT.

I WANT TO SAY ONE THING ABOUT GOVERNOR MCKEE, TO DEFEND HIM ON THIS, HE STARTED THE MAYORAL ACADEMIES.

HE WAS A VERY BIG PROPONENT OF THAT.

THAT IS WHAT ACHIEVEMENT FIRST IS PEER THAT'S WHAT BLACKSTONE VALLEY PREP IS.

I BELIEVE I KNOW WHERE HIS HEART IS, BASED ON HIS ACTIONS OF THE PAST.

I DO THINK THE CONTRACT WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY, I WILL SAY THAT, BUT I ALSO KNOW WHAT HE HAS DONE OVERALL.

I KNOW THAT HE CARES ABOUT EDUCATION, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT THEY DO, AND WHATEVER I CAN DO TO BE HELPFUL, I WANT TO DO, BUT I KNOW WE CAN DO BETTER.

JIM: LET'S GO TO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

MS. COSTA, WE WILL START WITH YOU.

MS. COSTA: KUDOS TO ELON MUSK FOR BRINGING TWITTER BACK THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, AND KUDOS TO MR. MUSK FOR BREAKING -- NOT BREAKING, THE HUNTER BIDEN STORY THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUT MANY YEARS AGO, BECAUSE PEOPLE KNEW IT BUT COULD HAVE HIT IT.

WE THANK HIM FOR THAT, AND LET'S SEE WHERE IT GOES.

JIM: IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE, BECAUSE THEN THERE IS AN ECONOMIC FACTOR ABOUT, ARE THE ADVERTISERS GOING TO COME, BECAUSE HE HAS GOT TO MAKE IT WORK FINANCIALLY.

MS. COSTA: HE'S A SMART MAN.

I THINK IT WILL WORK.

JIM: KE WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

NKEN: I HAVE A KUDO TO EVERY PERSON IN THE LAST ELECTION WHO RAN FOR OFFICE.

AS EVERYONE SITTING HERE KNOWS, IT IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO RUN FOR OFFICE OR YOU TO PUT YOURSELF OUT THERE, YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH ALL MANNER OF RIDICULOUSNESS -- JIM: ALL THREE OF YOU KNOW THAT, RIGHT?

[LAUGHTER] KEN: IT IS REALLY HARD.

WE ARE REALLY FORTUNATE THAT PEOPLE RUN.

MORE PEOPLE SHOULD RUN.

GOOD PEOPLE SHOULD RUN.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LOST HIM AND I THINK WE HAVE ALL TASTED THE BITTERNESS OF HAVING LOST AS WELL, IT IS OK, AND COME BACK, RIGHT?

IT IS IMPORTANT TO OUR DEMOCRACY.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS AND EVEN DOESN'T WORK, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS EVERYBODY PUT IN.

JIM: AND FROM A VERY SELFISH STANDPOINT, DOREEN, I KNOW YOU LOST YOUR RACE, BUT THAT MEANS YOU GET TO COME BACK AND JOIN US ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

THAT'S ALL WE CARE ABOUT.

MS. COSTA: I GET TO JOIN YOU, HUMMEL.

[LAUGHS] MR. TAVERAS:MR. TAVERAS: MY KUDOS IS TO MITT ROMNEY.

ONE, THAT REPUBLICANS ARE FOCUSED ON HUNTER BIDEN INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON INFLATION, ON ENERGY COSTS COME ON OTHER THINGS IS A BIG MISTAKE.

THE OTHER THING HE SAID WAS HE WAS ASKED WHETHER OR NOT HE WOULD SUPPORT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IF HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT AGAIN, HE SAID "ABSOLUTELY NOT."

THIS IS NOT SOMEONE WHO SHOULD HAVE THE PRESIDENCY, SHOULD HAVE THE POWER OF THE PRESIDENCY, AND KUDOS TO MR. ROMNEY, BECAUSE IT IS NOT AN EASY THING TO DO, AS WE HAVE SEEN, BECAUSE VERY FEW REPUBLICANS WILL SPEAK THE TRUTH, BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO FORMER PRESIDENT, REALIZE THIS IS NOT SOMEONE WHO SHOULD BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT NECESSARILY BEING A CONSERVATIVE OR ANYTHING ELSE, I'M SAYING HE HAS SHOWN US OVER AND OVER, HECK, I THINK HE HAS MADE HISTORY BY SUGGESTING THE SUSPENSION OF THE CONSTITUTION.

JIM: YEAH.

WE WILL SEE HOW FAR THAT GET SCARED WE HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHERE CONGRESS IS GOING TO GO NOW.

NARROW MARGIN IN THE HOUSE, THE SENATE, ALTHOUGH I HEARD THAT CHRISTIANS AND EMMA IS GOING TO BE AN INDEPENDENT.

-- KRISTIN SYNEMA IS GOING TO BE AN INDEPENDENT.

MS. COSTA: I HEARD THAT, AND MANCHIN.

JIM: THE HOUSE HAS BEEN, LET'S INVESTIGATE THIS, LET'S INVESTIGATE THAT.

IS IT GOING TO PUT THINGS FARTHER APART?

MS. COSTA: FIRST THING IS FIRST, WE NEED SOMEBODY RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT WAS GOING TO UNIFY US.

I WILL SUPPORT THE NOMINEE, WHO EVER THAT WILL BE TO I HAVE TWO PEOPLE IN MIND, NIKKI HALEY, ANOTHER ONE WOULD BE RON DESANTIS.

I KNOW A LOT OF DEMOCRATS DO NOT LIKE HIM, BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE ANYBODY.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT THE PERSON THAT IS THE NOMINEE, AND I WILL DO THE SAME EXACT THING.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT GOVERNMENT?

HOW DO YOU FEEL OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS?

KEN: IT IS GOING TO BE DIVIDED.

I THINK THERE WILL BE RETRIBUTION IN THE HOUSE FOR SURE, AND I THINK WE ALL SUFFER FOR IT, ULTIMATELY.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE, OF COURSE, YOU CAN SEE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THIS GOING BACK DECADES, RIGHT?

WE WANT TO SEE COOPERATIVE GOVERNMENT, WE WANT TO SEE COMPROMISE, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

WE WANT TO SEE A DIFFERENCE MADE, BUT INSTEAD, THERE IS GOOD LUCK.

JIM: YOU GET THE LAST 30 SECONDS.

MR. TAVERAS: I THINK WE HAVE SEEN A BIPARTISAN BILL IN TERMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE HAVE SEEN THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT.

WE'VE SEEN, PROGRESS BEING MADE OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

THE FIRST THING THE REPUBLICANS DID IN THE HOUSE WAS HAVE A PRESS CONFERENCE ON HUNTER BIDEN, NOT ABOUT INFLATION, NOT ABOUT FIGHTING ENERGY COSTS, NOT ABOUT HEALTH CARE BUT ABOUT HUNTER BIDEN.

HUNTER BIDEN HAS NOT SERVED IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF PRESIDENT BIDEN.

THOSE THINGS WOULD BE WORTH INVESTIGATING.

HUNTER BIDEN IS A PRIVATE CITIZEN WHO HAS HAD SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES THAT HE HAS DOCUMENT, AND WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IS TRY TO BEAR IS HAND, AND THAT IS A MISTAKE -- EMBARRASS HIM, AND THAT IS A MISTAKE.

JIM: YOU WILL CONTINUE AFTER THE SHOW.

[LAUGHTER] FOLKS, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

ANGEL, TERRAIN, KEN, THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR LOYALTY TO THE SHOW.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND JOIN US NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] ♪ >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- JOHN: HI.

I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT