JIM: THIS WEEK, A REJECTION BY RHODE ISLAND'S I OF THE PROPOSED MERGER BY THE TWO LARGEST HOSPITAL GROUPS IN THE STATE.

AND ALLEN FUNG IS RUNNING FOR CONGRESS.

ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY.

MR. WHITE: FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIEMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US FOR THE ROUNDTABLE BILL BARTHOLOMEW, OF , "THE BARTHOLOMEWTOWN PODCAST."

PATRICK ANDERSON OF "THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL."

AND WPRI TARGET 12 INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, STEPH MACHADO.

WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL LEFT NO DOUBT ON THURSDAY THAT HE BELIEVES A MERGER BETWEEN CARE NEW ENGLAND AND LIFESPAN WOULD LEAD TO HIGHER COSTS FOR PATIENTS AND POOR HEALTH CARE.

HE SPELLED IT OUT IN A REJECTION THAT NOW HAS THE TWO INSTITUTIONS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS NEXT.

COINCIDENTLY, ALL THREE OF YOU WERE WORKING ON THE STORY YESTERDAY.

BILL, I AM NOT SURE THIS WAS ON MY BINGO CARD FOR 2022.

GIVE ME YOUR INITIAL BLUSH.

AND YOU ARE AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE.

BILL: SOME PEOPLE ARE DESCRIBING IT AS SURPRISING, BUT I DO NOT THINK IT WAS SURPRISING.

I THINK IT HAD A 50-50 SHOT.

THIS IS ABOUT COMPETITION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SPECIFICS OF WHAT THIS INTEGRATED ACADEMIC HEALTH SYSTEM WOULD HAVE BEEN, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PERHAPS THE GREATEST MONOPOLY OF HEALTH CARE IN THE COUNTRY.

SO WITH THAT BEING THE UNDERPIN OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DECISION, IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT THIS DID NOT GO THROUGH.

BECAUSE, LOOK MY THE ANTITRUST ELEMENT OF IT -- LOOK, THE ANTITRUST ELEMENT OF IT, WHAT IT DOES TO THE WESTERLY HOSPITAL, IT IS NOT AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE, THE NURSES UNION BEING ONE OF THEM AND OF THE INSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES, SOME EVEN IN ELECTED OFFICES, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS OVER FOR NOW.

JIM: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL REALLY SAVAGED THE HOSPITALS NOT DOING THEIR HOMEWORK.

STEPH: HE SAID HE WAS REPEATEDLY ASKING WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING TO BE THE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN TO PREVENT ALL THE CONCERNS HE HAD ABOUT THE HIGHER PRICES, LESS COMPETITION, AND HE SAID HE WAS NOT GETTING ANSWERS FROM LIFESPAN AND CARE NEW ENGLAND AND IT SAID IT BROWN WAS NOT REALLY PART OF IT.

THEY WERE NEVER PARTY TO THE ACTUAL TRANSACTION, BUT THEY WERE THE ACADEMIC INSTITUTION THAT WAS GOING TO BE A PARTNER IN ALL OF THIS.

HE DID NOT SEEM IMPRESSED BY THEIR PLAN.

AND HE DID NOT MINCE WORDS WHEN HE REJECTED THE APPLICATION.

JIM: LISTENING TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GO THROUGH ALL THOSE THINGS, IT MADE ME THINK THAT THEY HAD TO KNOW, THEY BEING BROWN, LIFESPAN, CARE NEW ENGLAND AND EXECUTIVES HAD DIDN'T KNOW AT SOME POINT THIS WAS NOT LOOKING GOOD.

THE CHANCES OF IT BEING APPROVED WAS NOT GREAT.

A LITTLE SURPRISING NOW LOOKING BACK THAT THERE WERE NOT MORE RUMBLINGS OF THEM DOING SOMETHING TO CHANGE THE COURSE.

FROM HIS DESCRIPTION OF THE MEETINGS, HE WAS NOT MINCING WORDS WITH THEM IN PRIVATE ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE NOT TELLING HIM, SO THAT IS A LITTLE SURPRISING THAT WE DID NOT HEAR ABOUT MORE EFFORTS TO TRY TO SAVE THIS.

THE OTHER THING, WHERE THIS TURNS NOW, AND WE HEARD IN GOOD DETAIL ALL THE THINGS WRONG ABOUT THE PROPOSAL, AND NOW WE HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE GOOD OR FOR THE POTENTIAL POSITIVE OUTCOME IS GOING FORWARD.

THAT'S MUCH MORE MURKY.

WHETHER CARE NEW ENGLAND CAN STAND ON ITS OWN, WHETHER IT WOULD BE PURCHASED BY SOMEBODY OUT OF STATE, AND WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE LIFESPAN.

WILL THEY BE BIGGER AND STRONG ENOUGH T -- BIG ENOUGH AND A STRONG ENOUGH TO STAND ON THEIR OWN.

JIM: LIKE THE ARBOR MONEY, THAT WILL EVENTUALLY RUN OUT.

THE FTC WAS ALSO A PLAYER HERE.

TALK ABOUT THE TIMING.

THAT'S SOME INSIDER BASEBALL, 40 MINUTES, GET DOWN HERE.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID ABOUT WHY HE ANNOUNCED IT YESTERDAY AND WHAT HIS CONCERNS WERE ON MAKING IT PUBLIC.

>> THE DECISION CAME AT 8:00 A.M.

YESTERDAY FROM THE FTC, BUT ALSO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE PARTNERS DECISION AND HOW HE DID NOT GET IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC EARLY ENOUGH, THAT HE WAS MUZZLED THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM FOR BEING ABLE TO BRING HIS PERSPECTIVE TO A GREATER AUDIENCE.

I THINK THAT THAT WAS LARGELY HIS THINKING FROM A LOGISTICS STANDPOINT WHERE YOU SAY, REPORTERS CAN GET TO MY OFFICE IN 40 MINUTES.

JIM: IF THEY GO TO COURT AND HE CANNOT COMMENT ON PENDING LITIGATION.

>> CORRECT.

STEPH: THE ONE-TWO PUNCH OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL REJECTING IT WHILE THE FTC ALSO PUT OUT THAT THEY WOULD OPPOSE IT AND ACTUALLY SUE TO BLOCK IT SEEMS DEVASTATING.

AND AT THE TIME WE ARE TAPING THIS, THEY HAVE NOT SAID THAT THEY ARE DROPPING THE MERGER AND THEY WILL NOT APPEAL THE AG'S REJECTION, BUT IT SEEMS THE COMBINATION OF THOSE TWO VERY STRONG REJECTIONS FROM THE AG AND FTC, THEY MIGHT BE DONE.

JIM: AT THE RISK OF TRYING TO SOUND LIKE NOTRE DAME S, I WAS TALKING TO SOMEBODY AFTER THIS AND I WAS HERE WHEN IT WENT TO PATRICK LYNCH.

>> I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS OFF AND ON FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS.

MY QUESTION TO THEM WAS, WHAT MAKES THE MONOPOLY -- YOU HAVE GOT TO GET OVER BEING A MONOPOLY, BUT WHAT MAKES THIS DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER TIME, AND IT TURNS OUT IT DIDN'T.

DID THEY NOT SEE -- THE HOSPITALS HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS BEFORE, COMPARED TO OTHERS IT WOULD'VE BEEN 80%, AND I DO NOT KNOW WHY THEY WENT THROUGH ALL THIS AND THOUGHT WE WILL LOOK THE OTHER WAY ON THE MONOPOLY.

>> WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW IS THE BIGGER PICTURE NATIONALLY.

>> THE DIRE FINANCES?

>> THE CONSOLIDATION OF THE HOSPITAL AND HEALTH-CARE INDUSTRY, IT IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE.

ALL THE SYSTEMS ARE MERGING.

THERE ARE FEWER OF THEM AND THEY ARE BIGGER.

THAT IS THE OVERRIDING TREND, WHICH MAKES THE SMALL ONES THAT ARE STILL AROUND THINK THAT WE HAVE TO DO THIS, AND IF WE DO NOT DO THIS WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STAY IN BUSINESS.

ONE INTERESTING THING, JUST ON THE POLITICAL SIDE, IS THE CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR, AND GOVERNOR HIMSELF, HAVE BASICALLY STAYED AS FAR AWAY FROM THIS AS THEY CAN.

MOST OF THEM.

AND THEY ARE LOOKING TO SEE WHICH WAY THE WIND BLOWS BEFORE THEY STICK OUT THEIR NECKS.

STEPH: THE GOVERNOR DID NOT EVEN PUT OUT A STATEMENT.

>> YOU WOULD NOT THINK THAT THEY HAD -- THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAD ANY INVOLVEMENT.

JIM: ALL I HEARD ABOUT WAS VACCINATION CLINICS TODAY, THAT IS ALL HE PUT OUT.

>> A VIDEO ON BOOSTER SHOTS.

THE SECRETARY PUT OUT A STATEMENT THAT WAS BASICALLY OPPOSED TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S DECISION ON THIS.

ONE THING THAT IS INTERESTING IS WE HEARD SO MUCH ABOUT THE BROWN UNIVERSITY COMPONENT OF THE OPERATION, THE ACADEMIC HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, THE INTEGRATION OF THAT.

I ASKED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, THIS DOES NOT STOP BROWN UNIVERSITY FROM POURING MONEY INTO THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, RIGHT?

OF COURSE IT DOESN'T.

YES, WE ARE STILL GOING TO HAVE TWO LARGE ENTITIES IN THE STATE, ASSUMING THEY ARE FISCALLY SOUND, BUT BROWN CAN STILL DEVELOP THEIR PLAN REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF THIS DECISION.

>> THEY HAVE A BIG ENDOWMENT, I AM NOT SURE IT IS BIG ENOUGH TO COVER THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN RHODE ISLAND MY BOOK POINT TAKEN.

IF THEY ARE FINANCIALLY COMPROMISED, NOW WE WILL HEAR ABOUT A PRIVATE INSTITUTION COMING IN.

IS IT TOO EARLY TO THING ABOUT THE NEXT MOVE?

YOU KNOW THE PRESIDENTS HAVE TO BE THINKING ABOUT THAT.

STEPH: IT IS NOT TOO SOON.

I'M SURE THEY HAVE HAD EXCLUSIVITY WITH EACH OTHER, SO THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO NEGOTIATE WITH OTHER ENTITIES, BUT IF THEY DROP THAT IT IS NOT TOO SOON TO THINK ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT.

I SPOKE TO THE BROWN PRESIDENT LAST NIGHT, SHE SAID SHE IS WORRIED ABOUT, WELL, IF THIS MERGER CANNOT HAPPEN IF THIS GOING TO BE AN OUT-OF-STATE MERGER THAT WILL COME IN.

SHE IS WORRIED ABOUT THE ALTERNATIVE.

SHE SAID BROWN WILL PARTICIPATE NO MATTER THE MERGER.

JIM: DID YOU GIVE HER THE SUGGESTION ABOUT PLOWING BROWN'S MONEY?

STEPH: I DIDN'T.

BILL: MASS GENERAL, WILL THAT BE REVIVED?

YALE FROM CONNECTICUT?

I DO NOT KNOW WHO THE PLAYERS ARE.

I AM SURE THE DISCUSSIONS ARE ALREADY STARTING BEHIND THE SCENES, AND PROBABLY HAVE OVER WHAT NEXT.

THIS WILL NOT JUST GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS, I DO NOT THINK, BUT IT'S PRETTY EARLY ON TO KNOW WHAT THE NEXT MOVE WILL BE.

JIM: REFRESH MY MEMORY, WHAT BLEW IT UP?

WAS IT THE GOVERNOR, DID IT JUST FALL APART?

REMEMBER PARTNERS COMING IN FROM MASSACHUSETTS, WHY CARE NEW ENGLAND?

>> I DO NOT RECALL.

PERHAPS YOU DO.

JIM: CAN THEY SAY, OK, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THIS IS LIKE A CASE DISMISSED WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

LET'S COME BACK AND DO IT WELL OVER AGAIN.

WAS THERE A FATAL FLAW?

>> I WOULD HAVE TO REVIEW THAT BUT I THINK THAT SPECIFICALLY, IN CONJUNCTION WITH A SIMILAR ENTITIES, IS WHAT THE CONCERN IS RIGHT NOW, CERTAINLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NURSES UNION AND THEIR GENERAL COUNSEL, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.

AND WHAT IT WILL DO TO POTENTIALLY SHIFTING HEALTH CARE OPTIONS OUTSIDE OF THE STATE.

JIM: ANOTHER WEEK AND ANOTHER CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE.

THIS IS A BIG ONE, ALLEN FUNG, THE FORMER MAYOR OF CRANSTON INTO TIME CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR HAS DECIDED TO JUMP IN.

PATRICK, THIS CHANGES THE DYNAMIC FOR MANY PEOPLE.

HE WAITED UNTIL WE TAPED LAST WEEK.

SO THIS IS ALMOST A WEEK OLD NOW.

WE DID NOT KNOW A WEEK AGO.

DOES HE IMMEDIATELY BECOME THE FRONT RUNNER?

PATRICK: I WOULD NOT GO THAT FAR FOR THE WHOLE RACE.

I THEY KEY IS THE FRONT RUNNER FOR THE GOP NOMINATION, AND I THINK IT IS REALLY CLOSE.

I THINK IT WILL BE TIGHT.

I HAVE STARTED DOWNLOADING SPREADSHEETS, AND LOOKING AT 2014 AND 2018, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NATIONAL PICTURE FACING DEMOCRATS, WHICH WILL PROBABLY BE VERY BAD.

AND YOU LOOK AT CD 2, THE DEMOGRAPHICS, THE VOTER HISTORY, AND THE FACT THAT AS MAYOR HE HAS ALWAYS GOTTEN A BOOST FROM CRANSTON FOR BEING THE MAYOR THERE, IT GETS REALLY CLOSE TO MAKING UP FOR THE DEFICIT THAT ANYBODY WITH AND "R" NEXT TO THEIR NAME IN RHODE ISLAND USUALLY FACES GOING INTO A FEDERAL ELECTION.

IF YOU ASSUME THAT, IF YOU TAKE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, IT FEELS VERY CLOSE, LIKE IT COULD BE A NAILBITER, AT LEAST GOING IN.

STEPH: I AGREE WITH PATRICK, ALLEN FUNG IS THE FRONT RUNNER FOR THE GOP NOMINATION, BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF OTHER CANDIDATES PULL HIM TO THE RIGHT DURING THE PRIMARY AND HE HAS TO CENTER HIMSELF AGAIN IF HE WINS THE NOMINATION IN THE GENERAL.

BUT I WILL SAY THE DEMOCRATS ARE TAKING HIM VERY SERIOUSLY.

YOU SAW SETH MAGAZINER ALMOST INSTANTLY PUT OUT A STATEMENT AFTER ALLEN FUNG ANNOUNCED, SAYING THE FIRST VOTE HE WILL TAKE IN CONGRESS IS FOR THE MAJORITY LEADER.

EXACTLY.

YOU USUALLY SEE STATEMENTS LIKE, I WELCOME THIS PERSON INTO THE RACE.

THEY ARE REALLY GOING TO TRY TO POINT OUT HIS TIES TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND TRUMP, ALL OF THAT.

HE WORE A TRUMP AT ONE TIME.

JIM: THAT IS A BRICK AROUND HIS NECK.

STEPH: RIGHT, BUT CONSIDERING HE WAS A POPULAR MAYOR, THERE'S MANY VOTES IN CD 2, THIS RACE WILL BE INTERESTING.

>> THINK ABOUT THE FACT HE WORE A PURPLE TIE WHEN HE WAS RUNNING, THAT WAS A SIGNAL, SOMEBODY SAYING WE HAVE TO PAINT YOU AS A CENTRIST.

HIS CAMPAIGN MATERIALS NOW ARE A LITTLE BIT OF BLUE, PURPLE, YOU GOT THE BLUE WAVE.

>> WHAT IS THAT?

>> IT IS A FAMOUS PIECE OF ART, IT IS CLIP ARTY, SO HOPEFULLY THEY UPDATE THE CLIP ART ITSELF.

BUT HE WILL HAVE TO FACE OFF AGAINST GREAT CHALLENGES, LIKE BOB LANCIA AND OTHERS, IN A REBOOKING AND -- ANY REPUBLICAN PRIMARY WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE HUGE ANTI-MASK, PRO-TRUMP AND X NUMBER OF OTHER POSITIONS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY WHAT ALLEN FUNG BELIEVES OR KNOWS WILL WIN ON A STATEWIDE BASIS.

CAN YOU NAVIGATE THE PRIMARY AND THEN REPOSITION HIMSELF IN THE GENERAL?

MOST PEOPLE DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE INTRICACIES OF POLITICS, SO THEY MIGHT SAY THAT ALLEN FUNG RAN FOR GOVERNOR ONCE, WHO IS HE?

MAYOR OF CRANSTON, HE LOOKS NICE, I LIKE WHAT HE SAID.

AND THEN HE MAY BE ABLE TO WIN THE UNINFORMED VOTERS.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THE MASHABLE B AGAINST MAGAZINER, BUT DO NOT SLEEP ON JOY FOX.

I THINK THERE COULD BE INTERESTING DYNAMICS AT PLAY IN A MATCHUP BETWEEN FOX AND FUNG, THAT IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THE MAGAZINER MATCHUP.

JIM: GOING BACK TO THE GOP PRIMARY, THAT IS A BIG QUESTION, WILL THERE BE A REALLY CONTESTED GOP PRIMARY.

IT'S NOT CERTAIN.

OR, REMEMBER, THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR -- THE LAST ONE -- IT WAS BRUTAL AND ALLEN FUNG DID NOT ENJOY THAT VERY MUCH.

WILL JESSICA DE LA CRUZ BE ABLE TO RAISE ENOUGH MONEY AND GET THAT SUPPORT FROM THE RIGHT, FROM THE RIGHT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, TO MAKE THAT A REALLY BLOODY AND CONTENTIOUS PRIMARY, BECAUSE THAT COULD REALLY CHANGE THE DYNAMIC OF WHOEVER MAKES IT THROUGH.

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT.

[LAUGHTER] >> IT IS BLOODY, IT WILL BE GREAT.

STEPH: IT COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING ABOUT THE ELECTION COVERAGE AND EVERYTHING BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH A MASSIVE RACE.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

JIM: I SAT DOWN WITH SENATOR WHITEHOUSE AND HIS MAJOR CONCERN IS A CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD INSIDE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

IF YOU HAVE 65 DIFFERENT CANDIDATES RIPPING EACH OTHER APART, SHE IS TO PROGRESSIVE, HE BELIEVES THAT, THAT'S DAMAGING TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AS A WHOLE.

AND I THINK BECAUSE OF THAT CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD, THAT COULD GIVE ALLEN FUNG, AND MAY BE JESSICA DE LA CRUZ, AND SHE SAID LAST WEEK SHE IS CONSIDERING PATRICIA MORGAN.

>> MY GOODNESS.

BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE GOVERNOR, THE NATIONAL -- HOW THAT IS GOING TO PLAY, BECAUSE THERE WAS A 65% APPROVAL RATING FOR -- BUT PEOPLE SAID WE COULD NOT PULL THE TRIGGER.

THE SENATE WAS EMPLOYEE BACK THEN.

SO HOW MUCH DOES THE NATIONAL PLAY INTO THE LOCAL RACE, OR DOES IT ALL COME DOWN TO LOCAL?

>> MORE THAN IT WOULD IN A GOVERNORS RACE, BUT THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH IN THIS YEAR COMING UP, IN MIDTERMS, NOT A PRESIDENTIAL YEAR.

AND THE CLIMATE FACING THE DEMOCRATS IN WASHINGTON IS BAD.

AND WHAT IS THEIR MESSAGING GOING TO BE?

ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET RHODE ISLAND DEMOCRATS TO TURN OUT IN A MIDTERM?

THAT'S THE HEADWINDS FACING ANY GOP CANDIDATE.

BUT THIS YEAR MIGHT BE THE YEAR THEY CAN DO IT.

YOU MIGHT SEE A SITUATION WHERE A REPUBLICAN GOT ELECTED, GOT IN FOR TWO YEARS AND THEN WAS BOUNCED.

JIM: GOVERNOR MCKEE FINALLY IS A SAYING HE WILL ANNOUNCE COMING UP THIS NEXT WEEK.

THERE WAS CHATTER ABOUT, WILL HE RUN, WILL HE NOT RUN?

THE LONGER IT WENT ON YOU ARE WONDERING, WHERE IS THE ANNOUNCEMENT?

STEPH: HE DID NOT NEED TO ANNOUNCE BECAUSE HE IS THE GOVERNOR.

HE'S ON TV EVERY DAY, OR ALMOST EVERY DAY, DOING THE COVID BRIEFINGS.

AND HE HAS THE EYE OF THE VIEWERS, HE DOES NOT HAVE TO MAKE A NEW FOR HIMSELF.

THE OTHER CANDIDATES HAVE TO GET RHODE ISLAND TO FIND OUT WHO THEY ARE.

SO HE HAS HAD THE LUXURY OF BEING AT THE PODIUM, BEING THE GOVERNOR AND NOT HAVING TO BE A CANDIDATE.

BUT AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO JUMP IN OR IT BECOMES WHY IS HE NOT RUNNING YET, AND IT RAISES QUESTIONS IF HE WILL ACTUALLY RUN FOR THE ELECTION, SO YES.

JIM: PEOPLE SAID LET'S GO LAST WEEK.

STEPH: THAT HAS TO BE IT.

>> HE PROBABLY WANTS TO DO AN IN PERSON EVENT AND PERHAPS ON THOSE GROUNDS, HE'S WAITING FOR THE COLDER WEATHER TO BE OVER, FOR OMICRON TO GO DOWN.

BRIAN RANDLE DID ASK IF THAT WAS A REASON HE WAS WAITING, IN THE OBJECTS OF WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A COVID UPTAKE AND MAYBE YOU SHOULD NOT RUN FOR GOVERNOR, BUT I THINK IT IS THAT HE WANTS THE CONFETTI, BALLOONS AND MAY BE HIGH SCHOOL BAND MARCHING OUT AND THE WHOLE THING.

UNLIKE HIS OPPONENTS WHO ARE DOING SOCIAL MEDIA VIDEOS, NOBODY HAS DONE AN IN PERSON EVENT AND AT THAT COULD BE A FACTOR.

AND DOES HE REALLY NEED TO BE OUT IN PUBLIC ANYMORE, HE IS ALREADY THERE ALMOST DAILY.

>> YOU DO NOT TO KICK OFF THE CAMPAIGN WHEN YOU ARE PUTTING A MASK ORDER IN PLACE.

AND THE HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF.

DEATHS ARE GOING THROUGH THE ROOF.

IF YOU HAVE INFECTIONS.

AND YOU ARE MIRED IN RESIGNATIONS IN YOUR OWN ADMINISTRATION.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN A LOT OF POSITIVE STUFF HAPPENING POLITICALLY FOR HIS ADMINISTRATION THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS.

SO YOU ARE AT LEAST AWAITING FOR THINGS, IF NOT TO TURN POSITIVE AT LEAST NOT BE NEGATIVE BEFORE YOU JUMP INTO A CAMPAIGN.

I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE TIMING AS WELL AS THE LOGISTICS OF NOT WANTING TO DO IT DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC.

JIM: STEPH, YOU HAD A STORY ON PROVIDENCE IS NOT IN A RUSH TO GET A SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT.

WE WILL HOPEFULLY GET TO POT BY THE END OF THE SHOW BECAUSE YOU COVER THAT A LOT.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE COMMISSIONER IS SAYING, BUT SHE SAID WE HAVE A 34% VACCINATION RATE, SO WE ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT A SUPERINTENDENT, BUT CAN THEY NOT WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME?

STEPH: THEY DID NOT EVEN POST THE JOB AND THAT HAS FRUSTRATED A LOT OF PARENTS, TEACHERS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

WHEN HARRISON PETERS WAS HIRED TO BE THE SUPERINTENDENT WITHIN THE STATE TAKEOVER HAPPENED, THERE WAS GRUMBLING THAT SHE WAS JUST PRIVATELY PICKING WHOEVER IT WAS GOING TO BE, SHE DID NOT RELEASE THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE SHE WAS INTERVIEWING.

IN NORMAL TIMES, YOU WOULD SEE PEOPLE BEFORE THE SCHOOL BOARD, A COUPLE FINALISTS, RESUMES WOULD BE POSTED.

SO ONCE HE HAD TO RESIGN, THE QUESTION WAS, CAN WE DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THIS TIME AROUND?

PEOPLE SAID, CAN WE HAVE AN OPEN PROCESS, CAN THE COMMUNITY BE PART OF IT AND SO FAR THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT EVEN POSTED THE JOB.

THAT IS NOT TO SAY PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE ACTING SUPERINTENDENT, BUT HE WAS ALSO SELECTED BY THE COMMISSIONER TO FILL THE ROLE ON A TEMPORARY BASIS UNTIL THE SEARCH WAS DONE, AND THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT SCHOOL DISTRICT, THE LARGEST ONE IN THE STATE, AND PEOPLE WANT A SAY WHO WILL LEAD IT.

JIM: DOES HE HAVE AN INTEREST IN THE JOB FULL-TIME?

STEPH: HE HAS NOT SAID.

I CANNOT IMAGINE WHY HE WOULD NOT APPLY FOR IT IF IT IS POSTED BUT I DO NOT KNOW.

AND, WHAT I HEARD AT THE COMMUNITY MEETING I ATTENDED WAS HE IS WELCOME TO APPLY.

HE'S A VIABLE CANDIDATE.

THEY JUST WANT TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE BE CONSIDERED AND HAVE IT BE AN OPEN AND FAIR PLAYING FIELD.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT, IT IS ABOUT ENGAGEMENT WITH THE COMMUNITY.

THERE SEEMS TO BE A BARRIER FOR PROCESS.

AND I HAVE HEARD FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS AS WELL, I AM SURE YOU GOT THE PRESS RELEASES FROM TEACHERS AND IT SO ON SAYING, WE ARE GOING TO START TO ORGANIZE ON THIS IN A GRASSROOTS LEVEL AND BEGIN TO GET OR MAKE MORE NOISE ABOUT THE ISSUE.

AND I THINK THAT THE COMMISSIONER AND SO ON WOULD BE WISE TO GET OUT IN FRONT OF THIS, POST THE JOB, MAKE A DECISION, GET COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT AND GET THIS OVER WITH.

YOU CAN WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME.

>> IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT THE BOOSTER CLINICS.

JIM: QUICKLY, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING AT THE STATEHOUSE ABOUT LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA?

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A COUPLE YEARS.

THE THING WAS, HOW WILL YOU REGULATE IT?

FROM THE PEOPLE I TALK TO, THEY SAY THAT THEY ARE CLOSE, BUT WE HAVE HEARD OF THAT BEFORE.

>> WE HAVE HEARD THAT.

WE HAVE BEEN HEARING THAT FOR ALMOST A YEAR.

AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, IT IS IN THE SAME PLACE IT HAS BEEN FOR MONTHS.

WHO HAS OR WHO GETS CONTROL OVER WHO SLIDES A PRIMITIVE SELL MARIJUANA ACROSS THE TABLE DOING BUSINESS.

THAT IS THE QUESTION, THEY HAVE SAID WE HAVE BASICALLY SORTED OUT THE DISAGREEMENTS EXCEPT WHO WILL CONTROL IT.

THE EXECUTIVE, THE DEPARTMENT OF BUSINESS REGULATION OR SOMEBODY WITH THE GOVERNOR OR WILL THE LEGISLATURE HAVE OVERSIGHT AND SOME SAY OVER THE PROCESS -- I DO NOT THINK THAT THAT HAS BEEN RESOLVED.

STEPH: I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THEY ARE VERY CLOSE SO MANY TIMES.

>> WE ARE ALL HEARING THE SAME THING.

STEPH: IT IS LIKE THE BOY WHO CALLED WOLF.

BUT THE FACT THAT THIS IS THE ONE THING THEY ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WE ARE NO LONGER DEBATING WILL WE LEGALIZE IT, BUT I THINK THEY ARE CLOSER THAN EVER.

I ALSO SAID THAT LAST YEAR, SO.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: WHEN DID YOU DO YOUR 12 ON 12?

STEPH: RIGHT BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, DECEMBER 19.

JIM: YOU SAID IT WAS CLOSE THEN.

STEPH: AT THE TIME IT WAS RIGHT BEFORE THE SENATE PRESIDENT CAME OUT IN FAVOR.

>> HE WAS THE HOLD UP.

STEPH: EVERYBODY WAS IN FAVOR BUT THE SENATE LEADERS, THEY WERE THE HOLDOUTS.

AND THAN A MONTH AFTER IS WHEN, OR MAYBE I AM MIXING UP THE DATES, BUT ANYWAY THE SENATE LEADERS EVENTUALLY SAID WE ARE ON BOARD AND THEY PASSED MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION LAST YEAR.

IT DID NOT PASS OF THE HOUSE, BUT THE SENATE PRESIDENT ON THE FIRST DAY THIS YEAR INSTEAD THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WILL LEGALIZE MARIJUANA THIS YEAR.

JIM: THIS HAS BEEN THE MOST GENIUS CAMPAIGN IF YOU ARE OPPOSED TO IT, WITH EVERYBODY SAYING THEY WILL PAST IT AND NOTHING HAPPENS.

STEPH: AND NOT COME OUT WITH A BILL AT ALL.

WE WILL SEE, I AM EAGERLY AWAITING THE BILL TO POST ONLINE, SO.

JIM: WE ALL ARE.

LISTED -- LET'S DO KUDOS.

>> THAT IS TO MY COLLEAGUE TOM MOODY WHO HAS GONE TO SCOTLAND.

BUT THAT IS ALSO A MESSAGE WITH THAT, THAT I WOULD LIKE TO GO FOLLOW THE BURNING SHIP.

IF WE ARE GOING TO SEND AN INTERNATIONAL BRANCH WITH A SHIP THAT IS NOW ON FIRE, LAMBORGHINIS, PORSCHES -- IT JUST CAUGHT ON FIRE?

>> IT CAUGHT ON FIRE, THEY ABANDONED SHIP, BUT THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THE BOAT STILL ON FIRE BECAUSE IT IS TOO BIG.

>> COME HERE.

>> BECAUSE IT IS SUPPOSED GOING TO QUANTUM.

CUT TO THE PEOPLE THERE WITH TEARS.

STEPH: THEY WILL NOT GET THERE PORSCHES.

>> AND THE BENTLEY OWNERS WHOSE PAINT JOBS ARE ON FIRE.

>> MORE ON THE CONGRESSIONAL RACE.

WE HAVE HEARD ALLEN FUNG, TREASURER MAGAZINER IS WELL INTO THIS.

THERE HAS BEEN TALK ABOUT BACKROOM DEALS, WHO WILL RUN FOR GOVERNOR AND WHO WILL RUN FOR CONGRESS, IS IT SETH MAGAZINER'S TURN, ENOUGH OF THIS.

THERE IS ONE JOB THAT THE CONGRESSPERSON MUST FOCUS ON AND THAT IS BEING AN AMBASSADOR FOR THE PEOPLE TO WASHINGTON AND FROM WASHINGTON TO RHODE ISLAND, CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT TWO AND AT THE STATE AS A WHOLE.

THAT IS THE ONLY JOB.

POLITICS IS SECONDARY TO THE ACTUAL ROLE OF A CONGRESSPERSON.

IT IS NOT ABOUT FILLING A PARTICULAR DEMOGRAPHIC.

WOULD IT BE NICE TO SEE A PERSON OF COLOR?

ABSOLUTELY.

A FEMALE?

ABSOLUTELY.

BUT JOB NUMBER ONE IS TO BE THE AMBASSADOR, THAT IS WHAT THE MESSAGING NEEDS TO BE ABOUT AND THAT IS WHAT THE WINNER WILL MESSAGE.

>> AND GOOD CONSTITUENT SERVICE.

STEPH: I HAVE A KUDOS.

IT'S A WEEK OLD, BUT MY COLLEAGUE KATE WALSH LAST WEEK DID THE MOST INCREDIBLE JOB DOING CALM, LIVE SHOTS IN THE MIDDLE OF A SHOOTOUT IN PROVIDENCE.

JIM: 168 ROUNDS.

STEPH: WHEN WE WERE SLEEPING AT 6:00 IN THE MORNING, SHE WAS CALMLY EXPLAINING, SHE WAS A SAFE DISTANCE AWAY BUT HUNDREDS OF SHOTS WERE FIRED, NO SENSE OF WHAT DIRECTION THEY WERE GOING OR WHAT WAS GOING ON, OR IF THE SHOTS WERE COMING FROM POLICE.

NOW WE KNOW IT WAS A SUSPECT IN A HOUSE AND THEY WERE SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER, BUT SHE DID A MASTER CLASS IN TV JOURNALISM AND WAS SO CALM AND INFORMED ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE SCARED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WATCHING TV, THEY KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON BECAUSE OF KATE WALSH.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT BEHIND THE SCENES?

WAS SHE NERVOUS OR WAS SHE JUST DOING HER JOB?

STEPH: JUST DOING HER JOB.

CERTAINLY, I AM SURE THAT SHE WAS WORRIED.

THEY HAD POSITIONED THEMSELVES AND SHE WAS BEHIND THE NEW SCAR AT TIMES, BUT THE ADRENALINE HITS YOU, AS YOU KNOW, AND IT IS NOT UNTIL AFTERWARDS THAT YOU REALIZE, OH MY GOSH, THIS IS THE SITUATION I WAS IN.

JIM: KUDOS TO HER AND A LOT OF REPORTERS OUT THERE.

IT WAS DRAMATIC TO HEAR THE GUNFIRE.

IT SOUNDED LIKE SHE WAS A WAR CORRESPONDENT.

THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

BILL, PATRICK AND STEPH, THANK YOU.

COME BACK HERE NEXT WEEK, IT IS ALWAYS LIVELY HERE ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

WE WILL HAVE EVERYTHING COVERED WHEN YOU COME BACK, WE WILL HAVE IT FOR YOU AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.

[CAPTIONING PREFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG ] ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY.

MR. WHITE: FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIEMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF