>> THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, THE END IS INSIDE FOR THE ROMANO ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT WERE -- WILL HER LEGACY BE AS GOVERNOR?

RHODE ISLANDERS HAVE AN ELECTION NEXT WEEK BUT WITH NO CANDIDATES.

WE TALKED TO A LOCAL EXPERT ABOUT THE SEVEN BOND QUESTIONS THAT WILL BE ON THE BALLOT.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS -- I'M PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM ON RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US FOR THE ANALYSIS, CORPORATE COMMUNICATIONS CONSULTANT AND FORMER TV NEWS ANCHOR DAVE LEHMAN -- LAYMAN, SUE CIENKI AND TIM WHITE.

TIM: HELLO, EVERYONE.

WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING PART OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.

THIS TIME NEXT WEEK, WE MAY HAVE A NEW GOVERNR.

WE WILL TALK MORE LATER, BUT FIRST, AFTER A ROCKY START, THE STATES COVID VACCINATION PROGRAM HAS SEEN SOME IMPROVEMENTS OVER THE LAST WEEK, IN PART BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GIVING MORE VACCINATIONS TO THE STATE HERE AND NATIONWIDE.

THERE HAVE BEEN BUMPS WITH OLDER PEOPLE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO NAVIGATE WEBSITES AND THE INEVITABLE YOUNGER PEOPLE CUTTING THE LINE.

TIM, LET ME START WITH YOU.

IT WAS YOUR STATION THAT FAMOUSLY ASKED HARVARD TO GIVE US A GRADE.

THE GRADE CAME BACK NOT SO GOOD.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK HAS CHANGED AND HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY OVER THE LAST WEEK?

TIM: IT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

IF YOU ASK THE ROMANO ADMINISTRATION, THEY HAVE SAID THIS IS THE PLAN ALL ALONG AND WE ARE TAKING ATARGETED APPROACH TO REDUCE HOSPITALIZATIONS.

WE CAN REDUCE FATALITIES, AND THEN THEY WILL SPEED UP IN HOW THEY GET THE VACCINE OUT.

IF YOU LISTEN TO OTHERS, PEOPLE TO THE SOUTH IN CONNECTICUT, THEY TOOK A DIFFERENT APPROACH AND DECIDED WE ARE GOING TO GIVE OUT VACCINES TO EVERYONE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND SPREAD IT FROM THERE.

HOSPITALIZATIONS AND FATALITIES ARE GOING DOWN IN CONNECTICUT, BUT AS YOU POINT OUT, MORE VACCINES ARE COMING INTO THE STATE, AND NOW WE HAVE SOME MASS VACCINATION SITES THAT ARE ONLINE, WE ARE SEEING -- SO WE ARE SEEING MORE PEOPLE GETTING VACCINATED.

A WEEK AGO, THE EMAIL INTO CHANNEL 12, THEY WERE GRIM.

WE ARE NOW SEEING A DIFFERENT TONE AS PEOPLE ARE GETTING VACCINATED.

>> SUE, DO YOU THINK THEY HEARD THE CRIES -- TIM TALKED ABOUT MAYBE THIS WAS THE GAME PLAN ALL ALONG.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IN YOUR COMMUNITY FROM PEOPLE TRYING TO GET VACCINES?

SUE: I'M HEARING THAT THIS IS LIKE EVERYONE -- THIS IS LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THAT ROMANO TOUCHED.

IT WAS AN UTTER DISASTER.

THE ELDERLY WERE MOST IMPACTED BY THE VIRUS, SO WE DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT BEING A PRETTY GOOD TARGETED APPROACH, BUT IT WAS A DISASTER FROM THE GET-GO.

MY MOM IS 100 YEARS OLD AND SHE HAS NOT BEEN VACCINATED YET, SO IT HAS NOT BEEN PERFECT, THE VACCINE ROLLOUT.

>> DAVE, WHAT IS YOUR VIEW?

DAVE: I WILL TAKE A LITTLE DIFFERENT VIEW, ONE I HAVE NOT HEARD EXPRESSED BY OTHER PEOPLE, SO I MAY BE THE LONE RANGER ON THIS.

I THINK ROMANO STARTED OFF STRONG -- ROMANDO STARTED OFF STRONG WITH THIS APPROACH BUT I THINK THEY FUMBLED IT ALONG THE WAY.

BACK IN JULY, WHEN SHE DECIDED NOT TO HAVE THE DAILY BRIEFING AND GO TO WEEKLY BRIEFINGS IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER TRAVEL AND ALL OF THAT, I WROTE HER LINDA -- LETTER AND SAID THAT WAS A BIG MISTAKE.

I CONGRATULATED HER ON A GOOD pJOB UP TO THAT POINT, BUT I THINK SHE SHOULD HAVE KEPT THE PUBLIC EYE, EVERY DAY, ON A PODIUM THAT SHE WOULD BE BEHIND AND THE DIRECTOR OF HEALTH WOULD BE BEHIND AND KEEP THIS TOP OF MIND ON WHAT TO DO AND SO FORTH.

I THINK THAT WAS A MISTAKE.

THE POINT I HAVE NOT HEARD OTHER PEOPLE MAKE IS THAT RHODE ISLAND, WE ARE THE 14TH MOST ELDERLY STATE BASED ON POPULATION AND SIZING IN THE COUNTRY.

AND WE ARE VERY COMPACT STATE.

WE HAVE PEOPLE -- SO THE OPPORTUNITY FOR CONTAMINATION OR EXPOSURE IS MUCH GREATER IN THE STATE.

WE HAVE UNIQUE PROBLEMS HERE BECAUSE OF OUR COMPACT SIZE, AND WE ARE A VERY SOCIAL STATE.

I THINK THAT CREATED PROBLEMS FOR US, MAYBE SOME THE OTHER STATES DIDN'T HAVE.

I THINK FROM ANDO -- RAIMONDO DID THE RIGHT THING WHEN SHE SAW SOME OF THE PROVIDENCES HIT HARD BY THIS.

I THINK THAT WAS THE RIGHT APPROACH.

WHETHER THEY HANDLED IT WELL, THAT IS A DIFFERENT ISSUE.

THE WHOLE IDEA IS WHY DO ROBBERS STEAL MONEY FROM BANKS, IT IS WHERE THE MONEY IS.

SAME THING WITH THIS.

IF YOU HAVE THESE EXTORT NARROW AREAS WHERE THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF COVID SHOWING UP, I THINK YOU HAVE TO ATTACK THAT, BECAUSE AGAIN, RHODE ISLAND, YOU HAVE THIS CAPABILITY OF SPREADING IT THROUGHOUT THE STATE QUICKLY BECAUSE WE ARE COMPACT.

I THINK THAT WAS THE RIGHT IDEA.

MAYBE CARRYING IT OUT SHE LOST POINTS, BUT INITIALLY, I THINK THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> TIM, I ALSO WONDER, OUR COMPACTNESS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WONDER WHY WE CAN'T GET THIS RIGHT.

YOU'VE SEEN THE LITTLE CRACKS IN ARMOR WITH DAN MCKEE.

SO NOW, IT LOOKS LIKE ROME ANDO'S -- RAIMONDO'S CONVERSATION -- CONFIRMATION HEARING IS SET FOR NEXT WEEK.

I WONDER IN YOUR MIND AS A REPORTER AND AS I STAYED -- SAID WITH THE VETS, HE HAS INSISTED WE WILL KEEP THE SAME CREW ON AND YOU WONDER WHAT IS GOING THROUGH HIS MIND BECAUSE HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN BIG ON LET'S LET THE MAYORS DO IT.

HAVE THE CITIES AND TOWNS DO IT, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT IS THE ANSWER HERE, TO HAVE SO MANY COOKS IN THE KITCHEN ON THE VACCINE ROLLOUT.

TIM: I'M WITH YOU ON THIS ONE, GYM, WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS -- TIM: I'M WITH YOU ON THIS ONE, JIM, WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS.

I THICK THERE'S A RISK OF A DESPERATE IMPACT WITH THAT APPROACH.

IN OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE A PATCHWORK OF WAYS FOR FOLKS TO GET VACCINATED RIGHT NOW, AND I CAN TELL YOU WE HEAR FROM THEM HERE, AND THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION.

ESPECIALLY WITH THE OLDER POPULATION IN THE STATE.

DO I GO TO CVS, WALGREENS, OR DO I WANT TO DO ONE OF THE STATE VACCINATION SITES?

IF YOU WILL LEAN MORE INTO MUNICIPALITIES TO DO IT, I THINK THERE IS A RISK THE DISPARATE IMPACT WILL BE SOME COMMUNITIES WILL BE DOING IT WELL AND SOME WILL NOT.

THOSE WILL BE THE HAVES AND HAVE-NOTS.

SO IT MIGHT NOT TURN OUT THAT WAY.

YOU WILL NEED A LOT OF STATE SUPPORT IF YOU ARE GOING TO LEAN INTO MUNICIPALITIES.

AS YOU POINT OUT, WE ARE A COMPACT STATE.

I THINK THIS SCHOOL OF THOUGHT ON WHY WE DON'T CENTRALIZE IS ONE THAT IS A POPULAR SCHOOL OF THOUGHT BECAUSE THE STATE SITE, WHEN THOSE TWO MASS VACCINATION SITES OPEN, THAT SEEMED TO BE RELATIVE, ESPECIALLY THE WAY MASSACHUSETTS DID IT, SEEMED TO OPERATE SMOOTHLY.

TIM: -- DAVE: I AGREE WITH WHAT TIM IS SAYING HERE.

NOT ALL MUNICIPALITIES ARE CREATED EQUAL, NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS WELL.

THIS IS NOT LIKE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WHERE IF YOU DON'T DO IT QUITE RIGHT YOU ARE REALLY IMPACTING FOR THE MOST FOR YOUR COMMUNITY.

IF YOU DON'T GET THIS RIGHT, THERE IS LIFE AND DEATH AT STAKE HERE.

IN THE COMMUNITY NEXT TO YOU, THE COMMUNITY ACROSS THE BAY, WHATEVER, THERE IS SO MUCH AT STAKE HERE.

TRUMP WAS LEADING THE PANDEMIC THROUGH THE STATES AND THAT WAS A HUGE MESS.

I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES STANDARDS THAT ARE APPLIED TO ALL OF THE COMMUNITIES TO BE SURE EACH COMMUNITY IS HANDLING THIS RIGHT.

BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS ABOUT NOT JUST DOLLARS AND CENTS, IT IS ABOUT LIFE AND DEATH.

I THINK THAT'S HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT OR IT WILL CONTINUE -- THIS HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT OR IT WILL CONTINUE ON AND ON.

RHODE ISLAND HAS TO DO IT BECAUSE OF THE DEATH IMPACT.

I THINK IT HAS TO BE DONE WELL, DONE RIGHT, AND I KNOW PEOPLE IN THE STATE DON'T LIKE TO HEAR REGIONALIZATION OR COALESCING BEHIND ONE THING, THEY LIKE TO HAVE THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES DOING THINGS, AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SCHOOL ISSUES THE WAY WE DO.

I THINK WE NEED TO DO THIS RIGHT AND IT NEEDS TO COME FROM THE TOP.

I THINK DAN MCKEE WILL DO A GREAT JOB OF IMPLEMENTING THIS, THOUGH THIS MAY NOT BE HIS PREFERRED WAY OF DOING IT.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO COME FROM A CENTRALIZED LOCATION.

WE'VE GOT TO GET THIS RIGHT.

JIM: I WONDER BE ON THE VACCINATIONS WITH MCKEE COMING IN, THERE WILL BE CHANGES.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE IN MANY WAYS.

BUT THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION, HOW DO YOU THINK THINGS WILL LOOK DIFFERENT ACROSS STATE GOVERNMENT WITH A NEW GOVERNOR COMING IN?

SUE: I THINK DAN MCKEE'S BIG FOCUS WHEN HE WAS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WAS TAKING CARE OF SMALL BUSINESSES.

WITH THE VACCINE ROLLOUT, GETTING THESE SMALL BUSINESSES THE HELP THEY NEED TO GET THE BACKUP TO -- THEM BACK UP TO SPEED, HE HAS BEEN VERY CITY FOCUSED TO LET THE CITIES AND TOWNS DO IT, BUT I AGREE WITH THE TWO GENTLEMEN, TIM AND DAVE, ABOUT THE VACCINE ROLLOUT.

THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE MOST APPROPRIATE THING.

IT WOULD BE TOO MANY COOKS IN THE KITCHEN.

I THINK HE ALSO HAS TO LOOK AT CERTAIN AREAS ABOUT HOW WE GO ABOUT REGIONALIZATION.

DAVE IS RIGHT, THERE ARE CERTAIN CITIES AND TOWNS THAT MANAGE THEIR BUDGETS AND FACILITIES PERFECTLY, AND THERE ARE OTHERS THAT ARE NOT.

WE ARE HOPEFUL HE UNDERSTANDS SMALL BUSINESSES, WHICH ARE AT LARGE PART OF THE ECONOMY IN RHODE ISLAND.

WE ARE HOPEFUL HE HITS THE GROUND RUNNING.

I THINK FOR SIX YEARS HE HAS BEEN IGNORED BY THE RAIMONDO ADMINISTRATION, SO WE ARE HOPEFUL TO SEE WHAT HE DOES.

JIM: WE COULD SPEND PROBABLY THE NEXT TWO HOURS DISSECTING GOVERNOR RAIMONDO'S LEGACY.

DAVE, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE -- IT WILL BE MIXED -- HE HAD SIX YEARS -- SHE HAD SIX YEARS OF GOVERNOR AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTALITY, A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THAT THE WAY SHE HAS BEEN THERE AND HUNG ON BUT NOT REALLY BEEN THERE THE LAST EIGHT WEEKS COULD OVERSHADOW A LOT OF THE GOOD OF WHAT SHE HAS DONE.

HISTORY WILL LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY MAYBE DOWN THE LINE, BUT I WONDER WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT HER REALLY NOT BEING FRONT AND CENTER THE LAST EIGHT WEEKS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE JUST LIKE, LET'S SEE HER GO QUICKLY.

>> I HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED IN THE GOVERNOR AND THE WAY SHE HANDLED THIS.

YOU WERE GOVERNOR, YOU WERE ELECTED GOVERNOR AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE AN OVERWHELMING MANDATE WHEN YOU ARE ELECTED.

YOU HAVE BEEN A GOVERNOR FOR TWO TERMS.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO TAKE THOSE RESPONSIBILITIES VERY SERIOUSLY.

I THINK YOU NEED TO CONTINUE TO PERFORM, AT LEAST WITH THE PUBLIC AND MEDIA THE WAY YOU HAVE.

FOR HER TO GO DARK ON THIS, I WAS DISAPPOINTED.

I THINK THAT WAS A BIG MISTAKE FROM A COMMUNICATIONS POINT OF VIEW.

I THINK IT MADE HER LOOK A LITTLE WEAK.

I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE DID THAT, WHETHER SHE WAS TOLD TO DO THAT BY THE BIDEN PEOPLE OR WHETHER SHE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T WANT THIS NOMINATION TO GET SCREWED UP BECAUSE I HAVE A SLIP OF THE TONGUE OR SAY SOMETHING, OR WHATEVER.

SO I THINK THIS HAS BEEN A BIG MISTAKE ON HER PART.

THE OTHER THING ABOUT RAIMONDO, AND I THINK THE COVID PRICE IS PROBABLY GOING TO STAY DEEP IN THE MINDS OF MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT IS A LIFE-AND-DEATH ISSUE AND WE HAVE ALL BEEN AFFECTED BY IT.

I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE, WHEN SHE DEPARTS, I THINK PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER HER MOSTLY FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE FOR THAT.

THOSE WHO HAVE A GOOD MEMORY WILL REMEMBER WHAT SHE DID TO THE PENSION PLAN.

SHE HAD THE COURAGE WHEN SHE WAS TREASURER TO TRY TO GET THE PENSION SITUATION STRAIGHTENED OUT.

I STILL GIVE HER CREDIT FOR THAT BECAUSE THAT WAS A BRAVE THING TO DO.

SOME WOULD ARGUE SHE HAD NO CHOICE.

WE'VE HAD NO CHOICE FOR MANY DECADES, AND SHE FINALLY DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I THINK HER LEGACY WILL BE NEXT.

I THINK IT WILL BE HOW PEOPLE FEEL, HOW SHE COULD HANDLE THE PANDEMIC.

SHE STARTED STRONG, MAYBE SHE WILL END UP STRONG BUT SHE HAS A WEEK OR SO BEFORE SHE WOULD BE GOING OFF TO WASHINGTON.

JIM: THE IRONY IS THAT SHE TOLD YOUR COLLEAGUE THAT THE BIDEN PEOPLE HAD NOT PUT A MUZZLE ON HER AND SHE WANTED TO GIVE THE RAINS TODAY AND WE KEEP.

I DON'T GET THIS IDEA ABOUT WORRYING ABOUT A SLED.

SHE DID 125 -- BY HER ACCOUNT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY YOU HAD TO SUMMIT HER QUESTIONS AND WE WERE GIVING IT TO HER OUT OF LEFT FIELD.

WE HAVE SEEN HER OFF CAMERA AND SHE CAN BE VERY CHARMING.

SHE IS OBVIOUSLY SMART, AND I THOUGHT THERE WAS A BIT OF A DISCONNECT ON TRYING TO PROTECT HER.

SHE IS THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE, NOT THE HEAD OF A CORPORATION THAT CAN GO TO THE SIDE.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE OUT WHY THE LAST EIGHT WEEKS, WHETHER THAT WAS HER OR WASHINGTON.

TIM: I THINK THE BIDEN AND MINISTRATION HAD NOT ASKED HER TO DO IT.

AND YOU ARE RIGHT, SHE CAN HANDLE HER OWN.

WE HAVE INTERVIEWED HER HUNDREDS OF TIMES AND SHE HAS HAD PRETTY TOUGH PRESS CONFERENCES, SO SHE IS QUICK ON HER FEET AND CAN HANDLE THAT.

ALL WE NEED TO DO IS LOOK UP NORTH TO MAYOR MARTY WALSH AND SEE THE SAME THING WAS HAPPENING THERE.

HE WAS ALSO ON THE BIDEN CABINETS.

HE WOULD ATTEND THE BRIEFINGS BUT NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS.

I THINK WE HAVE A COMMON THREAD THERE, AND THE COMMON THREAD IS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

SO THAT INSERTED KIM WAS SUSPECT.

WHETHER OR NOT, I DO NOT THINK THAT WILL AFFECT HER LONG-TERM HISTORY.

I THINKIT IS A BLIP ON THE RADAR.

I WILL SAY THE RAIMONDO ADMINISTRATION FORFEITS THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THEIR COVERAGE AND IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ACTIVE IN IT.

JIM: TRUE.

SUE, WHAT ABOUT THE LONGER PICTURE WITH RAIMONDO?

SUE: I THINK WE CAN ALL SAY IT IS RAIMONDO'S NUMBER ONE AND RHODE ISLAND IS NUMBER TWO.

I DISAGREE WITH DAVE ABOUT THE PENSIONS.

SHE CAME IN AND IDENTIFIED A PROBLEM, BUT THEN THE MONEY WENT TO ELSEWHERE.

SHE WAS BENEFITING FROM THAT.

THE TCI GAS, IT WILL TERRIBLY IMPACT RHODE ISLANDERS.

HER LEGACY IS NOT MIXED.

IT IS NOT GOOD.

I AGREE WITH TIM THAT SHE IS A VERY BRIGHT WOMAN.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION MAY HAVE TOLD HER NOT TO SAY ANYTHING.

I KNOW SHE WENT THROUGH A FULL-BLOWN PANIC WHEN SHE TALKED ABOUT THREAD SMILING AND SOLICITING DONATIONS.

SHE IS HIS NUMBER TWO, AND SHE WAS VERY WORRIED ABOUT HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT HER CONFIRMATION HEARING.

QUITE FRANKLY, WE ALL KNOW THE DEMOCRATS OWN THE SENATE, AND SHE IS GOING TO SAIL THROUGH.

SO IT IS REALLY HORRIBLE THAT SHE SAT AROUND AND HAS NOT RESIGNED, IS GOING TO GET CONFIRMED, SO THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT SHE WILL.

SO RESIGNING TO GIVE THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM TO DAN MCKIE.

HE DESERVES THE OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE ON AND GET THIS STATE ON THE RIGHT PATH.

TIM: I DISAGREE WITH THE RESIGNATION IDEA.

I THINK IT WOULD BE SMOOTH, IT WOULD BE GOOD IN MANY WAYS, BUT THINK ABOUT THIS.

POLITICS, AND YOU HAVE BEEN IN POLITICS FOR A WHILE, THERE ARE LAST-MINUTE HANGUPS THAT NOBODY CAN PREDICT.

IF SHE WERE TO RESIGN AS GOVERNOR AND SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN WITH HER SECRETARY NOMINATION, SHE IS SITTING THERE WITH NOTHING.

I DON'T BLAME HER.

I WOULD NOT RESIGN UNTIL I HAD IT -- HAD MY RIGHT HAND UP AND SAID OK OR WHATEVER THE PROCESS WOULD BE.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH FOR HER TO GIVE UP THE GOVERNORSHIP UNTIL SHE IS CONFIRMED.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE SUICIDAL, EVEN THOUGH IT DOES LOOK LIKE IT WILL BE A SHOE IN.

BUT YOU NEVER KNOW IF SOMETHING SURFACES, SHE COULD BE IN TROUBLE.

SUE: IN THE MEANTIME, WE ARE ALL SITTING AROUND WAITING BECAUSE SHE IS NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS, NOT BEING FORTHRIGHT WITH RHODE ISLANDERS, SO WHO IS IMPACTED?

TIM: THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE THOUGH.

SUE: JANE REMINDER WAS IMPACTED -- GINA RAIMONDO IS IMPACTED.

SHE MADE THIS CHOICE TO ACCEPT THE NOMINATION.

I'M SORRY, RESIGN FROM THE OFFICE AND MOVE ON.

IF YOU DON'T GET IT, TERRIBLE IF SOMETHING IMPACTS THAT SHE DOES NOT GET CONFIRMED.

WHAT IS THERE, 8.001% THAT SHE WILL NOT GET THAT -- A .001% THAT YOU WILL NOT GET THAT JOB?

THIS IS THE LONGEST TRANSITION IN HISTORY.

JIM: I WAS THOUGHT THAT IF IT WAS A REPUBLICAN SENATE, THERE MIGHT BE SOME CONCERN.

YOU HAD A REPUBLICAN SENATOR FROM THE DEEPEST RED STATE, MISISSIPPI, WHO CHAIRED THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND SAID I DON'T THINK YOU WILL BE GOVERNOR MUCH LONGER.

SO TED CRUZ CAN MAKE ALL OF THE NOISE, AND AGREE WITH SUE.

THIS IS NOT IN THE GOVERNOR'S DNA, BUT SHE HAS BEEN FLAT OUT FOR A YEAR.

WHY WOULD YOU NOT RESIGN, MAKE THE CLEAN CUT, TAKE THREE WEEKS TO BE WITH YOUR KIDS.

IT WILL NOT GET ANY EASIER WITH COMMERCE SECRETARY.

FOR AN APARTMENT IN GEORGETOWN ALL RIGHT EVER.

I WONDERED THAT, AND I KNOW IT IS NOT OVER UNTIL IT IS OVER, DAVE, BUT I JUST THOUGHT IT IS ALMOST LOCKED IN, WHY NOT TAKE A LITTLE BREAK BEFORE WASHINGTON?

BUT THAT IS CLEARLY HER CHOICE.

SUE: SHE HAS ONE TOE IN RHODE ISLAND AND THE REST OF HER BODY IN WATCHING THING, D.C. SHE WAS ELECTED TO BE GOVERNOR OF -- WASHINGTON, D.C. SHE WAS ELECTED TO BE GOVERNOR OF RHODE ISLAND AND IS NOT DOING THE JOB AREA -- JOB.

DAVE: I'M VERY CRITICAL OF HER BEING UNDER WRAPS THE LAST EIGHT WEEKS.

SHE'S ADVOCATING HER JOB WHEN SHE IS NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS TO JOURNALISTS.

WHY, BECAUSE JOURNALISTS SERVE THE COMMUNITY IN WHICH THEIR EYES, EARS, AND VOICES OF THE PEOPLE.

AND WE HAVE ACCESS TO THE GOVERNOR.

THAT SAID, ON THE FLIPSIDE, TO SUE AND JIM, IF SHE IMMEDIATELY STEPPED DOWN OR HAD EARLIER AS YOU SUGGESTED, THERE WOULD BE A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT SAID, LOOK, SHE LEFT RIGHT IN RHODE ISLAND'S HEIGHT OF NEED AND JUST LEFT SO SHE COULD GO TO CANCUN WITH TED CRUZ.

OTHERWISE, IF YOU ARE IN THE ROMANO ADMINISTRATION -- RAIMONDO ADMINISTRATION, THEY ARE DOING THE WORK BEHIND THE SCENE.

SHE IS STILL MAKING IMPORTANT POLICY DECISIONS, WHICH IS WHY I FOUND HER ANSWER TO CAN DUBIOUS, BUT -- TO KIM DUBIOUS, AND SHE SAYS WE ARE DOING THE WORK JUST NOT DOING THE QUEUING DAYS WE USED TO.

IT IS A TOP POSITION EITHER WAY.

>> WHAT WOULD HAVE SOLVED THAT PROBLEM IS GET UP ON THE STAGE AT THE VETS EVERY WEEK.

SUE, YOU GET THE LAST WORD BECAUSE I WANT TO MOVE ON.

SUE: COMMUNICATION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ROLE OF THE GOVERNOR AND SHE IS NOT DOING THAT.

JIM: OK, FOLKS.

YOU MAY NOT KNOW THIS BUT WE HAVE AN ELECTION NEXT TUESDAY.

THERE ARE NO CANDIDATES, FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS WILL BE A BOND ISSUE ONLY ELECTION.

YOU MAY HAVE GOTTEN THAT GREEN PACKET IN THE MAIL.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

THERE'S A LOT AT STAKE HERE.

OR HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, THE LARGEST BOND ISSUE PACKAGE.

THIS DID NOT GO THROUGH LAST FALL.

LONG STORY SHORT, YOU ARE GOING TO THE POLLS, EARLY MAIL BALLOTING, AND I SAT DOWN WITH MIKE, THE HEAD OF RHODE ISLAND PUBLIC A LOW -- PUBLIC EXPENDITURES COUNSEL, THE THINK TANK, THEY DO NOT TAKE A POSITION ON THE BONDS BUT I ASKED THEM, WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD A HUGE DEBT LOAD IN THE STATE, WHAT ABOUT THAT AND SOME SPECIFIC THINGS LIKE NONPROFITS.

HERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF MY INTERVIEW WITH MIKE.

MIKE: IT IS ACCEPTABLE AND CUSTOMARY FOR STATESIDE CORPORATIONS TO BORROW FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS.

I THINK WHAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN IS USE BONDS TO FAVOR OPERATING.

SOME STATES HAVE DONE THAT, NEW JERSEY FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH IS NOT FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE.

BUT IF YOU ARE BORROWING FOR A LONG-TERM ASSET, IT MAKES SENSE.

YOU FEEL MOST COMFORTABLE WHEN YOU ARE PAYING FOR ASSETS THAT BECOME ASSETS OF THE STATE.

IT IS A LESS CONVENTIONAL APPROACH TO USE TAXPAYER MONEY TO ESSENTIALLY IMPROVE ASSETS THAT BELONG TO THIRD PARTIES.

♪ >> THE PHILHARMONIC, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, THOSE ARE NONPROFITS.

AND NOW WE ARE INVESTING.

IS THAT SOME OF THE PAUSE YOU HAD?

SUE: I THINK -- MIKE: I THINK THERE IS CERTAINLY SOME PAUSE.

WE DON'T HAVE OTHERWISE STATE MONEY GOING TO THOSE THINGS AND A LARGE WAY, SO I THINK, ON THAT ONE, YOU LOOK AT THAT AND THOSE ORGANIZATIONS IN THE PANDEMIC.

I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK THAT RHODE ISLAND DOES WELL COMPARED TO STATES.

WE ARE NOT IN THE TOP HALF COMPARED TO THAT BUT WE ARE NOT NEAR THE BOTTOM EITHER.

WE ARE DOING WELL, PARTICULARLY IN THE STATES.

THE MUNICIPAL SIDE IS NOT AS GREAT WITH SOME CITIES AND TOWNS, BUT DEFINITELY THE STATESIDE WE HAVE IMPROVED A LOT.

THAT IS A CREDIT TO THE ASSEMBLY AND GOVERNOR, THE TREASURER, AND TAKING SOUND ACTION.

JIM: SUE, LET'S BE BEGIN WITH YOU.

YOU HAD THOUGHTS FOR PATRICK ENDERS -- ANDREWS.

WHY DON'T YOU RELATE FOR THE REST OF US WHAT YOU TOLD HIM.

SUE: I JUST THINK THIS IS A TERRIBLE TIME TO GO OUT AND FIND MORE MONEY.

WE ALWAYS HAVE TO LOOK AT OUR DEBT LIMIT.

I KNOW WHEN I SAT ON THE TOWN COUNCIL AND MUNICIPALITY, WE ARE ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT OUR DEBT, ARE WE TAKING ON TOO MUCH DEBT?

YES, SOMETIMES IT IS A GREAT IDEA TO BIND OUT FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT DURING THE PAST YEAR WITH THE PANDEMIC THAT THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO TAKE ON THIS BOND.

IT ALSO SPEAKS TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY BEING ABSENT OR VACANT LAST YEAR, AND IT IS THE REASON THIS ELECTION HAS TO TAKE PLACE IN MARCH.

IT DID NOT MAKE IT ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER.

IT SPEAKS TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES, BUT I ALSO THINK IT IS THE RIGHT TIME -- WRONG TIME, EVEN THOUGH THEY SAY THE INTEREST RATES ARE LOW, WE DON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL WE BIND AND SEE WHAT THE INTEREST RATES WILL BE, BUT WE ANTICIPATE THIS WILL COST $641 MILLION.

I DO NOT THINK IT IS THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO BIND OUT FOR ALL OF THESE THINGS.

THAT DOES NOT SAY THAT I DON'T AGREE, THAT THESE ARE ALL GOOD PROJECTS.

I'M JUST NOT SURE THE TIMING IS RIGHT.

TIM: YOU KNOW, AS CHAIR OF THE GOP SAID THERE, THE INTEREST RATES ARE VERY LOW RIGHT NOW.% RHODE ISLAND I NOT ALONE IN TERMS OF GOING OUT TO BORROWING RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS WHY WE SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE REFINANCE THEIR MORTGAGES, BECAUSE NOW IS ALMOST CRIMINAL IF YOU DON'T BORROW RIGHT NOW WITH INTEREST RATES SO LOW.

I'VE ALSO HEARD OTHER PEOPLE SAY, AND I THINK THE CHAIRS SAID THIS MAY BE TO PATRICK ANDERSON, WE SHOULD BE DOING THIS THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS.

THIS NEEDS THE OVERSIGHT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

WE HAVE COVERED THE BUDGET PROCESS.

NORMALLY, THAT KIND OF SPENDING IS TALKED INTO A 300 PAGE BILL THAT MOST OF THE LAWMAKERS DO NOT READ, THAT IS VOTED ON IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE TYPE OF TRANSPARENCY SPENDING THAT WE WANT RIGHT NOW.

IN THIS CASE, VOTERS CAN MAKE A BINARY CHOICE ON THE QUESTION ON IF THEY HAVE A LINE ITEM VETO ON THE ACTUAL SPENDING, THEY MIGHT LIKE QUESTION ONE OR THEY MIGHT NOT LIKE QUESTION FOUR, AND THEY CAN MAKE THAT CHOICE, AS OPPOSED TO THE SPENDING GETTING STUFFED INTO A BUDGET AND IT BEING APPROVED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

THAT IS NOT ALWAYS IDEAL EITHER.

SUE: I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE LINE ITEM BUDGET.

WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE IF WE HAD ONE IN RHODE ISLAND?

IT WOULD BE TERRIFIC.

IT MAY BE THE GENERALLY ASSEMBLY COULD TAKE THAT UP THIS YEAR, LIGHT ITEM BINGO -- LINE ITEM BINGO.

JIM: I OPENED US UP TO THAT ONE.

SUE: [INDISCERNIBLE] JIM: DAVE, GO AHEAD.

DAVE: I'M KIND OF TORN ON THIS AS WELL.

TIM MADE A COUPLE OF POINTS I WOULD MAKE, THAT YOU DO HAVE THIS LINE ITEM VETO ASPECT OF IT, BUT THE REALITY IS, AND THIS WOULD BE INTERESTING TO WATCH IN EARLY MARCH WHEN WE VOTE ON THIS, TYPICALLY IN RHODE ISLAND, THESE BILLS OR REFERENDUMS PASS.

WE HAVE A RECORD -- RECORD.

VERY RARELY DO WE HAVE FIND ISSUES GO DOWN.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE NATIONAL ECONOMY FILTERING DOWN TO RHODE ISLAND LETTER -- WHETHER THE VOTERS SAY NOT THIS pTIME, TOO MUCH SPENDING BECAUSE OF COVID.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

THE OTHER POINT WE MAKE IS I WISH THERE WAS MUCH MORE VETTING GOING ON THIS.

I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

I WAS READING ABOUT IT THE OTHER DAY BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO A MALE IN BALLOT.

I WAS READING -- MAIL-IN BALLOTS.

I WAS READING THE PROJECTS, BUT DO WE WANT TO INCUR THE KIND OF DEBT?

TO TIM'S POINT, THIS IS THE TIME TO DO IT BECAUSE MONEY IS CHEAP.

JIM: I THINK THEY WERE GOING TO DO IT IN AN OLD BUILDING AND THAT WENT DOWN IN A FLAMING MASS.

THE ISSUE I HAD, AND I ASKED MIKE ABOUT THIS, SO LOOK, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY COULD AGREE THAT PHILHARMONIC, RHODE ISLAND, THEY ARE ALL GOOD, BUT SHOULD TAXPAYERS BE TAKING OUT A MORTGAGE TO SUPPORT NONPROFITS AT THIS POINT?

THAT IS KIND OF WHERE I DRAW THE LINE THE.

SUE, I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO THAT.

SUE: RIGHT.

AND AGAIN, WE HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER THAT THESE PROJECTS ARE NOT A BAD IDEA, BUT ARE THE THE TAXPAYERS BE ON THE HOOK FOR THIS?

I'M NOT SURE.

I LIKE WHAT OTHER STATES DO.

WHEN THEY SIT DOWN WITH A BOOKLET THAT EXPLAINS THE PROJECTS, THEY HAVE PROS AND CONS TO IT.

THAT'S WHAT I THINK BENEFIT THE RESIDENTS AND VOTERS OF RHODE ISLAND, TO UNDERSTAND THE UPS AND DOWNS OF VOTING FOR THESE PROJECTS.

THAT IS CLEARLY ONE OF THE DOWNSIDES.

WE ARE NOW BONDING OUT FOR NONPROFITS.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO?

IT WOULD GIVE A LOT OF VOTERS PAUSE TO SAY I'M NOT GOING TO DO THAT WITH TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

TIM: WHAT GIVES ME PAUSE IS THE GOVERNMENT DECIDING EDITORIAL DECISIONS ON PRO AND CON AND PAMPHLETS.

I'M NOT SO SURE THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.

BECAUSE WHO IS WRITING THAT?

IT SOMEONE PROBABLY WHO HAS ANY INTEREST.

JIM: TIM, I GOT TO HOLD YOU THERE.

WE WILL CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION ONLINE.

GO TO RIPBS.ORG/LIVELY.

JOIN US WITH THE BONUS SEGMENT.

SUE CIENKI, TIM WEITZ, DAVE LAYMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT WEEK AS THE LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PREFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> THE LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> THE LIVELY'S PERMIT PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS AND