[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] JIM: COMING UP ON THIS WEEK’S "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," DISASTROUS TRIP OF TWO EMPLOYEES DOING BUSINESS IN PHILADELPHIA LAST YEAR.

SHOULD STUDENTS PUT THEIR CELL PHONES AWAY DURING SCHOOL HOURS?

ONE DISTRICT SAYS A RESOUNDING YES.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US, ATTORNEY AND FORMER STATE PRESENTED IF MIKE MARCELLO.

BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER AND WEEKLY CONTRIBUTOR STEPH MACHADO.

ATTORNEY AND FORMER HOUSE MINORITY WHIP, NICK GORHAM.

IT IS GREAT YOU WITH US THIS WEEK.

WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT, THE SO-CALLED PHILADELPHIA FIASCO.

A TRIP BY HIGH-LEVEL EMPLOYEES SEEKING A CONTRACT TO REFURBISH THE CRANSTON STREET ARMORY THAT LEFT A TRAIL OF EMBARRASSMENT AND RESIGNATION.

DAVID PATTON WHO CLAIMED HE WAS HAVING HEALTH ISSUE AT THE TIME HAS AGREED TO PAY A $5,000 FINE FOR A FREE LUNCH HE TOOK AND MORE.

THE DIRECTOR SAID IT HAD NO ABILITY TO IMPOSE PENALTIES FOR INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR.

, IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE IT HAS BEEN A YEAR -- NICK, IT IS HARD TO LEAVE IT HAS BEEN A YEAR.

THERE WAS SO MUCH MORE TO THE STORY THAT YOU WISHED YOU COULD HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR.

NICK: I WISH YOU COULD DRILL DOWN INTO WHAT REALLY HAPPENED BECAUSE IT MUST BE INTERESTING.

TWO GUYS LET LOOSE IN PHILADELPHIA WHO MADE FOOLS OF THEMSELVES AND MADE OUR STATE LOOK BAD.

THEIR TRANSGRESSIONS UNDER THE ETHICS LAWS ARE REALLY INCIDENTAL TO THE TRIP.

THE TRIP WAS A DISASTER.

THAT IS THE SAD THING.

THEY WERE TRYING TO WORK WITH A CONTRACTOR TO MAKE SOME GOOD IMPROVEMENTS TO THE CRANSTON STREET ARMORY AND WHAT A MESS.

STEPH: THE ETHICS COMMISSION SAID THEIR AUTHORITY DOES NOT ALLOW THEM TO PUNISH THESE FORMER STATE OFFICIALS FOR THE SEXIST AND RACIST REMARKS.

IT WAS NARROW TO THE FREE LUNCH PART OF THE TRIP BUT THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY A LOT MORE THAT WENT ON.

JIM: HE RESIGNED, HE LOST A $175,000 JOB.

JIM THORSON, THE OTHER GUY, HE IS CHALLENGING IT.

DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU?

MIKE: HE BASICALLY SAID I DID NOT KNOW MY LUNCH WAS PAID FOR BUT THEY WERE SITTING IN EVERY TRUCK THAT WAS CLOSED.

SOMEBODY WAS PAYING THEIR IT IT IS A WEIRD DEFENSE.

ONE OF THE MEMBERS MADE A MOTION TO INCREASE DEFINED TO $10,000 BUT HE CANNOT GET A SECOND FROM THE ETHICS COMMISSION.

THIS STORY THAN WHAT WE KNOW.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY RELEASE THE INVESTIGATION NOTES TO THEIR FINDING.

THAT WOULD SHED MORE LIGHT.

JIM: COULD THEY DO THAT?

MIKE: I THINK THEY CAN.

JIM: I DON’T RECALL SEEING THAT THAT THEY WOULD GO IN AND SAY $5,000.

THE LARGEST WE HAVE EVER SEEN, JOHNSON PAID 30 YEARS AGO.

SOMETIMES YOU WANT TO TAKE A POUND OF FLESH OUT OF PEOPLE BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP WITHIN THE CONFINES OF WHAT THE ETHICS COMMISSION HAS DONE.

STEPH: THE GOAL WAS A DETERRENT TO MIKE TROUT OR OFFICIALS AREN’T TAKING FREE THINGS FROM STATE CONTRACTORS AND ABUSING THIS LAW.

JIM: AS A SIDE NOTE, I WAS GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS LATER ON.

WE TALKED ABOUT HER LAST WEEK, THERE ARE CHANGES -- PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

YOU WERE AROUND WHEN THEY DID THE BALANCING ACT.

IT WAS THE ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS THAT -- AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SIDING THAT WE GOT THIS STORY.

>> IT WAS THEIR FINDINGS THAT SAID HIS PEOPLE’S NEEDS TO BE RELEASED.

ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS IS THAT OFFICIAL COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN AN IN THE CAPACITY DOES NOT HAVE TO BE RELEASED UNDER THE CURRENT STATUTE.

THAT IS HOW MOST PEOPLE COMMUNICATE.

JIM: I FIND THAT ODD.

ELECTED OFFICIALS BUT IF YOU ARE BETWEEN DEPARTMENT HEADS, YOU COULD GET AT IT.

STEPH: IF THE NOT GO TO THE CHIEF OF STAFF IS A PUBLIC RECORD BUT IF IT GOES TO THE GOVERNOR IT IS NOT.

IT DOESN’T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.

NICK: IT IS NICE TO HAVE TENSION WITH THE ATTORNEYS GENERAL.

WE LEARN MORE.

HE HAS BEEN AGGRESSIVE ABOUT FORCING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH TO DISCLOSE THINGS.

I THINK IT HAS BEEN GOOD FOR THE PUBLIC.

A LITTLE TENSION.

STEPH: THERE IS CRITICISM THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS THE AUTHORITY TO HANDLE APPEALS BECAUSE SO MANY APPEALS ARE ABOUT POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE WORKS CLOSE WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SO PERHAPS THEY SHOULD NOT BE HANDLING THOSE.

SO FAR WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF CASES WHERE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OVERTURNS DENIALS FROM THE MCKEE ADMINISTRATION.

JIM: PETER NERONHA IS UPGRADABLE BECAUSE HE TURNED DOWN THE REQUEST TO WAIVE THE FEES.

STEPH: WHICH WE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO DO.

THE LAW ALLOWS THE FEES.

JIM: HE HAS TO GO BY THE LAW.

STEPH: WE TRIED ANYWAY AND HE DID ASK THE MCKEE ADMINISTRATION TO WAIVE THE FEES BUT HE IS NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO.

YOU HAVE TO GO TO COURT TO WAIVE THE FEES.

FOR LEGAL FEES TO GO TO COURT WOULD BE MORE THAN THE FEES.

JIM: YOU ARE THERE TENURES AGO -- YOU WERE THERE 10 YEARS AGO WHEN THEY DID THE BALANCING TEST.

WE HAD A PANEL OF REPORTERS LAST WEEK, EITHER ASKING TOO MUCH THIS YEAR?

THERE ARE 47 CHANGES, SHOULD YOU LOOK AT A COUPLE?

MIKE: THAT WAS PART OF A LARGER -- THAT WAS THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE BILLS BECAUSE WE HAD DECISIONS THAT SAID A PERSON COULD NOT BE RELEASED.

WE WANT TO HAVE THAT BALANCING TEST.

WE DID HAVE OTHER REFORMS.

THAT WAS PART OF THAT AMENDMENT.

STEPH: THAT IS HUGE.

MIKE: BEFORE, YOU COULDN’T GET THAT.

JIM: THANK YOU, REPRESENTATIVE.

IT IS ALMOST LIKE A CONCERTED EFFORT.

THEY LINE UP EVERYBODY AT HIS BROTHER SAYING FROM CORRECTIONS TO THE BAY COMMISSION, EVERYBODY SAYING WE DON’T LIKE THESE CHANGES.

NOT SURPRISING.

MIKE: I THINK IT IS BECAUSE THEY THINK IT WILL CREATE MORE WORK FOR THEM.

THE TIMEFRAME HAS BEEN SHORTENED.

THE FEES HAVE BEEN DECREASED.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS IS NOT THEIR GOVERNMENT, THIS IS THE PEOPLE’S GOVERNMENT AND WE NEED TO GET THE RECORDS OUT.

THEY WILL COME TO A COMPROMISE.

IT HAS BEEN A DECADE SINCE THE LAW WAS AMENDED.

IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT EVERY TENURES.

JIM: MR. WITH DISH -- MR.

WHIP?

NICK: I THINK THEY SHOULD EXPANDED.

IT HAS BEEN A GREAT LOT.

THEY HAVE THEIR LOBBYISTS LOBBYING AGAINST THE DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION.

LOBBYING THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SEEMS ABSURD.

THIS IS A DECISION THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY CAN MAKE ON ITS OWN.

THEY DON’T NEED LOBBYISTS.

NOBODY SHOULD HAVE TO DISCLOSE THINGS.

IT IS OUR GOVERNMENT.

JIM: LOOK AT FLORIDA.

THEY SAY THERE ARE GOING TO BE LEGAL ISSUES.

IF THE LEADERSHIP BUMPED THEIR HEAD AND SAID LET’S ASK STEPH MACHADO WHAT SHE WANTS, WHAT WOULD HELP YOU MOST IN YOUR JOB?

STEPH: THE TWO BIGGEST THINGS FROM A JOURNALIST PERSPECTIVE ARE MAKING THE MOST OF ELECTED OFFICIALS PUBLIC AND THE RATING OF THE FEES -- WEIGHTING OF THE FEES WHEN A REQUEST IS IN THE PUBLIC’S INTEREST.

MIKE: I BELIEVE THE CURRENT LAW STATES EMAILS BETWEEN ELECTED OFFICIALS AND A PERSON THEY REPRESENT SHOULD NOT BE RELEASED AND I THINK THAT IS FAIR.

STEPH: THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR CONSTITUENT EMAILS.

RIGHT NOW IT IS ALL OF THEIR EMAILS.

MIKE: THAT IS IMPORTANT.

WE GOT SOME PERSONAL EVENTS WITH PEOPLE WITH CRISES AND ISSUES AND I DON’T THINK THAT SHOULD BE MADE PUBLIC.

NICK: SOME OF IT WOULD BE VERY ENTERTAINING TO READ.

STEPH: WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WITH THAT EXEMPTION BECAUSE IF YOUR CHIEF OF STAFF IS ALSO DOOR CONSTITUENT, YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.

JIM: YOU THINK HE ELECTED OFFICIALS WOULD KNOW.

IF YOU ARE IN OFFICE AND YOU KNOW THESE ARE GOING TO BE PUBLIC, USE YOUR DAN MCKEE@GMAIL.COM ACCOUNT.

MIKE: IT DOESN’T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

JIM: YOU STILL HAVE TO RELEASE IT?

STEPH: IF THEY USE THEIR PERSONAL EMAILED -- WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ASK FOR THEIR PERSONAL EMAIL BUT IF THEY USED FOR WORKING BUSINESS, THEY NEEDED TO RELEASE.

MIKE: I ALWAYS ADVISE ELECTED OFFICIALS TO NOT USE YOUR EMAILS FOR OFFICIAL BUSINESS.

STEPH: PEOPLE USE THEIR PERSONAL, OR CELL PHONE, THAT IS NOT GOING TO END UP -- JIM: I WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

I HAD NO IDEA.

TO BE CONTINUED.

STEPH HAD A GREAT PIECE FOR THE GLOBE AND RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY THAT AIRED ON SUNDAY ABOUT CELL PHONE BANS IN ONE DISTRICT, CENTRAL FALLS.

CELL PHONES BE INSTRUCTION IN OUR OWN LIVES.

CENTRAL FALLS TRIED TO BAN ALSO PHONE USE DURING THE SCHOOL DAY.

HE IS A LITTLE BIT OF HER STORY.

[VIDEO CLIP] >> IF SOMETHING LOOKS OFF ABOUT THIS ALL WITH FULL OF TEENAGERS IN 2024, IT IS THAT NOT ONE OF THEM IS LOOKING DOWN AT A PHONE.

AT CENTRAL FALLS HIGH SCHOOL IN RHODE ISLAND’S TINIEST CITY, AN EXPERIMENT HAS BEEN UNDERWAY SINCE OCTOBER 1.

>> LIFE AT THIS SCHOOL CHANGED FOREVER ON THAT DAY.

>> THAT IS WHEN THE SCHOOL BAND CELL PHONES AND OTHER PERSONAL ELECTRONICS LIKE HEADPHONES AND SMART WATCHES, REQUIRING STUDENTS LIKE THE DEVICES IN THESE POUCHES FROM THE COMPANY YONDER FOR THE SCHOOL DAY.

>> I CANNOT GET IN HERE?

>> YOU CAN ONLY OPEN IT WITH A MAGNET.

>> THE POUCHES UNLOCK WITH THESE DEVICES HELD BY STAFF AND MOUNTED ON WALLS AT THE END OF THE SCHOOL DAY.

DR. DOLORES GRANT SAYS THIS WAS NECESSARY.

>> CELL PHONES WERE THE SCOURGE OF THIS BUILDING.

THEY WERE SUCH A PROBLEM.

YOU WOULD HAVE STUDENTS TEXTING UNDERNEATH THE DESK ASKING TO GO TO THE BATHROOM BUT REALLY GOING TO MAKE PHONE CALLS.

BUSES CALLING THEM TO TELL THEM THEIR WORK SCHEDULE, PARENTS CALLING.

>> THERE WERE SEVERAL PROBLEMS.

THE PRESIDENT SAID -- THE PRINCIPAL SAID THAT LED THEM TO ADOPT A NEW CELL PHONE POLICY.

>> WHAT IS DESTRUCTION DUE TO LEARNING AND WE FOUND A LOT OF CONFLICTS GENERATED THROUGH KIDS TEXTING OR USING SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> PROCTOR GRANT HAS SEEN A HUGE DIFFERENCE SINCE PERSONAL ELECTRONICS WENT AWAY -- DR. GRANT HAS SEEN A HUGE DIFFERENCE SINCE PERSONAL ELECTRICS WENT AWAY.

>> MY STUDENTS GOT HIGHER GRADES.

I FELT THEY WERE MORE COMMUNICATIVE.

LOOKING AT ME STRAIGHT IN THE EYE, TALKING TO OTHER STUDENTS, I HEARD CHATTER IN THE HALLWAYS.

COMMUNICATING IN A LIVELY MANNER.

IP THE ENJOYED THAT.

THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHANGED.

JIM: TO WATCH THE ENTIRE STORY, VISIT RIPBS.ORG/WEEKLY.

YOU WATCH THIS PIECE AND YOU THINK WHY AREN’T MORE SCHOOL DISTRICTS DOING THIS?

I KNOW NOT EVERYBODY IS ON BOARD BUT IT SEEMS IT IS WORKING.

STEPH: WE WILL SEE IF THERE ARE MEASURABLE RESULTS, BUT EVEN THE ANECDOTAL RESULTS OF STUDENTS BE MORE ENGAGED IN CLASS IS HUGE.

EVERY DISTRICT HAS ITS OWN NEEDS.

THIS DISTRICT, SOMETHING THAT STRUCK ME WAS HOW MANY TOLD ME KIDS FORGETTING DISTRACTED BY THEIR JOBS.

THIS PARTICULAR DISTRICT, A LOT OF STUDENTS HAVE JOBS ON THE WEEKEND AFTER SCHOOL.

THEY MIGHT BE HELPING TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES.

TO HAVE YOUR BOSS: NSYNC CAN YOU PICK UP A SHIFT, I AM TRYING TO GET YOU ON THIS SCHEDULE IS WITH THE DISTRACTING.

THAT IS NOT SOMETHING I HAD THOUGHT OF BEFORE REPORTING THIS STORY.

NICK: MY WIFE TEACHES IN PROVIDENCE.

SHE SAID, AS DID THE FOLKS ON THE SHOW WE JUST WATCHED, IT WAS A GAME CHANGER.

JIM: DO THEY DO THAT?

NICK: THEY DO THAT IN PROVIDENCE.

IT HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL.

I HAVE ONE OF THE POUCHES AT HOME.

JIM: DOES SHE MAKE YOU PUT YOUR CELL PHONE IN IT?

NICK: SHE HAS ASKED ME TO CLIMB INTO IT.

JIM: NICK’S WIFE SAYS I WANT YOUR TOTAL ATTENTION.

STEPH: I AM CURIOUS IF THEY WILL DO IT FOR THE BEST OF THE PROVIDENCE HIGH SCHOOLS BECAUSE IT IS A BIT EXCESSIVE TO EXPECT THEM TO DO IT.

MIKE: WHEN I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL, WE HAD ONE PAYPHONE IN THE STAIRWELL AND WE USED TO LINEUP TO USE IT.

I KNOW SMITHFIELD IS LOOKING AT A POLICY, THERE WAS AN ARTICLE ABOUT IT.

AS ANY ADULT, I FIND IT DISTRACTING.

WE ARE IN COURT AND BE PHONE RINGS OR YOU ARE TRYING TO TEXT, IT IS DISTRACTING.

I CAN IMAGINE WHEN YOU TRY TO TEACH, IS DISTRACTING.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT EACH SCHOOL DISTRICT MEETS THEIR OWN POLICY.

PARENTS HAVE A LEGITIMATE CONCERN ABOUT HAVING TO REACH THEIR KIDS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS.

I COULD SEE WAY.

WOULD ONE OF STUDENTS TO HAVE A CELL PHONE.

JIM: TWO THINGS STRUCK ME.

ONE OF THE STUDENTS YOU INTERVIEWED SAID NOT USING MY PHONE IN SCHOOL AND ENCOURAGES B OR INSPIRES ME TO NOT USE IT AS MUCH OUT OF SCHOOL.

STEPH: IT ALMOST BROKE THAT HABIT.

THAT STUDENT WAS A FRESHMAN DURING THE PANDEMIC.

HIS WHOLE SCALE -- HIS WHOLE HIGH SCHOOL LIFE STARTED VIRTUALLY.

HE IS BACK IN PERSON BUT STILL HAVE THAT HABIT OF BEING ON HIS PHONE.

HERE ARE LESS HE LIKES IT AND OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL AND HIS REGULAR LIFE, HE PUT THE PHONE AWAY BECAUSE HE LIKES THE FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTION.

JIM: THE FLIPSIDE IS YOU INTERVIEWE THE PEOPLE IN LINCOLN AND THEY SAID YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD.

WE CAN PUT THE KIDS IN A BUBBLE, BUT WE FEEL IT IS IMPORTANT TO TEACH THEM IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

YOU HAVE RULES, YOU CANNOT USE IT.

IF YOU FATHER TO THE RULES, THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES.

STEPH: THEY DECIDED TO START LETTING THEM USE THE PHONES OUTSIDE OF CLASS, IN THE HALLWAY BETWEEN CLASSES AND THE LUNCH ROOM.

THEY WERE SICK OF GOING UP TO KISS THE LUNCH PERIOD SAYING PUT YOUR PHONE AWAY.

THEY SAID, THEY ARE ON BREAK BETWEEN CLASSES.

IF THEY USE THEM DURING CLASS, WE WILL ENFORCE THAT.

THIS EDIT IS WORKING FOR THEM?

NICK: ONE OF THE REASONS THEY WENT WITH THE POUCHES IS THE POLICING OF THE PHONES, THAT IN OF ITSELF WAS A TIME-CONSUMING PROJECT FOR EVERY TEACHER IN THE SHORT TIME THEY HAD TO TEACH.

THE POUCH WAS SO ABSOLUTE.

IT DIVERTED ATTENTION TO THE TEACHING.

JIM: OUR KIDS JUST MISTED THE TABLET THING.

OUR KIDS MADE IT SOUND LIKE THEY WERE LEPERS.

WE WAITED UNTIL THEY WERE 7:00 -- THEY WERE SEVENTH OR EIGHTH GRADE.

I RIVER MY DAUGHTER TALKING TO MY WIFE AND SAME WAY DID YOU GET YOUR FIRST CELL PHONE AND MY WIFE SAID I WAS 33 YEARS OLD.

STEPH: THERE IS A MOVEMENT WAIT UNTIL EIGHTH GRADE WHERE PARENTS WERE TRYING TO BED TOGETHER TO WAIT UNTIL EIGHTH GRADE.

YOU CAN GIVE THEM A PHONE THAT IS NOT A SMART PHONE IF YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO REACH THEM.

WHO IS PICKING YOU UP AFTER SCHOOL?

SMARTPHONES, PARENTS ARE TRYING TO SAY WE HAVE TO DELAY THIS.

JIM: YOU WERE ON A SCHOOL COMMITTEE.

MIKE: TOWN COUNCIL.

JIM: YOU RAN FOR SCHOOL.

MIKE: IRAN.

THANK YOU.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: FELL A LITTLE SHORT.

MIKE: I RAN FOR SPEAKER ONCE, TOO.

JIM: I REMEMBER THAT.

WE WON’T GO DOWN THAT RABBIT HOLE.

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SHOW THIS PIECE TO SCHOOL COMMITTEES AND THEY WOULD BE ON BOARD.

THERE MIGHT ALSO BE PRESSURE FROM PARENTS, I WANT TO HAVE MY KIDS.

WHAT WOULD BE FROM SCHOOL COMMITTEES THAT SHOULD BE THE PUSHBACK FROM SCHOOL COMMITTEES -- WOULD BE THE PUSHBACK FROM SCHOOL COMMITTEES?

MIKE: THE BALLOTS HAS TO BE FOUND BUT PARENTS HAVE A LEGITIMATE RIGHT IN THAT THEY WERE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEIR KIDS.

PICKING THEM UP WORK OUT FORBID SOMETHING HAPPENS IN THE SCHOOLS.

STEPH: I AM CURIOUS IF THERE WOULD BE MORE PUSHBACK FROM PARENTS THAT WE DID NOT NECESSARILY SEE IN CENTRAL FALLS.

THERE ARE PARENTS WERE TEXTING THEIR KIDS.

THE SCHOOL DAY WITH THINGS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY URGENT.

NICK: THAT IS PROBABLY TRUE.

STEPH: IF THERE IS ANY EMERGENCY, YOU CAN CALL THE SCHOOL.

JIM: LIKE THE OLD DAYS.

STEPH: RIGHT.

THESE SCHOOLS NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE STAFFING THOSE LAND LINES AND MAKE SURE SOMEONE IS PICKING UP THE PHONE.

JIM: CAN I JUST SAY, IS THERE ANY DOUBT THAT IS VIOLA DAVIS’S SISTER?

STEPH: SHE SOUNDS EXEC ALIKE HEARD.

JIM: SHE DELIVERED THOSE LANDS, SHE SHOULD GET AN AME -- THOSE LINES, SHE SHOULD GET AN EMMY AWARD.

STEPH: I SAID ARE YOU GOING TO GO TO ACTING?

JIM: SHE SLIPS IN WITHOUT FANFARE.

STEPH: SHE’S THE TOWN HERO.

MIKE: GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE KIDS.

JIM: WASHINGTON BRIDGE.

MIKE, WE HAD YOU ON ONE OF THE FIRST SHOWS OF THE YEAR, THE SOLICITOR AND EAST PROVIDENCE, UNDER THE MAYOR HAS BEEN UNDER FIRE.

GOVERNOR MCKEE TALKED ABOUT A DAY OF RECKONING COMING.

WHAT DO YOU ENVISION AS THE DAY OF RECKONING?

MIKE: THE DAY OF RECKONING IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE LAWSUITS.

I DON’T KNOW IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE FIRED.

A LOT OF CONTRACTORS WERE HIRED TO INSPECTED.

THERE WERE NOT MANY PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR THE STATE INVOLVED, MOSTLY CONTRACTORS.

I THINK THE DAY OF RECKONING WILL BE LAWSUITS AND MONETARY DAMAGES.

I GOT PEOPLE WILL BE FIRED OVER IT.

IF THEY WERE, THEY WOULD BE FIRED BY NOW.

THAT IS WHAT IT EVER RECKONING IS.

NICK: THE $50 MILLION WE SPENT -- $58 MILLION WE SPENT -- JIM: IS IN THE RIVER.

NICK: YEAH, IN THE RIVER.

THAT THE TAXPAYERS AND SPENT.

ONLY $20 MILLION OR WHATEVER WAS STATE MONEY.

WE PAY TAXES IN RHODE ISLAND TO SO I CONSIDER THE WHOLE $50 MILLION TO BE OUR PROBLEM.

MIKE: I THOUGHT PETE BUTTIGIEG’S RESPONSE WAS BRILLIANT.

IT WASN’T A WASTE OF MONEY BECAUSE IF WE HAD NOT SPENT MONEY WE WOULD NOT HAVE DISCOVERED THE ERRORS.

NICK: UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ENGINEER THAT CAN JUST DO IT.

STEPH: HE SAID THE INSPECTIONS CAUGHT THE PUBLIC WHICH IS NOT TRUE.

THE INSPECTIONS SAID THE BRIDGE WAS FINE.

IT WAS THE SO-ALLED YOUNG ENGINEER WHO MAY ACTUALLY BE MIDDLE-AGED WHO DISCOVERED THE PROBLEM.

NICK: IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE THERE WILL BE A RECKONING WITHIN RHODE ISLAND GOVERNMENT SEEING AS IT IS ALL ONE PARTY SO OFTEN AND ONE TEAM.

WE WOULD BE MUCH BETTER OFF IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS IF WE HAVE SOME PARTY DIVERSITY IN THIS STATE WHICH WE REALLY DON’T HAVE.

JIM: THE WAY IT IS SET UP, ULTIMATELY THE ANSWER TO DOT.

DOESN’T THE BUCK STOP AT D.O.T.?

YOU HAVE TO SIGN OFF AT SOME POINT.

STEPH: MY COLLEAGUE TRIED TO ASK AT THE NEWS CONFERENCE, HE SAID TO THE DIRECTOR, WHEN IS YOUR DAY OF RECKONING COMING AND HE PIVOTED TO HEAR ALL OF THE GREAT THINGS WE HAVE DONE -- TO HEAR ALL OF THE GREAT THINGS WE HAVE DONE.

I AM CURIOUS IF THE DIRECTOR WILL RETIRE BEFORE THE BRIDGE PROJECT GETS UNDERWAY.

I DON’T WANT TO AGE HIM.

I THINK HE IS IN HIS EARLY 70’S.

IF HE IS NOT GOING TO STAY UNTIL THE BRIDGE OPENS IN 2026 OR BEYOND, DOESN’T MAKE SENSE TO HAVE A NEW DIRECTOR BEFORE THE PROJECT STARTS?

THAT IS GOING TO BE A DECISION FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE TO MAKE.

MIKE: I THINK THAT IS RIGHT.

JIM: DURING MY TELEVISION DAYS, I HAD A NEWS DIRECTOR WHO WOULD HAVE GIVEN ME TWO DAYS OFF IF I GOT AN INTERVIEW WITH THE YOUNG ENGINEER.

JUST SAYING.

STEPH: I HAVE EMAILED AND CALLED HIM SO MANY TIMES.

IT IS EITHER HIM OR THAT IS THE SUPERVISOR OF THE YOUNG ENGINEER.

NICK: THEY HAVE A MUZZLE ON THE POOR GUY.

WOULDN’T IT BE GREAT IF WE COULD GET THE INFORMATION?

STEPH: WE GO BACK TO THE APRA CONVERSATION, SO MUCH OF THE WORK IS BEING DONE BY PRIVATE CONTRACTORS SO IT IS ALMOST A LOOPHOLE, THE WORK THE CONTRACTORS ARE DOING, THEY DON’T HAVE TO TALK TO ME.

THEIR EMAILS ARE NOT PUBLIC.

NICK: MAYBE THE WORD WOULD BE CLANDESTINE.

EVERYTHING IS SO QUIET AND CLANDESTINE.

STEPH: IF YOU ARE OUT THERE, PLEASE CALL ME.

JIM: I WOULD GET YOU TWO DAYS OFF.

MIKE, YOU ARE THE SOLICITOR AND EAST PROVIDENCE.

I HAVE HEARD PEOPLE SAYING IN THE RUSH OF THE NEWS THAT A LOT OF THE BUSINESSES AND EAST PROVIDENCE ARE GETTING HIT.

WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT HERE?

WHERE ARE THE CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE?

WHERE ARE THE HOSPITALITY ASSOCIATIONS?

WE ARE ON TO THE NEXT THING BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS.

MIKE: THE RESTAURANTS HAVE BEEN HIT THE HARDEST.

THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS TO TRY TO GET CHAMBER OF COMMERCES TOGETHER.

SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, THEY ONLY GIVE 4% LOANS.

WE DON’T WANT TO LOANS, WE NEED GRANTS.

ISSUES WITH MARKETING AND WHATNOT.

IN THE LAST WEEK OR MONTH, THERE HAS BEEN A REENERGIZED MOVEMENT TO GET SOME HELP.

SOME OF THE SMALL BUSINESSES AND RESTAURANTS ARE HURTING.

I WORK AND EAST PROVIDENCE ALMOST EVERY DAY.

YOU CAN GET OVER THE BRIDGE, GO AFTER 6:00 FOR DINNER.

JIM: MOST TIMES IT IS TENABLE.

LET’S DO UPGRADE IS ANDOR KUDOS.

NICK: KUDOS -- OUTREACHES AND/OR KUDOS.

NICK: KUDOS, -- AND -- DID A GOOD JOB WITH THE LAW THAT IS GOING TO SAVE JOHNSON’S POND.

IT WAS DECIDED OVER THIS WEEK AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY GET SOME CREDIT.

THE ASSOCIATES WERE MAKING A MESS OF THE TOWN AND JOHNSON’S POND.

JIM: THEY OWN IT.

THEY WANTED TO LOWER THE LEVEL.

THE STATE PASSED A LAW SAYING YOU CANNOT DO THAT WITHOUT A PERMIT AND THEY WERE CHALLENGING THAT BOB.

NICK: THAT IS CORRECT.

THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

MIKE: THIS WEEK A COMPANY CALLED OPTIMUM FINANCIAL HAS ANNOUNCED THEY PURCHASED OR WILL PURCHASE THE TWO HOSPITALS, SAINT ANN’S AND THE OTHER.

I AM CONCERNED THAT A COMPANY CALLED OPTIMUM FINANCIAL WILL BE RUNNING THE HOSPITALS AND WE MAY SEE SOME OF THAT AND WOULD I VENT.

WE HAVE THESE FINANCIAL COMPANIES BUYING HOSPITALS AND RUNNING HEALTH CARE.

JIM: YEARS AGO WITH PATRICK KENNEDY -- DID YOU HAVE OVERLAP WITH HIM?

MIKE: THAT WAS PROBABLY NICK.

NICK: NOT -- PATRICK KENNEDY WAS IN CONGRESS WHEN I WAS HOUSE MINORITY WHIP.

JIM: DON’T HAVE ANY FOR-PROFIT HOSPITALS COME IN AND THEN THE DEMO BENT.

THAT WAS THE BIG THING ON CHARTER CARE COMING IN AT WHERE HEALTH CARE IS GOING.

I THINK IS A BAD DIRECTION.

IT IS ALMOST LIKE NEWSPAPERS BEING RUN BY HEDGE FUND MANAGERS.

NICK: PATRICK KENNEDY DID FIGHT THAT.

IT IS ONE OF THE MANY LEGACIES HE HAD.

AT THE TIME I DISAGREED WITH HIM ON MANY THINGS BUT LOOKING BACK, HE WAS RIGHT.

JIM: IT WAS COLUMBIA COMING IN OR SOMETHING AND THEY BEAT BACK THE CHALLENGE.

THAT WAS BACK IN THE DARK AGES.

STEPH: WE STEPPED ON MY OUTRAGE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE APRA BILL, BUT I WANT TO POINT OUT THE DRAMATIC IRONY OF ALL OF THE STATE AGENCIES COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK TO TESTIFY AGAINST THE BILL WHEN MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN FOUND TO HAVE VIOLATED APRA AND THEY ADMITTED THE FEES ARE GOOD BECAUSE IT GIVES THE REQUESTER TO NARROW THEIR REQUEST.

ARE THEY ARE LEVYING FEES SPECIFICALLY TO GET US TO NARROW OUR REQUEST AND POTENTIALLY EXCLUDE SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE ANY PUBLIC INTEREST?

-- MIGHT BE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST?

I THINK TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING THE PEOPLE WHO ARE FILLING THESE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST.

WE SHOULD NOT BE DOUBLE PAYING FOR THE WORK IT TAKES TO FILL THE APRA.

JIM: YOU NARROWED THE REQUEST.

YOURS WAS PRETTY WIDE.

STEPH: AND THEY DID NOT CHARGE ME.

THE DEITY DID NOT COME WITH THE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE DID.

NICK: I THINK THEY WERE CHARGING THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL.

I THINK KATHY PUT IT IN HER STORY.

JIM: DIFFERENT AMOUNTS.

THAT IS ALL OF THE TIME WE HAVE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MIKE, GOOD TO SEE YOU BACK.

NICK AND STEPH.

WE ARE IN THE HEAT OF THE SESSION.

WE WILL HAVE NEWS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT EASTER WEEKEND.

♪ >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

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