- [Announcer 1] This week on "A Lively Experiment," the death of Senate President Dominick Ruggerio, his legacy and what it means for the Upper Chamber going forward.

And Governor McKee announces an ambitious plan to increase the state's housing stock over the next five years.

- [Announcer 2] "A Lively Experiment" is generously underwritten by.

- Hi, I'm John Hazen White, Jr. For over 30 years, "A Lively Experiment" has provided insight and analysis of the political issues that face Rhode Islanders.

I'm a proud supporter of this great program and Rhode Island PBS.

- [Announcer 1] Joining us on the panel, Mary Barden, Executive Director of the National Education Association Rhode Island, attorney and former Cranston Mayor Allan Fung, and Bill Bartholomew, political contributor and host of the "Bartholomewtown" Podcast.

- Hi, everyone, and welcome to "Lively," I'm Jim Hummel.

It came as little surprise given his health struggles the past two years, but a shock nevertheless.

The announcement early Monday that the state's longest-serving lawmaker Senate President Dominick Ruggerio, lost his battle with cancer.

His death leaves a huge vacuum in the Senate and many reflecting on his time at the State House.

Bill, let me begin with you, we're taping this on a Friday morning.

The latest is, is that now Senate Majority Leader Val Lawson and Senator Frank Ciccone have formed an alliance.

We thought maybe one or the other was gonna be running.

Senator Ryan Pearson, the former majority leader says, not so fast.

- A little bit of palace intrigue.

First of all, obviously rest in peace to President Ruggerio, Legislative Lion.

Definitely somebody, when you think about the State House for a long time, you're gonna think about Dominick Ruggerio.

He'll echo through that chamber for a long time.

- Yeah.

- We'll put it that way.

In terms of right now, it's really interesting because a statement was released yesterday by the Senate's Press Office saying that Lawson is gonna be your president.

Essentially they have the, well, the implication is that she has the votes.

And then Ryan Pearson who famously kinda had a falling out with Dominick Ruggerio earlier this year when he attempted to basically out Ruggerio as president due to these health issues, he's claiming that he may be able to get the votes in spite of the fact that this press release came out that makes it appear as though Lawson has the vote.

So, it's palace intrigue.

It may be playing out as we speak right now, remains to be seen, can he form that coalition, which would require flipping some Democrats and getting Republicans?

- Allan?

No, it's a possibility 'cause it's a numbers game.

But the old adage says, you never put out in the press unless you have counted your votes.

That's the old statehouse adage.

So, right now it appears that, you know, Frank and Val have the votes, you know, in their pockets lined up.

However, if the progressive wing that Pearson has, because remember he had nine votes last time, two kind of abstain from the caucus vote.

If he can pull four Democrats and there's a possibility, there's always a pathway and line up with Republicans, like Bill said, you could create some interesting dynamics and really change how that State House operates from the old way of doing business.

- Where do the Republicans fit in on this?

I know they only have four votes, but in a race that's close, they're important.

- Absolutely, and that's what I said.

If you can flip four Democrats, get those two that were sitting on the sidelines, plus four Democrats.

The, yeah, sorry, I can't even say Democrats (laughing) - [Jim] You don't like saying the word Democrat, I get it, that's okay.

- Get four Ds to flip.

The Republicans are now in play to drive what they want as an agenda.

And here's where, you know, the progressives really have to take a strong look at themselves, whether they're gonna stick to ideology or what they consider a dirty word and compromise and play that game to give a little to get what they really want and that's power.

- Mary.

- Certainly, first of all, with great sadness and the loss of President Dominick Ruggerio, he was a champion for public education pre-K to higher ed and for working family.

So, it's a great loss for the Senate Chamber, it's a great loss for all of Rhode Island.

This is a decision for the Senate Chamber to make, but there's one thing that I know is the type of leader that Val Lawson is.

I mean, she's a leader who leads with her values around working people, her values around good public schools for everyone.

Her values around collaboration, consensus and listening to all voices.

And so she would make a great Senate leader.

- Yeah, the, were you gonna say?

- Well, I think right now there's a couple of things playing out.

One, obviously common cause has expressed potential concern or ethics concern about the fact that Senator Lawson is the President of the National Education Association of Rhode Island, can she also serve as the President of the Rhode Island Senate?

There's a lot of dynamics there that need to be fleshed out on an opinion level and a practical level.

That's one factor.

But to Allan's point, I think this is a big moment where progressives and Republicans have a lot in common.

They have a lot in common philosophically.

And what is that?

It's outsiders versus insiders.

And if you can form a coalition of people who have traditionally been on the outside of the Democratic Party machine in Rhode Island, progressives, Republicans, freethinking mainstream Democrats, you can shake things up and that chamber, the Senate Chamber can all of a sudden become almost like a rebel space of sorts.

That's the dynamic that's really at play right now.

Institutional versus outsider.

- And if everything goes according to plan, this will probably the first time you've seen labor with such a strong hold with both the number one and two seats in, you know, that chamber if you know everything holds true.

So, to Bill's point you can really disrupt that dynamic because look, Donnie was great.

He's been up there longer than my wife was alive.

You know, so he really was an institution up there, did a lot of great things, and you know, really told the line for labor, did a lot for the working people throughout Rhode Island.

But is it time to continue on that path and really further strengthen labor?

Or is it the time to kind of flip things on its head because it's not just flipping one chamber of the house, it could change the dynamic of that State House if the Progressives play it smart.

- You know, a lot of people don't remember, he started out in the house, in the early '80s.

He had two terms and then the whole deal, his father-in-law was Rocco Schalkwyk, for those of you old time (laughing) remember.

- [Allan] Rocco's Robots?

- Yeah, Rocco's Robots in that '83 election.

So, then he went to the Senate.

But you know, he was the faithful number two to Teresa Paiva-Weed for so many years.

And a lot of people didn't really know him.

I think he grew into the role, and I don't know what it was like for you, 'cause I know you probably had conversations on education.

Just what, for people who just see him from the outside, what was it like interacting with him?

- I think he was someone who really listened to people who was really looking to collaborate.

And I think from our perspective, you know, we're always looking as advocates to move politicians on the issues towards our issues.

And we have to think that people are gonna move.

And I think he was always someone who was open to new ideas and was listening and was willing to move.

I think you saw throughout his career that particularly at the end, there were ideas that maybe he didn't necessarily, you know, he wasn't, you know, with what we thought was the right idea, but over time was willing to listen and to move on issues.

- You saw him soften a little bit this year saying about the assault weapons ban, which he had, and Mattiello particularly when he was in the house.

What are you looking at now with the dynamic?

It's so hard mid, I mean, we're really heading into the home stretch now with the general assembly, and the leadership will make a difference, what does this mean for the end of the session with a change in leadership at the Senate?

- You know, it depends on what, you know Val and Frank are gonna put out as their plan to- - I love how (crosstalk) basis already with Val and Frank.

(Allan laughing) It's Rhode Island, right?

- Well, you can't call him president yet, or, you know, majority leader yet.

So, you know, but both individuals are gonna have to set what they want to see as an agenda for not just their chamber, but for the house, because they have a opportunity impact and shake up those legislations that were on the table or now potentially not on the table anymore.

And you mentioned one, you know, with the ban, but take a look at even some of these issues that have been percolating for years.

You know, smoking at the casinos- - At the casinos.

- At Bally's, you know- - He was the one who stood up against it, yeah.

- He stood up against it.

So, you know, it could flip a lot of these issues and put them back into play versus some were dead, some were moving forward, who knows?

- What are you looking at?

- Exactly and to that point of political alignment of coalition forming, there are actually progressives who have social media polled their constituents about that assault weapons ban.

There are progressives who align with Republicans on weapons from the equity standpoint, from the self-defense standpoint, and some I've even seen make the argument of defense against the state or the police.

So, there's actually an interesting dynamic there where progressives in some cases are more aligned with Republicans than mainstream Democrats or moms demand action on assault weapons.

So, if those coalitions formulate and Pearson somehow becomes President, that's one thing to look for.

But Allan, you're a football person, you know, this is a, you need a management quarterback.

You know, you need an Alex Smith right now to get the Senate to the May Estimated Revenue Conference.

Understand what's happening on the ground.

This isn't a time for dramatic shift.

You need somebody to manage us through this year and really let the- - And then regroup over the summer and get, right?

- Absolutely.

- Yeah, and it's an off year.

All right, we had a lot of news break late in the week.

Governor McKee had a press conference late on Thursday actually on Wednesday talking about housing and increasing the housing stock.

How many times have we talked about that on this show?

One of the stats was interesting.

Between 2019 and 2023, only 8,500 new homes received the required, and we need a lot more than that.

- [Mary] We do.

- So, I mean, this seems ambitious, but the devil's in the details on how you get to it.

So, what did you think when you saw that?

- I mean, it is certainly ambitious and 15,000 new homes over that period of time is still not going to meet the demand that we have now.

- That's his goal, 15 between now and 2030- - 2030, right?

For the 2030 plan.

But that isn't even gonna meet the demand that we currently have.

And so the plan is ambitious and even if we get there, this would be the biggest kind of investment, and level of production, and housing that we've probably seen in a generation.

But we still have an attractive housing market here and we need to do something to make sure families are staying here, that Rhode Islands are staying here, but that we're also attracting people to come here.

And I think when you say the devil's in the details, I think that piece about accountability at the municipal level.

I mean, we already have a law on the books that municipalities should have 10% of affordable housing, and we only have, I believe, four communities that are meeting that level now, 10 years after the legislation was passed.

- Yeah.

- So there has to be something where municipalities are held accountable to that 10% level because we know that's not happening.

- When they set that benchmark, it was so arbitrary.

I mean, it really- - It really was.

- I mean, and no, there's no enforcement.

- Right.

- So.

- And that's what I had to, when I, you know, saw the- - How's Cranston doing?

- What's that?

- How's Cranston doing?

- Well Cranston has the exemption too with a lot of the high rises that we have.

So, as far as numbers wise, you know, we're definitely not at the 10% gap.

- [Jim] Five, 6% maybe.

- Yeah, about 6%, you know, right now.

But you know, a lot of our planning department is putting in with new developments, you know, a portion of it has to be affordable.

So, they're trying to reach those goals.

But one thing I will have to say is a one size fits all scenario, like that arbitrary 10% doesn't make sense.

And putting out this grand plan, which I think all of us agree, you know, whether you're Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Progressive, housing is a big issue in Rhode Island as well as across the country.

But how you implement the plan is gonna be critical.

And whether or not you listen to a lot of the stakeholders is a big piece.

'Cause when the announcement of the plan came out, oh, and you hear the governor say, we've got 30 days of listening period.

What is that?

- [Jim] Hmm.

- You cannot take all the stakeholders that have a vested (crosstalk) in 30 days, and you can't jam this stuff down your throat, like what we've seen with this arbitrary 10%.

You know, you've got different communities that are way over, you know, the cap such as like Woonsocket, Newport, you know, there were four or five that are over the cap, but even then you're still trying to jam stuff down their throats too.

Let's take a pause.

It's great that you have a plan out there, but let's not put a plan out there just for campaign purposes next year.

- It all comes down to municipalities when we're talking housing.

I mean, that's clearly the front line of all the discussions.

You can have the robust package or the suites of bills that Speaker Shekarchi has proposed.

You can have mandates of minimum percentages of affordable housing.

If a municipality isn't willing to do what it takes to get to that threshold or to allow for the construction of new homes with the zoning, repurposing, it's irrelevant.

You know, I don't know what the Department of Housing, the Secretary of Housing does all day, I have no idea what her day-to-day life looks like.

But if I were to step in and create that department, it would be an ambassador role.

And 80 to 90% of the time would be spent negotiating with municipal leaders and negotiating with developers about, what do you need and how do we get there right now?

- So, let's work with you.

Because a lot of the communities see it as the state trying to impose and look, I think the bills were ambitious, but we've seen this, Narragansett is different than Central Falls, is different from Newport, is different from Westerly.

And I think we've already seen some resistance from the localities.

Like, why are these people in the state telling us this is the community that I have to live in, right?

- Right, well I think there has to be some flexibility.

I mean, I think to Allan's point and Bill's point, there has to be flexibility that's gonna allow the municipalities, you know, to do what's gonna work in their community and with their land development.

But I also think, I'm not sure that I agree that this is being shoved down their throats.

I mean, we've 10 years already that we've been looking to increase affordable housing and municipalities have known this.

And so I think that there is a responsibility at their level in order to implement this the way it works in their community in some way and working with everyone together.

But we have to do something.

I mean, not doing anything is not the answer.

- But, you know, to one of the things that Bill pointed out, we still don't have an idea of what the so-called Secretary of Housing really is doing.

And you know, in reading some of the articles, I think she also shows she's not a true Rhode Island that understands that those smaller communities, 'cause when she made that statement that, oh, it's gonna be a carrot and also a stick approach, and we'll make sure those smaller communities follow, really?

You know, take a look at how long it's gotten to the table.

By making a statement like that, you've just alienated tons of small communities throughout Rhode Island, tons of mayors, tons of town managers that have heavy influence over their constituencies.

And if you haven't been in Rhode Island, you don't understand- - And there's been some not so quiet resistance in some communities.

She better not be drinking Del's with a straw.

- That's what- - That's it.

- He better tell her if she's coming from Massachusetts, that that will sink her right- - I wanna see a pile of those little miniature lemons that you spit out all over the- - There you go.

- Secretary of Housing- - Not as many lemons as we used to get.

But I agree with you on the ambassador because yeah, the litmus test, she doesn't use her blinkers hopefully.

- [Bill] Yeah.

- Bill, I agree with you totally.

If you spent a lot of time saying, look, we're here to work together, not shove this down your throat.

I understand your point, but I think a lot of people see a lot of the local communities and the zoning boards who have been doing a lot of work see it that way, don't they?

- Right, I mean, I think in some places they do.

I think in some places they do.

But I also think that there's a resistance to affordable housing that some communities definitely need to get beyond that we need to have if we want- - [Jim] The stick rather than the carrot- - Well, and if we wanna keep Rhode Islanders here, I mean, you know, you have anyone who has like, you know, a young adult in your life who's in their 20s or early 30s and who's looking to buy a home here or even to rent an apartment in Providence, it's unaffordable.

And we can't continue that, if we wanna say we wanna keep people here in Rhode Island and we want Rhode Islanders to stay, every community needs to be on board in order to make that happen.

- Yeah, and it's not even just on the younger spectrum, you've got a lot of people on the older spectrum- - Being priced out.

- Getting priced out.

And that's why, you know, last year they, you know, Speaker Shekarchi's bill, especially on the ADUs are one part of the solution, you know, because it is helping those families that are transitioning, but we still need more.

'Cause you know, like I said when I first started on this conversation, this isn't an issue that impacts all spectrum regardless of party politics.

I don't know why I'm struggling with- - [Jim] Yeah, there you go, just don't say Democrats again.

- That's right, you know, these are ours, how's that?

But bottom line is we've got to come together, put the appropriate listening tools into place, and try to work towards a compromise.

It's not a bad word to get things right.

- Yeah.

- As we head toward the end of the general assembly session, I just wanna trans into, you know, the budget's always a big difficulty.

A lot of bills are gonna be in play.

We don't know what's happening with the Senate.

Allan, what are you keeping your eye on?

- You know, I think a couple things that are gonna say, whether or not the leadership battle is real, and most importantly, what are some of the commitments on some of those bills?

And for me as a lawyer, what happens to some of those judgeships that were promised that were in play before?

- Right, 'cause the Senate confirms.

- Senate confirms.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- So, you know, as a lawyer, I wanna make sure that we've got, you know, judges out there that have been practitioners, that have tried cases, that understand both civil, criminal, you know, because they have a profound impact on daily lives of people that are going into that judiciary system.

- And the reality is, we have some judges who are on getting close to retirement, let's put it that way.

- [Allan] Yeah.

- Could've retired a long time ago.

So there's gonna be that big turnaround, that's gonna make, we've seen that on the federal level, that's gonna make a huge difference for generations to come.

If you have people in their 30s, 40s, early 50s.

- No question about it.

- That's lifetime- - That's a great point.

That is probably topic number one in a pragmatic sense.

I mean, I'm looking for revenue, May Revenue Estimated Conference second time, we've said that today.

But that's what we need to understand in terms of how we're gonna be able to implement things in this state.

You know, coming out of the period of COVID money, understanding a marketplace in general, filled with uncertainty.

We need to know how much money we have to work with.

And once, you know, you could sit here and speculate, well, assault weapons go through or not, and that's interesting.

But how stable is the state of Rhode Island gonna be and how much are we gonna be prepared to make the critical investments?

Forget the 2030 plan, the 2100 plan.

We should be thinking about so many different things right now, but can we?

Are we practically set up for success going into the future?

- What are you keeping your eye on down the stretch?

- Certainly like student health and wellbeing is a priority for NEA Rhode Island.

And as we all know that there's a student mental health crisis amongst our kids and it has an impact in classrooms.

And so we are keeping an eye on a bill that would limit cell phone usage in classrooms K to 12.

- Are you for that?

- During the school day, We absolutely are.

- [Jim] And have been lobbying for it?

- We have been.

- Yeah.

- And it has a, you'll hear from our members and our members testified this week that it has an impact on the classroom.

It has an impact from cyber bullying, it's a distraction, it's hard to instruct students when they have the phone under the desk and they're not paying attention, and then that creates its own drama.

And in the places where we've seen these cell phone restrictions implemented, sometimes with those Yondr pouches where the students have them on them, there has been a decrease, I think in one school, 80% decrease in student behaviors.

- Central Falls.

- Yes, yes.

- They've been doing it, yeah.

- I've seen Mayor Rivera speak about how it's worked.

Students are looking at each other in the eye, in the hallway, they're not- - Refreshing?

- Yes.

And at lunch they're playing games, they're having conversations and that social interaction, especially post-COVID is so important, and so it's certainly- - Have you talked to your AFT brethren about that too?

- We have.

- As a united front on that?

- We have, absolutely.

and I know that in Providence where Maribeth Calabro was teaching that they introduced a pilot there and she can speak to the success of it there as well.

And that it really helps with students' mental health and wellbeing.

It helps with instruction.

And if we really wanna like improve academic success for students, it's gonna be a piece of the puzzle.

It's not the answer certainly, but it's something that we're watching.

- Also every year education funding's, and I haven't really, we haven't talked to many education people on this show.

Glad to have you here.

First of all, thank you, welcome.

This is Mary's first show.

- Thank you.

- So, we don't have the balloons and the sirens going off, but nice to have you here.

- Thank you.

- How are you feeling about the funding formula or what the governor put in his budget so far?

Would you like to see more as the house massages it a little bit?

- I mean, I think we'd always certainly like to see more, I think with the loss of the ESSER Funds that we've seen from school districts, those things were funding things that we needed all along.

They weren't add-ons, they weren't, it wasn't money that added additional programs that were unnecessary, there were programs we needed all along.

So, certainly we're looking for additional funding around mental health, school social workers would certainly be helpful.

I think there's a long-term conversation that's happening around the funding formula.

It's been it place for 10 years and I think that it's time that we need to take a look at it and there needs to be some tweaks made in order to make sure that it's fully funding education in all the municipalities.

And it comes back to the question we had around housing, like to make sure municipalities are paying their fair share because across the state, urban, suburban and rural, there are districts who aren't paying their fair share.

- Just briefly before we get to outrageous, it's been silence from the governor's office on this whole primary doctor situation, Anchor Medical, I mean, 25,000 people.

We talked about this at length on "Lively" over the last month.

I've heard nothing from the governor or the legislature.

And I wonder why the silence, wouldn't you at least stand up and say, we're working on it, there are doctors here, we're gonna try to pair 'em up.

Now, I'm hearing there may be a press conference, some we're taping on a Friday morning, either later today or Monday.

But what do you make of that?

- Well, to your point, I'm hearing that there is some movement and as to when that movement comes out, will it predate, or post date when this show airs?

We'll find out.

But hey, look, I mean it's not just Anchor.

You know, we have a healthcare crisis in the state that's unfathomable.

And I spoke with the CEO and COO of Blackstone Valley Community Health last week on "Bartholomewtown" and they said, look, we're ready to absorb some patients, but we can't do much.

Same with Thundermist, other community health organizations around the state.

This is a huge problem.

I mean, everybody knows it.

If you're trying to get a primary care doctor as far as the politics of it, I mean, geez, wouldn't you think it would be a great chance to do a press conference in front of one of the Anchor facilities?

You know, and you stand there, you know, no tie, just stand there and say, hey, I'm with you.

I'm a human being, this is wrong, we need to figure this out.

And if I have to get an air mattress out and sleep in the State House to figure this out, this is priority number one.

Instead we have talk radio speculation and people not able to find a doctor.

And that's the vacuum that we have, it's unfathomable.

- It could get worse too, because- - When we talk about the judges retiring, the doctors are retiring, right?

- Doctors are retiring.

And to, you know, both Bill and Mary were talking about with what's upcoming in the budget, it's gonna have an impact what's happening federally too, because those changes to that 1115 Medicaid waiver and how we're using some of those funds, whether we can have that ability and flexibility to use it or not, or some of those funds getting taken away, it could cause a catastrophic impact, not just on the budget, but on healthcare in Rhode Island carte blanche.

And that's one of the stuff that we have to get ahead of it as not just a government, but as individuals.

Because we're living through trying not only find primary care doctors, but trying to attract and maintain, you know, any medical professional in Rhode Island.

It's tough- - Trying to build the bench.

- Build a bench, absolutely.

- Well, I think in this legislative session too, we need to look at increasing the Medicaid reimbursement, which is only a, again, of small piece of this puzzle, but- - Which we should've been doing years ago.

- Yes.

- And now we're crime poverty.

Oh, we don't have the money anymore, right?

- Right, there, you know, there's a significant number of Rhode Islanders who are receiving Medicaid and that reimbursement level is low.

So, I mean, the legislature needs to look at increasing that, which will at least, you know, help a little bit.

But this is, it's a crisis and we all know that someone's doctor retires and you can't find a physician and then that leads people into the ER, which is already overburdened and the crisis continues, I think to Bill's point.

- Okay, let's go to outrageous and/or kudos.

Mr. Fung, what do you have this week?

- As Bill noted, it's football time.

Fantasy football is my thing.

- [Jim] He started already.

- I watched the draft last night.

Kudos to a Rhode Islander Liam Coen- - [Jim] Yeah.

- Who had the intestinal fortitude to make one of the major blockbuster trades to get a generational talent in Travis Hunter, but outraged to Jerod Mayo for winning.

Winning that last game and (cross talk) Travis Hunter in Rhode Island.

- Yeah, could have been, well (crosstalk) it's interesting that they traded up to number two, which they had to use some draft capital to be able to do that.

That was a bold move.

- Very bold move.

- Yeah, we remember him when he was playing at La Salle those years ago, right?

- Absolutely.

- Crazy.

Mr. Bartholomew, what do you have?

- Some people call him the king of the road, but lately he's been more like the court jester.

He's beclowned himself on a regular basis.

That's Peter Alviti, the Director of the Department of Transportation.

- [Jim] Beclowned, I like that word.

- There it is.

- It's a new word.

- His communications on the Washington Bridge have been nothing short of an exercise in futility.

It's been a disaster date certain promise that have come and gone.

And now he seems to have been muzzled.

And yet again another DOT snafu this time a DOT contractor tearing down an entire micro ecosystem off of Routes 10 and 1.

They once again on a communications level fumble, trying to explain it.

There were rare birds in there.

Who knows what kind of nature was destroyed.

But also Providence has been flooding.

We need trees to absorb flood waters coming off of where?

Route 10, not good.

DOT once again, outrageous.

- And that leaves you the last minute.

What do you have an outrage or a kudo?

- There's a lot to be outraged about, that's for certain, but it's my first time on "Lively," so I'll take a kudo.

- [Jim] Sure.

- So, to the federal court in New Hampshire yesterday issued a preliminary injunction against the Department of Education in regards to their "Dear Colleague" letter, which would have forced school districts and colleges and universities to comply with eliminating Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion activities.

And so it's a first step in pushing back against the Trump administration and their incursions into education.

- We didn't even get to the Trump administration this week.

I think it's the first time we have so much going on.

But anyhow, great to see you guys.

Bill, good to see you, Allan, Mary, nice to have you.

- Thank you.

- We hope to have you back.

- [Mary] Thank you - Folks, if you don't catch us Friday at 7:00 or Sunday at noon, we archive all of our shows at ripbs.org.

And the other thing you can find at ripbs.org, earlier this week, Ed Fitzpatrick from "The Boston Globe" and I had Senator Jack Reed and Congressman Gabe Amo right here on the "Lively" set for an hour-long discussion about what's happening in Washington during the first 100 days of the Trump administration and by extension, the ripple effect on Rhode Island.

So, if you wanna see that, we have it posted online right now.

It's the front story, the front video, ripbs.org/lively.

Have a great weekend, we'll see you here next week as "A Lively Experiment" continues.

(bright music) - [Announcer 2] "A Lively Experiment" is generously underwritten by.

- Hi, I'm John Hazen White, Jr. For over 30 years, "A Lively Experiment" has provided insight and analysis of the political issues that face Rhode Islanders.

I'm a proud supporter of this great program in Rhode Island PBS.