[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] JIM: THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," RHODE ISLAND DODGES A BULLET, KEEPING BOTH OF ITS CONGRESSIONAL SEATS.

MORE COVID RESTRICTIONS ARE BEING ROLLED BACK.

WHAT WILL THIS SUMMER LOOK LIKE?

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I'M JOHN HE'S IN WHITE AND I'M PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM ON RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US WITH THE ANALYSIS, SUE CIENKI, CHAIRWOMAN OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, ANALYSTS LOU PULNER AND IAN DONNIS, POLITICAL AND INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER.

I'M JIM HUMMEL, AND WELCOME TO "LIVELY."

THE POLITICAL PROGNOSTICATORS SAID IT WAS INEVITABLE THAT RHODE ISLAND WOULD LOSE ONE OF ITS CONGRESSIONAL SEATS, SETTING UP AN INTRIGUING SCENARIO NEXT YEAR FOR THE INCUMBENTS DAVID CICILLINE AND DAMAGED -- THEY WERE WRONG WHEN RHODE ISLAND'S POPULATION JUSTIFY KEEPING THAT SEAT.

I SAT DOWN WITH JOHN MARY, THE LONG TIME HEAD OF -- RHODE ISLAND, WHO WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE IN THE FOR ONE WAS COUNTED, EVEN DURING THE PANDEMIC.

JOHN: THE PANDEMIC CREATED A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY AROUND THE CENSUS.

GROUPS HAD TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY DID OUTREACH.

SINCE HIS HAD TO CHANGE THE TIMEFRAME FOR DOORKNOCKING -- THE CENSUS HAD TO CHANGE THE TIMEFRAME FOR DOORKNOCKING SO I WAS PESSIMISTIC THAT WE WOULD LOSE, BUT THERE WAS UNCERTAINTY AROUND THE QUESTION.

THE BIGGER NEWS IN SOME WAYS, FINANCIALLY, WAS NOT THAT WE ARE KEEPING A SECOND CONGRESSIONAL SEAT.

IT IS THAT WE GREW UNEXPECTEDLY FAST IN THE LAST DECADE, SO THERE ARE MORE THAN 40,000 RHODE ISLANDERS IN 2020 THAT THERE WEREN'T IN 2010.

THAT'S GOING TO YIELD A LOT OF MONEY.

IT'S ROUGHLY $2000 PER PERSON, PER YEAR, FOR 10 YEARS.

THE FEDERAL MONEY TAXPAYERS PAY WILL GO BACK TO THE STATE BASED ON THE CENSUS.

RHODE ISLAND WAS THE ONLY PLACE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE THE CENSUS BUREAU TESTED THE CENSUS.

THEY CAME IN AND HIRED 1000 PEOPLE IN RHODE ISLAND IN 2018 TO DO A CENSUS, NOBODY KNEW ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY SPENT ZERO DOLLARS ON ADVERTISING AND OUTREACH.

HERE'S WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE IF NOBODY DOES OUTREACH.

BIGGER STATES LIKE TEXAS, FLORIDA, AN ARIZONA THAT DID NOT GAIN THE SEATS THEY EXPECTED, THEY SPENT ZERO DOLLARS ON OUTREACH.

RHODE ISLAND SPENT $1.5 MILLION, ONE $.5 MILLION THEN RHODE ISLAND EVER SPENT AND THAT WILL YIELD ROUGHLY 100 MILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL MONEY COMING BACK TO THE STATE.

JIM: GOOD NEWS ALL AROUND.

YOU'VE DONE SOME REPORTING AND I KNOW YOU SPOKE TO JOHN MARY.

YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE SURPRISE -- WERE YOU SURPRISED?

IAN: I WAS SURPRISED.

MANY TOOK THIS AS A FAIT AC COMPLI THAT WE WOULD LOSE A SEAT.

IT KEEPS MORE FEDERAL MONEY MOVING INTO RHODE ISLAND AND MAINTAINS THE STATUS QUO AS FAR AS HAVING TWO CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES, WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOSS IN STATURE IF THE STATE HAD LOST ONE.

WHENEVER POLITICAL REPORTERS LIKE ME TALK TO LEADERS, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN THE SEATS ARE SELECTED, AND THEIR STOCK REPLY WAS, THAT SO FAR AWAY, I DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THAT.

THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY RIDICULOUS.

CICILLINE CAME OUT WITH AN AGGRESSIVE STATEMENT ABOUT HIS FUNDRAISING A FEW WEEKS AGO IN KIND OF A SHOW OF FORCE, BUT FOR THE BENEFIT OF BLANCHE MEN AND CICILLINE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.

I THINK IT WAS -- I DON'T THINK IT WAS EVER GOING TO COME TO A HEAD TO HEAD RACE, AND DAN MCKEE SHOULD BUY A LOTTERY TICKET BECAUSE HE IS HAVING GOOD LUCK AS FAR AS TIMING WITH THE PANDEMIC, DEBATING, THE FEDERAL STIMULUS MONEY, AND NOW WITH MORE MONEY THANKS TO THE RESULTS OF THE REAPPORTIONMENT.

LOU: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, THE GOVERNMENT IS -- GOVERNOR IS ALSO BENEFITING FROM THE FACT THAT WE KEEP THEM AND NEITHER ONE OF THEM WILL BE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

JIM: EXACTLY.

SUE, YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH TWO REPUBLICANS INSTEAD OF ONE.

SUE: I THINK IT IS GREAT NEWS.

I WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON THE OTHERS THAT WAS SAYING WE ARE GOING TO KEEP IT.

I LOOKED AT SOME OF THE OTHER STATES WHO ARE NOT DOING -- WHAT OTHER STATES ARE NOT DOING IN TERMS OF COUNTING, NEW YORK LOST A SEAT BECAUSE OF 89 PEOPLE.

HAD THEY COUNTED 89 PEOPLE, THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT A SEAT.

IN TERMS OF THE 435 SEATS THERE, WE ARE NOW AT 428, WHICH ISN'T GREAT NEWS, BUT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS IT IS GOOD NEWS FOR US.

WE WOULD HAVE LOST A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF FEDERAL DOLLARS.

I SAY IN THE NATIONAL SCENE, WE ARE INCONSEQUENTIAL AND WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY INCONSEQUENTIAL AND IRRELEVANT TO EVERYBODY HAD WE LOST A SEAT.

HE WOULD'VE LOST AN ELECTORAL VOTE AND HAD FOUR.

IT WASN'T SINCE 1790 THAT WE HAD ONE CONGRESSIONAL SEAT.

WE WENT 1, 2, 3 AND WE WERE ON THE DOWNSIDE FROM 3, 2, TO ONE.

KUDOS TO EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THE CENSUS.

I HAD WORKED THE 2010 CENSUS AND WAS WORRIED BECAUSE WE WERE RAZOR THIN THEN.

I'M GRATEFUL FOR EVERYBODY THAT FILLED OUT THAT CENSUS.

IT IS GOOD NEWS.

JIM: ONE OTHER QUICK POINT, A COUPLE YEARS AGO SOME PEOPLE SCOFFED WHEN STATE REPRESENTATIVE CARLOS TO BOND SUGGESTED GIVING PEOPLE A STIPEND TO MOVE TO RHODE ISLAND.

IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE STATE TO THINK ABOUT ITS POPULATION.

WE HAVE 10 YEARS TO CONSIDER GROWTH AND HOW RHODE ISLAND CAN MAINTAIN ITS POLITICAL REPRESENTATION GOING FORWARD.

PROVIDENCE WAS A MUCH MORE POPULOUS CITY 100 YEARS AGO.

THERE IS ROOM TO GROW IN TERMS OF POPULATION AND ITS TAX BASE, SO THAT SOMETHING ELECTED OFFICIAL SHOULD THINK ABOUT.

JIM: WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THE RESULTS?

LOU: I WAS, BUT I WAS GRATIFIED.

KUDOS TO JOHN MARION.

A SOLID EFFORT, PROTECTED THE STATE GOING FORWARD FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS, AND I THINK HE DESERVES A LOT OF CREDIT.

JIM: AND YOU REMEMBER, HE TALKED ABOUT -- I HAD TOTALLY FORGOTTEN ABOUT THIS -- THEY RAN A TRIAL IN 2018.

THERE WAS THE ISSUE UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WITH THE QUESTION OF IMMIGRATION, BUT THE TRIAL RUN I THINK SET THE STAGE.

I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, TWO YEARS AGO SET THE STAGE FOR HOW TO DO IT, BUT HE TOLD ME NEW YORK HAD TO PIVOT BECAUSE OF THE YOU COULDN'T GO DOOR TO DOOR.

NEW YORK WAS READY TO SPEND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND RHODE ISLAND WAS NIBBLING AT THE PIVOT.

IAN: THERE WERE ALSO CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS SUPERVISING THE CENSUS PROCESS AND WHETHER THAT WAS GOING TO INHIBIT THE COUNT.

IT WAS LIKE TRYING TO DO THE SENSES UNDER THE MOST ARDUOUS CIRCUMSTANCES WITH THE PANDEMIC AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

THE WAY IT WORKED OUT FOR RHODE ISLAND COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER.

JIM: IT MAY BE EARLY IN THE SHOW, BUT KUDOS TO KATHY GREG AND "THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL," TRYING TO RELENTLESSLY GET THE INFORMATION OF WHO WORKED AT THE CONVENTION CENTER.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID IT IS A PRIVATE COMPANY BUT HIRE THE EMPLOYEES, THE VAST MAJORITY, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE PUBLIC TO KNOW THIS.

IT SHOULD BE A PUBLIC RECORD.

NO SURPRISE AT ALL, IT IS A LIST OF EVERYBODY'S COUSIN, UNCLE, SISTER-IN-LAW, AND EVERYONE ELSE.

WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU READ THAT STORY?

SUE: IT WAS A GREAT JOB OF INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING, CERTAINLY.

WHAT I SAW WAS, WE NEED OVERSIGHT.

THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY NEEDS TO DIG DEEP INTO WHAT CAP HE HAS DONE AND ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

WE ARE PAYING AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY.

IT WAS ONE OF THE AREAS WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT THAT THE GOVERNOR PUT UP A HOSPITAL.

4 MILLION DOLLARS THEY RECEIVED OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS THAT WERE NOT UTILIZED CORRECTLY, SO IT IS JUST MORE TAXPAYER DOLLARS BEING WASTED.

I THINK THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY REALLY NEEDS TO LOOK AT HOWEVER TAXPAYER DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT.

JIM: THEY LOST $30 MILLION LAST YEAR AND THEY WOULD ARGUE IT BRINGS IN A LOT OF REVENUE WHEN YOU HAVE THE NCAA AND CONCERTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

BUT THE SALARIES STRUCK ME AS BEING PRETTY HIGH FOR THE POSITIONS THAT WERE LISTED.

LOU: I THINK WE FUND THEM THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE, $30 MILLION A YEAR AND $17 MILLION IS USED FOR SALARIES AND PERSONNEL.

THAT'S OBVIOUSLY, MORE THAN 50%.

AGAIN, KUDOS TO "THE JOURNAL," AND TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

ONCE AGAIN, HE STEPPED IN LIKE HE DID WITH THE CRMC.

HE'S BEEN PROACTIVE IN BEING THERE FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE STATE, AND THIS IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

JIM: THIS IS AN AREA THAT FOR SO LONG HAS BEEN TOUGH TO GET IT AND NOW THE SUNSHINE IS FINALLY SHINING.

IAN: AS JUSTICE BRANDEIS SAID, SUNLIGHT IS THE BEST DISINFECTANT.

THIS INFORMATION IS ABSOLUTELY IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, SO KUDOS FOR FINDING THIS INFORMATION.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO CONNECT THESE DOTS.

I DID A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, LOOKING AT HOW PATRONAGE FROM THE DISTRICT HAD ALMOST TRIPLED DURING THE COURSE OF HIS TIME AS SPEAKER, SO IT IS IMPORTANT FOR REPORTERS AND NEWS ORGANIZATIONS TO PRESENT THIS INFORMATION SO THE PUBLIC CAN EVALUATE IT.

JIM: IT IS A SIDEBAR, BUT WHEN JOE SICARD SHE CAME IN, THAT DISTRICT 15 PAYROLL WENT OUT THE WINDOW, DIDN'T IT?

IAN: SURE DID, AND IT WILL BE WORTH FOLLOWING UP TO SEE IF MORE STATEHOUSE JOBS UNDER THE SPEAKER.

JIM: WE ARE JUST MOVING ALONG, THE OUTDOOR MASK MANDATE -- MOVING ALONG, THE OUTDOOR MASK MANDATE HAS BEEN REVISED BY THE CDC.

IT SETS UP AN INTERESTING SCENARIO, SOME SAY IT IS TOO SOON, OTHERS SAY WE WAITED TOO LONG.

I THINK IT IS CORRECT, OUTSIDE, THEY'VE SHOWN, IF MORE PEOPLE ARE VACCINATED IT IS VERY LOW RISK, BUT I WONDER HOW THIS WILL GO AS WE GO THROUGH THE SUMMER.

GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS THE HEALTH PEOPLE, THE BUSINESS PEOPLE, THE SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE.

HOW HE IS GOING TO NAVIGATE THAT AS WE BEGIN TO ROLLBACK THESE REGULATIONS?

LOU: IT IS CLEAR HE WANTS TO BE LIBERAL AND THE STATE OPENING UP.

AS HE SAID, MAKE YOUR RESERVATIONS FOR MOTHER'S DAY.

HE SAID THE CONCERTS IN NEWPORT, EVERYTHING WILL BE AGO, WHICH IS EXCITING.

IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO MIX THE MESSAGE.

WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN AN OUTRAGE WAS PRESIDENT BIDEN WALKING OUTSIDE OF THE WHITE HOUSE YESTERDAY UP TO THE PODIUM ALL ALONE WITH A MASK ON, TO TELL THE PEOPLE THAT WHEN YOU ARE OUTSIDE A MASK IS NO LONGER NECESSARY.

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THERE NOT BE MISSED -- MIXED MESSAGING AND I THINK GOVERNOR MCKEE IS ON TARGET AND DOING EVERYTHING THE RIGHT WAY.

SUE: I THINK LOU IS CORRECT ABOUT MIXED MESSAGING.

IT WAS INTERESTING LAST NIGHT WHEN HE SAW THE PRESIDENT GIVE HIS SPEECH TO CONGRESS, AND HE DIDN'T HAVE A MASK, THE VICE PRESIDENT AND SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE HAD MASKS ON, AND THEN WHEN THEY WERE LEAVING, THEY WERE NOT ABIDING BY SOCIAL DISTANCING.

THEY WERE TOUCHING AND HUGGING AND EVERYTHING.

THERE'S SO MANY MIXED MESSAGES THAT PEOPLE GET CONFUSED AS TO WHAT'S APPROPRIATE, WHAT'S NOT, DO YOU NEED MASKS OUTSIDE?

WHEN YOU GO TO A RESTAURANT, YOU HAVE TO WEAR ONE TO COME IN BUT WHEN YOU SIT DOWN, YOU DON'T NEED ONE.

IT IS AN AIRBORNE VIRUS.

THERE'S LOTS OF MIXED MESSAGES SO LET'S STICK TO WHAT'S IMPORTANT, FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, AND START OPENING OUR BUSINESSES BECAUSE THE ECONOMY WILL GET BACK BURGEONING.

IAN: THERE IS A LOT OF EMOTION, UNDERSTANDABLY, FROM PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GET BACK TO SOMETHING MORE LIKE WHAT IT WAS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE AND THE INDICATORS SEEM TO BE TRENDING IN A FAVORABLE DIRECTION WITH THE WARMER WEATHER.

THE CONCERN IS ABOUT THE VARIANTS AND THE GOOD NEWS HAPPENING NOW, MIGHT DISCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE FROM GETTING VACCINATED.

THAT WOULD BE A MISTAKE.

THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH FAXING HESITANCY, AND IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO CONTINUE TO GET VACCINATED TO NIP THE PANDEMIC WHERE IT IS, AND KEEP THINGS ON AN IMPROVING TREND.

THAT IS AN IMPORTANT THING TO WATCH.

JIM: THE GOVERNOR IS ABOUT TWO MONTHS IN.

WHENEVER HE COMES TO THE PODIUM, HE HAS GOT THE LITTLE CARD, LIKE JOE BIDEN HAS THE CARD WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE INFECTED AND DEATHS, TODAY IS 48.

TO ROUTE 9 DUE HE HAS NOT BEEN HERE FOREVER, -- HE HAS NOT BEEN HERE FOREVER.

WHAT'S YOUR SCORECARD?

IAN: HE IS A B "OUR TOWN -- B+.

HE IS CERTAINLY THE FRONT RUNNER.

JIM: IAN?

IAN: GOVERNOR MCKEE IS -- IT IS STILL EARLY AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THE SEPTEMBER PRIMARY, BUT HIS TONE IS GOOD, HE SEEMS RELATABLE, LIKE A TYPICAL RHODE ISLANDER.

HE SEEMS WELL-INTENTIONED.

I THINK THE PUBLIC SUPPORTS HIM AND HE IS OFF TO A GOOD START.

SUE: I GIVE HIM ABOUT A C. HE HAS BEEN IN THE CLOSET FOR SIX YEARS AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WITH NO RULES OR RESPONSIBILITIES AS A SMALL TOWN MAYOR.

HE IS ACCESSIBLE AND ADMIRABLE, ALWAYS GOOD QUALITIES FOR A GOVERNOR, BUT I THINK HE IS BEING PUSHED TOO FAR TO THE LEFT.

WHEN HE SIGNED THE CLIMATE BILL, WHICH I THINK IS AN OUTRAGEOUS TAKEOVER OF NONELECTED BUREAUCRATS WHO WILL RUN OUR ENERGY POLICY, THAT WAS A BAD MOVE.

IT HURTS SMALL BUSINESSES AND HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN KNOWN AS THE GENTLEMAN IN CHARGE OF HELPING SMALL BUSINESSES OUT.

I THINK THAT WILL CRUSH SMALL BUSINESSES COME ACROSS AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN RHODE ISLAND, AND THAT' ALSO SOMETHING, TO GO BACK TO WHAT IAN SAID ABOUT THE NEXT 10 YEARS, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW TO ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE.

40,000 MORE PEOPLE IS GREAT, BUT THOSE 40,000 MORE PEOPLE INCREASED OUR SOCIAL SERVICES BY 40,000 PEOPLE.

THAT DOESN'T HELP US GROW THE ECONOMY AND STIMULATE GROWTH IN RHODE ISLAND.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS I'M WORRIED ABOUT.

CERTAINLY, THERE ARE THREE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE THAT EXPRESSED INTEREST IN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, SO I THINK IT IS NOT GOING TO BE AN EASY PATH FOR HIM.

HE IS THE SITTING GOVERNOR SO HE HAS A BULLY PULPIT, BUT THE DEMO THREAT -- DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY WILL BE INTERESTING.

JIM: DID YOU THINK HE WOULD VETO THAT CLIMATE BILL?

SUE: I DID.

I THOUGHT IT WOULD DUST IT WAS OVERWRITTEN.

I THOUGHT HE WOULD COME OUT AND SAY, WE'VE GOT TO TWEAK THIS AND HAVE MORE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OVERSIGHT THAT COMES OUT OF THIS.

CURRENTLY, THE COLORADO GOVERNOR, WHO WAS A DEMOCRAT, IS NOW IN THE POSITION HE'S GOING TO VETO THE CLIMATE BILL.

THAT WAS ANNOUNCED ON TWITTER THIS MORNING.

JIM: WHAT DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THAT?

GOVERNOR MCKEE, I THOUGHT HE WAS AGAINST IT FOR OTHER REASONS AND THEN HE SAID HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT POTENTIAL LITIGATION DOWN THE LINE, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ANSWERED THAT QUESTION.

I AGREE WITH SUE.

I THOUGHT HE HAD CONCERNS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT SEEMED TO BE, YES, THEY'VE ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS.

IAN: AS FAR AS WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAID, IT SEEMS HIS MAIN CONCERN WAS THE POTENTIAL FOR LITIGATION.

WE HAD REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA AND FENTON FUND THE GRANDSON -- SHE TAKES AN OPPOSITE VIEW FROM OUR FRIEND, THE REPUBLICAN CHAIRWOMAN.

THE REPRESENTATIVE THINKS THE CLIMATE ACT WILL BE GOOD FOR RHODE ISLAND AND ITS ECONOMY.

THERE IS ROOM FOR DEBATE, EVEN AMONG REPUBLICANS.

THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS A REAL THREAT AND WE ARE VULNERABLE TO IT IN RHODE ISLAND, SO THIS WILL BE A BIG ISSUE GOING FORWARD.

THERE ARE UNELECTED STATE BUREAUCRATS WHO HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY OVER VARIOUS ASPECTS OF STATE POLICY ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, BUT WE WILL SEE HOW THIS SUGARS OFTEN THE YEARS AHEAD -- OFF IN THE YEARS AHEAD.

SUE: MOST REPUBLICANS DISAGREE WITH THE CLIMATE ACT, NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T BELIEVE IN A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT, BUT CERTAINLY, THERE HAS GOT TO BE SOME TALK ABOUT MAYBE NUCLEAR ENERGY.

IT IS CLEAN AND RELIABLE.

WIND TURBINES AND SOLAR ENERGY ARE NOT RELIABLE.

WE HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT THE CRYSTALS YET FROM "STAR TREK," SO WE WANT TO FIND DIFFERENT RESOURCES.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING ELECTRIC HEAT IN PEOPLE'S HOMES.

I LIVED WITH ELECTRIC HEAT IN THE SOUTH AND IT DOESN'T KEEP YOU WARM.

WE DON'T HAVE A RELIABLE ENERGY SOURCE THAT'S CHEAP AND RELIABLE YET.

WE ARE WORKING ON IT.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO DIVERSIFY ENERGY AND NOT JUST RELY ON WIND ENERGY, WINTER -- WIND TURBINES, AND DEFORESTATION IS A CONCERN TO MAKE THE SOLAR PANELS.

WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE WASTE PRODUCTS FROM THAT?

IT IS A TOPIC WE ARE INTERESTED IN THAT WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT, AND WE HAVE TO LOOK GLOBALLY AT WHAT CHINA IS DOING.

THEY ARE PUTTING UP A NEW COAL FIRE PLANTS, AT LEAST ONE A WEEK.

THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

LITTLE RHODE ISLAND CAN DO ITS JOB TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THE CLIMATE ACT THE WAY IT WAS LEGISLATED IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR RHODE ISLAND.

JIM: THAT MAY BE THE FIRST "STAR TREK" REFERENCE WE'VE EVER HAD.

I FULLY APPRECIATE THAT.

I DON'T WANT TO MOVE ON WITHOUT GIVING YOU THE CHANCE TO TALK.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

LOU: JUST TO SUE'S POINT, WE CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BREAK OUR BACK AND BUDGET TRYING TO MEET THE CLIMATE BILL REQUIREMENTS.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CHINA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD THEY ARE NOT JUMPING ON, WHY SHOULD WE GO TO THE WALL ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE WHEN IT IS ONLY GOING TO HURT US?

I SHARE SUE'S CONCERNS.

JIM: THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF PRESS, HEADLINES ABOUT THE MERGER OF LIFESPAN AND CARE NEW ENGLAND, FLYING UNDER THE RADAR, BUT NOT IAN'S RADAR IS ANOTHER ISSUE.

I WILL LET HIM SET THE TABLE.

GO TO THE PUBLIC RADIO WEBSITE TO READ HIS ARTICLE, BUT HE WILL GIVE US THE REARED -- THE READER'S DIGEST VERSION.

IAN: THIS MATTERS BECAUSE THE MEDICAL CENTER AND HOSPITAL ARE TWO OF THE LARGEST EMPLOYERS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE COMMUNITIES, BIG TAXPAYERS, TWO WEALTHY GUYS FROM CALIFORNIA WHO'VE TAKEN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DIVIDENDS OUT OF THE HOSPITAL CHAIN THAT THEY HAVE A MINORITY STAKE IN AND ARE TRYING TO GET THE MAJORITY STAKE.

THIS WOULD GIVE THEM TOTAL CONTROL.

THERE WAS A REPORT BY A RESPECTED ACCOUNTING FIRM SHOWING THAT THIS CHAIN HAS SERIOUS FINANCIAL CONCERNS.

AS OF SEPTEMBER, IT HAD A BILLION DOLLARS MORE IN LIABILITIES THAN IN ASSETS.

THE UNION SAID THIS RAISES QUESTIONS, WHETHER -- WHERE THEY WILL BE IN A FEW YEARS, THOSE ARE IMPORTANT HEALTH CARE INSTITUTIONS.

THE STORY DESERVES ATTENTION.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE REGULATORS?

AT WHAT POINT RE: IN THE BALLGAME WITH STATE REGULATORS?

-- ARE WE IN THE BALLGAME WITH STATE REGULATORS?

IAN: THE COUNSELED VOTED -- THE COUNCIL VOTED FOR A CHANGE BUT THESE GUYS COMPLETE OWNERSHIP.

THE DECISION OF WHETHER TO ACCEPT OR REJECT THAT GOES TO THE STATE HEALTH EXAM -- DIRECTOR.

I EXPECT SHE WILL IMPOSE A BUNCH OF CONDITIONS, WHILE IMPROVING THIS, THAT WOULD BE AIMED AT MAINTAINING OVERSIGHT OVER THE FINANCIAL QUESTIONS PRESENT IN THIS STORY.

LOU: DOES THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAVE ANY SAY?

IAN: YES, HE DOES.

AS PART OF STATE LAW CALLED THE HOSPITAL CONVERSION ACT, THE AGN HEALTH DEPARTMENT DO A REVIEW OF THIS.

THIS REVIEW HAS BEEN REPEATEDLY EXTENDED AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TOLD ME EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT HE IS LOOKING AT THIS SO CAREFULLY BECAUSE THE FINANCIAL QUESTIONS RAISED BY THIS.

HE WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT FATIMA AND ROGER WILLIAMS MEDICAL CENTER CONTINUE TO OPERATE IT.

JIM: I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO WEIGH IN.

SUE: GOOD JOB, IAN.

THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

IT'S ALWAYS IN THE DEVIL -- THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS WHEN IT COMES TO HOSPITAL MERGERS.

I THINK THEY BOTH DO A GREAT JOB IN SERVICING THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY ARE IN.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE HEALTHY AND CAN PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES.

THANK YOU, IAN, FOR UNCOVERING THAT.

JIM: YOU CAN SEE THAT ON THE PUBLIC RADIO WEBSITE POSTED JUST ON WEDNESDAY?

IAN: THAT'S RIGHT.

JIM: LOU, LET'S GO TO OUTRAGEOUS AND/OR KUDOS.

YOU GAVE US A SNEAK PREVIEW EARLIER.

ANYTHING ELSE IN YOUR BACK POCKET?

LOU: KUDOS BELONG WHERE THEY WERE EARLIER, TO THE JOURNAL AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, KATHY GREG IN PARTICULAR.

I OUTRAGE GOES TO FRESHMAN SENATOR MIGGY COLEMAN -- MEGAN COLEMAN WHO IS SPONSORING LEGISLATION THAT PRETTY MUCH SETS FORTH WHEN YOU RENEW YOUR LICENSE TO DRIVE, OR YOU GET A NEW LICENSE TO DRIVE, IF YOU DON'T AFFIRMATIVELY OPT OUT, THAT YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE AN ORGAN DONOR.

THIS IS THE RHODE ISLAND VERSION OF INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS.

[LAUGHTER] PEOPLE WHO ARE ILLITERATE OR DON'T KNOW BETTER OR ARE OBLIVIOUS, THEY COULD BE SACRIFICING THEIR ORGANS UPON THEIR DEATH.

IF YOU ASK ME, THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS.

I THINK IT HAS THE IT FACTOR.

IT IS MORBID, STUPID, AND EVEN THE ACLU AND LEE LIN DONOR SERVICES ARE AGAINST IT SO THAT SPEAKS -- LELAND DONOR SERVICES.

.

SUE: THIS EVENING, A GRADUATE WILL BE THE FIRST RHODE ISLANDERS SINCE 1939 THAT WILL BE DRAFTED IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE NFL DRAFT.

HE HAS THE MOST REMARKABLE STORY .

I HOPE PEOPLE IN RHODE ISLAND FOLLOW IT.

HIS MOTHER WAS FROM THE WAR-TORN COUNTRY OF LIBERIA, CAME TO AMERICA AND PROVIDENCE, RHODE ISLAND.

SHE WORKED THREE JOBS TO PUT THIS MAN THROUGH AND HE GRADUATED WITH A 3.97 GPA, AND GOT A SCHOLARSHIP TO THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN.

HE SAID, IF YOU PAID FOR ME TO GO TO THE HIGH SCHOOL, I WILL GET A SCHOLARSHIP TO COLLEGE THAT YOU WON'T HAVE TO PAY.

AND HE KEPT UP HIS WORD.

HIS WORK ETHIC, WHEN HE WAS AT SCHOOL, WAS REMARKABLE.

IT IS JUST SUCH A FEEL-GOOD STORY FOR RHODE ISLAND.

HE TALKED ABOUT HOW -- ENCOURAGED HIM WHEN HE WAS OLDER TO KEEP WORKING HARD.

HE WAS JUST A TRULY TERRIFIC SCHOLAR-ATHLETE AND I COULD NOT BE HAPPIER.

JIM: MICHIGAN CAME HUNTING, AND I'M NOT SAYING THERE IS A MUCH HIGHER PROFILE.

OUTRAGE FOR KUDOS?

IAN: I'M GOING TO TOSS A KUDOS TO MY FELLOW REPORTERS IN RHODE ISLAND.

DESPITE THE CHALLENGES FACING THE MEDIA IN OUR CURRENT MOMENT, THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD PUBLIC INTEREST REPORTING GOING ON BY VARIOUS REPORTERS AND NEWS ORGANIZATIONS REACHING FOR PROFIT TO NONPROFIT, BIG TO LITTLE.

IF THERE IS AN IMPORTANT STORY THAT NEEDS TO GET OUT, WE REPORTERS WILL GET AFTER IT.

PEOPLE APPRECIATE US REPORTERS IN RHODE ISLAND.

WE ARE TRYING TO DO THE JOB, SO KUDOS TO MY COLLEAGUES.

JIM: I WOULD SECOND THAT, DEFINITELY.

THANK YOU, FOLKS, THAT IS ALL THE TIME, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

THAT IS NOT IT.

WE HAVE SOME NATIONAL ISSUES TO TALK ABOUT, THE PRESIDENT'S FIRST 100 DAYS.

IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION GO TO RIPBS .ORG/LIVELY WHERE WE HAVE A BONUS SEGMENT.

SUNDAY AT NOON ON AIR, YOU CAN ALWAYS CATCH US ONLINE.

WE PUT ALL OF THE SHOWS UP ON TWITTER, FACEBOOK, AND PODCAST.

IF YOU ARE WRITING IN THE CAR -- WRITING IN THE CAR, -- RIDING IN THE CAR, TAKE US ALONG.

NEXT WEEK, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

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