>> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

A WIDE-RANGING BILL ON CLIMATE CONTROL PASSES THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

WE WILL TELL YOU WHAT THOSE FOR AND AGAINST ARE SAYING ABOUT IT.

WITH COVID VACCINATIONS SOON BECOMING UNIVERSAL AVAILABLE, WILL THEY BECOME A MANDATORY FOR SCHOOL OR TRAVEL?

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT FOR IMPORTANT POLITICAL ISSUES.

I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM FOR RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US WITH THE ANALYSIS -- LEE ANN SENNICK, A NATIONAL COMMITTEE WOMAN FROM THE RHODE ISLAND REPUBLICAN PARTY TURNED BILLY HUNT, AND "BOSTON GLOBE" REPORTER ED FITZPATRICK.

JIM: I AM JIM HUMMEL.

IT IS GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

THE ACT ON CLIMATE WILL HELP SAVE RHODE ISLAND FROM THE INCREASING THREATS OF CLIMATE CONTROL OR IMPOSE AN UNDUE FINANCIAL BURDEN THAT WILL TAKE RHODE ISLAND AND ITS RESIDENTS WRITE DOWN THE FINANCIAL TUBES -- OR IT WOULD SEEM FROM THE DISCUSSION AT THE STATEHOUSE BEFORE ULTIMATELY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY PASSED THE LEGISLATION GOVERNOR MCKEE IS EXPECTED TO SIGN.

IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE THERE IS VERY LITTLE MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE OPPONENTS AND THE PROPONENTS.

ED: IT HAS BEEN QUITE A DEBATE.

THIS IS THE TOP PRIORITY FOR ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS IN THE STATE.

IT MET A LOT OF OPPOSITION FROM CHAMBERS OF COMMON, BUSINESS GROUPS.

THERE WAS SOME DRAMA WHETHER GOVERNOR MCKEE WOULD SIGN IT.

HE RAISED CONCERN ABOUT WHO WOULD BE ABLE TO ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THE NEW LAW.

HE SAID ONLY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT.

THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AND THE WAY THE BILL WAS WRITTEN WOULD ALLOW CITIZENS, NONPROFITS, CORPORATIONS TO SUE.

THE THING THAT TILTED THE BALANCE TOWARD IT WAS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SENT A LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR SAYING -- ADDRESSING CONCERNS, YOU HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS LIKE THE CLEAN AIR ACT, THE CLEAN WATER ACT BUT ALLOWED CITIZEN LAWSUITS, HE SUPPORTED THE LEGISLATION, URGED ITS PASSAGE.

NOW, THE GOVERNOR IS SET TO SIGN IT.

IT PASSED THE HOUSE AND SENATE OVERWHELMINGLY.

IT WILL HAPPEN.

IT WILL BE THE LAW OF THE LAND.

JIM: I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS AN INDICATION, -- THE ONLY TIME I REMEMBER SOMETHING PASSING THIS EARLY IN THE SESSION WAS THE LEGISLATION THEY GOT THROUGH IN FEBRUARY MANY YEARS AGO.

USUALLY, THEY GO BACK AND FORTH WAS THAT A MESSAGE THIS WAS A PRIORITY, WE ARE DOING IT NOW?

ED: IT IS AMAZING HOW ONE YEAR CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

ONE YEAR AGO, WE HAD THE EVENT AT THE "BOSTON GLOBE" HEADQUARTERS.

THE THEN-SPEAKER SAID THERE IS NOTHING RHODE ISLAND CAN DO -- AFFECT CLIMATE CHANGE IN A WAY THAT IS REAL OR IMPACTFUL.

THE NEW SPEAKER SAID WE CANNOT WAIT, WE HAVE TO TAKE ACTION.

JIM: LEE ANN WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

LEE ANN: I WONDER WHY WE NEED THIS LEGISLATION.

WHAT PURPOSE WILL IT SERVE?

A GOVERNMENT MANDATE THAT WILL BE AN EXPENSE AND A BURDEN ON TAXPAYERS, HOMEOWNERS AND BUSINESS PEOPLE.

WHATEVER GOING TO GAIN?

CAN IT BE DONE WITHOUT THE LAW?

CONCERNS ABOUT LITIGATION?

THIS WILL CREATE THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO LITIGATE.

PEOPLE CAN TURN AROUND AND SUE THE STATE.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KNOW IF PEOPLE CAN SUE THE STATE FOR UNDUE EXPENSES THAT WILL BE PUSHED ONTO HOMEOWNERS, PROPERTY OWNERS, BUSINESS OWNERS AS THEY HAVE TO UPDATE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE STATE.

IT IS A MANDATE WE DO NOT NEED.

THE PREMISE BEHIND IT IS TO AFFECT CLIMATE CHANGE IN RHODE ISLAND.

IT WILL HAVE SUCH A MINUSCULE EFFECT ON A GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE SCALE THAT WHY ARE REPORTING THIS BURDEN ON PEOPLE?

IT IS A GRAB FOR THE FEDERAL MONEY UP FOR GRABS.

THAT IS STILL TAXPAYER MONEY.

WE ARE STILL PULLING OUT OF THE SAME POT -- IT IS THE TAXPAYER ON THE HOOK FOR THIS.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING DE BT ONTO FUTURE GENERATIONS.

I DO NOT THINK THE ADVANTAGES OF IT.

I DON'T SEE WHY WE CAN HAVE GOALS TO REDUCE EMISSIONS WITHOUT HAVING IT AS THE LAW.

WHAT DOES MAKING THAT A LAW PROVIDE FOR BUSINESSES TO ATTRACT THEM TO DO BUSINESSES WITH RHODE ISLAND?

JIM: BILLY?

BILLY: THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF THE GOVERNMENT PICKING WINNERS AND LOSERS.

WORKING FROM HOME, I HAVE SEEN MANY MORE SOLAR SALESPEOPLE KNOCKING AT MY DOOR.

THIS IS THE INCENTIVE WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING OUT AND DYING FOR PEOPLE TO SUBSIDIZE PUTTING SOLAR ON THEIR HOMES AND ENTICING PEOPLE TO INVEST IN RENEWABLE ENERGY.

I AM AFRAID TO SEE WHAT IT WILL BE IN A FEW YEARS, WHEN THEY START APPLYING TAXES AND THE BUSINESS OWNERS AND HOMEOWNERS AND PROPERTY OWNERS THAT ARE ENTICING THEM, OR FORCING THEM TO PAY TAXES WHEN WE ARE NOT MEETING THE GOALS SET IN PLACE BY THIS COMMITTEE OF PEOPLE WHO WERE UNELECTED.

THE SAME LEGISLATIVE PUSHING AFFORDABLE HOUSING DON'T SEEM TO REALIZE THAT WHEN YOU INCREASE THE COST OF HOUSING, IT WILL MAKE IT BY REQUIRING THESE ENERGY BILLS AND UPGRADES, IT WILL MAKE HOUSING UNAFFORDABLE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN MOST NEED OF LOWER RENTS AND HOUSING COSTS.

IT IS A REGRESSIVE TAX.

JIM: I WONDER FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, WE HAVE ALL BEEN AROUND RHODE ISLAND GOVERNMENT LONG ENOUGH, NET ZERO EMISSIONS BY 2050, WE CAN BARELY GET THROUGH ONE BUDGET CYCLE WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT PLUGGING THE HOLE .

WHO REALLY WILL BE LOOKING AT THIS FOUR YEARS, EIGHT YEARS, 10 YEARS AND STATE -- WE HAVE 20 YEARS LEFT, WE NEED TO BE DOING THIS.

RHODE ISLAND HAS NOT BEEN GOOD AT LOOKING DOWN THE LINE.

THAT IS A CRISTOBAL QUESTION.

IT IS NICE TO HAVE THIS -- THAT IS A CRYSTAL BALL QUESTION.

>> IT TENDS TO GO YEAR-TO-YEAR WITH THE BUDGET AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE STEPS ALONG THE WAY.

IT IS NOT JUST THE END GOAL OF NET ZERO BY 2050.

THERE ARE PLANS IN 2030, 2040.

THE PEOPLE ON THE COMMISSION WILL BE THE STATE AGENCIES, ALL THE DIFFERENT STATE AGENCIES.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS WERE SUPPORTED COME FROM AND CAN MAKE AN IMPACT IS THAT PPL JUST BOUGHT AN ELECTRIC COMPANY.

IT STOOD OUT IN THE STATEMENT, WE BELIEVE OUR EXPERIENCE IN AUTOMATING NETWORKS CAN HELP RHODE ISLAND ACHIEVE THIS GOAL OF 100% RENEWABLE ENERGY.

THEY SEE IT AS ADDING SOME MORE SOLAR AND WIND POWER TO THE GRID, TO THE NETWORK AND MOVING TO MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY SOURCES IN THE ECONOMY.

>> THERE ARE ALREADY INVESTMENTS IN THE GRID.

IS IT ABLE TO SUSTAIN THIS DEMAND IF WE START CHANGING EVERYTHING OVER TO ELECTRIC HEATING.

IS THAT SOMETHING THE GRID CAN MANAGE?

LEE ANN: LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN TEXAS.

WE HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT CLIMATE THAN TEXAS DOES.

WE TEND TO LOSE ELECTRICITY A LOT MORE FREQUENTLY DURING STORMS AND WE HAVE MUCH COLDER WINTERS TO DEAL WITH.

JIM: ALTHOUGH THERE ARE BENCHMARKS, THIS IS A STATEMENT RIGHT NOW AND THE DETAILS WILL WORK OUT.

PEOPLE HAVE TIME TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT BILLY AND LEE ANN ARE ASKING.

>> IT DOES NOT REQUIRE A BUSINESS OR HOMEOWNER TO DO SOME THING SPECIFIC.

WE WANT TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE PLAN WILL BE.

JIM: COVID VACCINES.

THEY ARE GETTING A LOT BETTER.

BEFORE WE KNOW IT, THEY WILL BE AVAILABLE IN 10 DAYS OF WATCHING DESPERATE WITH THAT BRINGS THE QUESTION OF THE NEXT PHASE -- WILL THERE ULTIMATELY BE A MANDATE TO GET ON A PLANE OR GO TO A SCHOOL?

WE HAVE HEARD THAT ROGER WILLIAMS -- LEE ANN, LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU.

A DEMOCRATIC STATE LEGISLATOR TALKED ABOUT MAKING IT A PROTECTED CLASS, THERE IS LEGISLATION PENDING NOW, THERE IS CONCERN THAT PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT GETTING THE VACCINE.

IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE.

WILL THEY FACE CONSEQUENCES DOWN THE LINE?

IT IS A FASCINATING ARGUMENT.

LEE ANN: LOOKING AT PROTECTIONS FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT TO GET THE VACCINE.

I THINK IT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE.

I THINK IT IS A CHOICE THAT SHOULD BE MADE WITH MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.

EVERYONE SHOULD INDIVIDUALLY LOOK AT THE RISKS THEY HAVE, WHAT THEIR CHANCES ARE OF CONTRACTING BECOMING SERIOUSLY ILL AND WEIGH THAT WITH THE RISK OF THE VACCINE.

THE IDEA OF A VACCINE PASSPORT, I TOTALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH.

I DO NOT THINK THAT WILL BE NECESSARY.

IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT VACCINATION MOVING US BACK TO A SENSE OF NORMALCY IF WE HAVE 70% TO 80% OF PEOPLE VACCINATED, WHY DO WE NEED A PASSPORT TO PROVE THAT?

IF PEOPLE ARE NOT ABLE TO PASS IT ON TO OTHER PEOPLE, WE DETERMINED WE HAVE HERD IMMUNITY, WHAT IS THE REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER TO SHOW THAT IS THE CASE?

WE TALK A LOT ABOUT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THE GOVERNMENT PUTS IN, WHAT IS TO SAY THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT THAN SAKE THESE PAST -- NOT THEN FAKE THESE PASSPORTS?

THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER QUESTIONS THAT WILL COME ALONG WITH THAT AND IT IS AN INVASION OF OUR PRIVACY.

THIS IS A MEDICAL THING, IT IS PROTECTED UNDER HIPAA.

WHETHER YOU WANT TO TALK WHAT THAT OR NOT IS UP TO YOU.

I GOT MY FIRST SHOT, I AM OK LETTING PEOPLE KNOW I AM GETTING A VACCINE.

IF THE GOAL OF ACCIDENT EVERYONE WAS TO PREVENT COVID TO GET US OUT OF THIS LOCKDOWN PHASE AND GET US TOWARD A SENSE OF NORMALCY, HAVING A PASSPORT TO PROVE THAT IS NOT NORMAL.

>> AS THE NUMBERS GO DOWN, HOSPITALIZATIONS AVE GONE DOWN, I THINK A LOT OF THIS IS LOOKING AT A 1.5% INFECTION RATE, IT WILL RATCHET DOWN BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL REALIZE THE VACCINE IS DOING ITS JOB, DO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE NEED TO PROVE THAT?

BILLY: THERE IS A LOT OF VIRTUE SIGNALING GOING ON.

IT IS A MOOT POINT.

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH VACCINE OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT IT.

WHY ARE WE CONCERNED ABOUT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WANT IT?

LEE ANN BROUGHT UP UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF FORGERIES AND A BLACK MARKET FOR FAKE RECORDS.

THAT DOES NOT DO ANYONE ANY GOOD BECAUSE THAT PREVENTS PEOPLE FROM KNOWING WHO ACTUALLY HAS THE VACCINE AND IS AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE WHEN GOVERNMENT TRIES TO GET INVOLVED IN SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

THE OTHER TWO CONCERNS I HAVE FOR VACCINE PASSPORTS ARE PRIVACY.

EVERYONE IS WORKING FROM HOME.

THE GOVERNMENT, BUSINESSES ARE GETTING HACKED.

ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS CONSOLIDATED THAT IS EASILY BREACHED AND TAKEN BY A FOREIGN ENTITY, IS THAT SOMETHING COME UP WITH THE TRACK RECORD WE HAVE IN THE STATE COME UP ALL THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE HAD, UNEMPLOYMENT, FRAUD, IS THAT SOMETHING WE REALLY WANT TO SECEDE TO THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE THEM TAKE CONTROL OF IMPORTANT MEDICAL INFORMATION?

THE LAST PIECE IS, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE FUTURE?

WHAT WILL THIS INFORMATION BE USED FOR?

AFTER 9/11, THERE WAS MASS DATA COLLECTION WITH THE WIRE TAPS.

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WILL BE USED IN THE FUTURE FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE?

WHERE THEY WILL BE TRACKING OUR MEDICAL RECORDS TO TRY TO CUT COSTS?

THERE ARE A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS AND QUESTIONS AND SOMETHING THAT GOES AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION AND WHAT WE STAND FOR AS AMERICAN PEOPLE.

JIM: ED, YOU WORKED AT ROGER WILLIAMS FOR A WHILE.

I KNOW YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR THEM.

THEY ARE A PRIVATE SCHOOL, THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT, BROWN SAID THE SAME THING -- WE ARE NOT DENYING YOU EDUCATION.

IT IS INTERESTING THEY GOT OUT OF THE BLOCKS FIRST.

I AM WONDERING IF YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PUBLIC SCHOOL AND A PRIVATE SCHOOL AND WHERE THIS WILL GO DOWN THE LINE IN TERMS OF EDUCATION.

ED: THE EUROPEAN UNION HAS THIS IDEA OF A VACCINE PASSPORT.

THAT IS NOT BEING PUSHED FORWARD IN AMERICA.

WE HAVE DR. FAUCI SINK I DOUBT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD BE THE MAIN MOVER ON A PASSPORT CONCEPT.

IT WILL BE A DECISION WITH PRIVATE ENTITIES.

DR. FAUCI SAID I AM NOT SAYING THEY SHOULD OR THEY WOULD, BUT I AM SEEING HOW YOU COULD FORESEE HOW AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY COULD SAY WE CAN'T BE DEALING WITH YOU UNLESS WE KNOW YOU ARE VACCINATED.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OUR KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL.

ONE OF MY SONS WILL BE GOING TO COLLEGE NEXT YEAR.

SOME OF THE SCHOOLS HE IS LOOKING AT ARE REQUIRING VACCINES.

I DO NOT SEE IT AS A MATTER OF IDEOLOGY OR PARTISANSHIP, IT IS A MATTER OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND I AM RELIEVED HE CAN GO TO HIS FRESHMAN YEAR AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.

JIM: PRACTICALITY, TOO.

MY ALMA MATER WAS THERE 10 DAYS, EVERYONE MOVED IN AND THEN THEY HAD TO GO HOME BECAUSE OF THE OUTBREAKS.

IT IS APPARENT IF IT GIVES YOU SOME COMFORT, IF YOU GET MOST OF THOSE KIDS VACCINATED -- WE KNOW KIDS WILL NOT ALWAYS FOLLOW GUIDELINES, BUT THE VACCINE WOULD HELP.

ED: MY NIECE WENT TO COLLEGE, IT WAS HER FRESHMAN YEAR AND SHE ENDED UP BOUNCING BACK AND FORTH AND EVENTUALLY SPENDING THE ENTIRE SPRING SEMESTER AT HOME LEARNING REMOTELY.

IT WILL GIVE A LOT OF PEOPLE PEACE OF MIND.

JIM: A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKING HOW LONG THE STATE OF EMERGENCY WILL LAST.

SOME PEOPLE SAY IT IS FOR FEDERAL MONEY, OTHER CRITICS SAY IT IS BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR WAS TO CONTROL US.

GOVERNOR MCKEE, A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE A 180 DEGREE TURN.

BILLY, YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS OFF-CAMERA, ABOUT THE STATE OF EMERGENCY.

THE LARGER ISSUE ABOUT HOW GOVERNMENT IS DOING ITS BUSINESS AND SOMETIMES THE RESIDENTS ARE GETTING LEFT BEHIND ON THESE ZOOM CALLS WHERE YOU HAVE 200 PEOPLE.

HOW WILL YOU HAVE YOUR VOICE HEARD?

BILLY: I WROTE AN OP-ED CALLING FOR US TO GET OUR VOICE BACK AS SUPPOSED TO BE CHECKS AND ARE BALANCES FOR PEOPLE AT THE STATEHOUSE TO PROVIDE A CHECK FOR THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

THE STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK WAS WHEN SHE ANNOUNCED SHE WAS GETTING PROMOTED TO CONGRESS SECRETARY AND THEN ABANDONED SHIP AND DID NOT DO ANYTHING REGARD TO THE WEEKLY MEETINGS AND HANDED EVERYTHING OFF TO NICOLE ALEXANDER-SCOTT.

AT THAT POINT, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHOULD HAVE STEPPED IN AND WRANGLED POWER BACK FROM THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

IT SERVES A FUNCTION, POLITICAL COVER FOR THEM, THIS ONGOING STATE OF EMERGENCY AND PROVIDE SOME COVER THAT THEY CAN PASS THIS PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION WITHOUT A LOT OF INPUT OR FEEDBACK FROM THE PEOPLE.

YOU ARE GETTING LIMITED PHONE TESTIMONY, ONE MINUTE LONG, YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT WRITTEN TESTIMONY , WHO KNOWS IF IT IS GETTING READ.

REALISTICALLY, THIS IS THE TYPE OF THING -- WE TALKED ABOUT THE CLIMATE BILL EARLY ON, WHERE THE GOVERNMENT IS SECEDING THIS POWER TO THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, JUST LIKE THEY WILL SECEDE THE POWER OF THIS CLIMATE BILL TO THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND WE NEED THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO COME BACK IN SERVICE, OPEN UP AND TAKE POWER BACK.

WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED LAST SUMMER IF WE HAD A HURRICANE, OR THIS WINTER, WE HAD A BLIZZARD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

WE WOULD BE ON DOUBLE SECRET EMERGENCY ORDER BY THE GOVERNOR?

IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON LONG ENOUGH AND THERE IS A LOT OF APATHY AMONG THE PEOPLE OF RHODE ISLAND.

JIM: THE LEGISLATURE WAS LARGELY MIA EXCEPT FOR REPUBLICANS.

THE GOP CAUCUS WAS ACTIVE.

I WONDER ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS AND WITH THE STATE OF EMERGENCY MIGHT DISAPPEAR.

LEE ANN: GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONING IS KIND OF AN OXYMORON AT THIS POINT.

[LAUGHTER] LEE ANN: OUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT FUNCTIONING.

IT IS A REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT AND THE REPRESENTATIVES WE HAVE ELECTED TO REPRESENT US HAVE CEDED THEIR RESPONSIBILITY.

A STATE OF EMERGENCY PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE OF CERTAIN METHODS.

A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE BEING INFECTED.

THE HOSPITALIZATION RATE HAS GONE DOWN, THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE DYING FROM THE COVID VIRUS HAS DECREASED, THOSE METRICS NEED TO BE LOOKED AT AND WE TO LOOK AT IT THE SAME WAY AS WE CLOSE THINGS DOWN, WE NEED TO START OPENING UP.

THE GOVERNMENT IS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT SHOULD START OPEN.

IF THERE WAS AN ESSENTIAL THING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN OUR STATE, THE GOVERNMENT IS ONE OF THOSE BODIES THAT SHOULD BE OPENING.

IF YOU HAVE GROCERY WORKERS THAT CAN CASH PEOPLE OUT AND PUT THEMSELVES AT RISK OF CONTRACTING THE VIRUS, WHY CAN'T OUR GOVERNMENT WORKERS MEET IN PERSON?

YOU CAN STILL STAY SIX FEET AWAY, KEEP A MASK ON AND HAVE THE SAME PROCEDURES IN PLACE THAT SHOULD BE THERE SO PEOPLE'S VOICES ARE BEING HEARD.

JIM: THEY DID SPEND $166,000 ON THE PLEXIGLAS THAT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO USE.

ED, GIVE ME THE REPORTER'S ASPECT OF COVERING GOVERNMENT.

DOES IT HELP YOU, HINDER YOU HAVING TO COVER THINGS ON ZOOM?

I DO NOT GET THE SENSE BECAUSE I AM NOT IN THE TRENCHES LIKE YOU.

ED: THEY ARE GETTING TOGETHER.

THEY ARE MEETING IN PERSON, BUT IT DOES PRESENT SOME DIFFICULTIES COVERING IT.

TALKING TO SOMEONE IN THE HALLWAY AND HAVING FACE-TO-FACE CONVERSATIONS HAS A LOT OF VALUE.

IT IS EFFICIENT IN A WAY TO COVER IT ON ZOOM AND JUST CRANK IT OUT RIGHT THERE.

ONE INTERESTING PART -- ONE INTERESTING ASPECT OF WHERE WE GO FROM HERE IS THE HOUSE MINORITY LEADER HAD A BILL IN THAT WOULD REQUIRE LIVE STREAMING FOR ANY OPEN MEETING OF MUNICIPAL OR STATE PUBLIC BODIES GOING FORWARD.

HIS IDEA WAS, WE HAVE SEEN THE VALUE OF THIS, PEOPLE ARE TUNING IN AT HOME.

HE SAYS IT IS CHEAP, EVERYONE IS DOING IT AND LOVES IT, HE THINKS EVERY PUBLIC BODY WHO GOES BACK TO THE WAIT WAS BEFORE WILL HAVE SOME BACKLASH.

I THINK COMMON CAUSE HAS RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT DOING THAT.

HE SEES THE VALUE, BUT SAYS IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT, YOU NEED TO PUT SOME GUARDRAILS ON.

HOW'D YOU GET THE DOCUMENTS EVERYONE IS GETTING AT A PUBLIC MEETING?

I CAN SEE SOME OF THE THINGS WE HAVE ADOPTED IN THE PANDEMIC THAT WE NEED TO KEEP, BUT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET BACK SOME OF THE VALUE OF THAT FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTION.

JIM: IT SOUNDS GOOD IN THEORY BUT A LOT OF EXECUTION, THE DOCUMENTS, THE INTERACTION, BUT I AGREE THAT TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS US TO DO IT.

I CANNOT WAIT TO GET INTO THE STUDIO LIVE, BUT WE ARE GLAD TO BE ABLE TO DO IT ON ZOOM FOR NOW.

I HAVE A COUPLE OTHER THINGS TO GET TO.

LET'S DO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

BILLY: MY OUTRAGE IS ABOUT THE BARRINGTON BRIDGES THAT CONNECT BARRINGTON AND WARREN.% WE JUST GOT IN THE PAPER, A DIRECTOR ANNOUNCED -- TO BE REPLACED HAVE NOT GOING TO BE REPLACED, THEY WILL BE PUSHED BACK.

THE BRIDGES WERE COMPLETED IN 2009, THREE YEARS LATER, $10 MILLION OVER BUDGET.

THEY CLOSED THE BRIDGES TO FISHING, WHICH IS A BIG DEAL IN WARREN.

THE THING THAT IS THE MOST SHOCKING ABOUT EVERYTHING IS THERE IS A $25 MILLION PRICE TAG ASSOCIATED WITH REPLACING TWO OLD RAILROAD BRIDGES AND MAKING THEM INTO BIKE PATH BRIDGES, THAT SEEMS OUTRAGEOUS.

WE NEED TO GET THE BIKE PATH BRIDGES BACKED UP AND RUNNING.

JIM: WITH A PERSONAL ASIDE, I SENT THE DIRECTOR AND EMAIL EVERY WEEK AND HE HAS BEEN DEFENSIVE.

I UNDERSTAND HE HAS ENTIRE THING TO RUN, BUT HE DOES NOT LIVE IN THE EAST BAY AND UNDERSTAND HOW POPULAR IT IS.

WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS TO BUILD IT WITH THE ORIGINAL BRIDGES THAT TOOK 14 YEARS TO BUILD.

THAT IS NICE WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE -- PUN FULLY INTENDED.

BILLY: THOSE BRIDGES ARE STRUCTURALLY INEFFICIENT.

JIM: THAT IS ANOTHER ISSUE.

ED: WE TAKE PRESS FREEDOM FOR GRANTED.

TRYING TO WRITE A STORY ABOUT A WORN PUBLIC OFFICIAL AND YOU MIGHT GET -- A WARREN PUBLIC OFFICIAL AND YOU MIGHT GET AN ANGRY MESSAGE.

IN MYANMAR, THE GENERALS SEIZED POWER AND THEY SAID GENERALS CANNOT USE THE WORD COUP, REGIME AND COVERING WHAT IS GOING ON.

56 JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED, THREE HAVE BEEN SHOT.

IT IS A REMINDER THAT WE HAVE TO VALUE THE PRESS FREEDOMS WE HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

LEE ANN: I HAVE AN OUTRAGE.

THE CRISIS AT THE BORDER.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, THIS IS A CRISIS.

THE BIDEN AT MINISTRATION CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT IS IN A NAME, WE HAVE TRAGEDIES OF SHAKESPEAREAN MAGNITUDE AT THE BORDER.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MANDATES AND THE GOVERNMENT MANDATING EVERY INDIVIDUAL THING WE DO, WHAT CAR WE DRIVE, HOW WE HEAT OUR HOME, WHETHER WE HAVE A VACCINE, AND WE HAVE CHAOS AT THE BORDER.

PEOPLE COMING THROUGH THE BORDER, UNACCOMPANIED MINORS, CHILDREN LITERALLY BEING THROWN OVER THE WALL AND HOPING SOMEONE WILL CATCH THEM.

TODAY, THEY TALKED ABOUT RELEASING INFORMATION ABOUT A FEDERAL FACILITY IN TEXAS, THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL ABUSE.

THERE ARE 1300 UNSUPERVISED TEENS IN THE FACILITY AND THEY ARE SENDING THE TEXAS RANGERS IN THERE.

THE AGENCIES OVERSEEING THIS ARE OVERWHELMED.

WHILE THIS IS HAPPENING AND WE ARE TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE UNACCOMPANIED MINORS COMING IN BECAUSE OF THES BAD POLICY SET BY THE BY DEMONSTRATION, THERE ARE DRUG CARTELS, GANGS, PEOPLE ARE BEING ABUSED BECAUSE OF A BAD POLICY.

THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO BE HAPPENING.

WE HAD THIS UNDER CONTROL.

BECAUSE OF THE POLICY TRYING TO BRING PEOPLE IN, BIDEN'S INCOME NOW, DO NOT COME NOW, THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING.

THEY HAVE HAD WEEKS TO WORK ON THIS.

WE HAVE SEEN NOTHING OUT OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.

THEY HAVE NOT VISITED THE BORDER TO SEE THE CRISIS DEVELOPING.

JIM: WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

LET'S CONTINUE THAT.

BILLY, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

THE BIDEN ABATIS RATION SENT SOME OF THIS WAS THE ANNUAL SPRING SURGE THAT GOES ON BUT IT IS A LOT OF WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FACED.

BILLY: FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS AN ISSUE OF -- ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A SOCIAL PROGRAM ISSUE?

THE LIBERTARIAN PERSPECTIVE IS WE NEED TO STOP WITH SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT ARE ENTICING THESE PEOPLE TO COME TO AMERICA IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THE HUMANITARIAN ASPECT AND THE OPPORTUNITY ASPECT, THE LIBERTARIAN ASPECT IS WE SHOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME HERE TO PURSUE THE AMERICAN DREAM AND BE FUNCTIONING MEMBERS OF THE SOCIETY AND ADDING TO THAT.

IT MAKES ME WONDER EVERY TIME THE ADMINISTRATION CHANGES AND GOES FROM BEING KIDS IN CAGES WITH TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO NOW BEING HOLDING FACILITIES AND NOT A BIG DEAL WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, IT MAKES YOU WONDER IF THEY ARE LOOKING TO SOLVE THE ISSUE OR EXPLIT THE ISSUE.

JIM: ED, YOU GET THE LAST MINUTE.

ED: ONE STORY I DID WAS ABOUT HAITIAN-AMERICAN LEADERS IN RHODE ISLAND CALLING FOR THE BIDEN AT MINISTRATION TO STOP DEPORTING UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE FROM HAITI.

SOME ARE COMING ACROSS THE BORDER IN MEXICO.

RIGHT NOW, IF YOU SEND SOMEONE BACK TO HAITI, IT IS A VOLATILE POLITICAL SITUATION, A LOT OF KIDNAPPINGS, POLITICAL VIOLENCE, GANGS LOOSELY TIED TO THE GOVERNMENT.

A CITY COUNCILWOMAN, -- SAYING THE BIDEN DEMONSTRATION SHOULD STOP USING THE TITLE 42 POLICY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ENACTED TO SAY WE WILL DEPORT YOU BEFORE YOU CAN CLAIM ASYLUM WITHOUT ANY RECOURSE.

JIM: I AM SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF.

IT IS ALWAYS A QUICK 30 MINUTES.

ED FITZPATRICK, LEE ANN SENNICK, BILLY HUNT.

IF YOU DO NOT SEE US FRIDAY AT 7:00 OR SUNDAY AT NOON, YOU CAN CATCH US ON TWITTER.

WE POST ALL OF OUR BROADCASTS ONLINE.

WE ARE GROWING IN PODCAST POPULARITY.

COME BACK, YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT WEEK.

WE WILL HAVE YOU COVERED.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENERALLY UNDERWRITTEN RIGHT --