>> THIS WEEK, THE DAY MANY OF US HAVE WAITED FOR BUT NOT EVERYBODY IS EMBRACING THE EASING OF COVID RESTRICTIONS.

AND CONTROVERSY SURROUNDS A PROFIT AND WILL SYSTEM AGAIN.

WE HAVE THE LATEST.

>> THE LIFE EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS THE LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS ON IMPORTANT POLITICAL ISSUES.

I'M DRAWN AND I'M PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JOINING US ON THE PANEL, WENDY, THE CHAIR OF BROWN UNIVERSITY'S CLINICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT.

JIM, THE PRESIDENT OF THE PROVIDENCE BRANCH OF THE NAACP, AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DAN RILEY.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU, TAPING FROM OUR STUDIOS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 14 MONTHS.

OUR RETURN IS WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IN RHODE ISLAND AND NATIONALLY.

AN EASING OF RESTRICTIONS THAT INCLUDES THE GATHERING SIZE, GOING BACK TO THE OFFICE, AND MASK WEARING.

THE GOVERNOR SPOKE ABOUT IT AT HIS WEEKLY BRIEFING.

>> I THINK TOMORROW IS THE DAY THAT MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THE STATE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR.

SINCE THE PANDEMIC BEGAN.

TOMORROW, RHODE ISLAND, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS, WILL BE REOPENED .

THE PLEXIGLAS IS COMING DOWN.

AND MOST ESTABLISHMENT WILL BE AT FULL CAPACITY.

CASINOS WILL BE OPEN, AS WE KNEW THEM.

RESTAURANTS WILL BE BUSTLING, NIGHTCLUBS WILL START TO BE MEETING PLACES ONCE AGAIN.

IT'S ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE REACHED A ONE MILLION SHOTS, AND WE CONTINUE TO VACCINATE ALL AGE GROUPS, INCLUDING THE 12 TO 15-YEAR-OLD GROUPS AND WE ARE COMFORTABLE IN MAKING THE STEPS.

JUST NOW WE HAVE 70.1% OF RHODE ISLANDERS 18 AND OLDER WITH AT LEAST ONE VACCINE.

JUST AS IT WAS GETTING USED TO WEARING THE MASKS OVER THE LAST YEAR, WITH PEOPLE BEING MORE COMFORTABLE THAN OTHERS, IT'S GOING TO BE THE SAME THING FOR US.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF WE DID IT TODAY, THREE WEEKS FROM NOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE A TRANSITION.

SO LET'S RESPECT PEOPLE DURING THAT TRANSITION.

>> ANOTHER MILESTONE WE HAD ON THURSDAY WAS OUR LAST MEETING FOR REPORTERS, WE WERE THERE FOR SOCIAL DISTANCING AND WE WILL BE BACK ATTHE STATEHOUSE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU, WENDY.

THERE'S THIS TRANSITION EVEN WITH PEOPLE BEING FULLY VACCINATED.

I THINK IT WILL TAKE A BIT OF GETTING USED TWO WEARING MASKS.

WENDY: I THINK EVERYONE IN RHODE ISLAND WORKED HARD.

WE HAD SOME GOOD MOMENTS AND SOME SCARY MOMENTS.

I THINK PEOPLE WERE GENERALLY RESPECTFUL.

WE DO THAT IN REVERSE.

WE MAINTAIN THAT LEVEL WITH PATIENT INTOLERANCE.

YOU GO INTO A BUSINESS OR STORE, SOME PEOPLE IN THE RESTAURANT MAY HAVE A RESTAURANT -- IN THE RESTAURANT MAY HAVE A MASK ON.

YOU GET TO THAT COMFORT LEVEL AND IT MIGHT TAKE A LONG TIME.

>> THIS IS A ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME EXPERIENCE.

I THINK IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS THIS WILL BE INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THE AMBIGUITY IN TERMS OF WHERE YOU ARE.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE ALL GOT ALONG PRETTY WELL.

I THINK PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO WEAR THE MASK, AND THERE SHOULD NOT BE MASK SHAMING.

SOME PEOPLE WILL BE WONDERING DO I HAVE TO HAVE A CARD TO SHOW THAT I'M FULLY DOSED AND GOING TO THIS PLACE.

I AM MORE OPTIMISTIC AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A MAJOR PROBLEM.

>> I THINK AT THIS POINT, THE FASTER WE GET TO A POINT WHERE BUSINESSES DON'T HAVE MANDATES OF ANY KIND ON THEM AND PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO FREELY PUT A MASK ON OR NOT, IS WHERE MOST PEOPLE WANT TO BE.

WE DO KNOW WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION HAVING AT LEAST ONE DOSE OF THE VACCINE, WE KNOW THAT OUR HOSPITALS ARE IN GOOD SHAPE.

WE DON'T HAVE A SURGE OF NEW CASES FLOODING OUR RESOURCES.

PEOPLE CAN GO OUT WITHOUT A MASK IF YOU ARE VACCINATED.

PEOPLE CAN ALLOW IT -- BUSINESSES CAN ALLOW THEM.

AND IF PEOPLE GET SICK, WHICH WILL HAPPEN, WE ARE NOT AT ZERO AND YOU WON'T BE AT ZERO.

WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO CARE FOR PEOPLE.

AND IF THEY HAVE UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITIONS TO PUT THEM AT RISK PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE PRECAUTIONS.

I THINK AT THIS POINT THE LARGER DANGER TO SOCIETY HAS SUBSIDED WITH THE VACCINATIONS AND THE PROPULSION'S.

AND NOW WE HAVE TO GET INTO REOPENING.

>> JIM, WE TALKED LAST TIME, I HAVE SEEN YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA ALONG WITH ONE OF THE DOCTORS, ENCOURAGING VACCINES.

WE SEEM TO HAVE HIT THAT PLATEAU AND THE JOURNAL HAD AN ARTICLE THE OTHER DAY THAT THE ESTIMATE IS 13% OF THE POPULATION JUST NEVER GETS IT FOR WHATEVER REASON.

DO YOU THINK THE MASKS COMING OFF WILL HELP OR HURT TO GET THE PEOPLE WHO MAY BE HESITANT?

JIM: I DON'T THINK IT'S A FACTOR ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE HESITANT FOR REASONS BEYOND THE MASK.

AND WE HAS A COMMUNITY ARE STILL MEETING ON A WEEKLY BASIS TO MAKE SURE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED HAVE FULL ACCESS AND ALSO GET THE EDUCATION THAT WE THINK THEY NEED IN ORDER TO GET -- IN ORDER FOR THEM TO KNOW THAT IT IS SAFE AND THEY SHOULD DO IT.

IF WE ARE EVER GETTING TO HERD IMMUNITY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US TO GET VACCINATED.

NOT JUST SOME OF US.

>> AND THERE WAS THE ISSUE OF THE COLLEGES.

BROWN JUST MADE THE DECISION AND THERE'S A WHOLE PUBLIC-PRIVATE THING.

THIS WILL BE AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION AS WE GO TO THE FALL.

WENDY: AND THERE ARE LEGAL QUESTIONS.

GEORGIA STATE IS NOT REQUIRING ANY VACCINATIONS.

YOU'RE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO ASK IF ANYBODY HAS BEEN VACCINATED AREA BROWN UNIVERSITY AND A LOT OF RHODE ISLAND SCHOOLS HAVE SAID IF YOU WANT TO WORK OR STUDY HERE AND BE ON CAMPUS YOU HAVE TO BE VACCINATED.

THEY ARE ASKING BUT NOT NECESSARILY REQUIRING YOU TO SHOW PROOF OF VACCINATION PER THIS WILL BE A REGIONAL PROBLEM.

RHODE ISLAND, WE HOPE, WILL HAVE LOTS OF TOURISM.

PEOPLE COMING TO RHODE ISLAND.

IT'S A BEAUTIFUL STATE.

WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE VACCINATED.

THAT'S MORE THE REASON WHY RHODE ISLANDERS SHOULD WANT TO BE VACCINATED, TO BE PROTECTED.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT INFLUX WILL DO WHEN SUMMER COMES.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT LEGALLY?

THAT'S A BIG QUESTION.

A PRIVATE BUSINESS CAN PRE-MUCH TO DO WHAT IT WANTS, BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME STICKY LEGAL QUESTIONS.

>> FITS BEING LITIGATED.

-- IT IS BEING LITIGATED.

MANY OF THESE HAVE BEEN DONE WITH OTHER VACCINATIONS IN THE PAST.

EMPLOYERS CAN REQUIRE THIS OF EMPLOYEES.

SO IF THERE'S A VACCINE AGAINST HAVE AN INTEREST IN WANTING TO KEEP THE WORKPLACE FREE OF THAT AND CAN MAKE IT A CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT.

AS FAR AS I KNOW, THERE'S NOT A CASE ON THE COVID VACCINE ITSELF, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF SIMILARITIES.

BUT I THINK FROM THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE AND A GOOD PRACTICE PERSPECTIVE IF WE ARE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION HAS RECEIVED ONE DOSE AND THE CASES ARE DOWN, CLOSE TO ZERO, THANKFULLY.

AND THE HOSPITALS ARE NOT SURGING WITH PATIENTS, THIS REQUIREMENT, THE IDEA THAT A BUSINESS HAS TO REQUIRE PEOPLE TO BE VACCINATED IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GO ABOUT THEIR DAILY BUSINESS, I THINK IS INTRUSIVE AND I DON'T THINK THE PUBLIC BENEFITS CLEARLY OUTWEIGH THE LIBERTY INTERESTS.

ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE CASE COUNT AND THE SHEER NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED.

WE ARE TRYING TO CHASE DOWN 13%.

I'M UNCOMFORTABLE.

>> YOU WOULD RATHER USE THE CARROT AND THE STICK.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IF YOU LOOK THE NUMBERS COME IT'S WORKING.

WENDY: LOOK AT WHAT OHIO IS DOING, MARYLAND.

OHIO HAS A LOTTERY, FIVE PEOPLE CAN WIN $1 MILLION EACH IF THEY GET VACCINATED.

THEY GET ENTERED INTO A LOTTERY.

I THINK MARYLAND IS NOW UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF JUNE, $40,000 A DAY FOR ONE PERSON TO GET VACCINATED AREA GO GET VACCINATED AND YOU COULD ENTER IT.

SO NOW OUR TAX DOLLARS, BECAUSE THAT'S TAX DOLLARS, THOSE ARE GOING TO BRIBE PEOPLE WHO ARE RELUCTANT TO GET THE VACCINE.

SO IN THAT CASE I'M NOT IN FAVOR.

THAT'S NOT A GOOD USE OF PUBLIC MONEY.

I DON'T THINK WE ARE OUT OF THE WOODS.

I AM MORE COMFORTABLE WITH YOUR POSITION SIX-MONTH FROM NOW THAN NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW THE VARIANTS AND WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS WILL REGAIN STRENGTH.

I THINK SIX MONTHS FROM NOW WE WILL HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF HOW EFFECTIVE THIS IS.

WENDY: I AGREE WITH -- JIM: I AGREE WITH WENDY, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

FREEDOM IS FINE BUT MY PUBLIC HEALTH INTEREST SUPERSEDES THE FREEDOM CONCERNS.

DAN: IF IT'S A BIG CONCERN THEN THE INSTITUTION SHOULD NOT REOPEN.

>> BUT THEN YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR OF TEXAS AND FEW WANT TO ORDER SOMEONE TO WEAR A MASK THAT YOU CAN'T DO IT.

THERE'S SOME INSANITY GOING ON ON BOTH SIDES, DON'T YOU THINK?

WENDY: LET'S SAY THE OWNER OF THE BUSINESS HAS A COMPROMISED IMMUNE SYSTEM AND IS ALREADY VACCINATED AND IS CONCERNED AND WANTS TO DO BUSINESS BUT IS PREVENTED BY GOVERNMENT FROM TAKING CAUTION -- PRECAUTIONS.

TEXAS IS TEXAS BUT THIS IS FEDERALISM.

THIS IS WHAT WE SEE WITH COVID.

DIFFERENT SIX -- STATES HAVE TAKEN US ON.

HE ALSO HAVE NATURAL AND NONNATURAL IMMUNITIES AND VULNERABILITIES.

PEOPLE ARE PHYSICALLY BILLED DIFFERENTLY AND IT'S A HUGE CHALLENGE TO FIGURE OUT THE CIVIL LIBERTIES PART VERSUS THE PUBLIC HEALTH PART.

>> WE SURPRISED BY THE CDC'S ANNOUNCEMENT A WEEK AGO.

I WAS ON A PLANE, MY FIRST TRIP IN A YEAR AND I GOT OFF, YOU LAND AND IT SAYS THE CDC RELEASES THE MANDATES.

WHEN YOU SAW THAT, WERE YOU SURPRISED?

IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THEY WENT FARTHER THAN I EXPECTED.

A COUPLE WHITE HOUSE OFF GUARD.

DAN: I WAS SURPRISED IN THE SENSE THAT THEY GOT IT MADE SENSE.

IT MAKES SENSE AND THIS IS WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHO BECAME CRITICS FOR SOME REASON AND IT BECAME A POLITICAL ISSUE, HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR WEEKS.

WHY ARE TWO VACCINATED PEOPLE STANDING OUTSIDE IN THE OPEN-AIR HAVING TO WEAR MASKS WHILE TALKING TO EACH OTHER?

I THINK PUBLICLY A LOT OF PEOPLE STARTED TALKING ABOUT THAT AND THE CDC DECIDED TO CATCH UP.

I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WERE NOT COORDINATED ON THE MESSAGING.

JIM: IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS A CONTRADICTION, ONE WAY ONE WEEKEND ANOTHER THE NEXT.

IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED AND ALL AND YOU HAVE ONLY HAD ONE VACCINATION I'M NOT SO CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL FREEDOM, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT YOU SPREADING THE COVID TO OTHER PEOPLE.

YOU MAY NOT CARE ABOUT YOURSELF, BUT CARE ABOUT YOUR FELLOW CITIZENS.

I'M STILL ON THE CAUTIOUS SIDE.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T INFRINGE UPON FREEDOMS BY ALSO THINK THAT THERE'S A FREEDOM FOR US TO LIVE.

OVER 500,000 PEOPLE, HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY THIS DISEASE.

WENDY: I DO WONDER, IF THEY GOT TO A POINT WHERE THEY REALIZED THAT PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT YET VACCINATED ARE PROBABLY FEELING COMFORTABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE SUCH A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE.

THIS IS NOT AS MUCH OF A THREAT SO YOU DON'T BOTHER TO GET VACCINATED AND THEN THE CDC SAYS ALL MASKS ARE OFF SO NOW MAYBE IT'S A LITTLE LESS SAFE FOR YOU TO RUN AROUND IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED.

WE COULD SEE MORE PEOPLE EVENTUALLY GETTING VACCINATED OVER THE SUMMER.

WE WILL SEE COVID STILL HERE.

PEOPLE GETTING SICK.

AND I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED MIGHT WANT TO BE MORE PROTECTED.

NOW THAT NOBODY IS PROTECTING ME BY THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR BY WEARING A MASK, I THINK MAYBE I HAVE TO GO GET THIS DONE.

I'M CURIOUS WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

>> TWO YEARS AGO, THE TALK WAS ABOUT THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

AND HERE WE ARE, FAST-FORWARD TWO YEARS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING HAVE WE MADE ANY PROGRESS?

OF COURSE IT'S BEEN A BIG ISSUE WITH THE SUPERINTENDENT IN PROVIDENCE WITH CALLS FOR HIS RESIGNATION.

IT IS SAD BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE A LOST TWO YEARS.

I REALIZE A LOT OF THIS HAD TO DO WITH THE PANDEMIC BUT WHAT DO WE DO WITH PROVIDENCE?

DAN: I WOULD NORMALLY SAY LET'S WORK THE PLAN AND GIVE IT TIME.

WE LURCHED FROM PLAN TO PLAN AN IDEA AND IDEA AND SUPERINTENDENT AND SUPERINTENDENT AND WE NEVER GIVE TIME FOR A PLAN TO STICK.

IN THIS CASE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PLAN IS.

TWO YEARS AGO, THIS DOES NOT SEEM TO COUNT SO WE HAVE NO YEAR TO GAUGE PROGRESS.

I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE MANAGEMENT FAILURE OF HIRING SOMEONE WITH SUCH A CHECKERED HISTORY.

WHY YOU WOULD PUT THEM INTO AN ENVIRONMENT AS A MINISTER -- AS AN ADMINISTRATOR AROUND CHILDREN.

THIS CRATES A LARGER CONCERN IF WE ARE FAILING AT THAT LEVEL.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO GET RIGHT?

JIM: I THINK WE ARE AT A POINT OR TIMES UP.

I'D LIKE TO SEE THE COMMISSIONER REWRITE THAT CONTRACT AND LET'S MOVE ON.

BECAUSE OF THE REPORT, WE KNOW THAT PROVIDENCE IS ONE OF THE WORST PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS THAT HAS BEEN FAILING FOR 40 YEARS.

WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO FAIL FOR ANOTHER 30 OR 40.

I WOULD LIKE FOR THE COMMISSIONER TO COME IN HERE, TEAR THE CONTRACT UP AND REWRITE IT SO WE COULD GET SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME GOOD THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED EVEN WITH THE PANDEMIC, BUT I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO SENIORITY AND THOSE ISSUES, WE WILL NEVER GET MEANINGFUL CHANGE IN A SYSTEM OR 92% OF THE CHILDREN ARE STUDENTS OF COLOR AND 80% OF THE TEACHERS ARE WHITE.

WE HAVE TO ALLOW FOR MORE TEACHERS OF COLOR AND THIS ONLY HAPPENS IF THE CONTRACT IS REWRITTEN IN A MEANINGFUL WAY SO WE CAN HAVE SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.

I'M TIRED OF TALKING ABOUT IT.

LET'S MOVE.

>> THAT WAS THE DEAL WHEN THEY CAME IN AND SAID THE STATE TAKEOVER WILL ALLOW US TOO SOME HEADS, MY WORDS, AND IMPOSE THE CONTRACTOR AND I REMEMBER BEING AT ONE OF THE BRIEFINGS AND THEY ASKED THE COMMISSIONER, WHERE ARE WE ON THE CONTRACT?

AND SHE SAID WE ARE ABOUT 90% THERE.

CLEARLY NOT TRUE.

WHAT ARE THE UPS AND DOWNS.

THE CONTRACT IS THE BIG DEAL.

WHY -- I KNOW IT'S A CRYSTAL BALL QUESTION, WHY ISN'T THE STATE GOING IN AND INVOKING THE PROBABLY ACT?

WENDY: WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE CONTRACT AND THE TEACHERS AND I HEARD A GREAT EXPRESSION, YOU CANNOT BE WHAT YOU CAN SEE.

IF YOU ARE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM AND YOU ONLY LOOK AT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT OF YOUR BACKGROUND AND YOU SAY WHY WOULD I BE A SCHOOLTEACHER.

THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF TERRIFIC THINGS TO GIVE CREDENCE TO THE IDEA THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS IN THE CLASSROOM WITH STUDENTS WITH A YOUNG AGE.

IT'S ALSO HOLISTIC.

I WORK FOR A SENATOR WHO SAID IT'S ALL ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE LIVING, THE SAFETY OF THEIR HOMES, WHETHER THEY GET PROPER NUTRITION.

DO THEY HAVE A STABLE FAMILY LIFE.

THESE ARE THINGS TEACHERS CANNOT ASK.

THESE ARE ISSUES THAT COME INTO THE BACK -- INTO THE CLASSROOM.

TEACHERS DO THEIR BEST BUT CANNOT FIX ALL THOSE THINGS.

UNLESS THERE'S A BROAD PLAN, YOU HAVE TO FIX EVERYTHING, THERE'S INCOME INEQUALITY IN PROVIDENCE.

YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE ALL OF THOSE THINGS WORK TOGETHER.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE NOT SEEING, ON THE STATE LEVEL.

>> AND THE SOCIAL ILLS LIKE NEW YORK AND THE BRONX AND COMPTON, THOSE KIDS ACHIEVE HIGHER ACADEMICALLY.

BECAUSE SOMETHING HAPPENS IN THOSE CLASSROOMS THAT'S DIFFERENT.

SOMETHING IN TERMS OF THE ADMINISTRATIONS OF THE BUILDINGS IT'S DIFFERENT.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT APPLES TO APPLES, WE ARE FAILING.

YOU HAVE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE POORER THAN OURS DOING BETTER THAN US.

IT'S HERE WHERE THE ADMINISTRATIONS, THE LAYERING OF THE SCHOOL COMMITTEES AND CITY COUNCILS IN THE PAST HAS TO BE CHANGED.

STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT WHEN TEACHERS OF COLOR -- WHEN STUDENTS OF COLOR HAVE TEACHERS OF COLOR IN FRONT OF THEM, THEY DO BETTER.

AND EVEN WHITE STUDENTS WITH TEACHERS OF COLOR DO BETTER.

>> BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO SCHOOL HUNGRY AND YOU HAVE DISENGAGED PARENTS.

WENDY: OR IF YOU HAVE TO DODGE BULLETS ON THE WAY TO SCHOOL.

>> OF COURSE THAT'S A DISADVANTAGE.

BUT THOSE THINGS ARE ALSO IN CHICAGO AND DETROIT.

THEY HAVE ALL OF THAT THEY ARE AND WORSE AND THOSE SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE DOING BETTER.

SO THAT CAN'T BE THE REASON BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON PROVIDENCE GETS AN F. >> WHAT ABOUT GOING IN AND IMPOSING THE CONTRACT, LEGALLY.

DAN: I THINK THEY ARE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE POINT BY POINT.

THEY ARE CLEARLY NOT TRYING TO IMPOSE SOMETHING BY YACHT OR THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT A LONG TIME AGO.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, CALM PLACE PROBLEMS DON'T ALWAYS REQUIRE COMPLEX SOLUTIONS AND I THINK THEY ARE GETTING STUCK IN THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE PROVIDENCE SCHOOLCHILDREN WITH VOUCHERS TO GO TO SCHOOLS THAT WORK FOR THEM AND THEIR PARENTS AND CUT THE DISTRICT DOWN TO SIZE SO IT'S MORE MANAGEABLE.

GIVEN THE CURRENT BREATH OF WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS.

WENDY: AND INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO MANY SCHOOLS ARE CRUMBLING.

>> YEAH WHERE WAS THAT BIG $250 MILLION -- WENDY: SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, WHERE HE GOES GO MATTERS AND THE PHYSICAL CONDITION OF WHERE YOU GOES TO SCHOOL.

WE HAVE HUGE PENSION LIABILITY IN THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE AND THE MAYOR HAS COME UP WITH A NEW PLAN TO TRY TO ADDRESS THAT THROUGH A BOND ISSUE.

THAT'S A BIG LOOMING PROBLEM.

YOU ARE DRAINING MONEY FROM WHERE YOU COULD PUT IT, EDUCATION OR INFRASTRUCTURE AND UNTIL YOU FIX THAT, I THINK PROVIDENCE IS STRUCK -- IS STUCK.

>> I AGREE, BUT THE COMMISSIONER HAS TO REWRITE THAT CONTRACT AND THE BOLD AND TAKE ACTION.

>> BUT THERE'S ALSO THE CHARTER SCHOOL QUESTION AND VOUCHERS.

NO MORATORIUM FOR THREE YEARS AND IT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA, THAT'S BEEN GOVERNOR MCKEE'S BABY OVER THE YEARS.

WENDY: HE'S WALKING A FINE LINE ON THAT END YOU'VE HAD SOME SUCCESS BUT THE IDEA IS THAT THE FUNDING HAS TO BE FIXED.

THEY TRIED TO REMEDY THE PROBLEM.

ALL OF THE MONEY STAYS WITH THE STUDENTS.

AND YOU ARE DRAINING THE PUBLIC SCHOOL INFRASTRUCTURE IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES EVEN WORSE WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS WHICH GRATES ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS.

YOU HAVE TO FIX THAT.

YOU CAN'T LEAVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN PARTS OF THE CITIES THAT ARE NOT PERFORMING IS A CLAY COME IN TERMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE OR CAPACITY CRIPPLED BECAUSE STUDENTS ARE SEEKING BETTER EDUCATION.

>> FOR THE SCHOOL IS HALF-FULL BECAUSE HALF OF THE STUDENTS LEFT SO IT'S AN INFRASTRUCTURE QUESTION.

WE ARE NOT BUILDING A SCHOOL FOR A CAPACITY THAT'S TWICE WHAT IT IS.

WENDY: THAT'S TRUE.

DAN: ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO COME TO CONSIDERATION.

JIM: THERE'S NO NEED FOR CHARTER SCHOOLS -- WENDY: THEY CAN BE QUALITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

JIM: BUT IF YOU HAVE QUALITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS WAY SCHOOLS HAVE TRADITIONALLY BEEN BEFORE CHARTER SCHOOLS THERE WOULD BE NO NEED.

WE SHOULD FOCUS ON QUALITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

LIKE A LASER.

DAN: THAT'S ANOTHER GENERATION FOR A LOT OF PARENTS ALIKE I WANT IT NOW.

WENDY: 10 CHARTER SCHOOLS DO HAVE SOME GOOD PRACTICES.

IT'S LIKE MAGNET SCHOOLS.

THEY ARE SPECIALIZED IN ARTS AND SCIENCES OUR SCIENCES AND SCIENCES OR SCIENCES IN MATH OR WHATEVER.

BUT THE POINT IS, GOOD PRACTICES AND SUCCESSFUL EDUCATION SHOULD BE EMULATED IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE NO MATTER WHO IS PRODUCING IT.

DAN: I CAN'T DISAGREE WITH THAT.

>> TOGETHER, FOR ONCE.

DAN: BUT I DON'T GET HUNG UP ON THE OWNER OF THE SCHOOL BUILDING ITSELF.

UNIVERSAL ACCESS TO QUALITY EDUCATION FOR ALL STUDENTS IS THE KEY.

THAT'S THE TAKE AWAY.

FOR ME.

WHETHER THAT'S IN A PUBLIC SETTING OR CHARTER SCHOOL OR PRIVATE SCHOOL OR PUBLICLY FUNDED VOUCHERS, WE ARE TRYING TO COME PUSH THE SAME GOAL.

UNIVERSAL ACCESS TO HIGH-QUALITY PUBLIC EDUCATION.

>> I DO WANT TO GET TO A COUPLE THINGS BUT I DON'T WANT TO SHORT YOU ON OUTRAGES OR KUDOS.

>> I WANT TO GIVE MY FIRST KUDO, EVER.

I WAS WATCHING A NEWS CONFERENCE WITH GMAIL SEMI-LAST SUMMER -- WITH JEAN, AND HE SAID, I GUESS HE WAS CITING A STUDY THAT CLASSICAL HIGH SCHOOL NOT ONLY THE NUMBER ONE HIGH SCHOOL IN RHODE ISLAND BUT ALSO ONE HUNTER 44 PUBLIC SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY -- 144 -- 144 OUT OF 18,000 SCHOOLS.

SO THAT IS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE.

>> AND YOU WILL HAVE PEOPLE WHO SAY IT ISN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE.

JIM: BUT IT'S 144 NOW AT 18,000 THAT'S MY KUDO, MY FIRST KUDO.

DAN: AND HERE'S A QUICK REMEMBRANCE, TO MARRIAGE OF SOLOMON SENIOR -- MAYOR JOE SOLOMON SENIOR.

THEY WERE A GREAT WORK FAMILY AND MY HEART GOES OUT TO THEM AND SAID THAT THESE DURING A VERY DIFFICULT TIME.

>> I SPOKE TO THEM JUST A MONTH AGO, THEY SOUNDED FINE BUT SOUNDS CAN BE DECEIVING.

I THINK IT CAUGHT BY SURPRISE.

WENDY: MY OUTRAGE OF COURSES GUN VIOLENCE.

CONSTANT GUN VIOLENCE.

ALL THE TIME.

WE HAVE PROBLEMS IN PROVIDENCE AND I THINK WE HAVE NOT SEEN THIS SPREAD WITH ANOTHER 19-YEAR-OLD LOSING THEIR LIFE LAST WEEKEND.

IT'S CONSULATE -- IT'S CONSTANT.

WE HAVE A FAIRLY LOW MURDER BY GUN RATE COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

WE ARE IN THE TOP FIVE OF NOT HAVING THAT AS AN ISSUE BUT CLEARLY SOMETHING IS GOING ON WITH MUCH BIGGER PROBLEMS.

WE HAVE TO TRY TO ADDRESS THIS.

I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD TAKE ILLEGAL GUN AWAY BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DIED BY ACCIDENT OR COLLATERAL DAMAGE FROM THE AVAILABILITY OF GUNS AND WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

>> JIM VINCENT, LET ME GO BACK TO YOU, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.

AS WE GET TO THE END OF THE SEMESTER -- I'M LOOKING AT YOU.

AS WE GET TO THE END OF THE SESSION.

THERE HAS BEEN THIS PANOPLY OF THINGS ELIMINATED AS OPPOSED TO CHANGES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN?

JIM: I DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL SO ANYTHING MAY HAPPEN.

MY POSITION AS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT REPEALED.

THEY DON'T NEED IT.

IT SHOULD BE ELIMINATED.

WHEN POLICE CHIEFS WERE SUSPENDING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT WEARING THEIR HAT RIGHT YOU NEED IT.

IN 35 OTHER STATES YOU DON'T HAVE A POLICEMAN'S BILL OF RIGHTS.

DAN: BUT THIS IS RHODE ISLAND.

JIM: I DON'T CARE.

PEOPLE SAY THAT YOU CAN'T TREAT POLICE THE SAME WAY AS FIREFIGHTERS OR TEACHERS.

EVEN IF I BOUGHT THAT ARGUMENT, TREAT THEM THE SAME AS POLICE OFFICERS IN CONNECTICUT OR MASSACHUSETTS.

IT'S DUE PROCESS ONTO PROCESS.

IT'S WASTE THAT'S NOT NEEDED AND IT CAUSES A GLITCH IN THE SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE WILL NOT DO THE RIGHT THING IS THE POLICE OFFICER -- AS THE POLICE OFFICER TO GET AWAY WITH THINGS FOR TOO LONG.

IT TAKES SIX MONTHS FOR A HEARING, ANOTHER YEAR BEFORE YOU GO TO THE SUPERIOR COURT.

THAT'S TOO LONG.

NO CHIEF CAN FIRE ANY POLICE OFFICER FOR ANYTHING IN RHODE ISLAND.

THE MOST THEY CAN GIVE IS A TWO DAY UNRELIEVED -- TWO DAY UNPAID SUSPENSION.

DAN: SHORT OF A FELONY CONVICTION.

JIM: SHORT OF A FELONY CONVICTION.

>> DID THEY TAKE A STAB AT THIS WHILE YOU ARE IN THE HOUSE?

DOING SOME TWEAKS?

DAN: BEFORE THE LAST YEAR, THE POLICE OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS WOULD COME UP IN THE CONTEXT OF MANAGEMENT VERSUS LABOR.

POLICE CHIEFS COMPLAINING THAT THEY HAD A TRUE BAD APPLE AND IT CREATED A PROCESS PROBLEM.

WITH THE TIME DELAY STACK SHOULD GET THIS DONE.

AND I THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TWEAK THAT AND CHANGE THAT.

IF IT'S HARMING THE ABILITY OR IMPINGING ON THE ABILITY OF THE TOWN TO ACTUALLY GET RID OF A TRUE BAD APPLE, LET'S MAKE CHANGES.

I THINK IN THE DAY AND AGE WE LIVE IN, THE CORE CONCEPT OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER.

PROTECTING THE PRIVATE INFORMATION AND IDENTITY OF POLICE OFFICERS ALLEGED TO HAVE ENGAGED IN MISCONDUCT THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN PROVEN IS IMPORTANT.

THEY WILL ALSO BE DOCS ON TWITTER WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING.

WHERE YOU HAVE TO PUT A SECURITY DETAIL AROUND POLICE OFFICERS HOMES THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ALLEGED TO ENGAGE IN MISCONDUCT EVEN IF CLEARED.

THAT'S WRONG.

I AGREE WITH THE POLICE UNIONS IN THE SENSE THAT THEY DO NEED THOSE PROTECTIONS, GIVEN THE TYPE OF WORK THEY AND THE NATURE OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT ARE INEVITABLY GOING TO FLOW FROM WHAT THEY DO.

>> WENDY, JUMP IN.

WENDY: THE PRINCIPLE BEHIND THIS IS PRE-BODY CAMERAS.

I THINK FOR POLICE OFFICERS, BODY CAMERAS CAN BE THE THINGS THAT EXONERATE THEM OR CONFIRMS THAT THEY BEHAVED BADLY.

SO WE HAVE A NEW LAYER OF SUPERVISION FOR POLICE OFFICERS WHICH WORKS TO THEIR BENEFIT AND THEIR DETRIMENT DEPENDING UPON WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.

SO THE ARBITRARINESS OF ADJUDICATING POLICE MISCONDUCT THAT YOU NEED A BILL OF RIGHTS FOR, IF EVERYBODY WEARS A BODY CAMERA, THIS CHANGES THE WHOLE DYNAMIC.

PLEASE UNIONS HAVE TO COME TO THE TABLE AND SAY WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED ALL THESE PROTECTIONS IF WE HAVE BODY CAMERAS THAT SHOW WE HAVEN'T HAVEN'T DONE.

DAN: IF I BOUGHT ALL OF THAT, EVERY -->> ITS DUE PROCESS ON TOP OF DUE PROCESS THERE'S ENOUGH DUE PROCESS WITHOUT IT.

MASSACHUSETTS AND CONNECTICUT DON'T HAVE IT SO I HAVE IT?

IT'S RHODE ISLAND HAVING MORE LAWYERS TO SOLVE PROBLEMS THAT DON'T EXIST.

>> ONCE AGAIN, THE FASTEST 30 MINUTES AND TELEVISION.

IT'S GREAT TO BE BACK HERE.

BUT IT'S NOT OVER YET.

SOME NATIONAL ISSUES TO GET TO.

WHILE THE MAIN PROGRAM IS OVER, GO TO OUR ONLINE BONUS PREGNANT -- SEGMENT.

WE WILL HAVE OUR GUESTS AND WE WILL BE RIGHT BACK WITH AN EXTRA BONUS SEGMENT FOR THE REST OF YOU.

AND COME BACK HERE FOR THE NEXT WEEK AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] [CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] >> THE LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS THE LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS FOR IMPORTANT CLINICAL ISSUES.