>> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," FEDERAL STIMULUS MONEY IS CAUSING A HEADACHE ON SMALL BUSINESSES.

PLUS, THE PUSH ON MORE PEOPLE TO BE VACCINATED.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOUR YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT ON ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'M PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US WITH THE ANALYSIS, DONNA PERRY WITH THE SUN-CHRONICLE.

KEITH STOKES, THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE 1696 HERITAGE GROUP.

AND CORPORATE COMMUNICATIONS CONSULTANT, DAVE LAYMAN.

JIM: WELCOME, WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING PART OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.

YOU MIGHT CALL IT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, THE EXTENSION OF FEDERAL UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS HAS MANY WORKERS POPPING TO STAY HOME AND MAKE MORE MONEY COLLECTING.

THAT HAS A LOT OF BUSINESS OWNERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY SCRAMBLING TO FIND EMPLOYEES AND A LITTLE WORRIED AS WE GO INTO THE SUMMER SEASON.

HE, AS OUR ISLAND CORRESPONDENT, NEWPORT'S CENTRAL, EVERYONE WAS EXCITED ABOUT THEM COMING BUT NOW I'M NOT SURE.

IF YOU HAVE TO WAIT TWO HOURS TO GET YOUR APPETIZER AT A RESTAURANT, THAT IS NOT GOOD FOR ANYBODY.

>> THIS IS A CHALLENGE ACROSS ALL SECTORS.

WE ARE SEEING IT IN PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.

THIS LABOR SHORTAGE IS A HIGH PRICE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

I SEE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO FAST-TRACK TRAINING PROGRAMS AND RECRUITMENT EFFORTS, ESPECIALLY WITH STIMULUS DOLLARS COMING TO STATES AND LARGE CITIES.

I THINK THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO BE THINKING OUTSIDE OF THE BOX TO BE ABLE TO RECRUIT AND RETAIN QUALITY EMPLOYEES.

I THINK SOME THINGS WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT QUITE CAREFULLY IS NUMBER ONE WE NEED TO WIDEN OUR RECRUITMENT PROCESS TO INCLUDE URBAN COMMUNITIES WHERE POPULATION GROWTH IS THE FASTEST AND WHERE MUCH OF THE FEDERAL STIMULUS DOLLARS ARE TARGETED.

THERE IS AN INCENTIVE FOR SMALL BUSINESSES TO RECRUIT, TRAIN, AND PLACE CERTAIN POPULATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN.

DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED BY COVID.

I THINK YOU'RE GOOD TO SEE MORE PARTNERSHIPS.

IN RHODE ISLAND WE HAVE SEEN SIGNIFICANT WORKFORCE TRAINING DOLLARS.

THEY HAVE A PROGRAM WHICH IS OUTSTANDING, IT HAS BEEN HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL.

THEY'RE LOOKING TO FULLY EXPAND THE PROGRAM AND TARGETING PROGRAM TO HELP EXISTING BUSINESSES TO RECRUIT AND TRAIN AND PLACE QUALITY EMPLOYEES.

I THINK THERE IS ANY OPPORTUNITY HERE.

WE WILL HAVE TO THINK ON OUR FEET AND PARTNER.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE NEED AS A BUSINESS TO BEGIN TO PROVIDE BENEFITS THAT ENTICE AND KEEP EMPLOYEES.

IT WILL BE THINGS SUCH AS COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH CARE.

HEALTH CARE HAS BECOME A PRIORITY FOR ALL OF US.

I HAVE SEEN TRANSPORTATION IF YOU HAVE A BUSINESS IN NORTH KINGSTON AND YOUR RECRUITING FROM ANOTHER AREA, TRANSPORTATION INCENTIVES NEED TO BECOME IMPORTANT.

THESE ARE ALL THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS TO GET BUSINESSES BACK ON TRACK.

JIM: AFTER ALL, THIS IS RHODE ISLAND.

THAT IS A LONG TRIP.

DONNA, ALL OF THAT IS GREAT FOR THE LONG RUN.

FOR THE SHORT TERM WE ARE LOOKING AT A SEASON --I FOUND INTERESTING THE GOVERNOR OF MONTANA SAID -- PARTICIPATION IN THE PROGRAM.

I DON'T THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN IN RHODE ISLAND.

WHAT CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO NOW?

I DON'T THINK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THOUGHT THIS THROUGH.

DONNA: I WOULD AGREE AND I WOULD AGREE WITH KEITH THAT WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT FOR THE LONG TERM AND HAVING GOOD EMPLOYEE STABILITY SUPPORTS BENEFITS.

THAT IS WHERE IT HAS TO GO FOR THE LONG-TERM.

THIS IS AT A TIPPING POINT.

HERE WE ARE IN MAY AND SOME FOLKS I'VE TALKED TO, THEY ARE SAYING THIS IS REALLY AT A CRUNCH POINT.

THOSE EXTENDED BENEFITS -- THE EXTENDING INTO THE SUMMER.

FOLKS IN THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY , THAT IS ONE THING THEY DID NOT WANT TO SEE FOR WHAT IS PLAYING OUT RIGHT NOW.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY, YOU GUYS KNOW WHEN THE LAST BIG 1.8 GAZILLION WE JUST PASSED, WE NEED THAT HELP.

OKAY, FINE.

THERE IS ABOUT $30 BILLION IN THERE JUST FOR THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY BECAUSE THEY WERE SO BADLY HURT.

I JUST SPOKE TO SOMEONE -- FOLKS I TALKED TO SAID THEY CANNOT GET KITCHEN STAFF OR WAIT STAFF RIGHT AT THE POINT WHEN THE RESTRICTIONS ARE DROPPING AND THEY EXPECT THEY WANT FLOODS OF IN DOWNTOWNS.

WHETHER IT IS PROVIDENCE, NEWPORT, AND THE EAST SIDE.

IT IS A COLLISION OF TOUGH MOMENTS.

IF YOU TALK TO RESTAURANT PEOPLE, THEY ARE SAYING THEY WANT TO FILL UP THE PLACE, THE SIDEWALK CAFES.

WE CANNOT GET THE STAFF.

IT IS A PROBLEM.

JIM: DAVE?

DAVE: THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY HAS LOST PROBABLY ONE THIRD OF THEIR WORKERS AS A RESULT OF THIS.

IT MAY VERY WELL BE THAT THE STIMULUS BILL DUE TO THE INDUSTRY WHAT HE PANDEMIC HAS THE PANDEMIC HAS ALREADY DONE TO IT.

YOU DO HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE STAYING AT HOME.

I OFTEN WONDER HOW THE EMPLOYERS , ESPECIALLY IN THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY WHO HAVE HAD LONGTIME EMPLOYEES, THOSE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT COMING BACK TO WORK.

THERE IS A LOYALTY ELEMENT HERE THAT ESCAPES ME.

I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THAT.

I UNDERSTAND THE PULL OF BEING ABLE TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY BY STAYING AT HOME OR EVEN MAKING MORE MONEY IN SOME CASES.

WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE EMPLOYER WHO HAS EMPLOYED YOU FOR MANY YEARS?

IF I WERE AN EMPLOYER, I WOULD BE DISAPPOINTED WITH SOME OF THE LOYALTY I HAVE SEEN BY THE WORKERS.

THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM.

KEITH, YOU ARE TALKING INTO THE FUTURE BUT I THINK THE PRESENT IS GOING TO BE A KILLER.

I REMEMBER TALKING WITH A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE NEWPORT RESTAURANT INDUSTRY AND THEY WERE TELLING ME THAT THEY THOUGHT THIS BEFORE WE GOT THE SECOND STIMULUS.

THEY THOUGHT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO OKAY THIS SUMMER.

I THINK THERE IS A MONKEYWRENCH HERE AND IT IS DUE TO THE GOOD INTENTIONS THAT HAD A BAD RESULT.

THAT IS UNFORTUNATE.

JIM: I WONDER, KEITH, THERE ARE SOME BILLS LEGISLATORS HAVE TRIED TO COME UP WITH INCENTIVES AND TWEAKING THE PROGRAM.

I WONDER IF THERE IS ANYTHING THE LEGISLATURE CAN DO OR IF WE JUST HAVE TO PLAY THIS OUT AND EVENTUALLY IT WILL RUN OUT AT THE END OF THE SUMMER.

EVERY THOUGHT ABOUT SHORT-TERM?

KEITH: THERE ARE SHORT-TERM TRAINING PROGRAMS.

THESE WORKERS, IT IS ALL ABOUT A LIVABLE WAGE.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HIGH-END COMMUNITIES LIKE NEWPORT WHICH I LOVE BUT IT IS ALSO A COST UNFRIENDLY PLACE TO LIVE FOR MANY PEOPLE.

THE REALITY IS IF WE ARE LOOKING TO ATTRACT A YOUNGER, NEWLY ARRIVED WORKFORCE WITHIN THESE ENTRY-LEVEL SERVICE INDUSTRIES, TO THOSE INDUSTRIES PROVIDE WAGES THAT ARE LIVABLE AND ALLOW THEM TO LIVE?

WITHIN THE COMMUNITY THEY WORK?

?

-- TO LIVE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY THEY WORK?

IF NOT WE WILL HAVE TO PROVIDE INCENTIVES.

WE HAVE TO PROVIDE INCENTIVES TO ATTRACT AND KEEP QUALITY WORKERS.

POSSIBLY NOW MORE THAN EVER.

DAVE: YOU HAVE TO SAY THIS ABOUT THE EMPLOYEES YOU ARE STAYING AT HOME.

THEY ARE BEING HIT AS WELL GIVEN MANY -- GIVEN MANY OF THEM HAVE CHILDREN WHO ARE AT HOME BECAUSE SCHOOLS HAVE NOT BEEN REOPENED TO A GREAT EXTENT.

THEY HAVE GOT A PUSH-PULL.

WHEN I STRESS THE LOYALTY ISSUE, THERE IS THE OTHER ASPECT THAT SOME OF THESE PEOPLE MAY NEED TO STAY AT HOME BECAUSE THEY HAVE CHILDREN AT HOME AND THEY ARE DOING REMOTE LEARNING WITH THEM, THEY HAVE TO SUPERVISE THEM AND ALL OF THAT.

THERE IS A POINT TO BE MADE AND I DIDN'T WANT TO MISS THAT.

JIM: COVID, COVID, COVID.

PART OF THE SUMMER IS THE REOPENING'S.

THE GOVERNOR IS BEGINNING TO DRAWBACK RESTRICTIONS.

THERE IS A LOT TO COVER HERE.

KIDS ARE GETTING VACCINES AND REOPENING SCHOOLS IN THE FALL.

DONNA, YOU HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS.

WHAT IS ON YOUR MIND?

THE NUMBERS LOOK GOOD, THE INFECTION RATES ARE GOING DOWN.

THE CDC SAID THINGS ARE LOOKING BETTER BUT THERE ARE STILL SOME QUESTIONS AS WE GET BACK TO THE NEW NORMAL.

DONNA: I THINK WHEN WE GO BACK A YEAR AGO, WE ALL SHOULD FEEL VERY RELIEVED AND HOPEFUL.

WE PAID A BIG PRICE FOR THIS.

WE ARE AT THIS POINT IN THE COUNTRY WHERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TURNING THE CORNER.

I THINK THAT WAS ROCHELLE WALENSKY'S WORDS THE OTHER DAY.

I NOTED THAT WHEN THESE MAJOR CITIES ARE ANNOUNCING, LIKE NEW YORK IS GOING TO HAVE THIS SIGNATURE REOPENING DAY, JULY 1.

THEY ARE GOING TO OPEN ALL OF NEW YORK, 100% CAPACITY ACROSS RESTAURANTS, ENTERTAINMENT, AMUSEMENTS, THE YANKEES AND ALL OF THIS STUFF.

THEY ARE GETTING PEOPLE BACK IN WITH MASKING AND CERTAIN CONDITIONS.

MASSACHUSETTS RECENTLY DROPPED OUTSIDE MASKING.

BOSTON RIGHT NOW, I THINK BAKER IS GOING TO BE UNDER PRESSURE.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CATCHING THE SUMMER BUSINESS, HE HAS ANNOUNCED MASSACHUSETTS WOULD BE AT AN AUGUST 1 REOPENING DATE.

HE IS UNDER PRESSURE TO OPEN THAT UP SOONER.

THE CONDITIONS ARE GETTING BETTER AND BETTER.

MASSACHUSETTS WENT FROM A BAD VACCINATION ROLLOUT TO WE ARE THE TOP STATE VACCINATING.

IT IS GOOD NEWS.

FOR RHODE ISLAND, I DON'T KNOW IF MICKEY -- GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS MADE A TIMEFRAME BUT HE SHOULD BE UNDER PRESSURE TO DO THAT FOR THIS REASON.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT NEW TORT, TOURISTS WANT TO RETURN -- TALK ABOUT NEWPORT, TOURISTS WANT TO RETURN AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE BIG GREEN LIGHT.

I THINK IT IS A BIG MARKETING MOMENT TO SAY RHODE ISLAND IS REOPENING FOR THE FOURTH OF JULY.

I THINK HE SHOULD BE URGED TO DO THAT.

THESE THINGS SIGNAL TO THE PUBLIC IT IS SAFE TO GET BACK AROUND.

OUTSIDE MASKING HAS FINALLY BEEN RECOGNIZED IS NOT NEEDED.

IT IS BEING LEGALLY DROPPED IN MOST STATES.

INSIDE A CROWDED RESTAURANT IS WHERE IT MIGHT CONTINUE TO BE PRUDENT.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THESE NORTHEAST STATES, THEY COME ON THE SUMMER COASTAL -- I DON'T THINK PEOPLE WANT TO WAIT AROUND UNTIL AUGUST OR LABOR DAY.

CONNECTICUT AND NEW JERSEY ARE DOING MASSIVE REOPENING'S, I BELIEVE MAY 19.

THE REST OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS SAYING THE TRI-STATE REGION IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS MID-MAY.

I THINK IT SHOULD PUT PRESSURE ON MASKS.

THE NEW ENGLAND GOVERNORS NEED TO SAY WE ARE OPEN AND WE MEAN IT.

WE WANT THAT, RHODE ISLAND NEED SOME OF THAT TOURISM BACK.

JIM: KEITH?

I AM SORRY, DAVE.

DAVE: LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS WE HAVE SEEN ABOUT RHODE ISLAND AND THE COUNTRY, RHODE ISLAND IS THE SIXTH STATE IN TERMS OF NEW CASES OF COVID.

HOPEFULLY WITH THE VACCINATIONS, THAT FIGURE IS GOING TO BE LESS ONEROUS.

I THINK WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT NEWPORT DRAWS PEOPLE FROM ALL AROUND THE WORLD, NOT JUST FROM THE REGION.

I THINK WE STILL HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT CAUTIOUS WE DON'T OVERDO IT TO QUICKLY -- OVERDO IT TOO QUICKLY WHERE WE END UP BEING IN THE NUMBER ONE OR NUMBER TWO SPOT OF NEW CASES ON A PER CAPITA BASIS.

WE ARE A SMALL STATE.

IF WE END UP WITH NO PROTECTIONS AT ALL, WE MAY FIND OURSELVES IN A SERIOUS JAM BEFORE THE SUMMER IS OUT, NOT AFTER THE SUMMER IS OUT.

JIM: WHAT WAS THE CONCERN ON THAT, DAVE, ALL ALONG?

WHO IS GETTING INFECTED?

YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE GETTING INFECTED BECAUSE THEY MAY COME HOME AND POTENTIALLY KILL THEIR GRANDPARENTS.

MOST OF THE ELDERLY POPULATION IS VACCINATED.

THE HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE DOWN.

I AM NOT SLOUGHING OFF THE INFECTION RATE, BUT THE ENDGAME OF THE SERIOUSNESS IS LESS THAN WHAT IT WAS.

YOU HAVE SOME YOUNGER PEOPLE GETTING -- THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE VARIANTS -- THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE VARIANTS, THAT IT WOULD OVERRUN THE STATE.

THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

I APPRECIATE YOUR CAUTION ON THAT.

KEITH, YOU CAN JUMP IN.

THE WORRY LAST YEAR WAS THE HOSPITALIZATIONS AND KILLING OLDER PEOPLE, WE HAVE VACCINATED THAT POPULATION.

KEITH: I TEND TO AGREE WITH DAVE THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO BE CAUTIOUS.

LET'S NOT FORGET THIS WAS A WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC OF DEVASTATING PROPORTIONS.

I THINK WE NEED TO MANAGE OURSELVES STEP-BY-STEP AND WE NEED MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY AND RESEARCH TO GUIDE OUR DECISIONS AS WE GO FORWARD.

THERE NEW STRAINS AND VARIOUS IS -- NEW STRAINS AND VARIANCE -- AND VARIANTS AS WE SPEAK.

THERE ARE BOOSTER SHOTS FOR THOSE OF US THAT HAVE BEEN VACCINATED FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.

DO NOT MISTAKE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS WITH CIVIL LIBERTIES.

WE'RE LOOKING TO PRESERVE CIVIL-RIGHTS WHICH INCLUDE ALL AMERICANS OF ALL CLASSES OF ALL AGE GROUPS.

THIS IS A HEALTH CRISIS THAT REQUIRES A CIVIL LIBERTY APPROACH THAT PROVIDES A BALANCED SYSTEM FOR ALL.

DONNA: I WOULD AGREE BUT I WOULD NOTE THAT THIS IS WHERE I THINK THE ARGUMENT IS STILL GETTING A LITTLE MUDDLED.

I WOULD PUT PART OF THE BLAME ON THE COMMUNICATION COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

THE VACCINE IS THE GAME CHANGER.

THAT IS WHAT WE DID NOT HAVE 12 MONTHS AGO.

I THINK THERE HAS BEEN MISCOMMUNICATION ON THE POWER OF THE VACCINE.

HERE'S WHAT I AM SAYING, IF SOMEONE IS OUT AND THEY'RE FULLY VACCINATED, YOU CANNOT BE INFECTED BY ANOTHER PERSON.

IF THERE IS MORE RISK?

YES.

VIRUSES WILL EXIST ON EARTH FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES AND BEYOND.

IF THERE IS MORE RISK?

YES.

IS THERE A RISK SOMEONE COULD KNOCK YOUR CAR OFF THE NEWPORT BRIDGE WHEN YOU DRIVE HOME?

YES.

BUT THE VACCINE IS THE GAME CHANGER AND I THINK THIS IDEA THAT WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH THE SUMMER WITH THE SAME CAUTION AS BEFORE I THINK IS MISSING THIS VERY DISTINCT DIFFERENCE FROM WHAT WAS OCCURRING 10 OR 12 MONTHS AGO.

ON VACCINATED PEOPLE, I WILL AGREE WITH YOU.

IN MY VIEW, THEY ARE TAKING THEIR OWN RISK AT THIS POINT.

I FEEL THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO NEVER GET A FLU SHOT, THEY NEVER GET MEDICAL CARE.

THAT IS A VERY DANGEROUS WAY TO LIVE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE.

I SEE IT LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK THAT IS THE POINT OF THE VACCINES.

WHAT IF VACCINE MEANS IS YOU ARE NOT COLLATED.

WHEN THEY DID -- YOU ARE INOCULATED.

WHEN THEY DID THE POLIO VACCINE, PEOPLE DID NOT WORRY THEIR CHILD WOULD GET POLIO.

TO GO FORWARD AT THIS POINT -- THAT IS WHY YOU ARE SEEING MAYORS OF NEW YORK, THEY WERE CAUTIOUS.

THEY KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE A VACCINATED POPULATION, THE GAME HAS CHANGED.

I THINK YOU JUST HAVE TO GO FORWARD.

I DON'T THINK THERE ARE INTERNATIONAL FLIGHTS COMING IN EVERYWHERE.

I THINK THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE, YOU CANNOT JUST FLY OVER FROM ANYWHERE RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THERE WAS A CAUTION ABOUT INTERNATIONAL TRAVEL IN TERMS OF OUR VISITORS COMING TO NEWPORT FREELY.

I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT RIGHT NOW.

JIM: THE OTHER THING I WOULD ASK DAVE AND KEITH, AND I DON'T MEAN TO PAINT THIS AS JIM AND DONNA AGAINST DAVE AND KEITH, BUT THE VACCINE -- I HAVE THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT THIS.

WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT GETTING THE VACCINE?

IS IT LAZINESS?

IS IT HESITANCY?

YOU HAVE TO GIVE PEOPLE AN INCENTIVE.

YOU HEAR EVERYONE WILL BE VACCINATED BUT OUR KIDS WILL STILL HAVE TO WEAR MASKS GOING BACK TO SCHOOL IN THE FALL.

WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE THEN FOR PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND GET IT IF IT WILL BE THE SAME WAY AS IT ALWAYS WAS?

EITHER OF YOU CAN TAKE THAT.

I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS A LOT.

WIRING NOT GETTING TO BE 70% OR 75% PEOPLE VACCINATED.

KEITH: I WASN'T SUGGESTING WE NOT REOPEN, THAT WAS NOT MY POINT.

MY POINT WAS THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL THAT WE DON'T OVERDO THIS.

SOME OF THE CITIES WE TALK ABOUT, NEW YORK AND OTHERS HAVE GONE THROUGH THESE LOOPS WHERE THINGS WERE LOOKING MUCH BETTER, RESTRICTIONS WERE PULLED OFF, AND THEN SUDDENLY THEY ARE BACK IN THE GAME AND THEY HAVE TO IMPOSE MORE RESTRICTIONS AGAIN.

I REALIZE THE GAME CHANGER HAS BEEN THE VACCINATIONS.

OVER HALF OF ADULTS ARE NOW VACCINATED WHICH IS A GOOD SIGN.

I WAS OFFERING THIS CAUTIONARY NOTE THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL IN OUR EXUBERANCE TO GET BACK TO NORMAL.

WHICH I FULLY SUPPORT.

WE JUST HAVE TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO CAVE IN ALTOGETHER BECAUSE THIS COULD COME BACK TO HAUNT US.

THIS IS STILL A MYSTERY ILLNESS TO SOME EXTENT AND I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE US GO THROUGH THIS ALL OVER AGAIN OR THROUGH SOME LEVEL OF THIS ALL OVER AGAIN AND SAY DIDN'T WE LEARN FROM THE THIS OR DO IT BETTER?

JIM: KEITH, I WILL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

KEITH: MY QUESTION IS ON THE IMPACT OF POPULATIONS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE EFFECT ON POPULATIONS, IT IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN, LATINO, URBAN PEOPLE.

IRONICALLY, THOSE ARE THE SAME POPULATIONS THAT ARE PART OF OUR SERVICE INDUSTRIES.

MY CONCERN IS HEALTH AND SAFETY FIRST AND THEN THE ECONOMY COMES BACK.

EVERYTHING WE CAN DO TO SUPPORT THOSE COMMUNITIES TO DELIVER VACCINES AND HEALTH INFORMATION TO THOSE HIGHLY IMPACTED POPULATIONS WILL BENEFIT THOSE POPULATIONS FIRST AND THE LARGE ECONOMY SECOND.

THEY GO HAND-IN-HAND.

JIM: GO AHEAD, DONNA.

DONNA: I JUST WANT TO SAY, AND I THINK HE WILL CHANGE WHAT HE SAID, I THINK IT WAS PREMATURE FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE TO ANNOUNCE WHAT IS -- TO ANNOUNCE HOW SCHOOLS WILL LOOK NEXT FALL.

I THINK THIS IS A VERY FLUID SITUATION AT THIS POINT.

I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER GOVERNORS SAYING THAT AND THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM BAKER.

HE IS TALKING ABOUT MANDATING VACCINES FOR 12 TO 15-YEAR-OLDS.

I THINK YOU MIGHT SEE MORE MOMENTUM FOR THAT.

I DO GET IS PREMATURE TO SAY WE WILL HAVE MASKED CHILDREN BY THE FALL.

WE WILL SEE.

JIM: LET'S DO OUTRAGES.

DO YOU HAVE ANY OUTRAGE OR A KUDO?

DAVE: THERE IS A MOVE FOR THE LAW OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS.

I HAVE SEEN OTHER CITIES AND OTHER STATES OPERATE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK THE RHODE ISLAND LAW OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS IS PROBABLY THE MOST FAVORABLE TO POLICE OF ANY IN THE COUNTRY OR CLOSE TO THAT.

I THINK IT IS TIME THIS BE REVISITED.

POLICE CHIEFS HAVE THEIR HANDS TIED WHEN IT COMES TO ANY OFFICER WHO MAY BE SUSPECTED OF HAVING BROKEN THE LAW HIMSELF IN THE COURSE OF DOING HIS WORK.

THIS IS LONG OVERDUE.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD THROW EVERYTHING OUT.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THE BILL, BUT I CAN TELL YOU IT IS WEIGHTED TOO HEAVILY ON THE POLICE OFFICERS, ALLOWING THEM TO HAVE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES WELL ABOVE AND BEYOND WITH THE AVERAGE CITIZEN WOULD HAVE.

I THINK IT IS TIME THE POLICE CHIEFS SHOULD BE ABLE TO HOLD THEIR OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE AND IT -- HOLD THEIR OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE IN A MORE FLUID WAY.

WE EXPECT CHIEFS TO RUN THEIR DEPARTMENTS.

THE LAW OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS TAKES AWAY FROM THEM.

I THINK IT IS A BIG MISTAKE.

I THINK THESE STORIES ABOUT POLICE BRUTALITY, I THINK THEY UNDERSCORE THE POINTS I'M TRYING TO MAKE.

JIM: KEITH, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

KEITH: IT IS A KUDO.

DESPITE THESE SHUTS DOWN -- DESPITE THESE SHUTDOWNS AND COVID, NEXT WEEK AND NUMBER OF RHODE ISLAND HIGH SCHOOLS ARE COMPETING IN THE FIRST WIND TURBINE DESIGN COMPETITION AND THEY ARE DOING IT ALL VIRTUALLY.

JUST WATCHING THESE KIDS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS WORK ON THIS VIRTUALLY, NOT ABLE TO HAVE PHYSICAL CONTACT OR EVEN GET TO THEIR SCHOOLS IS A TRIBUTE TO THEIR RESILIENCY.

WATCHING YOUNG PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY DO IN WHAT IS ONE OF THE FASTEST-GROWING INDUSTRIES, IT IS EXCITING.

WE HAVE A BRIGHT FUTURE WITH OUR RHODE ISLAND SCHOOLS.

JIM: DONNA, WHAT DO YOU HAVE.

DONNA: I HAVE ANY OUTRAGE ABOUT THIS MUDDLED NONDECISION DECISION FROM FACEBOOK WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE A COMMUNICATION COMPANY AND THIS AWKWARD BORE THINK THAT GOT ROLLED OUT.

DAVE, YOU ARE A LONGTIME PUBLIC RELATIONS EXPERT.

TO ME, THEY CREATED FOR THEMSELVES A NEW PUBLIC RELATIONS DISASTER BY HAVING AN OVERSIGHT BOARD.

HIGH-PITCHED AND WAITED, THEY MAKE THIS BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.

IT IS A NONDECISION DECISION, THEY ESSENTIALLY PITCHED IT BACK TO MARK ZUCKERBERG WHICH I THINK IS NOTABLE.

I DO NOT PERSONALLY CARE IF DONALD TRUMP EVER GETS BACK ON FACEBOOK, THAT IS NOT WHERE MY OUTRAGE IS ABOUT.

THIS IS A PRIVATE COMPANY THAT ESSENTIALLY IS CONTROLLING THE COMMUNICATION OF THE PLANET.

THEY HAVE ONE BILLION PLUS USERS.

IT IS HOW MOST PEOPLE COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER AND EXCHANGE INFORMATION AND PUT OUT INFORMAION.

ALL OF THESE PRIVATE GROUPS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

THE COMPANY IS NOT ABLE TO CLEARLY COMMUNICATE AT ALL.

SHOULD THEY BE IN CHARGE OF THE SENATE'S DESK OF THE PLANET -- IN CHARGE OF THE PLANET'S COMMUNICATION?

NOW THEY DRAG IT ON AND TRUMP CAN BE A MARTYR AND SAY HE IS BEING DENIED FREE SPEECH.

THEN YOU SAW PROGRESSIVES ON TWITTER SAYING #DELETEFACEBOOK BECAUSE THEY WERE MAD THEY COULD NOT REACH A DECISION.

THEY WANT TO TRUMP BANNED FOREVER, THE CONSERVATIVES THINK IT IS A FREE SPEECH ISSUE, AND IT IS DEAF AND EVERYBODY IS ANGRY.

-- AND EVERYBODY IS ANGRY.

IT WAS AND THE ODD SET OF ANSWERS AND THEY WERE CRITICIZING TUCKER BERG.

-- DECIDING MARK ZUCKERBERG.

-- AND CRITICIZING MARK THEY FUNCTION LIKE A NETWORK, A MOVIE STUDIO, A NEWSPAPER.

THEY ARE RADIO NEWS, THEY ARE RADIO NEWS, THERE EVERYTHING WRAPPED INTO ONE.

THEY ARE THE BIGGEST DOG ON THE PLANET AND THEY ARE NOT REALLY REGULATED AND THEY OPERATE IN A LOT OF SECRECY.

I THINK THIS NON-DECISION SHOWS THAT.

JIM: DAVE, WE HAVE ONE MINUTE LEFT.

WHAT ABOUT DONNA SAID AND THE WAY THEY HANDLED IT?

DAVE: I AGREE WITH DONNA.

THIS HAS BECOME A MUDDLED MESS.

MAYBE AN OPTIMIST COULD SAY AT LEAST THE BOARD WHICH IS AN INDEPENDENT SUPREME COURT-LIKE FUNCTION AT LEAST SAID TO MARK ZUCKERBERG YOU HAVE TO MAKE THIS A LOT CLEARER FOR EVERYBODY.

ONE POINT THE COMMENTATORS DEBATE IS IF YOU TAKE TRUMP OFF, WHICH I AM GLAD HE IS OFF BUT THERE IS THE MEDIA RIGHTS THAT I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT AND FIRST AMENDMENT SPEECH THAT HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT HE WANTS.

I AM TROUBLED BY THAT.

I HAVE NOT COME TO TERMS WITH THAT MYSELF YET.

I WILL SAY THIS, THEY HAVE AT LEAST TAKEN IT ON.

THIS WHOLE THING IS NEW, IT IS LIKE A PANDEMIC.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE FACEBOOK.

IT IS WITH THE POWERFUL.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL ALLOWED TO SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT TO SAY AND THEY ARE ENEMIES OF THE COUNTRY.

THEY LIE, CHEAT, AND STEAL.

THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENTIATION I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH.

JIM: FOLKS, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

IF YOU WANT TO STICK WITH THIS, WE ARE GOING TO DO OUR SPECIAL ONLINE BONUS EXTRA.

GO TO RIPBS.COM/LIVELY AND YOU CAN SEE US CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION AND ON OTHER TOPICS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

♪ >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED ANALYSIS FOR ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDRS.