THIS WEEK, A PACKED WEEK AT A GENERAL ASSEMBLY WITH A BUDGET REFILL AT THE HOUSE AND CONTROVERSIAL GUN BILLS MOVING THROUGH BOTH CHAMBERS.

THE JANUARY SIX COMMITTEE BEGINS ITS HEARINGS IN PRIMETIME, BUT WHO IS WATCHING?

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US ON THE PANEL, BILLY HUNT CHAIRMAN OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF RHODE ISLAND.

POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR WENDY SCHILLER AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE JOE TRILLO HELLO.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

IF YOU ARE HOPING FOR A REDUCTION OF THE SALES TAX, YOU WERE DISAPPOINTED ON THURSDAY.

BUT THERE IS GOOD NEWS IF YOU OWN A NEWER CAR, HAVE DEPENDENT CHILDREN, OVERSEE -- OR RECEIVE A MILITARY PENSION.

THERE WILL BE TAX RELIEF FOR ALL OF YOU.

IT IS PART OF A $13.6 BILLION PROPOSED BUDGET RELEASED BY THE HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE FOR NEXT YEAR.

LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU, JOE.

YOU AND I WERE TALKING BEFORE.

WHEN YOU STARTED THE LEGISLATURE, IT WAS ABOUT HALF THAT AMOUNT.

JOE: IT WAS ABOUT HALF THAT AMOUNT.

EVERY YEAR, IT CONSISTENTLY WENT UP UNTIL HE KEPT BREAKING THE BARRIER EVERY YEAR.

IT WAS GOING UP AT LEAST $500 MILLION A YEAR AND NOW THEY ARE UP TO $13.5 BILLION.

JIM: A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT WHERE IS THE BIG THING.

MAYBE A SALES TAX REDUCTION BY ONE POINT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS BUDGET?

JOE: THE GOOD THING THAT IS COMING OUT OF THIS BUDGET IS THE ELIMINATION OF THE TAX.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT LONG ENOUGH AND I AM HAPPY TO SEE THAT THEY ARE TAKING THE EXTRA MONEY THAT WE HAVE TODAY.

IN MY RUN AS A STATE REP, WE NEVER HAD A SURPLUS.

THEY HAVE ALMOST A TWO DOLLAR SURPLUS THAT THEY ARE PLAYING WITH AND A LOT OF IT -- THEY HAVE ALMOST A $2 BILLION SO URPLUS THAT THEY'RE PLAYING WITH.

NOW THEY HAVE ALL OF THIS MONEY.

TO GET RID OF THE TAX WAS A SUBSTANTIAL EXPENSE IF YOU DID NOT HAVE THE MONEY, BUT WE HAVE IT AND I'M GLAD TO SEE IT HAPPEN.

WENDY: I KNOW THAT SO MUCH OF OUR BUDGET IS PASSED THROUGH WHICH MEANS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REIMBURSES US OR GIVES US MONEY AHEAD OF TIME AND WE DO HAVE A FAIRLY LARGE RANGE OF PROGRAMS TO SUPPORT SO THAT IS ONE THING.

I HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED WHY THIS BUDGET KEEPS GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER.

WE DID NOT ACTUALLY GROW IN POPULATION THE WAY THAT THE SENSES FIRST THOUGHT WE DID.

IF WE ARE NOT EXPANDING AT GREAT LENGTH IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE, WHY ARE WE $500 MILLION, WHATEVER IT IS, WE HAVE AN ENORMOUS BUDGET FOR A SMALL STATE.

NEBRASKA HAS HALF OF OUR BUDGET.

SLIGHTLY FEWER PEOPLE, BUT HALF OF OUR BUDGET AND THEY SEEM TO BE DOING FINE.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY WE HAVE TO HAVE A HUGE BUDGET.

JOE: REMEMBER SITTING WITH GOVERNOR SUNUNU OVER THE PAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS, HE IS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

HE SAID TO ME IF I EVER HAD YOUR BUDGET, WE WOULD REALLY BE ABLE TO DO SOME GREAT THINGS.

THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, THEY HAD A $6.5 BILLION BUDGET IN A MUCH BIGGER STATE.

HOW DO THEY DO IT?

THEY DO NOT HAVE THE ONGOING EXPENSES TO TAKE CARE OF.

IT GETS VERY EXPENSIVE.

BILLY: I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A THIRD PLUS OF ALMOST $1 BILLION, BUT THIS IS $700 MILLION MORE THAN THE GOVERNOR ASKED FOR.

BILLY: THE BUDGET GROWS EVERY YEAR.

THE GOVERNMENT SPENDING INCREASES EVERY YEAR AND THAT MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE.

A LOT OF THAT IS PASSED THROUGH BUT EVEN IF IT IS COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, IT IS STILL COMING FROM THE TAXPAYERS MONEY.

WE HAVE A HUGE SURPLUS GOING INTO THIS BUDGET YEAR AND WE ARE GETTING A BONE THROWN BACK TO US.

NOT TO MENTION THE COVID RELIEF MONEY THEY ARE SITTING ON.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF CREATIVE BUDGETING WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN MOVING FUNDS AROUND AND FILLING HOLES WITH THE SURPLUS MONEY THEY ARE GETTING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

REALLY THE CAR TAX WAS GOING TO BE PHASED OUT ANYWAY.

REALISTICALLY, THAT IS A BAILOUT FOR THE LARGER MUNICIPALITIES AND CITIES WHO HAVE A HIGHER TAX RATE AND CONSTITUTES A LARGER PORTION OF THEIR BUDGET.

CITIES LIKE PROVIDENCE AND CENTRAL FALLS ARE GETTING A BIG BAILOUT WHEREAS MORE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE COMMUNITIES, IT IS NOT AS BIG OF A RELIEF.

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT A CHILDREN'S TAX CREDIT OF $250.

BIG DEAL.

THE COST OF RAISING A CHILD IS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE IN THIS NEW JIM: STOP YOUR COMPLAINING.

YOU'RE GETTING $250.

BILLY: THAT IS NOT COVER THE WEEK OF THE CARE I LOST BECAUSE OF THE INCOMPETENCE OF THE STATE RUNNING THE TESTING SAID TO -- TESTING SYSTEM.

IT IS A DROP IN THE BUCKET.

IT DOES NOT MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR THE AVERAGE EVERYDAY TAXPAYER.

THAT IS WHO IS BEING LEFT OUT IN THIS ENTIRE SITUATION IS THE INDIVIDUALS WHO WENT TO WORK EVERYDAY DURING THE PANDEMIC WHO REALLY HAVE NOT GOTTEN AHEAD DURING THIS TIME, BUT THE COST OF LIVING HAS GONE UP EXPONENTIALLY DURING THIS TIME AND THEY ARE GETTING BEHIND.

JIM: WE SEEM FLUSH WITH MONEY BUT YOU WONDER IF GUYS LIKE JOSEPH WILL BE THERE FOR LONG.

WHETHER THEY SEE THE STORM CLOUDS ON THE ARISING AND DOING SOMETHING LIKE THE SALES TAX IS SO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGING THAT THEY MAY REGRET THAT.

CERTAINLY THEY DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO ADD IT ON BUT EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE GREAT TIMES, I SENSE A LITTLE BIT OF HESITATION.

WENDY: CERTAINLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE STOCK MARKET AND PROJECTIONS OF A MILD RECESSION ON THE HORIZON, THAT IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT.

IT IS PSYCHOLOGY.

IF YOU CUT THE GAS TAX OR YOU CUT THE SALES TAX AND YOU TRY TO PUT IT BACK, IT IS MUCH MORE PAINFUL.

PEOPLE SAY IT COST MORE MONEY AGAIN.

I WOULD RATHER SLAP A TAX ON GAS COMPANIES AND GAS PRICES GO UP WITHOUT ANY EXPLANATION.

YOU MAKE UP THE NEXT DAY, IT IS 25 SINCE MORE AT THE PUMP.

WHAT ABOUT THE GAS COMPANIES AND THE OIL COMPANIES AND THE LEGISLATORS WHO TAKE CONTRIBUTIONS FROM GAS COMPANIES?

WHO IS MAKING MONEY OFF OF HIGHER GAS PRICES?

NOT THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

THE GAS TAX THAT FUNDS ARE ROADS AND BRIDGES.

HOW DO THEY GET AWAY WITH IT AT I DID NOT UNDERSTAND.

JOE: THAT IS A PROBLEM THAT SHOULD BE DEALT WITH AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

THEY SHOULD HAVE A COMMISSION MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE NOT BEING GOUGED BY THE BIG OIL COMPANIES, WHICH I'M SURE WE ARE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHOULD HAVE COME OUT OF THIS BUDGET THAT NOBODY EVER TALKED ABOUT, IT IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR PROBLEM THIS COMING WINTER, AND THAT IS HOME HEATING ASSISTANCE.

THEY SHOULD HAVE PUT AT LEAST $10 MILLION, $50 MILLION MORE -- JIM: WHICH IS A RELATIVELY SMALL AMOUNT.

WENDY: THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS CUT SPENDING.

JOE: PEOPLE WHO WERE PAYING $2.50 OR THREE DOLLARS PER GALLON WILL BE PAYING SIX DOLLARS OR SEVEN DOLLARS.

IT COULD BE DEVASTATING.

IT COULD END UP COSTING PEOPLE TO HEAT A HOUSE 2000 OR $3000 PER MONTH.

WENDY: ESPECIALLY SENIORS WHO MAY BE OLDER WITH HOUSES THAT HAVE OIL FURNACES.

BILLY: THE FACT THAT THE OIL COMPANIES ARE RAKING IN THESE HUGE PROFITS AND THAT IS WHAT IS DRIVING THE COST OF GAS.

WHAT MADE THEM DECIDE THAT THEY WILL START RAISING PRICES TODAY AS OPPOSED TO TWO YEARS AGO?

IF ANYTHING, IT HAS THE COVER OF THE MISMANAGEMENT OF THE FOR POLICY AND THE PHYSICAL POLICY BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THIS ADMINISTRATION THAT GAVE THEM THE COVER TO DO THIS.

THE CONSUMPTION AND THE SUPPLY OF GASOLINE DURING THIS WHOLE ENTIRE TIME HAS CONTINUED TO RISE.

IT IS NOT A SUPPLY-SIDER ISSUE.

IT IS A DEMAND-SIDE ISSUE.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT -- THE COST OF EVERYTHING IS GOING UP AND IT IS THE RESULT OF THE FINANCIAL POLICY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, NOT THE OIL COMPANIES DECIDED THAT THEY WILL ALL OF A SUDDEN MAKE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PROFITS PETER JOE: I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED AT A FEDERAL LEVEL IS EGREGIOUS.

THIS PRESIDENT HAS TAKEN OVER.

HE SHUT DOWN THE PIPELINE.

HE IS CANCELING CONTRACTS FOR DRILLING AND THEY ARE BASICALLY BRINGING OUR COUNTRY TO ITS KNEES BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SELL ELECTRIC VEHICLES OF WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE A GRID THAT CAN HANDLE THE TRAGIC -- HANDLE THE CHARGING STATIONS.

WE NEED TO MAKE A SLOWER PROGRESSION TOWARDS BECOMING ALL ELECTRIC OR WHATEVER THEIR MIND IS THINKING WE SHOULD DO.

AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THAT IS THE DRIVING FACTOR BEHIND THE COST OF ALL OF THE FUEL, THE GAS, AND THE OIL GOING UP IS THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAS HELD IT BACK BECAUSE THEY WANT TO TEACH US THAT WE NEED TO GO GREEN.

WENDY: HE IS NOT HOLDING BACK.

PART OF THAT, I AGREE WITH YOU.

I THINK THAT THE RUSH TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES IS AN ELITE PRIVILEGE BECAUSE I LIVE IN A HOUSING STOCK WHICH I COULD NOT CHARGE AN ELECTRIC CAR.

I AGREE WITH YOU.

JOE: THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.

WENDY: GAS PRICES ARE UP.

MORE POLITICAL MALPRACTICE THAN WE HAVE EVER SEEN BEFORE, EVEN UNDER JIMMY CARTER, TO PURPOSELY MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT.

I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE PUSH HAS NOT COME WITH THE KINDS OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE NEED FOR MOST AMERICANS TO BE ABLE TO USE ELECTRIC.

BOTH CIAMPA AND BIDEN, PARTICULARLY AN UNEMPLOYMENT BONUS THAT CONTINUED WE DID NOT NEED IT.

ALSO THE EXTRA CASH PAYMENT THAT CONTINUED AND THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

JEROME POWELL DID NOT WANT TO GET FIRED BY DONALD TRUMP SO HE DID NOT RAISE INTEREST RATES AND THEN HE WAITED WAY TOO LONG.

BOTH OF THESE ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE CREATED MUCH TOO MUCH FISCAL STIMULUS AND NOT ENOUGH RAINING IT IN.

JOE: TROUT DID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC WHEN IT WAS SOMEWHAT NECESSARY.

WENDY: AND RIGHT AT THE VERY END RIGHT BEFORE REELECTION.

MOST POLITICIANS WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING.

JOE: IT WAS UNNECESSARY FOR BIDEN TO CONTINUE DOING IT.

HE WOULD LIKE TO DO ANOTHER $2 TRILLION, WHICH WOULD KILL US.

BILLY: THEY WERE BOTH IRRESPONSIBLE AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE RESERVE CURRENCY OF OIL IS THE U.S. DOLLAR.

AS THE DOLLAR FALLS AGAINST THE DESERVED CURRENCY, IT SHOWS THAT WE HAVE INFLATION AND THAT THE MONEY HAS CREATED 99% OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE STIMULUS UNDERGOES TRUMP AND BIDEN HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THAT AND THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE.

THEY CANNOT STEP ON THE ACCELERATOR AND THE BREAK AT THE SAME TIME.

THE ONLY RECOURSE IS TO RAISE INTEREST RATES.

JIM: WE WILL GET BACK TO NATIOAL STUFF IN A MINUTE.

THE OTHER BIG ISSUE AT THE STATE HOUSE IS GUN LEGISLATION, WHICH IS A PERENNIAL ISSUE.

THIS YEAR THE HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE HAS PASSED THREE MAJOR BILLS.

ONE WOULD RAISE THE AGE OF BUYING FIREARMS FROM 18 TO 21.

THE OTHER WOULD LIMIT THE MAGAZINE CAPACITY.

JOE CAN GIVE US ALL THE DETAILS ON THE GUNS BECAUSE I KNOW YOU KNOW ABOUT ALL OF THIS LEGISLATION.

LET ME ASK YOU, LET ME START WITH WENDY.

THIS IS SOMETHING FOR YEARS WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET FORWARD.

EVERYTHING GOING ON WITH UVALDE.

THE GUN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS WILL BE VERY UPSET WITH THIS.

ARE YOU SURPRISED IT HAS GOTTEN TO THIS POINT?

IT LOOKS LIKE THESE BILLS WILL PASS THE HOUSE.

WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE SENATE.

WENDY: IT WAS INTERESTING.

WHAT YOU COULD ARGUE IS A LEFTIST CENTRAL POSITION ON SUPPORTING GUN MEASURES.

IT SHOWS HE HAS A COMPETITIVE PRIMARY AND THAT WAS A BIG MOVER, A KATEY SAGAL -- A KEY SIGNAL.

THE IDEA OF BEING SUPPORTIVE AND TAKING ACTION RIGHT NOW ON GUNS, IT STARTED THAT CONVERSATION.

THE SECOND THING IS, ALMOST 40 YEARS AGO WE RAISE THE DRINKING AGE FROM 18 TO 21 BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT 18 EUROS ON THE ROAD IN VEHICLES WHEN THEY ARE DRINKING.

WE DID NOT THINK THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO DO THAT.

THAT IS WHY THE DRINKING AGE IS 21.

ALL I WOULD ASK FOR IS THE SAME PRINCIPAL WITH ASSAULT WITH AR 15'S.

YOU KNOW ABOUT GUNS MORE THAN I DO BUT ASSAULT WEAPONS, LET'S TAKE THE SAME PRINCIPAL WITH ALCOHOL AND CARS AND DO IT TO GUNS FOR PEOPLE UNDER THE AGE OF 21.

JOE: THIS ARGUMENT ABOUT GUNS ALWAYS COMES UP WHENEVER THERE IS A CATASTROPHE.

THE OPPOSITION WILL SAY WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS CREATING THE PROBLEM.

IT IS THE PEOPLE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN TEXAS WITH THE MASS SHOOTING IN THE SCHOOL AND YOU FIND OUT THAT THE POLICE NEVER WENT IN FOR OVER ONE HOUR AND 15 MINUTES WHILE THE KIDS WERE BEING SLAUGHTERED, IT AFFECTS EVERYBODY TO THEIR CORE AND PEOPLE THINK THAT THE ONLY SOLUTION IS LET'S MAKE STRONGER LAWS.

STRONGER LAWS ONLY GET LISTENED LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS.

PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COMMIT CRIMES, THEY DO NOT CARE.

BILLY: IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, AND I AGREE WITH YOU.

IN THIS CASE, THE KID BOUGHT THE WEAPON ON HIS 18TH BIRTHDAY.

NO WAITING PERIOD.

THE NEXT ONE IN OKLAHOMA, IT WAS THREE HOURS LATER.

JOE: I AM NOT ARGUING WITH YOU THAT IT CANNOT BE RAISED TO 21.

THAT IS NOT A BIG DEAL ARGUMENT.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THIS IS REALISTICALLY GOING TO HELP.

IT IS NOT GOING TO HELP ANYTHING.

BILLY: IT WOULD HAVE HELPED IN THAT SITUATION.

JOE: THAT ONE SITUATION.

BILLY: THAT ONE SITUATION WHERE 20 KIDS ARE DEAD.

JOE: WHY DON'T WE ADDRESS THE CAUSE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE LET MENTAL HEALTH PEOPLE ON THE STREET WALK AROUND.

BILLY: THAT IS THE DEFAULT POSITION, MENTAL HEALTH.

WENDY: REALLY QUICKLY, I AGREE WITH JOE.

WE ARE OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT STARTING IN THE 1960'S THERE WAS A WHOLESALE POLICY TO LET PEOPLE WITHOUT -- THE PEOPLE OUT WITHOUT ANY SERVICES.

THAT IS A FAILING.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN YOU WERE 18 VERSUS 21, MAY A FEW MORE YEARS, IN OKLAHOMA, THAT PERSON BOUGHT A GUN AT 2:00 P.M. AND KILL PEOPLE THREE HOURS LATER.

JUST A WAITING PERIOD.

THESE ARE REASONABLE MEASURES.

BILLY: I HAVE HEARD ALL THE GUN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS.

YOU ARE CHIPPING AWAY AT MY RIGHT.

YOU WILL TAKE AWAY MY GUN.

THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO.

JOE: A LITTLE BIT AT A TIME, YOU ARE GETTING THERE.

EVERY TIME THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS DONE WITH THE GUN, PEOPLE WANT TO GET THAT FEEL-GOOD LEGISLATION OUT THERE.

LET'S FEEL-GOOD.

WE MADE ANOTHER LAW THAT WILL RESTRICT GUN USE AND DOES NOT WORK.

WENDY: THEY HAVE NOT DONE ENOUGH OF THE LOSS TO KNOW IT IS GOING TO WORK.

BILLY: WE NEED TO DECIDE WHAT THE AGE OF AN ADULT IS.

IS IT 18 OR 21?

THE IDEA THAT WE ARE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT AND TRYING TO MAKE THIS DISTINCTION, LET'S MOVE THE AGE OF AN ADULT TO 21.

IT WAS A DIFFERENT LIFE WHEN THEY DECIDED THAT BACK IN THE DAY.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE 16 LOADING, BUT THAT IS ANOTHER ARGUMENT.

APPROACH THIS FROM A DIFFERENT LEVEL, WHY SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON VIOLENCE?

WHY SHOULD THEY BE THE ONLY ONES WHO ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE THESE TYPES OF FIREARMS?

WE SPENT THE LAST TWO YEARS LEARNING THAT POLICE, YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE SHOT IN A MASS SHOOTING AND WE WILL HAVE THEM TAKE THE GUNS AWAY FROM LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS AND GIVE THEM THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO HAVE THESE WEAPONS AND TO TYRANIZE THE EVERYDAY POPULATION?

IT IS NOT A FEASIBLE SOLUTION.

THE COMMONSENSE GUN LEGISLATION THEY ARE COMING UP WITH IS EFFECTIVELY NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM.

WENDY: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

WE HAVE NOT DONE IT YET.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT IT DOES NOT HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

BILLY: IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE THING THAT THEY CAME UP WITH, THE HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINE, I CAN KILL 10 PEOPLE WITH 10 BULLETS.

IF YOU GO AHEAD AND YOU HAVE OPEN CARRY LEGISLATION, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THAT WAS A PROBLEM WHERE THERE ARE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND RHODE ISLAND AND HAVING SUCCULENT -- HAVING SHOTGUNS?

IF IT IS AN ISSUE, THE REASON WHY IT IS HAPPENING IS BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT IS TEAR IN ICING THE PEOPLE AND TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS.

IT IS A VIOLATION OF ILLEGAL SEARCH AND SEIZURE.

THE WORST PART IS IT IS SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT.

NOW YOU HAVE A FELONY.

BORE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST AFFECTED BY MINIMUM SENTENCES?

POOR AND MINORITY PEOPLE.

THE POLICE WILL NOT PROTECT PROPERTY IN LOW INCOME AREAS.

THEY HAVE GIVEN UP AND YOU HAVE TAKEN AWAY THE ABILITY FOR LOW INCOME AND MINORITY PEOPLE TO PROTECT THEIR HOMES.

WENDY: THESE ARE WIDESPREAD GENERALIZATIONS.

BILLY: ONE IN FOUR MINORITIES OWN A GUN.

WENDY: LEGALLY.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOT LETTING PEOPLE OWN A GUN LEGALLY.

JUST MAKE SURE THAT 18 EUROS CANNOT GET AN ASSAULT WEAPON.

-- JUST MAKE SURE THAT 18-YEAR-OLDS CANNOT GET AN ASSAULT WEAPON.

BILLY: A NINE MILLIMETERS PISTOL HAS MORE -- WENDY: I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO TO A MOVIE THEATER AND A GROCERY STORE AND KIDS GO TO SCHOOL AND BE TERRIFIED OF BEING SHOT TO DEATH.

IF WE TRY THEM AND THEY DO NOT WORK, THEN YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT.

THESE ARE ARGUMENTS YOU CAN MAKE.

BUT RAISING THE HP 21 SO AN 18-YEAR-OLD WHO IS FULL OF ANGER -- RAISING THE AGE TO 21 SO THAT AN 18-YEAR-OLD WHO IS FULL OF ANGER -- LET'S SEE IF IT HELPS.

JIM: ARE YOU OK WITH 18 TO 21?

BILLY: IF THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE DECIDED AS A COMMUNITY, I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

JOE: I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

I JUST THINK IT IS A PSYCHOLOGICAL FIX AND I HATE CREATING LAWS THAT DO PSYCHOLOGICAL FIX IS BECAUSE WE DO IT EVERY TIME THERE IS A CATASTROPHE.

EITHER IF IT AFFECTS A CHILD, THE PARENT GET LEGISLATORS INVOLVED, WE HAVE TO HAVE A LAW THAT DOES THIS.

SO WE HAVE ALL THESE LAWS ON THE BOOKS THAT NEVER SOLVE ANY PROBLEMS.

THEY JUST MAKE THE LEGISLATORS FEEL BETTER THAT THEY PASSED THE WALLS.

BILLY: IT IS EMOTIONAL AND INTEGRATED AND NOT QUANTITATIVE DATA.

JIM: WE ARE TAKING FRIDAY MORNING, THURSDAY NIGHT THE JANUARY 6 COMMISSION HELD HIS FIRST PUBLIC HEARINGS -- THE JANUARY 6 COMMISSION HELD ITS FIRST PUBLIC HEARINGS.

THIS IS THE FIRST PRIMETIME PRESENTATION THEY HAVE HAD.

THE LARGER QUESTION IS WITH INFLATION, WITH PRICES, WITH EVERYTHING ELSE IS THIS SOMETHING -- I THOUGHT IT WAS DRAMATIC.

I FELT LIKE IT TIED TOGETHER LOOSE ENDS.

IS THIS WHAT PEOPLE WILL BE CONCENTRATING ON AS WE GO INTO THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS?

BILLY: IT IS A THREE-HOUR PAID COMMERCIAL BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

IT WAS PUT ON AS A COMPLETE SHOW TO DRAG THIS BACK INTO THE HEADLINES BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS ARE SCARED ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM IN THE MIDTERM.

IT IS EXACTLY WHY THEY ARE TRYING TO GALVANIZE AROUND THE ABORTION ISSUE, THE GUN ISSUE, AND NOW THEY ARE BRINGING TRUMP BACK INTO IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO AND THEY ARE TRYING TO DRUM UP THE SUPPORT OF THOSE 80 MILLION VOTERS THAT CAME OUT DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TO MAKE SURE THEY DO NOT STAY HOME DURING THE MIDTERMS.

THERE IS NO NEW INFORMATION THAT CAME OUT OF THE HEARINGS.

IT WAS A BIG NOTHING BURGER.

I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF ANY SUBSTANTIVE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WATCHED IT.

BACK TO THE WHOLE RUN OF LEADING UP TO THIS, THE PRESIDENT GOES ON JIMMY KIMMEL, IT IS SO TRANSPARENT, BEING THE YOUNGER MAN ELIO -- BEING THE YOUNGER MILLENNIAL THAT I AM, I WATCHED IT ON YOUTUBE.

THE RATIO OF VIEWS TO LIKES IS VERY LOW SO I CANNOT IMAGINE THAT ACROSS-THE-BOARD THE APPROVAL RATINGS FOR THIS PRESIDENT IS GOING TO HAVE ANY EFFECT ON MOVING THE NEEDLE.

JOE: FIRST OF ALL, IT WAS A FULL PRODUCTION AND IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE A PRODUCTION, WITH VALUE AS A COMMERCIAL.

LITTLE THINGS LIKE THE FACT THAT THEY DID -- SOUND WAS ADDED TO A LOT OF THE VIDEO.

THAT WAS RIOT SOUND DUBBED IN.

YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT RIGHT AWAY.

IT WAS NOT THE ACTUAL AUDIO OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

THEY DRAMATIZED THAT.

IN THE PRESIDENT SAID, LET'S ALL GO OVER TO THE CAPITAL, THEY EDITED IT AND CUT IT OUT AND THEY DID NOT PUT THAT HE SAID LET'S GO PEACEABLY AND PATRIOTICALLY.

THIS IS THE SAME SENTENCE THAT THIS MAN IS MAKING AND YOU CUT THAT OUT.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT, IT IS A SHAM.

ANYBODY THAT BUYS ANYTHING THAT THEY PRODUCED IN THAT, IT IS A JOKE.

WENDY: I THINK THE ACTIONS OF BOTH DONALD TRUMP AND ALSO THE RIOTERS ON JANUARY 6 ARE INDEFENSIBLE.

IF YOU ARE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP, YOU WILL MAKE THE CLAIM THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT THIS.

I DO NOT DISAGREE THAT INFLATION AND GAS PRICES ARE IMPORTANT.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT JOE BIDEN.

THIS IS ABOUT SIDELINING DONALD TRUMP.

THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE MISS ABOUT THIS STORY.

IT IS FOR REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.

THEY WANT HIM SIDELINED BECAUSE REPUBLICANS BELIEVE HE IS A LIABILITY IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, NOT THE PRIMARY, BUT THE GENERAL AMONGST SUBURBAN VOTERS AND IN 2024.

PEOPLE LIKE RON DESANTIS, I DO NOT THINK THEY ARE HAPPY ABOUT LAST NIGHT AT ALL.

I THINK, DEMOCRATS ARE IN CONTROL.

LIZ CHENEY IS A REPUBLICAN, AMONGST OTHER THINGS.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE LEGACY, YOU THINK ABOUT REPUBLICANS.

THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE MISSING.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT A DECENT PERCENTAGE OF REPUBLICANS WANT TO HAPPEN TOO BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SIDELINE TRUMP.

THEY WANT HIM GONE FROM THE STORY SO THEY CAN TAKE OVER, GOVERN, AND WIN ELECTIONS.

JIM: YOU THINK HE IS A PLAYER?

JOE: HE WILL ALWAYS BE A PLAYER UNTIL HE DECIDES THAT HE IS NOT.

EVERY YEAR, POLITICIANS RUN.

WHAT IS THE FIRST THING THEY PROMISE?

THEY ARE GOING TO CHANGE THINGS.

THEY ARE GOING TO STOP WHAT IS GOING ON IN GOVERNMENT AND THEY WILL SHOW YOU WHAT IS GOING ON AND HOW BAD IT IS AND THEY WILL GO AFTER THE SPECIAL INTERESTS THE COUNTRY AND IN OUR CASE, OUR STATE.

TRUMP DID THAT AND NOBODY WANTED TO SEE THAT BECAUSE IT WAS SO DIRTY AND SO EGREGIOUS, WE FOUND OUT STUFF ABOUT THE FBI AND THE CIA AND ALL OF THE RUSSIA HOAX AND WHAT HILLARY CLINTON PULLED AGAINST THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.

AND YET, PEOPLE ARE STILL BUYING THIS B.S.

BY WATCHING THIS EVENT THAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

JIM: FOR YOU DISTURBED AT ALL BY WHAT HAPPENED?

THAT DAY?

JOE: OF COURSE I AM DISTURBED BY WHAT HAPPENED.

BUT DON'T BLAME WHAT 200 PEOPLE DID.

YOU HAD A GUY TESTIFY YESTERDAY THAT APPROXIMATELY 200 PROPER VOICE WEARING ORANGE HAT -- 200 PROUD BOYS WEARING ORANGE HATS FOR THE FIRST TO GO INTO THE CAPITAL.

BILLY: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER AND I DO NOT THINK IT IS A BIG DEAL.

I DO NOT FIND IT DISTURBING.

IT WAS A BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO STORMED CAPITAL.

IT WAS PEOPLE THAT GOT VIOLENT AND OUT OF HAND AND IT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD CONDONE BY ANY MEANS.

IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED WITH HILLARY CLINTON AND REPORTING TO THE FBI AND PASSING ON THE WHOLE RUSSIAN COLLUSION HOAX AND DISCOUNTING THE 2016 ELECTION WAS JUST AS BAD AS ANY INSURRECTION.

WENDY: ONLY BECAUSE THE INSURRECTIONS FAILED.

IF YOU THINK IT IS NOTHING, IT IS BECAUSE IT FAILED.

JOE: IT WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

WENDY: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

JOE: YOU CANNOT TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT.

WENDY: THEN YOU SHOULD'VE TOLD DONALD TRUMP THAT.

JOE: DONALD TRUMP NEVER TOLD THEM TO CAUSE A RIOT.

WENDY: HE ALSO DID NOT MARCH WITH THEM.

IT DOES NOT MATTER.

BILLY: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

JOE: THEY BURNED POLICE CARS, THEY SHOT AT POLICE AND WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT THAT.

WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT JANUARY 6.

WENDY: THAT'S RIGHT.

BILLY: THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE CAPITAL.

IT IS NOT WASHINGTON, D.C.. WENDY: IT IS INDEFENSIBLE.

IF DONALD TRUMP REALLY BELIEVED IT WAS GOING TO BE PEACEABLE AND IT WAS NAMED EXPRESSION OF OPINION, WHY DIDN'T HE GO WITH THEM?

BILLY: THEY HAD JOINT SESSIONS IN THE HOUSE AND THEY DID NOT HAVE SECURITY?

GIVE ME A BREAK.

THERE WERE A BUNCH OF UNARMED PEOPLE WHO WALKED IN.

GIVE ME A BREAK.

JOE: WHAT ABOUT ALL THE COPS THAT HAVE BEEN BEATEN UP?

BILLY: YOU HAVE A DOCTORATE IN WHAT ABOUT-ISM.

THAT IS A SEPARATE ISSUE.

WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6 AND WHY IT HAPPENED?

THOSE PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY WERE THERE TO GET IN THE WAY OF THE CERTIFICATION.

WENDY: THAT IS WHAT THEY WERE THEREFORE.

BILLY: THEY WERE THERE TO PROTEST.

THEY BELIEVED THAT.

JOE: I DON'T BELIEVE IT.

WENDY: ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT BILLY IS RAISING IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT DID NOT GET ENOUGH ATTENTION LAST NIGHT.

THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH SECURITY AND ENOUGH PREPARATION -- PROTECTION.

DONALD TRUMP HAD THREE HOURS TO CALL IN AS MUCH HELP AS WE COULD GET AND HE DID NOT DO ANYTHING.

IF YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD BE PEACEFUL, WHY DIDN'T HE MARCH WITH THEM AS HE SAID HE WOULD?

I'M RIGHT BEHIND YOU.

JIM: YOU HAVE THE LAST 30 SECONDS.

WE BLEW RIGHT THROUGH OUTRAGEOUS BECAUSE THIS WAS OUTRAGEOUS ENOUGH.

JOE: WHAT YOU ARE WATCHING RIGHT NOW IS ONE MORE ATTEMPT AT TRYING TO KILL TRUMP ONCE AND FOR ALL.

BILLY: SHE WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.

WENDY: NOT LITERALLY, BUT YES.

BILLY: BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS DID NOT DO IT.

JOE: THE DEMOCRATS ARE SO SCARED THAT THEY HAVE SCREWED THIS COUNTRY UP SO BAD.

BILLY: YOUR FRIEND WANTED TO DO THAT BUT HE FLIP-FLOPPED.

WENDY: ARE WE RIGHT OR WRONG?

WILL HE BE A LIABILITY OR NOT?

WE DO NOT KNOW THAT.

JIM: STAY TUNED.

THAT WAS LIVELY.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

BILLY AND JOE AND WENDY, WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

IT IS BUSY IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

STAY WITH US ALL WEEK LONG.

WE HOPE YOU JOIN US NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

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