JIM: THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," GUN LEGISLATION.

ANSWER THE STATE TAKEN MILLIONS OF ADDITIONAL DOLLARS FOR A PROPOSED SOCCER STADIUM PROJECT?

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- JOHN: HI, I AM JOHN HAYES AND.

FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF IMPORTANT POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US ON THE PROGRAM, MAUREEN MOAKLEY, A RETIRED POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITY OF RHODE ISLAND, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST LOU PULNER, AND FORMER STATE RPRESENTATIVE JON BRIEN.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S "LIVELY."

THIS WEEK, THE LEADERSHIP IN THE SENATE SHOWED HOW COMMITTED IT IS TO PASSING THREE BILLS AIMED AT PUTTING RESTRICTIONS ON FIREARMS SALES AND USE, BUT WHAT THEY DID HAS SOME CRYING FOUL.

JON, LET ME START WITH YOU.

LET'S SET THE TABLE FIRST.

IT WENT DOWN ON A 6-6 TIE, SO INSTEAD OF HAVING THAT LEGISLATION DIE, THEY TOOK THE HOUSE LEGISLATION, CAME OVER, TOOK IT DIRECTLY TO THE SENATE, AND THAT HAS SOME PEOPLE ASKING ABOUT IT.

JON: WHAT THEY DID IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.

THEY HAVE THE SENATE RULES, THE SENATORS VOTED FOR THE RULES, THEY EXCEPTED THEM, AND THOSE ARE THE RULES THEY ARE FOLLOWING.

THEY CAN DO THAT.

.

HOWEVER, I THINK IT SHAKES CONFIDENCE IN THE PROCESS, ESPECIALLY BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

PEOPLE DRIVE TO THE STATEHOUSE.

THEY HAVE TO FIND A PLACE TO PARK.

THEY HAVE TO GO THROUH SECURITY, THEY WAITED IN THE HALLS FOR HOURS, THEY TESTIFY FOR THREE MINUTES, THEN THEY LEAVE, AND THEY THINK THEY HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE.

AND AFTER ALL OF THAT, WHEN A BILL DIES IN COMMITTEE IN THE SENATE, IT GETS BROUGHT BACK ANYWAY.

JIM: BUT THE GUN PEOPLE WERE THRILLED WHEN IT DIED IN COMMITTEE.

THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD THEIR VICTORY.

JON: AND THEY DID.

THEY HAD A VICTORY.

WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS, LOOK, IT IS PARLIAMENTARY CHICANERY, THERE IS NO QUESTION, BUT IT IS LEGAL.

HOWEVER, I THINK IT SHAKES THE FOUNDATION AND CALLS INTO QUESTION THE OVERALL COMMITTEE PROCESS.

LOOK, I KNOW THIS IS A HYPER EMOTIONAL ISSUE.

PEOPLE FEEL THAT THEY NEED TO GET THIS DONE.

BUT DOES THE END JUSTIFY THE MEANS, IN THE LONG TERM?

BECAUSE NOW, LET'S SAY THE OPPOSITION PARTY WANTS TO PULLED THE SAME EXACT MOVE LATER ON, AND THE LEADERSHIP SAYS NO WAY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER.

IT JUST REEKS OF A PLAYER.

MAUREEN: I DISAGREE.

I THINK THE END DOES JUSTIFY THE MEANS, AND I THINK IF PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS OR SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER THEY KNOW I DID NOT GET INTO COMMITTEE, I DON'T THINK THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

PEOPLE THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, INVOLVED IN THE SYSTEM, I THINK THAT IS ONE THING, BUT THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY MOVE, PERFECTLY LEGAL, THE LEADERSHIP HAD THE RIGHT TO DO IT, AND I THINK IN THE END, IT WAS WELL THOUGHT.

JIM: ARE YOU SAYING THAT BECAUSE IT WAS 25-11, THAT IT WAS NOT EVEN A CLOSE VOTE?

MAUREEN: YES.

AND MOREOVER, COMMITTEES ARE BECOMING MORE IMPORTANT.

I HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS IN ANOTHER CONTEXT, BUT THERE IS A LITTLE MORE OF PARTICIPATION, PEOPLE GET MORE INVOLVED, THESE WERE THE COMMITTEE HEARINGS THREE YEARS AGO.

THE COMMITTEE DOES NOT SHOW UP.

I MEAN, IT HAS BEEN A VERY LACKADAISICAL SYSTEM.

SO I THINK IT IS MORE ROBUST NOW, AND THAT IS GOOD, BUT I ALSO THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I AM FOR SUPPORTING THE LEADERSHIP AND WHAT THEY DID, PARTICULARLY IN LIGHT OF THE VOTES THAT ULTIMATELY CAME OUT.

JIM: DOMINIC REGIER, -- DOMINICK RUGGERIO HAS AN A RATING WITH THE NRA.

HE ORCHESTRATED THE VOTE THAT GOT THESE BILLS THROUGH.

A, IT TELLS ME HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE NRA.

HE DID WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS MORE IMPORTANT FROM THE SAFETY OF OUR SCHOOLS.

THE SECOND TAKE AWAY IS THAT TWO OUT OF THREE AIN'T BAD.

ONE OF THEM IS NOT GOING TO PASS CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER, AND THAT IS THE ONE THAT HAS THE LIMIT.

JIM: WE WILL GET TO THAT IN A SECOND, ON PARLIAMENT.

>> I CAN'T DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT PROFESSOR MOAKLEY SAID.

IF YOU AGREE THAT COMMITTEES HAVE BECOME MORE ROBUST, I THINK THIS PARLIAMENTARY MOVE MAKES THIS SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ALMOST FECKLESS.

THEY HAD A HARD-FOUGHT DEBATE.

THEY TOOK TESTIMONY, AND YET THEIR DECISION WAS BYPASSED FOR THE GREATER WHOLE.

>> I AGREE WITH HIM ON THAT, TOO.

>> THE REAL QUESTION WAS THEY NEVER PUT A BOAT OUT.

THEY CAN COUNT THE VOTE.

WAS THIS GUY TO REST WARWICK -- WEST WARWICK CHANGE THE BOW, OR RUGGERIO, HOW DID IT GO TO COMMITTEE, THAT IS WHAT SURPRISED ME THE MOST, BECAUSE THERE ARE VERY FEW SURPRISES THAT WAY, RIGHT?

LOU: YEAH.

>> WHAT REALLY SURPRISED ME AS THE SUDAN MAJORITY LEADER DID NOT SHOW UP AND THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE COULD HAVE DONE THAT AND MADE IT A 7-6 VOTE .

>> WELL, RUGGERIO AND MIKE MCCAFFREY SHOWED UP.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE LEGALITY.

THE THREE BILLS WERE PASSED, RAISING THE AGE FROM 18 TO 21 -- >> LEGAL.

>> LEGAL.

AND THE MAGAZINE CAPACITY, SOME OTHER STATES HAVE DONE THIS.

THERE IS NO GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, SO IF YOU OWN SOMETHING GREATER THAN 10, IS THAT SEARCH AND SEIZURE TAKING THE PROPERTY FOR WE HAVE TWO LAWYERS HERE.

LET'S WEIGH IN ON THAT.

>> IT CERTAINLY IS.

I WANT TO TOUCH ON THE OTHER BILL, YOU CANNOT CARRY A LOADED LONG GUN IN PUBLIC.

WHAT ARE THE POLICE GOING TO BE DOING IF YOU ARE WALKING DOWN THE STREET WITH A LONG GUN, A RIFLE?

ARE THEY GOING TO JUST PULL YOU OVER AND SAY, "I WANT TO SEE IF IT IS LOADED?"

>> THAT MIGHT BE PROBABLE CAUSE, IF THEY ARE LEGAL.

>> NO, NOT IF IT IS EMPTY.

IF IT IS NOT LOADED, IT IS LEGAL.

THAT IS THE NUANCE.

IS SAYS YOU CANNOT CARRY A LOADED LONG GUN OR RIFLE IN PUBLIC.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER ISSUE?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS THE SECOND AMENDMENT, AND I THINK IT WILL FALL ON THOSE GROUNDS ALONE.

EVEN IF IT DOES NOT AND THEY THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THAT KIND OF A LAW, ANYTHING OVER 10 ROUNDS, JON AND I WERE TALKING, HE HAS SEVERAL GUNS OVER 10 ROUNDS.

IN SIX MONTHS, IF HE STILL HAS THOSE, HE WOULD BE A FELON.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT IS A TAKING, LIKE IMMINENT DOMAIN, YOU HAVE TO COMPENSATE PEOPLE IF YOU TAKE SOMETHING FROM THEM.

IF YOU ARE SAYING, "YOU CAN'T HAVE THIS ANYMORE," THE REALITY IS THEY HAVE TO COMPENSATE YOU FOR THAT.

>> THEY CAN'T JUST ATTACH A PHYSICAL NOTE TO THIS.

>> LASTLY, THERE IS NO GRANDFATHER CLAUSE.

THE REASON IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYS IT IS MEANINGLESS, BECAUSE THEY DON'T PUT SERIAL NUMBERS, REGISTRATION NUMBERS ON MAGAZINES, SO THE POLICE WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVE IF YOU HAD THE 30 ROUND MAGAZINE BEFORE THE LAW KICKED IN OR AFTER.

>> GO AHEAD.

MAUREEN: THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THIS MAY BE A PROBLEM.

THERE IS A CASE IN CALIFORNIA THAT IS GOING TO COME UP SOON, VERY SIMILAR TO THIS ONE, SO WE WILL GET AN IDEA.

MARONEY THINKS HE CAN PREVAIL, BUT WE WILL HAVE TO SEE.

>> THEN WE GET TO THE SUPREME COURT, AND ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

DON'T YOU THINK THE SUPREME COURT DECIDING THIS NOW IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE WE HAD THREE YEARS AGO?

>> THE QUESTION.

>> SO WHAT DO YOU THINK, LEGALLY?

>> AS LOU SAID, IF THE GOVERNMENT TRIES TO TAKE YOUR HOUSE, THEY HAVE TO COMPENSATE YOU.

WE ARE NOT TAKING IT FROM YOU, WE ARE TELLING YOU THAT YOU HAVE TO TURN IT IN, YOU CAN TRANSFER IT TO SOMEONE IN ANOTHER STATE, YOU CAN SELL IT.

WE HAVE GIVEN YOU OPTIONS.

BUT IT IS NOT TAKING, NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, I THINK MAKING POTENTIAL FELONS OUT OF LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS, YOU HAVE, IN RHODE ISLAND -- AND WHAT I FIND MOST INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS THAT SO MANY OF THE PEOPLE ALTERING THESE LAWS, PUTTING THEM FORWARD AND ARGUING FOR THEM, HAVE NEVER TOUCHED A FIREARM, HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT TAKES TO OWN A FIREARM, AND REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF GUN OWNERSHIP WHATSOEVER.

SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT -- >> THAT IS TRUE ABOUT A LOT OF LAWS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> PARTICULARLY WITH THIS VERY EMOTIONAL -- EMOTIONAL ARGUMENTS, YOU KNOW, WON THE DAY HERE.

WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, IN RHODE ISLAND, HAVING TO GET YOUR BLUE CARD, HAVING WAITING PERIOD S, YOU KNOW, BEING A RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER.

WHAT THESE LAWS HAVE DONE, PARTICULARLY THE BLUE MAGAZINE LAW, HAS MADE POTENTIAL FELONS AND WILL CREATE A BLACK MARKET.

LOOK, JIM, YOU CAN GET ANYTHING YOU WANT ANYWHERE IF YOU WANT.

I KNOW IT FEELS LIKE RHODE ISLAND HAS "DONE SOMETHING," OK, BUT THE WAY THEY WENT ABOUT IT, IT IS ONLY GOING TO AFFECT PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS.

I OWN A GERMAN PISTOL THAT HAS A MANUFACTURING MAGAZINE OF 15 ROUNDS.

THAT IS HOW THEY MAKE THE GUN.

SO NOW THEY ARE SAYING, WELL, YOU OWN THAT GUN FOR FIVE YEARS, AND YOU KEEP IT IN A LOCKED SAFE, JON, BUT NOW YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE IT ANY LONGER.

THAT IS NOT CORRECT.

MAUREEN: MY TAKE HERE IS, IN TERMS OF MAGAZINES, WHY DON'T THEY JUST BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS WHAT ABOUT THAT?

THIS DEBATE WOULD NOT BE SO VIBRANT IF THEY JUST WENT AHEAD AND DID THAT.

I MEAN, I HAVE TALKED TO GUN OWNERS, PEOPLE WHO GO TO FIRING RANGES.

NO IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, HIGH-CAPACITY GUNS, IT IS CRAZY, AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

THAT WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE THING IS, YOU KNOW, IT IS COMING, I THINK, AND WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> I WOULD NOT.

>> WHY?

>> BECAUSE NOW WE ARE SAYING, WELL, YOU CAN HAVE THIS DONE, BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE THIS GUN.

AND, LOOK, THE REALITY IS, I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO, AGAIN, ARE RESPONSIBLE, LEGAL GOING OWNERS WHO HAVE ASSAULT RIFLES.

I TOLD A REPRESENTATIVE WHAT I OWN, AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID, "WELL, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT."

[LAUGHTER] IN MY IDEA IS, WAIT A MINUTE, I HAVE THE CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS I CAN.

IF YOU DO ASSAULT RIFLE BANDS, AGAIN, IT WILL BE A FEEL-GOOD, BUT IT WILL BE STRUCK DOWN IN THE SUPREME COURT.

MAUREEN: I THINK IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> THAT IS THE CASE OF A WELL ARMED MILITIA.

ANYWAY.

MAUREEN: I MEAN, WE HAD FEDERAL LAW THAT BAND ASSAULT WEAPONS, AND IT EXPIRED.

>> BACK IN THE 1990'S.

LET ME ASK QUICKLY, INCREASING THE AGE FROM 18 TO 21, DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT?

>> NO, I LIKE IT.

IN FACT, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MENTAL HEALTH BACKGROUND CHECKS.

>> WHAT ABOUT YOU?

>> GET'S FINE, AND I AGREE WITH LOU.

IT IS NOT MAGAZINE CAPACITY, IT IS MENTAL HEALTH.

IT IS MENTAL HEALTH!

WHEN YO LOCK KIDS AWAY FOR TWO YEARS, YOU LEGALIZE WEED, YOU HAVE NO PARENTAL STRUCTURE WHATSOEVER, AND YOU HAVE ULTRAVIOLENT VIDEO GAMES, AND NOW THESE KIDS ARE 18 YEARS OLD, GOING OUT TO BUY A GUNS, THIS IS NO SURPRISE.

MENTAL HEALTH HAS GOT TO BE INVOLVED.

>> BUT IN THE CASE IN UVALDE AND OKLAHOMA, THE KID TURNS 18, AND THEN HE GOES AND BY A GUN AND SHOOTS UP.

>> THAT IS A WAITING PERIOD PROBLEM.

>> ANOTHER BILL CRUISED THROUGH THE HOUSE THAT WILL GO TO THE SENATE, WHICH MEANS THE END OF THE SESSION IS ALMOST NEAR.

$13.6 BILLION.

I LOVE ON FACEBOOK, THEY SAID "FOUR YEARS AGO TODAY, WE WERE TALKING ON "LIVELY" ABOUT HOW THE BUDGET WAS $9.6 MILLION," FOUR YEARS AGO.

I KNOW A LOT OF THIS IS INFLATED WITH COVID MONEY.

YOUR VIEW ON THIS BUDGET?

MAUREEN: I THINK IT IS PRETTY GOOD.

I KNOW IT IS $13 BILLION, BUT THE WORLD HAS CHANGED A LOT.

IT WAS INTERESTING, BECAUSE I THOUGHT WHAT THEY DID WAS CERTAINLY THERE WAS SOME GRIEF AND CERTAIN THINGS THAT DID NOT NEED TO HAPPEN, BUT THEY TOOK CARE OF THE PROBLEMS WE HAD.

THEY MADE A GREAT STRIDE TOWARD THAT, IN TERMS OF HEALTH CARE, IN TERMS OF EDUCATION, AND, GENERALLY SPEAKING, I THINK THEY RESISTED, FOR THE MOST PART, FINDING THINGS THAT HAD TO BE CONTINUED.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY WERE REALLY PRETTY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.

IN OTHER WORDS, WANTON STUFF BUT NOT A LONG-TERM COMMITMENT.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE BIG STUFF, LOU?

TEMPORARY SUSPENDING OF THE GAS TAX?

LOU: THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

THEY TRIED TO HAVE AN AMENDMENT ON THE FLOOR THAT FAILED, SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS PUT FORWARD, AND POTENTIALLY CHANGING SALES TAX.

I GOT A SENSE OF HESITANCY THAT THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE LONG RUN, BY DOING SOMETHING STRUCTURAL.

>> I REMEMBER I WAS ON TWO YEARS AGO, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BUDGET, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT -- IT WAS $11 BILLION OR $12 BILLION, WHICH IS TWICE THE BUDGET OF THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE.

I LOVE THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, I DON'T GO THERE OFTEN, BUT I LIKE USING THEM AS A COMPARISN.

THEY HAVE 400,000 MORE PEOPLE THAN WE DO IN RHODE ISLAND, AND THEIR BUDGET IS THE SAME THIS YEAR, IT IS $13.6 BILLION, JUST LIKE OURS, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A SALES TAX.

WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG THAT WE KEEP JUST FEEDING THIS BE AST?

THAT IS WHY PEOPLE LEAVE THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

[OVERLAPPING CHATTER] BY THE WAY, I WANT TO SAY THERE WAS $28 MILLION FOR MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES FOR CHILDREN, AND I APPLAUD THAT.

.

I ALSO APPLAUD THE FACT THAT THERE WILL BE ANOTHER DISTRICT COURT JUDGE, CERTAINLY ASSIGNED TO A MENTAL HEALTH CALENDAR.

>> THAT IS LIKE THE OLD GUN CALENDAR FROM YEARS BACK, TO REFLECT THE TIMES.

>> THERE'S A LOT THAT CAN BE CELEBRATED, HOWEVER, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, JIM, WE HAVE GOT A $13 BILLION BUDGET, OK?

THE SPEAKER SAID THERE'S A LOT OF ONE-TIME RINGS, WE HAVE THE FEDERAL MONEY, WE ARE GOING TO SPEND IT.

NOW, WHEN YOU HAVE GOT A SACK FULL OF MONOPOLY MONEY AND YOU ARE SPENDING IT, AND YOUR BUDGET GOES UP TO $13 BILLION, THERE IS NO QUESTION WHY INFLATION IS WHERE IT IS IN THIS COUNTRY.

THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY LIKE MAD AND GIVING IT TO THE STATES.

SO WE SPENT IT, AND WE SPENT IT IN GOOD WAYS.

I WILL MAKE THE SAME ARGUMENT I MADE IN THE GENERAL SIMPLY 10 YEARS AGO.

RHODE ISLAND IS THE COUNTRY'S SMALL ESTATE, YET WE HAVE ONE OF THE LARGEST SAFETY MATES IN ALL OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

>> WHICH RHODE ISLAND -- NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT HAVE.

MAUREEN: RIGHT.

>> IF WE HAD A SAFETY NET COMMISERATE WITH THE SIZE OF THE STATE, NOT WHEN PEOPLE OF TEXAS OR FLORIDA OR CALIFORNIA, THE ONE THAT EQUALED RHODE ISLAND, OUR BUDGET WOULD NOT BE $13 BILLION.

>> HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH.

MAUREEN: THE NEW HAMPSHIRE THINGS NOT WORK AT ALL, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A RURAL STATE, THEY DON'T HAVE HIGH IMMIGRANTS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF POOR PEOPLE.

THE COMPARISON DOES NOT EXACTLY WORK.

>> I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY HIS POINT, RHODE ISLAND ATTRACT A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE EFFECTS.

>> SOCIAL SPENDING IN THIS STATE HAS BEEN GOING UP.

THE TRAJECTORY OF SOCIAL SPENDING IN THE STATE NEVER GOES LEVEL OR DOWN, EVER.

YOU CAN ARGUE WHETHER THAT IS GOOD OR NOT, BUT I AM SAYING IT IS APPLES AND ORANGES, BECAUSE WE ARE KNOWN FOR HAVING PRETTY GOOD BENEFITS.

>> YES, WE DO.

SO YOU DON'T WANT THAT.

>> NO, I DON'T WANT THAT.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU CUT?

>> FOR EXAMPLE, EVERYONE COMING DRAWER SOUTHERN BORDER IS GETTING FREE MEDICAL CARE -- MAUREEN: THAT IS NOT HERE.

>> WE DON'T KNOW THAT.

THEY ARE BEING SHIPPED ALL OVER.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD, AND I CAN'T PROVE THIS, THERE WAS A GROUP THAT CAME BY BUS TO CENTRAL FALLS -- >> THEY ARE FILTERING TO THE STATES.

MAUREEN:MAUREEN: SO WE SHOULD STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION -- >> I PAID $855 A MONTH FOR MY BLUE CROSS, ME, JUST SOLE POLICY.

THEY ARE GETTING FREE MEDICAL CARE.

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

>> MY ARGUMENT HERE IS, QUITE SIMPLY, IF, PER CAPITA, WE SPENT ON A SAFETY NET, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SIZE OF OUR STATE, OUR BUDGET WULD BE HALF OF WHAT IT IS, AND IT IS NOT.

OUR SOCIAL SPENDING AND OUR NET IN THIS STATE HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY GENEROUS, AND WE HAVE -- AND I UNDERSTAND IT.

IT IS BECAUSE OF THE MAKEUP OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC SUPER MAJORITY.

THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE STOPPED, WE HAVE NO LINE ITEM VETO, AND THERE'S NO WAY, UNLESS CERTAIN ISSUES COME UP, WE CAN OVERRIDE ANY VETO BY ANY GOVERNOR WE HAVE.

>THAT ULTIMATELY MEANS THAT THE BUDGET JUST KEEPS GOING UP, AND WE KEEP SPENDING.

I THINK THAT, IF I HAD A BUDGET AND I HAD CONTROL, I WOULD HAVE RETURNED A LOT OF MONEY TO THE TAXPAYERS.

BECAUSE, ULTIMATELY, SPEND LESS, LET PEOPLE KEEP MORE OF WHAT THEY EARN.

MAUREEN: I AGREE.

ONE THING I DID NOT UNDERSTAND IS WHY THEY DID NOT SUSPEND THE GAS TAX, YOU KNOW, THAT -- >> THERE IS A $900 MILLION SURPLUS.

MAUREEN: I DID NOT GET THAT AT ALL.

>> YOU'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE.

IT HAPPENED DURING THE RAIMONDO YEARS.

YOU HAVE A PROPOSED BUDGET, AND THEN THEY ADD IN $750 MILLION MORE.

SO IS THAT ONE TIME SPENDING?

WHAT IF THE BASELINE GOING TO BE FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR?

MAUREEN: I THINK, UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, THE REPUBLICANS MADE A GOOD CASE.

>> ONCE YOU GIVE IT, IT IS HARD TO TAKE AWAY.

MAUREEN: YOU CAN.

>> POLITICALLY, I THINK THEY ARE WORRIED.

GAS TAX, THEN GAS GOES UP $.25 AFTER COME DOWN, BECAUSE EVENTUALLY, YOU HAVE TO REINSTATE, BECAUSE IT PAYS FOR ROADS AND BRIDGES.

>> WE WOULD NOT KNOW IT PAYS FOR ISLAND.DS AND BRIDGES IN RHODE MAUREEN: I'M MORE OPTIMISTIC THAN YOU ALL.

>> ALRIGHT, THE OTHER BIG ISSUE THAT HAS KIND OF FLOWN UNDER THE RADAR BUT HAS EVERYBODY IN PAWTUCKET INTERESTED IS THE TIDEWATER LANDING, THE BIG SOCCER STADIUM, HOUSING, MIXED-USE, THIS STARTED AS HUNDRED $85 MILLION.

INFLATION, NO SURPRISE COME UP A BUCKET ONCE AN EXTRA $30 MILLION -- NO SURPRISE, IT LOOKS LIKE PAWTUCKET WANTS AN EXTRA $30 MILLION.

THE BOARD MEMBERS THEMSELVES, UNLIKE 38 STUDIOS.

>> THE ALARM BELLS GO OFF, 38 STUDIOS, WE DO NOT WANT ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE.

YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, SOCCER DOES NOT NEED TO BE SOMETHING THAT RHODE ISLANDERS GRAVITATE TO.

MAUREEN: I DON'T KNOW.

>> CHANGING DEMOGRAPHIC, IT MIGHT BE, BUT TO MAKE IT PROFESSIONALLY WORK WITH WHAT YOU SEE A PROFESSIONAL TEAM IN GILLETTE, WHICH IS ONLY 25, 30 MINUTES FROM HERE.

MAUREEN: IT IS A TOSSUP.

I WOULD GO TO THOSE GAMES.

THE COMMUNITY REALLY ENJOYS THAT.

>> BUT THAT IS BASEBALL.

MAUREEN: I DON'T.

I THINK SOCCER -- FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE WHOLE PROJECT IS TERRIFIC.

I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, THAT THEY WILL START WITH THE STADIUM, AND I APPLAUD THE COMMITTEE FOR STEPPING BACK AND THINKING ABOUT IT MORE SERIOUSLY , BECAUSE IT IS PART OF A BIG PACKAGE, WHICH WOULD MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR PAWTUCKET.

>> WHAT IF THERE IS MORE, IT IS $30 MILLION IN OVERRUNS NOW, WHAT IF BY THE TIME THEY ACTUALLY GET THIS THING UP -- >> WHAT IF LIKE THE STADIUM, WHO IS GOING TO BE ON THE HOOK IF IT CONTINUES TO GO UP?

>> LOU MENTIONED THE 38 STUDIOS HANGOVER.

WE HAVE GOT TO GET PAST THAT.

WE HAVE GOT TO UNDERSTAND, AND I KNOW IT IS INSIDE BASEBALL, THAT 38 STUDIOS WAS ULTIMATELY A BILL THAT WENT TO THE EDC, THEY GAVE THE EDC CONTROL OF 120 $5 MILLION FOR SMALL BUSINESS LOANS, AND THERE WAS A WORKOUT BETWEEN THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AND THE FINANCE CHAIR THAT NOBODY KNEW ABOUT TO PUT IT ONE POT, SO IT PASSED ON A 66-1 VOTE, WITH BOB WATSON BEING THE SOLE VOTE AGAINST IT, BECAUSE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, AND THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE GUARANTEES FOR LOANS FOR SMALL BUSINESS.

BUT A BUNCH OF POLITICIANS GOT TOGETHER AND MADE IT NOT THAT.

SO WE CANNOT STOP PROGRESS IN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND FOR THAT ONE REASON, THAT ONE INSTANCE.

I THINK PAWTUCKET IS AN UP-AND-COMING S CITY.

I THINK THEY REALLY TURNED AROUND.

DON BRESLIN IS A GREAT MAYOR.

I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, BUT I UNDERSTAND SOCCER, THE DEMOGRAPHICS.

AND IT IS NOT JUST SAYING LET'S PUT A SOCCER USE ONLY STADIUM OVER THERE.

WITH THE USE OF RETAIL, THE HOUSING AND EVERYTHING ELSE, PAWTUCKET HAS BECOME A DESTINATION FOR THE MICROBREW INDUSTRY.

I THINK IT WILL BE A REALLY SUCCESSFUL THING.

UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVE A FRIEND ON LEG WHO IS BUILDING A HOUSE RIGHT NOW.

THIS HOUSE IS GOING TO COST HIM 2.5 TIMES WHAT IT WOULD HAVE COST HIM THREE YEARS AGO.

>> WHEN MY SUN WAS AID, OUR TOWN HAS AN ACTIVE SOCCER LEAGUE.

EVERYBODY IS IN IN THE FALL.

HE FINALLY SAID, HEY, DAD, I WOULD RATHER PLAY BASEBALL.

I IS ALL FOR THAT, BECAUSE HE IS A GOOD ATHLETE, BECAUSE HE MEAN HE WILL NEVER GO BACK?

I SAID, SO, CAM, WHY IS IT YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY SOCCER, YOU WOULD RATHER PLAY BASEBALL?

HE GOES, I JUST DON'T GET SOCCER.

IT IS JUST A LOT OF RUNNING AROUND.

THAT IS THE AMERICAN VIEW OF SOCCER, ISN'T IT?

NOW, I UNDERSTAND THE DEMOGRAPHICS ARE CHANGING COME OF IT ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE THIS WORK?

>> IT IS 10,000 SEATS, IT IS A MINOR LEAGUE.

MAUREEN: IT IS FOR THE COMMUNITY.

IT IS PART OF THE PRACTICE.

>> YOUR APPROACH IS LIKE "FIELD OF DREAMS," "IF THEY BUILD IT, I AM NOT SO CONVINCED THAT "IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME."

MAUREEN: MY WHOLE FAMILY PLAY SOCCER.

IT IS A BIG DEAL.

>> WILL THEY GO TO WATCH A SOCCER GAME?

>> A MINOR LEAGUE SOCCER GAME.

MAUREEN: I THINK IT IS A CHANGING DEMOGRAPHIC.

WITH SOCCER WILL PAY MORE THING TO DO IT.

AND WE HAVE A DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC.

WE HAVE A HIGH LATINO POPULATION.

IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM.

THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT IT.

AND I THINK THE PACKAGE IS TERRIFIC.

I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT GREBIEN, AND I THINK THE SOCCER STADIUM ADDS SOMETHING TO IT, BUT IT HAS GOT TO BE PART OF THIS LARGER PACKAGE.

>> WOULD YOU LIKE THEN FINAL WORD ON THAT?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE CONCERNS BY THE COMMERCE COMMITTEE, IS THIS THE CITY LOOKING FOR A SECOND BITE OF THE APPLE AFTER LOSING THE PAWSOX?

>> IN SOME WAYS THEY ARE.

>> IN SOME WAYS THEY ARE, HOWEVER, IF WE COULD GO BACK, WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER LOST THE PAWSOX.

BECAUSE IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS KIND OF MONEY -- >> $20 MILLION -- >> FOR A MINOR-LEAGUE SOCCER STADIUM, WHY DIDN'T WE JUST INVEST IN A AAA TEAM THAT HAS A BEAUTIFUL PARK UP IN WORCESTER NOW AND IS REALLY DOING WELL WITH THE CROWDS.

>> NICK MATTIELLO HAS AN OFFICE IN CRANSTON, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO ASK HIM.

>MAUREEN:MAUREEN: WHAT A MISS THAT WAS.

>> IT WAS.

THINK OF WHERE WE WOULD BE, AND I KNOW WORCESTER HAS SOME COST OVERRUNS, BUT WHERE WOULD WE BE RIGHT NOW?

>> ENOUGH TALKING ABOUT THIS.

LET'S GET TO THIS, KUDOS, MR. PULNER.

LOU: I HAVE A RUE.

I RUE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PAWSOX, AND I'VE RUE THE FACT THAT THE SPEAKER THE HOUSE WAS ABLE TO DO REAL THE DEFAULT AND WE HAD GOING ON HERE FOR GENERATIONS, AND NOW THEY ARE UP IN WORCESTER AND NOT HERE.

THAT IS MY RUE.

I THINK WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE STADIUM THE COST OVERRUNS, IT WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

>> LOU RUES THE DAY THAT THE PAWSOX -- MAUREEN: I THINK RUE IS A GOOD CATEGORY.

>> I HAVE A KUDOS OF THE WEEK.

>> MY GOODNESS.

>> KUDOS TO DEPUTY SPEAKER CHARLENE LIMA AND THE NEWSPAPER THIS WEEK TO RECRUIT A CANDIDATE FOR DISTRICT 16 IN CRANSTON, THE GARDEN CITY AREA.

SHE HAS HAD ENOUGH OF THE PROGRESSIVE REP THAT IS THERE RIGHT NOW, BRANDON POTTER.

I THINK CHARLENE HAS FOUGHT THE FIGHT ALL SESSION LOAN AGAINST THE PROGRESSIVES.

I THINK SHE IS LOOKING FOR ALLIES.

SHE TOOK ONE OUT OF THE PROGRESSIVE PLAYBOOK, WENT RIGHT AT THEM, AND SAID, IF YOU ARE TIRED OF THIS, AND LISTED ALL THE THINGS -- >> YOU HAVE GOT TO CHECK OUT THE AD.

>> IT IS ALL THE THINGS THAT SHE STANDS FOR.

IT IS UNBELIEVABLE.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR CHILD'S OBJECT NEGATION?

-- EDUCATION?

ARE YOU AGAINST DEFUNDING OUR POLICE?

AND HE GOES ON AND ON.

BUT WHAT IS WEIRD, SO MANY DEMOCRATS, AND IT IS CONTINUOUS -- SHE TOOK A PAGE OUT OF THE PROGRESSIVE PLAYBOOK AND SAID, "I'VE HAD ENOUGH.

.

I'M GOING AFTER THEM."

MAUREEN: I HAVE AN OUTRAGE, A SERIOUS OUTRAGE, NO ONE CAN HAVE WATCHED WHAT WAS GOING ON AS FOR THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS AND NOT BE STUNNED AND APPALLED.

I MEAN, IT IS JUST AWFUL.

SOMEBODY SAID, "WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS?

WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF IT?"

YOU'VE HEARD THE STORIES THAT THEY WERE SOME SHENANIGANS, AND HE WAS TRYING TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION.

IT SOUNDED SO CRAZY.

"WELL, THAT IS JUST SILLY STUFF."

IT WAS NOT SILLY STUFF.

IT WENT ON.

I MEAN, THE DETAIL THEY HAVE GONE INTO, THE IDEA THAT NOT ONLY HE MASTERMINDED THIS, BUT NOW THAT THERE ARE CONGRESSIONAL PEOPLE THAT ARE, BY THE WAY, ASKING FOR PARDONS, BECAUSE THEY WERE INVOLVED IN THIS, IT IS APPALLING AND FRIGHTENING.

AND I APPLAUD THE COMMITTEE.

AND A FUNNY THING, ONE LITTLE PIECE OF THIS, I REALLY THINK, WHEN THIS IS OVER, THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE WHO STATE, OH, IT IS A HATCHET JOB, IT IS A WITCHHUNT.

YOU CAN'T TALK TO THEM.

BUT IF YOU TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS AT LEAST A BIT OF AN OPEN MIND, THEY HAVE TO SEE.

SO THAT IS MY OUTRAGE COMMANDED IS A BIG DEAL.

>> AND IT IS AMAZING, 15 YEARS AGO THIS WEEK WAS THE BREAK-IN AT THE WATERGATE, AND THINK ABOUT WHAT BROUGHT RICHARD NIXON DOWN, IT WAS THE COVER-UP.

YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT WAS TOLERATED NOW -- WE COULD DO A WHOLE SHOW ON THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE THIS WEEK.

MR. BRIEN, GOOD TO SEE YOU, AND LOU AND MAUREEN.

NEXT WEEK, THE HOME STRETCH OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY MAY BE OVER BY THIS TIME NEXT WEEK AND WE WILL HAVE A FULL ANALYSIS FOR YOU AND TELL YOU WHAT TO LOOK FORWARD TO IN THE COMING WEEKS.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND JOIN US NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY BURNED MY -- GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY --