WASHINGTON BRIDGE WAS CLOSED ABRUPTLY, WE ARE NO CLOSER TO REPLACING IT OR KNOWING WHY IT HAPPENED.

THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND HAS BEEN WAREHOUSING HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN IN D.C. Y F CUSTODY FOR LENGTHY PERIODS OF TIME.

3 "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HELLO, I'M JOHN HAZEN WHITE.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT ON THE ISSUES THAT FACED RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF RHODE ISLAND PBS AND THIS GREAT PROGRAM.

JIM: JOINING US ON THE PROGRAM, DAVID SALVATORI, THE NEWLY APPOINTED EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE PROVIDENCE FOUNDATION, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR ROB HOROWITZ, AND STEPH MACHADO, CONTRIBUTOR FOR "RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY."

WELCOME TO "LIVELY," I'M JIM HUMMEL AND IT'S GREAT TO BE BACK WITH YOU.

CONTROVERSY IN TIN USED TO SWIRL AROUND THE BIDEN DID FOR REELECTION AND MORE ON THAT A LITTLE LETTER -- LATER.

GOVERNOR MCKEE MET WITH REPORTERS ON TUESDAY FOR AN UPDATE ON THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE.

AFTER AN HOUR OF BACK-AND-FORTH, WE STILL DO NOT KNOW WHEN A NEW BRIDGE WILL BE BUILT, WHO WILL REBUILD IT, AND HOW MUCH IT WILL COSTS, NOT TO MENTION HOW MUCH -- HOW WE GOT HERE.

STEPH, YOU HAD THE PLEASURE, IN, UNCOVERING THAT PRESS CONFERENCE AND THEN THIS MORNING THE LAWYERS MET, TAPING ON A WEDNESDAY.

STEPH: SAYING THAT WE HAVE MORE UNKNOWNS THAN EVER, THE UNKNOWN FROM TUESDAY BEING WHEN WILL THE BRIDGE REOPEN, THE TIMELINE IS MURKIER THAN EVER.

WEDNESDAY, IT'S -- WHO IS THE STATE GOING TO SUE?

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAILURE OF THE BRIDGE?

THE NEWS THAT WE GOT, WHICH WE PROBABLY WILL, IT WILL HAPPEN IN AUGUST, SO NEXT MONTH WE SHOULD PRESUMABLY KNOW WHO IS GETTING SUED OVER THE BRIDGE, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN WE WILL GET THE FORENSIC ANALYSIS THAT TELLS US WHAT WENT WRONG.

JIM: DAVID: DAVID?

THERE ARE BUSINESSES IN PROVIDENCE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY THE BRIDGE CLOSURE.

RESIDENTS OF THE EAST BAY ARE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED.

BUT LET'S KEEP IN MIND THAT WHILE WE ALL WANT ANSWERS AND ACCOUNTABILITY NEEDS TO HAPPEN WE WANT TO GET THIS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

I UNDERSTAND WHERE THE GOVERNOR IS COMING FROM.

IF THERE IS ONE THING THAT RHODE ISLANDERS DON'T LIKE, IT'S PAYING FOR THINGS TWICE.

WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION 20 OR 30 YEARS FROM NOW, THE SAME ONE THAT WE ARE HAVING TODAY, BUT WE ARE DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DO NOT KNOW WHEN THE BRIDGE WILL BE REBUILT.

IT IS GOOD THAT A VENDOR HAS BEEN SECURED TO DEMOLISH THE EXISTING BRIDGE, BUT AGAIN, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE GET THIS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

THE GOVERNOR HAS A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO ANSWER AND RIGHTFULLY SO.

THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IN PROVIDENCE I KNOW IS DEMANDING ANSWERS AND RIGHTFULLY SO.

ROB: THERE'S AN OLD BOOK I JIMMY RESNICK CALLED "THE GANG THAT COULDN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT," AND THAT'S WHAT THIS REMINDS ME OF.

YOU CAN'T MAKE IT UP.

THEY PUT OUT A REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL AND NO ONE BIDS?

I THINK THE OTHER ISSUE HERE IS -- THERE IS A PUBLIC INTEREST.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO LET LAWYERS, AND I THINK MOST OF THIS IS AN EXCUSE GAME -- IF YOU ARE GOING TO LET LAWYERS TO FIND WHEN YOU GIVE INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC, YOU ARE CREATING SOMETHING LESS IMPORTANT THAN A PUBLIC TRUST, OF WHICH AT THIS POINT THERE IS ZERO, MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO GET THE FORENSIC ANALYSIS OUT.

SO BE IT IF THE STATE GETS LESS, IF THAT'S THE TRADE-OFF.

WE STILL HAVE NO ANSWERS AND NO ONE TAKING REAL RESPONSIBILITY.

IF YOU WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HANDLE THIS AS BADLY AS YOU COULD HANDLE SOMETHING, THEY HAVE PRETTY MUCH SUCCEEDED.

JIM: I CAN'T -- I THINK THE FRUSTRATING THING IS THERE WERE BASIC QUESTIONS LIKE THE CONTRACTORS SAID THIS TIMETABLE WAS TOO AGGRESSIVE.

IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT IT WILL TAKE LONGER?

NO ONE WOULD EVEN ADMIT TO THAT.

PEOPLE AROUND THE TABLE THAT DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CONSTRUCTION WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BACK US UP.

STEPH: RIGHT INTO PUT A FINER POINT ON IT, THE DESIGN PHASE WAS SUPPOSED TO START IN AUGUST OF 2024.

SO, NEXT MONTH THE CONTRACTOR WAS SUPPOSED TO START SELLING THE -- DESIGNING THE BRIDGE BUT NO ONE BID TO BE THE BUILDER.

WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO GET AT IS -- IS THIS NOW PUSHED INTO 2000 27?

THE ORIGINAL END DATE WAS SEPTEMBER OF 26 AT THE LATEST.

ARE WE NOW SAYING THAT'S THE EARLIEST?

JIM: THE GOVERNOR WOULDN'T EVEN GO DOWN THAT ROAD.

9 -- STEPH: JUST TRY TO GET A BALLPARK.

EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT THERE ARE MR. -- MATERIAL COSTS OVERRUNS, WHAT HAVE YOU, BUT 26 IS ALREADY GOING INTO 27.

ARE WE GOING ANY FURTHER?

THEY WOULDN'T EVEN GIVE ANY SORT OF A BALLPARK AND IT'S INDICATIVE OF THE FACT THAT THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF BIDS THEY ARE GOING TO GET NOW THAT EVERYONE HAS REJECTED THE TIMELINE THEY ORIGINALLY CAME UP WITH.

JIM: PLAYING OFF OF YOUR POINT, ROB, 38 STUDIOS, WE GOT MONEY BACK.

BUT I THINK PEOPLE WANT TO ATTACH A NAME, AN ENTITY, SOMEONE WHO'S RESPONSIBLE.

HOW DID IT GO FROM FINE ON DECEMBER 10 TO NOT FIND ON DECEMBER 11?

IF IT CAME DOWN TO ME, WE HAVE A $14 BILLION BUDGET.

WOULDN'T YOU RATHER SACRIFICE THAT FOR THE ACCOUNTABILITY?

SEEMS LIKE THE GOVERNOR IS PUTTING A LEGAL CASE IN FRONT OF ALL OF THAT.

>> AND I CAN'T READ ANYONE'S HEART AND MIND, BUT I THINK THAT SOME OF IT IS AN EXCUSE FOR NOT PROVIDING REAL ANSWERS.

THE PROBLEM I HAVE ON THIS IS -- THE UNWILLINGNESS TO ACCEPT REAL RESPONSIBILITY.

EVEN IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE THE OTHER DAY, WHERE THEY SAID -- YOU KNOW, YOU CANNOT RULE OUT ALL THE CONTROVERSY.

WELL, MAYBE OR MAYBE NOT.

BUT PART OF THE CONTROVERSY WAS CREATED BY HOW THIS WAS HANDLED AND ALL YOU CAN DO IN A CRISIS IS BUILT TRUST, SENT RESPONSIBILITY, YEAH, IT TAKE LONGER.

PEOPLE WILL ACCEPT THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYONE WATCHING THE GOVERNOR ATTEMPTING TO MINIMIZE ALL OF THIS HAS ANY FAITH IN THIS GOING FORWARD.

THE RUBBER WILL OBVIOUSLY NEED THE ROAD AT SOME.

IT WILL GET REBUILT, I'M NOT SAYING THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, BUT WHAT IS LOST IS THE CREDIBILITY OF THE MCKEE ADMINISTRATION, WHICH IS MUCH BROADER THAN THE BRIDGE AT THIS POINT.

JIM: I ALSO WONDER IF NOW THAT NO ONE HAS BID IF SOMEONE COMES IN AND SAYS 500 MILLION, 600 MILLION.

I DID THIS WHEN I PAINTED HOUSES IN COLLEGE.

WE WOULD PUT OURSELVES INTO THE SUMMER AND SOMEONE WOULD CALL AND SAY CAN I PICK -- CAN YOU PAINT MY HOUSE?

IF I DIDN'T HAD TIME I WOULD DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE PRICE, AND IF THEY BID IT WOULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO IT.

IT WAS A POLITE WAY TO SAY I DON'T REALLY HAVE TIME TO DO IT BUT NOW WHAT IF SOMEONE COMES IN THAT'S THE ONLY BID WE'VE GOT.

YOU WORRY ABOUT THAT?

YOU HAVE BEEN IN PUBLIC AT -- OFFICE DEALING WITH BIDS.

IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?

DAVID: THAT'S WHERE THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO FIND OUT WHAT THE REAL ISSUES ARE AROUND THE PROJECT.

YES, THERE'S CONTROVERSY AROUND IT AND THAT COULD HAVE DISSUADED SOME CONTRACTORS FROM BIDDING ON SUCH A LARGE SCOPE, LIKE THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE, BUT AGAIN, TO ROB'S POINT, GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AND IF IT IS GOING TO TAKE A YEAR OR MORE, LET'S DO IT SO THAT WE AREN'T HAVING THE SAME CONVERSATION IN 30 YEARS.

STEPH: PART OF THE CONTROVERSY THAT MAY HAVE DISSUADED SOME COMPANIES IS THE STATE DID SEND LETTERS TO A BUNCH OF COMPANIES SAYING WE MIGHT SUE YOU.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY WOULDN'T BID TO BUILD A BRIDGE BECAUSE OF THAT, BUT THEY DON'T -- IT SORT OF JUST THESE TWO LANES GOING ON.

ONE IS THAT ALL THE COMPANIES THAT HAVE EVER WORKED ON THE BRIDGE MIGHT GET SUED AND WE DON'T KNOW WHICH ONES -- JIM: BUT PLEASE FEEL FREE TO BID.

[LAUGHTER] STEPH: FEEL FREE TO BUILD US A NEW ONE.

WE WILL SEE WHEN THE ISSUE THIS REQUEST FOR FEEDBACK.

HOPEFULLY WE WILL GET TO SEE THE FEEDBACK PUBLICLY AND CAN SEE HOW MANY COMPANIES WERE FEARFUL OF BIDDING, POTENTIALLY.

ROB: I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

THEY DISMISSED THAT AS A POSSIBILITY.

IT'S MORE THAN POSSIBLE THAT THE COMPANIES ARE NOT BIDDING BECAUSE OF THE LEGAL THREAT AND I'M SAYING THERE SHOULDN'T BE A LEGAL THREAT.

THE QUOTABLE QUOTE CONTROVERSY, THE OTHER ISSUE HERE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE SORT OF BRIDGE PROBLEM IS -- NO STRAIGHT ANSWERS.

NO STRAIGHT ANSWERS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS.

YOU KNOW, ALSO, IN TERMS OF THE LEGAL THING, THE ONE THING THEY WON'T COME BACK TO SAY IS THAT IT WAS D.O.T.

'S FAULT BECAUSE THEY DID A BAD JOB OF OVERSIGHT.

THAT'S THE OTHER THING THAT IS A PIECE OF THIS PUZZLE.

EVEN IF DOT GENERALLY DOES A GOOD JOB, THEY CLEARLY MISSED THINGS ON THE BRIDGE.

WILL THAT BE A PART OF THE LEGAL?

STEPH: WE ASK THAT AT THE NEWS CONFERENCE AND THEY SAID CLEARLY WE WILL NOT SUE OURSELVES.

AND I SAID WELL, IF YOU FIND IT IN SOMETHING WRONG, WILL YOU TELL THE PUBLIC?

IT SORT OF THIS -- IT SORT OF A CONVOLUTED ANSWER, WHICH IS THAT EVENTUALLY ALL OF OUR FINDINGS WILL COME OUT IN DISCOVERY AND THEY WILL END UP IN DOCUMENTS.

BUT THE COMPANIES THAT ARE SUED MIGHT BLAME D.O.T.

AND THAT MIGHT BE THEIR DEFENSE.

SO, I THINK IT IS -- I LEFT THAT NEWS CONFERENCE STILL CONFUSED ABOUT WHEN WE MIGHT GET A FULL AND COMPLETE ACCOUNTING OF WHO YOU WANT WHEN IN WHO IS AT FAULT.

JIM: AND HERE'S ANOTHER PROBLEM, THIS IS THE ONLY D.O.T.

PROJECT.

IF THERE ARE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS AND GIVEN THE SURE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT SHOULD BE SPENT ON OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, ISN'T IT MORE IMPORTANT TO FIND IT OUT FASTER SO THAT WE CAN FIX THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS THAT D.O.T.?

THIS IS THE ONE-OFF.

WE HAVE A LOT OF BRIDGES THAT ARE SOME OF THE WORST IN THE COUNTRY.

SOME OF THE ROADS ARE THE WORST IN THE COUNTRY, STILL.

THERE ARE SYSTEMIC ISSUES THAT WE DON'T KNOW, BUT IF THEY ARE LET'S FIND IT OUT FASTER, IT WILL SAVE MORE MONEY THAN THE 20% WHERE WE ARE GIVING IT TO JOHN SAVAGE AND MATT WISDOM.

NICE GUYS, BUT THAT SEEMS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE REST OF IT WITH THE SEARCH FOR THE SCAPEGOAT BEING THE PREOCCUPATION.

I SAW THAT STEAM COMING OFF OF YOUR HEAD, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS BECAUSE YOU WERE TRYING TO PROCESS THIS.

ANY FARTHER THOUGHTS?

>> I THINK THAT ACCOUNTABILITY HAS TO HAPPEN BUT WHAT IS GETTING LOST IN THE CONVERSATIONS IS THE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IN DOWNTOWN AND EAST PROVIDENCE.

WE HAVE TO CONTINUE LOOKING FOR RESOURCES TO HELP THESE BUSINESSES.

THE LAST THING WE WANT DOWNTOWN IS THE RESTAURANTS CLOSING, STOREFRONTS CLOSING AND THAT'S THE REALITY OF THIS.

AGAIN, I WOULD HOPE THAT THAT IS A PART OF THE PUBLIC DISCUSSION MOVING FORWARD.

JIM: STEPH AT A POWERFUL STORY LAST MONTH FOR PBS WEEKLY HERE AND THEN A PRINT VERSION AND THE GLOBE ABOUT THE STATE, NO OTHER WAY TO SAY IT, WAREHOUSING HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN OVER THE YEARS.

THEY CAN'T PLAY -- THEY CAN'T PLACE THEM IN PSYCHIATRIC TREATMENT, THEY HAVE BASICALLY BEEN AT BRADLEY HOSPITAL.

IN TELEVISION SHE DID WHAT WE CALL PUTTING A FACE ON THE STORY .

SHE TALKED ABOUT MARY MCDONOUGH, A MOTHER WHO HAD TO DEAL WITH THE PROBLEMS THAT HER DAUGHTER, RACHEL HAD.

HERE'S A LITTLE BIT FROM HER VERSION ON RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY.

>> SHE ESSENTIALLY LIVED THERE.

SHE WAS THERE MORE THAN SHE WAS HOME.

WHEN SHE WAS ABLE TO COME HOME, IT WAS THE SAME THING.

IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE ANYTHING WAS WORKING FOR HER.

WE DID IT FOR AS LONG AS WE COULD, BUT AS SHE GOT BIGGER, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS THROWING ME AGAINST THE WALL AND PUSHING ME ONTO THE FLOOR.

>> EVENTUALLY HER PARENTS WERE CONFRONTED WITH A DIFFICULT CHOICE, DISCHARGE RACHEL TO A RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER RATHER THAN CONTINUE THE CYCLE OF REPEAT HOSTILE -- HOSPITALIZATIONS.

>> THERE WAS NOTHING AVAILABLE IN RHODE ISLAND.

NO GIRLS RESIDENTIAL.

TOWARDS THE END THEY STARTED LOOKING ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES.

IT WAS JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I HAD A HARD TIME WITH BECAUSE -- HOW CAN YOU MOTHER YOUR CHILD IN CALIFORNIA?

3 MARY SAYS THAT IT TOOK A YEAR FOR THEM TO SPY DEFAULT -- SPOT FOR RACHEL AT A RESIDENTIAL FACILITY IN MASSACHUSETTS.

FOR MOST OF THAT TIME, SHE LANGUISHED AT BRADLEY.

>> IT TURNS OUT THE BRADLEY HOSPITAL IS LIKE A NURSING HOME FOR CHILDREN WAITING FOR RESIDENTIAL PLACEMENT.

>> IT'S AN APPALLING FAILURE.

>> THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY SAID THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STARTED INVESTIGATING THE SITUATION AT BRADLEY IN 2022.

>> WE LOOKED FROM 2017 TO 2022 AND IN THAT TIME WE FOUND THERE WERE 527 KIDS HOUSE LONGER THAN THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT BRADLEY .

THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE BASICALLY INSTEAD OF LIVING THE NORMAL LIFE OF KID, YOU ARE IN A LOCKED ROOM IN A PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL?

THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF THAT ARE TERRIBLE.

JIM: IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE FULL VERSION, GO TO RIPBS.ORG/WEEKLY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME AND IT TOOK THE HEAD OF THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IN RHODE ISLAND TO BRING IT TO THE FOUR.

STEPH: WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THE STORY I SPOKE TO SO MANY ADVOCATES AND PEOPLE WHO WORK IN CHILD WELFARE WHO SAID THEY HAVE BEEN SCREAMING ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS.

THE PRESIDENT OF BRADLEY HOSPITAL TOLD ME THAT HE'S BEEN BRINGING IT UP FOR A DECADE.

SO, THE FACT THAT THERE IS THIS FEDERAL SCRUTINY ON IT, MORE ATTENTION IS BEING PUT ON, HOPEFULLY THAT WILL LEAD TO SOME CHANGE.

>> THE REPORT WAS REALLY MOVING AND I KNOW THE STATE HAD A SIMILAR ISSUE SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHERE JUDGE MCCONNELL HAD A KIND OF FEDERAL ORDER AROUND WHAT WERE ESSENTIALLY SWEATSHOPS WHERE THEY WERE PUTTING PEOPLE WITH MENTAL DISABILITIES AND SUPPOSEDLY GIVING THEM REAL DRAW -- REAL JOB-TRAINING.

SIMILAR ISSUE.

VERY UNFORTUNATE, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE SOME WEAKNESSES BUT USUALLY WE DO PRETTY WELL ON THESE KINDS OF ISSUES BROADLY ON HEALTH CARE AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

ONE THING I WAS WONDERING ABOUT, COMMUNITY SUPPORTS, IT WOULD BE BETTER IF PEOPLE COULD STAY IN THEIR OWN HOMES IN NEIGHBORHOODS .

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THE STATE SHOULD BE DOING?

I KNOW YOU MENTIONED PAYING FOSTER PARENTS.

BUT IF YOU HAD A KID WITH, OR A TEENAGER WITH THESE KINDS OF DIFFICULTIES, WHAT KINDS OF PROGRAMS -- DO THEIR NEED TO BE MORE DAY PROGRAMS?

MORE HOME VISITATION?

WHAT ARE SOME THINGS WE COULD DO AS A STATE PRIORITIES WHERE THEY SHOULD BE?

STEPH: TWO THINGS.

THEY NEED SOMEWHERE TO LIVE, THAT'S THE PART ABOUT THE FOSTER HOMES.

IN THIS CASE, THE GIRL IN MY STORY, RACHEL, HER PARENTS SO HAVE CUSTODY OF HER, SHE COULD STILL GO HOME, BUT THEY NEED SUPPORTS IN THE HOME, WHETHER THAT IS A SOCIAL WORKER, A PSYCHIATRIST, PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE TRAINED TO WORK WITH TEENAGERS WITH PSYCHIATRIC PROBLEMS WHO CAN COME TO THE HOME AND HELP THEM.

THERE IS ALSO OUTPATIENT THERAPY AND DIFFERENT SERVICES YOU CAN GET, SO IT IS A COMBINATION DEPENDING ON THE NEEDS OF THE CHILD IF PARENTS CAN JUST BRING THEM TO APPOINTMENTS, IF THEY NEED SOMEONE IN THE HOME, IF THEY NEED A DAY PROGRAM -- THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OF THOSE -- IT DEPENDS ON THE KID BUT THERE IS JUST NOT ENOUGH OF THOSE SERVICES, IN-HOME, OUTPATIENT, RESIDENTIAL, DAY PROGRAMS.

THAT IS HOW KIDS END UP STAYING AT THE HOSPITAL, WHICH IS THE WORST ENVIRONMENT.

JIM: BECAUSE THERE'S NOWHERE TO PUT THEM.

STEPH: THERE'S NO OPTIONS FOR DISCHARGE.

>> EVERY CHILD DESERVES DIGNITY AND COMPASSION, WE SHOULD BE ADVOCATING FOR THEM.

I SAW THIS AS A MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL, CONSTITUENTS WITH SIMILAR ISSUES.

NOW I AM WITNESSING IT FIRSTHAND AS A PARENT AND HOW OFTEN CHILDREN ARE REMOVED FROM A SCHOOL IF WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE GOING.

LOOK, BRADLEY HOSPITAL HAS DONE GREAT WORK FOR MANY YEARS.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD PIN THE BLAME ON THEM.

THE PRESIDENT OBVIOUSLY SPOKE OUT AND SAID SOMETHING.

HE SOUNDED THE ALARM.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THE STATE NEEDS TO DO THEIR PART IN PROVIDING THOSE RESOURCES NECESSARY.

IN YOUR PIECE I SAW THAT A NEW BUILDING OR NEW FACILITY IS BEING CENTERED OR IS GOING TO BE BUILT.

IT JUST SOUNDS, AGAIN FROM EXPERIENCE FROM BEING ON THE COUNCIL, THERE ARE JUST NOT ENOUGH WRAPAROUND SERVICES.

JIM: -- >> THE SAINT MARY'S FIASCO THREW A WRENCH INTO IT ALSO.

STEPH: THE HOSPITAL PRESIDENT TOLD ME THAT WAS THE PRIMARY PLACE THEY WERE DISCHARGING KIDS TO AFTER BRADLEY.

WHICH ISN'T TO SAY THAT A RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER IS THE IDEAL PLACE FOR KIDS LONG TERM, BUT IT'S A STEP DOWN FROM THE HOSPITAL IN TERMS OF THE LEVEL OF RESTRICTION.

YES, THERE IS A NEW GIRLS FACILITY THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUILT IN EXIT OR.

ADVOCATES SAY THAT WE SHOULD REALLY BE FOCUSED ON BUILDING MORE RESIDENTIAL FACILITIES AND GETTING SERVICES INTO THE COMMUNITY WHERE A KID CAN LIVE AT HOME AND GET SERVICES.

THEY ALSO SAY IT'S CHEAPER TO DO IT IN THE COMMUNITY.

JIM: LAST TIME WE WERE WITH YOU, WE WERE OFF FOR THE FOURTH OF JULY WEEK.

PRESIDENT BIDEN AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD YET TO HAVE THEIR DEBATE.

A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN.

YOU'VE WRITTEN TWO LOCAL COLUMNS SAYING THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD GET OUT AND HE'S DONE A LOT OF DAMAGE CONTROL THIS WEEK, TRIED TO RALLY THE TROOPS, BUT YOU FEEL EVEN MORE SO?

>> YEAH, I FELT PRETTY STRONGLY ABOUT IT.

IN FAIRNESS TO THE PRESIDENT, I FELT THAT WAY IN SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR.

I THINK THAT'S WHEN THE PARTY AND THE PRESIDENT SHOULD HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION, HINDSIGHT 2020.

I DO THINK THAT DONALD TRUMP THIS MONTH'S IS SURPRISE YOU, I THINK HE'S AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO THE COUNTRY AND DEMOCRACY.

THE PROBLEM FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN IS -- RIGHT NOW HE DOESN'T PASS THE I TEST.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT MEDIA SPIN AND EDITORIALS.

THIS IS ABOUT WHEN VOTERS LOOK AT HIM, THE COMMENDATION OF HIS SIGNIFICANTLY ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE -- THE WORST EXAMPLE WAS AT THE BANQUET, BUT IS NOT HIS ONLY.

-- AT THE DEBATE, BUT IT'S NOT HIS ONLY.

THREE QUARTERS OF VOTERS EVEN BEFORE THE DEBATE BUT HE WOULD BE TOO OLD TO SERVE EFFECTIVELY ANOTHER TERM.

THE PROBLEM IS -- IN A RACE LIKE THAT, TRUMP IS VERY UNPOPULAR, COULD HE WIN?

SURE.

IS HE LIKELY TO WIN?

NO.

IS IT FAIR TO THE COUNTRY?

CAN ANYONE SORTA PICTURE HIM GOVERNING FOR FOUR YEARS?

HARD TO SEE.

IT STILL TIME TO CHANGE CANDIDATES AND HAVE OPEN CONVENTION.

>> I THING HE STILL HAS TIME TO MAKE A DECISION, BUT NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT HIS TRACK RECORD.

>> HE TALKS ABOUT IT A LOT.

>> HE TALKS ABOUT UP AT THE PARTY HAS TO START TALKING ABOUT IT.

>> EVERY DAY THEY TALK ABOUT HIS LIMITATIONS IS ONE LESS DAY TO EITHER FOCUS ON TRUMP OR, AS THEY SAY -- LOOK, IT'S TRITE, ELECTIONS ARE ABOUT THE FUTURE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING HE HAS DONE A GREAT JOB, BUT DO I SEE HIM AS BEING ABLE TO DO THIS?

>> TWO QUICK THINGS.

ONE, HE'S NOT A GREAT JOB AT THE VOTERS DON'T AGREE.

HE HAS A 40% APPROVAL RATING.

APPROVAL RATING IS WHAT CORRELATES MOSTLY WITH REELECTION.

I THINK HE'S NOT A GREAT JOB, DAVID THINKS HE'S DONE A GREAT JOB, BUT MOST THINK HE'S DONE A GREAT JOB AND PART OF IT IS HE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THE APPROVAL RATING TO GO UP.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIM, THAT'S THE RIGHT KIND OF REPORT.

THE BRITISH FAMOUSLY THANKED WINSTON CHURCHILL FOR HIS RAGE BY ELECTING SOMEBODY ELSE.

STEPH: I WANT TO NAIL YOU DOWN, DO YOU THINK HE SHOULD STAY IN THE RACE?

>> THAT'S A DECISION FOR HIM TO MAKE.

STEPH: WHAT DO YOU THINK, YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT MARK QUEK SHOULD HE STAY AND BASED ON HIS RECORD?

YES.

STEPH: INTERESTING.

AS AN OBSERVER, AS A WORD I DON'T HAVE A STANCE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, CAN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY GET BEHIND A NEW NOMINEE THAT THEY DID NOT SELECT?

THE PRIMARIES ARE OVER.

THERE IS NO CHANCE TO GO BACK TO THE VOTERS AND HAVE THEM SELECT BETWEEN KAMALA HARRIS, GAVIN NEWSOM, OR WHO ELSE?

WHAT OTHER NAMES ARE OUT THERE IS POTENTIAL CANDIDATES?

VOTERS WON'T GET TO DECIDE.

JIM: THE RULE SAY THEY CAN BUT THERE IS A LOT BETWEEN HERE AND THERE.

STEPH: RIGHT BUT WILL THE PUBLIC IT BEHIND A NOMINATED PIC?

JIM: MY GOT IS THAT THERE IS NO EASY ANSWER.

NOBODY RAN AGAINST JOE BIDEN IN PART BECAUSE HE WAS THE INCUMBENT PRESIDENT AND HE DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF, OF, OF SORTA FORCING THE OPPOSITION OUT OF THE RACE.

IT WASN'T A REAL PRIMARY.

HE RAN AGAINST HU, DEAN PHILLIPS?

JIM: JUST LIKE BERNIE IN 2016?

>> WELL, HE LOST.

THAT WAS A REAL CONTEST BETWEEN THOSE TWO.

SO, DO I THINK -- BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP IS VIEWED BY.

-- DEMOCRATS AS SUCH AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT, THE PARTY WILL UNIFY -- IT'LL BE MESSY, WHAT DID THEY SAY?

I'M A DEMOCRAT?

STILL TRUE.

BUT THE DEMOCRATS AT THE CONVENTION, YOU COULD HAVE A DEBATE BEFOREHAND WITH CONVENTION DELEGATES VOTING.

ANYBODY, KAMALA HARRIS WILL PROBABLY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN EDGE ON EVERYBODY ELSE BUT WE HAVE SOME VERY GOOD GOVERNORS.

WHOEVER COMES OUT OF THAT CONVENTION?

I'M CONFIDENT THAT DEMOCRATS WILL UNIFY BEHIND THEM AND HAVE A MUCH BETTER CHANCE.

ANY PERSON UNDER 60 CAN PROBABLY BEAT TRUMP.

STEPH: UNDER 60.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF, IF IT HAD BEEN ANY OTHER CANDIDATE BUT CLINTON IN 2016 IT WOULD HAVE -- THEY WOULD HAVE BEAT TRUMP.

MY OPINION, IF SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE PACKAGE.

I WONDER IF IT'S THE SAME THING NOW, IF YOU HAD A STRONGER PERSON THAN JOE BIDEN, DOES TRUMP GET IN TWICE BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS FAILED TO PUT UP SOMEONE ACCEPTABLE?

>> IT'S POSSIBLE BUT THERE'S ALSO THE FUNDRAISING PIECE.

IF THE DEMOCRATS ARE THINKING ABOUT GOING WITH SOMEONE OUTSIDE OF THE BIDEN HARRIS TICKET, THAT INDIVIDUAL WILL HAVE A TOUGH TIME RAISING THE MONEY NECESSARY FOR A VICTORY IN NOVEMBER.

>> I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.

GEORGE CLOONEY, ROB REINER, TODAY, ASIDE FROM BEING ACTORS AND DIRECTORS, THEY ARE BIG CONTRIBUTORS.

THEY CALLED ON HIM TO GET OUT.

THE CONTRIBUTOR CLASS IS VOTING BY NOT SPENDING MONEY NOW.

THE MONEY THAT HE HAS CAN GO TO A SUPER PAC.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE NO REAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS, BUT IT CAN ALL GET SPENT ON BEHALF OF BIDEN.

A TON OF MONEY FOR A NEW CANDIDATE, THEY WOULD RAISE MAME -- WAY MORE MONEY THAN JOE BIDEN COULD POSSIBLY RAISE RIGHT NOW AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS HE IS ON TRACK TO LOSE THIS RACE.

DOESN'T AND HE CANNOT WIN.

HE WAS BEHIND DONALD TRUMP, 55% OF THE COUNTRY DOESN'T LIKE, BEFORE THE DEBATE.

IT'S MOVED A LITTLE MORE TO TRUMP.

AS LONG AS HE CAN'T PASS THE EYE TEST, WHICH CAN'T, HE'S GOT A BIG UPHILL FIGHT.

JIM: I'M SURE WE WILL TALK ABOUT THIS FOR WEEKS THE COME.

LET'S DO OUTRAGE OR KUDOS.

STEPH: I WAS NOT A FAN OF THE FORMAT OF THE DEBATE.

THIS IS NOT -- I'M A FAN OF THE TWO PEOPLE WHO MODERATED THE DEBATE, BUT THEY CHOSE A FORMAT WHERE THEY DID NOT PUSH BACK.

WHEN THE CANDIDATES LIED OR JUST -- DEFLECTED.

ANSWERED A QUESTION THAT THEY WERE NOT ASKED.

WHEN SO OFF-TOPIC.

SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE WHEN THE MODERATORS JUMP INTO OFTEN, BUT IN MY OPINION YOU HAVE TO JUMP IN A LITTLE AND SAY -- THAT WASN'T TRUE, MR. PRESIDENT, OR ASK THEM TO ACTUALLY ANSWER THE RUSSIAN.

I THINK IT MADE FOR A DEBATE THAT WAS DIFFICULT TO WATCH.

THEY SHOULD LOOK AT TIM AND TED.

YOUR FORMER COLLEAGUE.

STEPH: ABSOLUTELY AGREE.

JIM: DAVID, WELCOME BACK, YOU ARE NOW HEADING THE PROVIDENCE FOUNDATION.

TELL US ABOUT THAT BRIEFLY.

DAVID: THE PROVIDENCE FOUNDATION IS MADE UP OF 150 MEMBERS WITH BUSINESSES, INDIVIDUALS IN NONPROFITS AS MEMBERS AND WE ADVOCATE FOR THE DOWNTOWN.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE DOWNTOWN, THE IS THIS IS OUR THRIVING, AND THAT WE ARE CREATING AND SUPPORTING INSTITUTIONS THAT SUPPORT A LOT OF THE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IN DOWNTOWN PROVIDENCE.

WHATEVER HAPPENS THERE, THE RIPPLE EFFECT CAN BE PROFOUND ON THE REST OF THE STATE IN THE 24 OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY.

I'M PROUD TO BE HEADING UP THE PROVIDENCE FOUNDATION AND A LOT OF THAT WORK.

JIM: OUTRAGE OR KUDO?

DAVID: I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN OUTREACH -- OUTRAGE, BUT DAMMING ALAN WROTE A PIECE TODAY ON WATERFIRE, STRUGGLING, AND BRIAN EVANS, FANTASTIC ARTIST IN THE CITY, CONTRIBUTED HERS -- HIS LIFELONG WORK TO THE DOWNTOWN AND WATERFIRE.

THEY ARE AGAIN STRUGGLING INITIALLY AND BASED ON THE COMMENTARY PIECE TODAY, WITH FINANCIAL STRUGGLES, IF THEY MOVE OUT OF DOWNTOWN WERE CEASED TO EXIST, IT COULD BE PROBLEMATIC FOR OUR BUSINESSES, FOR TOURISM, AND FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO VISIT.

JIM: ROB, YOU GET THE LAST ONE.

ROB: MY OUTRAGE IS -- SOMEHOW IT ALWAYS GETS DOWN TO THIS, DONALD TRUMP'S TREATMENT OF JANUARY 6 AS RECENTLY AS YESTERDAY.

EVEN FOR SOMEBODY WHO CREATES HIS OWN REALITY AND DOESN'T LIVE IN REALITY AND TELLS A LIE PERMITTED, HIS JANUARY 6 FRAMING IS OUTRAGEOUS.

HE'S CALLING THE PEOPLE THAT BEAT UP COPS, DEFECATED ON THE CAPITAL THE HOSTAGES THAT HE WANTS -- THESE ARE THE HOSTAGES HE WANTS TO FREE.

HE WANTS TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HE DID, SITE DIRECTION, THEN WATCHED IT ON TV TO CHEER FOR A FEW HOURS LATER JIM: OK, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

IT'S THE DOG DAYS OF SUMMER AND WE HAVE A LOT GOING ON.

WE WILL COME BACK NEXT WEEK AND HAVE A FULL ANALYSIS OF EVERYTHING GOING ON.

COME BACK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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