>> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," THE LONG-AWAITED SEDIMENT OF THE PROVIDENCE -- SETTLEMENT OF THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS CONTRACT.

AND, RETHINKING MASKING POLICIES.

WE WILL TELL YOU WHAT GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS TO SAY.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS.

I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM ON RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US ON THE PANEL, BROWN UNIVERSITY POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR WENDY SCHILLER .

ATTORNEY AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DAN REILLY AND POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR SCOTT MACKAY.

WELCOME EVERYBODY.

WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING PART OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.

GOVERNOR MCKEE'S ANNOUNCEMENT THIS WEEK WAS BIG NEWS, BUT WITH LITTLE DETAILS.

AFTER SHAKING UP THE NEGOTIATING TEAM, THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED THE STATE ACHIEVED SOMETHING IT HAD FAILED TO DO UNDER HIS PREDECESSOR, STRIKE AN AGREEMENT WITH THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS UNION.

GOOD NEWS, BUT IT WAS WHERE IS THE BEEF.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS MORE AGGRAVATING.

IT WAS GOOD TO HEAR, BUT WE WANT DETAILS.

WENDY: THESE ARE TAXPAYER DOLLARS.

IT IS PUBLIC SCHOOL.

WE ALL WANT THESE LABOR DISPUTES TO BE RESOLVED, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION, COMING OUT OF A VERY DIFFICULT YEAR FOR PARENTS, TEACHERS, AND STUDENTS.

WHY ANNOUNCE A DEAL AND SAY, I CANNOT GIVE YOU DETAILS?

WHAT YOU MEANYOU CANNOT GIVE US DETAILS?

WE ARE PAYING FOR THIS.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE WISDOM OF THAT.

I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH EL ORZA SAYING I GOT THIS, STOP CRITICIZING ME.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS IN IT.

JIM: WE NEVER KNOW UNTIL THE MEMBERSHIP AGREES AND THERE COULD BE SOME FACTIONS AND SENIORITY HAS BEEN A BIG DEAL.

YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD HAVE TO AT LEAST HAVE MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON BOARD.

>> YOU DON'T WANT TO GO PUBLIC WITH SOMETHING YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE, WHETHER YOU ARE A LEGISLATIVE LEADER OR UNION LEADER, IT WILL SEND -- SIGNAL WEAKNESS IF IT GOES DOWN BAD.

THE GOVERNOR IS LOOKING FOR A QUICK WIN.

THE LEGISLATURE IS OUT OF SESSION AND SO HE HAS A BIT OF A VACUUM HE CAN FILL WITH SOME NEWS.

I THINK IT WAS THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE JUMPING THE GUN OF THE ANNOUNCEMENT.

ONCE YOU HAVE A RATIFIED CONTRACT, ABSOLUTELY.

YOU HAVE RESOLVED SOMETHING THAT IS OUTSTANDING FOR A LONG TIME.

JIM: THE MEMBERS HAD NOT EVEN SEEN IT.

>> THERE'S NOTHING FOR THEM TO TALK ABOUT.

THERE IS NOTHING FOR THEM TO ARGUE ABOUT, THINGS THEY DON'T LIKE THAT THEY CAN GO PUBLIC WITH.

COMMUNICATION IS ONE FOR THE GOVERNOR, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU ARE NOT ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING.

JIM: DO YOU HAVE ANY INTEL, SCOTT?

SCOTT: WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE SPECIFICS.

WE ALL KNOW THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

HOWEVER, I THINK YOU ANNOUNCE SOMETHING LIKE THIS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT IT TO LEAK OUT BEFORE YOU HAVE TALKED TO THE UNION FOLKS AND BEFORE YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO WIN A RATIFICATION VOTE.

THAT UNION, UNLIKE SOME OTHERS, HAS BEEN PRETTY PRO-LEADERSHIP.

WHEN THE LEADERSHIP MAKES A DEAL, THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS USUALLY GO ALONG.

I AM INTERESTED IN WONDERING ABOUT DIVERSITY.

WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A SITUATION IN PROVIDENCE WHERE 90% OF THE KIDS FOR MINORITY FOLKS -- ARE MINORITY FOLKS AND THEN YOU HAVE 80% OF THE TEACHERS WHO ARE MAJORITY WHITE.

I AM WONDERING HOW YOU CAN CHANGE THIS GIVEN THE SENIORITY RULES.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, YOU HAVE TO GIVE A LOT OF CREDIT TO CHIEF CLEMENTS AND COMMISSIONER PERRY FOR HOW DIVERSE THE PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS GOTTEN.

I UNDERSTAND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE THERE BECAUSE TEACHERS HAVE TO TEACH LONGER IN THE SYSTEM TO GET THEIR PENSIONS, THEIR FULL PENSIONS THAN COPS AND FIREFIGHTERS.

I GET ALL THAT.

I AM JUST WONDERING THE SPECIFICS, HOW THIS WILL AFFECT HIRING.

JIM: THEY HAVE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT THIS.

WENDY: SCOTT'S POINT IS WELL TAKEN.

YOU CAN SELL THIS PACKAGE TO THE PUBLIC IF IT HAS STRONGER, ACTIVE MEASURES TO INCREASE DIVERSITY IN THE TEACHING POOL WITH PROTECTIONS FOR SENIORITY.

SOMEHOW, THEY HAVE GOT TO HAVE STRUCK A BALANCE BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE NOT, YOU KNOW THAT PEOPLE LIKE NELLIE GORBEA AND JORGE ELORZA WHO MAY OR MAY NOT RUN FOR GOVERNOR, IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, THAT WILL BE A WEAKNESS IN THIS AGREEMENT.

YOU EXPECT THAT THERE ARE MORE THINGS STIPULATED NOW THAN EVER BEFORE.

THAT IS WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO SEE.

JIM: IT DROVE ME NUTS.

JORGE ELORZA'S OFFICE PUT OUT A STATEMENT THAT SAID, "I AM GLAD BECAUSE WE BROUGHT IN THE STATE.'

HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

IF HE USES THE WORD TRANSFORMATIONAL ONE MORE TIME, I'M GOING TO SCREAM.

THEY ALWAYS SAID THE CONTRACT WILL BE THE FOUNDATION FOR WHERE WE GO.

WE HAVE LOST TWO YEARS.

WE HAVE LOST GENERATIONS WITH THE KIDS.

IF THIS REALLY IS A TRANSFORMATIONAL CONTRACT, YOU WONDER WHEN IT IS GOING TO FALL INTO PLACE.

SCOTT: THE GOVERNMENT HAS FULL OWNERSHIP, SO IT IS GOING TO TAKE MORE THAN A CONTRACT.

THAT WAS GOING TO HAVE TO HAPPEN ANYWAYS AND IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR SO LONG THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT THAT TO BED.

BUT THERE ARE SO MANY LARGER ISSUES THAT THE GOVERNOR OWNS, BUT THE MAYOR CANNOT WALK AWAY FROM BECAUSE THE MAYOR DID NOT SUCCEED IN THAT AREA BECAUSE THE STATE DID HAVE TO COME IN.

YOU HAVE THE GOVERNOR HAVING TO GET RESOLUTION AND COME UP WITH A PLAN FAR BEYOND THE LABOR AGREEMENT.

WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT ACHIEVEMENT IN THE SCHOOLS WITH GOVERNOR MCKEE, THE QUESTION OF CHARTER AND THEIR INVOLVEMENT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE A BIG QUESTION, ESPECIALLY GIVEN HIS TRACK RECORD ON THE ISSUE.

THIS IS VERY MUCH STILL THE FIRST CHAPTER ON THIS STORY.

IT IS GOING TO PLAY INTO THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, ESPECIALLY IF MAYOR ELORZA JUMPS IN.

HE CANNOT CLAIM CREDIT, BUT THERE IS A LOT THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS TO DO AS WELL.

>> THERE IS A POLITICAL CALCULUS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, IT IS MADE UP OF LIBERALS, LABOR, AND LATINOS.

WHAT MCKEE IS TRYING TO DO, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY, IS TO REPAIR SOME OF THE RELATIONS HE HAS WITH ORGANIZED LABOR IN THIS STATE AND YOU CANNOT GET THE AFL-CIO ENDORSEMENT AND I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF THEY SIT OUT THE PRIMARY, BUT YOU CANNOT GET THERE ENDORSEMENT GIVEN THAT TWO THIRDS MAJORITY YOU NEED TO WIN THEIR ENDORSEMENT AND WE ALL KNOW THAT SETH IS CLOSE TO A LOT OF THE TOP LABOR FOLKS IN THE STATE.

THERE IS A POLITICAL CALCULUS HERE IN THE SAME WAY THERE WAS WITH THE NEW LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

I THINK THAT MICKEY IS TRYING TO POSITION HIMSELF -- MCKEE IS TRYING TO POSITION HIMSELF.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S RACE?

WENDY: I AM WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

IT MIGHT BE A GOOD YEAR FOR REPUBLICANS NATIONALLY.

A MIDTERM ELECTION WITH A DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT USUALLY IS AND I THINK THERE IS LEFT OVER ENERGY AMONGST REPUBLICANS.

SOMETIMES IT GOES TO ANGER ABOUT THE TRUNK DEFEAT.

BUT IN GENERAL -- ABOUT THE TRUMP DEFEAT.

BUT IN GENERAL, THERE IS ENERGY.

I AM WAITING TO SEE IF THE DIVISION WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PRIMARY, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A DEMOCRATIC STATE.

WE ARE WAITING TO SEE WHO JUMPS IN WHEN.

MAGAZINES MAKE -- MAGAZINE IS RAISING A LOT OF MONEY.

MCKEE HAS A LOT OF MONEY.

HOW LONG DO YOU WAIT BEFORE YOU TRY TO LINE UP?

YOU HAVE AN INCUMBENT GOVERNOR WITH NOT A LOT OF POWER -- JIM: WHO RAISED $300,000 LAST QUARTER.

WENDY: WHO HAS POWER OVER THE NEXT COMING YEAR WHO WAS TRYING TO VISION -- TO POSITION HIMSELF TO APPEAL TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE.

DAN: I THOUGHT IT WAS REFRESHING THAT GOVERNOR MCKEE VETOED THE AUTOBODY BILL AND TOOK A LOT OF MONEY.

THERE OFTEN IS A QUID PRO QUO.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN, BUT THEY WERE SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTORS AND HE SAID NO.

SCOTT: BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE WHO WERE ALSO BE CONTRIBUTORS.

THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, FOR INSTANCE.

SOMETIMES IT IS YOUR SPECIAL INTEREST AGAINST MY SPECIAL INTEREST.

JIM: SUE SANKEY SAT IN YOUR SEAT.

THIS IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN SEAT.

OF COURSE, TED NEASE HE WAS IN YOUR SEAT AND SAID, CHAIRWOMAN, WHO DO WE HAVE COMING UP?

SHE SAID WE WILL HAVE A CANDIDATE.

IT WILL BE A GOOD CANDIDATE.

YOU THINK ABOUT BLAKE PHILIPPI, ALTHOUGH HE SEEMED AMBIVALENT.

AND THEN WHAT WE SEE, I DON'T KNOW.

DO YOU GET ANY SENSE?

DAN: WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE LAST OF MAYOR FUNGOS AND HE HAS INTEREST IN DOING SOMETHING.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS ANOTHER RUN AT A GOVERNOR, BUT WE WILL BE HEARING MORE FROM HIM AND THE SAME WITH BLAKE.

BLAKE IS IN A POSITION WHERE HE NATURALLY HAS THE MEGAPHONE AS THE SENATOR IN THE SENATE, ONE OF THE TWO RANKING REPUBLICAN'S IN THE STATE.

WE WILL HEAR FROM BLAKE IN THE NEXT SESSION.

YOU MAY HEAR FROM THEM IN THE FALL.

IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF THIS INTEREST LIES IN CONTINUING TO PILE OUT THE CAUCUS OR RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

AS THE CHAIRMAN HAS SAID BEFORE, WE MAYOR VERY WELL HAVE THAT DONKEY CHERRY TYPE CANDIDATE COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK.

AT THIS POINT, -- WE MAY VERY WELL HAVE THAT TYPE OF CANDIDATE COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK.

AT THIS POINT, WE MAY SHAKE UP THE RACE.

SOMEONE WHO WE MAY NOT KNOW THEIR NAME, BUT IT DOES NOT TACK -- DOES NOT TAKE A LOT.

THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A FIERCE PRIMARY.

THEY WILL BEAT EACH OTHER UP.

JIM: WE CAN HARDLY WAIT.

SCOTT: THE WINNER -- DAN: THE WINNER DOES NOT NEED THAT MUCH.

IT IS EARLY AT THIS POINT.

JIM: AS THE RESIDENT HISTORIAN, REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS HAVE DONE PRETTY WELL.

YOU SUBTRACT OUT RAIMONDO, IT WAS THEM FOR THE BETTER PART OF SEVERAL DECADES.

SCOTT: I THINK WE WILL KNOW FAIRLY SOON WHO IS IN THIS REPUBLICANS FROM BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO START RAISING MONEY AT SOME POINT.

YOU CANNOT WAIT FOREVER ANYMORE.

THAT IS NOT THE WAY POLITICS WORKS AND IT IS GOING TO TAKE SOME MONEY.

THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS I CANNOT THINK OF ANOTHER STATE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU CAN GET A MAJOR PARTY NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR WITH 15,000 VOTES IN A PRIMARY.

MAYBE VERMONT.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU -- JIM: IS ANYONE ELSE ON YOUR RADAR SCREEN FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

WENDY: I WAS THINKING ABOUT BLAKE ALSO.

SCOTT: HE IS AN ATTRACTIVE CANDIDATE.

WENDY: HE COMES ACROSS WELL ON TELEVISION, VIDEO, SOCIAL MEDIA.

AGAIN, AT THE MOMENT IT LOOKS TO BE A VERY GOOD YEAR FOR REPUBLICANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHAT DOES THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION DO WITH RHODE ISLAND?

DO THEY SAY FORGET IT OR DO WE START TO SEE THEM HOLDING FUNDRAISERS AND TRYING TO CULTIVATE?

REPUBLICANS, IF THEY GAIN ENERGY, THEY MAY WANT TO SWEEP ON EVERY LEVEL AND ENHANCE THE POWER STRUCTURE THEY HAVE FOR THE NEXT DECADE IF THEY DO WELL IN 2022 AT THE STATE LEVEL.

IF THERE IS MONEY AND VIABILITY, THE KEY IS BETTER POSITIONED AGAINST FUNG THAN ANY OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES BECAUSE IT WILL BE EXPERIENCED POLITICIAN AGAINST EXPERIENCED POLITICIAN.

MCKEE IS TRYING TO CARVE OUT THE MODERATE ROAD.

DAN: IN THE JOHN ROBERTS AIRES, IF HE HAD A FOUR RAY RICE -- FOUR WAY RACE, IT WAS VERY CLOSE AND THAT RACE.

SCOTT: EVERYBODY WHO LOSES SAYS THAT.

IF I ONLY HAD ANOTHER WEEK.

I THINK A MODERATE CAN WIN IN NEW ENGLAND.

PHIL SCOTT IN VERMONT.

CHARLIE BAKER HAS BEEN ONE OF THE MORE POPULAR GOVERNORS IN THE COUNTRY IF YOU LOOK AT HIS APPROVAL RATINGS.

I THINK REPUBLICANS CANNOT HAVE A REPLAY OF WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME YOU HAVE PATRICIA MORGAN AND JOE TRAILLO ON THE OUTS.

THEY WERE SO UPSET WITH TRILLO.

SCOTT: THINK OF ALL THAT TIME AND ENERGY.

IT IS A WASTE OF TIME.

DAN: THE OTHER TAKE AWAY IS THAT GINA RAIMONDO BUILT A JUGGERNAUT OF AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

I CAN RECOGNIZE IT AND RESPECT IT.

JIM: SHE FINALLY GOT OVER 50%.

DAN: SHE HAD NEVER BEEN STRONG LITERALLY.

SHE WAS NEVER A 60% CANDIDATE.

SHE KNEW THAT.

WE ALWAYS KNEW SHE WAS A GREAT FUNDRAISER.

THE QUESTION WAS WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THAT MONEY.

FOR A WHILE, HER CAMPAIGN WAS A BLACK BOX.

AT THE END, WE REALIZED SHE IDENTIFIED AND GOT OUT EVERY SINGLE QUOTE SHE NEEDED TO DO, WHICH IF YOU SPENT $2 MILLION, YOU SHOULD DO.

BUT IT GOES TO SHOW THAT YOU HAD A PRIMARY, YOU HAD NATIONAL POLITICS COMING INTO PLAY, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IF YOU RAISE THE MONEY AND BUILDING CAMPAIGN AND EXECUTE TACTICALLY, YOU CAN WIN AND DO THAT AS A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

SCOTT: WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS CAMPAIGNS MATTER DAN: CAMPAIGNS DO MATTER.

JIM: WHAT IS THE LATEST THE REPUBLICAN WOULD HAVE TO DO TO START TO REALLY BE SEROUS AND RAISE MONEY?

SCOTT: IT DEPENDS.

IT DEPENDS WHETHER YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO SELF FUND OR NOT.

THAT IS THE CRUCIAL ASPECT.

DAN: THIS WAS THE 10TH ANNIVERSARY OF BRUCE ON WHEN'S DEATH -- BRUCE SUNDLAND'S DEATH.

JIM: RHODE ISLAND, IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATS, 17 PEOPLE IN THE HOSPITAL, ONE DEATH.

OUR NUMBERS ARE DOWN, BUT NATIONALLY WE ARE HAVING A PROBLEM AND I WONDER.

GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS SAID I AM NOT GOING TO BE OPPOSING ANY RESTRICTIONS.

I THINK THAT SHIP HAS SAILED ON KIDS WEARING MASKS IN SCHOOLS.

THERE WAS SOME QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

THE AMERICAN PEDIATRIC ASSOCIATION IS PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE CDC.

I AM WONDERING IF RHODE ISLAND IS A GOOD POSITION COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY, BUT IS DISCONCERTING AS YOU LOOK AOUND OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY?

DAN: AS WE HAVE MONITORED THIS ENTIRE TIME, WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON HOSPITALIZATIONS.

WE HAVE TO MONITOR DEATHS, BUT WE DON'T WANT IT TO GET TO THAT POINT.

WE HAVE TO SEE OUR EMERGENCY ROOMS.

WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT IS THE SYSTEM'S CAPACITY TO MANAGE THE CONTINUED FALLOUT AND THESE VARIOUS AT THEY COME OUT.

THE DELTA WILL NOT BE THE LAST.

AS WE INCREASE VACCINATION NUMBERS, WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO SEE THAT NUMBER BE MANAGED.

OUR NEXT STEP IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE BOOSTER SHOTS AND COMING UP WITH A WAY TO CONTINUE THE IMMUNIZATIONS AGAINST THE VARIANTS AS THEY DEVELOP AND AS THEY ARE ABLE TO DEVELOP THE BOOSTER SHOTS.

THIS WILL BECOME MORE LIKE A BAD SEASONAL FLU THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE MANAGED CONTINUOUSLY AS OPPOSED TO SOMETHING LIKE POLIO, WHICH WE HAVE CONVINCED OURSELVES IN THIS COUNTRY WE CAN ERADICATE SOMETHING AND IN ONE GENERATION BE DONE WITH IT.

AS LONG AS WE CONTINUE TO MAAGE IT AND KEEP HOSPITALIZATIONS DOWN AND MONITOR AND PROTECT VULNERABLE POPULATIONS, WE HAVE TO GET ON WITH LIFE AS WE HAVE BEEN DOING.

WENDY: THAT SOUNDS GREAT.

I CANNOT DISAGREE WITH THAT.

HOWEVER, RHODE ISLAND WANTS TO RESUME.

NEW ENGLAND IS A BUBBLE, DOING PHENOMENALLY WELL.

IT IS THE BEST REGION OF THE COUNTRY ON ALL THESE INDICATORS, VACCINATION, ILLNESS, AND HOSPITALIZATION.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME TO ENGLAND IN THE FALL.

WE WANT THEM TO COME FROM EVERYWHERE.

IF THEY ARE GOING TO COME HERE, THEN WE RISK FOR THOSE POPULATIONS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN VACCINATED, WE WILL PROBABLY REACH 80% BY SEPTEMBER, EARLY OCTOBER.

BUT PEOPLE COMING IN WHO ARE UNVACCINATED, ALWAYS THAT CONSTANT THREAT OF REINFECTION VERSUS THE ECONOMIC HEALTH OF THE STATE.

MCKEE IS GOING TO DECIDE ON THE SIDE OF THE ECONOMY AND WE HAVE TO BUILD US BACK OUT, BUT THERE IS A THREAT BECAUSE WE DEPEN ON TOURISM, NOT JUST FOR THE SUMMER, BUT ALSO THE FALL.

JIM: THE ECONOMY HAS BEEN CAMOUFLAGED BY THE FLOOD OF MONY COMING IN.

WHAT REALLY IS THE ECONOMIC STRENGTH OR HEALTH OF THE STATE?

SCOTT: I THINK THEY ARE LINKED.

THE VACCINATION RATES ARE LINKED TO REOPENING THE ECONOMY AND REALLY BRINGING THINGS BACK.

I REALLY DO NOT LIKE PEOPLE WHO TALK ABOUT THIS WITH THE SEASONAL FLU.

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

IT IS NOT AT ALL LIKE THE SEASONAL FLU.

THE SEASONAL FLU CANNOT BE TRANSMITTED UNLESS YOU HAVE THE FLU.

UNFORTUNATELY, COVID-19 CAN BE TRANSMITTED EVEN WITHOUT SYMPTOMS.

I THINK VACCINATION, VACCINATION, VACCINATION HAS TO BE THE MESSAGE.

AND WE ARE SEEING THE HAVOC ACROSS THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

SOUTHWEST MISSOURI AS OF YESTERDAY, YOU HAD TO WAIT 48 HOURS TO GET INTO AN EMERGENCY ROOM.

GOD BLESS YOU IF YOU HAVE A HEART ATTACK OR A CAR ACCIDENT.

THIS DELTA VARIANT, WE ARE SEEING SOME OF THE RIGHT-WINGERS GET SOME RELIGION ON THIS.

I NOTICED THAT CONGRESSMAN'S GOALIES FROM LOUISIANA -- CONGRESSMAN SCALISE FROM LOUISIANA WHERE THEY HAVE HAD A 900% INCREASE IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS OF THE DELTA VARIANT DECIDED TO GET VACCINATED.

>> ALL POLITICS IS LOCAL, RIGHT?

WENDY: THE GOVERNOR OF MISSOURI IS PRETTY CONSERVATIVE.

AS CONSERVATIVE AS YOU ARE GOING TO GET.

THAT GOVERNOR ASKED THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE FOR SOME HELP WITH OUTREACH SAYING, WE ARE TRYING TO REACH CONSTITUENCIES.

THERE IS THE RURAL CONSTITUENCY, RURAL WHITE, RURAL BLACK, LATINO CONSTITUENCIES IN CITIES AND DIFFERENT KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO RESPOND TO MESSAGING FROM DIFFERENT PARTIES, DIFFERENT LEADERS.

THE GOVERNOR OF MISSOURI IS LIKE, WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO REACH PEOPLE THAT ARE DEMOCRAT, BUT WE NEED SOME HELP OR WE WILL GET INUNDATED.

THE GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS HAS BEEN PRETTY RESPONSIBLE ABOUT THIS WITH SOME MANDATES AND SOME NOT.

HE IS LIKE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO.

WHAT DO I DO?

PEOPLE ARE DYING.

I WANT TO PREVENT THEM FROM DYING.

SCOTT: YOU ARE RIGHT.

I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO GET BETTER WITHOUT BETTER OUTREACH.

ONE THING THAT YOU DO POINT OUT THAT IS TRUE, THIS IS A SPRAWLING DIVERSE, VERY DIFFERENT COUNTRY.

THERE ARE SOME DAYS WHERE YOU THINK WE ARE LIKE TWO DIFFERENT SOCIETIES NOWADAYS WHERE EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL.

THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, FOOTBALL, TAKING A KNEE, WHERE YOU BY YOUR CHICK-FIL-A, WHERE YOU GO TO A FAST FOOD JOINT.

THE CULTURE WARS HAVE TAKEN OVER EVERYTHING AND IT IS SAD TO SEE THIS LEAK INTO VACCINATION AND PUBLIC HEALTH.

JIM: A QUICK PANEL POLL.

DO YOU NOTICE MORE PEOPLE WEARING MASKS INDOORS AND HAVE YOU RETHOUGHT WHETHER YOU WILL BE WEARING A MASK INDOORS?

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DO ALREADY, BUT WHETHER YOU TO WALMART OR WHEREVER, HAS YOUR THINKING CHANGED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS?

WENDY: I HAVE BEEN WEARING MASKS IN SUPERMARKETS, DRUGSTORES -- JIM: TO BEGIN WITH, YOU HAVE BEEN DOING THAT?

WENDY: YES.

THERE IS A STRICT VACCINATION REQUIREMENT AND I AM TEACHING.

I AM TEACHING SOCIALLY DISTANCE IN A VERY BIG HALL WITH STUDENTS.

HONESTLY, I HAVE GONE WITHOUT A MASS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

JIM: DID YOU NOTICE MORE PEOPLE WEARING THEM INDOORS?

WENDY: I HAVE NOT YET ON CAMPUS BECAUSE WE HAVE A 97% VACCINATION RATE.

JIM: WHEN YOU GO TO THE GROCERY STORE?

WENDY: I HAVE NOTICED THE CLERK IN THE GROCERY STORE.

THEY TOOK THEIR MASKS OFF AND THEN THEY PUT THEM BACK ON.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM CONTINUING TO WEAR THEM AS A MATTER OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY.

YOU ARE VACCINATED, BUT ARE YOU INFECTED?

COULD YOU GIVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE?

I DON'T WANT TO TAKE A CHANCE.

JIM: WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN?

DAN: I DON'T THINK I'VE SEEN AN INCREASE IN PEOPLE WEARING MASKS AND I DON'T PLAN ON PUTTING IT ON ANYMORE.

I AM VACCINATED.

I DON'T SEE WHY I HAVE TO.

VACCINATIONS WORK.

I BELIEVE IN THEM.

I DON'T KNOW WHY I HAVE TO GO AROUND WITH A MASK AND DIFFICULTY BREATHING IN THE SUMMER HEAT.

WENDY: JUST TO BE CLEAR, VACCINATIONS WORK FOR THE MOST PART, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO CONTRACT IT, NOT HAVE ANY SYMPTOMS, AND PASS IT ON.

DIFFICULT IF YOU ARE VACCINATED.

SCOTT: THERE IS A PERCEPTION BECAUSE AS PEOPLE ARE PUTTING ON THE MASKS, WHY DO WE PUT ON THE MASKS?

TO PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE.

THERE IS A MENTALITY FOR SOME PEOPLE, IT IS GOING TO PROTECT ME.

I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS AND PEOPLE ARE BREATHING ON ME.

MAYBE IF YOU HAVE AN N95, MAYBE.

I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO BUT THERE MASKS ON AND THINKING, I'M GOING TO PROTECT SOMEBODY ELSE.

DAN: I DO SEE PEOPLE AROUND WITH MASKS AND I DON'T JUDGE THEM.

IF YOU WANT TO WEAR THAT, FINE.

THEY MAY HAVE AN UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITION.

I WOULD NOT JUDGE THEM FROM WEARING A MASK AND IT MAKES SENSE IF THEY WEAR AND THEY SHOULD.

BUT BETWEEN VACCINATIONS AND KNOWING YOUR OWN HEALTH CONDITIONS AND PEOPLE THAT ARE MORE AT RISK THAN OTHERS, WEAR THE MASK IF YOU STILL COMFORTABLE.

FOR EVERYONE ELSE, YOU SHOULD GET VACCINATED AND THEN YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WEAR THE MASK.

JIM: IF YOU SEE DAN REILLY AROUND, HE WILL NOT GIVE YOU THE STINK EYE.

HE IS NONJUDGMENTAL.

WENDY: I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY INDICATION THAT ANYBODY CARES.

NOBODY IS GIVING YOU A DIRTY LOOK IF YOU HAVE THE MASKS ON ARE NOT.

SCOTT: IN MEDICAL SETTINGS, I HAD TO GO FOR SOME BLOOD WORK THIS WEEK, JUST ROUTINE, EVERYBODY IS MASKED UP.

MORE CLERKS IN THE STORES ARE WEARING MASKS.

OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK A LOT OF VACCINATED PEOPLE HAVE BECOME PRETTY CONFIDENT ABOUT GOING ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS WITHOUT A MASK.

DAN: STATE BUILDINGS AND COURTS ARE STILL WEARING MASKS.

IF YOU WALK INTO COURT OR A STATE BUILDING, IT IS LIKE THIS IS MARCH OF 2020 OR APRIL 2020.

IT IS LIKE THINGS HAVE NOT CHANGED.

WEARING A MASK, NOT WEARING A MASK REALLY DOES NOT MATTER.

I WOULD HOPE THAT AT SOME POINT CUSTOMER SERVICE IMPROVES A BIT.

JIM: I SEE YOU ARE BACK IN COURT.

DAN: DEPENDING ON THE CALENDAR, DEPENDING ON THE JUDGE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF INNOVATIONS THAT WERE GOOD BECAUSE OF COVID AND THEY DISCOVERED ZOOM AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO COURT FOR A TWO MINUTE HEARING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SCOTT: THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAD CIVIL CASES THAT GOT PUT OFF.

IT IS HARD ENOUGH TO GET YOUR CASE HEARD AND WE HAVE LOST AT LEAST A YEAR.

DAN: CIVIL CASES, JURY TRIALS, GRAND JURY INVESTIGATIONS.

SCOTT: DID THEY TRY TO MOVE THE CRIMINAL STUFF ALONG?

DAN: THEY DID BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO.

YOU HAVE TO PRIORITIZE THOSE CASES BECAUSE THEY ARE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AT STAKE.

THERE IS STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS AT PLAY.

THAT IS WHY IT WAS A POSITIVE STORY COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC IF THERE WAS ONE THAT THE COURTS DID ADOPT OR ADAPT FASTER THAN OTHER GOVERNOR AGENCIES -- GOVERNMENT AGENCIES DID BECAUSE THEY NEED TO AND PRACTICES THAT I HOPE WILL STICK AROUND.

WENDY: THE NEXT ONE IS EMPLOYER MANDATE, REQUIRING ALL EMPLOYEE, STAFF, AND STUDENTS ON CAMPUS TO BE VACCINATED.

I THINK YOU ARE SEEING, THE APPEALS COURT JUST UPHELD IT, UNIVERSITY REQUIREMENT.

THIS IS THE NEXT FRONTIER FOR CORPORATIONS, PRIVATE BUSINESSES.

DO THEY JUST SAY YOU EITHER GET VACCINATED, LIKE THE HOSPITAL IN HOUSTON THAT FIRED HEALTHCARE WORKERS.

IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED, YOU ARE GONE.

THERE MAY BE LITIGATION AGAINST THAT IN THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO ONE YEAR.

DAN: IT IS NOT THAT NOVEL OF AN ARGUMENT.

COURTS HAVE UPHELD THE RIGHT OF EMPLOYERS TO REQUIRE VACCINATIONS, PROVIDED THERE ARE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE FOR RELIGIOUS PROTECTIONS AND THOSE WITH MEDICAL CONDITIONS.

I DON'T THINK THOSE WILL BE ANY DIFFERENT.

JIM: LET'S BEGIN WITH YOU.

SCOTT: MARK -- MINE IS TO BELIEVE THE ANTI-VACCINATION NUTTINESS OF THE CONSERVATIVE MEDIA AND THE PEOPLE AT CPAC CHEERING WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN DID NOT HIT HIS 70%.

I REALLY WISH THAT THE PEOPLE LIKE THE TUCKER CARLSONS AND SOME OF THESE FOLKS AND ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD CALM DOWN AND GET THEIR VACCINATIONS AND UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A REAL PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEM AND IT IS ALSO LINKED TO THE ECONOMY.

DAN: YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED THAT SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE YELLING THE MOST WERE SCOTT: VACCINATED.

-- THE PEOPLE WHO WERE YELLING THE MOST WERE VACCINATED.

SCOTT: I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED.

WENDY: MY OUTRAGE IS GENERAL OUTRAGE AT THE ABANDONMENT OF WHAT WE CALL GOOD BEHAVIOR IN PUBLIC.

GETTING ON A PLANE, FLYING ON A PLANE, LISTENING TO FLIGHT ATTENDANTS, WE HAVE ALL SORTS OF DIFFICULTIES WITH POLICE STOPS AND POLICE VIOLENCE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, POLICE OFFICERS ARE INCREASINGLY AT RISK WHEN THEY PULL YOU OVER FOR SOME SORT OF SPEEDING VIOLATION OR SOMETHING, PARTLY BECAUSE OF GUNS, PARTLY BECAUSE OF JUST BEHAVIOR.

EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE MORE AT RISK FOR AN ALTERCATION OF SOME KIND THAT WILL HURT THEM.

BECAUSE OUR MORAL CODE OR OUR CIVIL CODE SEEMS TO COMPLETELY -- SEEMS TO HAVE COMPLETELY ERODED.

I AM NOT BLAMING DONALD TRUMP.

THIS IS A COMPLICATED THING TO BE RAISED TO SAY BEHAVE A CERTAIN WAY IN PUBLIC.

IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

I DON'T THINK IT IS BRAND-NEW, BUT IT HAS COME TO A FEVER PITCH, NO PUN INTENDED.

WE HAVE TO STOP AND SAY WE HAVE TO REIMPOSE WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO DO IN PUBLIC AND WHAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

JIM: WHO GETS IN FISTFIGHTS ON A PLANE?

GET ON THE PLANE AND GET TO WHERE YOU ARE GOING.

WENDY: THEY ARE NOT SERVING ALCOHOL ON FLIGHTS NOW BECAUSE THEY ARE LIKE FORGET IT, PEOPLE ARE OUT OF CONTROL.

DAN: IT IS AN OUTRAGE SLASH CONCERN.

I KNOW ABOUT ONE MONTH HAS PASSED SINCE WE PASSED THE BUDGET.

WE HAD A 52% INCREASE IN THE STATE BUDGET OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS AND THIS WILL BE THE LANDMINE THAT IS GOING TO STAY UNDER THE SURFACE FOR ANOTHER YEAR OR SO UNTIL IT REALLY BLOWS UP IN THE STATE'S FACE.

IT IS FILLED WITH A TON OF PRODUCT -- FEDERAL MONEY WITH A LOT OF RESTRICTIONS.

YOU CANNOT USE IT FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT.

WE EXTENDED THE BUDGET.

WE KICKED THE CAN ON A LOT OF ISSUES AND PROBLEMS THAT NEEDED TO BE SOLVED AND WE DID NOT REPLACE THAT MONEY IN PROGRAMS WHERE WE COULD FUND ONE-TIME THINGS LIKE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION, SCHOOLS, ONE-TIME PROJECTS.

WE FUNNELED IT ALL INTO OPERATING EXPENSES.

WE ARE SOLICITING IDEAS FOR HOW TO SPEND DOWN THE MONEY.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A FISCAL NIGHTMARE IN THE STATE WHEN THE SPIGOT TURNS OFF.

JIM: I AM SORRY.

THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

WHAT A GREAT PANEL.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

EVEN THOUGH IT IS THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER, IT IS NEVER A DULL MOMENT HERE ON "LIVELY."

NEXT WEEK, WE WILL HAVE DETAILS.

MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE WENDY BACK FOR REACTION TO THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS UNION CONTRACT.

ALWAYS CATCH US CHOSEN MEDIA OUR WEBSITE, TWITTER, OR FACEBOOK.

WE HOPE YOU ARE HAVING A GOOD SUMMER.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

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