[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] >> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" A BIZARRE ENCOUNTER BETWEEN TWO OF THE STATE TOP ELECTED OFFICIALS, OVER THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS UNION CONTRACT.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" FEATURES PROGRAMS.

I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT PBS.

>> JOINING US ON THE PANEL, IAN DONNIS, PABLO RODRIGUEZ, A RETIRED PROFESSOR AT BROWN UNIVERSITY, AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DOREEN COSTA.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S LIVELY.

I AM JIM HUMMEL.

MAYER CONFRONTED MICKEY AS THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS ARE POISED TO VOTE ON A CONTRACT THIS WEEKEND, DETAILS ON THE EXCHANGE AND THE AGREEMENT A LITTLE LATER.

BUT FIRST, THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL DID AN ABOUT-FACE ON THE RECOMMENDATION FOR VACCINATED PEOPLE, SAYING THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO WEARING MASKS IN A HIGHER RISK RIGHTS -- PLACES INDOORS.

RHODE ISLAND HAPPENS TO BE ONE OF THEM BECAUSE OF THE LIBERATION OF THE DELTA VARIANT.

A LOT OF PLACES TO BEGIN HERE.

STARTING IN RHODE ISLAND, YOU SPEAK WITH AUTHORITY, YOU ARE ON COMMITTEES LOOKING AT THIS.

>> THE RATE OF INFECTION, WHICH IS MEASURED BY ONE HAD THOUSAND PEOPLE IN THE STATE, IS ABOUT 76.3%, WHICH IS SUBSTANTIAL.

BETWEEN 50 AND 100 IS CONSIDERED SUBSTANTIAL MSO AFTER 100 IT IS SEVERE.

WE ARE FOUR TIMES THE LEVEL WE WERE ABOUT ONE MONTH AGO.

JIM: AT THE SAME TIME THE HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE A LITTLE UP.

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

AS THE INFECTION RATE GOES UP, THEN HOSPITALIZATIONS WILL GO UP A COUPLE WEEKS LATER THAN THE DEATHS GO UP.

TWO WEEKS LATER.

IT IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR THE CDC MESSAGING TO BE CHANGING BACK AND FORTH.

I THINK THAT HAS BEEN THE PROBLEM NATIONALLY.

IF WE HAD KEPT THE MANDATE FOR INDOORS, IT WOULD BE MUCH LESS CUT HERSCHEL NOW PEOPLE ARE USED TO NOT WEARING THE MASK AGAIN, AND IT IS GOING TO BE VERY CONTROVERSIAL FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO ENFORCE IT.

DOREEN: I'M NOT QUITE SURE THAT CDC KNOWS WHAT TO DO WITH THIS CORONAVIRUS.

THEY ARE TALKING OUT OF BOTH EARS OR WHATEVER.

THEY ARE SAYING GET VACCINATED, GET VACCINATED GREAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WEAR A MASK, YOU AND I HAVE HAD OFF-CAMERA CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ME GETTING A VACCINE.

I WAS ONE OF THE LAST ONES IN MY CIRCLE TO DO IT.

I THOUGHT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO AT THAT POINT AND I WANTED TO PROTECT MYSELF AND MY FAMILY AND IT IS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE CDC TOLD US WHAT TO DO.

NOW I AM FULLY VACCINATED, AND I MAY POSSIBLY HAVE TO WEAR A MASK.

I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE OUT THERE WITH THE MASK ON ANYMORE, ESPECIALLY IN WORK ENVIRONMENTS, GOING TO THE DRUGSTORE OR THE DAVIS MARKETPLACE.

I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO WEAR A MASK .

THE UNVACCINATED RIGHT NOW HAVE TO WEAR A MASK.

>> WE DO NOT KNOW HOW THE SITUATION WILL CHANGE.

IT IS CONCERNING THAT THE SITUATION IS DETERIORATING WHEN IT IS SUMMERTIME AND MORE OF US ARE OUTSIDE.

IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE IT WILL BE MORE COMPLICATED IN THE FALL WHEN THINGS GET COLDER AND WE ARE MORE CONFINED INDOORS.

THE GOVERNOR SOUNDED THE MESSAGE ABOUT THE NEED FOR VACCINATION ELIGIBLE POPULATION HAS YET TO BE VACCINATED HAD HE POINTED OUT HOW MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE IN THE HOSPITAL, 18 OUT OF 22 FROM THE EARLIER NUMBERS, OUR UNVACCINATED.

IT SEEMS LIKE THE BEST EMPHASIS IS TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE VACCINE TO GET VACCINATED.

IS IT THE CONCERN FROM A PR STANDPOINT, AND A LOT OF THIS IS PUBLIC RELATIONS, THAT TO THE UNVACCINATED, WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE?

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID BEFORE, GET VACCINATED, AND THEN YOUR MASK WILL DISAPPEAR.

NOW, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING QUESTION QUESTION --?

IT IS ALMOST LIKE THE PRODIGAL SON THAT BLEW THE MONEY AND CAME BACK.

>> EXACTLY.

WE REALLY ARE PUNISHING THE COMPLIANT.

I THINK WE NEED TO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT AS LONG AS THE VIRUS IS PREVALENT, THEN IT WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MUTATE.

THERE IS A RISK FOR THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY WHEN THERE ARE PEOPLE UNVACCINATED AND I GETTING -- DARK OF THE VIRUSES ARE SNEAKY.

PABLO: REMEMBER, YOU DO NOT HAVE A FORCE FIELD THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM GETTING INFECTED WHEN YOU GET VACCINATED.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM ATTACKS THE VIRUS BEFORE IT CAN BECOME WIDESPREAD IN YOUR BODY AND KILL YOU.

YOU STILL HAVE THE VIRUS COMMEND THIS VIRUS GROWS LIKE 1200 TIMES MORE VIRAL LOAD FOR THE DELTA BY RENT -- VARIANT, THEN FROM THE ORIGINAL VARIANT.

SO YOU CAN TRANSMIT IT TO SOMEONE WHO IS UNVACCINATED.

THE ARNOTT NUMBER IS 5-8, AND THE ORIGINAL VIRUS WAS ONLY 2-3, SO JUST IMAGINE HOW QUICKLY THIS THING CAN DETERIORATE.

JIM: YOU ARE AT THE BRIEFING ON TUESDAY RIGHT BEFORE THE CDC CAME OUT, BUT I THOUGHT THE GOVERNOR -- LOOK, HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO FOLLOW THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND THE CDC, BUT HE SAID WE ARE NOT GOING TO PULL , AND THERE IS NOT A FIRE YET.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF PRESSURE ON HIM.

>> THE GOVERNOR HAS BENEFITED IN MANY RESPECTS FROM THE GOOD TIMING, AND NOTHINGS MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT ON THE OTHER FOOT IF THE SITUATION CONTINUES TO GROW MORE SERIOUS WITH THAT, BUT I THINK HE IS TRYING TO MIDDLE GROUND, AND HE SAID HE COULD NOT ANTICIPATE, AT LEAST THIS WEEK A SITUATION WHERE HE WOULD MANDATE MASK WEARING FOR STATE EMPLOYEES.

HE SAID HE DID COME OUT WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR STUDENTS TO MASK UP GOING BACK TO THE CLASSROOM AND THAT WAS WIDELY ANTICIPATED.

IT IS A TOUGH BALANCE TO WALK.

PABLO: WHAT IS A LITTLE BIT PREGNANT?

YOU CANNOT SAY ON ONE SIDE, I'M GOING TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, WITH THE CDC SAYS, AND THEN WHAT THE CDC SAYS, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE RECOMMENDING MASKS.

DOREEN: I WENT TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE OFFICE TO RENEW MY NOTARY THE OTHER DAY, AND I WALKED IN AND THE WOMAN WAS LIKE WHERE IS YOUR MASK?

SHE SAID YOU NEED ONE TO COME INTO THE BUILDING.

THIS WAS ON TUESDAY.

I WAS LIKE, WELL I DO NOT HAVE IT ANYMORE I KIND OF THREW THEM ALL AWAY.

SHE HANDED ME A MESS BEFORE I COULD PROCEED.

I WAS LIKE WOW.

>> THAT IS WHAT GALLS SOME PEOPLE.

THEY SAID THAT IS WHAT IS FRUSTRATING, I WENT TO A POST OFFICE IN PROVIDENCE THAT I GO TO AND THEN ONE IN MY HOMETOWN, NO MASKS OF THE ONE IN PROVIDENCE, BUT IN BARRINGTON, AND I WALKED IN AND I FELT LIKE A LEPER GOOD EVERYBODY WAS WEARING A MASK.

THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF AN EVENING THIS.

DOREEN: RIGHT.

I ALSO THINK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT VACCINATED BY NOW, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET IT.

JIM: SHORT OF HAVING YOUR FATHER DIE UNEXPECTEDLY -- PABLO: MANDATORY VACCINES, JUST LIKE WE HAVE THEM NOW BUT WE HAVE A NUMBER RIGHT NOW.

THE DIPHTHERIA, POLIO, TETANUS, THERE ARE A LOT OF -- JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT, NOT FULLY APPROVED YET?

IN TERMS OF FULL APPROVAL.

PABLO: THE FULL APPROVAL WILL BE RECEIVED PRETTY SOON.

THE ONLY REASON WE DO NOT HAVE IT IS BECAUSE THE RULES FOR APPROVAL ARE SO LONG.

WE ALREADY HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF MILLIONS OF DOSES.

>> WHAT ABOUT MANDATORY?

>> IT SEEMS TO BE A QUESTION OF SELF INTEREST.

THE BEST WAY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR LOVED ONES AND THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY FROM GETTING A VARIETY OF BAD OUTCOMES IS TO GET VACCINATED, AND THAT SEEMS TO BE A PRETTY GOOD REASON TO GET THE JAB.

DOREEN: HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

IT GOES BACK TO HOW DO YOU TALK THE UNVACCINATED INTO GETTING THE VACCINE?

THEY DO NOT TRUST IT.

100%.

>> I SUN NEWS PIECE LAST NIGHT THERE WERE FOUR FROM THE MEDICAL FIELD IN NORTH CAROLINA, AND THE POOR REPORTER WAS -- THEY WERE JUST LIKE NO WAY, AND THEY ARE RIGHT ON THE FRONT LINES EVERY DAY.

PABLO: IN TEXAS THEY WERE FIRED, THEY HEALTH CARE WORKERS.

JIM: THEY ARE MANDATING THAT NOW HERE.

IT WASN'T BEFORE.

HOW DO I EVEN BEGIN ON THIS STORY WITH THE MAYOR AND THE GOVERNOR.

IT WASN'T QUITE DOUBLE W E, IF YOU DID NOT SEE THE VIDEO, THE MAYOR, THERE IS A TEACHER'S CONTRACT AND BY THE TIME YOU WATCH THAT SHOW YOU WILL -- THEY WILL HAVE VOTED ON IT.

HE CONFRONTED THE GOVERNOR AT WATERFIRE THE OTHER NIGHT.

FREDDY WANT TO BEGIN?

TOO BAD WE NO LONGER HAVE THE PROVIDENCE NEWSPAPER TO FOLLOW THIS BECAUSE THIS WOULD MAKE FOR A GREAT SKIT.

I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS GOING ON.

ONE IS THE NEED TO IMPROVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN PROVIDENCE AND ELSEWHERE IN THE STATE, SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR DECADES.

IT WAS THE JOHNS HOPKINS REPORT IN 2019 THAT CALL FOR A TRANSFORMATIONAL, IN THEIR WORDS, CONTRACT AS BEING NECESSARY TO MOVE FORWARD PUBLIC EDUCATION.

WHAT WE KNOW NOW FROM THE CONTRACT BEING CONSIDERED BY THE UNIT THIS WEEK IS THAT IT IS A MARGINAL IMPROVEMENT, NOT TRANSFORMATIONAL.

THERE ARE SOME THINGS TO MOVE THE BALL FORWARD A LITTLE COME AND THERE ARE SOME SWEETENERS FOR TEACHERS TO TRY TO RAISE MORALE AND GET THEM ON BOARD.

AT THE SAME TIME THIS TAKES PLACE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE EARLY STAGE OF A GUBERNATORIAL RACE.

THE MAYOR HAS MADE IT NO SECRET OF HIS INTEREST IN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

>> THAT IS THE SUBTEXT.

>> AND HE SEEMS TO BE TRYING TO CATCH FIRE AND BLOW UP HIS PROFILE.

I THINK IT HAS BLOWN UP AND AWAIT OTHER THAN WHAT HE INTENDED WITH HIS COMPETITION WITH GOVERNOR MCKEE, AND GOVERNOR MCKEE JUST KIND OF LAUGHED WHEN MAYOR ELORZA CAME CHARGING AT HIM.

THIS WAS NOT A GOOD LOOK FOR THE MAYOR.

BUT, YES, THERE WAS A NEED FOR TRANSPARENCY ABOUT THE CONTRACT PROPOSAL BEFORE IT WENT TO THE MEMBERSHIP FOR A VOTE.

>> MAYOR MAKES A POINT IN THAT I DON'T KNOW IT COULD'VE BEEN A TRANSFORMATIONAL CONTRACT TO GET THE TEACHERS TO THE TABLE SHORT OF IMPOSING, AND ANOTHER THAT HAS LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET TEACHERS TO AGREE?

THAT IS THE REASON THE STATE CAME IN.

PABLO: ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM WITH THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

WE CONTINUALLY TALK ABOUT TEACHERS CONTRACT AND WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT STUDENT PERFORMANCE.

WE HAVE SOME OF THE WORST PERFORMANCE FOR LATINO CHILDREN IN THE COUNTRY, THIS IS AS A RESULT OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH TIME AND ABILITY TO HIRE TEACHERS.

IF THIS WAS A STUNT BY THE MAYOR , IT REALLY WAS A BAD STUNT.

IF HE WAS TRYING TO GET ATTENTION TO HIS MESSAGE OF A CONTRACT, HE COMPLETELY -- NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THE CONTRACT.

EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOR.

IF HE WANTS TO BE GOVERNOR, HE HAS TO START BEHAVING LIKE ONE, NOT LIKE A BULLY.

DOREEN: FIRST OF ALL I DID NOT REALIZE HE WAS THAT SHORT WHEN I SAW HIM GOING TOWARDS MCKEE.

MAYBE HE WILL HAVE A LITTLE BOX TO STAND ON, WHO KNOWS.

HERE IS WHAT I SAW, SOMEONE THAT BEHAVED SO BADLY WITH THE SITTING GOVERNOR, NUMBER ONE.

AND THIS IS WHAT THE MAYOR ACCUSED THE PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT OF DOING, BAD BEHAVIOR.

THESE POLICE OFFICERS WERE REPRIMANDED.

WHY DOESN'T THE MAYOR GET REPRIMANDED FOR WHAT HE DID?

IF YOU AGREE WITH THE GOVERNOR OR NOT -- >> IN TERMS OF A SUSPECT WINDING UP IN STRETCH ARE AND THE MAYOR CHARGING AT THE GOVERNOR, THOSE ARE LIKE APPLES AND ORANGES.

DOREEN: YOU JUST SAID IT YOURSELF, THE MAYOR WENT CHARGING AT THE GOVERNOR AND YOU HAD SECURITY THAT PUSHED HIM AWAY.

IF SECURITY WASN'T THERE, I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE MAYOR WOULD'VE FOUGHT WITH THE GOVERNOR, BUT WHAT HE DID WAS UNACCEPTABLE.

HIS BEHAVIOR WAS EXTREMELY BAD, AND THERE WILL BE NO REPERCUSSIONS FOR HIS BEHAVIOR.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT HIM AND WHERE HIS BASE TO BE.

HE WON THE EAST KIND THAT SHE SIGHED GOING WAY, AND I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE HAS BEEN SOME REGRET.

THERE WAS A LOT OF CRIME YEARS AGO, BUT IN THE PATH TO GOVERNOR, WHAT IS IT?

>> I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY INDICATIONS OF WHERE HE IS AT.

I HAVE TO DISCLOSE ANYTHING I SAY COMES WITH BIAS, BUT HIS PATH IS NARROW AT THIS POINT.

THIS INCIDENT I THINK PUTS A NAIL IN THE COFFIN OF HIS CANDIDACY.

>> WHAT ABOUT FOR THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS?

WE LOST A YEAR TO COVID, AND THAT REPORT WAS TWO YEARS AGO, AND YOU JUST FEEL FOR THE KIDS, THAT IT IS A GENERATION.

IT IS AN INCREMENTAL CHANGE, BUT DO THINK IT IS A DECENT BUILDING BLOCK TO GO FORWARD?

>> WE HAVE TO HOPE THAT THIS IS A BUILDING BLOCK.

IT WAS PROBABLY NOT LOST ON GOVERNOR MCKEE THAT THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS IS AN IMPORTANT INTEREST GROUP AS FAR AS THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY NEXT YEAR.

THEY PROBABLY HAVE SOME APPRECIATION FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE CONSIDERING THE SWEETENERS IN THE CONTRACT.

GOVERNOR MCKEE COULD BE IN OFFICE FOR A LONG TIME IF HE WINS REELECTION NEXT YEAR, HE COULD SEEK REELECTION FOR ANOTHER TERM AFTER THAT.

HE DOES HAVE A COMMITMENT IN HIS PREVIOUS ROLE AS MAYOR OF CONLON TO IMPROVE PUBLIC EDUCATION THROUGH THE ACADEMIES.

>> THAT REALLY IRKED THE UNIONS.

>> BUT I THINK HE HAS SHOWN A REAL INTEREST IN THIS ISSUE, SO WE COULD HOPE THAT THIS WILL BE A BUILDING BLOCK GOING FORWARD RATE AS WE HAVE SEEN FROM DECADES OF HISTORY, NOTHING IS EASY WHEN IT COMES TO IMPROVING PUBLIC EDUCATION IN RHODE ISLAND.

THERE IS A LOT MORE TALK THAN ACTION.

>> BUT IT IS EASY.

WE NEED TO INCREASE MORE TIME FOR STUDENTS IN SCHOOL AND HAVE MORE ACCOUNTABILITY TEACHERS TO GET RID OF THE BAD ONES AND REWARD THE GOOD ONES.

CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE DOING IT.

YOU HAVE ACADEMIES THAT HAVE INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCE NOW.

WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND SAY LET'S ADOPT SOME OF THE THINGS THE CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE DOING TO IMPROVE THE EDUCATION?

JIM: ONE OF THE NOTABLE PIECES WAS TO TRY TO CUT DOWN ON CHRONIC SICK DAYS AND THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT TEACHERS WHO PARTICULARLY TAKE MONDAY AND FRIDAY THAT HAS TO BE A NEGOTIATED THING, IS THAT WHERE WE ARE?

>> AND EVENTUALLY THEY WILL NEED TO BRING A DOCTOR'S NOTE.

WAIT A SECOND.

IF YOU TRY TO TAKE FRIDAYS ARE MONDAYS OFF, ON YOUR JOB, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN?

DOREEN: I WORK FOR A DOCTOR, SO HE WOULD KNOW.

JIM: JUST TO WRAP THIS UP, YOU SAID FOR YEARS THAT PROVIDENCE GETS A LOT OF OUR TAX DOLLARS SO WE HAVE TO BE INVESTED.

DOREEN: I AM HAPPY THAT THE TEACHERS ARE GOING TO RATIFY THE CONTRACT THIS AFTERNOON.

LET'S MOVE ON AND TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS WE WILL NEED MONEY FOR LIKE THE PENSION.

WHAT ARE WE, 1.2 BILLION IN THE WHOLE -- HOLE, SO WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THAT MONEY IS GOING TO COME FROM.

THE TAXPAYERS WILL HAVE TO COME UP WITH MORE MONEY.

JIM: WE WILL GET TO THAT MOMENTARILY.

I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN DOING A LITTLE MOONLIGHTING WAITRESSING AND IT IS STILL NOT EASY OUT THERE.

DOREEN: IT IS PRETTY BAD RIGHT NOW.

A FRIEND OWNS A RESTAURANT DOWN IN EAST GRANITE, AND HE NEEDED SOME HELP A FEW NIGHTS A WEEK.

SO I SAID OK, I WILL GO BACK.

MY 2-3 NIGHTS A WEEK TURNED INTO A DOUBLE LAST SATURDAY AND A DOUBLE LESSON TO BECAUSE WE CANNOT GET ANYBODY TO WORK.

I FEEL FOR HIM AND ALL OF THE BUSINESSES THAT ARE STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW.

EVERYDAY I AM THERE AND TRYING TO DO THE BEST I CAN.

WHEN YOU HAVE ONE PERSON BARTENDING AND BEING THE SERVER, AND HAVE 15 TABLES LOOKING AT YOU, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO COME OVER, AND FIVE PEOPLE SITTING AT THE BAR WONDERING WHERE THE MARTINI IS, IT IS PRETTY TOUGH.

IT IS A GREAT GIG A COUPLE OF NIGHTS A WEEK IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED.

THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY TO BE MADE.

PEOPLE ARE VERY GENEROUS AND VERY PATIENT FOR THE MOST PART, JUST DO IT.

IT IS TIME TO GO BACK TO WORK.

JIM: THIS IS A REAL ISSUE FOR SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY THAT SERVERS AND BARTENDERS, WAITERS AND WAITRESSES HAVE BEEN UNDERPAID FOR A LONG TIME, AND DYSREFLEXIA THE RELUCTANCE OF SOME OF THESE PEOPLE TO GO BACK TO WORK, A DESIRE FOR BETTER WAGES AND BETTER CONDITIONS.

DOREEN: DON'T FORGET, SERVERS ONLY GET $3.89 AN HOUR.

JIM: THERE HAS BEEN SOME CONCERNS WITH CHILDCARE AND PEOPLE -- BUT YOU GOT TO FIGURE IN SEPTEMBER THE CALCULUS WILL CHANGE.

>> EVERYTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE.

AS SOON AS THE SCHOOLS ARE OPEN, YOU WILL REMOVE A BIG IMPEDIMENT FOR THE WOMEN.

I THINK THIS WILL BE RESOLVED AT THAT POINT, BUT WE ALSO CANNOT FORGET THAT THESE PEOPLE DESERVE MORE MONEY AND DESERVE A LIVING WAGE.

YOU CANNOT FEED A FAMILY AS A WAITRESS, MAKING THREE DOLLARS AND $.99 -- $3.89 AN HOUR.

DOREEN: UNLESS YOU'RE GETTING REALLY GOOD TIPS.

JIM: THE FINAL THING, I HAVE SEEN NOTICES THAT THIS RESTAURANT IS EITHER PAUSING OR GOING OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT MAKE IT.

DOREEN: IF WE CANNOT GET ANY MORE PEOPLE TO WORK, YOU WILL SEE A LOT MORE RESTAURANTS CLOSING, ESPECIALLY IF THE MASKED MANDATE COMES BACK.

I WORK OUTSIDE, IN THIS HEAT I CANNOT SEE MYSELF WEARING A MASK SERVING THE CUSTOMERS IN THIS HEAT.

JIM: I WANT TO GET TO YOUR PENSION FUND FIRST.

LET'S DO OUTRAGES AND KUDOS.

DOREEN: MY OUTRAGE OF THE WEEK IS THE MAYOR GOING AFTER THE GOVERNOR.

THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE PRETTY SHOULD BE REPRIMANDED, BY WHO, I DON'T KNOW, THE MAYOR WAS THE BIGGEST BULLY I'VE SEEN ALL WEEK.

IAN: CAPITOL POLICE OFFICERS TESTIFIED ABOUT THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6 AND IT WAS DIFFICULT TO WATCH.

I THINK POLICE WHO DO THEIR JOB WELL DESERVE OUR RESPECT AND SUPPORT, AND THEY ARE ASKING FOR A REAL INQUIRY INTO HOW THIS UNFOLDED.

JUST THAT REMAINS A REALLY TROUBLING EPISODE IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

PABLO: THE OFFICE OF DIVERSITY AND EQUITY RELEASED A REPORT LAST WEEK ABOUT MINORITY COMPANIES AND WOMEN OWNED COMPANIES RECEIVING ONLY 7.8% OF THE STATE CONTRACTS.

IN TERMS OF MONEY, WHEN THE LAW REQUIRES IT TO BE 10%.

IN SOME YEARS, THEY HAVE GOTTEN CLOSE, BUT THERE WAS A WAIVER FOR THE LAW DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND ONE SENATOR IS PUTTING A BILL TO ELIMINATE THE WAIVERS.

>> WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT?

>> THE DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION MANAGES THE CONTRACTS.

THIS HAS TO BE AN IMPERATIVE ACT BY THE GOVERNMENT.

JIM: THE MAYOR IS TRYING TO CONFRONT THE GOVERNOR, BUT WHAT GOT LOST COME AND YOU HAD A GREAT STORY ON THE PENSION OBLIGATIONS, SO THERE IS INCREMENTAL COME EVERY YEAR HE SAYS WE HAVE A LITTLE SURPLUS, AND MEANWHILE YOU GOT THIS ON .2 BILLION PLUS ALL OF THAT RETIREE BENEFITS.

HE FORMED A COMMISSION TO LOOK AT THAT.

ELABORATE ON THAT ARTICLE.

>> THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM.

THESE COSTS GO UP ABOUT 5% EACH YEAR.

THAT MEANS THERE IS LESS AND LESS MONEY FOR OTHER EXPENSES IN THE CITY BUDGET.

THE MAYOR WANTED TO MONETIZE THE CITY WATER SUPPLY AND HE HAS PROPOSED USING PENSION OBLIGATION BONDS, AND NEITHER OF THOSE PROPOSALS GOT ANY SUPPORT.

THIS WOULD BE AN ISSUE AFTER HE IS NO LONGER MAYOR COME ABOUT THIS HAS DEFIED SOLUTIONS.

IT BEGAN IN THE 1980'S WHEN BIG COST-OF-LIVING ADJUSTMENTS WERE HANDED OUT TO CITY EMPLOYEES AND RETIREES.

THE MESSAGING FROM CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT JOHN ACKLEY AS HE -- FROM THE CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT AND OTHERS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A ROCKET SCIENTIST TO REALIZE THAT THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY THINK THE STATEWIDE TAXPAYERS NEED TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

THE SPEAKER SAID HE HAS NO APPETITE FOR INVOLVING THE STATE OR THE TAXPAYERS IN HELPING TO BAIL OUT PROVIDENCE, BUT THIS WILL REMAIN A PROBLEM WITHOUT A SOLUTION, WITHOUT SOME KIND OF STEP FORWARD.

>> HOW WILL THAT GO OVER IN PROVIDENCE?

PABLO: THIS IS VERY SIMPLE, YOU EITHER RAISE MORE MONEY OR YOU SPEND LESS OR YOU GO BANKRUPT.

>> AND THERE ARE COURT PRECE DENTS WHICH BASICALLY MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE, SO THAT IS ANOTHER COMPLICATION.

>> BECAUSE THOSE CONTRACTS WERE SIGNED ALL THOSE YEARS AGO.

DOREEN: I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE GOING TO SWIM OUT OF THIS ONE.

YOUR ARTILE WAS FANTASTIC.

I READ IT THIS MORNING.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ARE GOING TO DO IT THAT GOING AFTER THE REST OF THE STATE.

>> HE IS SIX YEARS INTO HIS TERM AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, AND I APPLAUD THE MAYOR, BUT WHERE WAS HE IN THE FIRST AND SECOND AND THIRD YEAR?

DOREEN: HE WASN'T RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

JIM: THE LAST ISSUE, THIS BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE, WHICH IS NOW BECOMING -- THERE'S FEDERAL MONEY INVOLVED TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.

THERE IS THIS BALANCE OF WHEN YOU KEEP IT AND WHEN YOU RELEASE IT.

THE ISSUE I HAD WAS THERE WAS THE ISSUE YOU BOTH ALLUDED TO WITH THIS APPALLING VIDEO.

FOR THE COMMISSIONER IN AN INCIDENT WHERE TEY PULLED OVER THREE TEENAGERS AFTER A HIGH-SPEED CHASE, THEY SAY IT IS APPALLING, BUT WE CANNOT SHOW YOU THE VIDEO.

JUST CLAM UP, RIGHT?

>> THIS MAKES NO SENSE.

IF YOUR ARGUMENT IS WE ARE NOT GOING TO RELEASE IT BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO CONTAMINATE THE JURY, BUT YOU ARE QUALIFYING IT, YOU ARE DOING AT WORST.

I WOULD RATHER SEE IT IN TO HEAR THE COMMENTARY ABOUT OH IT IS APPALLING, HORRIBLE.

THIS IS A POOR EXCUSE.

OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE VERY QUICK AT RELEASING THE VIDEOS AND CREATING MUCH LESS ANIMOSITY AMONG THE PUBLIC.

>> PROVIDENCE HAS AN QUICKER TO RELEASE THE VIDEO WHEN IT PORTRAYS POLICE IN A BETTER LIGHT.

I DON'T KNOW THAT I TOTALLY -- >> EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT, BUT YOU WOULD LIKE TO THINK IN THEORY THAT THE GOVERMENT BODIES HAVE SOME KIND OF CONSISTENCY IN THEIR APPROACH, WHETHER IT REFLECTS POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, ON PLEASE.

>> MEMBER THE SERGEANT HANLEY CASE, THAT GOT LEAKED, AND IF THAT WILL BE PART OF HIS APPEAL.

THAT WAS A JUDGED TRIAL, RIGHT?

WAS THAT A JURY TRIAL OR NOT?

I DON'T REMEMBER.

WHAT ABOUT THE RELEASE?

DOREEN: I THINK THEY SHOULD JUST RELEASE THEM, AS LONG AS THERE IS NOT SOMEONE ON THE GROUND OR SHOT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, JUST RELEASE THEM.

EVERYBODY WILL BE HAPPY ABOUT IT.

YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE RIOTS IN THE STREET OR THE PRESS CONFERENCES, BLAMING THIS, BLAMING THIS, I WENT TO SEE THE EVIDENCE.

>> YOU CREATE A BIGGER ISSUE BY NOT RELEASING THEM.

WHAT IS GOING ON, HOW COME THEY DO NOT WANT TO RELEASE IT?

IT MAKES SENSE, AND OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE RELEASED MUCH MORE DIFFICULT VIDEOS.

>> RHODE ISLAND IS ONE OF THE FEW STATES THAT 911 CALLS ARE NOT IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE UNLESS THE PERSON WHO MADE THE CALL AGREES.

GOOD LUCK, OR THAT IT IS COURT ORDERED.

THAT IS TOUGH BECAUSE A LOT OF OTHER STATES YOU HEAR THE CALL RIGHT AWAY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME GOOD REPORTING ON THE SYSTEM AND SOME OF THE SHORTFALLS IN A TRAINING FOR THE OPERATORS AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CHANGES.

THAT AUDIO CAN BE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS WEEK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IF YOU DO NOT CATCH US FRIDAYS AT 7:00 OR SUNDAY AT NOON, WE ARE ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND YOUR FAVORITE PODCASTS, WHERE YOU GET IT.

TAKE US ALONG WITH YOU.

I TOLD YOU LAST WEEK WE WOULD HAVE DETAILS ON THE PROVIDENCE TEACHER'S CONTRACT AND WE WILL HAVE MORE DETAILS NEXT WEEK.

YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE MAYOR.

WHO KNOWS WHETHER HE WILL POP OFF IN THE NEXT WEEK, BUT WE WILL HAVE IT COVERED.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

JOIN US BACK HERE NEXT WEEK.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLAND.