>> THIS WEEK, ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, IT HAS BEEN A WEEK HEAVY ON POLITICS FROM A FUNDRAISING VISIT BY A HIGH-PROFILE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN FOR ALAN FUNG TO CANDIDATES FOR THE MAYOR OF PROVIDENCE GEARING UP FOR THE HOME STRETCH.

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI.

I'M JOHN HAZEN WHITE JUNIOR.

A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT INTO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM.

JIM: JOINING US, BILLY HUNT, CHAIRMAN OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF RHODE ISLAND, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR WENDY SCHILLER, AND CONTRIBUTOR SAM HOWARD.

WELCOME.

USUALLY A VISIT BY A POWERFUL AND HIGH-PROFILE POLITICIAN BRINGS A LOT OF PUBLICITY, SOLICITATION OF COVERAGE FROM THE MEDIA AND SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT HOUSE MINORITY LEADER KEVIN MCCARTHY'S VISIT TO RHODE ISLAND LAST WEEK TO RAISE MONEY IN THE SECOND CONGRESSIONAL RACE WAS LIKE A STATE SECRET FOR THE CANDIDATE, ALAN FUNG COME UNTIL WELL AFTER MCCARTHY HAD LEFT THE STATE.

I KNOW THIS HELPED ALAN FUNG FINANCIALLY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT DID FOR HIM IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION.

PROF. SCHILLER: I'M NOT SURE THAT MANY RHODE ISLANDERS WERE PAYING ATTENTION ON A WEEKEND LEADING INTO A HOLIDAY, BUT I THINK THIS IS THE FINE LINE ALAN FUNG WILL HAVE TO WALK.

PEOPLE KNOW HIM.

GENERALLY, PEOPLE LIKE AND RESPECT HIM IN THE STATE.

HE HAS AN EXCELLENT SHOT AT WINNING THE SEAT.

BUT THE IDEA THAT HIS VICTORY WOULD GIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY THE SPEAKERSHIP IS SOMETHING DEMOCRATS, I EXPECT, WILL EMPHASIZE HEAVILY ONCE THE PRIMARY IS OVER.

THAT IS A SORT OF MAYBE WE DON'T WANT TO DO THIS KIND OF THING THAT ALAN FUNG WILL HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO AVOID.

THE WAY THE DISTRICT IS CONFIGURED, HE WILL HAVE SUPPORT, BUT THIS IS WHY HE DOWNPLAYED IT.

HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE THE VESSEL FOR KEVIN MCCARTHY BEING SPEAKER.

JIM: IF HE HAD A PRIMARY, THAT WOULD PUSH INTO THE RIGHT.

HE CAN KIND OF WAIT UNTIL AFTER ELECTION DAY TO BE ABLE TO -- PROF. SCHILLER: YEAH.

I WAS SURPRISED ANOTHER CONTENDER DROPPED OUT.

I THINK HE DID IT FOR THE PARTY AND BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF MONEY WILL POUR INTO THIS FOR ALAN FUNG, BUT IN A SMALL STATE, WHEN YOU ARE THIS WELL-KNOWN, I'M NOT SURE MONEY IS THE THING THAT WILL BE THE DETERMINANT.

IT IS HOW WILL YOU SAY I AM INDEPENDENT BUT MY VICTORY WILL GIVE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTROL OF THE HOUSE?

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE CS2 RACE.

>> I THINK FUNG HAS BROUGHT UP SCHNEIDER AS A PERSON HE WANTS TO EMULATE.

IT DOESN'T WORK.

THE PARTY HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED.

IT IS TRUMP'S PARTY NOW AND YOU HAVE TO BEHAVE.

YOU HAVE TO TOE THE LINE.

I HAVE SEEN ANTI-TRUMP REPUBLICANS GET EXCISED THIS CYCLE.

THE OTHER DANGER FOR HIM IS THAT CRANSTON IS FACIN SOME FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES THAT PEOPLE ARE BLAMING ON HIM, SO THAT COULD HIT HIS BASE OF SUPPORT IN CRANSTON.

>> IF YOU ARE ALAN FUNG, YOU ARE GOOD FOR ABOUT 36% OF THE VOTE, THE REPUBLICAN BASE.

BUT HE HAD TWO RUNS AS GOVERNOR AND WAS UNTENABLE FOR THE UNAFFILIATED GOVERNOR TO VOTE FOR -- THE UNAFFILIATED VOTER TO VOTE FOR HIM, SO HOPEFULLY THE FACT THAT CRANSTON IS A BIGGER PROPORTION OF CD-2 AND HE MAYBE HAS NAME RECOGNITION THERE WILL HELP HIM GET OVER THE HUMP, PUT HE'S NOT TALKING -- THE HUMP, BUT HE'S NOT TALKING TO THE UNAFFILIATED VOTERS, AND WHEN THE GENERAL ELECTION COMES, HE WILL GO MORE TOWARD THE MIDDLE.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL WORK FOR HIM BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD TWO SHOTS AND THEY DIDN'T LIKE HIM.

>> TO BOTH OF YOUR POINTS, TRUMP IS STILL -- IT IS EXTRAORDINARY.

IN MY LIFETIME, I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN EX-PRESIDENT BE SO IMPORTANT IN MIDTERMS, BUT ESPECIALLY WITH THE EVENTS OF THIS WEEK, TRUMP BECOMES MORE OF A LIABILITY FOR INDEPENDENT VOTERS.

YOU WOULD EXPECT THE WINNER OF THE PRIMARY TO ASSOCIATE FUNG WITH TRUMP.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL GET AS MUCH TRACTION AS IT DID IN 2018, WHICH WAS A BIG YEAR AGAINST TRUMP, BUT I DO THINK THAT FOR PEOPLE ON THE EDGE THINKING THIS WILL GIVE TRUMP AND REPUBLICANS THE HOUSE, THAT IS A CONSTANT REFRAIN.

>> THAT IS THE DEMOCRATIC STRATEGY IN THE MIDTERM ELECTION.

BRING TRUMP BACK INTO THE DEBATE, BECAUSE JUST LIKE FUNG'S IS TRYING TO DO, THEY WANT TO MOTIVATE THOSE SURGE VOTERS YOU GET IN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEARS.

YOU WILL LOSE ABOUT 20% OF THE VOTE FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WHEN IT COMES TO THE MIDTERM ELECTION.

IF THEY CAN KEEP THE DRUMBEAT, THE ROE V. WADE AND TRUMP IN THE HEADLINES, IT PAPERS OVER THE PROBLEMS WE ARE HAVING WITH THE ECONOMY, INFLATION AND CONTINUAL FLUBS BY BIDEN.

>> CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED A LOT SINCE JUNE BOTH NATIONALLY AND LOCALLY AND FUNG IS NOT AS MUCH OF A SHOO-IN AS WHEN WE WERE NOT SO CERTAIN ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.

JIM: THAT'S REFLECTED NATIONALLY.

THE GOVERNORS RACE.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON EVERY SHOW THE LAST MONTH.

WHERE IS EVERYBODY?

WE LIVE IN THE EAST BAY, NOT A LOT GOING ON.

>> IT IS UNBELIEVABLE.

30 DAYS FROM TODAY IS THE PRIMARY ELECTION AND YOU THINK YOU WOULD SEE MORE, YOU KNOW, CAMPAIGN ADS, SIGNS.

I'VE SEEN A FEW FOR FOULKES BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT.

IT HAS BEEN VERY QUIET.

I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE ARE JUST KEEPING THEIR HEADS DOWN AND TRYING TO GET TO THE GENERAL ELECTION OR IF PEOPLE JUST AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION BECAUSE IT IS THE HOT SUMMER, THE HEATWAVE.

DID THEY MOVE THE PRIMARY UP A WEEK THIS YEAR?

I MEAN, THE WHOLE ENTIRE THING SEEMS TO BECOMING A LOT FASTER, SOONER THAN WHAT'S NORMAL.

IF ANYBODY IS REALLY PAYING ATTENTION AND WILL BE MOTIVATED TO BE MOTIVATED -- MOTIVAED TO VOTE IN THE PRIMARY I AM THINKING.

JIM: FOULKES HAD A HUGE JUMP IN THE PRIMARY POLLS.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER SHE HAS ENOUGH TIME.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

SAM: I THINK MCKEE IS VULNERABLE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE GLOBE SUFFOLK POLL, HE HAD A 2.5% NET APPROVAL WITH DEMOCRATIC VOTERS.

FOUR YEARS AGO, RAIMONDO HAD A 40% NET APPROVAL RATING WITH DEMOCRATIC VOTERS.

THAT IS A BAD RATING FOR A SITTING GOVERNOR TO HAVE WITH HIS OWN PARTY, SO THERE'S LOTS OF ROOM FOR GORBEA, FOR FOULKES, FOR BROWN TO MAKE UP GROUND.

WHETHER THEY EAT INTO EACH OTHER'S SUPPORT AND WHETHER THIS BECOMES A REFERENDUM ON WHETHER MCKEE CAN DO THE JOB IS TO HIS BENEFIT.

PROF. SCHILLER: MCKEE RESPONDED WITH A SECOND OR THIRD COMMERCIAL THAT FOCUSES ON HIS ROLE ON ABORTION RIGHTS, SIGNING GUN SAFETY LEGISLATION.

IT'S A VERY SMART AD TO DO WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING, WHICH IS BRING A FEW MORE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS BACK TO HIM, AND SAYING, I WILL BE LIKE AS A GOVERNOR.

I AM AS "LIBERAL" AS YOU NEED IN A STATE THAT'S VERY STRANGE.

IT LOOKS MORE LIBERAL THAN IT IS AND I ALSO THINK THERE MIGHT BE A GENDER GAP IN TERMS OF SUPPORT.

MCKEE IN THE LAST POLL HAD A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF LATINO VOTERS EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE MORE DISTRIBUTED THAN ANYONE ELSE.

AND I THINK HIS RUNNING MATE MIGHT HAVE A CHANCE.

I THINK THAT HELPS MCKEE, IF PEOPLE START TO THINK OF THIS AS A TEAM.

IT IS BUSINESS FRIENDLY.

IT MIGHT PUSH HIM OVER THE EDGE SLIGHTLY TO WIN THE PRIMARY.

JIM: BUT I ALSO THINK THAT HE HAS -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE APPROVAL RATINGS, THERE'S FIVE PEOPLE, REALLY THREE THAT ARE COMPETITIVE, AND IF IT IS 22% UNDECIDED, HE DOES NOT NEED THAT MANY TO BREAK HIS WAY.

IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE NIPPING AT HIS HEELS BUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES, THE VACCINATION, WHICH WE THOUGHT WOULD HELP HIM INITIALLY, AND THE BUDGET, DO YOU JUST STAY WITH THE GUY YOU KNOW?

>> HE HAS THE POWER OF THE INCUMBENCY AND IS BEGINNING THOSE $250 CHECKS FOR YOUR KIDS AROUND ELECTION TIME.

THE CANDY MAN IS GIVING OUT THE MONEY TO THE STATE EMPLOYEES.

I MEAN, THAT SAYS A LOT.

THAT IS HOW CHAFEE WON THE GOVERNORSHIP, BY LOCKING UP THAT UNION VOTE.

>> YEAH.

I JUST THINK HE DOES NOT HAVE THIS ON LONG.

INCUMBENCY I DON'T THINK APPLIES IN THE SAME WAY.

HE WAS NOT ELECTED GOVERNOR.

HE WAS ELECTED LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

HE BARELY WON IN 2018 AS AN INCUMBENT.

HE'S HAD PROBLEMS WITH CAMPAIGNS.

I THINK HE IS INTENSELY VULNERABLE.

I THINK GORBEA IS HOT ON HIS HEELS AND SHE HAS A GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING THIS.

PROF. SCHILLER: ON PAPER, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT SHE WOULD HAVE WON THE PRIMARY.

SHE HAD A TERRIFIC AD IN 2014, THIS GREAT SORT OF, I'M HERE, I'M A RHODE ISLANDER, I KNOW WHAT YOU NEED AND SHE WON THE PRIMARY AGAINST SOMEONE WHO WAS MUCH BETTER FUNDED, BUT TO YOUR POINT, AS AN OBSERVER, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF HER.

I'M NOT SEEING ENOUGH COMMERCIALS, SOCIAL MEDIA PRESENCE.

>> EVENTS.

PROF. SCHILLER: WHERE ARE YOU?

AND GET OUT THE DOOR, LIKE WITH ALAN FUNG, I THINK SHE'S WELL-LIKED, AND I DON'T THINK SHE'S CAPITALIZED ON THAT ENOUGH AT THE MOMENT TO LOCK IN HER LEAD.

THAT IS THE QUESTION FOR ME.

>> CAMPAIGNS HAVE GOTTEN MORE TARGETED.

IT IS HARDER TO WATCH THEM PLAY OUT IN A WAY WHERE YOU HAVE TO SHOW UP OR WHATEVER.

IT IS A LOT EASIER TO JUST GO THESE ARE OUR TARGET UNIVERSE OF VOTERS AND I AM NOT SURPRISED YOU ARE NOT SEEING ANYTHING.

THERE'S NO ONE WHO HAS YOU ON THEIR RADAR NOW.

>> I DISAGREE, BECAUSE AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS RUN MY OWN CAMPAIGN, THE UNAFFILIATED VOTER IS SOMEONE SHOWING UP AND VOTING IN A MIDTERM ELECTION IF THEY ARE NOT AFFILIATED REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, THEY WILL BE THE SWING VOTERS.

>> IN A PRIMARY, YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE VOTERS MOST LIKELY TO TURNOUT.

THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE LIKELY GOING TO SEE YOUR VICTORY HAPPEN, SO YOU WANT TO PERSUADE THOSE MOST RELIABLE VOTERS FIRST AND THEN GO TO THE LESS RELIABLE VOTERS.

>> BUT WE HAVE AN OPEN PRIMARY SYSTEM.

>> HOW MANY PEOPLE DISAFFILIATED?

>> IT IS A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE TO GO DO THAT AS OPPOSED TO CONVINCE SOMEONE WHO IS ALREADY GOING TO SHOW UP.

>> GIVE THEM A NUDGE.

>> TO YOUR POINT, I DO NOT THINK THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN VOTING.

YOU ARE SAYING THEY ARE ACTIVATED AND COULD COME INTO A PRIMARY AND HELP YOU, BUT I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, IT IS EXPENSIVE TO GO AFTER THEM.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

I THINK MORE PRESENCE, REMINDING VOTERS SHE'S BEEN ELECTED TWICE STATEWIDE, HAS DONE A GOOD JOB AS SECRETARY OF STATE, ETC., ETC.

SHE NEEDS TO DO MORE OF THAT.

>> AT SOME POINT, IT IS THE TUG BACK AND FORTH.

IT IS GOING BACK TO SHELDON WHITEHOUSE'S CAMPAIGN.

HE HAD THE CHICAGO BOZOS WHO TOLD HIM DON'T TALK TO REPORTERS.

THIS IS RHODE ISLAND.

THAT MAY WORK IN CHICAGO, BUT YOU WONDER, WHY ISN'T NELLIE GORBEA OUT MORE?

IS A CONSULTANT TELLING HER TO DO THAT?

PROF. SCHILLER: I DON'T KNOW.

I HAVE NOT HAD A LOT OF DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPERIENCE IN RHODE ISLAND AT ALL.

SHE'S A VERY CAPABLE PERSON.

I THINK EVEN IF SOMEONE WAS TELLING HER TO DO SOMETHING, SAME WITH MCKEE, BOTH WILL GO, WE KNOW IT WE ARE DOING.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH HER.

AS YOU SAID, THERE'S A SMALL WINDOW BEFORE SCHOOL STARTS.

YOU HAVE TO CONNECT THERE AND THEN.

>> SHE'S BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY ON INTERNAL POLLING.

MAYBE SHE JUST FEELS COMFORTABLE.

>> ASK HILLARY CLINTON ABOUT THAT STRATEGY, WHICH DID NOT WORK OUT SO WELL IN 2016.

JIM: LET'S MOVE ON TO THE PROVIDENCE MAYOR'S RACE.

SAM, LET'S BEGIN WITH YOU.

SAM AND WENDY BOTH LIVE IN PROVIDENCE, SO THAT IS AN ADVANTAGE.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

SAM: LET ME PREFACE THIS WITH THAT I HAVE WORKED FOR CUERVO RECENTLY.

I'M NO LONGER ON THE CAMPAIGN BUT I WANTED TO SAY THAT AND PUT MY CARDS ON THE TABLE.

I WANT HIM TO WIN THIS ELECTION.

HE HAD GOOD ONE AND THAT SHE HAD GOODWIN AND GAY-HARRIS AND HE HAS MOMENTUM.

HE'S HEADING INTO THE PRIMARY IN A GOOD SPOT.

I THINK THIS IS AN ELECTION ANY OF THE THREE CANDIDATES CAN WIN.

THEY JUST NEED TO -- REALLY, THE KEY THING NOW TO ME IS THEY NEED TO SEND OUT MAIL, ESPECIALLY NI RVA AND GONZALO.

SMILEY, I THINK I'VE GOTTEN A PIECE OF MAIL EVERY WEEK FROM SMILEY SINCE JUNE THAT HAVE GONE BASICALLY UNANSWERED BY NIRVA AND GONZALO.

I THINK THEY JUST CAN BLUNT SMILEY'S APPROACH.

JIM: DO YOU GET ANY MAIL?

PROF. SCHILLER: WE HAVE GOTTEN NO MAIL ON OUR STREET?

I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT BRETT SMILEY WOULD STILL BE THE FRONT RUNNER.

PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FINANCES OF PROVIDENCE.

THEY WANT SOMEONE WITH EXPERIENCE WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND FINANCE AT THE STATE LEVEL AND WHO WILL BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE WELDED YOU GET THE SENSE -- AND LEGISLATURE WELL.

HOWEVER, YOU GET THE SENSE THAT CUERVO IS COMING ON.

HE HAS GOOD TEAM OUTRAGE AND IS -- GOOD EMAIL OUTREACH AND IS EVERYWHERE.

IF THERE IS SIGNIFICANT HOLISTIC LATINO TURNOUT, ACROSS ALL LATINO COMMUNITIES, THEN I THINK HE HAS A DECENT CHANCE DEPENDING ON THAT TURNOUT OF WINNING THE PRIMARY.

WE WILL SEE.

BILLY: I WILL DEFER TO THE PROVIDENCE EXPERTS.

TRADITIONALLY, WHAT IS IT, THE EAST SIDE DECIDES THE MAYORAL RACE?

TELL ME IF I'M WRONG WITH THAT.

PROF. SCHILLER: I THINK SOUTH PROVIDENCE AND OTHER COMMUNITIES WITH GOOD LATINO TURNOUT MATTERS A GOOD DEAL ALSO.

SAM: I THINK THE EAST SIDE VOTE WILL BE SO FRAGMENTED THIS TIME THAT IT WILL BE NEUTRALIZED.

I THINK PEOPLE WHO THINK NIRVA AND SMILEY WILL COMPLETELY DOMINATE THE EAST SIDE ARE MAKING A MISTAKE.

I THINK THAT IS TO HUBRISTIC.

GONZALO HAS A GOOD CHANCE OF BUILDING UP TO 20%, 30% OF THE SIDE.

PROF. SCHILLER: NIRVA, EARLIER IN THE YEAR, SHE DID EXCELLENT WORK IN THE MEDIA, MOSTLY FREE MEDIA, AND SHE'S A GOOD SPOKESPERSON FOR HERSELF.

I THINK THERE HAS TO BE MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE OUTREACH ON HER PART TO STAY IN THIS.

SAM: SHE'S BEEN GOOD ABOUT TAKING HER WEAKNESSES, WHICH IS THAT SHE HAS A FULL-TIME JOB AND IS A WORKING MOTHER ON TOP OF THINGS, THINGS THAT HAVE IMPACTED HOW WELL SHE CAN CAMPAIGN, AND TURNING THEM INTO STRENGTHS, SAYING, I AM JUST LIKE YOU.

I DO THINK IT IS A TOUGH MESSAGE TO PULL OFF.

JIM: BRIEFLY, WE COULD DO A WHOLE HALF-HOUR ON IT, BUT WE WERE TALKING IN THE GREEN ROOM.

YOUR EFFORTS TO GET THE GOVERNOR.

YOU ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT.

GIVE US A BRIEF RECAP.

SAM: CERTAINLY.

WE ARE THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF RHODE ISLAND, NOT AN OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZED PARTY.

PART OF THAT PROCESS IS GETTING 5% IN THE GUBERNATORIAL RACE.

A PREREQUISITE IS TO RUN A CANDIDATE AND TO GET ON THE BALLOT YOU NEED 1000 SIGNATURES.

WE ATTEMPTED THIS PROCESS.

WE TURNED IN OVER 1300 SIGNATURES ON BEHALF OF OUR CANDIDATE.

ONE OUT OF FOUR WERE REJECTED AND WE FELL 50 SIGNATURES SHORT OF OUR GOAL.

WE ARE IN EFFORTS NOT TO CHALLENGE IT WITH THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

THERE'S ABOUT 90, 95 SIGNATURES OR SO WE ARE CHALLENGING WITH THEM, THAT SHOULD BE -- THAT THEY SHOULD BE COUNTED TOWARDS OUR TOTAL, WHICH WOULD GET US ON THE BALLOT, BUT JUST GENERALLY, THE PROCESS, THE ACCESS AND PETITIONING PROCESS IN THE STATE IS ANTIQUATED.

IT IS NOT RUN EFFICIENTLY.

IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE AND IT IS AN ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS BARRIER FOR THIRD PARTIES TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

THE NATURAL WAY FOR US TO MAKE CHANGE IS TO GET PEOPLE ELECTED AND CHANGE THE LAWS, BUT SEEING AS THERE'S THIS BARRIER IN PLACE PREVENTING US FROM DOING SO, WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE AN APPEAL AND GET THE WORD OUT AND, HOPEFULLY, WITH THE EFFORTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE TO ADDRESS THE VOTING ISSUES IN THE STATE, WE WOULD SPEND SOME TIME DOING THE BALLOT ACCESS.

BECAUSE WHO CARES IF YOU CAN VOTE IF THE CHOICES FOR WHO YOU CAN VOTE FOR OUR LIMITED?

THAT IS WHAT WE CALL AN ILLUSION OF CHOICE IN THIS STATE.

JIM: OR IS THAT JUST A MATTER OF HAVING TO PLAY BY RHODE ISLAND'S RULES?

YOU WANT THEM CHANGED THOUGH.

BILLY: BUT IS IT REALLY RHODE ISLAND'S RULES?

THOSE ARE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS BUT THEY WERE PASSED BY TWO PRIVATE CORPORATIONS, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, AND THEIR STATED GOAL ONCE THEY ARE IN POWER IS TO MAINTAIN THAT POWER, SO WHAT BETTER WAY THAN TO PUT IN THESE RULES?

PROF. SCHILLER: IT IS SPREADING MUCH MORE QUICKLY.

I USED TO THINK IT WAS TOO CONFUSING, BUT I MEAN, NEW YORK CITY.

IT IS A LITTLE CONFUSING, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IT WOULD ALLOW MORE CHOICE, AND AMONG YOUNGER VOTERS ESPECIALLY, IF THEY TURN OUT TO VOTE, THEY WANT MORE CHOICE.

AND INSTEAD OF HAVING THESE ARCANE RULES THAT PROTECT THE TWO MAJOR PARTIES, WHICH THEY PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE THEY CONTROL THE ELECTIONS, WE WOULD HAVE MORE CHOICE ACROSS-THE-BOARD AND AN MECHANISM TO CREATE MORE CHANCES FOR ALTERNATIVE CANDIDATES.

>> FROM THE MOMENT THE STATE TOOK OVER BALLOT ELECTIONS ADMINISTRATION, THEY HAVE NEEDED TO ANSWER HOW DO WE DECIDE WHO GETS ON THE BALLOT.

THE SYSTEM IS SET UP, IS DESIGNED, YES, SO THE TWO PARTIES CAPTURE ALL THE ACTIVITY.

I THINK WE SHOULD REFORM OUR LAWS.

I THINK VERMONT HAS A GOOD BALLOT ACCESS LAW FOR THIRD PARTIES, WHERE THEY REQUIRE PARTIES TO ORGANIZE COMMITTEES RATHER THAN GO COLLECT SIGNATURES OR MEET A CERTAIN THRESHOLD OF VOTES.

IN TERMS OF RANKED CHOICE VOTING, I THINK RANKED CHOICE VOTING DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESULTS, GENERALLY, THE PERSON WHO WAS LEADING AT THE FIRST ROUND WINS AT THE END, SO BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THE 10TH ROUND OF VOTING, SO MANY VOTERS MIGHT HAVE DROPPED OFF.

THEY ARE ONLY ACTUALLY WINNING WITH 33% OF THE VOTE, WHICH THEY WOULD HAVE WON WITH IN THE FIRST ROUND.

PROF. SCHILLER: BUT IT ACCLIMATE VOTERS TO THE IDEA THAT THEY CAN PICK 1, 2, 3, 4.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO PICK ONE.

THEY CAN EXPRESS PREFERENCES THAT ARE MORE NUANCED AND THAT FACILITATES AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU MIGHT CONSIDER ANOTHER CANDIDATE MIGHT BE GOOD.

IT WILL TAKE TIME FOR PEOPLE TO GET USED TO THAT.

BILLY: BUT IN THE STATE, HOW MANY RACES ARE RUN UNOPPOSED?

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT STATEWIDE, NATIONAL RACES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DOWN BALLOT LOCAL RACES.

WE WOULD MUCH RATHER RUN LOCAL CANDIDATES AND FOCUS ON THE LOCAL BASE, WHICH IS WHAT A GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION TO BE FOCUSED ON, WHICH IS WHY FORMING COMMITTEES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE -- >> I THINK THERE ARE BETTER SYSTEMS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW LONG THE BALLOT GETS.

IT JUST BECOMES SUCH A PAIN FOR ELECTIONS ADMINISTRATION AND VOTERS.

>> LET'S DO OUTRAGES AND KUDOS.

BILLY?

>> A WEEK FROM TODAY, I WILL BE HAVING MY SECOND SON.

>> LET THE TRUMPETS BLOW.

>> THANK YOU TO MY WIFE FOR LETTING ME DO ALL THE CRAZY STUFF I DO.

>> KUDOS.

>> KUDOS TO JESS.

>> SAM?

>> I HAVE A KUDOS.

THERE'S AN EXCELLENT DOCUMENTARY, NO TIME TO FAIL, THAT FOLLOWS ELECTION ADMINISTRATIONS DURING THE 2020 ELECTIONS.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT ELECTIONS, IT WILL BE AT THE AVON IN OCTOBER SO YOU SHOULD SEE IT.

>> EXCELLENT.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

>> OUTRAGE.

I WILL GO THERE.

IT IS OUTRAGEOUS TO ME THAT, IF IT IS TRUE THAT A FORMER PRESIDENT REMOVED CLASSIFIED INTELLIGENCE DOCUMENTS NOT ONLY ABOUT OUR NUCLEAR SAFETY INFRASTRUCTURE OR WEAPONS INFRASTRUCTURE BUT ALSO ABOUT COVERT OPERATIONS ACROSS THE WORLD, IF THAT'S TRUE -- WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE -- THAT IF IT IS, THAT'S AGAINST THE LAW AND IT IS SOMETHING PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY.

YOU REALLY THINK THIS PERSON CARES ABOUT THE NATIONAL INTEREST?

>> WE ARE TAPING ON A FRIDAY MORNING.

MERRICK GARLAND YESTERDAY SAID THAT HE WANTS TO RELEASE THE WARRANT, WHICH WILL TELL A LOT ABOUT THE VISIT.

EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT A RAID.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE NEW YORK TIMES PIECE.

LEADING UP TO THIS VISIT BY THE FBI, THEY ASKED NICELY.

THEY SENT PEOPLE IN JUNE, ISSUED A SUBPOENA, AND TRUMP STILL BLEW UP.

>> IT WAS AUTHORIZED.

>> AND TRUMP WAS NOT THERE.

>> PUT HIS LAWYER WAS THERE THE WHOLE TIME.

THERE WAS NO PLANTING OF ANYTHING.

THERE WAS NOTHING UNTOWARD.

THIS WAS STANDARD PROCEDURE.

THEY WERE GIVEN MONTHS OF WARNINGS ABOUT THIS.

THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS ASKED TO TURN OVER DOCUMENTS THAT HE EITHER IMPROPERLY OR ILLEGALLY TOOK THAT NO PRESIDENT IS ALLOWED TO DO AND THEY SAID WE WANT THEM BACK.

ALL WE WANT IS WE WANT THEM BACK BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BE SECURED.

>> MY POINT WAS THE WARRANT WILL TELL US A LOT ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR.

WE CAN SPECULATE ABOUT NUCLEAR CODES AND THAT STUFF, BUT BY THE TIME YOU WATCH THIS, WE MAY KNOW.

>> OBAMA'S LETTER TO TRUMP.

I THINK IT IS THAT.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE JUST DESPERATE TO SEE IT.

>> TO ME -- BUT YOU ARE STARTING TO SEE THE "ESTABLISHMENT" CONSERVATIVE PRESS, MEANING RUPERT MURDOCH, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, THE NEW YORK POST, FOX ON THE EDGE, STARTING TO SAY WE HAVE GOOD ALTERNATIVES TO THIS GUY THAT COULD BE RON DESANTIS IN FLORIDA, COULD BE SOME OTHER PEOPLE, KRISTI NOEM, KIM REYNOLDS IN IOWA, GREG ABBOTT IN TEXAS.

WE HAVE GOOD PEOPLE WITHOUT THE BAGGAGE, LET'S TURN THE PAGE.

WE WILL SEE IN THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS WHETHER THAT STARTS TO HAPPEN IN TERMS OF COVERAGE FOR TRUMP.

WE KNOW ONE THING.

MEDIA COVERAGE IS LIKE OXYGEN TO TRUMP, AND IF HE DOES NOT GET ENOUGH OF IT, HE WILL GET MORE OUTRAGEOUS JUST TO GET THE COVERAGE.

WE WILL SEE WHAT THE CONSERVATIVE MEDIA DOES.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT -- I SENT YOU THE COPY OF A WALL STREET JOURNAL ARTICLE THAT SAID -- AND, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS, HOW THE MIDTERMS WILL GO.

YOU KEEP TRACK OF WHAT'S GOING ON NATIONALLY.

IT MAY NOT BE A RED WAVE IN THE FALL, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WISHFUL THINKING, MAYBE, BY THE DEMOCRATS.

>> I THINK THEIR CANDIDATE QUALITY, ESPECIALLY IN THE SENATE, MCMASTER, J.D.

VANCE, O Z, IS NOT GOOD.

>> FEDERMAN IS KILLING HIM.

>> AND FROM THE LIVING ROOM.

FROM HIS LA-Z-BOY IN THE LIVING ROOM.

>> BUT THOSE ARE ALL PICKUPS.

THEY ARE ALL WINNABLE RACES FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

THERE'S THIS WEIRD CHANCE NOW.

DEMOCRATS COULD LOSE THE HOUSE BUT GAIN SEATS IN THE SENATE, AND THAT'S -- >> IF YOU ARE ON WALL STREET, THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.

YOU WANT TO MITIGATE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR MORE LIBERAL LEGISLATION, SO YOU WANT A SPLIT CHAMBER.

THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN VOTE.

LET'S NOT LEAVE THAT OUT.

IT IS CRUCIAL IN THIS MIDTERM.

IT IS REALLY CRUCIAL PARTICULARLY IN STATES LIKE GEORGIA AND NORTH CAROLINA.

BEASLEY IS RUNNING IN NORTH CAROLINA.

THEY HAVE A CHANCE THERE.

AND IN PENNSYLVANIA, YOU WILL NEED PITTSBURGH AND PHILADELPHIA.

THE AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTE IS SO IMPORTANT AND I DON'T THINK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS PAYING ENOUGH ATTENTION TO IT, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE RACES, AND I THINK IN OHIO TIM RYAN MAY HAVE A CHANCE OF DEFEATING J.D.

VANCE, WHICH WOULD BE A HUGE PICKUP.

THERE'S ALREADY A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR, SHERROD BROWN, FROM OHIO.

IT CAN BE DONE.

BUT I THINK THE DIMMER CREDIT PARTY SHOULD NOT TAKE -- THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SHOULD NOT TAKE THAT DEMOGRAPHIC FOR GRANTED.

>> BEASLEY IS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND THAT IS BURR'S SEAT, WHICH HAS BEEN REPUBLICAN FOR A LONG TIME.

IT IS LIKE KEVIN MCCARTHY COMING IN WANTING TO PUNCH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE MOUTH BY FLIPPING A RHODE ISLAND SEAT FROM BLUE TO RED.

>> IT WILL BE AN INTERESTING RACE.

I THINK THE MIDTERMS ARE INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL MANEUVERING GOING ON, ESPECIALLY WITH THE DEMOCRATS AND PROGRESSIVES TRYING TO PUSH THE TRUMP CANDIDATES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE, TO YOUR POINT, THEY HAVE A BETTER -- >> BUT IS THAT PLAYING WITH FIRE?

>> IT IS LIKE SETTING UP A HUGE BONFIRE AND WATCHING IT BURN.

IT IS INSANE.

>> AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE, HERE IS TRUMP'S OWN PEOPLE IN POWER, THAT HE KEPT IN POWER, COMING AFTER HIM NOW.

HE DID NOT DO A GOOD, EFFECTIVE JOB OF DRAINING THE SWAMP.

HE IS A FALSE PROPHET.

>> 30 SECONDS.

>> I WILL GIVE IT TO SAM.

TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK OF THE STRATEGY?

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

IT IS PLAYING WITH FIRE.

IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE YOU WANT TO INCREASE YOUR CHANCES AND THIS IS THE WAY ELECTIONS ARE PLAYED IN AMERICA.

>> THEY ARE SPOUTING ELECTION DENIAL EVERYWHERE AND UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY.

>> THE PROBLEM IS IF THOSE PEOPLE WIN, YOU HAVE FASCISTS.

>> THERE YOU GO.

THAT'S ANOTHER PROBLEM.

NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK, SAM, OFF THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

WENDY AND BILLY.

LOOKING FORWARD TO NEWS AND MAYBE A PICTURE NEXT TIME YOU ARE ON.

PEOPLE, WE ARE HEADING INTO THE HOME STRETCH TOWARD PRIMARY DAY.

STICK WITH US.

THINGS CHANGE EVERY WEEK.

WE WILL BE BACK HERE NEXT WEEK WITH THE LATEST ANALYSIS ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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