>> THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, THE GOVERNOR IS HOLDING FIRM DESPITE CALLS TO EASE THE DEADLINES FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS.

IT HAS BEEN 20 YEARS SINCE THE DAY THAT CHANGED AMERICA.

OUR PANEL REFLECTS ON 9/11.

>> A LIKELY EXTREME IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> IMPORTANT POLITICAL ISSUES THAT AFFECT RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

♪ [CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] >> JOINING US, JIM VINCENT, OF THE NAACP, POLITICAL STRATEGIST ROB ORBITS AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DOREEN COSTA.

JIM: WELCOME TO THIS WEEK' IS LIKELY.

A MANDATE KICKING AND REQUIRING HEALTH CARE WORKERS TO GET A COVID VACCINE, THIS DESPITE PROTESTS AND A LETTER THIS WEEK FROM JUST UNDER HALF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

SOME FEAR AND ALREADY SERIOUS EMPLOYEE SHORTAGE MAKE IT WORSE IF THE UNVACCINATED THEIR JOBS.

GOVERNOR MCKEE WAS ASKED ABOUT THIS AND HE IS HOLDING FIRM.

IF YOU ARE IN THE HOUSE WOULD YOU HAVE SIGNED ONTO THAT LETTER?

DOREEN: NO, I DON'T THINK I WOULD HAVE, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION.

YOU HAVE A MANDATE THAT YOU WANT EVERYONE TO BE MANDATED, BUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE DAILY TESTING, MORE PPE?

YOU WANT TO SOLVE A PROBLEM BUT WE DON'T HOW TO SOLVE IT.

SO SOMEONE HAS TO GET TOGETHER AND FIGURE THIS OUT, BECAUSE IF THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT WORKING -- TO ME, THEY WERE HEROES, WE ARE IN TROUBLE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT.

WE NEED TO FIGURE THIS OUT BEFORE OCTOBER 1 FOR THE HEALTH-CARE CARE INDUSTRY IS GOING TO BE IN BIG TROUBLE.

JIM: EVEN ONE OF THE SIGNERS OF THAT LETTER, WHO WAS THE CHAIR OF THE WERE ALL IN TASK FORCE FOR COVID-19, HE GOT BUYER REMORSE AND SAID, WE HAVE TO PROTECT OUR CITIZENS, COWORKERS.

THIS IS SERIOUS THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.

HE WANTS TO LOSE THEIR JOB.

THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO IT.

OCTOBER 1 DOES THE DEADLINE, SO WHAT DO YOU DO?

IS SIGNIFICANTLY GOING TO BE DIFFERENT, PEOPLE WHO DO NOT -- DO NOT WANT TO GET VACCINATED DO NOT GET VACCINATED.

YOU TAKE AN OATH IN THE HEALTH CARE FIELD, DO NO HARM.

YOU HAVE TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS RIGHT IN TERMS OF THIS HE IS BACKED BY 50 TOP HEALTH CARE ORGANIZATIONS.

ALSO, FLECK IS, SINCE LAST YEAR, -- ALSO, SINCE LAST YEAR, HEALTH CARE WORKERS HAVE DIED FROM COVID IN RHODE ISLAND.

NOBODY IS GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOB.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE THE LICENSING AND THEN STATE HAS TO FIGURE IT OUT.

JIM: I HATE TO SAY IT THIS WAY, BUT PEOPLE HAVE VACATION TIME AND PERSONAL TIME.

NOBODY WILL BE HARMED ON OCTOBER 1.

JIM V.: I AGREE WITH JIM.

I TEND TO BE FAIRLY SUPPORTIVE OF THEM.

THESE ARE HEALTH CARE WORKERS.

THEY ARE REQUIRED TO TAKE OTHER VACCINATION AS A CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT BE A THIS IS A PANDEMIC.

WE ARE INCREASING AND HOUSE THOSE NATIONS BECAUSE OF DELTA.

IT IS MOVING UP A BIT.

WE HAVE A LONG WAY, EVEN THOUGH WHAT ISLAND IS FIFTH IN THE COUNTRY, BUT WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED.

I THINK THAT THE END OF THE NIGHT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LOSE VERY MANY HEALTH-CARE WORKERS ONE PUSH COMES TO SHOVE.

BUT THE ONES THAT YOU LEARN -- LOSE, I'M SORRY, DO NO HARM.

JIM: YOU THINK THEY WILL WALK OR DO YOU THINK THAT IS A BLUFF QUESTION MARK I HEARD PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT RETIREMENT -- BLUFF?

I HEARD PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT RETIREMENT ARE JUST GOING TO RETIRE.

DOREEN: WE NEED TO KEEP THESE HEALTH CARE WORKERS WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

I AM NOT ANTI-VACCINATION BUT WE HAVE TO FIND AN ALTERNATIVE.

THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH CAN'T JUST SAY, YOU HAVE TO DO THIS, X, Y, AND Z BEFORE OCTOBER 1.

JIM: ISN'T IT A GAME CHANGER NOW THAT IT IS APPROVED.

AS ROB SAID, WE ERADICATED CHICKENPOX AND TO MEET THAT IS A GAME CHANGER FOR THE MANDATE.

ROB: THE LIKELIHOOD OF THEM COLLECTING UNEMPLOYMENT IS LIKE NO LIKELIHOOD.

THEY HAVE GOTTEN ADEQUATE NOTICE BEFOREHAND.

THEY SAID THAT BY OCTOBER 1 YOU HAVE TO BE VACCINATED.

THAT IS A BIG FACTOR.

PEOPLE NEED THEIR JOBS AND THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

THEY ARE GOING TO GET VACCINATED AND I THINK THE PROBLEM IN TERMS OF VACANCIES WILL BE MINIMAL.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE PRESSURE ON THE GOVERNMENT AND HE IS GETTING IT FROM ALL SIDES.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN HIS SHIP TEAM.

YOU HAVE SOME OTHER PEOPLE WHO SIGNED AND HE SEEMS TO BE VERY RESOLUTE.

>> HE NEEDS TO BE FIRM.

HIS POSITION IS COMPLETELY DEFENSIBLE AND I THINK IT IS SUPPORTED BY 75% OR 80% OF RHODE ISLANDERS THAT WERE PULLED.

-- POLLED.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF PEOPLE.

FOR YOUR KIDS TO GO TO KINDERGARTEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN VACCINATIONS.

IF YOU WANT TO WORK AND HEALTH CARE THAT IS THE CHOICE.

THERE ARE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS.

THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS TO LIVE IN SOCIETY AND THIS DOES NOT HURT OTHERS AND PARTICULARLY IF YOUR JOB IS TO HURT OTHERS.

JIM: THEY ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE ALL OF THESE OTHER X NATIONS AND IT IS ONE MARK VACCINATION.

DOREEN: I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY VACCINATED, 50% OF THE HOSPITALIZATIONS OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY VACCINATED.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IF THIS VACCINE IS SO SAFE AND EFFECTIVE?

NOW THEY WANT TO COME OUT WITH A BOOSTER AND I GET IT.

SO WHEN THIS BOOSTER IS ADMINISTERED, SO ARE WE GOOD FOR ANOTHER SIX MONTHS AND THEN WILL HAVE TO GET ANOTHER AND ANOTHER.

JIM: WE MAY BE.

DOREEN: THIS IS LIKE THE NEVER ENDING PANDEMIC.

>> THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, 90% OF THE DEATHS AND OF THE HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE FROM THE UNVACCINATED.

DOREEN: I AM TALKING LAST WEEK.

>> YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE THING.

THERE WILL BE OUTLIERS IN THE LAST WEEK BUT YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE WEEK, THE DATA ISN'T -- IS COMPLETELY CLEAR.

THE VACCINE IS SAFE.

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN IT.

THERE IS NO ISSUE.

I KNOW YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL DATA.

MY PROBLEM IS ALL THE THIS INFORMATION OUT THERE.

I SAW SOME AND SAY 90% OF THE PEOPLE DYING ARE VACCINATED.

>> I DID LOOK AT DATA, AND I BELIEVE WITH ROB.

TWO THIRDS OF THE PEOPLE ARE UNVACCINATED.

ROB: I AM NOT SURE ANYBODY WHO HAS BEEN VACCINATED HAS DIED.

THERE MAY BE SOME BREAKTHROUGH CASES BUT AGAIN, THAT IS A TELLING STATISTIC.

JIM: THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.

YOU HAVE TO GET VACCINATED.

WE HAVE VARIANTS COMING IN.

DO NO HARM THAT IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE VACCINATIONS TO BE A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

SO LET'S GET ABOUT THE BUSINESS OF KEEPING OUR COMMUNITY AND STATE SAFE.

DOREEN: HOW DO YOU GET THE ANTI-VAXERS TO GET IT?

>> I DON'T THINK WE ARE GOING TO.

WE SEE STORIES EVERY NIGHT ABOUT PEOPLE HAVING DEATHBED, PLEASE GET VACCINATED BECAUSE I WAS -- WE HAVE SEEN POPULAR RADIO ANTI-VACCINATION AND YOU THINK IS THAT KARMA OR WHATEVER.

I DON'T WISH ANY ILL ON ANYONE BUT AT THE END THEY WERE WRONG.

JIM: THAT IS WHY WHERE WE CAN WE NEED TO MANDATE IT, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GOING TO CONVINCE REBUTTING.

NATIONALLY, SOME 5% ARE VACCINATED.

IF WE CAN MOVE ANOTHER 5%, A SIGNIFICANT UPTICK BECAUSE OF DELTA.

IF YOU LOOK AT STATES THAT ARE UNVACCINATED AND THE DEPTHS AND BREAKTHROUGHS.

IF IT IS CIRCULATING MORE THAN THERE WILL BE MORE WITH YOU INFECTIONS FOR THOSE WHO ARE VACCINATED COULD LOOK AT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO KIDS IN THAT AREA.

THE MANDATES IS HOW WE WILL GET THERE.

JIM: A MAYOR WAS IN THE NEWS THIS WEEK.

HE APPOINTED THE RECREATION DIRECTOR OF PROVIDENCE, MICHAEL STEVENS,.

FROM COLLEGE BASKETBALL FANS, YOU KNOW HIM AS BEING A LONGTIME REFEREE AND HE IS IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AIMED AT DIVERSION.

THIS HAS CAUSED A BIG STIR BECAUSE HE HAS NOT GONE TO THE ACADEMY AND HE IS NOT CAP.

MAYBE THE INTENTION WAS GOOD ENOUGH THE EXECUTION.

I KNOW THAT YOU ARE DEEP IN THIS AND YOU WERE ON THE SELECTION COMMITTEE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PROCESS.

WE ARE TAPING ON THURSDAY MORNING BUT THE CITY IS LOOKING TO MAYBE NOT HAVE HIM IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

>> I WAS ON THE SELECTION COMMITTEE AND FROM THE BEGINNING , THEY WERE CIVILIANS BEING CONSIDERED.

PEOPLE BEING PICKED WERE FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, FROM THE MISSION AND CHIEF.

THEY VERY WELL THAT CIVILIANS WERE GOING TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE JOB FROM THE BEGINNING.

THIS WHOLE THING ABOUT THE MAYOR TELLING THEM.

JIM: WHAT WAS THE JOB DESCRIPTION?

>> THEY WERE LOOKING FOR 70 HAS STRONG COMMUNITY TIES THAT IS WHAT IT IS ABOUT.

THE PERSON WHO COULD BEST DEAL WITH THE COMMUNITY TO RESTORE TRUST WHICH HAS BEEN FRACTURED OVER THE YEARS.

WE ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING OUT OF THE BOX, SOMETHING DRAMATIC TO RESTORE THAT TRUST WHICH HELPS REDUCE CRIME.

THAT NUMBER ONE FACTOR THAT HELPS SOLVE CRIME AND PREVENT CRIME IS THE COMMUNITY TRUST, WORKING WITH COMMUNITY PEOPLE.

THEY WANT TO RESTORE THAT.

THEY INCLUDED CIVILIANS AND PEOPLE WHO WERE AND FILE AS WELL .

THERE WERE FINALISTS WHO WERE POLICE OFFICERS INCLUDED AND THE MAN WHO MADE THE FINAL SELECTION CHOSE TO HE THOUGHT WOULD BE BEST FOR DIVERSION AND OTHER FACTORS THAT HE FEELS NEEDS TO BE DONE TO RESTORE COMMUNICATIONS.

IT WASN'T ANYTHING CRAZY.

IT WAS JUST A MOVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE DOING THE BEST I WEEKENDING, AND I UNDERSTAND THERE HAVE TO BE, AS WELL AS THE COMMISSIONER AND CHIEF HAVE CIVILIANS ON THE LIST.

I JUST THINK IT -- JIM: I JUST THINK IT STICKS IN THEIR CRAW.

>> IT IS JUST ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR THE POLICE, COMMUNITY RELATIONS.

THOSE ARE ADMIRABLE.

AND I AGREE WITH JIM.

IT REQUIRES BUILDING TRUST.

IT WAS CERTAINLY POLITICALLY TONE DEAF AT A MINIMUM, PARTICULARLY WHERE THERE IS A NEW WORRY ABOUT CRIME IN PROVIDENCE PAID YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT.

THE DUTIES AREN'T ALL COMMUNITIES GOOD THERE ARE OTHER DUTIES.

PICKING SOMEBODY WITH NO POLICE EXPERIENCE AT THIS TIME WHEN PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE A SENSE THAT THE SITUATION IN CRIME PROBLEMS IS OUT OF CONTROL, SOME OF THAT THINK IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.

THE MAYOR CAN PROBABLY CONTEST THIS.

IT COULD BE AN INTERESTING LONG-TERM FIGHT.

>> THE COUNCIL IS DEFUNDING IT ALREADY.

>> I THINK THIS IS A TIME FOR PRINCIPAL COMPROMISE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, BUT GENTLEMEN IS VERY WELL-QALIFIED IN WHAT HE DOES AS A COMMUNITY RELATIONS PERSON, TO PICK A POLICE PROFESSIONAL FOR THE ACTUAL POLICE POST.

DOREEN: FROM WHAT I READ, HE LOVES COMMUNITY AND OUTREACH.

CREATE A POSITION FOR HIM, NOT WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT.

WHAT THE CITY COUNCIL IS DOING IS PERFECTION, 100% PERFECTION.

>> HOW OFTEN DO WE GET TO SAY THAT?

DOREEN: I USUALLY DON'T SAY THAT.

I THINK THE POSITION SHOULD BE TERMINATED AND SHOULD NOT HAVE A POSITION WITH THE PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

HOWEVER, I THINK A NEW POSITION SHOULD BE CREATED FOR HIM AS COMMUNITY OUTREACH.

THIS IS AN OUTSTANDING GENTLEMAN AND UNFORTUNATELY HE IS GETTING HAMMERED IN THE PUBLIC BECAUSE OF THE POSITION.

HE HAS TO BE THINKING, WHAT DID I GET MYSELF INTO.

HE WILL BE GREAT AS A COMMUNITY OUTREACH LIAISON BUT DOES NOT BELONG ON THE POLICE FORCE.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW OPERATIONAL IT WOULD WORK.

I KNOW I HAVE FAITH IN THE COMMISSIONER AND THE CHIEF OF POLICE IN PROVIDENCE.

THEY FELT THIS MODEL COULD WORK.

THEY HAVE REASONS TO FEEL THIS MODEL COULD WORK.

>> OR WAS THE BOSS LEANING ON THEM TO MAKE THE DECISION ?

.

>> IF THEY DIDN'T THINK A CIVILIAN COULD BE IN THAT POSITION THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWING THEM.

>> DEAN ESSERMAN, WHO WE ALL KNOW, THEY ALWAYS HAD A BIG COLUMN IN THE RANK AND FILE BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER A POLICE OFFICER.

HE HAD GREAT IDEAS.

HE DID THAT COMMUNITY POLICING, BUT THERE WAS AN ELEMENT THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO RESPECT HIM BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GO THROUGH AN ACADEMY, DIDN'T CARRY A BADGE, DIDN'T TRAIN WITH A GUN THAT IS PROBLEMATIC WITHIN THE FORCE.

>> HE WAS POLICE CHIEF AND OTHER CITIES FOR THE CAME HERE.

I AM CLOSE TO WHERE DOREEN IS.

I THINK YOU CAN KEEP THE GENTLEMAN, MICHAEL STEVENS, WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, DISTANT MAKE HIM A POLICE OFFICER AT A MAJOR LEVEL.

I THINK IT IS A COMMUNITY LIAISON ROLE.

BUT ESPECIALLY AT THIS TIME IN PROVIDENCE, WE HAVE THIS CONCERN ABOUT CRIME AND YOU NEED MORE OUT OF THE POLICE APARTMENT.

PEACE IS THE COMMUNITY BUT A POLICE -- A PART OF IT IS ALSO THE POLICE -- IT IS ABOUT THE COMMUNITY, BUT AS A POLICE COME AS PART OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, SO.

>> IS OF THE LARGER ISSUE WHERE POLICING IS GOING.

THE DIVERSION PROGRAMS.

MAYBE IT IS NOT AN OFFICER, BUT MAYBE IT IS A MENTAL HEALTH PERCENT AND THEY BROUGHT MIKE STEVENS IN TO DO THAT.

ISN'T THAT THE LARGER ARGUMENT GOING ON ABOUT POLICING?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LOTS OF THE CALLS THAT COME INTO NOT REQUIRED A BADGE.

SO THOSE RUNNING AROUND GETTING CATS OUT OF TREES.

>> A LOT OF METAL HEALTH ISSUES.

>> A LOT OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND THAT IS WHY THE PROGRAM WILL ENCOURAGE THAT KIND OF RESPONSE BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY YOU DEAL WITH CERTAIN SITUATIONS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WITH A BADGE AND A GUN.

SO THIS VERSION PROGRAM THAT MICHAEL STEVENS, AND I KNOW HIM WELL.

>> HOW GOOD OF A RAFT?

-- REF?

>> ONE OF THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE.

>> HE GOT THE KEY TO THE CITY AFTER TWO QUESTIONABLE CALLS.

>> THAT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE BIASED.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT BECAUSE I CHANGED MY POSITION.

>> I AGREE ON THE DIVERSION OF THEM.

BUT AS YOU CHANGE THE TWIST DEPARTMENT, YOU HAVE TO CHANGE IT SO MAYBE THIS IS THE KIND OF SHOCK STUFF YOU NEED TO DO.

AS YOU CHANGE THE CULTURE, YOU ARE BETTER OFF NOT BEING -- MAKING MOVES LIKE THESE.

>> YOU HAVE A CULTURE THAT SAYS IN TERMS OF LONG DOING THAT THAT'S OK. WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT CULTURE AS WELL.

WE HAVE TWO CHANGE A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT PAID WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE DOING THINGS AND NOT BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE, THAT IS A PROBLEM.

>> FINAL WORD ON THAT?

DOREEN: YOU SAID 90% DON'T REQUIRE A BADGE AND A GUN HERE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT REQUIRES A BADGE AND A GUN INTO YOU GET TO THAT CALL.

YOU DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A THOMISTIC DISPUTE AND ONE HAS A FIREARM.

YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A MENTALLY -- YOU DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A DOMESTIC DISPUTE AND THEY HAVE A FIREARM.

YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU HVE A MENTALLY DISTURBANCE.

>> THESE ARE BEING TRACKED AFTER THE FACT.

DOREEN: EXACTLY.

>> AFTER THE FACT, 90% WAS DETERMINED NOT TO MEET NEEDED.

>> THESE PROGRAMS ARE WORKING IN L.A. AND OTHER PLACES.

THEY ARE TESTED WAYS TO DO THIS.

I AGREE WITH JIM ON THE SUBSTANCE OF CERTAIN POLICE REFORM AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

I DO THINK THIS IS MORE JUST POLITICAL AND THIS PARTICULAR MOVE, AS IT WAS LAMENTED INITIALLY, IS NOT HELPING IN THAT DIRECTION, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS INTENDED TO HELP.

CORRECTION IS CALLED FOR BUT THERE IS A COURSE CORRECTION THAT IS EASY TO GET TO.

JIM: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE 20TH ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11 COMING UP ON DADDY.

LET'S SOUND WITH THE OUTRAGEOUS AND/OR KUDOS.

DOREEN: I HAVE AN OUTREACH WITH THE SCHOOL DEPARTMENT.

HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT YOU HAVE MOLD IN YOUR SCHOOL ALL SUMMER?

THESE KIDS ARE SO EXCITED TO GET BACK TO SCHOOL AND SOME NORMALCY AND NOW THEY ARE BACK TO DISTANCE LEARNING BECAUSE YOU FOUND MOLD.

WHAT DID YOU DO ALL SUMMER?

THESE KIDS DESERVE TO BE IN THEIR CLASSROOMS AND MORE RESUME AND DISTANT LEARNING.

>> YOU HAVE A LOT OF SLOSHING AROUND.

DOREEN: YOU PROBABLY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO REDO THE SCHOOLS IN THE STATE.

ROB: I HAVE A KUDO.

20 YEARS AGO, THE PRESIDENT ON 911 WAS GEORGE W -- NINE/11 WAS GEORGE W. BUSH.

HIS LEADERSHIP IN THE EARLY DAYS AFTER WAS EXCEPTIONAL.

I WANT TO PARTICULARLY CALL ATTENTION TO SOMETHING HE DID SIX DAYS AFTER 9/11 WHEN HE WENT TO THE ISLAMIC CENTER IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND AT TIMES WHERE MUSLIMS ARE BEING TARGETED BY VIGILANTE JUSTICE.

JIM: INCLUDE THE GUY WHO TOOK THE TRAIN TO PROVIDENCE.

REMEMBER THAT?

ROB: EXACTLY.

HE SAID MUSLIMS ARE OUR FELLOW CITIZENS AND TAXPAYERS AND WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 WAS A VIOLATION OF THE TENETS OF HIS HIM.

-- OF ISLAM.

THAT IS THE KIND OF LEADERSHIP THAT WE NEED TO SEE.

JIM: AN OLD OUTREACH THAT CONTINUES.

WE TALK ABOUT DEMOCRACY.

34 STATES, 400 BILLS WITH VOTER SUPPRESSION.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THE ELIMINATION OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965, ALL BECAUSE OF THE BIG LIE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

WE ARE PUTTING IN PLACE LEGISLATION TO CORRECT A PROBLEM THAT WAS NEVER THERE.

THERE IS NO MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD.

ALL OF THE VOTER SUPPRESSION TECHNIQUES ARE GOING TO THWART DEMOCRACY.

IT WILL HAVE PEOPLE THROWING COLLECTIONS OUT THEY DON'T AGREE WITH.

THEY WILL BE PRESSING VOTE ON PEOPLE DURING A PANDEMIC HAD COME OUT.

THEY WILL TAKE AWAY ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS BECAUSE IT ISN'T THE RIGHT KIND OF PEOPLE VOTING.

SLATERS SHOULD NOT BE PICKING THE VOTERS, THE VOTERS SHOULD BE -- LEGISLATORS SHOULD NOT BE PICKING THE VOTERS, THE VOTERS SHOULD BE PICKING THE LEGISLATORS.

MARTIN LUTHER KING WOULD BE ROLLING IN HIS GRAVE.

ROB: THAT IS WHOLE OTHER DISCUSSION YOU WILL HAVE AFTER THE SHOW.

I DON'T WANT TO TURN TO NOREEN.

WE WILL DO THAT -- TO DOREEN.

WILL TURN TO THAT LATER.

LET'S TURN TO 9/11.

YOUR REFLECTIONS AND WHAT HAS CHANGED AND GETTING OUT OF PLANE IS NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE.

DOREEN: I REMEMBER DRIVING TO WORK AND HAD THE RADIO ON AND THAT IS STATIONS STARTED RAKING.

AND THEN -- BREAKING.

AND THEN I HEAR -- I HEARD A SECOND PLANE AND KNEW IT WASN'T AN ACCIDENT.

I DIDN'T GO TO WORK I TURNED AROUND AND WENT HOME AND LISTENED.

I CAN'T BELIEVE 20 YEARS IS COMING UP.

YOU JUST REFLECT AND HAVE TO KEEP THINKING OF EVERYONE WHO LOST THEIR LIVES AND THANK YOU, ROB, FOR MENTIONING PRESIDENT BUSH BECAUSE HE DID A GOOD JOB.

ROB: AND REALLY GIULIANI -- AND RUDY GIULIANI.

DOREEN: I REMEMBER THREE DAYS AFTER, SITTING IN THE YARD HAVING COFFEE AND NOT A PLANE IN THE SKY.

ROB: FOUR WEEKS.

DOREEN: I GOT GOOSEBUMPS AND TEARED UP AND THOUGHT, IS IT ALWAYS GOING TO BE LIKE THIS.

JIM: I WAS LISTENING TO THE RADIO AND I WAS ON MY WAY TO CVS TO TAKE FILM TO DEVELOP FOR MY KID'S BIRTHDAY PARTY.

THINK OF THAT.

I REMEMBER HIM INTERVIEWING SOMEBODY ABOUT THE LEGAL DEFENSE FUND.

YOU COULD TELL SOMETHING IN HIS VOICE WAS WRONG AND HE WAS IMMEDIATELY CUT OFF.

THEY WENT TO NEW YORK AND I WILL NEVER FORGET THIS, I DROPPED THE FILM OFF AND CAME BACK AND HE SAID HE WATCHED THE PLANE AND HE WAS LIVE ON THE AIR.

HE SAID I COULDN'T LEAVE IT.

I NEVER HEARD JIM HICKEY FLUSTERED.

>> I WAS IN DISBELIEF.

I DIDN'T THINK ANYONE WOULD BE SO RAISIN TO ATTACK OUR COUNTRY.

NOT THAT WE ARE INDESTRUCTIBLE HERE BUT TWO PLANES GOING INTO BUILDINGS IN NEW YORK CITY?

NOBODY IN THEIR WILDEST IMAGINATION LEAD SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD HAPPEN AND YET IT HAPPENED.

OUR WAY OF LIFE HAS CHANGED.

WE CAN'T GO TO THE AIRPORT WITHOUT TAKING OFF OUR SHOES.

IT WILL NOT THE SAME AS BEFORE THREE AND 11 -- BEFORE PRE-9/11.

AND ALSO THE BACKLASH AGAINST MUSLIMS THAT CONTINUES TO THIS DAY WHICH IS SO UNFAIR WHEN YOU USE SOMETHING THAT TRAGIC TO CAPTURE BIGOTRY AGAINST THE PEOPLE.

>> I REMEMBER FLYING RIGHT WHEN I HAD A PRETTY BOOKED -- A PRE-BOOKED TRIP.

MY SISTER-IN-LAW WAS IN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS BASED OUT OF SEATTLE AND FOR MY THEN WIFE AND FAMILY, SHE WAS TRACKING MY TRIP , JUST TO MAKE SURE.

IT WAS A GREAT FLIGHT KNOWN WAS ON IT.

I GOT TO DENVER JUST FINE.

THE ONE THING I NOTICED IS HOW THE CONTEE -- THE COUNTRY RESPONDED AND IS MORE UNIFIED.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE 9/11 COMMISSION THAT WAS BIPARTISAN AND THE CHANGE TO THE HOMELAND SECURITY AND WE HAD OUR BUMPS IN THE ROAD IN THE WAR ON TERROR, BUT GENERALLY IF YOU LOOK BACK ON IT, IT WAS THE POLICY SUCCESS IF YOU HAVE TO EVALUATE IN BROAD STROKES PAID I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME OF THAT SAME TODAY ON THE BIG CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE.

>> I HAD A COLLEGE REUNION IN NORTH CAROLINA WITH SOME OF THE PEOPLE I WORKED ON THE NEWSPAPER WITHIN IT WAS OUR 20TH ANNIVERSARY.

I WAS SUPPOSED TO FLY OUT SATURDAY AND I THOUGHT, THE PLANES WILL BE RUNNING BY SATURDAY.

WE RESCHEDULED IT FOR A MONTH LATER.

I WASN'T WORRIED.

FIGURED IT WAS THE SAFEST TIME TO FLY BUT THERE WAS AN EERIE SENSE IN LINE.

I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THAT UNITY APPEARED WE HAVE LOST THAT.

YOU THINK HOW EVERY DEMOCRAT, INDEPENDENT, WHATEVER, WAS SO UNIFIED AFTER THAT.

DOREEN: I DON'T THINK WE ARE GOING TO BE UNIFIED IN THIS COUNTRY FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

I HONESTLY DON'T.

PEOPLE HATE JOE BIDEN.

PEOPLE HATE PRESIDENT TRUMP.

I THOUGHT WILLIAM GOING TO HAVE THE SHOW WITHOUT -- I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THE SHOW WITHOUT BRINGING HIM UP, BUT YOU DID BRING HIM UP.

WE DO A WHOLE SHOW ON AFGHANISTAN AND HOW PRESIDENT BIDEN IS MESSING UP.

HE JUST HAVE TO PUT ON THE NEWS.

I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE LEFT OR RIGHT, THEY ARE ALL SAYING THE SAME THING WITH THE 41% APPROVAL RATING.

THIS COUNTRY IS TOTALLY DIVIDED.

>> THAT IS THE AFTER SHOW PREVIEW CAN TALK ABOUT VOTER SUPPRESSION AND ALL OF THAT.

THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TODAY.

LOOK AT THIS UNITY.

ROB I JIM -- ROB, JIM, DOREEN, THANK YOU.

COME BACK NEXT WEEK.

WE HAVE THREE OF THE TOP ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE STATE HERE ON THE SET.

WE WILL HAVE THAT FOR YOU NEXT WEEK.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK COME BACK HERE NEXT WEEK AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

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