>> THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS REVERSES COURT -- COURSE.

A CHALLENGE TO A NEW STATE LAW REGULATING SHORELINE ACCESS MAKES IT TO A COURTROOM.

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL SHOULD FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM ALLEN PBS.

JIM: JOINING US, PROFESSOR ADAM MYERS, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR DON ROACH, AND PROVIDENCE REPORTER ANTONIA NOORI FARZAN.

WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'’S LIVELY.

I AM JIM HUMMEL.

NEVER MIND.

A MONTH AFTER APPROVING PLANS TO SUBPOENA SOME COMPANION WORKERS FOR SABINA MATOS IN HER CD1 SIGNATURE SCANDAL, THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS DECIDED NOT TO PURSUE ANY FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

IT WILL NOW BE UP TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHO HAS GIVEN NO INDICATION OF A TIMETABLE ON HIS OWN INVESTIGATION OF THE FRAUDULENT SIGNATURES.

ADAM, LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU.

ANY SURPRISE HERE THAT THEY DID A 180?

WERE YOU SURPRISED?

>> IT'’S A CLOSE CALL.

IT WAS INTERESTING THAT THE STATE'’S TWO LEADING GOVERNMENT WATCHDOG ORGANIZATIONS HAD DIFFERENT POSITIONS ON THIS MATTER.

THE ACLU WANTED THE INVESTIGATION TO CLOSE.

THEIR VIEW WAS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'’S HANDLING OF IT, SUBPOENAING THESE CAMPAIGN WORKERS WOULD HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON FUTURE CAMPAIGN WORKERS.

COMMON CAUSE THOUGHT WE NEED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS.

I SHOULD MENTION THAT I'’M ON THE GOVERNING BOARD OF COMMON CAUSE.

IT WILL NOT SURPRISE YOU TO LEARN THAT I THINK IT WAS A MISTAKE.

THE TAXPAYERS, THE CITIZENS OF RHODE ISLAND DESERVE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

IT'’S IMPORTANT.

IT'’S IMPORTANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS SO IT DOESN'’T HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> I WONDER HOW MUCH OF THIS IS THAT SABINA MATOS GOT CREAMED IN THE PRIMARY.

I DON'’T KNOW WHETHER THAT FACTORS IN AT ALL.

ANTONIA: IT IS STILL A KIND OF BAD LOOK FOR THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO SUBPOENA EVERYONE AND AFTER SHE LOST SAY WE ARE NOT.

IT SEEMS LIKE THE ACLU LETTER FACTORED HEAVILY.

SOME BOARD NUMBERS DECIDED THAT LETTER SAYING DO NOT DO THIS AS THEIR REASON FOR NOT MOVING FORWARD.

THERE IS THIS WHOLE NARRATIVE THAT SPELLED OUT THAT THIS WAS POLITICAL INTERFERENCE, THAT SHE'’S BEING PERSECUTED, AND IT DOESN'’T HELP WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS.

>> IT DEFINITELY SEEMS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED THAT, AFTER THE ELECTION SHE LOST, THEY ARE LIKE, IT'’S GOOD.

WE WERE ABLE TO DO WHAT WE WANTED TO DO, WHICH IS TAKE OUT YOUR CAMPAIGN, BUT NOW WE DON'’T NEED TO DO THAT.

FOR ME, IF YOU LIKE AN INVESTIGATION SHOULD STILL HAPPEN.

WE WANT TO DETER PEOPLE FROM -- WHETHER IT'’S MALICIOUSLY OR NOT, GATHERING SIGNATURES, VERY SERIOUSLY.

IF THERE WAS ANY MALE INTENT BY SOME ACTORS, AS I THINK SHE SAID IT' POSSIBLE COULD HAVE HAPPEN WITH SOME PEOPLE SHE HIRED, WE DON'’T WANT THAT IN OUR ELECTIONS.

>> AS I READ IT, THE ACLU CONCERN WAS THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE THAT SHE MENTIONED THE CHILLING EFFECT.

IF THEY START SUBPOENAING PEOPLE, THE WORKERS WILL BE WORRIED.

IF YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

I DON'’T GET THAT.

>> THAT'’S TRUE EXCEPT AS BEST AS WE CAN SELL ONLY TWO OF THE 11 SIGNATURE GATHERERS ON THE CAMPAIGN HAVE BEEN IMPLICATED IN THIS.

THE PROPOSAL WAS TO HAVE ALL 11 COME AND TESTIFY.

AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF YOU DID NOTHING WRONG, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE WORRIED ABOUT PERJURY AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.

I AM PUTTING MYSELF IN THE POSITION OF A CAMPAIGN WORKER, YOU KNOW, AND ASKING MYSELF, WHAT I REALLY WANT TO WORK ON THE CAMPAIGN IN RHODE ISLAND GATHERING SIGNATURES KNOWING THAT SOMETHING COULD GO WRONG AND I COULD BE CALLED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE BOARD?

I JUST DON'’T KNOW WHAT I WOULD THINK IF I WERE IN THAT SITUATION.

>> WE ALSO ALL THE CANDIDATES.

I SAW WALTER IN MY TOWN AND I NEVER SIGNED BECAUSE OF THE POSITION WE ARE IN BUT I ALSO WONDER WHETHER THAT IS GOING TO HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON PEOPLE WHEN THEY GO TO ASK THEM TO SIGN.

IS TIM WHITE GOING TO SHOW UP AT MY DOOR OR SOME OTHER REPORTER TO SAY IS THIS REALLY YOUR SIGNATURE?

>> MAYBE.

YEAH.

I DON'’T KNOW HOW CLOSELY PEOPLE FOLLOW HIM, IF THAT'’S REALLY GOING TO TRANSLATE A COUPLE YEARS FROM NOW.

IT TOOK A LOT OF PEOPLE TO SIGN IT BECAUSE THEY WANT THE PERSON OUT OF THEIR WAY SO THEY CAN LOAD THEIR GROCERIES INTO THE CAR.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY I DON'’T WANT TO BE AFRAID OF GHOSTS, THOUGH.

WHEN YOU ARE GATHERING SIGNATURES, GOING TO PEOPLES HOUSES, AS A FORMER CANDIDATE, YOU CAN HAVE SOME GOOD CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE.

IT'’S ALL PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE WANT SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE SO THAT PEOPLE DON'’T ABUSE THE SYSTEM.

SHE STILL GATHERED ENOUGH SIGNATURES OR HAD ENOUGH SIGNATURES CERTIFIED, BUT I DO THINK, IF NOBODY DOES ANYTHING ABOUT THIS, THEN THE ANSWER IS YOU CAN STILL DO THIS IN THE FUTURE.

>> WE ARE NECKDEEP IN THE CD1 RACE AND YOU ARE NECKDEEP IN THE PRIMARY.

YOU DID A LOT OF PRIMARY COVERAGE, YOU AND PATRICK ANDERSON.

IT'’S BEEN 10 DAYS, BUT NEW PANEL.

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THE RESULTS?

>> I WAS SURPRISED BY HOW QUICKLY WE GOT THE RESULTS.

I WAS GEARING UP FOR IT TO BE A LATE NIGHT, THINKING WE WOULD NOT KNOW FOR A COUPLE DAYS.

AND BY 9:00, WE WERE WRAPPED UP AND KNEW WHO HAD ONE.

SO I DON'’T THINK THE RESULT WAS NECESSARILY SURPRISING.

NOT THAT I PREDICTED IT.

I WROTE ABOUT FOUR DIFFERENT STORIES AS WE DO TRYING TO PREDICT DIFFERENT OUTCOMES.

BUT DEFINITELY THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE A LOT CLOSER WHOEVER CAME IN FIRST.

>> WHERE YOU SURPRISED BY ELMO?

>> MODERATELY SURPRISED.

I HAD A SENSE VOTERS IN CD1 WERE SEARCHING FOR AN ALTERNATIVE TO REAGAN BERG IN THE AFTERMATH OF MATOS'’S COLLAPSE.

I THOUGHT THAT MIGHT BE AMO GIVEN THE EXPOSURE ON TV AND HOW WELL HE DID IN THE DEBATE THE WEEK BEFORE THE PRIMARY.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I HAD AN INKLING THAT HE MIGHT WIN, BUT I THOUGHT THE SIZE OF HIS VICTORY, THE NINE PERCENTAGE POINTS SEPARATING HIM AND REAGANBERG, THAT I WOULD NOT HAVE EXPECTED.

>> THAT'’S PROBABLY WHY WE THOUGHT IF IT'’S CLOSE IT WILL GO TO MAIL BALLOTS.

SURPRISED?

>> I WOULD NOT SAY I FOLLOWED IT THAT CLOSELY.

>> YOU ARE WAITING FOR THE MAIN EVENT.

>> YES.

THE DEMOCRATS WOULD SAY THAT WAS THE MAIN EVENT BUT YES.

I HOLD OUT HOPE THAT NOVEMBER IS TRULY THE MAIN EVENT.

I THINK HE JUST IS A -- HE HAS PORTRAYED HIMSELF -- A SON OF IMMIGRANTS FROM A BUCKET -- FROM PAWTUCKET, JUST A REGULAR GUY DOING WELL FOR THE STATE, AND I THINK HE WAS NOT AS POLITICAL AS SOME OF HIS OTHER OPPONENTS -- POLITICIZED, I SHOULD SAY.

>> YEAH.

IT WAS POSITIVE AS FAR AS I COULD SEE.

SOME OUTSIDE MONEY CAME IN, BUT HE ALWAYS KEPT THE POSITIVE MESSAGE.

HIS ADS MADE IT SOUND LIKE HE HAD THE NUCLEAR CODES AND HE WAS VACATIONING WITH JOE BIDEN AT REHOBETH BEACH, BUT THAT'’S THE WAY IT'’S GOING TO BE.

NOW WE GET TO THE MAIN EVENT.

GERRY LEONARD HAS TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF, BASICALLY, IN THE WAY THAT GABE AMO HAD TO.

>>'’S CHALLENGES ARE MANY.

I WOULD DISAGREE THAT THIS NOVEMBER ELECTION IS THE MAIN EVENT.

I THINK THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY WAS THE MAIN EVENT BECAUSE THIS IS A BIDEN PLUS 30 DISTRICT AND GERRY LEONARD'’S CHANCES ARE SLIM.

LISTEN.

HE IS DOING ALL THE RIGHT THINGS NOW.

DEALT, THAT BEING THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE IN AN OVERWHELMINGLY DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT, PRETTY WELL.

HE'’S TALKING ABOUT HOW HE'’S A COMMON SENSE GUY, YOU KNOW, A CONSTITUENCY OVER PARTY.

HE'’S CALLING HIMSELF A YANKEE REPUBLICAN, SAYING HE DOES NOT HAVE A SOCIAL AGENDA.

TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, THIS IS THE FORMULA FOR A REPUBLICAN TO WIN IN RHODE ISLAND IF WE WERE IN 1993, NOT IN 2023.

BUT IN 2023, PEOPLE TEND TO VOTE THEIR PARTY, FOCUS A LOT ON THE PROFILE OF THE NATIONAL PARTIES, AND, YOU KNOW, TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, I DON'’T THINK HE CAN OVERCOME THAT.

>> YOUR GO TO BE COVERING, I ASSUME.

>> YEAH.

IT SEEMS WE ARE ALMOST GOING TO GET A REPLAY OF THE CD2 RACE, HAVING ONE GUY SAYING DON'’T VOTE FOR THIS GUY, THE OTHER SAYING DON'’T VOTE FOR THIS GUY, AND BOTH OF THEM THROWING MUD IN THAT WAY, BUT IN THIS CASE IT'’S NOT REALLY A COMPETITIVE DISTRICT LIKE IT WAS LAST TIME.

I DO THINK -- IT'’LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE LEONARD INTRODUCE HIMSELF MORE DURING THE PRIMARY -- INTRODUCE HIMSELF MORE.

DURING THE PRIMARY, HE WAS MEDIA SHY.

WE REACHED OUT TO HIM TO DO A CANDIDATE QUESTIONNAIRE OR INTERVIEW AND HE KIND OF DID NOT EVEN REBUFF US BUT DID NOT EVEN HAVE A RESPONSE.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HIM.

>> I READ PATRICK'’S PIECE ON MONDAY IN POLITICAL SCENE, YOUR COLLEAGUE, AND I THINK HE'’S NAVIGATING THE RIGHT WAY.

YOU NOW, I WOULD NOT WANT A FEDERAL ABORTION BAN.

WE HAVE LEARNED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY IF YOU GO THE RON DESANTIS ROUTE OR KANSAS ROUTE, THAT MIGHT BE A PROBLEM.

I WAS SURPRISED BY THAT TOO, ANTONIA.

HE PASSED ON FREE COVERAGE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SUNDAY JOURNAL AND SAID THAT HIS CAMPAIGN SAID WE HAVE RECEIVED THE QUESTIONNAIRE.

WE ARE JUST NOT GOING TO ANSWER IT.

WHO DOES THAT?

>> WHAT'’S INTERESTING IS HOW LITTLE NATIONAL INVOLVEMENT -- I'’M NOT THE FIRST TO POINT THIS OUT THE REPORTERS KEEP GETTING PRESS RELEASES ATTACKING SETH MAGAZINER, WHO HAS NOT -- IT WAS NOT THE BALLOT THIS YEAR.

IT SEEMS LIKELY NATIONAL PARTY IS NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

>> WHAT WAS IT, $18 MILLION LAST YEAR?

BECAUSE THAT SEAT WAS AT STAKE.

I DON'’T THINK WE WILL SEE ANY NATIONAL MONEY THIS YEAR.

>> IF WE DO, VERY LITTLE.

THAT IS TELLING.

I DON'’T THINK THE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN PARTY CONSIDERS THIS A COMPETITIVE SEAT.

AND, YOU KNOW, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THE SPECIAL ELECTION WILL BE LOW TURNOUT, THINGS CAN HAPPEN, BUT I THINK THE CHANCES OF THIS NOT BEING AN AMO VICTORY ARE SLIM.

THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING UNEXPECTED, A SCANDAL OR MAJOR GAFFE, BUT EVEN THEN, AND A DISTRICT LIKE THIS, I DON'’T SEE IT.

>> I THINK LEONARD IS AN ATTRACTIVE CANDIDATE.

30 YEARS MILITARY EXPERIENCE.

HE'’S MODERATE.

BUT JUST WHAT I'’VE SEEN OF HIM, I FEEL LIKE THE THING THAT HE NEEDS TO DO THAT I THINK AMO DID WELL IS JUST BE YOURSELF.

DON'’T TRY TO DEFINE YOURSELF AS THE NOT THIS PERSON.

DEFINE YOURSELF AS YOU.

AND I THINK HE WOULD BE VERY ATTRACTIVE TO RHODE ISLANDERS.

BUT A LOT OF TIMES, PEOPLE GET INTO CANDIDATES YEARS, LIKE, THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD RUN, THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD ANSWER THAT QUESTION, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE YOURSELF.

TRUMP WON BY BEING HIMSELF.

IF HE HAD TRIED TO BE SOME OF THE ELVES, HE COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT, AND HE WOULD NOT HAVE WON.

FOR ALL CANDIDATES, BE YOURSELF AND SEE IF THAT'’S COMPELLING TO VOTERS.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY SPEAKING OF TRUMP, FROM WHAT I'’VE SEEN OF LEONARD IN THE INTERVIEWS HE'’S BEEN DOING RECENTLY, HE'’S TRYING TO DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM TRUMP, SAYING HE DOES NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT HIM, BUT I DON'’T THINK THAT WORKS IN A RACE FOR CONGRESS.

LET'’S FACE THE TRUTH.

TRUMP WILL IN ALL LIKELIHOOD BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE.

THAT MAKES HIM THE STANDARDBEARER FOR LEONARD'’S PARTY.

HE'’S RUNNING FOR NATIONAL OFFICE SO HE WILL HAVE TO INTERACT WITH THE PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS.

YOU CANNOT AVOID THE TRUMP ISSUE WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING FOR CONGRESS.

>> WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN INTO THE DEBATES YET, BUT HARKENING BACK TO CD2, SETH MAGAZINER CAP POUNDING AWAY -- MAGAZINER KEPT POUNDING AWAY.

THE FIRST VOTES YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE ARE FOR THE CRAZIES, FOR KEVIN MCCARTHY AND THE WHOLE RIGHT WING SQUAD, MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE AT ALL THAT.

I WONDER HOW MUCH OF THAT WILL COME UP TO REMIND PEOPLE OF WHAT IS AT STAKE IN CONGRESS.

>> ABSOLUTELY ONCE WE GET TO THE DEBATES.

THE TRUMP QUESTION IS WHEN HE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER.

PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW WHERE YOU FIT IN WITH AN REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> IT LOOKS LIKE HE'’S AGREED TO A LOT OF DEBATES AND I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY GOOD.

>> THAT IS GOOD FOR HIM WHEN YOU ARE LIKELY NOT TO WIN.

YOU NEED THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.

WHY HE DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTIONNAIRE, I AM NOT SURE.

>> IT HAS TO BE COMING FROM OUTSIDE.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS IN THE 40 YEARS I HAVE BEEN HERE.

HE ANNOUNCED -- NORMALLY YOU HAVE THE BIG PODIUM.

NOW SOME PEOPLE DO IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

HE ANNOUNCED AND SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED REPORTERS FROM THE ANNOUNCEMENT.

I THOUGHT THAT'’S A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

YOU WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT.

>> CANDIDATE DON ROACH WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK REPUBLICANS IN THIS STATE TYPICALLY DOOM MAKE NOT COME -- TYPICALLY DO MAKE NOT COMMON SENSE DECISIONS WHEN THEY ARE DOING THINGS AND I THINK THEY ALIENATE THEMSELVES FROM RHODE ISLAND VOTERS.

IT IS JUST COMMON SENSE YOU WANT REPORTERS THERE.

ANY KIND OF ATTENTION IS GOOD ATTENTION, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE AN UNKNOWN CANDIDATE.

>> FINAL THOUGHTS ON THE RACE?

>> I DON'’T THINK THERE WILL BE ANY SURPRISES.

I THINK AMO WILL WIN EASILY AND, AS I SAID EARLIER, THE ONLY THING THAT COULD CHANGE THAT IS AN OCTOBER SURPRISE, SO TO SPEAK.

>> STRANGER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.

>> WE HAVE YOU BOTH ON TAPE.

ANOTHER ISSUE WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT A LOT AND WAS BIG AT THE END OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS THE GENERAL A SIMILE PASSED A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT SHORELINE ACCESS BILL.

YOU MAY HAVE SEEN PEOPLE ARE TESTING THIS NOW.

THESE TO HAVE SECURITY GUARDS OUT.

THEY REALLY DON'’T WANT THE CONTROVERSY ANYMORE.

IT ALLOWS YOU 10 FEET UP FROM THE SEAWEED, THE RACK LINE, HIGH TIDE, WHEREVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, AND THERE'’S A COURT CHALLENGE FROM SOME PROPERTY OWNERS, A COALITION.

ANTONIA, YOU ARE IN COURT THIS WEEK.

IT'’S REACHING FEDERAL COURT.

>> AT THIS POINT, BOTH SIDES ARE ARGUING SHOULD THIS EVEN BE IN FEDERAL COURT, ARE THE PLAINTIFFS SUING THE WRONG PEOPLE?

IT'’S VERY MUCH PROCEDURAL AT THIS POINT, THE STATE TRYING TO GET IT THROWN OUT.

BUT IT WAS KIND OF INTERESTING TO GET A PREVIEW OF -- EVEN THOUGH IT WILL BE A WHILE BEFORE A DECISION ON THIS UNDERLYING QUESTION, WHICH IS THIS A TAKING OF PRIVATE PROPERTY, THEY WERE TESTING THE ARGUMENTS.

THE JUDGE HAD DONE HIS HOMEWORK, KNEW A LOT ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND WAS PUSHING BACK ON BOTH OF THEM.

>> IT WAS FUNNY BECAUSE THE JUDGE WILL SUBMIT -- I HAVE KNOWN HIM FOR YEARS.

HE'’S FROM IDAHO.

HE'’S GOT A LOT OF SHORELINE ACCESS THINGS IN THE PAST.

FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION, SET UP EXACTLY WHAT THE LAW DOES AND WHAT THE PROPERTY OWNERS THINK.

>> THE LAW SAYS THAT YOU CAN BE ON THE BEACH IF YOU ARE ABOUT 10 FEET OF THE SEAWEED LINE, WHEREVER THAT IS THAT DAY, AND THE PUBLIC HAS THE RIGHT TO USE THAT.

SO THE ARGUMENT FROM THE PROPERTY OWNERS IS ESSENTIALLY YOU JUST GAVE THE PUBLIC AN EASEMENT TO MY PROPERTY AND THAT'’S A TAKING WITHOUT COMPENSATION.

CRUCIALLY, THEY ARE NOT ASKING FOR COMPENSATION.

THIS CAME UP IN COURT.

THE JUDGE KIND OF ASKED, YOU NEVER ASKED FOR ANY MONEY.

THEY SAID THAT'’S NOT WHAT WE WANT BECAUSE THAT LINE IS MOVING SO HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE COMPENSATION IS?

>> GET YOUR MITTS OFF OUR PROPERTY.

>> BASICALLY.

>> IN READING ANTONIA'’S, MY PERSPECTIVE -- PERCEPTION WAS THE PROPERTY OWNERS OVERSHOT.

THEY WENT DIRECTLY TO FEDERAL COURT AND ARE ASKING A JUDGE TO DECLARE A STATE LAW ON CONSTITUTIONAL AND -- STATE LAW UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND FOR A FEDERAL JUDGE THAT'’S A HEAVY LIFT.

THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT BUT THEY TRY TO BE DEFERENTIAL TO STATE LAWS AND LEGISLATURES BECAUSE THEY WERE ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE IN FEDERAL JUDGES WERE NOT.

AS SHE SAID, THE JUDGE ASKED THE LAWYERS FOR THE PLAINTIFFS, WHY DIDN'’T YOU GO TO STATE COURT AND SEEK COMPENSATION?

THEY SAID BECAUSE IT IS TOO HARD GIVEN THAT THE LINE IS MOVING AND SO FORTH.

IT SOUNDS LIKE JUDGE SMITH WAS SKEPTICAL OF THAT ARGUMENT.

>> BASICALLY YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT.

>> FOR ME, I GUESS HOW I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ISSUE IS, LIKE, IS IT LIKE A SIDEWALK FOR THE BEACH?

LIKE YOU ARE JUST WALKING ALONG THE BEACH AND AS LONG AS YOU STAY WITHIN THESE PARAMETERS YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO WALK WHEREVER.

I DON'’T KNOW IF YOU CAN PUT CHAIRS DOWN.

I THOUGHT ABOUT IT.

IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, PEOPLE COULD, LIKE, SIT DOWN ON THE SIDEWALK, HANG OUT, AND IT MIGHT BE INCONVENIENT OR ANNOYING TO ME, BUT THEY PROBABLY HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SO, AND SO I THINK THE LAW -- WHEN I FIRST SAW IT, I THOUGHT THIS DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE, BECAUSE IT'’S PRIVATE PROPERTY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME YOU CANNOT WALK THROUGH PRIVATE PROPERTY JUST TO GET TO THESE SPACES, SO TO ME, KIND OF MAKES SENSE.

IT'’S LIKE A SIDEWALK BUT YOU CANNOT GO THROUGH PRIVATE PROPERTY.

I DON'’T THINK THE PEOPLE, THE PLAINTIFFS, ARE GOING TO WIN THIS.

>> ABOUT THE SIDEWALK ANALOGY, IT'’S EXACTLY WHAT ONE OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS WHO HELPED DRAFT THE LAW USED WHEN THEY WERE WORKING ON IT.

>> HE DIDN'’T KNOW.

>> THE QUESTION THEY DID NOT ADDRESS IS YOUR POINT ABOUT CAN YOU SET UP CHAIRS.

THEY DELIBERATELY AVOIDED THAT AND SAID A COURT WILL HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

>> BUT THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE BROAD TOWELS.

WE ARE HERE, WHY SHOULDN'’T WE BE ABLE TO STAY HERE?

IT IS NOT JUST A PASS-THROUGH.

MAYBE WE WILL CALL IT THE SIDEWALK DOCTRINE.

WHY FEDERAL COURT INITIALLY?

WHAT WAS THE THOUGHT?

>> THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE IT A FEDERAL ISSUE.

>> THE OTHER ISSUE YOU TALKED ABOUT IS IT IS THE NORTH-SOUTH VERSUS EAST-WEST.

THAT'’S BEEN A HUGE DEAL IN RHODE ISLAND, IS ALL THESE PRIVATE OWNERS BLOCKING OFF WHAT ARE LOCALLY APPROVED PUBLIC ACCESS.

THAT IS THE NEXT ISSUE.

IT'’S ESTABLISHED, BUT TO OPEN IT UP AND ENFORCE IT.

>> THAT'’S AN ISSUE THAT SHOULD NOT BE RESOLVED IN FEDERAL COURT.

THERE'’S OTHER AVENUES FOR RESOLVING THAT.

I GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID EARLIER.

IT SEEMS LIKE THE PLAINTIFFS ARE ASKING FOR TOO MUCH.

>> YEAH.

>> ONE OTHER STORY ANTONIA DID THIS WEEK.

THIS IS A CLASSIC RHODE ISLAND STORY.

DON, YOU WILL APPRECIATE THIS.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE BUD LONG POOL.

SET THE TABLE.

HOW BIG IS IT?

SOMEONE STEPPED IN A HORNETS NEST BECAUSE HE WANTED TO PULL THE PLUG ON IT.

>> THE MAYOR'’S ARGUMENT IS WE NEED TO GET RID OF THIS POOL.

WE NEED A NEW POOL AND A SMALLER POOL BECAUSE IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE A POOL THIS BIG NAMOR, BUT THERE'’S BEEN PUSHED BACK EVER SINCE HE BROUGHT OUT THIS PLAN, SO WE ARE GOING ON 1.5 YEARS WHERE HE'’S BEEN ARGUING WITH THE CITY COUNCIL AND AT THIS POINT IT'’S LOOKING LIKE THERE WILL NOT BE A NEW POOL OR THE OLD POOL NEXT SUMMER, SO IT WILL HAVE BEEN HIS ENTIRE TERM WITHOUT ANYONE HAVING BEEN ABLE TO USE A POOL.

>> GO AHEAD, MR. CRANSTEN.

>> AGAIN, THE MAYOR WAS A TEACHER FOR MANY YEARS.

HE IS A MAN OF THE PEOPLE.

SO THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE FOR ME IS TOUGH BECAUSE THE PEOPLE ARE SAYING WE WANT THE POOL AND HE'’S TAKING A POSITION THAT IS ANTAGONISTIC TO WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND SO I DO THINK IT WILL HURT HIM POLITICALLY IF HE CHOOSES TO RUN NEXT YEAR.

FOR ME, LET'’S FIX UP THE POOL.

LIKE, IT'’S ONE OF THE BIGGEST POOLS AROUND.

I MEAN, IT DRAWS IN A LOT OF PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TONS OF PICTURES OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE USED THE POOL.

I UNDERSTAND IT MAY NOT MAKE THE MOST ECONOMIC SENSE, BUT IT MAY MAKE MORE COMMUNITY SENSE.

>> RIGHT.

THAT IS MY PERCEPTION TOO.

LET ME SAY AT THE OUTSET I'’VE NEVER BEEN TO THIS POOL.

>> WE ARE TAKING A FIELD TRIP.

>> RIGHT.

AFTER SEEING PICTURES OF THIS POOL, I WAS LIKE, HOLY COW.

THIS IS A MASSIVE POOL.

I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE SEE IT AS A GENUINE ICONIC PRINCETON LANDMARK.

SO I THINK THE MERITED STEP INTO A HORNETS NEST HERE -- THE MAYOR DID STEP INTO A HORNETS NEST HERE AND HE WILL HAVE A HARD TIME GETTING OUT OF IT BECAUSE HIS LIKELY OPPONENT IN THE NEXT MAYORAL RACE IS ALREADY CRITICIZING HIM FOR IT.

>> JUMPING INTO THE POOL, PUN INTENDED.

IS THAT A PREVIEW OF THE RACE NEXT YEAR?

>> IT CERTAINLY COULD BE.

AS I WAS SAYING EARLIER, REPUBLICANS DON'’T ALWAYS MAKE COMMON SENSE DECISIONS.

I DON'’T WANT THEM TO CANNIBALIZE EACH OTHER.

I KNOW MAYOR HOPKINS AND FORMER MAYOR FUNG HAD A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP.

I FEEL LIKE THIS IS NOT THE HILL TO DIE ON.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE I SAID, THE COMMUNITY FEELS STRONGLY ABOUT IT, SO IT'’S A HOT BUTTON ISSUE FOR THEM, BUT IF I WERE THE DEMOCRATS, I WOULD BE JUST EATING SOME POPCORN AND JUST WATCHING THE FIREWORKS, BECAUSE, YEAH -- IT SEEMS LIKE IT'’S AN ISSUE THAT'’S BECOME AN ANCHOR FOR MAYOR HOPKINS AS IT GOES ON.

>> ARE WE GETTING AN ANSWER?

PART OF THE ISSUE IS THE CITY COUNCIL HAS APPROVED SPENDING OR POEM MONEY ON THE POOL -- SPENDING ARPA MONEY ON THE POOL.

NOW THERE'’S THIS ISSUE OF WHETHER IT'’S FOR A NEW POOL OR FIXING UP THE NEW POOL?

>> IT'’S A LOT OF MONEY THAT COULD GO TOWARD OTHER THINGS.

>>>> I DON'’T SEE THERE BEING AN ANSWER ANYTIME SOON AND I THINK IT WILL TURN INTO A CAMPAIGN ISSUE BECAUSE IT'’S LOW HANGING FRUIT TO SAY THIS IS THE GY WHO IS THE GUY WHO WAS KEEPING THE POOL CLOSED.

>> LET'’S GO TO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

>> AN OUTRAGE WITH ELECTRIC RATES LOOKING LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO INCREASE FOR THE FALL AGAIN.

FOR ME, JUST LOOKING AT MY OWN ELECTRIC BILL LAST YEAR AND COMPARING, IT'’S LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> TELL YOUR KIDS TO START READING BY CANDLELIGHT.

>> RIGHT.

STOP USING THEIR NINTENDO SWITCH AND PLAYSTATIONS.

I THINK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO -- YOU KNOW, THEY ARE ON A DEFINED BUDGET.

THEY CANNOT TAKE 33% INCREASES.

THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BEG, BORROW AND STEAL AND CONTINUE TO BE BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL.

I DON'’T KNOW IF THE ELECTRIC COMPANIES TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

>> ANTONIA?

>> I WAS READING A STORY MY COLLEAGUE GET OVER THE FLOODING OVER THE WEEKEND, WHERE HE DESCRIBES HOW THIS DISABLED MAN ALMOST DROWNED IN HIS OWN APARTMENT BECAUSE SO MUCH WATER CAME FLOODING IN SO QUICKLY.

WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT HOW MANY TIMES THAT BUILDING IS FLOODED, YOU KIND OF WONDER HOW WAS THIS EVER ALLOWED TO BE BUILT?

WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?

I KNOW THERE'’S A LAWSUIT NOW SAYING MAYBE THEY ARE TO BLAME WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

I DON'’T THINK PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE TO WORRY THEY WILL DROWN IF THERE'’S A HEAVY RAINSTORM IN THE DAY.

>> YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT COMING IN, HE CANNOT MOVE, JUST THE PANIC.

>> ADAM.

THIS IS YOUR DEBUT.

SHOULD WE HAVE HIM BACK?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

YOU CAN COME BACK.

ADAM HAS BEEN WAITING FOR THE CALL FOR A COUPLE YEARS.

I DO KNOW WHY WE HAVE NOT HAD YOU ON EARLIER.

IT'’S A PLEASURE.

THANK YOU.

OUTRACE -- OUTRAGE OR KUDOS?

>> MY KUDOS WILL GO TO GAVE AMO '’S MEDIA CONSULTANT IN HIS RACE.

SHE WAS ALSO SHELDON WHITEHOUSE'’S CAMPAIGN MANAGER BACK IN THE DAY.

SHE GOT SOME NATIONAL RECOGNITION FOR HER WORK ON AMO '’S CAMPAIGN BECAUSE JOE BIDEN TAPPED HER TO HEAD HIS PULLING OPERATION GOING TO 2024.

>> LET ME STAY WITH YOU.

THERE'’S ALWAYS A RHODE ISLAND ANGLE TO ALMOST EVERY NATIONAL STORY.

A FORMER RHODE ISLAND CONGRESSWOMAN, CLOTTING SCHNEIDER.

THIS IS INDICATIVE OF WHAT'’S GOING ON.

SHE'’S PART OF A COLORADO EFFORT TO KEEP TRUMP OFF THE BALLOT BECAUSE OF WHAT WENT ON AROUND JANUARY 6.

I THINK IT IS SERIOUS BUT SHOULD YOU JUST LET THE VOTERS DO IT?

THIS IS GOING ON AROUND THE COUNTRY.

DO YOU SEE THIS GETTING ANY KIND OF TRACTION?

>> I HIGHLY DOUBT THAT FEDERAL JUDGES, CERTAINLY NOT THE SUPREME COURT, ARE GOING TO RULE TRUMP INELIGIBLE TO BE ON THE BALLOT.

LOOK.

A CASE CAN BE MADE THAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS INELIGIBLE TO BE ON THE BALLOT VIA THE INSURRECTION BECAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTION TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

YOU CAN MAKE THAT CASE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BUT IT'’S A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING TO HAVE UNELECTED JUDGES DECLARE THAT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

SO YOU MENTIONED REPRESENTATIVE SCHNEIDER.

>> COLLEEN SCHNEIDER.

>> AND THE RHODE ISLAND CONNECTION.

THERE'’S ANOTHER CONNECTION IT GOES BACK TO, 1849 WHEN THE SUPREME COURT HEARD A CASE CALLED LUTHER V BORDEN.

IN THAT CASE, THE SUPREME COURT CAME UP WITH WHAT IS NOW CALLED THE POLITICAL QUESTIONS DOCTRINE, WHICH IS THIS IDEA THAT THERE ARE SOME LEGAL QUESTIONS, SOME CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTIONS, THAT ARE SO POLITICALLY EXPLOSIVE THAT IT'’S REALLY NOT THE ROLE OF THE COURTS TO DECIDE HIM.

I THING THIS IS A CLASSIC POLITICAL QUESTION.

THE VOTERS SHOULD DECIDE IN 2024 IF TRUMP IS ELIGIBLE TO RUN OR NOT.

>> I AM GENERALLY A VOTERS DECIDE THINGS.

IN THIS ONE, I FEEL LIKE IT'’S JUST MORE FUEL TO TRUMP'’S FIRE OF, LIKE, SEE?

THEY ARE ALL OUT TO GET ME.

AND IT'’S UNLIKELY THAT HE WILL BE BARRED FROM THE BALLOT IF HE GETS THAT REQUIRED SIGNATURES, SO WHAT IS THE POINT?

>> THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

DON, GREAT TO SEE YOU, ADAM, WELCOME, AND, ANTONIA, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

IF YOU DON'’T CATCH US FRIDAY OR SUNDAY, ALL OUR SHOWS ARE ARCHIVED.

WE ARE ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA, FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR FAVORITE PODCASTS.

TAKE US ALONG IF YOU DON'’T CATCH US SUNDAY.

WE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

WE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] ♪ >> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.