JIM: THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, EARLY INTERVENTION SERVICES FORCED TO WAIT MONTHS FOR THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND TO RESPOND.

AND THE STATE IS WAY BEHIND ITS GOAL OF HAVING 25% OF THE FLEET ALL ELECTRIC OR PLUG-IN HYBRID VEHICLES.

WHAT IT IS DOING TO TRY TO CATCH UP.

0 A LIVELY EXPERIMENT GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HAYES AND WHITE JUNIOR.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS I LIKELY EXPERIMENT PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM H.: JOINING US ON THE PANEL, BOSTON GLOBE COLUMNIST DAN MCCOWAN, ATTORNEY AND FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE RHODE ISLAND DEMOCRATIC PARTY, BILL LYNCH, PLUS BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER AND RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY CONTRIBUTOR, STEPH RISHAAD OH.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO LIVELY, I'’M JIM HUMMEL.

WE APPRECIATE YOU SPINNING PART OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.

WE USUALLY DON'’T DO THEMED SHOWS ON LIVELY BUT THIS WEEK'’S TOPICS HAVE A COMMON THREAD, GOVERNMENT FALLING DOWN ON THE JOB AND LEAVING THE PEOPLE IT IS SUPPOSED TO HELP UNDERSERVED AND FRUSTRATED.

WE START WITH A STORY BY STEPH MASATO AS SHE GIVES THE ROAD -- RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY ON THE STATE'’S FAILURE TO PROVIDE TIMELY SERVICES FOR HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN.

STEPH LOOKED TELL US MORE ABOUT IT IN A MOMENT.

FIRST, JOHN KELLY, PRESIDENT OF MEETING STREETS SCHOOL TALKS ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF GETTING TO CHILDREN EARLY.

JOHN: AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE ISSUE IS DOWN TO NOT ENOUGH PROVIDERS.

I DON'’T MEAN AGENCIES, I MEAN PICO -- PEOPLE WORKING FOR US.

WE ARE SHORT STAFFED.

EVERYBODY IS SHORTSTAFFED AND PEOPLE DON'’T WANT TO HEAR IT BUT IT COMES DOWN TO MONEY.

EARLY CHILDHOOD AND PARTICULARLY EARLY INTERVENTION IS NOT VALUE THE WAY IT SHOULD BE VALUED.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE BIGGEST INVESTMENT YOU'’RE PUTTING INTO KIDS AND THE ECONOMY AND TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THERE IS A RE-SHOULD STUDY A LONG TIME AGO THAT SET A DOLLAR PUT IN WAS $12 SAVINGS DOWN THE ROAD.

AND YOUR TAX REVENUES GO UP BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE MAKING MORE MONEY, PRISON COSTS DOWN BECAUSE NOT AS MANY PEOPLE WERE GOING TO PRISON, CHILD WELFARE COSTS ARE GOING DOWN, SPECIAL ED COSTS IN SCHOOLS GOING DOWN.

>> YOU ARE TYING A CHILD GETTING EARLY INTERVENTION WHEN THERE ANY INFANT OR TODDLER TO FEWER PEOPLE GOING TO PRISON.

JOHN: YEP.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, OVER 40% OF THE CHILDREN WHO COME TO EARLY INTERVENTION DON'’T NEED SUPPLEMENTAL SERVICES, THEY DON'’T QUALIFY FOR THEM AFTER THREE.

THAT'’S AN INCREDIBLE SAVINGS TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT AND ALSO GETTING KIDS READY TO ENTER SCHOOL WHERE THEY SHOULD BE, WITHOUT THE INTERVENTION, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?

JIM H.: IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE ENTIRE PIECE THAT STEPH PRODUCED, YOU CAN GO TO OUR WEBSITE, RIPBS.ORG/WEEKLY I'’M ALWAYS CURIOUS FROM THE REPORTER PERSPECTIVE, WAS THIS WELL-KNOWN AND IT BUNDLED -- BUBBLED UP TO YOU?

HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT IT?

STEPH: IT WAS A BIG PROBLEM DURING THE PANDEMIC AND GOT A LOT OF NEWS COVERAGE IN 2021.

THERE WAS NO WAIT LIST FOR EARLY INTERVENTION PRIOR TO 2021 ALL THE CHILDREN I'’M TOLD WERE GETTING IN WITHIN THE TIMEFRAME REQUIRED BY LAW AND THERE WAS A BIG CRISIS THAT DID NOT GET A LOT OF NEWS COVERAGE AT THE TIME AND STATE LAWMAKERS DID PASS SOME INCREASED MEDICAID RATES IN 2022, AND THEN WE HAD NOT HEARD ABOUT IT SINCE AND I WANTED TO KNOW WHETHER THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED AND I WAS HEARING FROM PARENTS WHO WERE NOT GETTING INTO EARLY INTERVENTION.

IN FACT, SOME OF THEM WERE TRYING TO GET INTO SPECIAL ED PRESCHOOL AND THEY BASH THEIR CHILD NEVER HAD EARLY INTERVENTION WHICH ENDS AT H3 BECAUSE THEY NEVER GOT OFF OF THE WAITLIST.

THAT PROMPTED ME TO BRING UP THE ISSUE AGAIN AND LOOK INTO WHETHER THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED AND UNFORTUNATELY THERE IS AN INCREDIBLY LONG WEIGHTLESS, NEARLY 900 CHILDREN AS OF EARLIER THIS MONTH WAITING FOR THESE SERVICES.

JIM: AND YOU KNOW AS A YOUNG PARROT THE CLOCK TAKES AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE KID IS THREE YEARS OLD AND HE AGES OUT.

>> HE'’S A YOUNG CHILD, DOESN'’T MEAN HE'’S A YOUNG CANDIDATE.

[LAUGHTER] >> I SAY EVERYDAY I LOOK AT MY SIDE AND SAY WHY CAN'’T YOU READ YET.

I'’M WORRIED ABOUT IT TO SOME DEGREE.

JIM: YOU GOT HIM ON THE FAST TRACK AT THE MCCOWAN HOUSEHOLD.

DAN: THESE THINGS DO FLY VERY FAST AND YOU NEED THOSE SERVICES BEFORE YOU WERE TREE YEARS OLD.

WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU GET INTO GRADE SCHOOL, YOU'’VE GOTTA BE ABLE TO READ BY THE THIRD GRADE, TO BE ABLE TO DO MATH BY THE FIFTH GRADE.

AS THE GUY FOR MEETING STREETS SAYS AND EVERYBODY POINTS OUT, IF YOU ARE NOT CATCHING KIDS, THESE MOST BURNABLE -- MOST VULNERABLE KIDS AT A VERY EARLY AGE, WE WOULD HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS THAT WE HAD WITH ALL OF OUR KIDS AND PARTICULARLY OUR URBAN SCHOOL SYSTEMS THROUGH THE 12TH GRADE.

BILL: IT'’S THE OLD STORY THAT SUNSHINE IS THE BEST DISINFECTANT.

IT GETS THE STORY OUT THERE MORE GENERALLY TO THE PUBLIC AS OPPOSED TO PARENTS THAT HAVE THE ISSUE WITHIN THEIR HOUSEHOLD.

I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT IS A MALL -- ALL A MATTER OF PRIORITIES.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE SAW IN YOUR ENTIRE PIECE WAS THAT, AS A CONSEQUENCE OF SOME OF THIS INVOLVEMENT WITH PEOPLE, THE STATE THROUGH SPEAKER SEQUATCHIE AND THE SENATE HELP MADE ADDITIONAL FUNDS AVAILABLE, INCREASE SOME MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENTS, SO IT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

EVEN MEETING STREET SAID THAT.

THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MORE OBVIOUSLY BUT AT LEAST IT LETS PEOPLE KNOW THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS TO BE DEALT WITH.

WE MADE SOME PROGRESS, THERE IS MORE ROOM TO COPE.

IT TOO MANY YEARS AGO THAT THERE WAS A DEBATE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS PUSHING TO ALL-DAY KINDERGARTEN.

THAT GOT RESISTANCE.

SOMETIMES IT IS A PROCESS TO GET THAT PROGRESS WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH KIDS WHO GROW UP FAST.

STEPH: ONE OF THE ADVOCATES I INTERVIEWED SAID IT IS LIKE STARTING A BASKETBALL GAME AND YOU ARE ALREADY 20 POINTS BEHIND.

YOU GO TO KINDERGARTEN AND YOU HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY HELP FOR WHATEVER DEVELOPMENTAL DELAY OR DISABILITY YOU MAY HAVE, IT GETS HARDER AND HADER TO CATCH UP TO YOUR PEERS LATER ON IN YOUR SCHOOLING.

JIM: YOU WILL SEE IN THE FULL PIECE IF YOU WATCH IT ON OUR WEBSITE THAT YOU TALKED TO YOUNG MOTHER AND HER SON AND THERE ARE ISSUES FOR HER BECAUSE SHE IS TRYING TO JUGGLE WORK AND GETTING IT.

AND THAT TUGS ON YOUR HEARTSTRINGS AND IT IS ALWAYS GOOD, IT IS A TV PUTTING THE FACE ON THE STORY.

IS IT LACK OF STAFF, MORE PEOPLE ASKING FOR SERVICES?

YOU SAID BEFORE THE PANDEMIC THEY WERE CAUGHT UP AND NOW THE THERE ARE 800-5800 PEOPLE -- 800 5000 -- STEPH: THEY SAY WE DON'’T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF AND PROBABLY DIDN'’T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF BEFORE THE PANDEMIC BUT THEY WERE MANAGING.

THEY PROBABLY NEEDED MORE THAN BUT THERE WAS THIS HUGE DROP IN STAFFING LEVELS AND EARLY INTERVENTION AND WE HAVE A CHART IF YOU GO TO THE STORY ON GLOBE.COM/ROADISLAND.

IT HAS BEEN GOING UP SLOWLY BUT IT IS STILL NOT UP TO WHERE IT WAS PRE-PANDEMIC AND THERE IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT FACTORS FOR THAT.

OBVIOUSLY PAY.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SPEECH THERAPISTS, PHYSICAL THERAPISTS, THERE'’S A HUGE DEMAND FOR THOSE TYPES OF CLINICIANS IN HOSPITALS, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

IT IS NOT JUST EARLY INTERVENTION.

THEY ARE BEING OFFERED MORE MONEY TO WORK ELSEWHERE THAN THEY WOULD BE PAID IN EARLY INTERVENTIONS.

THE PROVIDERS LIKE MEETING STREET ARE SAYING WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PAY THEM MORE AND PAY THEM OR TO RETAIN THEM.

GIVE THEM RACES EVERY YEAR, NOT JUST A TINY RAISE BUT ATTENTION BONUSES, THINGS TO KEEP THESE PEOPLE HERE BECAUSE WE ARE COMPETING WITH EVERY OTHER SETTING THAT NEEDS A SPEECH THERAPIST, THAT NEEDS A PHYSICAL THERAPIST AND OCCUPATIONAL THERAPIST.

DAN: THIS IS THE REALITY OF WHERE WE ARE IN THE WORLD, NOBODY LIKES TO HEAR THAT WE NEED TO SPEND MORE MONEY BUT CLEARLY IF WE WANT TO HAVE THESE EARLY INTERVENTIONISTS, WE NEED TO PAY THEM MORE MONEY.

IT'’S THE ONLY SOLUTION BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE OTHER OPTIONS.

IT IS A GOOD MARKET FOR THEM RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOTS OF PLACES THAT THEY CAN GO AND JUMP FROM I THINK YOU REPORTED THIS FROM FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT 20,000 TO 30,000 MORE DOLLARS IF YOU WORK AT A HOSPITAL OR THINGS LIKE THAT.

OF COURSE YOU WILL DO THAT.

IN OUR CAREERS, WE MAKE MOVES ALL THE TIME TO MAKE THAT MUCH MORE MONEY.

IT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE.

YOU'’VE GOTTA FIND WAYS TO PAY THEM MORE.

BILL: TO DANCE POINT, I THINK IT IS HELPFUL YOU POINTED ON YOUR PIECE THAT THIS IS NOT JUST A TEMPORARY EXPENDITURE OF ADDITIONAL FUNDS.

THERE IS EMPIRICAL DATA THAT SHOWS, OVER TIME, MONEY SPENT ON EARLY INTERVENTION, PRESCHOOL SERVICES, ALL-DAY KINDERGARTEN, IT PAYS OFF IN THE LON RUN BECAUSE IT REDUCES THE COSTS YOU WILL OTHERWISE DEAL WITH DOWN THE ROAD, WHETHER IT IS JUVENILE ISSUES, POPULATION AT THE ACI, DIFFERENT THINGS MENTIONED IN YOUR PIECE.

THERE IS A BENEFIT TO INVESTING THE MONEY AND I THINK THAT IS WHY THE SPEAKER AND OTHERS ARE SO INGRAINED IN TRYING TO GET THAT DONE.

JIM: I INTERVIEW JOHN KELLY FOUR PIECE I DID.

I PROFILED MEETING STREET AND HE BEATS THAT DRUM AND I THINK IT IS A GOOD ONE TO SAY WHAT WE INVEST NOW FOR THE LONG RUN WILL SAVE US MONEY.

WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO BALANCE THE BUDGET AT A PLACE LIKE MEETING STREET OR OTHER PLACES, THOSE DIVIDENDS DON'’T PAY OFF UNTIL FIVE TO 10 YEARS DOWN THE LINE.

HE IS RAISING THOSE SALARIES AND THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY.

HIS BUDGET WILL BE THAT MUCH MORE.

ISN'’T THAT THE CHALLENGE, IF YOU PAY MORE PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO RAISE MORE MONEY TO BALANCE THE BUDGET?

STEPH: EXACTLY.

HIS ARGUMENT IS THIS PROGRAM SHOULD BE FULLY FUNDED.

MEETING STREET HAS A BIG TELETHON EVERY YEAR, THEY RAISE $1 MILLION, HE THINKS THEY SHOULD NOT BE BACKFILLING THE MONEY THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AREN'’T REIMBURSING FOR THIS PROGRAM BECAUSE IT IS A MANDATE, A FEDERAL MANDATE, EVERYONE AGREES IT IS IMPORTANT, WHY IS IT NOT BEING FULLY FUNDED?

THE STATE UNDER GOVERNOR MCKEE AND GOVERNOR RAIMONDO GAVE COVID REALLY FUNDS TO THE EARLY INTERVENTION PROVIDERS WHICH THEY SAY WAS HELPFUL BUT THAT IS A ONE TIME THING.

THE FINAL PAYMENT IS MADE LATER THIS YEAR SO THEY SAY THEY REALLY NEED A SUSTAINED MAY BE COST-OF-LIVING INCREASE, CONTINUING, TO CONTINUE TO PAY MORE EACH YEAR.

JIM: ONE OF THE OTHER STORIES WE SAW, CAFFE, A GREAT REPORTER ON A LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE, THAT SAID THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES IS RUNNING A $16.9 MILLION SURPLUS BUT WAIT TIMES ARE ALMOST AN HOUR FOR PEOPLE TO GET KEY SOCIAL SERVICES.

IT GOES BACK TO THE UNEMPLOYMENT -- THE EMPLOYMENT, WE CAN MATCH THE JOBS WITH VACANCIES, AND IT IS A RARE THING IN GOVERNMENT TO HAVE A SURPLUS BUT YOU WOULD THINK IT IS SO MADDENING FOR THE PEOPLE READING THIS STORY THAT I CAN'’T WE GET THESE POSITIONS FILLED?

IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT.

DAN: I THINK YOU SEE REPRESENTATIVE SERPA THAT WANTS TO POTENTIALLY END THE CIVIL SERVICE EXAM TO POTENTIALLY HAVE MORE PEOPLE IN THE PIPELINE BUT I THINK IT DOES GO BACK -- IT IS SOMEWHAT SIMILAR IN SOME WAYS, PEOPLE ARE FINDING BETTER JOBS ELSEWHERE.

THEY ARE ABLE TO GET PAID MORE MONEY DOING -- WHETHER IT IS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR ELSEWHERE AND SO YOU HAVE TO MAKE THESE -- NOBODY LIKES TO HEAR THAT GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO SPEND MORE MONEY BUT IN SOME CASES THAT IS TRUE HERE.

YOU HAVE THIS BIG SURPLUS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF VACANCIES.

IT IS NOT LIKE EVERYBODY IS JUST PUTTING MONEY UNDER THEIR COUCH BECAUSE THEY CAN PAY PEOPLE -- CAN FIND ENOUGH PEOPLE TO WORK.

THAT IS THE REAL CHALLENGE HERE.

THIS WORKFORCE ISSUE THAT IS KIND OF POST-COVID IN SO MANY DIFFERENT SECTORS, IT IS VERY REAL.

IT GOES TO YOU ARE MAKING THE DECISION BETWEEN GOING TO WORK AND PAYING FOR CHILD CARE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE ALL THESE DECISIONS MADE AND WHEN THERE IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY, IT IS NOT THAT JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE CIVIL SERVICE WIPING THAT OUT?

IS THAT A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO GO DOWN?

BILL: THE PROBLEM IS IT WAS PUT THERE TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE A CERTAIN STATUS YOU WANTED PEOPLE TO BE IN IN TERMS OF QUALIFICATIONS.

I THINK THAT IT CAN BE ADJUSTED.

LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, IT HAS BEEN A PLACE FOR LONG TIME AND IF YOU ASK SOMEBODY WHY DO THEY HAVE THAT, WE JUST HAVE.

IT'’S NOT REALLY A GOOD ANSWER.

I KNOW THEY'’RE LOOKING CLOSELY AT THAT BUT THE OTHER ISSUE IS DAN IS RIGHT AND WE SAW LITTLE ABOUT PIECES THAT THE COMPETITION HAS CHANGED.

I'’M NOT SURE IT IS 100% COVID WITH THINGS HAVE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.

I DO A LOT OF WORK AT THE FAMILY COURT AND IT IS NOT JUST EARLY INTERVENTION, YOU'’VE GOT YOUNG CHILDREN, ADOLESCENTS, SEVEN TO EIGHT-YEAR-OLD KIDS IN DESPERATE NEED OF THERAPISTS AND GOOD LUCK.

YOU CAN WAIT SIX MONTHS TO TRY TO GET A CHILD IN TO SEE A THERAPIST.

WHO'’S GOT CRITICAL NEEDS BY THE WAY, NOT JUST FOR HEY HOW YOU DOING NEEDS.

SO CHILD CARE, YOU'’VE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING I'’M LEAVING MY JOB BECAUSE I THE TIME I PAY CHILDCARE, IF I CAN FIND CHILDCARE BY THE WAY, I'’M NOT MAKING ANY MONEY.

WHAT IS THE SENSE?

I MIGHT AS WELL STAY HOME.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES I THINK THAT SORT OF RESIDUAL DAMAGE DONE AND OVERLAP WITH THE EARLY INTERVENTION AND OTHER THINGS THAT IT IS NOT AN EASY THING TO SELL.

STEPH: AND GUEST WHO IS MOST LIGHTLY TO LEAVE THE WORKFORCE BECAUSE OF THE COST OF CHILDCARE .

WOMEN.

AND GUESS WHO IS THE PREDOMINATE GENDER IN EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, WOMEN.

IT'’S HARD TO FIND PEOPLE IF THEY ARE NOT IN THE WORKFORCE.

JIM: AND THE OTHER THING IS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE THERAPISTS DURING COVID, YOU CANNOT GO OVER STATE LINES.

IF YOU ARE A THERAPIST IN PROVIDENCE AND YOU HAD SOMEBODY IN SEEKONK, THEY RELAXED THAT DURING THE PANDEMIC AND THEN TIGHTENED IT UP.

THEY MAY BE RECONSIDERING THAT AGAIN TO COM IN LINE WITH LET'’S MAKE IT EASIER TO HOOK UP -- AND I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT TO BE IN-PERSON BUT IF THAT IS ALL YOU CAN GET, LET'’S ADAPT A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT?

>> I THINK THEY ARE FINDING THAT THERE WERE THINGS, FEW, BUT THERE WERE POSITIVE THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THE PANDEMIC.

NONE OF THEM IS THIS ONLINE OR REMOTE ACCESS, TELEHEALTH, TO DOCTORS.

PEOPLE SO THAT WOULD END AS SOON AS COVID GETS ROLLED BACK AND IT REALLY HAS AND IT HAS BEEN REDUCED.

THERE IS A CONSTANT BATTLE BETWEEN HEALTH INSURERS, COMPANIES, AND PEOPLE THAT ARE PROVIDERS IN TERMS OF HOW THAT SHOULD BE FUNDED BUT THERE IS NO QUESTION IT HAS HELPED PEOPLE WITH ACCESS TO SERVICES THEY WOULD NOT OTHERWISE HAVE.

A LOT OF IT IS DONE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL BECAUSE WE GET USED IN RHODE ISLAND THAT YOU CAN JUST ABOUT DRIVE ANYWHERE BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT AFFECT PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

YOU HAVE URBAN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE DON'’T HAVE ACCESS TO A DOCTOR OR THERAPIST UNLESS IT IS REMOTE BY TELEHEALTH.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME POSITIVES, FEW OBVIOUSLY, BUT IT HAS GOTTEN BETTER AND IT IS HERE TO STAY.

THERE IS NOBODY I HEAR NOW SAYING LET'’S GO BACK TO THE WAY WE WERE PRE-COVID AND GET RID OF TELEHEALTH.

I DON'’T THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN.

DAN: I WAS MODERATING A PANEL ON MENTAL HEALTH ACCESS A WEEK OR TWO AGO AND THE CARE IN RHODE ISLAND AND YOU TALK TO SOME OF THE SPECIALISTS THAT FOCUS ON THE STUFF AND THEY TALK ABOUT THE TELEHEALTH IS A HUGE, MAJOR ISSUE.

THE OTHER PART IS FINDING WAYS TO MAKE SURE IF YOU DO NEED TO GET PARTICULARLY YOUNG PEOPLE TO A -- AN APPOINTMENT, IF YOU NEED TO DO THAT, WE DON'’T DO A VERY GOOD JOB OF AN PROVIDENCE YOU CAN FIND A PROVIDER, IT IS HARDER IN FOSTER.

JIM: THEN YOU HAVE TO TAKE TIME OUT OF WORK AND ALL OF THAT.

DAN: EXACTLY.

THIS IS WHY, I THINK UNFORTUNATELY A LOT OF MOTHERS FALL OUT OF THE WORKFORCE BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER TO KIND OF STAY HOME WITH THEIR KID THAN IT IS TO GET THEM THE SUPPORT THEY NEED OR INTO CHILDCARE.

JIM: THE OTHER STORY ABOUT GOVERNMENT, THE TRIFECTA OF NOT LIVING UP TO MAYBE WEAR SHOULD BE AS I DID A STORY FOR THE HUMBLE REPORTER IN SUNDAY'’S PROVIDENCE JOURNAL ABOUT THE STATE FLEET TRYING TO MOVE TOWARDS ZERO EMISSIONS, ELECTRIC BOAT -- PLUGGING CARS, GOVERNOR RAIMONDO SIGNED AN ORDER BACK IN 2015 THAT SAID WE SHOULD BE AT WHEN HE 5% BY 25.

THEY ARE ONLY 940 -- 9.4% SO WE HAVE ALWAYS TO GO.

GOVERNOR MCKEE MOVED THAT BACK A LITTLE BIT TO 2030 AND I THINK THE LARGER ISSUE HERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY I KINDA WANT TO GO TO ELECTRIC CARS, COST, SUPPLY, AND PROBABLY INFRASTRUCTURE.

WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO CHARGE THESE?

BILL: RIGHT.

I THINK THAT IS ALL PART OF THAT.

PEOPLE ARE NOT SOLD ON IT UNTIL THEY SEE IT AS THE CHICKEN AND THE BIG ISSUE I GUESS.

UNTIL THEY SEE THE COSTS COME DOWN, THE AVAILABILITY OF CHARGING HOME CHARGES AND ALL THE ADDRESS, PEOPLE ARE HESITANT TO JUMP IN FEET FIRST.

I THINK WE'’RE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.

IT MAY BE SLOWER THAN SOME PEOPLE WANT, INCLUDING SOME IN MY PARTY THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE US MOVE MORE AGGRESSIVELY.

I THINK THE PROCESS IS GETTING THERE BUT I THINK PEOPLE GENERALLY SPEAKING ARE NOT COMPLETELY ON BOARD WITH IT FOR THOSE REASONS I THINK.

DAN: I THINK IT ALSO SPEAKS TO SOME OF THESE AMBITIOUS GOALS WHICH COMPLETE MAKE SENSE, IT IS NOT LIKE RHODE ISLAND IS UNIQUE WHEN IT COMES TO CARBON GOALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT THERE ARE GOALS TO SET AND THEN ONES THAT ARE REALISTIC AND I THINK RHODE ISLAND IS RUNNING INTO THIS CHALLENGE RIGHT NOW -- JIM: IN THE ROLANDO ADMINISTRATION, SHE SAID SHE KNEW SHE WOULD NOT BE AROUND IN 10 YEARS AS THE GOVERNMENT WILL LIKELY BE ACTIVE AFTER 2030.

EVEN IF HE GETS REELECTED AGAIN BUT THEY DIDN'’T DO ANYTHING THE FIRST THREE YEARS SO THE EARLY INTERVENTION, THAT THE TWO AND A WHOLE BECAUSE YOU CANNOT MAKE UP THAT GROUND.

STEPH: I LOVED YOUR STORY, JIM.

WHAT I THOUGHT ABOUT IT IS WE CONSTANTLY COVER THESE BIG ANNOUNCEMENTS, THERE IS HOOPLA, WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS GREAT THING BY THE YEAR 2030, WHATEVER THE YEAR IS, AFTER THE PERSON THAT MAKES THE PROMISE WILL NOT BE IN OFFICE ANYMORE.

[LAUGHTER] STEPH: I'’M GLAD YOU WENT BACK AND CHECKED IN ON HOW THE GOAL WAS DOING AND YOU FOUND THAT WHOLE SITUATION WHERE THE GOVERNOR'’S ADVANCE WAS TRADED IN FOR WHAT WAS IT?

A GAS GUZZLER.

JIM: $76,000.

STEPH: I AM AN APARTMENT DWELLER SO I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE AN ELECTRIC CAR, BUT THERE IS NO CHARGER.

I GUESS IF I COULD CONVINCE MY LANDLORD TO GET A CHARGER BUT THEN I WILL MOVE TO THE NEXT APARTMENT.

IT IS NOT A RELIABLE -- WE DON'’T HAVE RELIABLE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO FEEL LIKE THEY CAN BUY ELECTRIC CARS.

AT THE STATE CAN CERTAINLY GET CHARGERS AND SET THEM UP AND HAVE STATE EMPLOYEES WHO DRIVE VEHICLES.

JIM: THEY'’VE GOT THEM IN THE BASEMENT.

STEPH: THEY HAVE RELIABLE -- THE STAKE AND HAVE RELIABLE CHARGING.

JIM: I TOLD THE STORY, MY SON, WE GAVE HIM MY WIFE'’S 2013 CAMERA WHEN HE STARTED GRAD SCHOOL FOUR YEARS AGO.

HE NEEDED A RELIABLE -- RELIABLE TRANSPORTATION.

HE SAID TO ME A COUPLE YEARS AGO, TOYOTA WILL LAST FOREVER SO HE COULD HAVE THIS CAR FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS AND HE SAID I WONDER IF THIS WILL BE THE LAST GASOLINE POWERED VEHICLE I WILL BUY.

HE IS THINKING ABOUT THAT ALREADY.

HAVE YOU THOUGHT IT ALL ABOUT ELECTRIC OR HYBRID?

BILL: YEAH, BECAUSE I'’M REMINDED AT HOME.

[LAUGHTER] I BOUGHT A CAR NOT TOO LONG AGO AND IT'’S NOT ELECTRIC.

JIM: ARE YOU HEARING IT EVERY DAY?

BILL: FROM MY GRANDSON AND DAUGHTER I THOUGHT I WOULD GET CRUCIFIED, LIKE FLAT AND THE TIRES.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: YOU GO IN YOUR OWN DRIVEWAY IN THEIR SLASHED.

[LAUGHTER] BILL: I'’M VERY AWARE OF IT.

I THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF IT BUT THERE'’S RESIDUAL RESOLUTE -- RETICENCE TO MOVING FORWARD WITH SOME PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY DON'’T SEE IT QUITE WIDELY ACCEPTED AND WIDELY AVAILABLE YET.

I THINK -- AND BY THE WAY, THERE IS A HUMAN PART OF IT THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD GAS VEHICLES, THERE ARE GAS STATIONS EVERYWHERE, YOU CAN PULL IT AND FIVE MINUTES YOUR BACK ON THE ROAD.

I DON'’T THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING PEOPLE ARE SOLD ON THAT AS BEING THE CASE WITH ELECTRIC CHARTERS.

STEPH: DO YOU THINK THE STATE SHOULD BE TAKING A HEAVIER HAND IN MANDATING CHARTERS FOR BUSINESSES OR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, OR DO YOU THINK THAT IS CAUSING -- CROSSING A LINE?

BILL: I THINK THAT IS THE BALANCING TEST TO SEE WITH THE STATE AND BUSINESSES.

I THINK THE STATE TYPICALLY WOULD TO SEE MORE DIRECTION FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAUSE IT IS A FEDERAL ISSUE AND OF COURSE THERE IS NOTHING COMING OUT OF THE CONGRESS, RIGHT NOW WITH HOW SEPARATE AND APART THE TWO PARTIES ARE.

I THINK THERE IS A LOGJAM CREATED BY THAT.

I THINK THAT PROBABLY -- DAN: IT'’S ALSO ABOUT PRESSURE.

I ALWAYS WATCH THIS, PARTICULARLY ON ISSUES LIKE THIS AND ENVIRONMENT ISSUES, THE PRESSURE PUT ON PLACES LIKE RHODE ISLAND FROM THE BIG STATES, YOU'’VE GOTTA FOLLOW SUIT.

WHEN CALIFORNIA DECIDES TO TAKE ACTION OR QUITE FRIENDLY OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE NORTH IN MASSACHUSETTS BUT CALIFORNIA IS ALWAYS A BIG ONE, IT PUTS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON US TO GET IT DONE.

JIM: THOSE WERE MONDO GOALS WERE BASED ON CALIFORNIA.

LET'’S DO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS AND ONE MORE THING TO GET TO.

BILL, WHAT YOU HAVE?

BILL: IT'’S GOTTA BE DONALD TRUMP AND I TRY TO DO ANYTHING ELSE EXCEPT HIM BECAUSE HE COULD ALWAYS BE OUTRAGED WITH DONALD TRUMP BUT WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT GENERAL MILLEY WHO IS A LIFETIME MILITARY GUY, I CANNOT TELL YOU WHAT BODY GENERAL MILLEY IS FROM IF EVEN HAS A POLITICAL PRESENCE BUT THE GUYS WOUNDED IN ACTION, SERVICES WHOLE LIFE IN THE MILITARY SERVING THE COUNTRY, MAKING TWO INNOCUOUS PHONE CALLS TO CHINA, BOTH OF WHICH APPROVED BY OUR NATIONAL SECURITY PEOPLE, AND THE PRESIDENT IS UNHAPPY WITH HIM FORGOT ONLY KNOWS WHY AND PUBLICLY DONALD TRUMP GOES OUT AND SAYS HE COMMITTED TREASON AND HE SHOULD BE EXECUTED.

JIM: THAT'’S RICH COMING FROM TRUMP, HUH?

BILL: I THICKET SHOWS HIS COMPLETE IGNORANCE OF THE ISSUE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO BELIEVE AND BUY INTO WHATEVER HE SAYS.

IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, TO CALL FOR SOMEONE TO BE EXECUTED IS JUST -- IT IS UNFORGIVABLE.

I DON'’T UNDERSTAND AND I'’M SURE GENERAL MILLEY IS A MILITARY GUY BUT HE HAS A FAMILY AND I JUST DON'’T GET IT AND I DON'’T KNOW HOW ANYBODY WHO LEADS THE PARTY COULD FIND THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR ACCEPTABLE.

JIM: DAN?

DAN: MY OUTRAGE IS THE DEBATE WHICH SHOULD NOT BE A DEBATE ALL OVER THE FUTURE OF MOUNT PLEASANT HIGH SCHOOL IN PROVIDENCE.

THERE'’S A CHANCE TO BUILD A BRAND-NEW SCHOOL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN PROVIDENCE IN MORE THAN 15 TO 20 YEARS GOING BACK TO CICILLINE WHEN HE WAS MAYOR AND YOU ARE GETTING OPPOSITION FROM PRESERVATIONISTS WHO WOULD NEVER SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO A SCHOOL LIKE MOUNT PLEASANT, GETTING OPPOSITION FROM STATE LAWMAKERS WHO QUITE FRANKLY JUST WANT TO FIGHT OVER WHAT THE FUTURE OF PUBLIC EDUCATION LOOKS LIKE BUT YOU LOOK AT THE KIDS IN THAT SCHOOL, 0% PROFICIENCY IN MATH.

0%.

NOT TO THE VALEDICTORIAN IS PROFICIENT IN MATH AT THAT SCHOOL.

THE BUILDING IS FALLING APART.

I LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THERE ARE LITERALLY BREAKS THAT FALL DOWN.

THEY FENCED OFF THE SCHOOL TO TRY TO GET IT -- TO MAKE IT SAVOR AND YOU HAVE THIS CHANCE TO BUILD A SCHOOL, IT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED YESTERDAY AND HOPEFULLY TO THE CREDIT OF GOVERNOR MCKEE, HE IS KINDA PUSHING FOR THIS SO HOPEFULLY IT WILL HAPPEN AND YOU WON'’T SEE SO MUCH OBSTRUCTION GOING FORWARD.

JIM: STEPHANIE?

STEPH: I THINK THE RETICENT OF STATE OFFICIALS TO SPEAK TO REPORTERS ABOUT BIG ISSUES THAT THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR LIKE EARLY INTERVENTION PROGRAM -- JIM: COULDN'’T GET SOMEBODY ON CAMERA.

STEPH: NOPE.

OR EVEN OFF-CAMERA.

I THINK IT IS A DISSERVICE TO THE PUBLIC WHEN YOU RUN A PROGRAM OR ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMETHING, ESPECIALLY YOUNG CHILDREN, AND YOU WON'’T TALK ABOUT IT AND YOU ARE HIDING BEHIND A SPOKESPERSON.

THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

JIM: SOME OF THE SPOKES PEOPLE ARE MAKING NORTH OF SIX FIGURES.

ANY SPOKESPERSON OR COMING OCCASION PERSON, COMMUNIQUE.

WE HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

DAN, YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE PAYMENT LOU OF TAXES, MAYOR SMILEY WHO I INTERVIEWED FOR A WEEKLY PIECE MONTHS AGO TALKED ABOUT HE HAS BEEN WORKING ON GETTING THE FOUR COLLEGES ON BOARD, LIFESPAN NOT SO MUCH.

NOW THIS IS RUNNING INTO A LITTLE RESISTANCE IN CITY HALL.

THIS IS TIMELY SO BRING US UP TO SPEED, AND THIS IS THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO THE BUDGET, MORE THAN WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING.

DAN: YEAH.

AS STEPH HAS REPORTED, THIS IS MORE THAN $200 BILLION OVER THE COURSE OF 20 YEARS FROM THESE FOUR COLLEGES.

THERE IS A SEPARATE DEAL WITH BROWN AND WE ARE TALKING A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MONEY AND I THINK WE ALL KIND OF THOUGHT INITIALLY THIS WOULD BE SAIL THROUGH.

YOU HAD THE MAYOR ON BOARD WITH THE CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT, USUALLY THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT ARE ON THE SAME PAGE.

JIM: AND THEY HAVE THE MONEY EARMARKED FOR WHERE THEY WANTED IT.

AS SOON AS THIS GO THROUGH, THE CHECKS FLY.

STEPH: THEY HAVE A HIRING FREEZE WAITING FOR THIS MONEY.

DAN: THAT'’S RIGHT.

AND NOW YOU'’RE GETTING SOME RESISTANCE.

THE PROVIDENCE CITY COUNCIL IS EXTREMELY PROGRESSIVE SO YOU ARE GET PUSHBACK ABOUT WHAT THESE COLLEGES SHOULD PAY.

THE CHALLENGE IS THERE IS ALWAYS THE CHANCE THE COLLEGES WALK AWAY AND THUMB THEIR NOSE.

THEY DON'’T HAVE TO DO THIS.

IT IS PUBLIC PRESSURE.

DAN: STEPH: I WAS AT NATIONAL I STEPH: I WAS AT THE PUBLIC -- STEPH: I WAS AT THE PUBLIC HEARING SAYING THEY'’RE NOT DOING ENOUGH AND THEY SHOULD BE DOING MORE AND A LOT OF THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD AGREE WITH THAT POINT SO THERE IS NO GUARANTEE IT HAS THE VOTES TO PASS.

I THINK THE COUNCIL PRESIDENT IS CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC IT WILL PASS, POTENTIALLY AS SOON AS NEXT WEEK, BUT BY THE TIME THIS PROGRAM AIRS, WE WILL KNOW IF IT CAME OUT OF THE COUNCIL FINANCE COMMITTEE, WHICH IS ALSO NOT DARREN T TO PASS THE DEAL.

JIM: THERE WAS THE INITIAL ONE AND A SEPARATE THING WITH BROWN.

COULD IT BE BIFURCATED OR DO YOU THINK THEY WILL CONSIDER IT ALTOGETHER?

STEPH: IT COULD BE BIFURCATED.

THEY WILL VOTE ON THEM SEPARATELY TO BE CLEAR BUT I THINK THEY WILL DO IT ON THE SAME DAY BECAUSE THE WHOLE THING COULD FALL APART IF THEY PASS ONE DEAL BUT NOT THE SEPARATE BROWN DEAL BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY ALL NEGOTIATED TOGETHER EVEN THOUGH BROWN HAS ITS SEPARATE DEAL WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO GET CITY STREETS AND DIFFERENT THINGS FROM THE CITY.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

BILL: THE PILOT PROGRAM WHICH IS PAYMENT IN LIEU OF TAXES HAS BEEN AROUND -- THIS HAS BEEN A DEBATE FOR DECADES, DECADES.

AND IT HAS GOTTEN A LOT MORE PUBLICITY LATELY BECAUSE FINANCIAL TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

IT IS ALWAYS SORT OF A TUG-OF-WAR.

YOU GET COUNCILMEMBERS WHO THINK THIS IS GOOD YOU GOT THEM TO THIS POINT BUT WE WANT THAT PLUS MORE.

AND THEY WANT TO HAVE A SAY AND IT IS TYPICALLY SOMETHING NEGOTIATED BY THE ADMINISTRATION.

I THINK THEY WILL GET TO A POINT WHERE THEY HAVE SOMETHING THEY CAN LIVE WITH BUT IT HAS BEEN SOMETHING GOING ON FOR LONG TIME THAT HAS BEEN THREATENED, LAWSUITS THAT ARE GOING TO BE FILED, IF AN AGREEMENT HAS NOT BEEN REACHED, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO REACH AN AGREEMENT.

JIM: LAST 15 SECONDS?

DAN: IT'’S FUNNY, THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOREVER.

1990 THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR MAYOR SAYS TAX BROWN, TEX BROWN.

PROVIDENCE JOURNAL EDITORIAL BOARD, DON'’T DO IT.

THEY WERE ON GROUNDS ASIDE AND THINGS HAVE EVOLVED A LOT.

JIM: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

BILL, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN AND STEPH AND DAN.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR LOYALTY TO THE SHOW.

WE ARE HERE EVERY WEEK FOR YOU, PLEASE COME BACK NEXT WEEK AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

♪ 0 A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HAYES AND WHITE JUNIOR.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM ARO