JIM: COMING UP, THE GLOVES COME OFF IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE PLAYED OUT ON TV AND RADIO AIRWAVES THIS WEEK.

AND THE FEDERAL JUDGE SAYS RHODE ISLAND'S TRUCK WHOLE PROGRAM IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

SO WHAT COMES NEXT?

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HE'S MY JUNIOR.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS -- I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US WITH THE ANALYSIS, ATTORNEY AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DAN RILEY, JIM VISITS, PRESIDENT OF THE PROMINENT BRANCH OF THE NAACP, AND BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER AMANDA MILK OF ITS.

WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S LIVELY.

THE CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR TOOK A DECIDEDLY NASTY TURN THIS WEEK AS ASHLEY KAYLA AND DAN MCKEE WENT AFTER EACH OTHER PERSONALLY.

SHE CALLED HIM A MISOGYNIST, HE QUESTIONED HOW SOMEBODY WAS NOT FROM RHODE ISLAND COULD RUN A STATE THAT SHE BARELY KNOWS AREA WE ARE STILL FIVE WEEKS OUT FROM THE ELECTION.

JIM, LET ME BEGIN FEW.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS INEVITABLE, IT SEEMS IT IN EVERY CAMPAIGN BUT THIS SEEMED MORE PERSONAL THAN WE ARE USED TO.

JIM V.: I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, BUT I ALSO THINK THE MEDIA HAS SEIZED ON CERTAIN THINGS BECAUSE IT SELLS.

I THINK WE ARE AT A TIME WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING MORE PERSONAL IN TERMS OF THE ATTACKS.

I SEE SOME OF THE ADS AND THEY'RE ALMOST LIKE BRUTAL IN TERMS OF THE ATTACKS AGAINST EACH OTHER.

SO HOPEFULLY WE WILL HEAR MORE ABOUT THE ISSUES AS OPPOSED TO THE PERSONAL TAX.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SERVE ANYBODY, INCLUDING THE CANDIDATES, TO SLING MUD AND GET INTO PERSONAL ATTACKS LIKE THAT.

I'M HOPEFUL THIS IS JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT HAPPENED LAST WEEKEND, GOING FORWARD, YOU WILL NOT SEE THE SAME PERSONAL ATTACKS.

JIM H.: AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THE LOT -- ON THE SHOW A LOT, CONSULTANTS DRIVE A LOT OF THAT.

IT SOUNDS LIKE CANS LINES, THIS IS WHAT WE WILL THROW IN THERE.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU FEEL THAT WAY AS WELL OR AT SOME OWING TO, AT WHAT POINT DOES THE CANDIDATE TAKE CONTROL AND LET'S -- AND SAY LET'S GET THE SHIP BACK?

DAN: I THINK DAN MCKEE TOOK SOME OF THE NARRATIVE.

JIM H.: AND USE THE WORD CRAP BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR USED IT.

DAN: THE CONSULTANT DID NOT FIT IN THAT LINE BUT WHAT IT IS REALLY REFLECTED OF IS THAT TIGHTENING RICE AND WE HAVE NOT SEEN PUBLIC POLLING SINCE THE PRIMARY BUT WHAT IT IS SHOWING IS THERE IS GOING TO BE TIGHTENING IN THE RACE.

THAT WOULD HAPPEN NATURALLY BUT THE TONE AND TENOR OF NEGATIVE ATTACKS WILL BE DRIVEN BY WHAT THE RACE IS LOOKING LIKE BEHIND THE SCENES AND WHAT THE TRENDLINES ARE LOOKING LIKE.

CEARLEY THE MCKEE CAMPAIGN SEE SOMETHING IN THE MICHAELIS CAMPAIGN AND THE KAYLA'S CAMPAIGN IS STARTING TO HEAD ON IMPORTANT THEMES, PARTICULARLY AROUND THE SOCCER STADIUM, THE ISLA CONTRACT WHICH OF COURSE IS UNDER INVESTIGATION AND THEY ARE SEEING A RECEPTIVE AUDIENCE IN THE PUBLIC ELECTRIC, SO THE MCKEE CAMPAIGN IS FIGHTING BACK.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE SEEING AND I DO NOTHING THAT WILL LET UP IN THE NEXT FIVE WEEKS.

AMANDA: I AGREE.

I THINK WE ARE ON THIS ROLLER COASTER RIGHT NOW AND WE ARE BEGINNING -- I DO NOT THINK THE PERSONAL ATTACKS WILL END.

I THINK THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING AREA PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR WHAT IS GOING TO HIT WITH VOTERS SO WE HAVE SEAGULLS, SIEGEL MANAGERS, CRAPPING, AND THEN THE ISSUE OF PAWTUCKET.

THOSE ARE DISTRACTIONS FROM THE ACTUAL ISSUES.

I THINK BOTH CANDIDATES DECIDED HOW THEY WOULD PAINT EACH OTHER, WHO IS THE INSIDER, WHO IS THE INSIDER, WHO'S THE OUTSIDER.

W PRI HAD AN INTERESTING STORY TODAY TALKING ABOUT WHERE ASHLEY KAYLA'S, THAT SHE IS CONSIDERING HER HOME IN NEW POINT IS A SECOND HOME WITH A MORTGAGE WRITER AND I THINK THAT WILL BE AN ISSUE WE CAN EXPECT GOVERNOR MCKEE TO LATCH ONTO.

WHERE DOES SHE LIVE?

IS SHE COMMITTED TO RHODE ISLAND, JUST AS SHE IS TACKLING HIM FOR THE TIDEWATER ISSUE.

JIM H.: BUT HER RESPONSE WAS NOT TO SAY -- NOT TO HIT IT HEAD-ON BUT TO SAY THIS IS INDICATION THAT IT IS A FAILING CAMPAIGN.

IT THREW US ON MCKEE, WHAT ABOUT THE SECOND MORTGAGE?

WHAT ABOUT THE MORTGAGE IN THE SECOND HOME?

JIM V.: I THINK HE WILL HAVE TO COME AROUND TO ISSUES AT SOME POINT AND THE EQUALITY COVERAGE, ABORTION COVERAGE ACT WILL COME UP AND DAN MCKEE IS FOR IT AND ASHLEY I'M ASSUMING IS AGAINST IT.

THERE WILL BE ISSUES LIKE THAT WHERE THERE WILL CLEARLY BE A STAND BY ONE OF THE OTHER AND I THINK WE WILL GET DIFFERENTIATION.

EVEN AMONG THE MUDSLINGING.

I AM HOPEFUL IT WILL NOT BE THAT WAY BUT I HOPE IT WILL CONTINUE.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT IS RON DESANTIS -- IS RON DESANTIS STILL YOUR FAVORITE HERO?

YSALINE OF FOLKS?

WE NEED MORE DIFFERENTIATION THE ON THE PERSONAL TAX.

JIM H.: THE DEBATES ARE COMING UP, ONE-ON-ONE, THEY HAVE SET OUT THREE DEBATES AND ONE IS A LITTLE CLOSER.

THE WHOLE EARLY VOTING THING, I'M NOT SURE THAT IS A BIG DEAL.

TO ME, EARLY VOTING MOST PEOPLE, THEY DID NOT VOTE 20 DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION, THEY OUT OF CONVENIENCE DID IT MAYBE A COUPLE DAYS BEFORE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS WHOLE DEAL, WE WANT TO HAVE THESE BEFORE THE EARLY VOTING STARTS?

DOES THAT MATTER AT ALL?

DAN: I THINK THE PROCESS SHOULD START THE CAMPAIGN AND STATE HAS INCENTIVIZED EARLY ARE GOINT VOTING, I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO HEAR FROM THE CANDIDATES AND DEBATE AND CERTAINLY THE SCHEDULE IS TRADITIONALLY SET BASED ON ELECTION DAY BEING THE CENTER OF NOT ALL BUT MOST VOTING.

I THINK PARTICULARLY THE KAYLA'S CAMPAIGN HAS A VALID POINT.

BUT I AGREE THAT I THINK TURN OUT IS GOING TO STILL BE WEIGHTED HEAVILY TOWARD ELECTION DAY.

WE SAW THAT THE PRIMARY, WE SAW A COME DOWN OFF OF THE COVID SPIKE FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT EARLY VOTING?

DAN: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT.

WHEN I WAS A CANDIDATE, I WAS ALWAYS EAGER TO GET MAIL BALLOTS OUT TO PEOPLE.

I HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT WHO WERE FRIENDLY TO ME VOTING FOR ME BUT WERE NOT THERE ON ELECTION DAY OR WANTED AN EASIER WAY TO BIG.

IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT GETTING OUT TO THEM AND NOT NEARLY AS EASY BACK THEN AS IT IS NOW.

WHEN YOU TALK TO ASHLEY KAYLA'S, ALLAN FUNG, GENERAL SIMILE CANDIDATES, I HAVE YET TO MEET A REPUBLICAN RUNNING FOR OFFICE IN THE STATE WHO IS NOT WORKING HARD TO GET VOTERS OUT THERE EARLY AND MAKE SURE THEY KNOW THAT PEOPLE CAN VOTE EARLY.

JIM V.: WILL THE CONGRESS PRINCE WAS IN FIRMLY SUPPORT OF THE TWO PILLARS FOR US, EARLY VOTING, CODIFIED INTO LAW, AS WELL AS MAIL BALLOT BECOMING EASIER, SO YOU DON'T HAVE THE TWO WITNESSES IN THE NOTARY.

THE NAACP STRONGLY SUPPORT EARLY VOTING AND I THINK THAT IMPACT INTERNS OF BEFORE AND AFTER IS MINIMAL.

I WOULD AGREE THAT HAVING ITS BEFORE THE EARLY VOTING PERIOD WOULD BE HELPFUL BUT MOST PEOPLE VOTE EARLY.

THEY KNOW THINGS CAN CHANGE.

THEY MAKE A CAUSES DECISION KNOWING THAT, NOT LIKE SOMEONE MADE THEM VOTE EARLY.

I DO NOT THINK THIS WHOLE THING ABOUT KNOWING ABOUT WHAT THE ISSUES ARE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT VOTING ON ELECTION DAY, I DON'T THINK THAT HOLDS WATER.

DAN: DAN MCKEE WAS A BENEFICIARY OF THE WAY SURGING CANDIDATE, ONE OF THE FOLKS WHO PEAKED AND HAD A GREAT DEBATE BEFORE THE PRIMARY.

HIS CAMPAIGN IS NOT PUSHING FOR DEBATES EARLIER BECAUSE HE IS WORRIED ABOUT THE SAME ISSUE WE CAN GET LOST IN THE EARLY VOTING IN DOING IT BEFORE PEOPLE -- THIS IS WHY THE MCKEE CAMPAIGN DOESN'T WANT TO DO IT, HE IS THE INCUMBENT, ONCE THE CONTROL THE NARRATIVE AS BEST AS POSSIBLE.

HE KNOWS WITH AN OUTSIDER RUNNING AGAINST HIM, THE BIGGEST RISK IS HAVING A TO WELL FOR HIS OPPONENT AND IF THAT HAPPENS, CLOSER TO ELECTION DAY, THEY CAN BANK ON MORE VOTES COMING IN BEFOREHAND THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN CAST AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT CHANGING MINDS.

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE PUSHING THE SCHEDULE AS FAR OUT AS POSSIBLE.

JIM H.: WE ALL KNOW THE REALITY OF WHAT YOU SAY ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND TO GOVERN OUR TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

WIKI SAID I WILL DO THIS.

THE REALITY IS, RHODE ISLAND, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER WANTS.

LET'S DO THIS AND REFORMING THE EDUCATION AND ALL OF THAT AND I WONDER FOR HER, THIS IS MY THOUGHT ABOUT IF SHE DOES GET ELECTED GOVERNOR, AND THAT IS A BIG IF, WE DON'T KNOW NOW, THEN HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE LEGISLATURE?

DON KATERI BANKED HIS HEAD AGAINST THE WALL FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

HE DID GET SOME STUFF DONE.

WHEN YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN IN THAT SEAT IT IS DIFFICULT.

AMANDA: I AGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK GOVERNOR MCKEE, MY PERSONAL OPINION IS HE IS AN EASY TARGET BECAUSE HE HAS A TRACK RECORD, A HISTORY FOR BETTER OR WORSE, SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.

ASHLEY KAYLA'S IS AN UNKNOWN.

SHE JUST MOVED TO THE STATE THIS YEAR AND SHE VOTED ELSEWHERE TWO YEARS AGO.

WE DON'T KNOW WHO SHE IS, OR TEAM IS, AND THAT IS SOMETHING I THINK VOTERS ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT, THAT IS WHY THE DEBATES WILL BE IMPORTANT.

IF SHE DOES MAKE IT TO BECOME GOVERNOR, I'M WONDERING HOW MUCH OF AN ISSUE THE ABORTION RIGHTS WILL BE, AND IF REPUBLICANS REGAIN POWER IN CONGRESS IF THEY ARE ABLE TO SUCCEED IN HAVING A NATIONWIDE ABORTION BAN, WHAT HAPPENS TO RHODE ISLAND?

JIM H.: SHE WENT OUT OF HER WAY YESTERDAY, ON THE RADIO, SAYING I AM PERSONAL AND PRO-LIFE BUT THIS IS THE LAW IN RHODE ISLAND, I WOULD NOT MOVE TO CHANGE IT.

I WONDER WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THE NATIONAL DISCUSSION ON ABORTION FILTERS RHODE ISLAND OR IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT FACTOR IN.

DAN: AS FAR AS THE GOVERNOR'S RACE IS CONCERNED, I DON'T THINK IT REALLY MATTERS.

THE LAW OF THE LAND IN RHODE ISLAND IS ABORTION, FOR ALL NINE MONTHS OF PREGNANCY FOR ANY REASON, IS 100% LEGAL NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

IF A NATIONAL BAN WERE TO TAKE EFFECT, I THINK THAT IS A REAL IF, THE GOVERNOR WOULD NOT HAVE ANY POWER OVER THAT.

IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A FEDERAL LAW.

IF ASHLEY KAYLA'S IS SUCCESSFUL IN HER RUN, SHE SAID SHE WOULD NOT OVERTURN THAT LAW, BUT IT WOULD BE A MONUMENTAL LIFT BECAUSE IT WOULD REQUIRE THE ASSENT OF THE LEGISLATURE SO THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE ISSUES.

IF PEOPLE ARE CRITICIZING HER FOR A POSITION ON THE STATE LAW, THE STATE LIES ALREADY THE LAW.

IF THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HER BEIN GOVERNOR AND FEDERAL LAW CHANGING, THERE IS A LOT OF FEDERAL LAWS THAT CAN CHANGE AND THE GOVERNOR HAS NO POWER OVER IT.

JIM H.: HOW BIG OF AN ISSUE IS IT?

JIM V.: I WILL NOT SAY IT IS A HUGE OR BIG ISSUE, I THINK IT'S AN ISSUE.

THIS WITH MEDICAID AND STATE WORKERS IN EFFECT DAN MCKEE IS FOR ALL WOMEN HAVING ACCESS AND ASHLEY KAYLA SEEMS NOT TO HAVE THEIR EQUALITY COVERAGE ACT AS SOMETHING SHE WOULD SUPPORT, THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT GROUPS.

ONCE THAT STARTS TO BECOME MORE TALKED ABOUT AND YOU CAN SEE A CLEAR DIFFERENCE IN THE STATE, I THINK IT WILL BE A FACTOR AND IN TERMS OF THE ELECTION.

DAN: THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT ALWAYS FIRES UP A RELATIVELY SMALL PERCENT OF THE ELECTORATE.

THEY VOTE ON THE PRO-LFE AND PRO-CHOICE SIDE.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST ELECTION ABORTION HAS COME UP.

IT IS THE FIRST POSTOP SELECTION BUT I DO NOT THINK YOU SEE IT IN THE POLLING RELEASED THAT THERE IS SUCH A SURGE IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE VOTING WHERE THIS IS THEIR NUMBER ONE ISSUE.

I DO NOT SEE THAT BEATING COST-OF-LIVING OR INFLATION.

AMANDA: I DON'T KNOW.

HONESTLY.

DAN: I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF ABORTION IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE AMONG THE ELECTORATE AND THAT BEATS INFLATION AND ENERGY PRICE.

AMANDA: I THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE DISCUSSED BY EVERYONE IN THE ELECTORATE AT THIS POINT OF VIEW.

THIS IS WHAT I'M HEARING ON THE GROUND, ABORTION IS A MAJOR ISSUE.

I DO NOT THINK WOMEN HAD EXPECTED THAT ROE V. WADE WOULD BE OVERTURNED AND, EVEN THOUGH IT IS THE LAW IN RHODE ISLAND, I THINK PEOPLE ARE FEELING VULNERABLE.

I AGREE WITH JIM, I THINK IT WILL BE OUT THERE.

IT IS NOT JUST THIS IS THE LAW OF THE LAND BUT IF THINGS CHANGE FEDERALLY, WOULD GOVERNOR KAYLA'S DO ANYTHING TO ENSURE THE RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED?

JIM V.: I JUST THINK YOU LOOK AT NATIONALLY, THERE IS A SURGE IN TERMS OF DEMOCRATS AND A LOT OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF SUBURBAN WOMEN, SUBURBAN WHITE WOMEN WH ARE REPUBLICAN.

THEY DON'T LIKE THIS IDEA OF THE ABORTION ISSUE CHANGING BY THE SUPREME COURT AND I THINK IT MIGHT NOT SHOW UP IN POLLING BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T SHOW UP IN POLLING, ESPECIALLY MY COMMUNITY DOES NOT SHARPEN POLLING, IT CAN BE A BIG SURPRISE ON ELECTION DAY.

JIM H.: THE OTHER ISSUE GOVERNOR MICKEY HAS HAD TO WALK BACK THINGS THAT $3000 VACCINATION BONUS, THE LATEST IS THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR INCREASES.

SOME PEOPLE GOING OUT $40,000.

MY PERSONAL FEELING IS IT MAKES SENSE TO ATTRACT GOOD PEOPLE.

YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM PROPERLY, THIS IS WHY IT IS HARD TO GET STUFF FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.

THEN HE HAD TO WALK IT BACK AND SAY WE ARE GOING TO DO AN INCREMENTAL.

IT IS ANOTHER ROLLOUT.

DOES THAT AFFECT PEOPLE'S VIEW OF THE GOVERNOR IN TERMS OF MAKING A DECISIVE DECISION THAN HAVING TO ROLL IT BACK OR DO PEOPLE GET THAT?

AMANDA: I THINK THE BIG SURPRISE WAS -- LAMY, AND SAY WHILE I DID NOT REALIZE THIS WAS THE LAW -- HOW DID YOU NOT KNOW THAT?

I THINK HE CAN ARGUE, PEOPLE CAN ARGUE WHETHER OR NOT THE RAISES ARE APPROPRIATE AND I AGREE WITH YOU, D.C. Y HAVE HAS BEEN A REAL ISSUE AND THE ROUTE THAT MULTIPLE TIMES ON WHY IT IS HARD TO TRACK PEOPLE.

HOWEVER, YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE EXPORT ALREADY TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND HOW THE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHETHER THIS IS NECESSARY RIGHT NOW.

JIM H.: IT'S A LITTLE BUMPY, THE ROLLOUT.

DAN: I DON'T KNOW WHO IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAID TO RELEASE THIS INFORMATION AND MAKE THIS A STORY WHEN THEY DID.

JIM V.: ISN'T IT THE LEGISLATURE THAT DICTATES?

DAN: NO, YOU HAVE TO NOTIFY THE LEGISLATURE IN WRITING AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY.

JIM H.: BUT IT ALSO MAY HAVE BEEN -- IN THE BUDGET CYCLE AS THEY ARE GETTING READY, THE BUDGET JUST DOES NOT MAGICALLY POP-OUT THAT THIS IS THE GROUNDWORK LAYING UP TO THEM.

WOULDN'T YOU HAVE SAID WE CAN TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE -- CAN WE TARGET SOMETHING ELSE?

DAN: THE BUDGET SUBMISSION PROCESS FROM NOW UNTIL JANUARY, IF IT IS THE GOVERNOR ALREADY IN OFFICE, IT IS A RELATIVELY INTERNAL PROCESS, THIS IS -- THERE IS NOTHING YOU HAVE TO DO IN AN OUTWARD FACING MANNER UNTIL THE GOVERNOR RELEASES THE BUDGET.

IF AGENCIES ARE DISCUSSING THE NEED TO HAVE THESE RACES, SOMETHING SOMEONE IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IF THEY WERE WISE WOULD SAY, LET'S HAVE THIS CONVERSATION IN NOVEMBER AND WE WILL MAKE THE CASE TO THE LEGISLATURE AND THE SUPREME COURT.

THE FACT THEY DON'T DO THE SIMPLE DECISION MAKING PROCESS CALLS INTO QUESTION THEIR ABILITY TO EXECUTE, WHICH SEEMS TO BE ALWAYS THE ISSUE WITH THE MCKEON MINISTRATION.

JIM V.: I AGREE THAT IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER NOVEMBER 9 OR NOVEMBER 10, BUT THE ISSUE REMAINS THAT PEOPLE HAVE COMPETITIVE SALARIES IN ORDER TO ATTRACT THE PEOPLE YOU WANT.

I WAS ON THE D.C. SEARCH COMMITTEE AND I KNOW HOW HARD IT WAS TO GET PEOPLE THE SALARY IT IS.

SHOULDN'T PEOPLE BE GETTING $60,000 RAISES?

I GUESS NOT BECAUSE THE OTHER STATES MAY BE CARS OR $20,000 AND BUMP UP.

I THINK IT IS WITHIN THE MARGINS IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I THINK TIMING IS EVERYTHING SO I THINK IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER -- JIM H.: MICKEY IS TRYING TO MAKE UP OF DECADES OF NOT BEING COMPETITIVE ON THAT.

JIM V.: AND THAT'S FINE BUT IN TERMS OF RAISES FOR ANYBODY, I DON'T THINK THERE IS APPETITE, EVEN IF IT IS JUSTIFIABLE, TO HAVE RAISES.

I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD SAY IT IS NOT JUSTIFIABLE BUT RIGHT NOW, THE PUBLIC IS SUFFERING AND IN TERMS OF INFLATION AND OTHER THINGS, IT IS NOT SOMETHING POLITICALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD THING TO NOT HAVE AFTER THE ELECTION.

JIM H.: BIG ISSUE THAT CAME OUT LAST WEEK, WE DID NOT TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE HAVE A COLLEGE NEWSPAPER EDITOR ON IT IN THE BIG NEWS WAS THE TRUCK TOLLS.

I'VE BEEN DYING TO TALK ABOUT THIS, NOT ONLY AS A LEGISLATOR BUT ATTORNEY.

WE ASKED AND ASKED, WHERE IS THE LEGAL OPINION?

WERE MONDO WAS -- WE WERE ON ROCKSOLID GROUND AND APPARENTLY JOE SMITH DECIDED OTHERWISE.

>> WE KNEW ALL ALONG THEY WERE NOT.

WHEN WE WERE IN THE LEGISLATURE, I PASS THE BILL ALONG WITH IN MY OTHER COLLEAGUES, THE MINORITY LEADER AT THE TIME, WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE DOCUMENTS AND SAID WHERE IS THIS LEGAL OPINION?

IT SAYS THIS IS LEGAL.

WE WENT TO THE CASELAW LAW AND DID THE RESEARCH OURSELVES AND WE SAID YOU HAVE THREE PINCER BOWL WEAKNESSES IN HOW THIS LAW IS PUT TOGETHER.

THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SAID WE WERE CRAZY, WE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, WE WERE COMPLETELY WRONG.

WHEN YOU READ THE OPINION, WE WERE 100% VINDICATED.

WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE, WE WANTED THE LAW CHANGED AT THE TIME SO IT WITHSTAND SCRUTINY AND WE WOULD NOT HAVE SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON A SYSTEM THAT HAS TO BE TURNED OFF BUT HERE WE ARE AND IT WAS ALL COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE HAD THEY TAKEN THE MORE ROOTED TRACK AND NOT TRY TO CREATE SUCH A PROTECTIONIST SCHEME.

THEY WANTED THEIR CAKE AND WANTED TO EAT IT TOO.

THEY WANTED TO MAKE SURE NO PROTECTED INTEREST GROUP HAD TO PAY THEM SO THE WAY THEY WROTE IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

JIM H.: I WONDER, THE UNDERLYING AS BEING THAT IS THE CREEP TOWARD HAVING THE CARS.

THE MICKEY ADMINISTRATION IS DOING A GOOD HEISMAN SAYING WE WILL TALK TO ABOUT THIS, WE HAVE NOT DECIDED YET.

WHO WILL SAY YEAH WE WANT TO DO CARS BUT I AM BAFFLED BY ALL OF THE RESOURCES THAT WENT INTO THIS AND NOW WE UNDERSTAND WE CAN DO IT.

AMANDA: THAT'S THE THING, YOU BROUGHT UP A GREAT POINT, REAP -- WE REQUESTED THE LEGAL ANALYSIS AND THE ROMANO ADMINISTRATION SAID WE COULD DO IT AND JUDGE SMITH, DIDN'T HE ORIGINALLY DISMISS THE CASE?

JIM H.: IT WAS A STANDING, RIGHT?

DAN: IT WAS A STANDING TO BRING THE CASE.

AMANDA: AND WE NEVER REACHED THE AMOUNT THEY THOUGHT WE WOULD REACH, WASN'T IT SUPPOSED TO BE $45 MILLION BUT IT TURNED OUT TO BE $40 MILLION?

BUT NOW WHAT?

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND LEADERS SAY DON'T WORRY WE WILL NOT CREEP INTO NOW WE WILL JUST TELL CARS.

JIM H.: BUT THEN DID THEY THROW GOOD MONEY, ARE THEY GOING TO APPEAL?

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOMEBODY QUESTION GINA RAIMONDO.

NOT THAT THE COMMERCE SECRETARY WILL WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THIS BUT SOMEBODY GET A MICROPHONE IN HER FACE AND SAY, WHAT IS THE DEAL?

JIM V.: AND NOT TO JUSTIFY THE LEGAL THINKING AT THE TIME BUT THE BRIDGES IN RHODE ISLAND ARE THE WORSE IN THE COUNTRY AT THE TIME AND WE WERE IN CRISIS, BEFORE THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WAS PASSED.

WHICH MAY HELP SAVE THE GAP, SHOWS US WHAT WILL HAVE TO BE FILLED BECAUSE WE ARE NOT DOING ANYMORE AND I THINK THEY RAISED MAYBE 100 MILLION.

IN TERMS OF BRIDGE COVERAGE, WHERE THEY STARTED, THERE WERE 74% AND THE GOAL WAS 90%.

NOW THEY ARE 83% SO THERE WAS MOVEMENT IN TERMS OF FIXING IN RHODE ISLAND.

MAYBE THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THINKING IN TERMS OF THE LOCALITY OF IT.

IN TERMS OF THE CRISIS, BRIDGES ARE NOW BETTER THAN LET'S SAY DURING THE PANDEMIC.

JIM H.: NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT BUT YOU HEARD IT WOULD BE 10% OF THE BUDGET.

IT'S NOT LIKE ROADWORK, IT WOULD MAKE UP THE LAST 10%.

IS NOT LIKE THERE WAS NO OTHER MONEY INVOLVED SO WE SPENT THIS MONEY TO GO AFTER THAT LAST 10%.

DAN: THAT'S RIGHT.

AND WE DID NOT ISSUE BONDS BACKED BY THE TOLLS WHICH IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE I THINK THE STATE RECOGNIZED THEIR WEAKNESS AND WE WOULD REALLY BE IN A TIGHT SITUATION BUT WHAT WE DID DO WAS ISSUE OTHER DEBT AND GO OUT AND SPEND A LOT OF MONEY WITH THIS CASH REPRESENTING A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF HOW WE WOULD PAY FOR IT.

SO WE STILL HAVE A BIG HOLE WE HAVE TO FILL.

THE COST OF THE ENTRIES NOTWITHSTANDING, IF THEY TURN OUT TO BE A WASTE OR HAVE TO BE REPURPOSED SOMEHOW, WE HAVE MONEY WE ARE SPENDING TODAY THAT IS BACKED IN PART BY THIS REVENUE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO GO TO IT, THE 40 MILLION PER YEAR.

AND IT HAS BEEN GOING UP, NOT AGGRESSIVELY AS THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD IT WOULD REPRESENT IN THEIR MINDS ANY INCREASING SHARE OF OUR TRANSPORTATION SPENDING AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE IT NOW.

JIM H.: AMANDA, YOU HAVE DONE GREAT WORK ON NORTH KINGSTOWN.

WE WERE TALKING OFF CAMERA BEFORE AND DAN SAID, WEREN'T WE TALKING ABOUT THIS A YEAR AGO?

[LAUGHTER] I KNOW WE WILL TALK ABOUT THIS A YEAR FROM NOW.

SET THE TABLE ON THE LATEST ON WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING.

IF YOU ARE APPARENT IN NORTH KINGSTOWN OR ANY COMMUNITY, WE ALL PAY TAXES AND HELP THE SCHOOL COMMITTEE AND ADMINISTRATORS ARE GOING TO DO THEIR JOB AND THEY HAVE SO FALLEN DOWN ON THE JOB.

AMANDA: RIGHT.

NOT TO DEPRESS YOU BUT I DON'T THINK NORTH KINGSTOWN IS ALONE IN THIS.

I THINK NORTH KINGSTOWN JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE PLACE WE ARE LOOKING AT.

JIM H.: THAT DEPRESSES ME.

[LAUGHTER] AMANDA: SORRY.

I THINK THESE STORIES ARE HEADING SO STRONGLY BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN RELATE, EVERYONE CAN RELATE TO A CREEPY TEACHER IN THEIR PAST, I KNOW I CAN, SO MY LATEST STORY WAS ON MIDDLE SCHOOL BOYS WHO TOOK IT UPON THEMSELVES, THEY DID NOT LIKE HOW THEIR TEACHER WAS BEHAVING AROUND THE GIRLS.

THEY DID NOT LIKE HOW HE WAS TREATING THEM EITHER BUT HE WAS VERY CREEPY AND THEY THOUGHT HE WAS CREEPY WITH THE GIRLS, KINDA FLIRTATIOUS, HE WOULD HAVE ONE OF THEM TAKE OFF HER SHOES AND SOCKS AND WIGGLE HER TOES FOR HIM.

GET UP AND DANCE FOR ME.

SO THEY STARTED, THEY ARE ON DISCORD BECAUSE THEY ARE GAMERS, SO THEY CREATED THEIR OWN LITTLE FILE, THEY CALLED IT THE PEDO DATABASE AND NAMED IT AFTER THE TEACHER.

FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR, OFTEN ON, A TEAR -- EIGHT BOYS CONTRIBUTE IT TO WHAT THEY SAW HIM DO, NOT BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD EVER END UP IN THE HANDS OF THE AUTHORITIES BUT IT DID, BUT JUST BECAUSE NOBODY WAS LISTENING TO THEM.

THAT IS BEEN A COMMON THEME IN NORTHERN KINGSTOWN, KIDS AND PARENTS HAVE COME FORWARD OVER THE YEARS AND TOLD PRINCIPALS AND SUPERINTENDENTS HEY, THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THIS TEACHER, A PROBLEM WITH THIS COACH, AARON THOMAS, WHO HAS SINCE BEEN CHARGED WITH TWO FELONIES.

THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH A COACH AT THE HIGH SCHOOL WHO IS NOW ON ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE, THERE IS ALSO PROBABLY THIS COACH AND TEACHER AT DAVISVILLE, MIDDLE SCHOOL ALSO ON ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE AND NOW IT IS ALL COMING BACK, NOW THEY ARE FINALLY LISTENING BECAUSE, ONCE IT OPENED UP, OTHER KIDS WERE COMING FORWARD.

JIM H.: WHAT IS THE LEGAL EXPOSURE FOR THE TOWN AND SCHOOL DEPARTMENT?

AMANDA: THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE TITLE IX INVESTIGATION, WE HAVE MULTIPLE INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS GOING ON .

THERE IS CRIMINAL CHARGES OF COURSE AGAINST AARON THOMAS, A LAWYER, TIMOTHY CONLON, WHO HAVE GONE AFTER THE DIOCESE AS REPRESENTING MULTIPLE FORMER AND CURRENT STUDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES WITH COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.

JIM H.: WHAT IS THE LEGAL EXPOSURE?

DAN: I THINK IT WILL BE PRETTY SIGNIFICANT BE PRETTY SIGNIFICANT BEYOND THEIR CRIMINAL LIABILITIES.

I THINK THE TOWN IS GOING TO FACE SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL EXPOSURE HERE AND I THINK OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE TOO.

WHAT I FEAR A DEGREE WITH IS THE GLOBE AND OTHER OUTLETS ARE GOING TO NOW FIND STORY AFTER STORY.

THE NEXT SHOE TO DROP I WOULD GUESS IS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO START TO SEE THE USE OF CONFIDENTIAL SETTLEMENTS WITH SCHOOL COMMITTEES AND TOWNS, NOT JUST -- JIM H.: YOU CAN'T BE CONFIDENTIAL IF YOU ARE USING TAXPAYER MONEY.

DAN: RIGHT BUT WHAT I THINK WHAT HAPPEN IS YOU WILL PUT A SPOTLIGHT ON THOSE THINGS SO PEOPLE WHO EXITED THE SCHOOL -- DIFFERENT SCHOOL DISTRICT'S UNDER QUESTIONABLE CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE PAST, THEY MAY HAVE NOT HAVE WRITTEN DOWN WHY KNOWING IT IS DISCOVERABLE, THEN YOU WILL START TO SEE PEOPLE EXPOSE PATTERNS OF CONDUCT IN OTHER COMMUNITIES AND THINGS LIKE THIS HAVE HAPPENED.

JIM H.: ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE LARGELY INDEMNIFIED AND MUST YOU GO AFTER THEM PERSONALLY.

I KNOW THIS MAY NOT BE YOUR AREA OF EXPERTISE BUT WHAT ABOUT A TEACHER OR ADMINISTRATOR?

BECAUSE THEY ARE A PUBLIC OFFICIAL DOES THAT GIVE THEM SOME INSULATION OR NOT?

DAN: IF YOU TRY TO GO AFTER ONE OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY, THEIR DEFENSE CERTAINLY WILL START WITH THE TOWN HAS TO INDEMNIFY THEM AND TOWNS OR SCHOOL DISTRICT MAY TAKE CERTAIN ACTIONS DEPENDING ON THE SCOPE OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT AND THE FACTS OF THE CASE TO SAY ACTUALLY THE INDEMNIFICATION DOES NOT COUNT HERE, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN.

THESE THINGS ARE LITIGATED ALL THE TIME BECAUSE IF SOMEONE IS PAYING YOU WANT TO GET THEM IN FRONT.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK WHAT WILL HAPPEN, AT LEAST IF IT HAPPENS IN NORTH KINGSTOWN, IS WHERE YOU SHOW THE TOWN AND TOWN AUTHORITIES STARTING TO BE CULPABLE IN CASES WHERE WE -- THEY KNEW OF INFORMATION AND DID NOT DO ANYTHING, I THINK LAWYERS CAN ADVISE THEM THEY WILL BE FINANCIALLY SET ON THESE CASES AS WELL.

JIM V.: FIRST OF ALL, CONGRATULATIONS ON AN AMAZING STORY.

YOU EXPOSE SOMETHING THAT WAS REPREHENSIBLE.

KUDOS TO THE KIDS WITH THE PEDO DATABASE AND SHAME ON ALL THOSE ADMINISTRATORS THAT LOOKED THE OTHER WAY.

I FELT THE STRIKING THING IN YOUR STORY TO ME WAS THE FACT THAT THESE ALLEGED PEDOPHILES MOVED ON AVERAGE THREE TIMES BEFORE THEY ARE FINALLY MEETING JUSTICE.

THREE TIMES.

ANOTHER WORDS THEY MIGHT MOVE FROM NORTH KINGSTON ANOTHER TOWN IN ANOTHER TOWN AND ONLY A THIRD TOWN WITH A FINALLY BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE.

THAT SHOULD BE ALARMING TO EVERYBODY.

JIM H.: THAT WAS THE ISSUE WITH AARON THOMAS.

AMANDA: AARON THOMAS WENT TO CLARK.

RIGHT.

AND IN THE CASE OF THE DAVISVILLE MIDDLE SCHOOL TEACHER, HE WAS PREVENTED FROM COACHING IN NORTH KINGSTON BECAUSE OF THE COMPLAINTS BUT HE WENT TO TWO OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICT NEARBY AND THERE WERE COMPLAINTS.

JIM H.: WE WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW YOUR STORIES IS LESS TO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

DAN: THE PUC RATE INCREASE APPROVAL FOR 47% INCREASE IN ELECTRICITY RATES IN THIS COMING YEAR, I THINK THAT IS FIRST OUTRIGHT HAND SUB OUTRAGE ARE THE STATE LEGISLATORS WHO VOTE THE POLICIES THAT UNDERGIRD THE HIGHER AND INCREASING RATES WITH ALL OF THE MANDATORY SUBSIDIES THAT RHODE ISLAND ENERGY HAS TO DO TOWARD RENEWABLES AND OTHER SOURCES OF ENERGY THAT IS DRIVING THE COST OF POWER UP BUT THEN CLAIMING THESE INCREASES ARE HORRIBLE, INCREASES ARE HORRIBLE AND WE SHOULD NOT BE BACKING PUBLIC POLICIES RIGHT NOW THAT ARE FORCING OUR COSTS TO GO HIGHER WHEN WE HAVE NO SUPPLY TO BACKFILL THAT.

JIM H.: WHAT QUICKLY COULD THEY HAVE DONE IN YOUR MIND?

DAN: I THING THE PUC SHOULD PULL BACK REGULATIONS SO RHODE ISLAND FACES LESS PRESSURE WHEN THERE ARE A MACRO FACTOR IN PLAY, LIKE THE WORLD ECONOMY AND GLOBAL ENERGY PRICES SPIKING.

JIM H.: AMANDA, WHAT YOU HAVE?

AMANDA: I WILL GIVE A KUDOS, TO LIBRARIANS.

THE SOFT-SPOKEN PEOPLE.

WE ARE JUST COMING OFF OF BANNED BOOKS WEEK WHERE I LEARNED NATIONALLY THE NUMBER OF CHALLENGES AND BOOK BANNINGS ARE AT THE ALL-TIME HIGH ACCORDING TO THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION.

IN AWE RHODE ISLAND, WE ALSO HAD ISSUES OF MULTIPLE BOOKS CHALLENGED AND SOMETIMES BY GROUPS THAT ARE ORGANIZED SPECIFICALLY TO GO AFTER THEM.

NOT NECESSARILY PARENTS CONCERNED ABOUT A BOOK BUT PARENTS WHO ARE COMING INTO A DIFFERENT DISTRICT SAYING THIS BOOK NEEDS TO BE BANNED.

LIBRARIANS ARE RESPONDING BY COMING UP WITH POLICIES THAT SAY IF YOU WANT TO BAN A BOOK FROM EVERYBODY, YOU WANT TO PUT UP THE SHELVES, PROVE YOU READ IT.

JIM H.: YOU GET THE LAST MINUTE, MR. VINCENT.

JIM V.: IT WAS GOING TO BE AN OUTRAGE ABOUT GOVERNOR DESANTIS, HIS BEHAVIOR TOWARD VENEZUELAN IMMIGRANTS BUT I WILL DO A KUDO TO LIGHTEN IT UP A LITTLE BIT.

ON FRIDAY, OCTOBER 7, EVERYBODY HERE IS INVITED TO THE NAACP BRANCH ANNUAL FREEDOM FROND -- FUN TO GALA, WE WILL HAVE A GREAT TIME, FIVE GRADE AWARD WINNERS, COLONEL SHARON HARMON, FIRST BY COLONEL, AN RHODE ISLAND HISTORY, GUARD HISTORY, SUSAN PIRES, OSBORN, CEDRIC UTLEY, AND THE KEYNOTE SPEAKER, DRUMROLL, CONGRESSMAN AYANNA PRESSLEY.

DAN.

[LAUGHTER] JIM H.: HE WILL BE IN THE FRONT ROW.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING YOUR TIME WITH US.

DAN, JIM, AMANDA, GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK.

IF YOU DON'T CATCH US FRIDAY AT 7:00 OR SUNDAY AT NOON, CHECK OUT OUR SOCIAL MEDIA, FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND WE ARCHIVE ALL OF OUR SHOWS AT RIPBS.ORG/LIVELY.

IT WILL BE A WILDFIRE WEEKS THROUGH ELECTION DAY AND I HOPE YOU CAN JOIN US FOR THE ANALYSIS AND COME BACK HERE NEXT WEEK AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

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VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY, I AM JOHN HAZENWHITE JR.