>> WE LOOK AHEAD TO 2023.

A STATE BUDGET.

POLITICAL MANEUVERING.

PLUS, ABORTION AND MORE.

FROM THE TELEVISION STUDIOS AT WFYI, IT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW, FOR THE WEEK ENDING DECEMBER 30, 2022.

"INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

THE 2023 BUDGET SESSION.

GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB SAYS THE NEW STATE REVENUE FORECAST IS "ROSIER" THAN HE ANTICIPATED.

BUT HE SAYS IT STILL CALLS FOR A "DISCERNING" APPROACH TO WRITING A NEW STATE BUDGET.

THE FORECAST PROJECTS LAWMAKERS WILL HAVE ABOUT 600 MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR IN NEW MONEY FOR THE NEXT STATE BUDGET.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT, BUT JUST A 2 PERCENT INCREASE IN K-12 FUNDING ALONE IS AT LEAST 160 MILLION PER YEAR.

NOW, ADD ON THE NEW INITIATIVES GOVERNOR HOLCOMB IS PROPOSING: PUBLIC HEALTH SPENDING THAT COSTS 130 MILLION DOLLARS JUST IN THE FIRST YEAR, ANOTHER ROUND OF READI ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GRANTS, STATE EMPLOYEE PAY INCREASES.

THAT 600 MILLION IN NEW SPENDING DISAPPEARS FAST.

AND HOLCOMB SAYS IT REQUIRES RESPONSIBLE BUDGETING.

>> AT THE SAME TIME, TRYING TO FUND SOME PROVEN PROGRAMS, BE IT DEVELOPMENT.

>> THERE WILL BE ANOTHER REVENUE FORECAST IN APRIL THAT WILL GIVE BUDGET WRITERS AN UPDATED PICTURE OF HOW MUCH MONEY THEY'LL HAVE TO SPEND OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

HOW CAUTIOUS WILL LAWMAKERS BE WHEN WRITING THE NEW BUDGET?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL: DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, JON SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND NIKI KELLY, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF FOR THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE BUREAU CHIEF BRANDON SMITH.

ANN DELANEY, ON THE BUDGET, HOW CAUTIOUS CAN LAWMAKERS AFFORD TO BE WHEN HOOSIERS ARE LOOKING AT ALL THAT MONEY?

>> THEY ARE WAY TOO CAUTIOUS.

I MEAN, IT IS PROJECTED NOW THAT AT THE END OF THIS FISCAL YEAR, IN JUNE OF AGAIN 23, WE 2023, WE WILL HAVE TAKEN IN $2.3 BILLION MORE THAN WE'VE SPENT.

NOW THEY'RE PROJECTING ANOTHER $320 MILLION ON TOP OF THAT.

WE HAVE NEEDS OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, THEY KEEP TALKING ABOUT CUTTING TAXES, AND IT'S SHOWN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THAT WHEN YOU WANT BUSINESSES TO COME HERE, THEY WANT TO LOOK AT THE QUALITY OF LIFE.

THEY WANT TO LOOK WHAT THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS LIKE, HOW AFFORDABLE IS HIGHER EDUCATION, WHAT'S THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM LIKE IN THE STATE?

>> IT ABOUT GETTING WORKERS TO COME HERE TOO.

NOT JUST PEOPLE WHO ALREADY ARE HERE.

>> NOT JUST BUSINESSES, AND HOUSING, ANOTHER ISSUE.

ALL OF THESE ISSUES HAVE BEEN SIMMERING OR ACTUALLY BUBBLING UP FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS UNDER REPUBLICAN RULE, AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE VISION TO DEAL WITH ANY OF THEM.

HEALTHCARE, WE'RE AT THE BOTTOM IN TERMS OF HEALTHY POPULATION.

AND WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

WE TALK ABOUT IT.

WE COME OUT WITH A PROGRAM THAT SAYS, THIS IS THE MINIMUM OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, AND THEN WE'RE SAYING, WE NEED TO BE CAUTIOUS.

WE DON'T NEED TO BE CAUTIOUS.

WE NEED TO THINK AHEAD.

WE NEED TO BUILD THIS STATE TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PEOPLE LIVING HERE AND THE PEOPLE WE WANT TO MIGRATE HERE.

AND UNDER REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP, THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

>> IT'S NOT JUST DEMOCRATS WHO ARE CALLING FOR A LOT OF THESE THINGS.

I MEAN, THE GOVERNOR'S PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION IS SAYING WE NEED TO SPEND ON PUBLIC HEALTH.

REPUBLICANS AS MUCH AS DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING WE NEED HOUSING SOLUTIONS.

THERE'S ALWAYS THE K-12 EDUCATION, WE NEED MORE MONEY IN THAT, BUT ALSO HIGHER EDUCATION, THERE'S A RECOGNITION THAT WHATEVER THIS LOOKS LIKE, WHETHER IT'S FOUR-YEAR UNIVERSITIES AND FOUR-YEAR DEGREES OR APPRENTICESHIPS, CERTIFICATES, WHATEVER IT IS, WE CLEARLY NEED MORE PEOPLE DOING THAT THAN WE CURRENTLY HAVE.

IS ALL OF THIS COMING TO A CRITICAL MASS?

>> I THINK WHEN YOU DO THAT, AND YOU KIND OF TICK THROUGH AND GO, WE NEED THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS, THE BUDGET GUYS GO, THAT'S A REALLY LONG LIST, AND IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE MONEY.

YOU KNOW?

AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT DRIVES THE CAUTION.

I WAS AT THE STATEHOUSE LAST WEEK AND THE JOKE -- THIS IS A MADE UP NUMBER BUT THE JOKE WAS, I THINK WE'VE HIT $10 BILLION IN LEGISLATOR REQUESTS, NOT JUST AGENCY REQUESTS.

SO YOU HAVE 150 LAWMAKERS, ALL OF THESE STATE AGENCIES, NOT TO MENTION THE IMPACT INFLATION HAS HAD ON THE CAPITAL PROJECTS ALREADY IN THE PIPELINE.

AND ONES THAT ARE IN THE MIDDLE BEING BUILT THAT THEY'VE GOT TO GO PUT MORE MONEY INTO BECAUSE THEY'RE OVER BUDGET.

AND SO THESE ARE BIG NUMBERS, AND -- BUT GOVERNING IS ABOUT PRIORITY.

THE THE GOVERNOR HAS MADE PUBLIC HEALTH A PRIORITY IN THIS SESSION, IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG PUSH TO MAKE THAT THE LEGISLATURE'S PRIORITY BECAUSE THEY'RE ULTIMATELY GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SURE $400 MILLION IS ASSIGNED TO THAT.

WE TALK ABOUT $1.2 BILLION OR $2.8 BILLION AND YOU START TICKING THROUGH THE NEEDS, YOU SWALLOW UP THAT MONEY BETTER FAST, AND IT BETTER BE ONGOING MONEY IF YOU'RE GOING TO ADD TO THE BOTTOM LINE.

>> I PITCHED THIS QUESTION TO THE GOVERNOR WHEN I TALKED TO HIM, WHICH WAS, GIVEN HOW MUCH MONEY WE'RE PROJECTED TO HAVE, AND WE'LL KNOW MORE IN APRIL, BUT GIVEN HOW MUCH MORE MONEY WE'RE PROJECTED TO V AND THAT LONG LIST OF THINGS THAT EVERYBODY WANTS, DOES IT FEEL A LITTLE LIKE ONE OF THOSE YEARS WHERE NOBODY GETS EVERYTHING, BUT EVERYBODY GETS SOMETHING?

HE THINKS IT IS A LITTLE BIT.

IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SHAPING UP FOR IN 2023?

>> PROBABLY.

BECAUSE THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE GAME.

YOU WANT -- PEOPLE HAVE CONSTITUENCIES IN STAKEHOLDER GROUPS THAT WOULD RATHER HAVE SOMETHING THAN NOTHING.

AND THAT MAY NOT BE THE BEST RECIPE FOR THE KINDS OF ADVANCES PROFOUND ADVANCES THAT THE STATE REALLY NEEDS IN TERMS OF PUBLIC HEALTH, IN TERMS OF THE WELL-BEING OF OUR POPULATION AND THE QUALITY OF LIFE HERE.

BUT THIS IS AN ELECTIVE BODY WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO TEND TO WANT TO PLEASE CONSTITUENCIES, SO I THINK IT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE SPREAD OUT.

IN FAIRNESS, I CAN'T THINK OF ANY GOVERNOR, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT, WHOEVER THIS YEAR AFTER SEEING THE INITIAL FORECAST HAS SAID, HOT DIGGITY, WE'VE SPENT EVERY LAST PENNY, OUR SHIP HAS COME IN.

EVEN IN THE ROSIEST OF YEARS, I MEAN, THIS IS POLITICS 101.

IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS.

YOU SET THE EXPECTATIONS LOW SO THAT YOU CAN DELIVER.

IF YOU LEAVE EVERYBODY RIGHT NOW THINKING, WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE ALL OUR HEALTH PROBLEMS, WE'RE GOING TO END SMOKING, WE'RE GOING TO END OUR MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS, WE'RE HAVING TO HAVE HOUSING FOR EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY GOES AWAY DISAPPOINTED.

>> BUT YOU DON'T HIDE THE MONEY AWAY IN $50 MILLION INCREMENTS.

>> LAST YEAR -- GIVE IT BACK, I SHOULD SAY.

>> THEY'RE HIDING IT AWAY.

THEY'RE PUTTING $500 MILLION FOR THAT PROJECT UP IN LEBANON THAT -- >> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S HIDING IT.

>> YEAH, IT IS ACTUALLY BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT'S GOING TO BE BUILT, MUCH LESS BONDED.

AND ON TOP OF THAT, THEY CAN'T ACT BECAUSE THEY DON'T THINK GOVERNMENT OUGHT TO FUNCTION.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> MIKE JUST SAID -- AND THIS IS TRUE -- BUDGETING IS ABOUT PRY OMPLETS WE'RE SETTING UPPRIORITIES.

IF IT LOOKS THE SAME AS THE ONE THIS DECEMBER DID, THERE'S GOING TO BE ENOUGH MONEY THAT WE HAVE TO DO STUFF BUT NOT ENOUGH -- LIKE QUITE HONESTLY THE LAST BUDGET WHERE WE DID EVERYTHING WE WANTED TO DO AND MORE BECAUSE OF ALL THE FEDERAL MONEY.

IS THAT GOING TO MAKE FOR A VERY DIFFICULT BIJT BUDGET FOR THE HOUE AND SENATE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WRITE -- AND THE GOVERNOR -- TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WRITE BETWEEN THEM?

>> THEY CONTINUE TO BE -- I DON'T WANT TO USE -- KIND OF OBSESSED WITH THIS WHOLE -- >> I THINK VERY OBSESSED WITH IT.

>> AND IT'S LIKE AT SOME POINT, YOU KNOW, KEEPING PAYING DOWN PENSION AND OTHER OBLIGATIONS DOESN'T HELP WHERE WE ARE NOW.

AND YEAH, GREAT, MAYBE 20 YEARS FROM NOW, WE CAN SPEND A BILLION MORE, BUT BY THEN, THEY WOULD HAVE CUT TAXES SO THEN WE CAN'T SPEND THE BILLION MORE.

AND ALSO, YOU MENTIONED THE CAPITAL PROJECTS.

THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION AT ALL LIKE IT USED TO BE WHEN A CAPITAL PROJECT CAME IN OVER, WELL, MAYBE WE NEED TO RE-LOOK AT THE SCOPE OF IT, YOU KNOW?

DO WE NEED THAT FULL CAPITAL PROJECT OR CAN WE BOND LIKE ANN MENTIONED?

SO THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK INTO SOME DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAN JUST WHAT THEY'VE DONE THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.

>> 2023 WILL INCLUDE PLENTY OF TALK ABOUT 2024 WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTIONS.

NOW ERIC HOLCOMB IS TERM-LIMITED FROM ANOTHER RUN AS GOVERNOR, LEAVING THE SEAT OPEN.

THREE REPUBLICANS HAVE ALREADY THROWN THEIR HATS INTO THE RING: U.S.

SENATOR MIKE BRAUN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SUZANNE CROUCH, AND FORT WAYNE BUSINESSMAN ERIC DODEN.

THE GOP PRIMARY WILL LIKELY BE EXPENSIVE: CROUCH SAID SHE'LL END THE YEAR WITH ABOUT $3 MILLION IN HER CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT.

DODEN, WHO'S BEEN IN THE RACE SINCE LAST MAY, HAS ALREADY COMPILED MORE THAN $2 MILLION.

AND BRAUN HAS ABOUT $1 MILLION IN HIS U.S. SENATE CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT.

THE DEMOCRATIC FIELD IS LESS CLEAR, THOUGH FORMER STATE SUPERINTENDENT JENNIFER MCCORMICK, WHO SERVED IN THAT OFFICE AS A REPUBLICAN, HAS STRONGLY INDICATED SHE'LL MAKE A BID.

OTHER RUMORED CANDIDATES INCLUDE FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRISTINA HALE, HAMMOND MAYOR TOM MCDERMOTT, AND FORMER U.S.

SENATOR JOE DONNELLY.

MIKE O'BRIEN, REPUBLICANS ARE GETTING IN THIS RACE EARLY.

DO DEMOCRATS NEED TO JOIN THEM SOON?

>> YEAH, THE LOSSES ARE ADDING UP.

AND NOT ONLY DO THEY NEED TO GET IN SOON, THEY NEED A QUALITY CANDIDATE.

NOT TO, YOU KNOW, DISPARAGE THE LAUNDRY LIST THAT WE JUST SAW, BUT THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- IT TENDS TO BE A QUESTION MARK FOR DEMOCRATS IN INDIANA ON WHO'S GOING TO RUN FOR NOT JUST GOVERNOR BUT SOME OF THESE OTHER OFFICES AND SOMETIMES THAT COMES LATE IN THE CYCLE.

>> THEY HAD A GREAT SLATE OF CANDIDATES FOR FALL, ULTIMATELY STILL LOST, BUT -- >> RIGHT.

THE SOONER THE BETTER WHEN YOU'RE STARING DOWN 24 YEARS OF NOT HOLDING THAT OFFICE.

>> THIS RACE HAS STARTED A LOT SOONER THAN IT NORMALLY DOES.

CERTAINLY YOU HAD ERIC DODEN WHO WAS OUT THERE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, BUT IF YOU DON'T COUNT HOW EARLY THAT WAS, EVEN DECEMBER, NEARLY TWO YEARS AWAY IS WAY EARLIER THAN WE NORMALLY SEE THAT.

BUT IS THIS THE NEW NORMAL IN POLITICS?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK PEOPLE GET TIRED.

WE JUST FINISHED AN ELECTION WHERE YOU WERE BOMBARDED NIGHTLY WITH THAT.

NOTNESS SAIR LOW FOR INDIANA, AS YOU WERE FOR THE NATIONAL RACES, PENNSYLVANIA AND GEORGIA AND ARIZONA AND THE LIKE.

SO I THINK THERE'S AN ELECTION FATIGUE, AND WE NEED TO GET THROUGH THIS SESSION BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR.

BUT THIS IS THE SAME KIND OF MERRY GO ROUND I TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, WE JUST MOVE THE SAME CANDIDATES AROUND, THEY'RE TERM LITED HERE, WELL, WE'LL MOVE THEM THERE, OR WE'LL MOVE THIS GUY THERE, OR WE'LL HAVE -- THEY'RE ALL MEDIOKE NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY IDEAS ABOUT WHAT TO DO BUT THEY GET ELECTED, THAT'S TRUE.

>> ON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, AT LEAST ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, DOES IT FEEL LIKE WE'RE STARTING TO GET A PICTURE OF EXACTLY WHAT THAT RACE IS GOING TO BE LIKE, OR ARE THERE STILL SURPRISES -- >> I THINK A FEW PEOPLE STILL MIGHT GET IN.

I HONESTLY DON'T GET THIS WHOLE STARTING OUT EARLY.

IT'S USUALLY MAY OR JUNE BEFORE PEOPLE START POPPING IN.

AND ALSO IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME BECAUSE -- AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO GET TO, THERE'S A LAW THAT YOU CAN'T RAISE MONEY DURING A BUDGET SESSION.

SO ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING IN AND THEN WHAT DO YOU DO FOR FOUR MONTHS?

>> IT DOES FEEL -- LIKE WHEN YOU'RE IN THAT, IT ALL STARTS WITH ONE PERSON GETTING IN, THEN IF YOU'RE ON THAT LIST AND YOU'RE GETTING IN, IT JUST FEELS LIKE YOU'RE BURNING TIME AND YOU'RE FALLING FURTHER AND FURTHER BEHIND, SO THAT DODEN WAS IN, HE GOT IN WELL AHEAD OF THE CYCLE LAST TIME.

ONCE YOU'RE IN CYCLE, IT'S LIKE FORGET T I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND THERE IS FATIGUE, BUT THIS IS AN ENDLESS CAMPAIGN CYCLE.

>> THEY'RE NOT EVEN SWORN IN YET.

>> I UNDERSTAND.

>> JON, ON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE -- >> WE'RE IN AN ENDLESS ELECTION CYCLE.

>> TO THAT POINT, AND ALSO I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'LL BE SEEING -- YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE MIKE BRAUN AND SUZANNE CROUCH NECESSARILY SPENDING MONEY ON ADS THIS FAR AHEAD OF TIME.

SO THE FATIGUE THAT MIGHT EXIST WOULD ONLY BE AMONG THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SUPER PLUGGED IN ANYWAY, SO THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAVE TOO BAD AN IMPACT.

>> I THINK THAT MAY BE TRUE.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN OUTSIDE THE PUBLIC'S ATTENTION WITH GRASSROOTS ORGANIZING AND WITH FUNDRAISING ONCE -- THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY NOT WITHSTANDING.

IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT WANTING TO GET INTO THIS RACE, AND I THINK WE JUST SORT OF ANSWERED THIS BY SAYING THERE WON'T BE A LOT OF ADVERTISING RIGHT NOW.

TO THE EXTENT THAT THIS BATTLE AMONG REPUBLICANS GETS BLOODY AND THEY START TEARING EACH OTHER APART, UNLIKELY, BUT IF THEY DO AND THEY REALLY START ERODING THE NUMBERS AS NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING TENDS TO DO, ONE AGAINST ANOTHER, THEN IF YOU'RE THE DEMOCRAT, YOU PROBABLY HAVE SOME LUXURY OF SITTING BACK AND SORT OF ENJOYING THE SHOW.

IF, IN FACT, IT'S JUST SIMPLE NAME I.D.

AND THEY'RE OUT THERE TRAVELING ALL 92 COUNTIES AND THEY'RE DOING THESE POSITIVE AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL SPOTS ABOUT HOW GREAT THEY ARE, THEN THAT'S A DIFFERENT MATTER.

>> IT DOESN'T MATTER, IF THEY'RE NOT ON TELEVISION, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

>> THE 2024 GOVERNOR'S RACE WILL LIKELY HAVE A RIPPLE EFFECT IN THE U.S. SENATE RACE.

WITH BRAUN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, IT OPENS UP HIS SEAT IN THE 2024 ELECTION.

THE REPUBLICAN SENATE PRIMARY, LIKE THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, IS EXPECTED TO BE CONTENTIOUS.

U.S.

REPRESENTATIVES JIM BANKS AND VICTORIA SPARTZ HAVE ALREADY PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED THAT THEY'RE CONSIDERING RUNNING FOR SENATE, AND WILL DECIDE SOMETIME EARLY IN 2023.

THERE'S SPECULATION GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB COULD RUN FOR THE SEAT.

HOLCOMB HAS SAID HE'LL HOLD OFF ON ANY ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT HIS FUTURE UNTIL AFTER THE NIKI KELLY, WHICH RACE WILL BE TIGHTER - THE GOP PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR OR THE G.O.P.

PRIMARY FOR U.S. SENATE?

>> I'M GOING TO GO WITH SENATE.

I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHY.

IT'S LIKE A GUT FEELING.

I JUST FEEL LIKE THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE PEOPLE GO FOR THE SENATE SEAT THAN THE GOVERNOR'S SEAT, AND I THINK -- AND I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHERE WE GO, BECAUSE IF ENOUGH PEOPLE SORT OF ON ONE SPECTRUM FIGHT IT OUT AMONGST THEMSELVES, THAT WOULD OPEN IT UP FOR OTHER CANDIDATES.

SO I'M GOING TO GO WITH THE SENATE.

>> TO THE POINT NIKI JUST MADE, IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE SO FAR, YOU HAVE ERIC DODEN, WHO CAN KIND OF PITCH HIMSELF AS THE POLITICAL OUTSIDER, WORKED ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

SUZANNE CROUCH OBVIOUSLY THEORETICALLY MORE OF THE HOLCOMB WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ANGLE.

MIKE BRAUN, SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THAT, A LITTLE MORE FAR RIGHT THAN HE WAS WHEN HE WAS RUNNING IN 2018, BUT ALSO CAN'T PITCH THE POLITICAL OUTSIDER ANGLE ANYMORE.

SO -- BUT IN THE SENATE RACE, IF IT'S JIM BANKS AND VICTORIA SPARTZ -- >> THERE'S A LOT OF ROOM.

>> THEY'RE PRETTY FAR TO THE RIGHT, AND THERE'S THIS HUGE GAP BETWEEN THEM, WHERE SOMEBODY COULD STEP UP AND IT MIGHT BE MULTIPLE -- >> BETWEEN THEM OR TO THE LEFT OF THEM?

>> TO THE LEFT OF THEM SUCH AS THAT EXISTS IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

I MEAN, SERIOUSLY, ARE WE GOING TO GET A LOT MORE PEOPLE -- >> NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THAT, YES, YOU HAVE THE SORT OF CARVING UP THE IDEOLOGICAL SPACE.

THAT IS A CONSIDERATION.

BUT ALSO JUST THE FACT WHEN A U.S. SENATE SEAT OPENS, LET'S LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.

IMOFGOVERNOR'S ORVETION YOU GET FOUR YEARS.

SENATE, YOU GET SIX.

YOU CAN SERVE AS MANY TERMS AS YOU GET ELECTION TO, UNLIKE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WHERE YOU'RE TERM-LIMITED TO TWO TERMS.

SO THERE'S A CERTAIN RARITY ATTACHED TO A U.S. SENATE SEAT THAT I THINK BY -- THERE'S THAT SENSE -- >> TELL THAT TO MIKE BRAUN.

>> THERE'S THAT SENSE OF -- >> WE ALWAYS SAID NO MORE THAN TWO TERMS.

>> HE'S ONLY SERVING ONE.

>> HE WOULD SAY HE WANT TO BE AN EXECUTIVE, NO THE JUST A BOARD MEMBER.

>> SOMEBODY DIDN'T TELL HIM WHAT THAT WAS LIKE BEFORE HE RAN?

>> GENERALLY I THINK HE'S AN OUTLIAR.

MOST PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY GRAVITATE TOWARD THE SENATE, AND IT'S A COVETED SPOT.

WHO WOULDN'T WANT TO?

WHEN YOU HAVE AN OPEN SEAT, YOU THINK IT'S NOW OR NEVER.

>> RIGHT, TODD YOUNG IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE IF HE DON'T WANT TO, IT WOULD CERTAINLY SEEM LIKE.

SO THIS IS YOUR SHOT, HOW BIG IS THAT RACE GOING TO GET?

>> THE ONE THING WE HAVEN'T BROUGHT UP FOR THE SENATE RACE, THE ONE NAME THAT WE HAVEN'T BROUGHT UP IS MITCH DANIELS, WHO IN A RECENT POLL THAT WAS RELEASED HAD A HUGE LEAD ON THE FIELD.

>> ON THE THEORETICAL FIELD.

>> SO I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT HE, DO RIGHT?

NEXT SUMMER MONTHS.

I HOPE HE REINSERTS HIMSELF IN THE POLITICAL CONVERSATION ANYWHERE, MUCH LESS AS A CANDIDATE, SO I THINK A LOT OF THE SIZE OF THAT RACE AND THE COST OF THAT RACE DEPENDS ON WHAT HE DOES.

>> IS THIS THE MITCH DANIELS RETURN TO POLITICS?

>> MITCH DANIELS HAS TO GET THE NOMINATION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

I'M NOT SURE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN INDIANA IS THE SAME AS IT WAS WHEN MITCH DANIELS WAS GOVERNOR.

>> IT'S NOT.

[LAUGHTER] >> CAN HE STILL WIN?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO COME OUT AND TAKE A VERY HARD, VERY RIGHT WING POSITION ON THINGS.

HE MAY NOT BE ENTIRELY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

SO HE'S PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO THINK LONG AND HARD BECAUSE GOING INTO THAT AND LOSING A PRIMARY WOULD BE PRETTY DARN EMBARRASSING FOR HIM.

>> YEAH, IN TERMS OF THAT LEGACY.

AND ALSO -- >> HE PROBABLY KNOWS THE STREET ADDRESS, THOUGH.

>> THE ONLY OTHER THING I'LL SAY ABOUT MITCH DANIELS FOR SENATE IS IT FEELS A LITTLE LIKE MIKE BRAUN, HE SPENT HIS YEAR AS AN EXECUTIVE, THAT'S WHAT MITCH DANIELS HAS BEEN, WILL BE HE HAPPY EVEN BEING POPULAR AMONG A HUNDRED?

>> HE DOES ULTIMATELY HAVE A SENSE OF OBLIGATION.

>> HE AND TODD YOUNG WOULD BE -- I MEAN -- >> TREMENDOUS.

>> HE'D HAVE TO BE BIPARTISAN.

BUT TODD YOUNG IS IN.

AND HE'S NOT RUNNING.

>> I'M NOT SURE, THOUGH, WOULD HE HAVE THE SAME SENSE, I COULD BE WRONG, OF -- I MUST HAVE THIS TO SORT OF -- >> HE ALREADY HAS A RESUME THAT KICKED THE BUTT OF ANYBODY ELSE, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY WHO MIGHT -- >> YOU'D THINK IF HE DID GET IT, IT WOULD BE MORE OF A ONE TERM KIND OF SITUATION.

>> YEAH, AT HIS AGE CERTAINLY ANYWAY.

AFTER PASSING A NEAR-TOTAL ABORTION BAN IN 2022, REPUBLICAN LEGISLATIVE LEADERS SAY THEY'LL LIKELY AVOID THE ISSUE IN THE 2023 SESSION.

ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKERS AND ADVOCATES WERE UNHAPPY WITH SOME OF THE EXCEPTIONS IN INDIANA'S NEAR-TOTAL BAN, PARTICULARLY ALLOWING ABORTIONS IN SOME CASES OF RAPE OR INCEST.

AND THEY'VE INDICATED THEY'LL WORK TO REMOVE THOSE EXCEPTIONS GOING FORWARD.

BUT HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSTON AND SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM RODRIC BRAY HAVE BOTH SAID THEY PLAN TO STAND PAT ON ABORTION IN 2023.

BRAY NOTED THAT THE INDIANA SUPREME COURT IS CURRENTLY CONSIDERING WHETHER THE BAN IS EVEN CONSTITUTIONAL.

JON SCHWANTES, IF THE STATE SUPREME COURT RULES ON THE BAN BEFORE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ENDS ITS SESSION, ARE ALL BETTS OFF?

>> I THINK ALL BETS ARE OFF ANYWAY.

THIS ISSUE IS SO POLARIZING AND THERE'S SUCH A DISPARATE SET OF VIEWS ON IT THAT EVEN THOUGH, YES, LEADERSHIP DOESN'T WANT TO ADDRESS IT, THERE WILL BE THOSE WHO FEEL COMPELLED TO ADDRESS IT, AND THERE WILL BE FOLKS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE WANTING TO SEE THAT HAPPEN SO THEN IT CAN BASICALLY STIR THE POT AND CREATE THAT SORT OF CONTRAST BETWEEN THE TWO.

WE'VE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT DEMOCRATS MAY BE IN INDIANA NOT GETTING THE FULL BENEFIT, QUOTE-UNQUOTE, BENEFIT OF SORT OF THE BACKLASH AGAINST ROE, THE DECISION OVERTURNING ROE, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN ESSENTIALLY STAYED, AND SO I'M SURE THERE IS A FACTION OF THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS THAT WOULD SAY BRING ON THOSE MORE DRACONIAN MEASURES, WE'D LOVE TO DEBATE THAT.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, ONCE WE GET PAST THIS ISSUE BEFORE THE STATE SUPREME COURT ON THE CONSTITUTIONALITY, WE STILL NEED TO DEAL WITH THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION ACT.

>> SO THERE'S TWO SHOTS TO KNOCK THIS DOWN.

BUT HERE'S THE THING THAT GETS ME ABOUT -- I GET LEADERSHIP SAYING THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH IT BUT IT RAISES THE QUESTION WHAT WILL THE MEMBERSHIP OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE WANT TO DO?

WE KNOW, WE GOT A PRETTY GOOD LOOK AT WHERE LAWMAKERS STOOD ON TAKING AWAY THE EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE AND INCEST BECAUSE THAT'S THE BIGGEST SHIFT I THINK WE'LL TRY TO SEE HAPPEN.

31% IN THE HOUSE AND 31% IN THE ?A.

NOW THE MEMBERSHIP HAS CHANGED SOMEWHAT BUT NOT THAT DRAMATICALLY.

>> IN SOME WAYS IT'S GOTTEN MORE MAD RAT.

>> A LITTLE BIT.

>> THE GUYS MOTIVATING IT ARE GONE.

>> IN THE HOUSE, CERTAINLY.

THE BILL THEY GOT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT COULD PASS BOTH CHAMBERS.

>> I THINK SO GENERALLY.

I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO SEE ANYTHING, WE'RE GOING TO SEE STUFF MORE AROUND THE PERIPHERY OF THE ISSUE.

FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE ISSUES THEY DIDN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT DURING THE SPECIAL SESSION WAS HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MEDICATION INDUCED -- ACTUALLY WHETHER HOOSIERS CAN BUY THAT MEDICATION AND BASICALLY INDUCE THEIR OWN ABORTIONS.

THAT'S AN AREA SOME OF THEIR STATES HAVE TACKLED.

WE MIGHT SEE MORE ON THE CONTRACEPTION SECTIONS.

SO I THINK IF ANYTHING WE'LL SEE STUFF KIND OF AROUND THE EDGES THAT WE DIDN'T DISCUSS IN THE SPECIAL SESSION BUT THEY WOULD LEAVE THE SORT OF BASE BAN ALONE ALONE.

>> IF THEY SAY WE'RE GOOD FOR THE 2023 SESSION, WILL THAT BE TRUE BY THE TIME THEY GET TO APRIL?

>> THE SUPREME COURT, THE LAST TIME THEY DEALT WITH THIS ON THE 18-HOUR RULE FOR THE ABORTION SPECIFICALLY SAID, WE ARE NOT DETERMINING WHETHER THERE'S A RIGHT TO ABORTION UNDER THE LIBERTY CLAUSE IN THE INDIANA STATE CONSTITUTION.

WE ARE NOT DECIDING THAT, OKAY?

>> THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO BECAUSE AT THE TIME, FEDERAL LAW -- >> THEY COULD HAVE TAKEN A PAGE OUT OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT'S BOOK, THOUGH, AND THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT ANYWAY.

BUT THEY DIDN'T DO THAT.

AND SO THERE'S A SUBSTANTIAL POSSIBILITY THAT THEY WILL FIND A RIGHT UNDER THE CONSTITUTION TO HAVE AN ABORTION.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN ALL OF THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS IS GOING TO RAISE UP IN ARMS AND THEY'RE GOING TO PROPOSE LEGISLATION.

AGAIN, AS POORLY DRAFTED AS THE STUFF THEY PASS AGAIN WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION FOR ALL THE NONSENSE THEY HAVE IN THE CODE ALREADY.

SO IT COULD BE A VERY CONTENTIOUS SESSION BECAUSE THAT COULD GET TO THE SUPREME COURT PRETTY QUICKLY.

I MEAN, IT IS GOING TO GET TO THE SUPREME COURT, CERTAINLY AHEAD OF RFRA.

THAT COMES ON THE HEELS.

SO I'M NOT SURE THAT THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS CAN STOP IT.

>> I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THE QUESTION I ASKED JON WITH YOU, WHICH IS, LET'S SAY THE SUPREME COURT RULES THAT THE ABORTION BAN WAS OKAY, THAT THERE IS NO RIGHT TO AN ABORTION IN THE LIBERTY CLAUSE OF THE INDIANA CONSTITUTION.

NOW THERE IS STILL THE RFRA CASE OUT THERE, BUT IF THE SUPREME COURT SAYS THIS IS FINE, THAT MAYBE TELLS US A LITTLE SOMETHING ABOUT THE RFRA CASE.

AT THAT POINT, ARE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS GOING TO BE ABLE TO STOP THEIR MEMBERS FROM GOING FURTHER -- >> IF THEY UPHOLD IT?

>> YES.

>> I THINK IT GIVES THEM THE PERFECT REASON TO STAY ON THE COURSE THEY WANT TO STAY ON, WHICH IS TO NOT CONSIDER FURTHER CHANGES BECAUSE THE POLICY ARGUMENT IS THAT THE SUPREME COURT IS ALLOWING THIS TO MOVE FORWARD, LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND WHERE WE NEED TO MAYBE CLEAN UP THE STATUTE IN THE FUTURE.

I THINK IF THEY DECIDE THERE IS A RIGHT OR IF THEY STOP SHORT OF SAYING THAT THERE'S A RIGHT AND THEY SAY FOR WHATEVER REASON, THIS STATUTE GOES TOO FAR, AND THEN WE EFFECTIVELY HAVE NO BAN TO ANY DEGREE IN INDIANA, I DON'T THINK IT'S -- I CAN SEE A SCENARIO WHERE THEY DO COME BACK, BUT COME BACK WITH LIKE THE KYLE WALKER PLAN, WHICH IS 15 WEEKS OR SOME OTHER MODERATE -- MODERATED LIMITATION THAT'S MORE ACCEPTABLE.

YOU KNOW, TO THE PUBLIC.

>> I THINK THAT'S MORE LIKELY THAN A MORE DRACONIAN.

NOT THAT YOU WON'T HAVE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO SEE THE MORE DRACONIAN IN THE CONGRESS BUT IF THERE'S A MULLIGAN HERE, IT WOULD BE A LESS STRINGENT -- >> OH, DREAM ON.

>> I'LL SAY THIS, TODD HUSTON WAS ASKED IF THEY WERE GOING TO TACKLE CONTRACEPTION IN THE 2023 SESSION BY INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE REPORTER LESLIE AND SHE SAID -- AND HE SAID YES.

AND THEN SHE HAD TO ASK, IN WHICH DIRECTION?

AND HE SAID, MAKING IT MORE AVAILABLE.

SO WE MIGHT SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

HE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WAS SOMETHING -- FINALLY, IT'S THAT TIME OF YEAR WHEN PEOPLE MAKE NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTIONS.

MIKE O'BRIEN, WHAT SHOULD INDIANA'S NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTION BE?

>> IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, WE HAVE HAD A HECK OF A CONTENTIOUS RUN IN THE STATEHOUSE.

I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO A NORMAL SESSION WHERE WE JUST FIGHT ABOUT NORMAL THINGS LIKE CASINOS AND ALCOHOL AND TAXES AND NONE OF THIS OTHER STUFF.

>> NEW YEAR'S RESOLUTION FOR INDIANA?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL OF INDIANA'S MAYORS WHO ARE UP FOR ELECTION NEXT YEAR URGE PEOPLE TO REGISTER AND GET OUT TO VOTE.

THERE'S BEEN SO MANY ATTACKS ON THE INTEGRITY OF THE ELECTORAL SYSTEM, I WANT TO SEE CONFIDENCE REBUILT IN THAT SYSTEM AND I WANT TO SEE THE MAYORS TAKE THE LEAD IN GETTING THAT DONE.

>> SO NICE TURNOUT IN A MUNICIPAL ELECTION YEAR WOULD BE NICE.

>> WE OUGHT TO HAVE THEM IN THE GUBERNATORIAL YEARS.

>> YEAH, MINE, I THINK WE'LL HAVE PEOPLE VOTING IN 2024, I SUSPECT.

I AGREE.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

AND THIS YEAR.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND NIKI KELLY OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

YOU CAN FIND INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW'S PODCAST AND EPISODES AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR ON THE PBS VIDEO APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

HAVE A GREAT NEW YEAR.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

"INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.