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[Music].

>> BRANDON SMITH: We look ahead to the 2044 electionspen seats for governor in the U.S. Senate, plus a bigger spotlight on Attorney General and more.

On the television studios at WFYI, it is Indiana Week in Review for the week ending December 29, 2023.

>> Indiana Week in Review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana public broadcasting stations.

>> BRANDON SMITH: This week, we look ahead to the 2024 governor's race, more specifically, the Republican primary shaping up as the most expensive in-state history.

Indiana has not had an open governor's race is 2012, and no Republican has cleared the field this time like Mike Penn State again.

(name) Has been in the race for more than two years.

He was 22.2 by (name), Lieutenant Governor Suzanne Crouch, and U.S.

Senator Mike Braun.Former Indiana Attorney General Chris Hill enter the field the summer, multiple former state commerce badge number three head to the ring.

Most of them at all already raise millions for the campaigns.

Who will emerge for the Republican nominee for governor?

It is the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel.

Democrat Ann DeLaney, Republican Mike O'Brien, Jon Schwantes, host of Indiana lawmakers and Niki Kelly commander-in-chief for the Indiana capital Chronicle.

I am Indiana public broadcasting status bureau chief, Brandon Smith.

Mike O'Brien, I think everybody seems that my part of the front on the right now, does he say that we through election day?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: So the Trump endorsement seems to carry a lot of weight.

It had a mixed result around the country, but Indiana it is still a big deal until proven otherwise.

I don't want that.

I have a track record of not loving that on the show , but Braun has got it.

What has been a little interesting is how little has changed in that primary field.

I think Braun isthe frontrunner, I think you have got kind of three guys fighting for the same vote in red chambers in every building.

You have got to stand Crouch , Lieutenant Governor Crouch was a unique Lane to her own .

The only thing a woman but having the best grassroots game of the field .

>> BRANDON SMITH: The amount of endorsement she has rolled out almost every day .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Every County in the state and those who call.

She knows the county commissioner and County chairman.

That can be a difference maker.

Then you have Curtis L. 8 to 10% is a big deal in a five we race.

It is Braun until proven otherwise is where we are at right now.

>> BRANDON SMITH: Almost all of those candidates will have a lot of money .

All that have somebody come about three or four of them have a lot of money.

Is it almost creating a scenario where the money does that matter?

>> ANN DELANEY: Money always matters.

But having said that, this is the primary more like an option.

Who can spend the most in this?

I agree, although I hate to say it with Mike, and that .

>> BRANDON SMITH: One last time for the year .

[Laughter] >> ANN DELANEY: When you have a primary were you have a number of male candidates with a lot of money and a female candidate with at least a decent amount of money, and you have a viable primary with that many people, you cannot predict the outcome.

Just ask who do you want to have the governor .

When you get to the polling place, she will come in the percentage of people who believe it is time for a woman governor that she is more than qualified .

Of course, so is Jennifer McCormick, so it is going to be an interesting kind of general election race , but having said that, I do not think that you can put it Mike Braun is the nominee.

>> BRANDON SMITH: Suzanne Crouch has started to lean into that a little bit .

There was a panel in the legislative conference recently where it was Crouch on stage with chambers and help and building and Braun was persuading the appreciate video messages, but she started her speech , opening comments with there is one thing , one obvious thing that separates me from everyone else on the stage.

It is my red glasses.

She starting to lean into this in a clever way.

Can that be a difference maker when we come down to it?

>> NIKI KELLY: Yes, I think it can.

I am not comfortable giving up election will be the nominee.

The only thing I will predict is I think you will lose a few candidates before the actual may primary.

I think limited the latest fundraising numbers in January, we will see struggles for one or two of them, and I think we might lose one or two , and maybe three go the distance.

We will see .

>> BRANDON SMITH: That will be the production ask for you than John, rather than try to guess which of these five because I agree that is difficult to do with the stage.

Of the main candidates, that is Braun, chambers, Crouch , Dorgan and Hill , to all five of them make it onto the ballot?

>> JON SCHWANTES: Maybe not.

I am glad you did it alphabetically.

I was thinking it is interesting that it might be a reverse alphabetical order in terms of how they drop out.

You can do your own assessment of who would be the first one out .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: We were sitting here in 2015 transcript 2016.

We are three Republican auditors, two major Democrat candidates for U.S. 10 and two different candidate for governor.

>> BRANDON SMITH: So things can change .

A lot can happen in Indiana election year .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: It is hard to predict.

>> BRANDON SMITH: 2024 will also feature an open race the same Exodus, but those primaries are significantly less competitive.

>> Congressman Jim Banks seem to clear the Republican feeling of the race this year , former Governor Mitch Daniels brushed off of his tenure at Purdue President up not to run.

But thanks to my primary point after all.

- - Is a court over the bow axis law or the initial positive lymphoma Marion County judge.

On the Democratic side, Keith Potts recently ended his campaign meaning longtime alcohol - - remaining candidates in the Kennedy primary .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Ann DeLaney, a surprise at how banks almost entirely cleared the field for an open Tennessee that Indian is likely critical Republican ?

>> ANN DELANEY: He is Odyssey represented the right wing of the Republic and party , there is no dispute about thate is an election denier , he is for an abortion ban, he is against LGBT people.

It is a litany of things.

Mark, hopefully to be our nominee without questions , so it is with to be an interesting test position of a moderate versus crazy on the Republican side.

He will be well-funded and he has Trump , if Trump is not in jail at the time the next election comes around .

>> BRANDON SMITH: I think that is unlikely.

Are you surprised at how Jim Banks Primus cleared the field?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Not really, no one is planning for an alternative to Jim Banks.

Nobody the party is looking for an alternative to Jim Banks.

He had a great - - working the state.

>> ANN DELANEY: How about his folks?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: That is your job, not mine.

[Laughter].

It is unusual to have issuing in this kind of situation , but it is reflective of the work he has done inside of the parties and the support he asked.

>> BRANDON SMITH: There was an expectation that wants Braun to out of the running for reelection to move over to the governor's race.

In 2024, you have two open seats in a state where if you are a Republican , you can largely campout those seats at least in the Senate for pretty much as long as you want.

Todd Young seems to be in it for the long haul, we said that from day one, he wants to follow and that Richard Lugar mold.

I do not know what Jim banks aspirations are and how we want to stay in the Senate but are you surprised that we do not have a competitive Senate primary on either side?

>> JON SCHWANTES: I am for the reason that you articulate.

It is an opportunity, not an appointment, but it is a lifetime election effectively, you are right.

That would have made it attractive , I would've thought, going to the store candidates.

As someone who enjoys politics and thinks that there is benefit in the rough and tumble aspects of exchanges of ideas and the growing of candidates, I would've enjoyed seeing Mitch Daniels, that would've been an interesting clash .

That is the interesting part in that race, would've been the primary contest.

It does show , at least we think we know what the Republican Party is right now.

It seems to be the populism into the right side where Jim Banks isI don't know if that is permanent attribute about party in the state or if it is at all shifting or modifying.

You have probably seen data Mike, and how many of those individuals came off of the silence for Trump seven years ago .

They will not remain engaged difficulty summerlike Trump at the top of the tickets.

There are a lot of unknown , it will be enjoyable to see how that shakes out.

>> BRANDON SMITH: On the last episode of the show, we pick our winners for 2023.

In many ways, is it Jim Banks?

>> NIKI KELLY: Yeah, he is in perfect prime position.

He has support in the state, nationally.

He has got money.

He is even kind of got , John Ross is giving him a reason to get media in there.

He has got it made .

I do think one of the reasons he has it made, and the reason we did not go for it is the overall dysfunctional Congress the last couple of cycles I think escaping people away.

If you do not see a way in which you can make a difference , why would you put up with that?

>> BRANDON SMITH: That is a really good point, I have not thought of that.

While there will be a lot of tension on the top ticket races we just talked about in 2024, there could be a better than usual spotlight on the race for Indiana Attorney General.

Republican incumbent Todd repeated as - - publicly reprimanded at by the public Indiana Supreme Court for his handling of investigation Doctor Kayla Bernard and this is a second investigation for the state attorney disciplinary over his reaction to the reprimanded destiny as well has already announced her candidacy trying to unseat Rokita.

Wells previously lost the 2020 race for Indiana Secretary of state against Diego morales, another controversial candidate by 14 points.

>> .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Niki Kelly, could this be the most competitive general election race next year?

>> NIKI KELLY: It should be .

There are real issues at hand.

Performance issues, misconduct issues, whether the state should be getting involved in every single national issue going on .

It should be a great race, and I hope that voters pay attention .

There is an outside possibility that - - some sort of good candidate.

It could take Rokita out, but that is probably pretty slim .

>> BRANDON SMITH: If voters pay attention to the biggest qualifier there and rightly so.

Helping that along will be money, do think there will be significant money in that race?

Todd Rokita already has quite a bit from a long political career.

Do you think destiny Wells is a Democrat can raise enough money to make this competitive?

>> JON SCHWANTES: Even if you have a lot of baggage, if there is no mechanism for bringing that baggage in front and do it repeatedly I should say, that is tough and it takes a lot of money.

Keep in mind, that is not the only race.

You set this up, that is a race among many.

Will there be enough oxygen in the room?

Even if you had a bottomless well in terms of campaign finances, can you buy enough advertising to move the needle ?

The challenge she faces, as long as we just in going to the polling place , either or not they flip switches anymore , but the equivalent, as long as you can tap on one place on the screen and not make your fingers exercise a little bit and go race by race , that gives a huge advantage in the current climate to Republican candidates .

>> BRANDON SMITH: We just talked about the Senate race.

I think there is an exposition of the governor's race to be somewhat competitive, surly depending on who the Republican candidate is.

I do not think there is the same expectation in the Senate raceAs much as those races further up the ticket a lot of the oxygen in the money, but that actually receive lack of competitiveness help destiny Wells if she is trying to raise money?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: It is noisy, is going to be a noisy fall .

I'm willing to be convinced, for this feel like we were trying to spin ourselves convincing ourselves that Diego was going to lose and he won by 15 .

That race was in a vacuum, there was nothing to pay attention to other than that race, and he won by 15 points .

>> BRANDON SMITH: There will be a lot of people going to the polls .

>> ANN DELANEY: And the difference was money.

Where message got out, she won big.

That is the challenge this time around, but this race can attract national money given is absolutely appalling performance so fare's a disgrace to the state of Indiana, and that is apparent to a lot of people.

She faces a challenge to raise the money, but if she raises the money and tells voters that Todd Rokita is a disgrace to Indiana, I think she wins .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I'm glad you got to talk about Todd Rokita one last time .

>> ANN DELANEY: He is the gift that keeps on giving, asked the disciplinary commission .

>> BRANDON SMITH: The 2024 presidential race is heading for the rematch between resident Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump .

Byron appears rather easy path towards renomination even though - - struggling poll numbers, bully concerns about inflation and worries about his age.

The Republican primary field is much broader and included for a few months, former Vice President and Indiana Governor Mike pence.

None of those candidates is anywhere close to Trump in the polls, even as the former president faces criminal charges in state and federal courtsJon Schwantes, we struggle in Indiana more than any other state to give order to connect the polls.

It's going to be a problem?

Will there be voter fatigue if at the very top of the ticket it is those two again?

>> JON SCHWANTES: I don't know if it's chronic fatigue syndrome that affects Hoosier voters but we are always at the bottom .

>> ANN DELANEY: We make it difficult for people to vote in this state deliberately .

>> JON SCHWANTES: There are ways to vote, but a lot of Hoosiers do not take advantage of those opportunities.

You are right, the deck may be shacked stats, but their shared responsibility here that is a frustration.

Now, Donald Trump is interesting.

He sort of combats the notion of fatigue.

By that I mean, he is such a crazed cult like following here and elsewhere, that he would inject some kind of speed, Adderall, math , figuratively speaking, into the blood vessels of his backers.

>> BRANDON SMITH: We certainly saw that in 2016 .

>> JON SCHWANTES: I am not a physician and try to administer healthcare .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I think you called primary voters methods.

[Laughter] >> BRANDON SMITH: I don't think he was calling about I don't know that - - >> JON SCHWANTES: Not only does he energize his base of voters but like anyone else, he mobilizes Democrats and people who were alarmed by the prospect and we get off their couches and maybe go and actually show up to the polls in a way they might not if it were somebody that they were not find as inherently offensive.

It is dispiriting that we can mobilize people on both sides of the aisle for different reasons > BRANDON SMITH: But after 2015, how many years is that?Eight years, going to be nine years by the time you get to the general election , after nine years of Donald Trump, whether you like him, love him or hate him, and Joe Biden and think is introducing anybody , by a voter are you tired of it all?

>> NIKI KELLY: There is no race in my life that I am less excited about than the Trump Biden rematch and I cannot be the only one.

I am over it and I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't want to listen to everything that comes out of frankly, both of them have trouble with misremembering or telling lies or however you want to say it.

Exaggerating things.

pMy only hope is that someone will break through to bring a little sanity to the top of the ticket .

>> BRANDON SMITH: I'm not want to make a lot of predictions but I can safely predict that will happen.

If you're anyone not at the top of the ticket, anyone from U.S. Senate governor, AG, statehouse, whatever, do you try your best to ignore the top of the ticket is what is humanly possible in Indiana?

>> ANN DELANEY: You are not going to get that with banks or Braun if he is the nominee, you will be embracing that.

The problem is, people get motivated by a lot of different things.

Joe Biden has been a darn good job and by the way, does not live, unlike Donald Trump .

>> NIKI KELLY: I said exaggerates .

>> ANN DELANEY: You also said why .

>> NIKI KELLY: I gave three different examples of things both of them do .

>> ANN DELANEY: The problem is for a lot of us looking at the prospect of Donald Trump in the White House for four more years is a big motivating factor.

I am not alone.

I talked to people of interest all the time who have no interest in politics and they say how can they possibly nominate this boome may become to Decatur on day one I think there will be the turnout necessary because what is at stake frankly is the future of democracy in this country .

>> BRANDON SMITH: We have seen in 2016 and 2020, 2016 there were expeditions that may be John Gray could run the governor's race .

In 2020 there was an expectation with the backlash against Trump it would help Democrats.

It did not materialize in Indiana .

>> JON SCHWANTES: It was close and the governor's race for a little while .

>> BRANDON SMITH: If you are a Democrat and Indiana, are you worried that once again that Donald Trump and the coattails of Donald Trump .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: There is no evidence to suggest that you should not be worried.

Republicans are getting double-digit winds out of all these races and they have since 2016.

I do think , a poll came out this week That I Trump beating biting - - there is this watershed love of Joe Biden , is motivated by fear of the alternative .

Both parties again are going to nominate the only one that could get beat by other than one that can clearly wind which is what we did in 2016 .

>> JON SCHWANTES: You think the ones that are unhappy will vote providing all this it at home?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Obviously, if you look at the one: of course.

If you take Trump out of it, the Republicans are run by 20 points nationally, that is unheard of .

>> ANN DELANEY: But you will nominate Nikki Haley.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I understand .

>> BRANDON SMITH: I want to ask about the statehouse races.

Respondent 2022 election come after round of reducing, Senate Republicans picked up a cecum house publicans lost a seat.

Do you see a swing of more than two seats in either direction in either chamber after 2024 >> JON SCHWANTES: Not more than two probably.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Form nominate the right people and those marginal districts .

>> JON SCHWANTES: Unless, who knows what happens at the federal level or in the economy, but everything is chugging along more or less as it is now, I think in the margins we will see different .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Do you think house Democrats , they would need three or four to break the super majority, is there any chance of that?

>> NIKI KELLY: Probably not.

They are 8 to 10 competitive district statewide .

The Republicans are always going to outspend Democrats too .

>> BRANDON SMITH: We have started to see if you like to later retirements from the donor counties are Indianapolis.

We saw couple in Carmel, Hamilton, counties.

We saw state Senator John Crane announced that he is not running for another term.

There have been talks for years now that Democrats will make inroads in the donor counties are Indianapolis , and we haven't seen a lot of it.

>> ANN DELANEY: .24 Is going to happen .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Why 2024?

>> ANN DELANEY: I think we will be the super majority, I really do.

We have candidates in districts that are maybe not exactly 50-50, but they are trending that way and they are working hard and going door-to-door.

With the president election , I think there is a distinct possibility we break the super majority in the house .

>> The one competitive race is the new district vacated by Jeff Ellington south of Bloomington in which Dave Hall, the Republican, only one my less than 100 votes.

That is another one that certainly a lot of eyes will be on.

Do you feel like you will be status quo at the statehouse?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: As long as we nominate the right guys.

Denny Lopez is a great candidate .

Brett Clark .

>> NIKI KELLY: I am sure you meant guys and gals .

>> ANN DELANEY: No we didn't.

[Laughter] >> BRANDON SMITH: Finally, is that time of the year when people make New Year's resolutions.

Mike O'Brien, which Indiana's New Year's resolution be?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I hope we heed Todd Houston's call to have a light session.

Of the politics to figure out, let's give it out of the session .

>> ANN DELANEY: I wish the legislator would leave the cultural issues alone.

Leave women's bodies alone .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I would not predict that for the 2024 session .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Niki Kelly, do you have a New Year's resolution for Indiana?

>> NIKI KELLY: I hope we get back to focusing more on issues that affect Hoosiers more than these esoteric fights at the top .

>> JON SCHWANTES: Cut back on sweets and go to the gym every day.

[Laughter].

>> NIKI KELLY: For the state?

>> JON SCHWANTES: Look at our healthcare, that's probably not bad .

>> BRANDON SMITH: I am going to be a sane election cycle.

I want to be competitive and interesting .

I would like Indiana to help me stay sane for the 2024 elections .

>> ANN DELANEY: I'm sure everyone will sign up for that goal .

>> BRANDON SMITH: I hope so.

That is Indiana Week in Review for this week.

Our panel is a Democrat Ann DeLaney, Republican Mike O'Brien, Jon Schwantes and Indiana lawmakers and Niki Kelly of the Indiana capital Chronicle.

You can find Indiana Week in Review's podcast and episodes at WFYI.org/IWIR , or on the PBS video app.

I am Brandon Smith of Indiana public broadcasting.

Join us next time, because a lot can happen in Indiana week.

>> The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week in Review is a WFYI production in association with