>> WE LOOK BACK AT 2022.

AN ABORTION BAN.

ELECTIONS.

PLUS, INFLATION AND MORE.

FROM THE TELEVISION STUDIOS AT WFYI, IT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING DECEMBER 23, 2022.

>> "INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

>> THIS WEEK, WE LOOK BACK THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT IN ABORTION RIGHTS IN 50 YEARS.

A LEAK OF A SUPREME COURT OPINION IN MAY TELEGRAPHED THE COURT'S ULTIMATE MOVE - ALLOWING STATES TO COMPLETELY BAN ALL ACCESS TO ABORTION, WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

INDIANA LAWMAKERS CAME INTO A SPECIAL SESSION IN LATE JULY, BECOMING THE FIRST STATE TO PASS A NEW ABORTION BAN IN THE WAKE OF THE SCOTUS DECISION.

THE BAN DIDN'T GO ALL THE WAY - LAWMAKERS ALLOW EXCEPTIONS FOR CASES WHERE THE LIFE OR SERIOUS HEALTH OF THE PREGNANT PERSON IS AT RISK.•IN SOME CASES OF FATAL FETAL ANOMALIES.•AND IN SOME CASES OF RAPE OR INCEST.

BUT THAT BAN ONLY TOOK EFFECT FOR A FEW DAYS BEFORE A COUNTY JUDGE HALTED THE MEASURE IN THE FIRST OF TWO LAWSUITS CHALLENGING THE LAW.

THAT INITIAL LAWSUIT IS SET FOR A STATE SUPREME COURT HEARING IN JANUARY.

WHAT HAS THE FALLOUT BEEN FROM INDIANA'S NEAR-TOTAL ABORTION BAN?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY, REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN, JON SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS AND NIKI KELLY, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE BUREAU CHIEF BRANDON SMITH.

ANN DELANEY, CAN WE JUDGE THE BAN BEFORE WE FIND OUT HOW THE INDIANA SUPREME COURT RULES ON THE LAWSUITS?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I MEAN, I THINK WE HAD A MODERATE AND VERY MODERATE AMOUNT OF FALLOUT ON THE LAST ELECTION, BUT REPUBLICANS HAVEN'T FELT IT YET BECAUSE OF THE BAN -- THE INJUNCTIONS THAT WERE AGAINST ENFORCING THAT.

IF THE SUPREME COURT UPHOLDS THE LAW, WHICH IS A BIG "IF," BUT IF IT UPHOLDS THE LAW, I THINK THE FALLOUT FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THE 2024 ELECTION WILL BE OVERWHELMING, BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE THE NEAR TOTAL BAN, WHICH IS WHAT THIS IS.

IT'S VERY POORLY THOUGHT OUT LEGISLATION.

IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT ALL THE OTHER CRAZY THINGS THEY'VE PASSED OVER THE YEARS.

SO ALL OF THESE BARRIERS TO SEEKING HEALTHCARE CHOICES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE, EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE NARROWED THE TIME FRAME THAT IT CAN BE EXERCISED.

SO I THINK THE FALLOUT FROM THAT WILL BE PRONOUNCED IF THE SUPREME COURT SAYS THAT THERE'S NO RIGHT UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OR UNDER RFRA FOR ABORTION.

>> TO ANN'S POINT, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE SAW A HUGE IMPACT ON THE INDIANA ELECTION WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTION, PARTLY BECAUSE I THINK, I AGREE, THAT THE LAW WASN'T IN EFFECT FOR MOST OF THE TIME.

I THINK IT WENT INTO EFFECT FOR ABOUT FOUR DAYS.

>> LIKE A WEEK, YEAH.

>> BUT WE ALSO HAVEN'T SEEN A PRIMARY ELECTION OBVIOUSLY SINCE THAT BAN TOOK EFFECT AND THEN WAS HALTED, WHICH WOULD COME UP IN MAY OF 2024, ON A STATE-WIDE LEVEL AND AT THE STATE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL.

DO YOU THINK THAT EVENTUALLY, HOWEVER THIS SHAKES OUT, DO YOU THINK EVENTUALLY WE SEE MORE OF AN IMPACT ON OUR ELECTIONS?

>> I DON'T.

2024 IS A LONG TIME FROM NOW AND I THINK IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A POLITICAL FALLOUT REGARDLESS -- THE FACT THEY WENT INTO SPECIAL SESSION IMMEDIATELY, PUT A -- YOU KNOW, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES A BAN IN PLACE WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A REACTION TO THAT POLITICALLY.

AND THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THIS ELECTION AND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN, MAYBE HERE OR THERE.

WE DID HAVE AN ELECTION ON THIS.

I MEAN, IN PART, WHAT MOTIVATED ALL OF THESE PRIMARIES, PARTICULARLY AMONGST HOUSE REPUBLICANS FROM THE RIGHT, WAS THEIR RELUCTANCE TO PUT A TRIGGER -- AND ABORTION BAN TRIGGER LAW IN PLACE BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT ACTED.

AND THAT MOTIVATED THE FAR RIGHT TO GO AND CHALLENGE ONE OF THE MOST ACTIVE PRIMARY SEASONS WE'VE HAD, TO GO CHALLENGE THOSE PEOPLE FROM THE RIGHT.

>> AND THEY WERE MOSTLY NOT SUCCESSFUL.

>> AND THEY WERE MOSTLY UNSUCCESSFUL.

ALL THE INCUMBENTS WHO DECIDED WHO EITHER DIDN'T WANT TO OR CERTAINLY JUST DIDN'T PUT A TRIGGER LAW INTO EFFECT WON, WON RE-ELECTION.

SO IT ALSO STRUCK ME HOW FAST THIS ALL COOLED OFF.

WE WERE IN THE SPECIAL SESSION, THERE WERE PROTESTS.

NOW WE'VE GOT -- NOW WE'RE HEARING ALL THESE THINGS, THAT MAYBE WE LOSE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE, MAYBE WE LOSE ALL THESE DONUT COUNTY REPUBLICANS, BECKY CASH AND OTHERS, HAMILTON COUNTY, ALL THESE GUYS THAT WERE SUPPOSEDLY AT RISK OF GOING DOWN.

IT WAS JUST NOTHING HAPPENED.

THE REPUBLICANS JUST GOT RE-ELECTED.

>> THOSE RACES -- >> I THINK VICTORIA GARCIA -- >> THERE WERE SOME AND IT WASN'T AS PRONOUNCED AS IT WILL BE WHEN ALL OF YOUR STATE-WIDE CANDIDATES IN 2024 ARE GOING TO TAKE THE ABSOLUTE ABORTION PLEDGE.

THAT'S GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

>> YOU ARE SURPRISED WE AT ANY TIME SEEMINGLY SEE MORE OF AN ABORTION IMPACT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IN THIS YEAR'S ELECTION, GENERAL ELECTION?

>> NOT SO MUCH, BECAUSE AS MIKE SUGGESTED, IT HAS COOLED, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE REVERTED TO THE STATUS QUO BECAUSE OF THE COURT INJUNCTIONS.

AND SO PEOPLE I THINK WERE EXPECTED A LOT OF THE ELECTORATE TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE THESE DECISIONS IN SORT OF A PHILOSOPHICAL JUST THEORETICAL SENSE.

I THINK VOTERS IN ANY ENDEAVOR, WHETHER IT'S A TAX INCREASE THAT TAKES EFFECT IN A YEAR OR A SALES TAX INCREASE IN TWO YEARS, IT'S WHEN YOU ACTUALLY START SEEING, YOU KNOW, EXTRA DOLLARS COMING OUT OF YOUR WALLET AT THE GAS PUMP OR AT THE GROCERY STORE IN THAT EXAMPLE.

THAT'S WHEN YOU REBEL AND WHEN YOU SAY, HEY, SOMETHING IS GOING ON HERE.

I THINK BECAUSE WE REVERTED TO THE STATUS QUO, THERE'S A TEMPTATION TO ASSUME, WELL, THIS WAS JUST A TEMPEST.

BUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS, IF, IN FACT, THE INDIANA SUPREME COURT CLEARS, OPENS THE DOOR TO THE RESUMPTION OF THE STATUTE THAT WAS ENACTED DURING THE SPECIAL SESSION, I THINK WE'LL SEE ANY NUMBER OF STORIES, NEWS COVERAGE, EVERY TIME A WOMAN SADLY PERISHES, PERHAPS UNNECESSARILY, OR THERE'S ANOTHER TYPE OF SITUATION LIKE THE WIDELY DISCUSSED 10-YEAR-OLD WHO CAME FROM OHIO TO INDIANA TO GET IT.

THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO COME UP.

I MEAN, IT'S INEVITABLE.

SO EVERY TIME THOSE COME UP, IT STRIKES PERHAPS NOT ONLY CLOSER TO HOME FOR THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE DIRECTLY INVOLVED, BUT FOR THEIR FRIENDS, THEIR NEIGHBORS, THEIR COMMUNITY MEMBERS, THAT'S WHEN I THINK IT RESONATES.

>> AND WHILE WE DIDN'T SEEMINGLY SEE MUCH OF AN IMPACT HERE IN INDIANA, I THINK NATIONWIDE, WE CAN ARGUE WE CERTAINLY DID, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, I THINK THERE WERE SOME CASES THAT WE SAW MORE NATIONALLY, MAYBE IN MORE DIVIDED STATES THAN INDIANA, WHICH IS PREDOMINANTLY REPUBLICAN, SO YOU ARE GOING TO SEE LESS OF AN IMPACT HERE.

WAY LESS THAN I THOUGHT.

YOU KNOW, I GUESS I FELL FOR A LOT OF THE ANGER AND THE NOISE AND THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD RESULT IN, YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE LOSING THEIR SEATS, BUT MAYBE ONE OR TWO.

>> IT'S DIFFERENT WHEN THE SECRETARY OF STATE IS THE TOP OF THE RACE.

WHEN IT'S SENATE AND IT'S GOVERNOR AND IT COMES DOWN TO THE PEOPLE -- >> STATEWIDE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, SPEAKING OF ELECTIONS, SECURED COMFORTABLE VICTORIES IN THIS YEAR'S RACES.

REPUBLICAN SENATOR TODD YOUNG COASTED TO A 20-POINT RE-ELECTION VICTORY OVER DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGER TOM MCDERMOTT AND LIBERTARIAN JAMES SCENIAK.

YOUNG'S FELLOW REPUBLICANS ON THE STATEWIDE TICKET ALSO WON EASILY - TREASURER CANDIDATE DANIEL ELLIOTT, INCUMBENT STATE AUDITOR TERA KLUTZ AND CONTROVERSIAL SECRETARY OF STATE NOMINEE DIEGO MORALES.

IN CONGRESS, THE INDIANA DELEGATION MAINTAINED ITS STATUS QUO - EVERY INCUMBENT WON, WHILE REPUBLICAN RUDY YAKYM WON IN THE 2ND DISTRICT TO SUCCEED ACKIE WALORSKI, WHO TRAGICALLY DIED EARLIER IN THE YEAR.

STATEHOUSE DEMOCRATS FARED SLIGHTLY BETTER.

THOUGHT DEMS LOST A SEAT IN THE STATE SENATE, THEY GAINED A SEAT UNDER NEW, REPUBLICAN-DRAW LEGISLATIVE MAPS IN THE HOUSE.

>> WE KIND OF TALKED TO THIS AS IT RELATES TO ABORTION, BUT DID THE 2022 ELECTIONS GO ABOUT HOW YOU THOUGHT THEY WOULD, MIKE?

>> IN THE END, YEAH.

BUT I KIND OF BAKED UP SCENARIOS IN MY HEAD WHERE -- AND AGAIN, WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, BECAUSE OF ABORTION, WHICH I LIKENED A LITTLE BIT TO HEALTHCARE REFORM BACK IN 2008, BARACK OBAMA GETS ELECTED IN 2008, PASSES HEALTHCARE REFORM, AND INDIANA IS A GREAT EXAMPLE, WE WIN HUGE REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES THAT HAVE NOT GIVEN WAY IN THE LAST 12 YEARS SINCE WE WON, AND THERE ARE ISSUES LIKE THAT.

GENERATIONALLY OR, YOU KNOW, FROM TIME TO TIME THAT FORCE VOTERS TO CHANGE WHO THEY ARE OR HOW THEY'RE VOTING, AND I THOUGHT ABORTION MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN '24.

MAYBE IT'S STILL TOP OF MIND, BUT YOU KNOW, I DID THINK, OKAY, MAYBE THIS IS THE ISSUE THAT'S THE CATALYST FOR WHAT WE CONTINUALLY HEAR ABOUT, THAT IT'S THE SUBURBAN MODERATES, THE EDUCATED WOMEN.

THEY'RE ALL ON THE BUBBLE ANYWAY, AND SOMETHING IS GOING TO PUSH THEM TO VOTE DEMOCRAT, JUST LIKE HEALTHCARE REFORM PUSHED A CENTURY, A GENERATION OF DEMOCRATS IN SOUTHERN INDIANA VOTE REPUBLICAN AND THEY'VE NOT CHANGED BACK.

SO I THOUGHT THAT MIGHT HAPPEN AND IT JUST -- I THINK ONCE WE GOT OUT OF THE SPECIAL SESSION, AGAIN, IT FELT LIKE IT JUST COOLED DOWN FAST.

AND I STOPPED KIND OF BUYING INTO WHAT YOU JUST SUGGESTED, WHICH IS -- >> AND AFTER THREE MONTHS ONLY -- >> WE KIND OF TWISTED OURSELVES IN A KNOT TRYING TO COME UP WITH THE WAY REPUBLICANS AREN'T GOING TO WIN THIS YEAR.

USUALLY THE -- THE AREAS THAT WERE VOTING EARLY THAT WERE REPUBLICAN AREAS DELIVERED THE ELECTION LIKE THEY HAVE FOR SOME TIME NOW.

>> YEAH, OBVIOUSLY THEY DIDN'T GO THE WAY DEMOCRATS WANTED THEM TO GO HERE, BUT DID THEY GO ABOUT HOW YOU ULTIMATELY THOUGHT THEY WOULD?

>> I THOUGHT WE'D PICK UP MORE LEGISLATIVE SEATS, BUT THE IMPACT OF GERRYMANDERING, WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 2008 ELECTION MORE SIGNIFICANTLY THAN OBAMACARE IS THE REDISTRICTING JOB THE REPUBLICANS DID.

YOU WON THE SUPERMAJORITY ON THE REPUBLICAN MAPS.

>> THAT'S BECAUSE ALL THESE VOTERS CHANGED THEIR -- >> NO, IT'S ALSO BECAUSE YOU REDISTRICTED SO WELL, AS A MATTER OF FACT, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

AND YOU KNOW, THE IRONY OF THAT NOW IS HOW MUCH OBAMACARE IS NO LONGER EVEN TALKED ABOUT.

AND WE HAVE ALL THESE ADS AND ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE SIGNED UP FOR OBAMACARE, AND ON TELEVISION, TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY HAD INSURANCE FOR THE FIRST TIME, THANKS TO BARACK OBAMA.

>> IN A VERY POSITIVE LIGHT.

>> SORT OF THE SAME QUESTION I ASKED YOU, NIKI, ON THE LAST ONE WHICH IS I THINK ELECTIONS HERE IN INDIANA SEEMED TO ROUGHLY GO THE WAY WE THOUGHT THEY WOULD, BUT NATIONALLY, WE WERE EXPECTING A REPUBLICAN WAVE AND IT JUST DIDN'T MATERIALIZE.

>> YEAH, AND I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, REPUBLICANS STILL MADE SOME STRIDES NATIONALLY IN CONGRESS, BUT NOT AT ALL THE MARGINS THEY WERE HOPING FOR.

SO -- >> AND LOST A SEAT IN THE SENATE.

>> THAT HAS LED TO OBVIOUSLY SOME DISCUSSION WITHIN THE NATIONAL PARTY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DO WE EMBRACE TRUMP AGAIN, DO WE, YOU KNOW, LOOK FOR A DIFFERENT STANDARD BEARER BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO GET KIND OF TIRED OF THAT.

I WILL NOTE THAT THERE WAS AN INTERESTING POLL PUT OUT YESTERDAY WHERE APPARENTLY HOOSIERS AREN'T TIRED IT BECAUSE THEY FAVORED TRUMP AS THE TOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE ABOVE EVEN THEIR OWN MIKE PENCE.

>> SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE THEIR OWN MIKE PENCE.

TO THAT END, JON, THERE IS THIS DISCUSSION HAPPENING AT THE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN LEVEL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE WE FOLLOWING, WHO DO WE ALIGN OURSELVES WITH BETWEEN IT SEEMS AT THIS POINT DONALD TRUMP AND RON DESANE TIS.

DESANTIS.

HERE IN INDIANA, DO YOU KIND OF SAY I DON'T KNOW, THE STA STUS QUO IS WORKING FOR US, EVERYBODY.

>> I THINK THERE'S ALWAYS A RELUCTANCE TO JUMP ON ANY BAND BANDWAGON PREMATURELY.

THE NAME OF THE GAME IS LEAVING YOUR OPTIONS OPEN UNTIL PUSH COMES TO SHOVE AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION.

ANY TIME YOU MAKE A DECISION, YOU'RE GOING TO ALIENATE THE PEOPLE WHO THINK DONALD TRUMP IS HORRIFIC AND THOSE -- THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN HIS PARTY WHO APPARENTLY THINK HE'S JUST A GREAT THING.

JUST FINE.

>> THE -- OF THE PARTY DOESN'T MAKE FOR A NOMINEE THAT CAN WIN OVERWHELMINGLY IN INDIANA EITHER.

EVEN THOUGH THIS IS A REPUBLICAN STATE.

AND WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHETHER HE'S GOING TO BE INDICTED BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.

>> THAT'S TRUE, AND YOU MAY GET -- AND WE TALK ABOUT THE SUBURBAN EDUCATED WOMEN, THE SAME DEMOGRAPHIC GROUPS THAT APPARENTLY DIDN'T MATERIALIZE OR WEREN'T MOTIVATED TO GO AND VOTE THE WAY WE THOUGHT THEY WOULD.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS DISAFFECTION PERHAPS AMONG SOME OF THOSE GROUPS WITH DONALD TRUMP.

SO ALL IT TAKES IS FOR GROUPS LIKE THAT TO, NEVER MIND SWITCHING PARTIES, JUST TO STAY HOME.

AND THAT COULD HAVE A DRAMATIC EFFECT POTENTIALLY ON A GENERAL ELECTION.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, PERHAPS THE MOST CONTENTIOUS RACE IN INDIANA THIS YEAR WAS FOR SECRETARY OF STATE.

A SENTENCE WE DON'T SAY VERY OFTEN.

REPUBLICAN DIEGO MORALES, DEMOCRAT DESTINY WELLS AND LIBERTARIAN JEFF MAURER.

MORALES RODE AN ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT WAVE AT THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONVENTION TO OUST INCUMBENT HOLLI SULLIVAN, WHO HAD BEEN APPOINTED AS SECRETARY OF STATE LAST YEAR.

THE FIRST HISPANIC ELECTED STATEWIDE OFFICIAL OVERCAME CONSIDERABLE CONTROVERSY DURING THE CAMPAIGN: HE PUSHED THE BIG LIE ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION'S LEGITIMACY AND PROPOSED MORE RESTRICTIONS ON EARLY VOTING - BOTH POSITIONS HE THEN REVERSED DURING THE RACE.

THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS MILITARY RECORD.

HE'D BEEN FIRED FROM THE OFFICE HE NOW LEADS AT LEAST ONCE.

AND THERE WERE ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT AND POTENTIAL VOTER FRAUD.

JON SCHWANTES, DID 2022 PROVE s THAT, AT LEAST FOR NOW, DEMOCRATS CAN'T GET ELECTED IN THE STATE ANYMORE?

>> THE KEY IS AT LEAST RIGHT NOW.

I'VE ATTENDED FUNERALS FOR ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER ONLY TO SEE AN AMAZING RESURRECTION.

AGAIN WE'VE TALKED BEFORE ON THIS SHOW, INDIANA AT THE GUBERNATORIAL LEVEL SEEMS TO BE ABOUT A 20-YEAR CYCLE.

THAT'S WHAT WE SAW WITH ED WHITCOMB, OTIS BOWEN, THEN A SIMILAR PERIOD FOR DEMOCRATS, IT WILL BE 20 YEARS, SO I DO THINK THERE IS A SORT OF A CYCLICAL ASPECT TO THIS.

NOW, MIKE IS RIGHT, HE OFTEN POINTS OUT SORT OF THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE STATE WHERE THE DEMOCRATS THAT WERE REPRESENTED LIKE THE FORMER SPEAKER, MILE PHILLIPS FROM BOONEVILLE, AND JOHN GRIGG TOO, TWO SPEAKERS I COULD POINT TO, SO THERE ARE THOSE WHO PERHAPS THERE'S BEEN A REALIGNMENT BUT I WOULD HESITATE TO WRITE OFF THE PARTY.

AND PERHAPS IF THERE IS THIS DISAFFECTION I MENTIONED AND PEOPLE LOSE ENTHUSIASM AND THERE IS SOME SORT OF SPLIT, MAYBE THAT'S AN OVERLY DRAMATIC WORD BUT SOME SORT OF FRICTION TO THE DEGREE WE HAVEN'T SEEN IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THEN ALL BETTS ARE OFF.

>> SUZANNE MENTIONED THE SAME THING WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, SHE SAID WE'VE NEVER HAD ONE PARTY CONTROL THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN MORE THAN 20 YEARS IN THE HISTORY OF THIS STATE AND WE'RE THE A 20 YEARS IN 2024.

THAT WAS HER PITCH TO SAY WE NEED A DIFFERENT KIND OF CANDIDATE AND OBVIOUSLY SHE BELIEVES SHE'S THAT CANDIDATE.

BUT DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY TRUTH TO THAT, LIKE HISTORICALLY SPEAKING, REPUBLICANS NEED TO START WATCHING OUT BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT THE TIME THE PENDULUM HAS STARTED TO SWING?

>> OBVIOUSLY.

I MEAN, IT'S OBVIOUSLY HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, AND PENDULUMS ALWAYS GO BACK AND FORTH ON THIS.

HAVING LOOKED AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS, THOUGH, AND HOW THESE ARE GOING, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING YET THAT WILL SHOW THAT THAT WOULD SWITCH BACK.

BUT 2024 IS VERY FAR AWAY, TOO.

SO THERE'S PLENTY OF STUFF THAT COULD GO ON, BUT I DON'T SEE THE CRACK IN THE FOUNDATION YET.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT INDIANA DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIRMAN MIKE SCHMOLE.

SINCE HE CAME INTO LEADERSHIP IN THE PARTY HERE, ONE OF THE THINGS HE'S MADE A BIG DEAL OUT OF IS THESE STATEWIDE TOURS ON A VARIETY OF ISSUES, TRYING TO TO TAUT WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS DOING, IN THE WAKE OF THE SPECIAL SESSION AND THE BAN, WE TALKED ABOUT HOW ELECTIONS WERE ROUGHLY WHAT WE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO BE.

IS IT TOO SOON WHETHER OR NOT THAT STRATEGY IS WORKING?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

ANY TIME YOU REACH OUT AND LISTEN TO VOTERS NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE OR WHAT PARTY THEY COME FROM, AND LISTEN TO THEM AND TRY TO ADVOCATE POLICIES THAT THEY WANT TO HEAR IS A GOOD THING.

I THINK MIKE IS DOING A GOOD JOB OF THAT.

AND SOMETIMES THOSE THINGS TAKE A FEW YEARS TO BEAR FRUIT.

SO LET'S JUST SEE WHAT HAPPENS BASED ON THAT.

>> FROM THE INDIANA REPUBLICAN PARTY PERSPECTIVE, IS IT JUST CLEAR SKIES AHEAD?

>> NO, IT'S ALWAYS -- YOU'RE ALWAYS AT RISK.

EVERY ELECTION CYCLE, THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU PICK THE RIGHT CANDIDATE AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU'RE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT HOW YOU'RE GOVERNING AND WHAT ISSUES YOU'RE PICKING AND I THINK AGREE OR DISAGREE, I THINK MOST OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE, WITH SOME HIGH PROFILE EXAMPLES BEFORE WE TRIPPED UP, HAVE BEEN IN LINE WITH WHAT MOST HOOSIERS WARRANTHOOSIERWANTED TO SEE, AND I THINK THERE'S BEEN A POLITICAL REWARD FOR THAT.

BUT YOU SHOULD NEVER SLEEP ON IT.

GOVERNORS' RACES ARE DIFFERENT.

PEOPLE CONSIDER THOSE DIFFERENTLY, IT IS -- YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT A U.S. SENATE RACE AND A GOVERNOR'S RACE ARE DIFFERENT RACES AND VOTERS THINK ABOUT THOSE DIFFERENTLY, BUT IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING, I THINK, HOW THE NATIONAL ENVIRONMENT CREATES A BASELINE IN STATES ANYMORE BECAUSE IT'S SO LOUD AND IT'S SO DIVISIVE AND DOMINANT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DRAW A STRAIGHT LINE FROM JOE BIDEN TO TERRI AUSTIN.

WHEN JOE BIDEN IS GOING INTO THOSE SWING STATES AND COMING FROM THE LEFT, THAT HAS AN IMPACT ON VOTERS HERE.

>> WHEN YOU SAY YOU PICKED THE BEST CANDIDATE, SO YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT YOU REALLY THINK DOREENDIEGO MORALES IS THE BEST CANDIDATE THEY COULD HAVE PICKED?

HE'S A DIRT BAG AND HE'S SECRETARY OF STATE.

SO WHAT DOES THAT PROVE?

DOES HUFN ER GO TO THE HEAD AND SAY I CAN ELECT A DIRT BAG.

>> HISTORICAL FOOTNOTE OR ASTERISK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT 20-YEAR CHANGE, THE FIRST 150 YEARS OF OUR STATE, YOU COULDN'T SERVE CONSECUTIVE TERMS.

SO THAT DID LEND ITSELF TO MORE FREQUENT CHANGE, PERHAPS.

>> HOOSIERS AND AMERICANS FACED CONSIDERABLE STRAIN FROM INFLATION ACROSS THE ECONOMY IN 2022, WHILE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TRIED TO MITIGATE THOSE EFFECTS WITH SOME INFLATION RELIEF.

INFLATION WAS AT ITS WORST IN JUNE, UP ABOUT NINE PERCENT YEAR OVER YEAR, THE WORST MARK IN 40 YEARS.

REPUBLICANS BLAMED FEDERAL SPENDING.

DEMOCRATS POINTED TO PRESSURES CAUSED BY THE PANDEMIC AND SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES, AS WELL AS THE RUSSIAN ASSAULT ON UKRAINE.

GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB AND STATEHOUSE REPUBLICANS RESISTED CALLS TO PAUSE STATE GAS TAXES.

INSTEAD, THEY CREATED INFLATION RELIEF PAYMENTS FROM THE STATE BUDGET SURPLUS THAT AMOUNTED TO 200 DOLLARS PER PERSON FOR ANYONE WHO FILED A TAX RETURN LAST YEAR.

HOOSIERS ON SOCIAL SECURITY CAN ACCESS THE PAYMENTS NEXT YEAR BY FILING A STATE TAX RETURN, EVEN IF THEY WOULDN'T NORMALLY NEED TO.

NIKI KELLY, DID INDIANA'S INFLATION RELIEF PAYMENTS MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> I THINK TO SOME PEOPLE, THEY DID.

IT ALL DEPENDS WHERE YOU'RE AT ON THE ECONOMIC, YOU KNOW, SPECTRUM.

FOR SOME PEOPLE, IT WAS A TANK OF GAS, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE ROUNDS AT THE GROCERY.

IT CERTAINLY DIDN'T HURT ANYONE.

AND IF THE MONEY IS JUST SITTING THERE AND THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO INVEST IT IN, YOU KNOW, KEY PROGRAMS, WHICH THEY'VE SHOWN THEY AREN'T INTERESTED IN -- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE INTERESTED IN KEEPING THE BUDGET DOWN AND KEEPING TAXES LOW, SO IF THE MONEY IS JUST GOING TO SIT THERE, WHY NOT GIVE IT BACK?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, WE WERE -- THIS WAS A WINNER FOR REPUBLICANS.

THEY CHOSE NOT TO DO ANYTHING WITH THE GAS TAX, WHICH DEMOCRATS TRIED TO THROW A LOT OF FLACK AT THEM FOR, BUT THE $200 PAYMENTS TO MOST PEOPLE, NOT EVERYBODY, THAT'S A WINNER, RIGHT?

>> SURE.

I MEAN, WHO DOESN'T WANT TO GET $200?

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, TO SOME HOOSIERS WHO WERE FEELING THE PINCH OF INFLATION, IT WAS PROBABLY A LIFE SAVER IN TERMS OF GETTING THEIR CARS FILLED UP OR GROCERIES ON THE TABLE.

THE FLIP SIDE, OF COURSE, IS, WHAT COULD YOU DO IN TERMS OF A LEGACY IMPACT IF YOU TOOK THOSE SAME DOLLARS AND RATHER THAN SPREADING IT OUT $200 AT A TIME, ACTUALLY PUT -- INVEST IT IN WHATEVER THAT IS THAT'S BASED ON -- DESIGNED TO PROMOTE QUALITY OF LIFE IN INDIANA OR HAVE SOME PROFOUND EFFECT THAT ONLY A BIG TICKET INVESTMENT WOULD.

YOU COULD ARGUE THAT THAT WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

>> I SAID THE $200 WENT TO MOST PEOPLE.

SENIORS ON SOCIAL SECURITY CAN GET THE MONEY THIS YEAR OR IN TAXES AND IF THEY KNOW TO DO THAT AND IF THEY DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.

WERE YOU EXPECTING ANY SORT OF FRUSTRATION FROM THAT VERY POWERFUL VOTING BLOCK TOWARDS REPUBLICANS?

>> WELL, FIRST IT'S CLUNKY DOING WHAT THEY TRIED TO DO.

>> YEAH.

>> RIGHT?

THERE ISN'T A MECHANISM, AN EASY MECHANISM FOR DISTRIBUTING A BILLION DOLLARS TO LITERALLY -- >> OUT OF NOWHERE.

>> RIGHT.

>> IN A FEW MONTHS.

SO NO, THERE WAS SO MUCH OF THIS BETWEEN INFLATION, ROUND AFTER ROUND OF COVID, STIMULUS PAYMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, FEDERAL DOLLARS COMING DOWN TO THE STATE LEVEL.

WHICH IS PART OF THE PROBLEM, RIGHT?

THAT'S WHY WE HAD AN INFLATION PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH.

NOT THAT IT WAS ALL UNNECESSARY BUT WE'RE NOW STARTING TO GET THE INITIAL ANALYSES OF HOW MUCH WENT TO FRAUD, HOW MANY TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE FRAUDULENTLY SPENT AND USED.

SO I THINK IT WAS EITHER ALL A LITTLE HELPFUL OR NONE OF IT WAS HELPFUL, YOU KNOW?

BOTH PARTIES SPENT THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS -- >> FROM THE INDIANA STATEHOUSE SEAT, WERE THESE $200 PAYMENTS SUGGEST THINK THAT WAS GOOD FOR HOOSIERS?

>> I THINK INFLATION IS A WORLDWIDE PROBLEM.

AND THE IDEA THAT INDIANA CAN SOMEHOW MITIGATE IT IS RIDICULOUS.

IF YOU WANT TO HELP THE PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM WHO NEED IT, THEN DO IT ON A MEANS TESTING, YOU KNOW?

DON'T DO TO SOMEBODY WHO WILL SAY, OH, 200 BUCKS?

LET'S GO TO DINNER AT SO-AND-SO AND GET THAT OTHER BOTTLE OF WINE.

COME ON.

IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, NO.

AND JON IS RIGHT.

INVEST IT IN PRESCHOOL OR IN LOWERING THE GAS TAX OR TAKING THE SALES TAX OFF GAS.

ANY ONE OF THOSE THINGS COULD HAVE HAD A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT FOR PEOPLE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

FINALLY, US A LOOK BACK AT 2022, WHO IS YOUR BIGGEST WINNER IN THE HOOSIER POLITICAL SCENE?

WE'LL START WITH YOU, MIKE O'BRIEN.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT IT EARLY YES, I THINK IT'S GOD TO BE TODD -- GOT TO BE TODD HUSTON.

HE HAD A FAR RIGHT ATTACK ON HIS CAUCUS IN THE PRIMARY, DEFENDED IT, THEN PICKED UP A COUPLE OF OTHERS THAT WERE ALREADY FAR RIGHT MEMBERS OF THE CAUCUS.

AND HAD SOME OR MOST OF -- HALF OF THOSE, 10 OF THOSE HAPPEN.

IT SUBSTANTIALLY CHANGES THE TONE OF THE CONVERSATION AT THE STATEHOUSE, THE TYPES OF ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE TO THE FLOOR.

YOU THINK IT'S CONSERVATIVE NOW.

[LAUGHTER] BUT HE DEFENDS THAT.

>> I WOULD TAKE A POINT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE.

ED DELANEY WITH 73% OF THE VOTE.

[LAUGHTER] >> NIKI KELLY.

>> I THINK HUSTON IS A HARD ONE TO ARGUE WITH.

HE KEPT THAT CAUCUS TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT SENATOR BRAY COULD NOT KEEP HIS CAUCUS TOGETHER ON SOME VERY DIVISIVE ISSUES SO I THINK I'LL STEAL THAT ONE.

>> THAT IS THE RIGHT ANSWER.

HOWEVER, IN THE INTEREST OF TRYING TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, HOW ABOUT ANOTHER TODD, TODD YOUNG.

I MEAN, IT WAS A GOOD YEAR FOR HIM.

HOW COULD YOU NOT -- >> SOLID.

>> HOW COULD YOU NOT SAY THAT WAS AN IMPRESSIVE WIN?

>> AND SETTING HIMSELF UP FOR NOW BUILDING A LEGACY FOR HIMSELF IN THE SENATE WHICH IT LOOKS LIKE HE DOES.

BIG E. LOSER.

>> IF I WANTED TO LOOK AT THE DEFINITION OF LOSER I'D PICK DIEGO MORALES.

>> BIGGEST LOSER THIS YEAR.

>> IT'S NOT FROM LACK OF TRYING, BUT THE INDIANA DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR ALL THE EFFORT AND THE CHANGE IN STRATEGY AND THE CHANGE IN APPROACH AND THE ENGAGEMENT OF VOTERS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, AND WOKE UP THE NEXT DAY AND IT WAS THE SAME.

>> JON SCHWANTES, BIGGEST LOSER THIS YEAR?

>> THE ONE THING ABOUT DIEGO MORALES IS HE'S GOING TO BE IN OFFICE.

>> MAYBE.

HE MIGHT BE INDICTED.

>> SO YOU'D HAVE TO SAY, AGAIN, NOTHING AGAINST -- WELLS, BUT THAT WAS GOING TO BE THE -- THAT WAS THE BEST SHOT AND IN THE DEMOCRATIC STATEWIDE RACE, SHE DIDN'T PULL IT OFF.

I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING AGAINST HER BUT IF HE WAS THE LOSER AND HE WON THAT LEAVES THE QUESTION WHO WAS AN THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT TICKET?

>> I AGAIN WAS GOING TO SAY THE DEMOCRATS SO MIKE IS STEALING ALL MY ANSWERS.

JUST FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT, I'LL SAY MAYBE TODAY TODD RIKITA, HE'S LOST THIS PUBLIC PERCEPTION FIGHTS.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HIM RIGHT NOW, THOUGH.

>> TRUE.

HE WAS FOUND TO HAVE BASICALLY VIOLATED THE LAW AGAINST DR. CAITLYN BERNARD, HE'S LOST A LOT OF THE ISSUE ABOUT EXECUTIVE POWERS LAWSUIT.

>> MY BIGGEST WINNER WAS TODD YOUNG.

MY BIGGEST LOSER IS THE INDIANA DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS AND NIKI KELLY OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

YOU CAN FIND INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW'S PODCAST AND EPISODES AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR ON THE PBS VIDEO APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME AND HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAY BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

>> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

"INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.