[Music].

>> BRANDON SMITH: We look back at 2023.

A big budget session, the governor's race, plus the abortion ban in the courts and more.

From the television studios at WFYI, it is Indiana Week in Review for the week ending December 22, 2023.

>> Indiana Week in Review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana public broadcasting stations .

>> BRANDON SMITH: This week, we look back at the 2023 legislative session , which delivered major new investments in public and mental health, and created near universal access to private school vouchers.

Much of the debate in the 2023 session focus not on policy, but of dollars.

Lawmakers dramatically expanded the services local health departments can offer, and a lot of $225 million for that effort.

They invested in local community mental health centers, I 988 crisis response plan, and getting people out of jail into treatment, spending $100 million.

And, a $1.5 billion increase for K-12 education including a dramatic expansion of the state school voucher program, allowing family support morning of the $220,000 per year to access taxpayer dollars for private school education.

Was the spending spree a surprise?

It is the first question for our Indiana Week in Review panel.

Democrat Ann DeLaney, Republican Mike O'Brien, Jon Schwantes , host of Indiana lawmakers, and Niki Kelly, editor in chief of the Indiana capital Chronicle.

I am Iniana public broadcasting status bureau chief Brandon Smith.

Ann DeLaney, were you surprised the lawmaker spent so big in 2023?

>> ANN DELANEY: There was so much money and so much but that need based on the statistics for public health and mental health in the state, that there was no excuse for them not to do something.

They did somethingut frankly, I think that the former Senator Kelly's involvement in that really helped persuade Republicans that it was way past time to start investing in public and mental health.

They have been a good first step.

They are not there yet by any means, but they've done a good first step.

The voucher program makes no sense.

No sense.

People already had their kids in private schools and were already paying for the education.

Now, we have thrown money at that and add charters, and taken away from traditional public education where 90% of the students are and we have seen what is happened.

Third-grade failures in reading, the number is going to higher education going down.

The whole experiment in privatizing public education has been a failure, and they will not admit it.

That is really unfortunate .

>> BRANDON SMITH: This leads to what I wanted to ask you about.

If you like with those big investments that they made in public health, mental health and basically near universal vouchers, these are all investments that you really can't back away from, you have to keep going now, right?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: That is right.

They knew that going in.

I think having years, hopefully it is sustained because we had these bizarre Covid years we had a lot of federal money coming to the states.

We had inflation, when inflation is high from Peverything cost more obviously.

You are pulling in more tax revenue .

Once inflation, as it is now close to rightsizing or is at least on that path , we hope the investments can be maintained, but we have seen that an increase in tax revenue in part because of economic investment in the state of Indiana.

It is two sides of a coin.

Yes, you are spending more money, but you have historic amount of revenue .

>> ANN DELANEY: You need a new adjective .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: The state is breaking those records every year with outside investment .

You are building the economy is spending is keeping up in the areas the Republicans are focusing .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Jon, of these three big investments, vouchers, public health and mental health, long term, I don't mean five years from now, I mean 20 years from now, as people look back on the 2023 session, which you think it was they made the biggest impact: >> JON SCHWANTES: Part of a problem with our political system now is no one is looking ahead 20 years.

They are looking to the next election or next by annual budget, let's stipulate that.

Clearly, the need was mental health.

And access to mental health careWe did see movement in those areas.

It was just a crisis, it's a crisis in Indiana and everywhere in the country.

It is probably a.

>> Is everywhere on the planet.

Good for them for doing something .

>> Morning mental health in the public health side , people said this was a good start but we need more .

>> JON SCHWANTES: We also had more universal support.

Maybe not for the original asked, but public health funding got caught up in this notion of public health is the government trying to tell locals what they need to offer .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Going back to Covid policies.

>> JON SCHWANTES: Yes, there was that baggage that didn't really affect the other.

I was say in terms of the surprises , I would've been surprised certainly five years ago if you told me that this money would have been available, but nobody saw the pandemic coming.

The other surprise is maybe not what was spent, but what wasn't spent.

We were flush with cash but did not see funding, that extra check for retirees and state employees.

Again, it's a small amount but if you are throwing money at everything that moves, that would've been a logical step.

Or, you look at childcare , where there was an increase.

It is not merely the threshold, for instance vouchers , what the now, 400% ?

This moved up a little bit but it was not funded fully.

If anything, I am more surprised by what was not funded .

>> BRANDON SMITH: We talked about the big three spending items, but how often you think of the 23 three session, what stood out here?

>> NIKI KELLY: It feels so long ago, I had to go look it up.

They did help parents by getting rid of K-12 fees, they gave most of billion dollars , we are trying to see that in every meeting with they are spending more and more to entice companies .

I think we are starting to see a little bit of pushback on that sort of subject.

We also saw some culture war issues with transgender healthcare band and pronoun usage and library books.

They did a lot .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Indiana 2024 gubernatorial race was fully endured throughout 2023, at the Republican field expanded and Democrats found the candidates .

Indiana's first - - prominent names and deep pockets.

Businessman Eric Tilden has been in the race for more than two years, while Jamie - - filed in April of last year.

Lieutenant Governor Suzanne Crouch and U.S.

Senator Mike Braun joined just before the calendar foot 23.

Former Attorney General Curtis help through his hat into the ring the summer while former state commerce Secretary Brad Chambers enter the field on months later.

On the Democrat side, Jennifer McCormick was served in that office as a Republican announced her candidacy ended up as of the favorite to earn the party's nomination.

Mike O'Brien, what surprised you the most about the governor's race this year?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I think how unchanged it is.

We had Eric - - rain for 2.5 years in this large field.

We have Mike Braun in the lead , endorsed by Donald Trump and we are all starting to wait to see, what breaks the Trump hole on the party .

Whether that is in the presidential primary with the Iowa caucus coming up and what is the impact down the stream ?

The impact might answer it might be nothing.

Donald Trump is just in the head of the party now since 2015 and will continue to be the head of the party and whoever has tied himself to that program will be rewarded politically.

>> BRANDON SMITH: At least in primary .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: At least in primary elections, certainly .

It is hard to see that what breaks this race open other than tem all going at each other .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Are you a little surprised that we have not seen more sniping at each other?

>> ANN DELANEY: They have started sniping.

What is surprising about this is that he used to be that the Lieutenant Governor was the heir apparent to the gubernatorial nomination from Frank O'Bannon, Joe Kernan and even Eric Holcomb.

The only difference is that the Lieutenant Governor is a woman .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Come on, that's a reach!

>> ANN DELANEY: That happens to be the truth .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I think Suzanne has a pretty unique Lane here .

>> ANN DELANEY: I think too, but not because the Republican Party and its vast majority is prepared to nominate a woman for governor, but she does have a section .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I think there is more to that than you are talking tohere is less of that than you think there is, I don't hear it as all .

>> ANN DELANEY: You always try to control woman.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I have spent my whole life not trying to control women.

[Laughter].

>> ANN DELANEY: That is one of the things that is surprising.

The sniping is starting and I know you keep saying that Braun is ahead and supposedly he has numbers for that, but if you were ahead as much is he's supposed to be, why are you attacking - -?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: To stay ahead .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Because .

>> ANN DELANEY: Because he's a threat?

>> BRANDON SMITH: The name that got into the race this year the surprised a lot of people was Brad Chambers.

He had never run for political office before, he had been the secretary of commerce for several years, had not been a big political name as far as I can tell.

Is he the one that could have the biggest impact on this race when it comes down to it next May?

>> NIKI KELLY: Possibly.

He has money to put into the race and is it even really have to go to the fundraising well , though he is.

He is bringing in large contributions from supporters , some of which have him to thank for incentives and projects from the IDC when he was there.

I think the biggest surprise is how soon it started .

I am a little shocked that at least one or two have not dropped out yet.

We will see in January if they cannot come up with the signatures they need .

>> BRANDON SMITH: That is the biggest thing.

The deadlines early February for the signatures.

You have to get 500 signatures, voter signatures, from each of the nine congressional districts.

4500 signatures.

That is a high bar .

Do you think those candidates, the five that we consider the most likely to get this nomination?

>> ANN DELANEY: And Jennifer McCormick .

>> BRANDON SMITH: On the Republican side, choosing all five of them get the signatures?

>> JON SCHWANTES: Yes.

Yes, it is a lot of signatures but if you cannot get that, it shows you have no organizational strength at the grassroots level at which you argue we need .

>> BRANDON SMITH: An argument not enough money which will matter .

>> JON SCHWANTES: Right.

I'll think that will be the impediment.

What is interesting about that primary, we have to figure out how to differentiate themselves.

The notion of traditional republicanism versus popular resumes to me is most striking.

That, if we watch that is where it really gets heated.

That is the flashpoint.

You will people to represent traditional job creation , which is we are going to make some deals , get international investors, we are going to come and create jobs.

There are the people say jobs are not always good these deals are done behind closed doors or heaven forbid they are in certain areas of the state that are not already flush with jobs.

I'm not arguing that point but it is certainly a convention of those in the rural areas .

>> BRANDON SMITH: And as we have said before on the show, but say the field is five or six people wide, you need more than 25% of the vote to be the nominee.

The Indiana Supreme Court ruled this year that the states near total abortion ban does not violate the Indiana Constitution , and since the band took effect, abortions in the state have dropped to nearly single digits.

The court four bÃone ruling said the contradictions liberty guarantee only applies to abortions the preserver.

Person's life or health.

The band only allows abortion if the pregnant person's serious health or life is at risk that there is a legal fetal anomaly up to 20 weeks ending cases of rape or incest but only if the 10 weeks.

But, there are still ongoing lawsuits.

One challenges the band from a religious freedom perspective, the other six to broaden the serious health exception.

Jon Schwantes, do you think this is played out this year the way that antiabortion activists have hoped?

>> JON SCHWANTES: I am sure there was some consternation early on with the injunctions that were issued at the county court level , various courts in fact .

Some are still pending in terms of the questions about the religious applications of this and the impact on the ability of individuals whose religions say that abortion should be the purview of mothers and women .

It is an affront to their religion.

That is still moving to the court system third as for where things stand now, despite what opponents of abortion would've set will be bumps in the road, I guess we are where activists hope we would be and where they thought we would be.

You can read a lot of interesting things to the court about the acknowledgment of the court that there are aspects that are protected , that in fact a woman if her life is in danger or serious threat , I don't think anybody had ever suggested in a formal fashion that the Indiana Constitution does explicitly guarantee that if you want to get into the fine points, that was a new development in and of itself.

It is still four bÃone against .

>> BRANDON SMITH: I think some people thought after the U.S. Supreme Court ended the guarantees and send it back to the states, so the will of the legislator will pass its law and the court says that is fine, that is constitutional.

It will be done, it will be over .

There were some who thought I would in the conversation .

We are way far away from that still, aren't we?

>> NIKI KELLY: With the amended complaint, they are zeroing in closer on things like are the medical exceptions and the health exceptions sought to explain, too narrow?

Also, we have these exceptions but access because of how the Takeaway the hospital, the access issue that is a burden for anyone who needs the exception is still yet to be decided.

While the overall law - - we have a lot of room around the edges that we will see Pdiscussion on .

>> ANN DELANEY: And in states where we can have the voters actually speak, they will repeal those back and allow access for a broader definition of who is eligible .

>> BRANDON SMITH: The abortion ban passed in 2022.

We had a 212 elections but it had taken effect yet.

That would be the first elections in which Indiana total abortion that is actually in effect .

Are we too far away from it?

The law passing in the court okaying it to have that much of an impact >> ANN DELANEY: You will have it happened in a whole variety of ways.

If the Supreme Court deals with a drug the FDA approved two decades ago, depending on the outcome of that, what happened here is the court and the antichoice advocates are ahead of the public.

The public does not agree with a total ban on abortion.

They do not.

They think they should be a number of exceptions and it ought to be more readily available and more affordable.

The fact that they have crammed their religious belief down the throats of everyday Hoosiers is going to come back to bite them .

>> Out that you will have a broader impact of the pictures are pretty red in most places, but we have seen retirements from incumbent lawmakers and the doughnut counties , could abortion be a factor in those races?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: And a very narrow race.

In the Carmel general election .

Maybe.

Theoretically, but it is all in theoretical for three cycles where we have said the donuts are getting purple, they are going to flip, Democrats are going to put the seat or that seat.

It's not happeningIt didn't happen .

I don't understand the idea that the time to really pounce on this or voters were going to react to it wasn't immediately when I was going to happen when you have a chance last year's .

>> ANN DELANEY: That was not a general election.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Yes it was .

>> ANN DELANEY: It was not a presidential election .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: There was no evidence that was happening .

>> ANN DELANEY: We will see what happens after November .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I agree with you that voters generally is because of our political system.

We don't have referendum and we are not running campaigns on abortion.

If you make some marginal difference - - so many Republicans and Hoosiers that are pro-life which is the point.>> ANN DELANEY: I'm not sure that's true.

I'm for people to say - - >> MIKE O'BRIEN: When you phrase it as dramatically as possible, for people are not going to respond .

>> JON SCHWANTES: A lot of voters don't know who to blame, not the viewers and listeners of the show, that is a savvy group.

But they don't know whether to blame Congress, the Supreme Court.

I blame voters for not being better educated about what impact they can have .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: Be able to spend the next 50 years doing what we did the last 50, but trying to poke holes in the Texas case , it is just flipped.

>> BRANDON SMITH: Speaking of chaos I suppose, there was chaos in the U.S. house we Republicans with a narrow majority grapple over who should be speaker .

It started in January as Kevin McCarthy took a record 15 balance to finally secure enough support to become speaker of the house.

But, his tenure ended after only nine months because my car keys decision to work with Democrats led to his ouster for three weeks and four candidates later - - Mike Johnson, relative unknown at the national level .

Niki Kelly, how much damage to House Republicans to to themselves this year?

>> NIKI KELLY: Of the damage there is, they did it all to themselves.

[Laughter].

The speaker fight from the beginning of trying to elect McCarthy to ousting him , it was a mess the whole time.

I definitely for instance think that will have more of an impact in abortion will in the coming election cycle.

Especially when we get back after the holidays and see what they do on the debt ceiling issue.

They basically just kicked it on the road , although I note they gave Mike Johnson a lot more leeway on that than they did Kevin McCarthy .

>> BRANDON SMITH: To that end, let's say for the sake of argument that Mike Johnson is still the speaker of the house and leader of the Republican caucus by next November.

Will all of the chaos of this year be far enough away in voters minds that Republicans could get beyond any short-term damage the amount of cause themselves?

>> JON SCHWANTES: I don't think the current alignment lends itself to getting past anything.

I think this is just a new normal , to and for the clichC).

I think you will see this in fighting and lack of ability on the part of leadership to bring people to the table.

This is just going to happen over and over , sadly .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Not dissimilar from the Indiana House and Senate, the U.S. house most hitters are either very Republican or very Democrat.

But there are clearly enough to spend the majority because it is so narrow and one way or the other.

Should Republicans in the district be worried about what is going on?

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: I don't think it will affect the outcome, but this is where we are in American politics.

The Catholic soft Republicans in the house is happening because they were in charge and I think Democrats had the same problem.

We have seen that.

Part if that is the U.S. House of Representatives is just a microcosm of extreme politics .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Nancy Pelosi led the house with narrow majorities .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: As did John Weiner and these guys in the past .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Nancy Pelosi is not the speaker in the house .

>> ANN DELANEY: I understand, but Republicans have aptly so that they are not capable of governing.

This problem is not going to go away.

The radical right caucus .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Which is admittedly not very large .

>> ANN DELANEY: But they have managed to control the agenda.

They think that compromise and working together for the good of the country is equal and that will continue .

>> MIKE O'BRIEN: We are crossing a lot of institutional lines that we would cross a once in a generation .

If that.

We will never have another country that we won't impeach .

>> BRANDON SMITH: Finally, as we look back at 2023 , who is your biggest winner in the Hoosier political scene?

We will start with you, Mike O'Brien > MIKE O'BRIEN: Universal of vouchers.

That has been a priority for Todd Houston he got what he wanted for years.

People should not have been surprised at all that we have universal vouchers .

>> BRANDON SMITH: I will add on (name) who has been working on that for longer than Todd Houston .

Who is your bigger winner too.

>> ANN DELANEY: I will give it to Democratic candidates for mayor in the city of Indiana.

In all population areas we have reelected incumbents for the third or fourth time, or we had victories in Terre Haute and Evansville and Elkhart.

They did not even put the candidate against him .

>> BRANDON SMITH: That surprised me come Elkhart seem like a really red County.

Biggest winner, Niki Kelly?

>> NIKI KELLY: Have to give it to Governor Holcomb.

He are pretty much everything on his agenda from health funding, to mental health to raises for troopers.

I >> Anytime you run for one third term , I am with you, Governor Holcomb.

He had a huge agenda and accomplish pretty much all of it.

Okay, that is Indiana Week in Review for this week.

Our panel is Democrat Ann DeLaney, Republican Mike O'Brien, Jon Schwantes of Indiana lawmakers, Niki Kelly of the Indiana capital Chronicle.

You can find Indiana Week in Review's podcast and episodes on WFYI.org/IWIR or on the PBS video app.

I am Brandon Smith of Indiana public broadcasting.

Join us next time, because a lot can happen in Indiana week.

>> The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week in Review is a WFYI production in association with Indiana's public broadcasting stations.