- We look back at the race for Indiana's open governor's seat ahead of next year's elections.

A big Republican field, the presumptive Democrat, and the issues coming to the fore On this special episode Indiana Week in Review - Indiana Week in Review is made possible by the supporters of Indiana public broadcasting stations - From the week ending July 14th.

Former Indiana Attorney General Curtis Hill, whose law license was temporarily suspended while in office when the state Supreme Court ruled he criminally battered for women, is running for Governor, Hill joins a crowded Republican primary for the open seat.

Hill had been seen as a rising Republican star before allegations that he groped four women, including a state lawmaker at a late night party in 2018.

Despite facing calls to resign and having his law license suspended for a month, Hill remained in office before losing reelection at the state Republican Party convention to current Ag.

Todd Rokita.

Hill also lost a bid for Congress last year in a private Republican caucus to replace the late Jackie Walorski.

In a statement, Hill says he's running for governor because people want a proven conservative leader who is not beholden to Washington DC or special interest groups.

US Senator Mike Braun, Lieutenant Governor Suzanne Crouch and Fort Wayne businessman Eric Doden are among the other announced Republican candidates.

Mike O'Brien.

We often, especially in a crowded primary, we talk about what's the lane, what's the lane to succeed?

What is Curtis Hill's Lane here?

- Well, I think the presumptive right now lane is the religious right base, right.

That was, that went to bat for him at the convention that that tried, that tried to defend him when all the allegations were, were flying and either dismissed them as not that big of a deal or, you know, kind of said what he said that it never happened.

The question's gonna be in, in, in a fi in a four or five way race, though with a lot of money in it.

You don't need 51% of the vote to get the nomination, you need like 30.

Right.

And so and - So, and maybe not even that honestly.

Yeah, yeah.

In a, in a with four serious candidates.

- Yeah.

Right.

With, yeah.

With without any serious candidates spread across, you know, all of that.

And, and with, so the question's gonna be for that part of the base.

Do they still have gas in the tank to keep defending this guy?

And do they, are they still kinda holding onto that and there's enough energy behind that to rally around him if they don't see another option, which isn't, may not be true either.

You, you may go see another option in a Mike Braun, you know, Doden, maybe Chambers comes in.

Brad Chambers had IEDC, maybe he comes in, those guys kind of fill a business role and Mike Braun's certainly essential to that.

But he's also, you know, pretty far right on the, you know, as far as the base is concerned.

So if that part of the base doesn't see another alternative, then they could rally around Curtis Hill.

I don't see that delivering the election for him, but that's the best, that's the best shot he's got - In, in, in terms of thinking about Curtis Hill's Lane.

I, I agree that it, it does feel like the far right of the party, which is a significant part of the party in this state, didn't have an obvious candidate yet.

Maybe Mike Braun, not really.

Eric Doden, Suzanne Crouch has certainly tried to lean that way in her social media campaign.

Right.

But that's relatively new and I don't know that she has the roots in that community the way Curtis Hill does.

Right.

But at the same, and, and, and I think it was interesting and the statement I got from the Hill campaign on Monday when he announced he used the words "Washington DC" I think three times.

So is it Mike Braun that he's clearly going after right now?

- Possibly.

I mean, I, I have to say, my comments on Curtis Hill are gonna be pretty brief 'cause I have Curtis Hill fatigue, if not Curtis Hill exhaustion at this point in time.

And I think the most bad on that.

- We agree.

I, - Yeah, exactly.

And I was gonna say, I mean, I, I spent considerable time reading all of your tweets from his hearings, both of your tweets from his hearings.

And that was about, as, as much as I've had of Curtis since then.

I, it, I agree with Mike on the fact that he is gonna try and get that far right piece and stranger things have happened in Republican primaries.

I mean, we all knew with, when Richard Luger lost, for example, in that primary, and we know how primaries can be on both sides of the aisle.

I just, you know, I've been in this business long enough to know that massive egos often outweigh common sense and they - Shame.

Yeah, shame.

I mean, all those things.

I mean, and, and so I just don't know if he's gonna be able to raise the money that he's gonna have to raise to be competitive.

I know a lot of people will say, I'm going to 92 counties, I'm gonna, this is gonna be about grassroots, but he's gonna have to have a lot of money and he's gonna be up against some really strongly funded folks in the primary.

And then you've got Suzanne Crouch who basically rolls out an endorsement every day or every other - Day.

Well, generally just about every day.

- Like, yeah.

So I, I think his, I, I don't necessarily know how his path is gonna look, but he could complicate things and that can be really a pain for Republicans.

- It feels strange and sad to say this, but I don't think the allegations and the, the law license suspension and all of that will be the thing that hurts Curtis Hill the most in his primary Niki.

Will it be the fact that he's not just facing three people who will have money.

He's facing three people right now who already have a lot of money.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, they have a ton of money and, and he's got a lot of, you know, ground to make up moving in this late with having some baggage.

You know, I do think he's, he's sort of banking on, you mentioned him mentioning the Washington DC a lot.

He's banking on sort of this national tenor, you know, he, and, and it's almost like he's running for Attorney General of the nation instead of governor in Indiana.

You know, he's announcing on Fox News Digital and he is doing all these sort of national conservative hits.

So he's trying to, I guess, improve his name ID and draw some money from outside - Indiana.

Not just money, but that gets his face out there to hopefully the kind of audience here in Indiana that he's seeing.

So making, making use of the fact that he doesn't right now at least have as much money.

Yeah.

Let me say this though.

Will he have to face head on what happened while he was in office?

The fact that he, you know, the, the court said he, he criminally batted these women.

Will he have to face that head on in this primary or can he largely ignore it if that's the route he decides to go?

- I think he can try, but if I'm his opponent, I'm gonna bring it up as much as I possibly can.

And I think that is definitely a weak spot for him.

So why wouldn't I take advantage of that?

But to your point about the Washington DC I thought that was really strange.

'cause I was like, who is he talking about?

Exactly.

Who is he signaling to that he, but you've gone on Fox, nothing you've done is about Indiana.

So, but you want to be the governor of Indiana.

But I definitely think that his past is gonna come back to haunt him.

He can try to ignore as much as he wants to and pretend that it doesn't exist, but I think his opponents are definitely gonna use it against him.

- We had a pretty crowded field at this point in 2003.

Mitch came in and kind of cleared that field.

Murray Clark, you know, lot of these guys were, David McIntosh, were all, were all kicking the tire.

Luke Kinley, we were all kind of kicking the tires on, on the governor's race and, and what Eric Miller's entrance into that kind of had this moment where it was like, oh, we gotta consolidate the same people into one guy.

You know?

And Mitch was clearly the guy that, that everybody wanted to consolidate into.

So Curtis does bring this element of let's get to the end of the year and maybe do in chambers are sitting in single digits chamber.

You know, Hill's sitting at 20 all this theoretical, you know, Suzanne and Braun are both doing well and, and competing.

But you're there, there could be an argument later that like, Hey, we can't scatter this vote.

Five ways True.

Yeah.

Because we could wind up with him.

- The other thing too though, is he could also be trying to burnish his national profile.

I mean, he may be angling for, he may be for a - Spot on Fox News, - Like he may be tried to be a Fox News commentator at this point in time - Or in a potential Republican administration.

Yeah.

After the next election, if that happens.

From the week ending August 18th, Indiana's crowded Republican primary for governor has another candidate.

Brad Chambers, who recently stepped down as Indiana Secretary of Commerce, threw his hat into the ring this week.

Chambers served two years running the Indiana Economic Development Corporation and he says that service is helping drive his decision to run for governor.

In a statement announcing his bid, he repeatedly uses the word vision, emphasizing that Indiana needs someone with urgency and ambitious aspiration to help lead the state.

Chambers helped oversee a shift in economic development strategy at IEDC with a recent emphasis on spending hundreds of millions of dollars to buy up land and prepare it for companies to locate on without knowing whether that investment will pay off.

Prior to his time in state government, Chambers led a real estate investment firm for decades.

He now joins a GOP primary that includes US Senator Mike Braun, Lieutenant Governor Suzanne Crouch, Fort Wayne businessman, Eric Doden, and former Attorney General Curtis Hill.

Destiny Wells, considering who's already in the field, including an independently wealthy former head of the Indiana Economic Development Corporation.

Does a Brad Chambers run for governor make a lot of sense?

- I think probably in the echo chamber of the establishment that he's listening to right now.

It does make sense.

You have a lot of candidates, it's fractured.

And so maybe somebody with no- low name ID like Brad Chambers, it would make sense.

However, I'm not sure that he's gonna resonate with a lot of the electorate outside of that establishment.

You know, if you are known for taking farmland, stealing water, you may not resonate with rural Indiana.

So I, you know, billionaire Brad may have some problems when it comes to rural Indiana.

- I feel like so many things I could use to describe Brad Chambers I can use to describe Eric Doden, who's been in this race for two years.

What does Chambers see that the rest of us don't seem to think, don't seem to see?

- Well, at first I'd say it seems like the Democrats are worried about him.

So there's, we could start with that.

You know, I, I think that because there are four now, five candidates in this race, and some have been in for months, some have been in for years.

But yet it's interesting that it still feels like a pretty wide open race.

You haven't seen any significant consolidation.

So there's, I think there's opportunity for a new candidate to enter.

There are, you know, multiple paths to victory.

I would estimate and, and think about just the numbers, depending on how it goes.

You know, you may not have to have 50% of the vote, you may not have to have what those numbers are.

Well, you know, is gonna be really telling.

And you know, he's just coming off of a two year stint overseeing the state's most significant economic development and job creation in state history.

So, so the contrast with them obviously is the most recent, you know, last couple years versus a record previously.

But, you know, I think there are, there are several strong candidates who have a case to make, but it's, it's pretty clear that after this amount of time, there's still opportunity.

And I would expect that he's surveyed that.

- When, when Curtis Hill joined the race, in addition to some other stuff we talked about with Curtis Hill, we talked about who should be most worried of the, of the candidates who were already in, of Curtis Hill, taking support away from them to himself.

Should Eric Doden be really concerned here?

- Conventional wisdom would suggest that that is, let's go back to the, to the terminology that you used and set the stage with this discussion with.

And that is Lanes, they're both, if this were a swim meet or a track meet, they're both jockeying for the same set of blocks or the same whenever one calls a spring meet, what do you call it, at a swim meet?

It's been a while, but, well that the same place you jump off to start the- Sure.

Technical term if we, if we may.

And, and that's, that's where that would seem to be the message.

Not just the message, but the credentials, the background.

Very similar with the two of them in terms of their, their focus on economic development and making sure that Indiana is well positioned for economic growth.

- Obviously Brad Chambers, he already has started, will make a lot out of, he's just finished running two years of the IEDC.

Look at all of the jobs, look at all of the commitments we brought in.

Look at all the investment we brought in to Indiana.

But unlike a lot of heads of IEDC in the past, Destiny pointed this out, that strategy has not come without pissing some people off.

Quite frankly, maybe not a lot of people, but it's made some people upset.

Is that going to be a problem for Brad - Chambers?

Yeah, I mean, one thing in, in their own press release they counted as a success was launching the LEAP District in Boone County.

Well, first of all, I mean, it, it, we don't even have it a single job out there yet.

So we've spent hundreds of millions of dollars to buy land.

They are, they are voluntary sales, but obviously people in Boone County have felt pressured.

We've spent a lot of money on those land purchases way above value.

We still only have one commitment in that thing.

And now you've added this billion dollar pipeline we're gonna build, taking water from Lafayette to down to indie.

So that's definitely controversial and I don't think we know in any way whether that's a success yet or not overall to me.

And - We're not going to know - Before people - Are casting their votes next - Year.

The, the key thing I see from Brad Chambers entering is, is he's the mystery.

I know literally nothing.

Someone asked me is he stridently conservative?

Is he more moderate?

Is he, you know, socially a conservative?

I have no idea.

He's a complete mystery.

And in some ways he gets to, I guess, you know, use his money to define himself now.

Yeah.

- From the week ending August 25th.

This week, Lieutenant Governor Suzanne Crouch, who's running for governor, is backing a push to eliminate the state's individual income tax.

That tax currently brings in about $8 billion a year for Indiana, a third of total state revenue.

Crouch says she's pushing income tax elimination because she constantly hears from people who are struggling with inflation and the increasingly high cost of living, making up for the loss of so much revenue.

She says will require a holistic approach.

- We're gonna look at cutting government spending.

We're gonna look at limiting government growth.

We're gonna look at finding inefficiencies within government.

- What programs or services might be on the chopping block.

She won't say, she also won't delve into specifics on how she wants to modernize the tax code as part of her plan.

- The how isn't as important as the what and the what is.

We are going to eliminate income tax.

- A legislative task force is currently examining the state's entire tax system.

Crouch says she'll watch closely the results of that effort.

Is this a good idea?

Huh?

- Well it is certainly a flash pan idea coming out of a primary, quite frankly, earlier than I thought, something this sweeping would come out.

So that's the surprising thing to me, where you've got a crowded primary, it's already been contentious and already we're throwing something this grand.

Well, I - Mean the primary started out a lot sooner, I suppose, - Than the normally that's, that is fair - Adjusted for that.

- So, but, but you've got the politics and the policy side of this, right?

So politics, okay, we're all talking about it.

The policy side to not have details about how this would be done to take $8 billion out of our revenue to that, that's a whole year of school funding.

This isn't something that happens overnight.

There is a current committee, the task force they met this week that this, that is studying this.

You don't just eliminate the income tax.

Not to mention we have spent the last 15 years just focused on tax breaks.

If the attention- intention with this is to help families because of high inflation, we should be investing in Hoosier families.

We should be switching to a model we, where we are investing in public health, in public education.

We haven't been doing that because we've been so focused on the tax breaks.

So, you know, that's the policy side.

On the political side, it's some flash pan politics.

We're talking about it.

And I think that's the intent.

- The how is not as important as the what and the what is eliminating the state income tax when you're talking about eliminating $8 billion.

And that's just right now, by the time we would actually do this, it will be probably closer to nine or even 10 if things continue to go well, the house seems pretty important, does it not?

- Sure.

But we're in the what part right now, the, of the cycle.

And we have been investing in all the things that at least just said, which is why in part we are talking about tax cuts again.

'cause we, we've been awash in kind of an obscene amount of surplus money.

A large portion of which they, they spent down, I'm trying not to revel too much in the fact that the Indiana Democrats and Curtis Hill both agree and Curtis Hill, the conservative in the race, the so-called conservative in the race, came out and said, how are you gonna replace all this revenue?

That's not the conservative part of cutting taxes where we make the government whole.

You're have to experience pain on government side if you're trying to, if you're trying to deliver relief to the people you're trying to deliver relief to in inflationary times.

This is very similar to me in the conversation about property taxes.

Same dynamic.

How you gonna do it?

We can never do it.

It's too, it's it's too expensive.

It's gonna hurt too much.

Well, you go through that, but, but it was so necessary 'cause people were losing their homes only because of their property tax bill.

And that was back in 2008.

And, and, and we fixed that problem.

And, but it took a number of, you had to turn a lot of dials to deliver that level of relief and also not, and not completely flush or put, put that much strain on, on state and local government.

So I think the committee that met this week is gonna look at all those options, all those dials that, that you turn and do what my favorite Mitch Daniels line.

Let's write a tax code like someone designed it on purpose.

- We already have a flat regressive tax.

So when it comes to income tax, I just, this seems like the total elimination.

- Yeah, to that point.

I was gonna say, if you wanted to get, you know, she, I mean she's right.

People are struggling.

Inflation, high, high gas prices, high prices at the grocery store.

That is a real problem that people are absolutely struggling with.

It seems to me that, and, and, and if you cut a tax, there is a, there is pain on the government side.

That's the way it works.

It feels like there would be a lot of pain, not just for the government, but for people who count on government services if you just get rid of this tax.

So why not move to a progressive income tax where you are helping people who can't, who, who need the help more and the people who don't need as much help would pay in a little bit - More.

Well, I guess the problem politically with adopting that kind of proposal is it doesn't get the same kind of bang for your political buck.

If that were the case, yeah, me might be talking about it, but it wouldn't be as, wow.

Now that's a bold proposal and it, it's surprising to me.

Yes, we, the the, you would like to see more how in particulars and specifics that that's one thing.

But we'll take that off the table for a minute.

But if you looked at these candidates that are seeking the job and you said who ranked them most likely to propose the elimination of the individual income tax?

I would've put her maybe not at the bottom for the likelihood, but close to the bottom because she's someone who has been a champion of government as a force for good in terms of the mental health arena in terms of the delivery of, of human services.

She chaired a task force, a round table that looked at this issue for quite a period of time.

These are issues that don't come cheap.

The solutions don't come cheap.

- And the idea of attracting businesses, and even perhaps more importantly right now, given the state of, of economic development people and talent to the state or keeping them here before they leave, that she believes, you know, you eliminate the state income tax.

That's what's gonna happen is more businesses are gonna come here, more people are gonna come here.

But increasingly what we are told by businesses is that quality of place.

The idea of making a place attractive to live and work in, not just to work in, but to live and work in is the watch word of economic development.

If you take away the government's ability to do things like trails and all of these, the important government services and then the quality of place government services.

'cause those are the ones that go first when you're talking about slashing $8 billion, aren't you hurting yourselves with the very thing you think you're trying to solve?

- Yeah, I mean it's a tough one.

I I give her credit for throwing down, you know, a bold idea for, you know, she's steering the conversation.

Yeah.

Her other opponents are having to now talk about it.

But the details from someone who's covered the nitty gritty of state budgets are important and, and you know, she said we're not gonna raise any additional taxes.

So then the idea of, you know, efficiencies, that's what we heard again and again, efficiencies.

Look, I I don't, this kind of cracks me up about this conversation is Republicans have been in charge for 20 years.

Are there billions of dollars of efficiencies still in state government or inefficiencies?

And, and if so, why?

Because they've been in charge for 20 years.

So acting like you can find billions in inefficiencies is, is just not realistic.

And when you cut something that means someone doesn't get a service.

Whether it means you have to go to the next county, to the BMV or you, you know, just various ways you interact with state government.

So, but I, I appreciate the conversation.

I've said for a long time I want candidates to be making proposals and let's talk about them.

So - Oh yeah, this is absolutely welcome.

Yeah.

This is a proposal.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- From the week ending September 8th.

Axios Indianapolis reported this week that a poll commissioned by democratic gubernatorial candidate Jennifer McCormick shows her in a tight race or two with some of the Republican hopefuls.

According to the Axios story, McCormick's poll of more than 600 registered voters put her in head-to-head matchups with three GOP candidates.

US Senator Mike Braun, Lieutenant Governor Suzanne Crouch, and former attorney General Curtis Hill, McCormick trailed Braun 46 to 35%, trailed crouch 39 to 35%, and was tied with Hill at 36%.

McCormick, who served as Indiana superintendent of public instruction as a Republican before switching parties, trails, the Republican field significantly in fundraising.

John Schwantes, is taking any poll paid for by a candidate with an enormous grain of salt, as we always do.

Looking at all of the people who were mentioned in this poll has Mike Braun got the reason to be the happiest with these results, - I suppose better to be in the position he's in than, than than the second slot, third slot.

But going back to a point that Niki made a moment ago with the momentum she has seen, and we've all seen with the, the, the upstart in this, in this race, the Chambers campaign, if that, you know, that wasn't really not on the, on - The horizon.

Well, he hasn't even announced - He's not, so it was not mixed in, not a factor.

So who's to say if we had the same campaign or the same poll conducted now, it would give the same results.

I don't know the answer to that, obviously, but I guess to answer your question, better to be first place and the most viable candidate.

But you know what, these, to your point, polls at this stage, look at, we had CNN this week saying Nikki Haley was the only Republican at the presidential level who might be able to beat, or at least statistically could be true, could beat Joe Biden and she - Won't be the nominee - And she won't even be the nominee.

So - Something crazy would have to happen.

- Well, there's a lot crazy at Yeah, but - There's a long time until the, - But that's the point of polls right now.

I mean, its fun - To talk about.

To that end, if you're, if you're Jennifer McCormick, you've put out a poll, you've decided to, you did a private poll that you've decided to talk to at least one press outlet about knowing that it'll be reported elsewhere.

And you're losing by, what was it, 11 or 12 to one of the, to one of the front runners for the GOP nomination?

Explain, explain the logic of that to me.

- Yeah, I mean I think you just in their minds, you know what, a democrat hasn't won a statewide elected position here in years.

And so even if you show them near the top, can, I mean, definitely showed her - Oh yeah.

Right, right.

By crowd and - By Crouch, by- and Todd with Hills.

So, you know, I think the most I would take from it is she has great name recognition, which I, I'm not too surprised by.

She's our four years as su- superintendent of public instruction.

Obviously - I wasn't quiet during those four.

No, - Not at all.

She well regarded.

- So that's something they can build on and maybe fundraise on.

- Yeah.

To that end, is this poll really about proving to some people who you're trying to ask for money that Hey, I am - By, I'm in the race.

I'm in the race.

That's what it shows.

She, it not only has name recognition, but she has positive name recognition and I, I think that's something that she can market.

The fact that Braun is a sitting senator can get what, 36% of the vote?

Yeah.

Okay.

Is is not an overwhelming endorsement of him.

I think it - Was more than - That, but yeah.

Was it?

I thought it was, - I thought she had 36 and he had something.

It's, anyway, - He had a 10 point, - He didn't have - Over 50.

I wrote this story.

It's not like I should remember the numbers.

- Numbers are not our game - Numbers anyway.

My my point is that she shows that she's viable and, and she can raise the money.

And we don't know that Braun's gonna be the nominee.

I I've said this repeatedly.

I think it's gonna be Suzanne Crouch, in which case it's a dead - End.

To that point, I, and you mentioned it was too late for Chambers, or he hadn't announced yet before this poll was available.

But I really would've been fascinated to see her numbers against like an Eric Doden, not saying that he's going to win, but you have one person with little to no name ID versus you.

How do those numbers match up?

I agree.

If somebody that you might not be as familiar, you might not know his political standing as well.

Yeah.

How do you match up with him?

And I think that could have been, - And that would be the same thing with Chambers.

'cause I bet you if you put Chambers - On - That 10% - Could, - But I think I, I think that could have been a better maybe talking point than showing yourself down.

- That's Indiana Week in Review for this week.

You can find Indiana Week in Review's podcast and episodes at wfyi.org/iwir or on the PBS app.

I'm Brandon Smith of Indiana Public Broadcasting.

Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend and join us next time because a lot can happen in an Indiana Week.

- The opinions expressed are solely those of the panelists.

Indiana Week in Review is a WFYI production in association with Indiana's public Broadcasting stations.