From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on January 16th when the film industry lost a luminary.

David Lynch, known for his surrealist storytelling and dreamlike imagery, died at the age of 78.

And if your social feeds are like mine, you've seen people honoring David Lynch by saying, well, at least we are now essentially living in Twin Peaks.

Perhaps you've heard the term Lynchian inspired by the enigmatic director's style.

It's come to transcend film and refer to anything strange or surreal.

For nearly half a century, Lynch's work influenced American culture, from his early film Eraserhead to, yes, Twin Peaks to his music.

As Hazel Kilz writes for NPR.

Quote.

To truly understand the signature weirdness of a David Lynch movie, you need to pay attention to the music and quote.

Whether you're a David Lynch superfan, as some of our guests are, or if you're not all that familiar with his work.

I mean, I know some, but not much.

I feel like I'm undereducated on this, and we're going to explore with our guests how it has influenced modern culture.

And we're going to preview an upcoming a little Lynch film series at the little theater.

That's all coming here.

Let me welcome our guest from the Little Theater.

Scott Lucas is communications director.

Welcome back.

Thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

And Candace Grimes, events coordinator.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Welcome to Tim, who is manager of the Dryden Theater at the George Eastman Museum.

Welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

Thank you.

And, you know, the Dryden's taken part in this wonderful event series as well.

So we'll talk about that as well.

And theater and Bullock is here as well.

Theo is a David Lynch fan.

Welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

Hi.

All right.

So, Scott, I mean, you haven't seen every lynch.

You haven't seen everything he's ever done, right?

Lynch is kind of a blind spot for me.

I have not seen as many as our other guest on here.

The encyclopedia.

So this is like one of the places, like, if you are getting educated, this is where you'd have to cram and study a little bit.

Yeah.

And I think the way to experience some of these David Lynch movies for the first time is on the big screen with that communal experience.

So I'm ready to join in with others here with this series that we're doing at the little and at the Dryden.

All right, Candace, what's coming up?

When does it start?

So we actually already kicked it off at the Dryden.

Eraserhead was the first one up.

the one, the first one at the little is going to be Mulholland Drive.

That's on Saturday, April 12th at 730.

And, yeah, I would say that's another pillar of of Lynch's work.

So going down the list here, Saturday, April 19th at the little The Short Films of David Lynch.

Wednesday, April 30th at the Dryden wild at Heart.

Friday, June 13th at the Dryden Lost Highway.

And Wednesday, July 16th at the little The Straight Story.

Candace, are you in the.

I know a lot.

I know a little I need to know more David Lynch category I. I am a huge fan of David Lynch.

I would say he's one of the greater influences on me as an artist.

I'm a photographer and visual artist as well.

yeah.

And I think he really taps into the subconscious.

I think that's he he uses visual symbolism, to sort of speak to people.

And that definitely influences me as a photographer, sort of using symbolism and archetypes and things like that.

and let me ask Tim and Theo for some opening comments, and then we're going to figure out what's the question that everybody who's been emailing me who killed Laura Palmer, I guess we're going to get that answer today.

Oh, no spoilers.

I think it's old enough, Tim.

How does Lynch rank for you?

David Lynch is is, one of my favorite directors, for sure.

One of the directors that when I was getting into film really just opened my mind to the possibilities of of film, opened my mind to certain emotions that typical movies don't explore these strange emotions that you typically have in dreams and that sort of thing.

just really opened up, the whole kind of world of surrealist film to me, and, is definitely an obsession.

I've had, for quite a while.

And what about you, Theo?

I love how much of David Lynch David Lynch brought of himself into this world, into this realm.

and so I have deep, deep respect for somebody that can bring their own interiority and vulnerability to like the, you know, the classical physical space of reality and have people understand it.

Like we were just saying, but, on like a visceral level.

Is there a particular film or something from his repertoire that stands out to you is at the top of it?

Yeah.

I mean, so I will say that I have not I'm not a super fan in the sense pretty much of anybody.

I see what I see.

but I love Twin Peaks.

It's a beautiful film that blends, like to me, it's sort of like a bizarro, like Seinfeld almost.

Yeah.

Like bizarre.

Yeah, it's like a really weird, like, set.

Like, it's like a sitcom, but, like, if it was a nightmare.

Yeah.

And so there's, like a little soap opera in there, too.

Totally.

Yeah.

what about you, Candice?

Top of the list.

Yeah.

So I love twin Peaks.

I especially love, The Return, which was on Showtime.

somewhat recently, I don't remember.

I think it was like 2000. maybe like 22. yeah.

So that actually, I think encapsulates a lot of Lynch's work.

Like, I feel like it explains a lot of his films as well.

Like, I feel like he really developed his mythos in that series, and was really allowed to play and do things he couldn't do with Twin Peaks being, I think it was a ABC, TV show at the time.

so I think you get a little deeper review into that.

And then I would say, as far as films go, Eraserhead, you know, is one of those movies that I watched and just it changed, like who I was as a person.

and it just has this visceral, you know, it's it's kind of like you were talking about, like the things that you don't want to look at or think about.

It's that lies deep in your subconscious.

it really taps into that.

And I think that's why that's a film that sticks with a lot of people.

Why?

How has Eraserhead changed you as a person?

Well, he he built a lot of the sets.

So this was actually a film that he made over several years.

while he was kind of still in school.

and so he used these, behind this abandoned building and stables.

and so a lot of it is very, like, sculptural.

So just just seeing your filmmaker really have a hand in every part and having this vision from start to finish.

yeah.

And I think it just speaks to me spiritually.

You know, it's it's that thing that you can't explain.

It's in.

It's just you feel it.

when you see it and I think that's had an effect on a lot of people.

And I think that's why a lot of people don't like it at the same time, because it's too much.

They don't want to go there.

They don't want to think about it.

it's disturbing.

yeah.

So I think especially for me as an artist, it just opened up this, you know, it gives you permission to really rely on your vision and your intuition.

Let me just before I get to to Tim and then the understudied Scott pukes on you.

I want to ask Theo a little bit.

I saw your reaction to Candace's point about there's some people who don't like it.

Some people are going to be uncomfortable is I don't know if I want to ask if that's a prerequisite for challenging or great art, but do you do you think that is a common component of really thoughtful art of any kind, that it is not going to be uniformly loved or praised?

It's going to have a range of reactions.

Yeah.

So I would say that.

Yeah.

I think it's are things that are common.

Are those able to be great and I don't I personally don't think that's true.

I think that there has to be a spectrum of intuition around a work of art that, you know, it's not going to be for everybody.

It just isn't.

And that's one of the beautiful things about the diversity of the world.

and the way that I experience David Lynch's work was very it was a both and it was very uncomfortable.

and in like a sort of like, like almost like, like a being a voyeur to my own dreams kind of way, where I was like, oh, this is happening, and I'm watching it, and I'm still watching it.

So it peaks that sort of curiosity in myself to wonder about what it is that I'm capable of experiencing.

why did it not push you to a point of discomfort where you had to turn it off?

Why did you say I'm acknowledging the discomfort?

But I need to see more.

Well, for one thing, it's not real.

So I forgot about it.

and, you know, in reflection, you know, I watched those things at a different I watched a lot of David Lynch when I was a little bit younger.

And I have, I have less of a capacity to, watch bizarro things now as much.

So I think that, like, I think it was also at a time in my life when that was, like, very extra fascinating to me.

But that being said, I mean, I work, I work in the bizarre and the surreal.

So, I just I do it now more than I watch it.

Understood.

Tim, is there a top of the mountain of David Lynch for you?

yeah.

I mean, my typical answer is Eraserhead as well.

That's one that's really spoken to me, particularly as a just really low budget film that's just incredibly impressive.

but I'm also really fond of towards the end of his career in terms of filmmaking.

he lost highway, Mulholland Drive, then his last film, Inland Empire.

They all really are not only surreal, but they're very puzzle like, and you can rewatch them in almost like infinite amount of times, and you always get more, in a way that some of his earlier films don't aren't quite as, puzzle like as, as those last films.

And, I mean, Mulholland Drive is definitely, for, for a lot of people is the top of the list.

And that's one that I couldn't watch Eraserhead all the time.

I could watch Mulholland Drive, like, every day.

It's so rewatchable.

So I'm curious to know if you think and if the panel thinks that, that we're still seeing films made like that to have that level of thoughtfulness, that puzzle like approach to where if you rewatch it, then you go, how did I miss this this time or I now I'm seeing this a different way.

and I, I'm asking for two reasons.

Number one, I mean, is, is anybody still doing that?

But number two, that takes a level of attention and engagement with the audience.

And I had this depressing interaction this past weekend with some 13 year olds at my son's birthday party.

I was like, you know, I was like the typical dad who's like, let's not break anything.

So maybe how about I put a movie on?

And one of the kids said, people our age don't watch movies anymore.

That takes forever.

That's like.

That's like a thing your your people your age doing.

That was like, oh my gosh, they can't first of I can't believe that's fully true.

But I was very worried about that.

But then I thought, how much thoughtful filmmaker are we going to have if we are training people to just scroll their phones all the time?

Or if you're on YouTube, there's always another video to go to.

I kids have told me I don't even finish watching a video.

I'm on to the next one, let alone watch a full movie.

So I'm this is me.

Like existentially like dreading, like where we are and where we're going.

Do you think, Tim, that, that there are David Lynch, either acolytes or analogs in the culture right now?

Oh, definitely.

I think David Lynch, in terms of being an inspiring filmmaker for young people, I would say a few years ago that kind of like I feel like Quentin Tarantino was like the stereotypical everybody in film school love school and turn to him.

I kind of feel like David Lynch is that now?

I mean, he's very, almost universally loved, and is perhaps, maybe, less prickly for people than Tarantino.

It might be nowadays.

and David Lynch has like, kind of, unlike some other film directors, he's also seems like he was a pretty great guy as well, which is important.

But, yeah, I think a lot of, this like new generation of filmmakers, the A24 film distribution company, a lot of stuff that they distribute and production company, Ari Aster's films, Robert Eggers, a lot of these big directors, indie directors are, David Lynch would definitely be one of the main influences on them.

I would say, okay.

you know, I can I ask the rest of the panel left?

I mean, I heard Jonathan Haidt, the psychologist who's written about the way kids are affected by digital media.

He was saying that it's actually a valuable thing for kids to be able at a young age, to be able to watch a movie all the way through.

And now he recommends doing it with people not in solitary, if possible, because that should be social experiences, etc.

but he said, that beats the heck out of giving a kid a phone at a very young age and saying just scroll, just scroll a feed doom scroll, look up YouTube.

and I'm hopeful that the little theaters, audiences, that Dryden's audiences, that all of our audiences will continue to be a wide range of ages.

But Candice, how do you see that?

Yeah, I think that's a tough one.

you know, a lot of it does just have to do with the attention span.

I think that's one of the the goals that the little you know, is we, we love seeing people come and bring their kids, especially kind of their, their, preteens, teenagers, and kind of expose them, you know, a lot of times the parents saying, like, oh, I really love this movie when I was your age.

And so, you know, I want you to come and experience it and, and kind of get your take on it.

And then it kind of starts that conversation.

yeah.

But I think left to their own devices, I'm not sure, you know, if they would seek it out, I think, David Lynch had a huge influence on me when I was around that age.

I saw Blue Velvet, probably at two.

Too young of an age.

and again, it just kind of like, opened up this whole new world for me.

and so I would hope that, you know, young adults and teenagers now, would hopefully have that experience.

And maybe it is with, some of the films that that you mentioned, you know, or filmmakers Eggers and, Ari Aster, I do think they're, they're doing similarly thoughtful sort of horror, but more psychological horror.

yeah.

But I think it's it's a tough one, especially with the subject matter.

I think you'd have to have some, some open minded parents, you know.

Yeah, I just I don't want all art to be instant gratification.

Oh, totally.

And so, Theo, am I being too cynical about where we're going as a culture?

you know, I have those moments to, I think it has a lot to do with, like, how we experience time.

if you're getting things in an accelerated rate, then you're experiencing time in a different way than somebody that can really sit in stillness.

I think David Lynch could probably speak to that way better than I could, because he was a transcendental meditator.

and so I think that those things are malleable just because you get one thing when you're young, it's makes a deep impression.

But, everything is changed.

So.

No, I don't think so.

Okay.

Scott, how do you feel about that?

Yeah.

I mean, we all want big multi-generational audiences, right?

Yeah.

I think I think there probably are a lot of filmmakers out there who want to make these weird films like David Lynch, like weird movies are my jam.

Like, we love showing those.

I love seeing those.

I think part of the problem, though, is getting that type of movie made.

there's a great new Apple, TV show called The Studio, Seth Rogen.

And there is a bit of a satire where, the head of the studio is like, okay, Barbie was real popular.

We need more IP.

Let's make a Kool-Aid man movie.

But recently, Warner Brothers announced that they're they're had.

It was like, we need more IP driven movie.

And so that is where a lot of the mainstream is going.

So less and less of these weird David Lynch type movies and more of, here's a superhero movie, here's the Kool-Aid man movie.

so I think those filmmakers are out there ready to make these influential, innovative movies, but the challenge is to get them made.

And that's why it helps to have people go to the little and try and support house movies and show show these studios that, yes, these movies are what people want to see.

Yeah, I think that's that's really well said.

It's also why we got decades of Marvel movies that started to look all the same.

All right.

I haven't seen a ton of them.

I'm assuming now, I didn't talk about movies I haven't seen.

I get that, but I mean, it's easy, right?

Like it's a franchise.

It's something that's simple.

It doesn't challenge you as much.

And I'm not denigrating.

If you love Marvel Movies listeners, that's great.

No problem.

But I love the full palette.

That's and I think Scott's point about what gets made, what gets funded, what gets greenlit, what do people who have the power and the money, the film fund itself, think that the public wants?

So by the way, do you have I mean, you have the thinner David Lynch knowledge.

Is there something that pops to mind for you?

Yeah, I really like Mulholland Drive.

That was the first one I watched and I was a teen.

I was pretty young and I was into movies with plot twist and someone's like, oh, well, my drive has a great plot twist that that's occurred.

And I was like, oh, wait, no, it it was that's not the type of movie it is really the same plot twist.

Yeah, I was very confused.

My friends liked it, so I watched it again later, knowing what it was.

And it's real, like dreamlike and surreal.

like a lot of Lynch's other works.

And, I just really enjoyed it.

I like that type of movie that doesn't walk you through the plot like it kind of.

It goes in a bunch of different directions.

and I've never watched it on a on the big screen, so I'm excited.

again, that's April 12th.

That's the first one we have at the little for the series.

I think, again, you know, I mentioned this earlier, but watching that with with an audience, of both Lynch fans and people watching it for the first time, I think is really an experience that you can't duplicate just watching these at home.

so I'm excited to to see that again.

Brian Rice to say, I still don't know who killed Laura Palmer.

Who is Laura Palmer?

So again, I, I, I was too nervous to watch Twin Peaks.

This is Twin Peaks.

Right.

So we are here so that was a big thing, I guess, on the show.

Who killed Laura.

That's the that's the crux of the show.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's that's the thread.

That's the starting action.

Yeah.

an FBI agent is sent to investigate the murder of Laura Palmer, in the small town Twin Peaks.

And he encounters all these characters and, subplots and storylines and.

Yeah.

And this was an ABC show you mentioned.

I think it is.

Yes, I believe so.

I find that really interesting because this is back the 90s.

I think right now that ABC could have someone with that repertoire that Lynch had and make it work within what network broadcast television was in the 90s.

So there probably were things that some limitations.

Oh yeah, but but the fans of Twin Peaks didn't complain about that.

I mean, he created something pretty amazing with those constraints.

Yeah, I will say season two, you see a lot of that.

he did have a partner, Mark Frost, that he worked with.

And I think that really helped balance out sort of, you get these really heady, David Lynch concepts.

But then, you know, like we were saying, there's a little bit of, like a sitcom.

There's a little bit of a soap opera.

yeah.

So I think in season one, he definitely has a stronger hand in sort of shaping, his vision.

And then I think in season two, they, they really pushed him to say who Laura Palmer's killer is.

Oh, you got the network.

Ted's like the people in lost.

Like you got to explain that smoke, man.

Yes.

Yeah.

And so I think he kind of, loosened the reins a little bit, and other people sort of stepped in, and and towards the end, it wasn't the best.

but that's that's why I think the return is a great redemption for him in that sense.

Where they really just let him do whatever he wanted.

I mean, you do learn who killed Laura Palmer at the end of Twin Peaks.

You do sort of.

I mean, yes, you do, but yeah, but dot dot dot.

Yeah.

I want to watch a whole series because they said you do.

Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

It's not the most satisfying.

But I think when you follow it through with his other works and, and when you see the return, you kind of get what he wanted to do because I mean, we've talked lost on this.

Did you watch Twin Peaks all the way through?

I know I watched a couple episodes when I was work at news eight.

I would get home late at night and I would put it on TV and try to watch some of it, but I didn't.

I didn't fully stick with it as I was kind of in a tired state of mind, but I but it seems like a precursor to this idea that you've got this fan interest in the different, the weird, the funky, the twisty, and then the network suits obsess over people like me.

You know, the, the not very sophisticated viewers are like, I just want to know what the Dharma Initiative is, as opposed to, like, not realizing that what I really cared about was great storytelling.

I cared about really thoughtful, interesting storytelling, pushing my limits, creating characters I cared about that had depth that were not one dimensional.

And so over time, I've I've softened a little, little.

I've lost the.

But it sounds like Twin Peaks is in that category where people are like, well, you better tell me who killed Laura Palmer.

I mean, it's like, is that what made it?

It was.

Is that what made a great.

I'm wondering who who was behind this mystery, or was it everything else that was associated with it?

Yeah.

the, David Lynch himself actually referred to the mystery of Laura Palmer as like the golden goose of the show.

And why would you want to kill the thing that is fueling the show?

which is a great anecdote, but, Yeah, I mean, Twin Peaks was kind of revolutionary in that it was a crime procedural show where you don't find out who the killer is in the original episode.

And, when they actually filmed the pilot, they forced them to film two versions, one where they show the killer and one where they don't reveal it, and they ended up playing the one where they don't reveal it.

you can find the other one if you want, but smart call, by the way, Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Very smart.

and if they wouldn't have forced them to reveal it, it would have been a much more interesting, season two.

But, there's also Fire Walk with me, which is the the movie that's in between the second and third season, which the third season was in 2018. so it's 25 years later, but, and that movie is also about the, the murder.

And it kind of explains it in a satisfying way.

Yeah.

Fills in some gaps for.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, let me read a little bit of feedback from David Lynch, admirer Sarah Abu Monte, who is one of our colleagues here at.

She sends me this.

She says, for me, there are two primary things that stick out about Lynch's work.

First is that most of it appears completely unbound, and Lynch's openness to different ways of thinking and experiencing the world is what leads to some of the greatest moments in his work.

But there are constraints or guardrails to his world.

By using the surreal and the absurd, he implores us to look beneath the surface, to imagine different ways of being, of communicating, and of being in relationship with others.

Lynch rightly confronts us, and I'm thinking particularly of the opening to Blue Velvet here, with the rot that often underlies our mythos.

It is only through interrogating ourselves, our beliefs, our bodies, our language that we can begin to deconstruct these illusions of self and by extension, society.

But can we ever really trust what we perceive as real?

Who is more real?

Henry Spencer or the lady in the radiator?

Who is the real Betty who actually killed Laura Palmer?

All straightforward questions without straightforward answers.

Secondly, any lynch work is a masterclass on immersive filmmaking.

This is not just a plug for seeing the upcoming a little Lynch films exploring Lynch's work, which for me started with the original twin Peaks TV series with that fantastic score by Angelo Battlement.

And Lynch's own sound design is what introduced me to the power of sound to drive story, to evoke emotions and atmospheres, and to encode details for the audience that are beyond mere dialog.

A Lynch work is a full sensory experience.

Watch the roadhouse sweeping scene from Twin Peaks The Return.

It's absolutely brilliant, and I'm sure we'll still be debating its meaning and context for years to come.

And I think that that's one of the biggest gifts that Lynch gave us the compulsion to peel back the layers, to suspend our filters, to always look or listen closely.

Who is the dreamer?

And from Sarah, why isn't she on here right now?

So amazing.

Right?

That's pretty good.

That was incredible.

Yeah, I was going to say the exact same thing.

Yeah, I took the words out of my mouth.

Yeah, I'm.

We're gonna see if she can come down.

You're disinvited.

Yeah.

You know, that's that's, Kudos.

I mean, that's a, I think a really beautiful tribute to, an artist that she really admires.

Anything, Candace, anything stand out about that particular critique that you think hits the mark for you?

Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of his work does kind of deal with the underbelly, you know, like that, especially in, Blue Velvet, which she mentioned.

You know, it's it's kind of the dark side of suburbia or, you know, there's the surface and then there's what's underneath that we don't want to look at.

And, so much of his work really does focus on that.

And I think it was so well said there.

So it's kind of dark side and everything has a dark side.

It's kind of with with Lynch's work, it's like there's two worlds, you know, it's it's we're in the, the real world.

but then there's this other world and there these forces, you know, he focuses a lot on, like, the dark forces, kind of like a demon.

Not at not demon, but like in the Greek demon, which is like a god or like fate, some sort of powerful influence.

And so, you know, it's these people just kind of going about their lives and then there being these sort of sinister influences on them and, and then getting their reaction that we're see, even if they're perceiving that it is happening.

and that's a lot in the Lynchian sort of mythos is it's, it's explained, I think, in Twin Peaks The Return with the, the cream corn that they the rose.

Yeah.

Mosiah.

So it's essentially these, these demons that feed on pain and sorrow, and it comes out as this sort of creamed corn, Subst dence.

and so that's, that's kind of what it is like.

That's, that's what he's saying is that there are these, these forces that, that want you to be afraid and, and sad, so that they can feed on it.

Anything you want to add there, Tim?

yeah.

I mean, David Lynch is very good at depicting evil and dark forces, but he's also actually very good at depicting goodness, I think, as well.

which is it's easy to fixate on how good he is at depicting disturbing things because he really is good at it.

but there's there's parts of his films that are so beautiful and touching and sweet as well.

and in Twin Peaks, too, that the main character, Dale Cooper, is, genuine role model for the audience, I think not just, just, protagonist.

So, yeah, I wanted to highlight that as well.

Yeah.

There's always these kind of cosmic forces of good and evil.

Absolutely.

Anything you want to add there, Theo?

that's just got me thinking about how, you know, Like, thinking about how the our ability to deal with reality and is coupled with, like, our inability to name certain things that you see characters in these films or in these shows grappling with experiencing, reacting to evil or, like a, B, a, B and A can never say that word.

Beautiful image.

and then not necessarily having the name for it or not necessarily being able to answer the questions that we as the audience want desperately to be answered.

And so that's just speaks to the unnamed ability, I think, of these forces that he shows.

And to tie back into what you began with the his ability to use visual storytelling as a way to evoke.

But Theo, what does it say about viewers like me who, you know, you talked about confronting discomfort, knowing it's not real, but it's kind of sitting with discomfort as a viewer.

what does it say about me that's so often lately what I choose is easy.

It might be a, you know, an old sitcom, something familiar.

And I'm not going.

I mean, like even severance that we talked about shows like that.

I, I'm like, today's the day I want to I really want to kind of immerse.

And then I go, I don't know if I like mentally, I don't know if I can get there.

And so like David Lynch, I would love to learn more.

I'd love to be really well-educated, but everything he's done and then I go, like, I don't know if I can do it.

What does that say about like, is it just me and my weak and Evan?

I can't answer the questions that are inside of you.

That's a psychological question.

I think I can say that I experienced that for sure.

And that you.

Yeah.

You don't know until you try.

I think first of all, it's certainly true.

You don't know until you try it.

And my guess is Lynch severance things in those categories.

I'd probably sit down and, and after 30 or 60 minutes go, that was amazing.

I wish do more of that.

I also feel like there are times where when things feel kind of angsty or when you feel a lot of dread, it's easy to choose like an old comfort blanket.

Like, I mean, do you ever do that?

Scott?

Yeah, I think a comfort show is absolutely something you turn to be like, just if you're, you don't know what to watch, but you want to watch something that.

Yeah, that's familiar.

But I think Lynch can be a comfort.

I think Twin Peaks is a comfort show.

That's, maybe if you haven't watched it, that's that's obviously a different story.

But I think for some that is the comfort of that is the program they turn to when they're in that mood.

But if the world is too much like a David length Lynch movie, I, I might need a sitcom.

I don't.

Yeah, well, I think like to this point, that's why it's so great to experience these films in a theater.

because you're really going into this psychological space where it's a dark room and it's this communal experience where you're all having these very visceral reactions and emotions.

And I think, yeah, if you're sitting down to watch it at home, you might, you know, start getting on your phone or get distracted by something else.

And I think especially with his work, it's it's really important to be immersed.

So I think getting in the right headspace, will definitely be helpful when you're sort of trying to watch a David Lynch film, especially if you're trying to understand it and Tim, watch on your own or with company.

Oh, definitely with company.

I mean, there is no substitution for the movie theater experience, for my perspective.

And, David Lynch was actually a very vocal proponent of not watching movies on your phone and that sort of thing.

There's you can find some clips of him talking about this, but, yeah, he, he was very passionate about the movie theater.

And, a lot of his films have, qualities that are playing off of tropes, like from the movie theater itself, like the red curtains that recur throughout his work.

there's actually, like, projector bulbs that show up in his work and stuff.

So he, like, really, admires the cinema.

And so it's clear, like there's no replacement for it.

And not only because of visual, but I think especially because of sound.

it's really hard to get good sound at home.

And that's, the immersive sound of the movie theater is really key for a David Lynch film, for sure.

Well, after we take our only break of the hour, I've got some more listener feedback as we talk about David Lynch, who passed away a couple of months ago, and, his work is being celebrated in a film series.

It's the Dryden and the little a Voltron of awesome as part of this series.

You guys can use that to.

I think we still.

That's pretty good.

The next one coming up Saturday, April 12th.

That's a couple Saturdays from now.

Mulholland drive at the little and then the little in the drive.

And you're going to be sharing more of David Lynch's work.

as the weeks go on.

They're calling it a little lynch over at the little I like that.

but, we'll have a link if you want to take a look at the calendar coming up for that.

We've got a couple clips to share with you after this break as well.

If you want to hear a little bit more of Lynch and the Lynch effect, and we'll share more your feedback on the other side of this break.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Thursday on the next connections, we welcome members of the Pittsford Town Board.

Pittsford is a place where there's been a lot of debate in recent years about housing, who can build what and where, single family multifamily homes, how it's zoned.

It gets a little wonky, but it is important.

And we're going to talk about what is changing.

Thursday.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Carolla Center, proud supporter of connections with Evan Dawson, believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary Carey, ola.org.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson, John in Pittsford, calls in to say if you want a good insight into Lynch, check out his FBI character portrayal from Twin Peaks.

Yeah, I love it so much.

Okay.

That's amazing.

for a second there, so it was like, yes, yes.

And Thea was like, really?

so is this, like, not a main character?

Is this she is a main character and yeah, he's Dale Cooper's boss, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Assessing what you said.

Auditor early.

Yeah, yeah.

So, so this is, in John's view, a pretty good insight into David Lynch's skill.

Why do you think so, Candice?

Well, you really get a sense of his personality.

I feel like he based the character a lot on himself.

he's a very distinct way of speaking.

he's a great sort of comedic pause.

I think any time that characters, on screen, which is interesting because a lot of times he's talking about murder and crime and things like that.

But yeah, you get you get to see him interact with comic Laughlin that plays Dale Cooper and they they work really well off, one another.

But but yeah, I think it's, you know, kind of our first time seeing him on screen.

and you just can't help but love him, you know?

Okay.

Go ahead.

Tim.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think so.

The character gold at Gordon Cole in Twin Peaks, who.

Yeah, becomes increasingly important as you watch the show.

it's, you know, such a dark and troubling show at times.

And then the creator of the show comes on as a character, and he's like the funniest character in the whole series, in my opinion.

I mean, he's just, like, incredibly funny.

He's also he's not just comedic relief, but, yeah, just everything about him.

He wears hearing aids and stuff.

He can't hear very well.

And so he's constantly shouting at people, and it's really very funny.

we haven't really talked about humor as part of the Lynch playbook.

There's humor there, there.

Of course.

I mean, like, I love the idea that because Scott, Scott and I, who are not as deep into David Lynch, I have this idea that it's always a grind, like, it's like every episode is just a grind, but, you know, okay.

Yeah.

He does have a great, humorous, humorous, cameo role in Steven Spielberg's most recent movie, The Fabelmans.

so he shows up at the end, in a cameo role.

And it kind of it is like the house version of Avengers or a superhero movie where someone shows up on screen and everyone cheers and applause.

Yeah, that was our our screening at the little of The Fabelmans.

When David Lynch comes in and appears at the ad and kind of steals a few scenes, like right at the very, very end of that movie that people that's like the arthouse version of, I guess, Avengers or Spider Man.

Everyone just goes crazy with applause.

Well, here's, our colleague Mona Secreto salami down the hall.

at classical 91 five, a David Lynch fan who wanted to send the following.

She said, sure, there's surrealism, a specific sort of American surrealism, and he's created some of the darkest, weirdest images that live in my brain.

But there's also such a goodness and a wholesomeness and belief in the beautiful and the good, along with a love or worship of classical Hollywood that is expressed so richly.

And his films in his films that, as I say, he has included some of the creepiest images, but he has both in his works and his in his comments.

Put forward some of the things that are the most encouraging and life affirming.

He also has great taste of music and it makes amazing use of sound especially.

You can hear that that Razor Head and Twin Peaks The Return.

So that's that's Mona, kind of the, the different sides, the dark and the holes.

Wholesomeness is an interesting word, but I think we should talk about coffee and pie because we haven't mentioned that.

And they're very important to Twin Peaks.

And I think that kind of gets to that where it's like Dale Cooper just purely enjoys a good cup of coffee in a slice of pie.

So even though there's all this happening, he's investigating this murder.

You know, all these characters.

He can go to the diner and have a good cup of coffee and a slice of pie.

so I just think it's a message about sort of like taking those moments where you can, you know, and and fully enjoying the things that you enjoy.

Do you know how committed you have to be, both as the creator and then in the audience to even realize that he's telling you more than just there's a cup of coffee and a piece of pie.

There's a consistent message.

I just love that.

And Mona, I could tell slimey is someone else I could just listen to talk about anything.

So, yeah, she's amazing.

we love you, man.

And that's great stuff there.

we've got a couple of clips to share with you that our guests have helped pick out.

The first is from Lost Highway, and, we're going to listen to this scene now, again, this is not a film I've seen, but Fred Madison, jazz saxophonist, shares an affectionate relationship with his wife, Renee.

But his life changes when he receives a threatening message from a mysterious man.

And this is a clip from a party in the film featuring Fred and that man.

We've met before, haven't we?

I don't think so.

Where was it you think we met?

At your house.

Don't you remember?

No, no, I don't now.

You sure?

Of course.

As a matter of fact, I'm there right now.

What do you mean?

You're aware right now?

At your house.

Call me.

Dial your number.

Go ahead.

I told you I was here.

And you do that.

Well, I think it gives me chills just listening to the same.

The sound mixing, right.

About.

Yeah.

Impending sense of doom.

Yeah.

And their voices.

The way that their voices are extremely similar.

But there's just, like one note in the voices that's different to me and to my ears.

Feels so just like such a mind fudge.

Thanks.

That's a really interesting observation.

Yeah.

That's, Well, let me just zoom out a little bit, though.

For those who haven't seen Lost Highway, you want to tell us a little bit more about that?

Sure.

Yeah.

So in this scene, this character has gone to this party with his wife.

He steps away from his wife for a moment, gets a drink, and, you can hear the sounds of the party.

There's music.

And then this man comes up.

I don't believe there's a visual.

So, just to visualize it, the man has a very pale face.

It doesn't look natural.

And as soon as he walks up, the music and the sound of the party just like, cuts out of the film, and, you know, he obviously kind of does this, very creepy thing to this man.

This is the first time we've met this character, and then that happens, he calls him at his house, and then he walks away.

and we see him later in the film, but it's just a very, interesting and totally intrusion to the scene.

Even in listening to that one clip, which is all I've ever heard from The Lost Highway, it has me going like, is this real?

Or is this like, again, is this on some kind of alternate plane going on here?

Right?

Yeah.

Doesn't he see that man's face on his wife like before?

That is the first appearance.

Yeah, yeah.

So he was being intimate with his wife and gets this flash of this oh.

Horrible face.

Oh, and so it's that man that then approaches him and is like, hey, I saw you at your house.

Yeah.

You know, so it's.

Yeah, it's a little bit of uncanny, spooky.

It's not what you want in a moment.

No, it's not what you want.

No, no, that's not not optimal.

you can see Lost Highway, by the way, as part of the upcoming series at the Dryden, if you want to mark the calendar for Friday, June 13th, again, see it in the theater.

Right.

Tim Miller yes, definitely.

Come on and on.

Film as well on 35 millimeter film.

archives.

And the series is going to wrap in July, July 16th with the straight story.

I had never heard of this one.

We got a clip from the Straight Story.

he did a G-rated film for Disney, a G-rated Disney movie, and.

This came out in 1999 to best movie year ever.

So.

So is that right?

Yeah.

Is that like like what people in film say 99 was the best ever.

Yeah, well, there's a book about it.

How 1999 is best year.

I agree with that.

So I always tell everyone, okay, is rolling your eyes a little bit?

I talk about the best year in.

It might have just been the best year for the world stacked downhill from there.

But now that you know the best is yet to come.

Okay, so here's a little bit of background here.

A G-rated film here for Disney about a retired farmer and a widower in his 70s.

His name is Alvin Straight.

He learns one day that his distant brother, Lyle has suffered a stroke and may not recover.

So Alvin wants to make things right with his brother.

Doesn't have a car.

There's no way to get from Iowa to Wisconsin.

So he has an idea he's going to ride his trusty old lawnmower there.

And this is a clip from the beginning of that journey.

Alvin, what are you setting now?

Can you hear?

That you're going to get blown off the ride on the road?

That's what I'm afraid.

You'll never make it past the grotto.

Straight story, I mean.

Scott, have you seen this?

I haven't seen this one.

But we were talking about before the show that we want to encourage someone to ride a lawnmower from the dried into the little to come on the.

That's permission, you know.

Has anybody in the room seen this one I yeah, yeah, a few times and, it's great.

It's great.

as we were talking about the wholesomeness, the goodness, this is that part of David Lynch without any of the darkness or, you know, there's nothing like surrealist or Lynchian.

No, no, it it as it says, it's a straight story.

there's some parts that might feel a little bit, Lynchian, but not in terms of surrealism or nightmares or anything like that.

Yeah, I think the road is a symbol in, in, in Lynch's work.

So I think that's a little bit of a connection.

You know, if you think about you know, just lost Highway and Wild at heart and, you know, but yeah, I haven't actually seen straight Story though.

Oh, wow.

I just got the thought that, like, if his whole work, if you symbolize it as like pieces of a road, that's like the part of the road, right?

Like nothing bad happens on this part of the road, you know, go to the fork.

You're you're sane, straight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's right.

It's.

You guys are amazing.

Jay writes in to say one great thing about David Lynch that we can revisit from was his long series of weather reports from Los Angeles.

His dispatches did opine on weather conditions, but also conditions of the spirit of place.

With a twinkle in his eye, David always invites us into conversations, into landscapes both inner and outer.

Okay, so the weather reports were amazing during the pandemic.

It was like such a source of joy, I feel.

So this was a pandemic activity.

He took up.

I think he was doing it before but it really started trending.

you know, because everybody was just on the internet and nobody could leave.

So it just kind of became one of those bright spots where it's like David Lynch is still out there doing his thing.

We can do it.

That's coming.

Yeah, that's a comfort.

Roger writes to say I'm not too familiar with David Lynch's work.

I'm very familiar with John Waters work.

He's my favorite writer and director, and that he forces us very hilariously, to look at our own puritanical and even dark sides.

Are your guests familiar with John Waters work?

Yeah, yeah, well, not to the level of Lynch, perhaps.

Yeah.

They're both from, or not from Bay, but both resided in, I think, Philadelphia for a while.

So that's kind of interesting connection, but Or.

No, no, I'm sorry, John Waters is from Baltimore, but, there's some visual similarities in terms of dilapidated industrial landscapes that they use.

John Waters is much more comedic, and much more, cynical I would say, too, but he's so charming, so.

Well, as we get ready to wrap here, I want to let our guests talk a little bit more about why they if they want to try to convince you, or if they think that you would benefit from bringing some David Lynch into your world, if you haven't already.

David Lynch passed away at the age of 78 just a couple of months ago, and the Dryden and the little are teaming up for this film series that has already started.

You missed Eraserhead, which apparently is like the top of the list here at home.

Yeah.

but you got a lot more to come.

Mulholland Drive is next.

The short films of David Lynch, Wild at Heart, Lost Highway, The Straight Story, all Coming Your Way at The Little or the Dryden.

And, you should check out their websites and we'll have links in our show notes so you can check out the upcoming series.

but and I apologize, you know, Scott knows I get stuck on these themes like lost, but like, I'm thinking about, you know, what kind of a bad viewer I was for six years of a show that I claimed to love, but then I just demanded answers to stuff that in the end, didn't really matter without realizing I was in it for totally different reasons.

I was in it because I did love great storytelling.

I did love the characters.

I didn't need everything to be tied up with this perfect bow, that I could accept that I wasn't going to get answers to certain things that I once thought were interesting.

If it took me somewhere, if it made me feel something or think something, and I just want to ask you to kind of talk a little bit about, what is in your, your eyes the first ingredient of something great.

I mean, do you need great storytelling?

Do you have to have a dynamic or great character?

Can it be something atmospheric or surreal or different?

you know, what's the what's the measure of that for you, Scott?

Oh, yeah.

That's that's a tricky one.

Yeah.

I like, I mean, I definitely think the storytelling aspect, and not necessarily the details of what happened.

So if I haven't seen something in a while, like some of these lynch ones I have seen, but like Lost Highway, but it's been so long it's I don't remember exactly like plot details, but I remember how I feel and felt when I watched it, and especially the clip that we played.

I remember just getting chills and being creeped out.

So that is what sticks with me.

That feeling of, you know, what emotions are going through me when I'm watching.

So I like those are elements of the storytelling, like how a filmmaker can evoke that from a person, whether it's whatever emotion, whether you're laughing or crying, you know, whatever it is.

I think those emotions really are the key to a good story and a good film.

What's a sitcom that you've seen every episode of all the way through?

Seinfeld.

Okay, if you went back and watched a random episode from season three, season four, you might you might say to yourself, I've watched this so many times, I don't remember this plot, but you'll remember that you loved the show for different reasons.

It's the same thing is, even doesn't have to be like a David Lynch.

I've seen it once.

Even the stuff you've seen a ton of, it's amazing.

You go back and you go, how do I not remember this plot?

Or how do I not remember that this happened?

I've seen it a bunch.

But you remember how it made you feel?

Yeah.

And watching it again, like, if it's Seinfeld or whatever, you'll laugh just like you did the first time.

And it's the same with with David Lynch or another filmmaker that you adore, or to that you watch it.

I'm like, man, I love this just as much as that very first time.

And sometimes even more.

You appreciate it more.

You're like, oh yeah, it's just such a good scene.

I mean, do you remember the Kramer Enema episode?

Yes.

Oh you do?

Okay, well, see, I thought that this just given you a random on the, feel in terms of creation of art, is there one ingredient that matters most here?

Honesty.

That's really interesting.

Yeah.

I don't think that it's possible to be dishonest.

and make art that can speak for yourself.

What's it saying.

Candice you want to add to that.

Yeah.

Actually I'm in a similar vein of thinking because I think what makes David Lynch so great is that he does have this vision and he's very authentic and true to himself.

and that's why you don't see him doing a lot of studio films.

You know, he did.

He did Dune.

but there was a little bit of friction because of that, because they really tried to put him in a box.

and so I think with other films, it's the same when you see, you know, this filmmaker really creating from start to finish, this singular vision.

and there's an authenticity there.

So even it doesn't matter what the subject matter is.

again, like going back to what Scott said, it's it's how it makes you feel.

and also, you know, just just sort of receiving that message and connecting with that artist in that way.

Tim.

Yeah.

I think, and this is something David Lynch would say often is one of the main things that drives art is ideas.

And he would, meditate until he got an idea for a lot of his films.

That's how he came up with a lot of his concepts.

And, that's I really think that's key to his work is, and all all great art is having an idea, and it doesn't even have to make sense in terms of our usual, sense of the word.

it can be a subconscious idea, a dream like idea, but to have a really strong idea, and to, you know, infuse it with emotion and sincerity, I think is is key.

Well, I hope, you have a lot of folks having finding that community, seeing this together.

I mean, it's one thing to stream everything.

We were in a stream.

Everything world.

But I know I'm a homer for the little.

And I love the Dryden.

But see it in person, be with people, have that experience together when you can it it really matters.

Tim.

Be great having you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

you'll find me over at the the Dryden Theater, the George Eastman Museum from the Little Scott Podcast.

Candace Grimes, thank you for being here.

Thanks for having us.

And theater and be like, thank you for sharing your insights this hour as well.

Thanks for having me.

And from all of us at connections.

Thank you for listening.

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