♪ ♪ >> TWO UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE ALUMS UNITE TO FORM AN ANTI-RACISM COALITION IN KENTUCKY FOCUSED ON ROOTING OUT INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT POLICIES.

A CONVERSATION WITH TERRANCE SULLIVAN AND O.J.

OLEKA NEXT ON CONNECTIONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR CONNECTIONS TODAY.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THE LOUISVILLE PROTESTS OVER THE POLICE KILLING OF BREONNA TAYLOR IN THE SUMMER OF 2020 PROMPTED TWO U OF L ALUMS FROM DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM TO TEAM UP TO ADDRESS SYSTEMIC RACISM IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

EACH OF THESE MEN HAS BEEN ON CONNECTIONS, AS YOU KNOW, IN RECENT MONTHS, REPRESENTING THEIR WORK ORGANIZATIONS USUALLY BUT TODAY THEY'RE HERE TO TELL BUS A GRASSROOTS MOVEMENT THAT WILL HELP WRITE, SUPPORT AND PASS LEGISLATION IN KENTUCKY THAT UPENDS RACIAL INEQUITIES.

I'M GLAD TO WELCOME ANTI-RACISM KENTUCKY FOUNDERS TERRANCE SULLIVAN AND O.J.

OLEKA.

IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU GENTLEMEN WITH ME TODAY, IN DIFFERENT CAPACITIES THAN WE'VE HAD YOU ON BEFORE BUT NONETHELESS, WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AN HONOR.

>> AN HONOR TO BE HERE.

>> Renee: FIRST OF ALL, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU BECAUSE I HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO FORMALLY SAY THAT TO YOU ALL.

AND IT'S BEEN A HECK OF A YEAR SO FAR.

AT THE TIME THAT WE TAPED THIS CONVERSATION, IT WAS A DAY BEFORE THE NEW ADMINISTRATION OF PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN AND VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS WERE TO TAKE THE REINS AND I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR PERSPECTIVES ON THE EVENTS THAT RECENTLY HAPPENED AND HOW THIS MIGHT HELP FUEL AND ENERGIZE YOUR WORK BUT I WANT TO START FIRST WITH UNDERSTANDING HOW YOU TWO MET.

I KNOW YOU ARE RELATIVELY CLOSE IN AGE, AND WHEN DID YOU DECIDE, HEY, WE NEED TO STAND UP AND TEAM UP TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?

I'LL LET O.J.

GO FIRST.

>> YOU CAN HANDLE HOW WE MET.

YOU TELL IT BETTER THAN I DO.

>> IT'S BENEFICIAL TO ME, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.

WE MET AS STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE IN C.I.S.

100.

TERRANCE SAT IN FRONT OF ME, A LOT SMARTER THAN ME AND THE REASON I GOT A B IN THAT CLASS.

I THOUGHT IF HE IS GOING TO HELP ME THEM, I SHOULD KEEP HIM AROUND IN MY LIFE.

WE MET WHEN WE WERE UNDERGRADUATE STUDENTS AND STAYED FRIEND EVER SINCE.

>> Renee: DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT, TERRANCE ABOUT THE UNTOLD PART THAT O.J.

IS NOT GOING TO SHARE?

>> SO THE UNTOLD PART, I GUESS IS WE DID, AND THIS COMES FULL CIRCLE TO THIS, WE ALSO DID THE FRANKFORT POLICY INTERNSHIP TOGETHER AND WE DID OUR-- WE WERE CAR MATES.

SO WE WOULD DRIVE UP TWICE A WEEK TOGETHER AND THAT WAS WHEN WE WOULD HAVE SOME INTERESTING POLITICAL CONVERSATIONS AND SO THAT REALLY LED TO KIND OF FURTHER CONNECTION TALKING ABOUT THE POLITICAL WORLD AND JUST WHERE WE SIT ON THAT SPECTRUM.

>> Renee: SO BOTH OF YOU ALL DID WORK FOR THE LEGISLATIVE RESEARCH COMMISSION, WHICH IS REALLY THE HEARTBEAT OF THE CAPITOL, ESPECIALLY WHEN LAWMAKERS ARE IN SESSION, SO MUCH THAT STAFF DOES TO HELP PREPARE LAWMAKERS, WHETHER IT'S BILL DRAFTING AND COMMITTEE PREPARATION, ALL OF THAT, YOU WERE PART OF THAT DRUMBEAT AND GOT TO FORM A TIGHTER PARTNERSHIP, I GUESS SO O.J., WHEN DID YOU REALIZE WHEN YOU LOOK BACK ON 2020 AND GEORGE FLOYD, BREONNA TAYLOR, WHEN DID IT STRIKE YOU THAT YOU NEEDED TO USE YOUR INFLUENCE, YOUR MANY PACT AND YOUR ROLE AND YOUR WORK SPACE TO HELP ELEVATE THIS CONVERSATION AROUND INSTITUTIONAL RACISM AND UPENDING IT.

>> THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION MAY 11 MY DAUGHTER WAS BORN AND MY DAUGHTER WAS GOING TO BE MULTIRACIAL.

SHE IS GOING TO BE BLACK BECAUSE OF ME, BROWN, FILIPINO AND WHITE BECAUSE OF HER MOTHER AND SHE IS GOING TO BE MULTIETHNIC.

I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO TO LOOK AT MY DAUGHTER AND SAY DIFFICULT WHAT I COULD, WHEN I HAD INFLUENCE, WHEN I HAD POWER FOR PEOPLE WHO NOT ONLY LOOK LIKE YOUR FATHER, BUT ALSO LOOK LIKE YOU.

AND LOOK LIKE YOUR MOTHER.

THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO TELL HER AND THOSE BECAME FRONT AND CENTER WHEN WE STARTED TO LOOK AT THE DEATHS OF GEORGE FLOYD AND AHMAUD ARBERY AND BREONNA TAYLOR IN PARTICULAR AND SAW HOW THE COUNTRY REACTED TO THEM.

PROTESTS AROUND THE NATION, EVERY STATE, INCLUDEING D. DR. AND TOWNS IN KENTUCKY.

AND I THOUGHT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I PLAYED MY ROLE.

BUT I ALSO WANTED TO DO THIS FROM A CONSERVATIVE PERSPECTIVE.

I WANTED TO MAKE SURE IT WAS BIPARTISAN IN THAT EFFORT.

THAT CONSERVATIVES WERE BROUGHT TO THE TABLE AND I WANT TO SHARE A QUICK STORY.

WHEN PHILANDO CASTILE WAS KILLED FOUR YEARS AGO, I HAD A CONVERSATION IN MY CAR, BECAUSE MY BOSS AT THE TIME, STATE TREASURER ALLISON BALL, CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN, CALLED ME AND SHE SAID I WANTED TO CHECK ON YOU.

I SAW THIS SITUATION AND I THOUGHT THIS COULD HAVE BEEN YOU.

THIS COULD HAVE BEEN MY FRIEND.

SO I KNEW THAT WE HAD BEEN HAVING CONVERSATIONS, AT LEAST ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE AISLE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, ON WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO HANDLE THESE SITUATIONS.

AND I THOUGHT THIS IS THE MOMENT.

THIS IS THE TIME AND THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY WHEN PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON IT.

I WANTED TO MAKE SURE IT WAS AN EFFORT DONE WITH FIDELITY AND FULL FAITH AND WORKING WITH THE OTHER SIDE.

>> Renee: YOU KNOW, I WANT TO PUT A PIN RIGHT THERE BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO WOULD THINK THAT CONSERVATIVES OR REPUBLICANS HAVE COME TO THIS MOVEMENT, AS JOHNNY COME LATELIES AND THEY QUESTION THEIR ALTRUISM, THEY QUESTION THEIR MOTIVES BEHIND BEING INVOLVED, WHAT IS THE END GAME AND THE GOAL FOR THEM.

CAN YOU, PERHAPS, SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ABOUT HOW CONSERVATIVES ARE, PERHAPS MORE COMMITTED TO SOCIAL JUSTICE AND UPENDING RACIAL INEQUITIES THAN SOME MAY THINK?

>> WELL ABSOLUTELY.

QUITE FAIPGLY WOULD I SAY IT IS LESS OF A JANE OR JOHNNY COME LATELY TO A JANE AND JOHNNY COME BACK.

THIS IS WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN PARTICULAR, LOOKING AT THE POLITICAL LENS WAS FOUNDED ON.

THIS WAS IN THE 1800s, ABRAHAM LINCOLN, JOHN C. FREE MONT TO NERD OUT WITH YOU AND YOUR WATCHERS, BUT THIS IS WHAT THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY WAS FOUNDED ON.

IT WAS FOUNDED ON ABOLITION.

IT WAS FOUNDED ON THE IDEA OF LIBERTY.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT RACISM, SYSTEMIC RACISM, IN PARTICULAR, THIS IS SUGGESTING THAT INSTITUTIONS, BY DESIGN, BY BIG GOVERNMENT POWER, BY BIG BUSINESS POWER, ARE CONSPIRING TO TOGETHER TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM ATTAINING THEIR TRUE OPPORTUNITY WITHIN THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

THAT'S NOT CONSERVATIVE.

AND AGAIN WE HAVE BEEN HAVING THIS CONVERSATION FOR QUITE A LONG TIME.

BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT WE NO LONGER HAVE THE LANGUAGE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE AISLE, AND AS A RESULT, A LOT OF OUR POLICY DISCUSSIONS HAVE ATROPHIES.

I CAN TALK TO A NUMBER OF CONSERVATIVES THAT SAY IF THERE ARE HEALTH DISPARITIES WITHIN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, WE SHOULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO FIX THOSE BUT IF THE POLICY SOLUTION IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE AS WE SAY ON THE RIGHT, THAT'S WHERE IT BREAKS DOWN.

IT'S NOT BECAUSE THERE IS AN ISSUE OR MISBELIEVING OF THE FACT THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM.

BUT IT'S RELATED TO THE POLICY DISPUTE.

SO THAT'S MY COMMITMENT TO THIS, TO MAKE SURE THAT MY PARTY, SPECIFICALLY MY IDEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE CAN BE RIGHT THERE SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE OTHER SIDE AND COMING UP WITH GOOD BIPARTISAN SOLUTIONS TO FIND ANSWERS TO THESE LONG STANDING PROBLEMS.

>> Renee: TO TERRANCE, TO YOU, YOU KNOW, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, CONSERVATISM, IS GROUNDED IN THE PREMISE THAT IT'S THE QUEST FOR EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND DEMOCRATS, PERHAPS MORE PROGRESSIVE ARE LOOKING FOR THE EQUALITY OF OUTCOME, RIGHT?

AND SO I'M CURIOUS TO YOU, AS YOU WORK WITH O.J.

AND WE ARE JUST ASSUMING THAT YOUR POLITICAL BENT IS OPPOSITE HIS.

HOW YOU SEE A BIPARTISAN EFFORT REALLY COMING TOGETHER WHERE YOU CAN BREAK DOWN THOSE PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT OR THE MIDDLE SHOULD EXPECT OR EVEN DEMAND.

AND CHANGING THE PERCEPTION THAT ONE IS LESS COMMITTED OR ALTRUISTIC TO THAT EFFORT AS OTHERS.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND YOU KIND OF ALLUDED TO THE ANSWER IN YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS GET-- RID OURSELVES OF PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS AND STOP THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT SOMEONE, WHO HAPPENS TO BE FROM ONE SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM FEELS THIS WAY ABOUT ISSUE X JUST BECAUSE OF A LETTER THAT WE PUT BESIDE THEIR NAME.

AND SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCEITS OF THIS COALITION WAS TO ENGAGE PEOPLE IN DISCUSSION AND LET PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS IS WHERE I COME FROM AND I WANT TO KNOW WHERE YOU COME FROM.

AND WE ALL SEE THIS PROBLEM.

NOW LOOKING AT WHAT WE ALL SEE OR CAN AGREE IS SOME TYPE OF ISSUE, NOW WE CAN TRY TO FIND A SOLUTION THAT WORKS.

AND ANOTHER THING TO POINT OUT FROM YOUR QUESTION, IS AND O.J.

AND I HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION, I PERSONALLY DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE A BIPARTISAN DISCUSSION.

I WANTED IT TO BE A NON-PARTISAN DISCUSSION BECAUSE THESE TYPES OF ISSUES SHOULDN'T HAVE PARTY AFFILIATION WHATSOEVER.

THESE TYPES OF ISSUES SHOULD BE THINGS THAT EVERYONE WANTS TO WORK TO SOLVE.

AND FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, AND YOU MENTIONED IT IN THE INTRO, WE BOTH WORKED WITH THE LEGISLATURE AND GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND SO THAT WAS WHERE WE UNDERSTAND WHERE OUR VOICES CAN BE HEARD AND WHAT OUR POWER OR OUR TYPE OF PROTEST IS.

WE UNDERSTAND POLICY.

AND SO WE WANTED TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER WHO MAY HAVE THE ADVOCACY SIDE OR THEY HAVE THINGS THAT THEY WANT TO HAPPEN, BUT THEY DON'T SPEAK POLICY NECESSARILY.

OR PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALL OF THESE THOUGHTS BUT DON'T KNOW HOW TO THEN MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN WITH THEM AND SO WE WANTED TO BRING ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE TOGETHER WITH NO CONSIDERATION OF WHERE THEY COME FROM IDEOLOGICALLY, BUT TO BRING THOSE PEOPLE TOGETHER AND TRY TO FIND COMMON SENSE, TANGIBLE SOLUTIONS AS A COALITION AND PUT THOSE FORWARD FOR EFFECTIVE CHANGE.

>> Renee: SO I ASKED O.J., TERRANCE, PERHAPS AND HE EXPOUNDED ON A PERSONAL REFLECTION OF WHEN IT REALLY CEMENTED FOR HIM THAT IT WAS TIME FOR HIM TO ELEVATE HIS PROMINENCE IN THIS TYPE OF WORK.

AND I WANT TO POSE THE SAME QUESTION TO YOU.

WHEN DID IT REALLY CLICK FOR YOU THAT YOU NEEDED TO DO MORE OUTSIDE OF YOUR ROLE WITH THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND DO IT IN THIS NON-PARTISAN BIPARTISAN MULTI-PARTISAN IDEOLOGICAL WAY TO REALLY DO THINGS BEYOND WHAT EVEN YOUR OWN COMMISSION COULD DO?

>> SURE, SO IT CLICKED FOR ME A COUPLE TIMES.

THE FIRST BEING MY FRESHMAN YEAR OF COLLEGE WHEN I HAD SIX STATE TROOPERS POINT GUNS AT ME FOR NO REASON AT ALL.

IT CLICKED AGAIN FOR ME MY SECOND YEAR OF LAW SCHOOL WHEN I HAD THE SAME THING HAPPEN TO ME WITH JUST TWO LPD OFFICERS.

WATCHING SOME OF THE THINGS THAT UNFOLDED THIS SUMMER, I TEXT O.J.

AND I WAS LIKE, WE REALLY NEED TO DO SOMETHING.

IT EASILY COULD HAVE BEEN ME MULTIPLE TIMES IN SOME OF THESE SITUATIONS THAT WE'VE SEEN.

AND SO WE HAVE THAT TEXT CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING BUT WHAT CAN WE DO BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE STREETS AND THERE WERE PEOPLE PROTESTING AND PEOPLE POSTING ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND ASKING FOR CHANGE.

BUT I WANTED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE MY SKILLS, WHAT ARE MY CAPABILITIES AND THAT IS IN THE POLICY WORLD.

AND SO WE HAD A CONVERSATION THAT NIGHT ABOUT, WELL, WHAT CAN WE DO BY WAY OF POLICY AND TALKING ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM AND SO WE TALKED ABOUT, LET'S BE VERY EXPLICIT ABOUT ANTI-RACISM.

AND SO WHAT THAT MEANT WAS WE CAME UP WITH A LOGO THAT NIGHT, SENT HIM A DRAFT OF IT THE NEXT MORNING AND SAID LET'S MAKE A TWITTER AND LET'S GO.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID.

WE MADE A TWITTER ACCOUNT AND GMAIL ACCOUNT AND STARTED TELLING PEOPLE HEY, SHARING IT WITHIN OUR NETWORKS, WE WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THAT WE KNOW HOW AND WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE PLENTY OF YOU LIKE US, WHO SEE THE PROBLEM AND WANT TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

AND SO FOR ME, IT WAS IDENTIFYING ALL OF THESE INSTANCES IN MY PAST AND TIMES THAT COULD HAVE GONE DRASTICALLY SOUTH, AND SEEING HOW, FOR SOME, THEY DID GO SOUTH.

AND THE WORST OUTCOME DID HAPPEN FOR THEM.

AND I WANT TO BE PART OF THE WAY THAT WE MAKE SURE THE WORST OUTCOME DOESN'T HAPPEN FOR MORE PEOPLE.

>> Renee: RIGHT.

O.J., I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THOSE YOU HAVE GOTTEN TO COALESCE AROUND THE MOVEMENT WHERE YOU ARE GETTING THESE DISPARATE VOICES TOGETHER FOR A COMMON CAUSE.

WHO HAS RALLIED ON TO THIS?

CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US SOME GROUPS WHO ARE WILL LATCHING ON TO THE VISION THAT YOU ALL HAVE?

>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING RENEE.

IT'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF ORGANIZATIONS.

YOU WILL HAVE PROGRESSIVE ORGANIZATIONS, FOLKS ON THE LEFT AND THE CENTER LEFT.

YOU WILL HAVE SOME CONSERVATIVE BUSINESS TYPES, WHO, AGAIN, ARE LOOKING AT TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'VE GOT THE WIDEST OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO BE, TO WORK ON THEIR TEAM, TO WORK WITH ONE ANOTHER SIDE BY SIDE, MAKING SOME MONEY.

YOU'VE GOT EDUCATORS WHO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT KIDS HAVE THE CHANCE TO SUCCEED.

YOU HAVE POLICY MAKERS, AGAIN FROM EACH SIDE OF THE AISLE, FROM EVERY POLITICAL BACKGROUND, SAYING WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE KENTUCKY BETTER.

AND THAT'S THE THING THAT HAS BEEN MOST FASCINATING.

PEOPLE HAVE APPROACHED THIS PERSPECTIVE, APPROACHED THIS COALITION, THE MOVEMENT, AS YOU MIGHT CALL IT, FROM THEIR OWN PERSONAL ENDS.

I'VE HAD FRIENDS THAT I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL WITH SAY THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ENGAGE IN THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU THIS OPENLY.

I'VE HAD FOLKS THAT I MET JUST A FEW MONTHS INTO THIS THING WHO ARE ASKING ME CRITICAL QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW TO DIVERSIFY THEIR BOARD OR WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE FOR THEIR WORKPLACE.

THE REASON THAT IS SO IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE AGAIN IT GOES BACK TO WHAT I WAS SAYING BEFORE.

I THINK SO MANY PEOPLE IN KENTUCKY WANT TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION AND THEY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

THEY JUST HAVEN'T HAD THE LANGUAGE.

THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE POLICY.

HAVEN'T HAD THE CHANCE TO THINK AND REFLECT ON IT.

OUR GROUP IS CERTAINLY NOT THE ONLY GROUP DOING THIS.

I DON'T WANT TO MAKE ANY MISTAKE ABOUT THAT.

BUT WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS, AS TERRANCE SAID, LOOK AT IT FROM A BIPARTISAN PERSPECTIVE TO INTRODUCE NON-PARTISAN SOLUTIONS.

AND THEREFORE, WE ARE TRYING TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS INCLUSIVE OF EVERYONE.

NOW BY DESIGN THAT'S GOING TO UPSET SOME PEOPLE WHO WANT US TO DO MORE OR WHO WANT US TO DO LESS.

BUT WE WERE PREPARED FOR THAT WHEN WE CAME IN AND HAPPY TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS AS WELL.

>> Renee: I'M CURE WHY US BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT-- CURIOUS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE POPULATION DENSE AREAS OF THE STATE, LEXINGTON, LOUISVILLE, OWENSBORO, BOWLING GREEN, NORTHERN KENTUCKY, WHERE THERE IS MORE OF A MINORITY PRESENCE, THE ASSUMPTION WOULD BE THAT THEY WOULD LATCH ON TO THIS WORK.

HOW ARE YOU CONNECTING TO RURAL POPULATIONS WHERE THERE IS NOT A HEAVY OR EVEN NOTABLE MINORITY PRESENCE THERE, WHERE THEY MAY FEEL LIKE THAT IS SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM TO DEAL WITH, NOT MINE.

HOW ARE YOU MAKING THE CONNECTIONS OUTSIDE OF THE METROPOLITAN ZONES AND INTO THE RURAL AREAS WHERE THEY MAY NOT THINK IT'S A PROBLEM THEY EVEN NEED TO CONFRONT.

>> QUITE FRANKLY, A LOT OF OUR BIGGEST SUPPORTERS, AT LEAST FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ARE FROM THE RURAL COMMUNITIES.

WE'VE GOT REVEREND, SENATOR GIVENS WHO GAVE HIS PASSIONATE SPEECH INTRODUCING SENATE BILL 10.

I HAVE A FRIEND OF MINE A LEGISLATOR IN SOUTHEASTERN KENTUCKY INTERESTED IN THE WORK.

THE THING THAT IS MOST FASCINATING, AGAIN IS THAT KENTUCKIANS, FOR THE MOST PART, AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, JUST WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

THEY WANT TO SEE KENTUCKY IN A BETTER PLACE.

THEY WANT TO SEE ALL KENTUCKIANS MOVE FORWARD.

AND IF THEY KNOW, AS A LOT OF FOLKS ARE BECOMING MORE AWARE, THAT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN, YOU ARE HELD BACK, THAT YOU CAN'T FULFILL YOUR FULL OPPORTUNITIES, THAT YOUR HEALTH MIGHT BE WORSE OR YOUR EDUCATION MIGHT NOT BE FAIR, PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THAT.

THEY DON'T LIKE HOW IT REFLECTS UPON THEM.

THEY DON'T LIKE HOW IT REFLECTS ON THE COMMUNITY WHERE THEY'RE FROM.

THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT KENTUCKY.

EVERYONE I HAVE COME IN CONTACT WITH IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS.

>> Renee: DO YOU HAVE MORE TO ADD THERE, TERRANCE?

>> YES, AND AS FAR AS GETTING OTHER PEOPLE FROM OTHER PARTS OF KENTUCKY INVOLVED, WITH THE COALITION, ONE THING THAT WE DID WAS WE OPENED IT UP.

WE HAD AN EMAIL ACCOUNT AND PEOPLE COULD SUBMIT THEIR IDEAS, EVEN IF IT WASN'T A SPECIFIC POLICY, JUST SAYING HEY, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE MORE X OF THIS.

BECAUSE THIS WOULD HELP.

AND WHAT WE DID WAS THROUGH ALL OF THESE IDEAS THAT WERE SUBMITTED, AND IT WAS OPEN TO ANYONE ACROSS THE STATE TO JUST SEND THEIR IDEAS AND THEN WE WOULD CULL THEM DOWN TO THE THEMATIC GROUPS, BUT WHAT THAT DID WAS IT ALSO LET US, ONCE WE HAD ALL OF THOSE IDEAS AND PUT THEM INTO THEMES, WE STARTED WORKING GROUPS TO DISCUSS ISSUES IN CERTAIN AREAS.

AND IN DISCUSSING THE MAKEUP OF WHO WOULD HELP LEAD THOSE WORKING GROUPS TO KIND OF GET THOSE DISCUSSIONS FLOWING, WE LOOKED AT REGIONAL DIVERSITY AS A CRITERIA FOR DETERMINING WHICH FOUR TO SIX PEOPLE IN THOSE WORKING GROUPS, ARE GOING TO HELP STEER THE CONVERSATION BECAUSE WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS IDEOLOGICAL DIVERSITY, DEMOGRAPHIC DIVERSITY, REGIONAL DIVERSITY, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE GETTING A CROSS SECTION OF KENTUCKY AND NOT JUST PEOPLE WHO WE KNEW FROM AROUND LOUISVILLE OR LEXINGTON OR BOWLING GREEN OR ANY OF THAT.

AND SO THAT DID OPEN THE CONVERSATION UP BECAUSE ONE OF OUR EIGHT WORKING GROUP WAS IN AGRICULTURE, WHICH, FROM LOOKING AT WHO SUBMITTED IDEAS, ONLY ONE OF THOSE CAME FROM SOMEONE IN ONE OF THE LARGER URBAN AREAS, AND SO WE HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND THAT ALSO, FOR ME PERSONALLY, LED TO SOME REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION BECAUSE SOMEONE ASKED ME A QUESTION ABOUT, THEY HAVE HAD THOUGHTS ABOUT SOME OF THESEI BUT THEY NEVER REALLY HAD PEOPLE AROUND THEM IN THEIR AREA TO TALK TO OR, IF THERE WERE, THEY DIDN'T FEEL SAFE OR COMFORTABLE IN THE SENSE THAT IF THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEM AND DIDN'T WANT TO OFFEND BY SAYING HEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS BLACK ISSUE WITHOUT EVER REALLY KNOWING HOW TO APPROACH IT.

SO IT OPENED US UP AS WELL TO SOME CONVERSATIONS AND DISCUSSIONS WITH PEOPLE ACROSS KENTUCKY WHO MAY HAVE WANTED TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS FOR A LONG TIME BUT DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS AN AVENUE TO DO THAT.

>> Renee: SO I WANT TO GET ABOUT THE POLICIES AND THE PROPOSITIONS THAT THE PERHAPS WE COULD SEE COME THROUGH THIS SESSION OF THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

BUT I WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT POINT ABOUT, ARE YOU EVEN TRYING TO WEDGE THAT CONVERSATION THAT, AS TERRANCE JUST PUT IT, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TIMID, SHY, UNSURE OF THEMSELVES.

IN BROACHING BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO SAY IT OR HOW TO SAY IT.

ARE YOU PROVIDING A TUTORIAL OR REMEDIAL CLASS ON EVEN HAVING THOSE TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER YOU ARE IN A RURAL SPACE OR URBAN ONE?

>> I'LL START AND THEN O.J.

HAS A GOOD POINT ON THIS AS WELL.

BUT FOR ME, THE ONE THING THAT WE HAVE APPROACHED EACH OF THE CONVERSATIONS IS TELLING PEOPLE BEE HAVE TO ALL BE WILLING TO BE VULNERABLE AND TO UNDERSTAND ME AS A BLACK MAN, TO HAVE SOMEONE SAY SOME OF THEIR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS AND BELIEFS, I'M NOT GOING TO ASSESS OR ASSIGN A VALUE TO THEM BASED ON THEM HAVING A QUESTION AND I NEED TO BE VULNERABLE AND OPEN TO UNDERSTANDING THEIR POINT OF VIEW AND ASK FOR A RECIPROCITY IN THAT WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE.

THEY SHOULD BE OPEN AND VULNERABLE TO LISTEN TO MY CONCERNS AND MY FEARS AND MY HOPES AND MY DREAMS.

AND SO CREATING A SPACE FOR MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING IS ONE OF THE STARTING POINTS FOR ANY TYPE OF CONVERSATION LIKE THIS.

>> EXACT WILL I RIGHT.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS I TRY TO TELL FOLKS IS UNFORTUNATELY IF PEOPLE ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE RACE CONSCIOUS, PEOPLE OFTEN CONSIDER THEM TO BE RACIST WHICH BREAKS DOWN A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION.

IF SOMEONE IS NOT BLACK OR THEY DON'T HAVE BLACK PEOPLE IN THEIR LIVES THEN THEY PROBABLY DON'T UNDERSTAND A LOT OF THE ISSUES BLACK PEOPLE GO THROUGH.

THAT'S TRUE IGNORANCE, NOT CALLING SOMEONE STUPID OR UNINTELLIGENT OR DUMB BUT TRULY UNAWARE.

IF SOMEBODY HAS NEVER EXPERIENCED OR BEEN AROUND SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN PREGNANT OR HAD PREGNANCY, TRYING TO BREAK DOWN AND EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS LIKE IS AN IMPOSSIBLE TASK.

I KNOW THAT BECAUSE MY WIFE TRIED TO DO THAT WITH ME THIS PAST YEAR AND I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE WILLING TO MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE, AS TERRANCE SAID, BUT ALSO, AND THIS IS A KEY POINT FOR A LOT OF FOLKS.

IF YOU ARE NOT IN A POSITION OR A PLACE TO DO THAT, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

IF YOU ARE BLACK IN KENTUCKY OR IN THIS COUNTRY, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IS LIKE AND MOVE THEM ALONG TO UNDERSTAND IT.

NOW YOU CERTAINLY CAN.

BUT WITH THAT RESPONSIBILITY, IF YOU PUT THAT ON YOURSELF, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE WHO EITHER DISAGREE OUTRIGHT OR PEOPLE WHO JUST AREN'T ABLE TO UNDERSTAND.

YOU CAN HAVE THE CONVERSATIONS BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF DISPARATE VIEW POINTS THAT COME BACK TO YOU.

>> Renee: A BASIC TENET OF THE COMMUNICATION MODEL.

YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO GET TO A SHARED NECESSARILY AGREEMENT BUT A SHARED MEANING AND UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

I THINK SOMETIMES IN AMERICA THERE IS A BREAKDOWN AND O.J.

YOU ALLUDED TO IT THAT WE CAN SAY THAT WE BELIEVE THAT RACISM IS A PROBLEM, BUT YOU ALSO HEAR A LOT OF VOICES, THAT IT IS NOT, A MEDIA CONTRIVED PHENOMENON OVER BLOWN AND OUTSIZED FOR THEIR BENEFIT AND SO EVEN GETTING TO A PLACE WHERE THERE IS SHARED UNDERSTANDING THAT A PROBLEM EXISTS, IF WE DID THAT, WE WOULD PROBABLY COME A LONG WAY.

AND MAYBE MAYBE I'M OVERSATE STATING THAT.

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

>> THIS BECOMES THE CHALLENGE BECAUSE THE FLIP SIDE, YOU HAVE A CADRE OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE FOR THEIR ENTIRE ADULT LIFE.

THEY HAVE LIVED IT FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIFE.

AND THEY STUDIED THIS AS PROFESSIONALS.

SO AS A RESULT, WHEN THEY HEAR SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING LIKE, WELL I NEED TO SEE THE DATA ON THAT.

THE RESPONSE IS WHY DO WE NEED ANYMORE INFORMATION.

WE KNOW WHAT TO DO.

WE KNOW THE CHALLENGES.

WE KNOW THE PROBLEMS.

THAT'S A FAIR CRITIQUE IN A LOT OF THESE CONVERSATIONS BUT THE REALITY IS A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN'T HAD THE INFORMATION OR, AGAIN, AS WE UNDERSTAND THIS INFORMATION AGE, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY TRUST WHERE THE INFORMATION IS COMING FROM.

SO THE WAY THAT WE TRY TO APPROACH THIS IN SOME CONVERSATIONS AND I'VE TRIED TO DO THIS WITH A NUMBER OF DISCUSSIONS THAT I'VE HAD, IS TELL PEOPLE LET'S GET THE INFORMATION, LET'S UTILIZE A SOURCE THAT YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE AND LET'S SEE WHAT IT SAYS TOGETHER BECAUSE I FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT, UNFORTUNATELY, IN A LOT OF THESE SITUATIONS WE WILL SEE NEGATIVE RESULTS AND NEGATIVE INFORMATION.

NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE ARE BAD.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO MAKE UP A PARTICULAR INSTITUTION ARE BAD.

BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT THERE ARE CHALLENGES THAT WE CAN WORK THROUGH TOGETHER.

AND RENEE WHAT I HAVE FOUND IS WHEN YOU APPROACH IT THAT WAY, FOLKS WHO ARE INITIALLY SKEPTICAL SAY WELL LET'S GIVE IT A TRY.

I THINK EVEN OPENING THAT DOOR TO THE BEGINNING IS BETTER THAN HAVING NOTHING, WHICH IS WHERE WE ARE ON A LOT OF THESE CONVERSATIONS TODAY.

>> Renee: I WANT TO PICK UP A POINT THAT YOU MENTIONED EARL YOUR AND THAT'S ABOUT LEGISLATION.

YOU MENTIONED SB-10, SENATE BILL 10 AND THE STATE SENATE PRO TEM IS A SPONSOR OF THAT, DAVID GIVENS FROM GREENSBURG.

TELL US WHAT SB-10 PURPORTS TO DO.

IT IS EARLY AND OFTEN TIMES AS YOU VERY WELL KNOW, BILLS START OUT ONE WAY AND MAY END UP ANOTHER.

BUT AS IT ORIGINALLY HAS BEEN PROPOSED, WHAT IS THE PREMISE?

>> SB SLT 10 AND I REALLY WANT TO GET TERRANCE TO JUMP IN HE, IT EFFECTIVELY CREATES A COMMISSION WITHIN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, LEADERS ARE ABLE TO CHOOSE MEMBERS FROM THE HOUSE AND FROM THE SENATE, AS WELL AS MEMBERS FROM THE COMMUNITY WHO HAVE A BACKGROUND IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE, EDUCATION AND THE LAW.

THE PURPOSE IS TO DO A FEW THINGS.

DEVELOP SOME SHARED UNDERSTANDING, AGAIN AS YOU MENTIONED ON THE BACKGROUND AND DATA, THE CHALLENGES THAT EXIST WITHIN MINORITY COMMUNITIES.

I THINK IS THE WAY THE BILL IS OUTLINED AND FROM THERE COME UP WITH SOME POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE THAT CAN MAKE SOME CHANGES.

AGAIN, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE THE MOST EXCITING OR MOST RADICAL IDEA, OUR GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS NOT A RADICAL BUNCH, AT LEAST NOT WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THE SUGGESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN OFFERED WITH REGARD TO RACIAL INJUSTICES.

SO WHAT THIS DOES IS IT GIVES EVERYBODY THE SAME SET OF INFORMATION, SO FROM THERE, MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY, MEMBERS OF THE STATE SENATE, MEMBERS OF STATEHOUSE, AGAIN FROM BOTH PARTIES, ARE ABLE TO MAKE DECISIONS GOING FORWARD.

>> Renee: TERRANCE.

>> AND ONE THING WE DID WANT TO HIGHLIGHT ABOUT SB-10 AND TALKING ABOUT OUR OR THIS COALITION IS THE GENESIS OF THIS IDEA OF A COMMISSION ORIGINATED FROM SOME OF THESE WORKING GROUP DISCUSSIONS AND TALKING ABOUT INSTITUTIONALIZING ANTI-RACISM BECAUSE IF THERE IS SYSTEMIC RACISM, WE NEED TO BE JUST AS EXPLICIT IN ERADICATING IT.

AND SO ONE OF THE THEMES THAT CAME UP IN SOME OF THESE POLICY CONVERSATIONS WITH THE WORKING GROUPS AND ONE OF THE MAIN POLICY PROPOSALS THAT CAME OUT OF SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS WAS TO CREATE SOME INSTITUTIONALIZED OPTION TO LOOK AT ISSUES OF RACE AND OPPORTUNITY AND HOW THAT WORKS IN KENTUCKY.

AND SO GENERALLY, OR INITIALLY, THAT IDEA WAS TO JUST LOOK AT ECONOMIC GENERATIONAL WEALTH ISSUES.

AND THAT GREW TO LOOK ACROSS OTHER FACETS AS WELL AND SO CREATING A COMMISSION OR SOME TYPE OF LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE TO LOOK AT THESE ISSUES LONG-TERM, NOT JUST A ONE-YEAR LOOK AT THESE ISSUES AND THEN PRESENT SOMETHING JUST BECAUSE THAT'S THE HOT BUTTON ITEM RIGHT NOW BUT SOMETHING WE ARE GOING TO HAVE FROM HERE ON OUT AND TO MEET CONSISTENTLY AND HAVE THAT GOAL.

>> Renee: YEAH WELL, THANK YOU TERRANCE SULLIVAN, O.J.

OLEKA, IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE.

THERE IS A LOT MORE THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT AND HOPEFULLY WILL ON THIS PROGRAM AND OTHERS HERE A KET.

I COMMEND YOU FOR THE VALIANT WORK YOU ARE DOING TO HELP YOU UNITE KENTUCKY.

IT'S OUR STATE MOTTO, UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

THANK YOU FOR BEING ABOUT THE FORMER AND NOT THE LATTER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH GENTLEMEN, WE APPRECIATE YOU.

THAT'S ALL FOR CONNECTIONS TODAY.

YOU CAN ALWAYS FOLLOW ME ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND PARTICULAR KEEP UP WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AS WELL.

I GOT YOU COVERED.