> > This week on the Wheelhouse in community and public health a millions in federal grants are disappearing.

What does this mean for future epidemics?

The > > Connecticut Public home of > > For the UConn Huskies.

Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse.

The show that connects politics to the people.

We got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention pulling back 11 0.4 billion dollars in COVID-19 related funds for state and community health departments.

These are COVID era funds.

The Department of Health and Human Services has said, quote.

The COVID-19 pandemic is over.

Hhs will no longer wait.

Billions of taxpayer dollars responding to a non-existent pandemic that Americans moved on from years ago.

In Connecticut Public.

health officials say the Trump administration cutting 150 billion in federal grants allocated to the state for Disease surveillance, childhood immunizations and more.

We got to dive into that.

We're going to do that with some great talent here today.

So job history, Boston, a senior health reporter for Connecticut Public.

So good to see today's job morning, Frankie.

Welcome back to the Wheelhouse.

And welcome back to the Wheelhouse.

Mikhaela sav it state government reporter 4 Connecticut Public.

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Thank you.

Frankie.

So good to hear from both of you today.

I want folks to give us a call.

Let us know what you think.

The President Trump's public health funding cuts join the conversation.

Tell us if you're nervous about the spread of disease.

Or maybe more accurately.

You're nervous about how we might pay to respond or tracking Tracy's things > > The caley get the first question here.

State and local public health departments are losing 11.4 billion with a B nationally in COVID era funds.

How's the Trump administration kind of explaining the reasons for the cuts?

> > Yeah.

Like you at at the top Frank, they're saying, you know, COVID is over.

They're claiming COVID is over and that Americans moved on years ago.

But like you said, COVID is still infecting people and a federal judge last week issued a temporary restraining order pulling back the foot on pulling back the funds to the Trump administration after 23 attorneys general including Connecticut's Willian Tong filed the lawsuit in reaction to this latest cut and that lawsuit argues that the Fed saying, you know, the pandemic is over is not just cars the grants and that until a couple days before these grants were canceled.

You know, they're the federal agency's position.

Was that COVID ending didn't affect availability of millions of inappropriate.

It funds nationwide.

The federal public health emergency is essentially over.

That's a different way than what the federal government saying that everything is over.

one thing that go against that is the fact that thousands of people so far in 2025 have died from COVID, including more than 200 the week of March.

29 here in America.

So jot to health departments across Connecticut.

Obviously they're worried about COVID.

They're worried about other infectious diseases.

What are they putting these funds toward?

What would they have if they weren't clawed back?

> > This and Frankie since 17, 91, the state have been responsible for implementing public health programs and Connecticut is no exception.

We've done really it comes to disease monitoring some drawn syndromic surveillance vaccination rates and importantly, programs that bridge it quickly and Connecticut and the rest of the country.

You know, these departments, local health departments rely heavily on public funding to some of the programs, the important programs that are impacted as of now are feeding the algae in the bar to capacity chron's and that's a close to 120 million cut just for that.

So we've had some very good reason upgrades in it.

Systems and we've spent in Connecticut, millions of dollars already put into the system upgrades and that's not completely goes to waste no longer will the system's be up and running the lab tests but not be to board a tiny that's including for newborn screening and installation of equipment to improve the state's inability to process and analyze genome data that was scrapped.

And so that means new diseases, existing diseases pathogens like each 5, 1, of infections.

Those cannot be monitoring can implement electronic book.

The District.

It just goes on and on.

And then importantly, immunization grant cuts of 26 Million.

43 contacts with local health departments to promote vaccine uptake have been canceled.

Mobile vaccine clinics are normal.

Rutan programs have been caught and health disparities grant close to 5 million dollars.

And that's importantly, you know, one of the most effective programs we've had call the Family Bridge program of the Children Born in Bridgeport Hospital.

Now the cusp of blood.

Now that program way No says it just didn us is visit the homes of new bonds and call in and help moms with everything from postpartum depression to hypertension, a baby is madness.

Now all of that is going to be impacted.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

120 million dollars for it.

Systems upgrades.

That's one part of the equation.

> > And we're not just talking about simple computer upgrades as we know in talking about criminal justice.

And you were talking about the inequity angle and disparities.

We know that it takes a lot of money to make certain things happen like expunging criminal records having to update systems.

A very serious thing and what that looks like in public health is processing tests and being able to carry out some of this work.

So you're talking about 120 million dollars there.

Another 26 million dollar Fund mikhaela help us understand the scope.

What's the total years at about 150 million > > According to the attorney dollars?

General Tongs lawsuit is closer to 175 million dollars and in.

But, you know, the State Department of Public Health to take the biggest hit, you know, specifically the infectious disease branch, you know, in CDOT to covered.

Thank The became the many things that are being affected by you know, in every local community, you're not to mention disease outbreak.

Surveillance in emergency departments and nursing homes.

You know, these are dozens of and dozens of projects funded by the grants.

Order to stop work.

We're talking about job loss for a lot of health experts.

Epidemiologists you know, and these immunity immunization services being canceled.

The boots on the ground hyper-local work to identify and speak with folks about vaccine hesitancy and work to increase vaccination rate.

> > Our attorney general saying that the Department of Public Health taking the biggest hit.

Let's hear from the state to publicly State Department of Public Health commissioner and you should get it.

> > This is not about the pandemic.

That is past.

This is about the pandemic.

We're trying to prevent and save people in the future.

This is about saving people from known threats like measles like avian flu and for the unknown threats that may come down the road.

> > Avian flu, so jot you said something about H 5 n one earlier with H 5 n one.

> > Bird flu.

We've had outbreaks in the country and, you know, UConn monitor what is invisible.

I got injected note of good news here.

I just heard from my left and just I mean, yes, I just got from ducked into tiny that one.

And of 5, you know, an impactful area that the dph is involved in, which is wastewater monitoring that has not been caught with the cut in grant funding.

So that goes on.

So still monitoring wastewater right now for COVID.

But then, you know, for the potential pathogens has been somewhat Randy.

This does is as doctors without he said, you know, the scope beyond COVID.

Once we said the systems in place we monitor for the pandemic, which ended in 2023, which that when the Biden administration announced in May.

But ongoing enough for the bird flu from measles.

I mean, these are systems that a second place now because of the pandemic and then be event is up and they add when we and to, you know, the next pandemic, Liz and I don't want to be, you know, the I don't want to be.

Pollyanna Schneider want to be the Derby down a bit to think it is.

There is going to be a next pandemic and these systems have to protect us.

Yes, and > > when you're discussing the wastewater services that are and those testing that was able to tell us during the height of the pandemic when the next spike would come, the maybe a week or 2 out.

So that really helps him track.

And trace, I guess that is one element of good news.

Let's talk about more impacts McKayla Department of Public Health and local health care providers.

How are they going to feel these cuts?

So like what kind of services will be affected?

And I know when we're thinking particularly about COVID, it was really sad to just here's a job to say that mobile vaccinations may no more things like that.

> > Yeah, we're on to emphasize on one of the points that out to me before for about I that the trickle down of these Cutts is on, you know, the federal funding that was helping to modernize testing communication.

And you know it it I think, is a week and week and a half now, you know, commissioner do tiny along with Doctor Juan Salazar with Connecticut Children's Hospital.

You know, we're very concerned about how this will affect new the state's newborn screening program, which with a simple heal with a simple he'll test to draw a little bit of blood no to tax about 60 rare genetic conditions.

It's the difference between a hospital getting notice of a positive test result electronically, which, you know, maybe we all take for granted at this point with our portals versus FOX, which could get lost, you know, by paper or maybe it doesn't go through.

And and that.

Could mean delays in care for some really time sensitive, potentially life-threatening conditions for newborns in our state, which there's 35,000 approximately a year delays in care and sort of the acute physical care.

What about mental health services?

Yeah.

these cuts are coming.

Down our department, mental health and addiction services as well.

Demis, you know, helps with this safety net for residents who are seeking aid at we're getting aid from nonprofits in our communities that are really, really vulnerable time in their life.

We're talking about providing mental to unhoused people.

Word know connecting them to work supports.

And you know, this is efforts to do early intervention or you treatment for individuals experiencing first episode of psychosis in their lifetime you know, one of the other things that, you know, Demis commissioner also raise the alarm about was how this will impact substance.

You screenings and mental health services for people who are pregnant or recently gave birth and you know it when you know this is very important in talking about the pandemic.

The pandemic exacerbated so many health in equities that we have been seeing throughout the years.

And one of those things that it really trickle down to was the opioid epidemic.

And, you know, just overdoses and this could.

Effect harm reduction centers as well.

You know.

The ability to provide overdose, reversing medications like naloxone or Narcan.

You know, ends again.

This is work that's done with local nonprofits and which are already struggling to keep up with the rising costs from inflation.

And while disparities remain, it's hard to argue against the work that the state has done and cities have done in terms of.

> > Getting out there and doing this a situation where the getting Narcan out to people, mobile vaccinations, just sort of this.

This this kind of effort to get out there and get into the public has worked so well in Connecticut, but it's sad to see that some of those programs may be impacted.

8, 8, 7, 2, 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 7, 2, 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, the number to call.

If you'd like to talk with us this morning.

If you'd like to talk about bird flu, if you'd like to talk about COVID.

> > If you'd like to talk so jot about measles, which is currently on the rise across the United States.

Currently no confirmed cases of measles in Connecticut.

97 0.7% vaccination rate for measles among kindergartners in Connecticut.

Maybe we're not necessarily worried about those kids because they're in school and they're vaccinated.

But think about the fact that millions of people have been saved by the measles vaccine since the 60's.

And now all of a sudden people might be saying it's not on the rise necessarily.

We're not seeing it.

But people actually dying from the measles, which is what the vaccine it's supposed to prevent.

> > And importantly, you know, the automated reports full overview of vaccines no longer would be sent to provide it is and that could potentially decrease vaccination faith creating challenges for sticking to vaccine schedules.

And that can be to a disease up to can also public facing dashboards with no longer be updated.

So we really don't know what is the percentage of immunization rate in the communities.

So in the absence of data will be released among along in the dock.

Pretty much so to say.

> > Something around in the dark.

That is a very hard thing to hear.

And also you said earlier, you can't track what's invisible or you might have issues with that.

So the Kayla, what are local lawmakers saying about the repercussions?

The cuts could have on our health care industry here in Connecticut.

Yeah, we'll many lawmakers were immediately concerned and angry.

And, you know, many of already been working during legislative session > > You know, put protections to.

in place through legislation and that could, you know, help people in our state.

In the case of cuts such as the U.S. you know, now the question is how the state might attempt to back Phil, these cuts.

They could be part of the upcoming budget negotiations.

We see this session or no later special session you know, the Democrats are very, very concerned.

And Lamont along with Senate President Martin Looney and House Speaker Matt Ritter, you issued this joint statement the day after the public health cuts basically saying these expected cuts are not like what we expected and no state can feel advocate.

that's kind of been the M O this whole session.

But this took it a step further.

You know, we're in a good spot because of our fiscal practices.

We have a big, rainy day fund and they said, you know, hey, if the deep cuts keep happening, we will be ready to use our emergency powers to protect the state.

I love McKayla 7.

What a great reporter kind of getting some breaking news into the conversation and the fact that lawmakers are at least discussing whether or not fiscal guardrails will top will continue in Connecticut.

> > We are not in Kansas anymore.

I have that feeling in terms of whether or not we're going to have to continue to save for long-term debt obligations as has been planned for so long in the state of Connecticut, particularly in the session.

We're throwing around numbers in terms of trying to fund education for students with disabilities.

30, 40 million dollars seems like a drop in the bucket.

When you're talking about and Medicaid and trying to backfill that.

Trying to back to what you're talking about with 150 million dollars in losses.

It seems like you're sort of.

Trying to to to to treat this disaster with a with a drop in the bucket.

Really.

And that's causing lawmakers to change their tune here.

A little bit in the state of Connecticut will continue to follow that on the Wheelhouse in the coming days.

So Johnson who in our state is going to feel the impact of these cuts the most would you say?

> > People who most marginalized.

And and, you know, as of we are already in a Connecticut is already behind when it comes to Medicaid.

Reimbursement rates.

It's about $0.64 to the dollar and this is being an issue for a long time now with the cost of health care going up at the reimbursement rates haven't kept pace.

So already, you know, is making a pointed out, yes, we do have a rainy day fund.

But, you know, she's right.

He said the demons many an intense and growing and the state alone will not be able to fund public and it quickly in the absence of federal support and look.

The the face of public health changed the second.

The second Trump administration took office, you know, public health.

It says he's defined as in a pub.

It's supported by public funds.

If a public health.

we are seeing in a fundamental shifts in in how we view public health day and you know what comes in the purview of public health we unfortunately are having discussions.

You know, there was this back and forth.

For instance, you brought up me say this the the Health now Human Services secretary to she said it may not was not in favor of a measles vaccination and then with the outbreak in the death in Texas was in favor measles vaccinations.

So in environment of confusing and conflicting messages.

We've always depended on the solid to tee off on local health department.

Guided by signs with top doctors talk public health experts and taking away that funding does a disservice to on the funds.

> > People are going to their public health officials and they might not have answers.

People are going to state officials like the governor.

They may not have answers.

People are also going to see job to Srinivasan who you could find it.

S Srinivasan at CT Public Dot org asking questions like this.

If you can answer this, wants a job to it's it's it's kind of you weren't prepared for this one.

But Susan, from New Fairfield called an 888-720-9677, wants to know the impact on longstanding programs that address things like TB, tuberculosis and HIV prevention.

I know globally this.

These HHS cuts have had a tremendous impact, has been a lot of rhetoric.

A lot of misinformation about helping stem the spread of HIV here in America.

But also in places like Kenya and globally in Africa and things like that.

Are we seeing any local impact in that regard?

> > Susan, you a spot on with your question and we have defended historically on public health programs to tackle these these huge challenges.

And, you know, in conjunction with this funding, John, to be also no longer tied with the World Health Organization and the W was instrumental across the one in tackling, you know, TBA reduction.

And now unfortunately we see TV numbers going up.

That is latent infection in in our population, immigrant population and also traveling population.

I was going to be connected.

So when you travel to countries these infectious diseases who bring them the latent infections and and they manifest so all of these programs, including hitch it, including TV, including infectious diseases, will be affected by this grant funding in terms of our ability to monitor them because we no longer have syndromic screening.

So you show up at the ER with symptoms those symptoms will no longer be deported to the > > Tremendous response on the dph.

fly from see Jon Tester D Boston looks like McKayla 7 as a common as well.

Go > > Yeah.

I mean, what what ahead.

what we're talking about the scope beyond Connecticut.

I think I think the rest of the show will go deeper into this.

Yeah.

When we're talking about local aid being affected, that's that's also being, you know.

Taking a huge hit by this huge federal, federal workforce reduction and HHS, the CDC and I I H, you know, it many other federal agencies that use tons of work.

You know that the FOIA officer in the NIH, you know, is no longer in their position and PR reported yesterday, you know.

All that kind of.

All those kind of positions interact with our local public health experts really quickly, how can folks give you guys tips for news?

What worked in the mail?

a legal first.

> > And as a V as in Victor, ITT at CT Public Dot Org job > > It's training costs in at to.

CT Public Dot Org.

> > You've been listening jot this, your new boss and senior health reporter for Connecticut Public.

Thank you so much for joining the show.

Pleasure, Frank McKayla, you are wonderful.

The state government reporter for Connecticut Public McKayla 7.

Thank you for being on the > > As always, thank you.

show.

Frankie.

After the break, more on how federal funding cuts may impact public health.

But first, if you rely on Connecticut Public for your news of the day, both local and national national champions.

Of course, consider supporting the work that we do here are 2 of my colleagues to tell you about how to do that right now.

Good morning.

Lauren Comer ASI.

> > And for testified, the Nets.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

President Donald Trump's administration recently caught 11.4 billion dollars.

It COVID era funds for state and local public health departments.

What does this mean for disease prevention?

Joining me now, a tremendous roster of reporters here from KFF Health News, including Julie Rovner, Chief Washington correspondent for Camp at Health News, the host of the podcast.

What the h***.

Julie, great to have you here.

Thanks for having me.

So great to see you.

Thank you so much for joining our show means so much to us.

Also joining us any Max month.

The National Public Health corresponded for camp of Health News Health Policy Research and news organization.

Amy, thank you for the tremendous work that you do.

> > Thank you.

Great to be > > Thank you so much for here.

coming on the show.

Folks, if you'd like to join the conversation, if you'd like to really talk to some public health pros right now, 88 7, 2, 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 720-9677.

Julie.

I am privileged to start with you.

Let's start by zooming out a bit.

The Trump administration's clawback of COVID era relief funds follows other changes to our public health landscape.

You just give us a quick kind of gloss over what's happening with the National Institutes of Health.

The FDA, the CDC right now.

> > Yeah, I'm calling this sort of the great dismantling of that nation's federal health infrastructure.

We've seen tremendous cut.

We think line back of grant funds that have already been given out.

That's what you've mostly been talking about.

We've seen people enormous layoffs, basically a quarter of the 80,000 people who work for the Federal Department of Health and Human Services and have either taken by out or early retirement or been laid off.

And plus, we're seeing cut in contracting a lot of this work is done not by federal employees themselves, but by other organizations that the federal government contract with.

We're seeing cuts to all 3.

So we're seeing entire office is basically wiped out, as you said at the CDC and at the FDA at the NIH, things that have been going on, things that work created with bipartisan support in Congress and funded with bipartisan support in Congress.

Just essentially a race by this administration in its first 2 months.

> > Great word.

They use their raced for the week of March.

29 210 people died of COVID in the United States.

Yet a recent Department of Health and Human Services statement that we mentioned earlier regarding federal funding cuts minimize the impact of COVID on the country.

Why Julie is the Trump administration characterizing COVID as behind us a thing of the past.

> > Because that's basically how Trump got re-elected.

The country didn't like what COVID did, particularly didn't like what COVID did to supply chains which caused a lot of inflation, which cause people to get very cranky.

But as you mentioned, COVID is not really behind us and the money that the administration is calling back.

That was given out, quote, unquote, for COVID was also being used to address other public health problems.

We have a measles outbreak in Texas now spreading to other states in the southwest.

More than 600 cases.

We have bird flu.

If you already discussed.

I mean, there are a lot of things that this money was being used for, that we're not COVID that are still threats to public health.

> > Do we know what it means for things like free COVID test which were available during the pandemic and the spikes in infections.

> > Well, free COVID test been over for a while and they've gone away and come back and gone away and come back.

That kind of the least of this Lot of the problem is that they're cutting surveillance programs.

So we not only won't know what you know where the COVID is, but we won't know where the measles it and we know that won't know where the bird flu is and we won't know where the next pandemic disease might be coming from that.

Basically what's happening here is that the public health infrastructure, it's being taken apart bit by bit.

And it's obviously not just COVID.

Julie Rovner, thank you so much.

The > > host of the What the Health podcast for AFF Kff Health News Natural part to bring a me into this conversation because what were essentially hearing from Julie is the grant cuts are COVID era dollar cuts, meaning a me that they might not have to be used exclusively in the fight against COVID.

> > Yeah.

You know, the way that I spoke with the director of the health Department in Mississippi and what the way he described it was like this.

It's basically COVID era and that COVID exposed just how underfunded and how weak our public health infrastructure was.

And so it was suddenly clear that, for example, I think, you know, one of your last excellent journalist mentioned sending, you know, data by fax machine.

That's real.

That's what was happening there in COVID.

There were tears.

There wasn't decent databases are ways to send information around or collect it.

And not just for COVID but for you know, you name it.

You name the disease that public health look said it could be HIV could be syphilis.

It could be cancer rates.

There's all sorts of numbers that they collect.

So basically, you know, in his particular department, one of the several areas they realized they needed to do is to build.

Data infrastructure like just actual software developments that they can share data more easily.

So that's something that really has nothing to do with COVID specifically.

But COVID just showed how much it was needed.

> > This is great because you essentially answered a question a friend of ours that just commented from New Haven.

Nancy, I was wondering about that day to the lack of services and really who the service because it doesn't sound like it serves the American people.

It doesn't sound like this is interesting to me that you're speaking to somebody who's working with the Mississippi Health Department where it is what we would consider a red state and they're dealing with these issues where there may be a lot of misinformation.

And now you're not having the flow of federal dollars, but Julie, I digress.

From that point as well.

We'll continue to try to sneak data in into this conversation to go into this part.

Doctor Ulysses Wu is the chief epidemiologist at Hartford Healthcare in Connecticut.

He joined a another Connecticut Public talk show Where We Live hosted by my friend Katherine Chen.

She asked him about our ability as a country to respond to the next public health crisis in.

Here's what you listen as had to say.

> > We had our dry runs and now we've with COVID.

We had our first real test run.

It's not to say that we're not prepared, but we're not going to be as prepared as we should be.

I agree that communication is probably one of the biggest things that needs to improve during this because the dissemination of information education will be our best ally going forward.

> > The dissemination of information during public health emergencies.

What do you have to say about that?

Julie?

> > It was not public health shining moment during COVID.

There was a lot of disagreement.

You know, it's funny.

I cover public health for a long time.

Even through the end of the last time we went through this reckoning with public health with after the anthrax.

At outbreaks following 9.11, 2001.

And there's been a lot of work on how to improve communication so people can understand what it means.

What public health itself mean, people don't understand the public health.

It's about the health of the population that that's different from individual medical care that it's about taking care of a community.

There's been so much work on how to more effectively communicate and yet it didn't seem to pay half during COVID and I think public health, it's inside public health is having kind of a reckoning now about how to better communicate the things you know, that that people need to understand about public health.

You know, the the conundrum about public health is that when it works, it's invisible.

You don't notice when your water safe to drink in your food is safe to eat.

Your drugs are safe and effective.

You only notice when those things don't happen.

Shout out to the people of Utah who no longer have fluoride in their drinking water.

> > Thank you for that as well.

Watch.

And I know that you're going to be watching that throughout with your what the Health podcast.

I just have a quick question.

I'd like you to answer we've got to go to break and then will be back with our nice long, see segment states are responding to the recent HHS cuts, the state of Connecticut here, Julie filed the lawsuit to overturn Grant funding cuts this Connecticut or other states have a case.

Julie?

> > Yeah, I mean there there's almost no question that everything this administration is doing pretty much is illegal.

It's a question of when it is going to be stopped and who is going to stop it so far they are doing things you don't break first and ask questions later.

But this is money that has been authorized and appropriated by Congress.

It is not the administration's joppa say we're not gonna spend this money on the administration is certainly free to reorganize officers within the Department of Health and Human Services.

But they are not free to say we're going to get rid of this office that was created by Congress.

So we're seeing a lot of lawsuits.

We're seeing a lot of judges who are stopping things and then starting other coaches starting them again on this to have a long way to play out.

But, you know, the question is what's going to be left?

One, everything is over from Connecticut Public Radio.

This is the Wheelhouse.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

We're going to be taking your calls when we come back.

> > 8, 8, 7, 2, 0, 9, 6, 7, 7, listening to Amy Manxman, the National public Health correspondent for Kff Health News and Julie Rovner chief Washington correspondent for Kff Health News and host of the What the Health podcast after the break.

How concerned are scientists about future pandemics?

888-720-9677, more from the Wheelhouse.

Next on Connecticut Public.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ This is the Wheelhouse from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano this hour.

We're looking at how federal funding cuts to public health may impact emergency response and preparedness still with me, Julie Rovner chief Washington correspondent for Camp of Health News.

And Amy Manxman National Public Health correspondent for Kff Health News.

Amy, I want to go to you here and I want to take a look at a specific example here of an infectious disease and how it spread is being managed.

Growing concern from health professionals regarding human risk and avian influenza infection.

What are you hearing from health experts about bird flu and the potential danger it poses to human health.

> > I yeah.

So.

> > The bird flu right has it's been around for 3 decades, but something new happened this year in the U.S. last year.

It started and it jumped from birds and the cattle.

And and we've just seen a ramp-up across the United States throughout last year.

And I would take a moment to say, you know, when I was covering it last year, the fact that we allowed it, we failed to stop the outbreak when it's mall, which is always the best.

Simplest cheapest, fastest thing to do.

We failed to do it quickly.

So that just shows we're not ready to prevent another pandemic overall, it was a very slow response now we're at this point where is continuing to spread and the fear here is that right now the bird flu does not spread between people rapidly.

But viruses evolve.

Everything of of also it could evolve to do so.

And once in of all to do so, we could have a pandemic and that pandemic could be as bad or worse than COVID.

> > The CDC says that as you just said, there's no person a person spread at this time.

And the current public health risk is low.

Should the health risk to humans become elevated?

Can the public trust that the CDC is equipped to respond?

I'm afraid.

I know what your answer's going to be a me.

Go ahead me.

> > Yeah, I'm thinking about the question for If.

If it I mean the the risk to humans would go up if we start seeing that it spreads efficiently between people at that point, will the CDC respond quickly?

I mean, at that point, we're kind of behind the ball, right?

It's sort of like with COVID by the time the U.S. really recognize that it was you noticed.

In the U.S. it was all over the U.S. then we had to do really, really, really difficult measures to try.

And, you know, mitigate the number of deaths from COVID and those measures were drastic.

It arguably might have led us to this current moment today lot of pushback.

Again, that's why you want to prevent this moment.

You want to take targeted approaches and so to get back to your question, how the CDC response once it spreading between people rapidly I'm worried.

I think everyone I talked to his word we're seeing major workplace cuts.

We're seeing this information at a very high level.

Now there's this issue without for vaccine.

So I don't know if we will see gration warp speed.

So no, it would be really bad.

> > I and I understand that now from talking to you over the last me that that's why kind of painted the question in that light because it sounds like we're already behind the ball and that is not good as will continue to reiterate from an issue through the COVID pandemic.

Now to potential future pandemics.

Just really quickly want to get to this point.

Julie.

When I talk about trust, there's concern that we're not getting the full picture from the CDC.

Are you hearing anything about the data or maybe a lack of it that's available online.

> > Well, I know a lot of organizations, including my own, are trying to download existing data set over the fear that they're going to be purged by the new Apparently one of the reasons that the the head of the vaccine division at the FDA was forced out was because he did not want to let people sort of basically muck around in the adverse event reporting system that the FDA keeps.

You know, there are a lot of data sets that are that are fairly that are used only for science that there are people who now certain point to go in and make changes to.

So yes, there we had a huge problem of public trust during COVID, but I don't think they're necessarily making it any better.

Now.

> > Amy, one angle that you're following that feat people could see with the KFF Health News network right now is this immigration angle, this anti-immigrant fervor and how it's actually connected to the bird flu.

Can you make that connection for us right > > Yeah.

So let me say, like if we want to prevent this from becoming a pandemic.

> > There's a few keys.

We want to try and, you know, make there be want to detect cases among animals, specifically cows and poultry and try and contain those outbreaks on those farms.

The other thing we need to do a big important part is prevent people from being infected and also if they are the tech, those cases really quickly and make sure they don't spread, OK, so there that's where we get to immigration because the people who are most at risk of getting the bird flu around 65 to 70 people.

So far our farm workers, the people who work closely with cows are with poultry and the majority of those people are immigrants they tend to be Latino.

So.

What's happening now?

And I've been talking with groups that actually do outreach to make sure that farm workers who work with livestock are protected and also that they know about what the bird flu is and that they know that they should get tested when they have certain symptoms like conjunctivitis or flu symptoms, they should get tested and that it can be free, et cetera.

The people who do that outreach are saying now they're having a really hard time because farm workers are no longer going to big gatherings where they used to kind of hand out and talk to people about the bird flu.

They're not going to hospitals are not going to clinics.

They're mainly hiding to go out.

People tell me they're not even going to go get groceries.

Some people are even going to work that the people who are that's it.

They don't want to talk to anyone.

They don't want to leave the house just because they're terrified of these very high-profile raids.

Where people sometimes, you know, with no signs of having a criminal record.

Has been arrested and even I talk to people who have visas who are So they're not even necessarily undocumented.

A great opportunity for me to underscore one more time, something my friends a job to said earlier.

> > He can't track what is invisible.

Can you take about 30 seconds, Amy?

Just to help me understand what this looks like on the ground with the the CDC cuts and how it's impacting those outreach groups in terms of how they're treating the measles outbreak, particularly in Texas.

> > I'm not sure actually how the CDC cuts are changing the measles outbreak.

What I do know is that a lot of health department officials have had trouble talking to the CDC.

So the CDC cut off communication.

So that normal advice that was there, isn't there anymore?

> > Julie Rovner chief Washington correspondent for Camp at Health News.

Thank you for joining us on the show.

Thanks for having me.

The what the Health podcast is what you want to listen to that.

Download wherever that word.

Download that wherever you get your podcast.

I'm not as good as a as Julie Rovner is here at hosting the show.

Accident National Public Health correspondent.

Any where can people find your stories?

> > You can find me at Amy Manxman and I'm Kff Health > > Thank you so much, Amy.

I News.

appreciated.

Thank you for coming on the show.

Julian, Amy, appreciate it so much.

Today show produced by Chloe.

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