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Hello, and welcome to Louisiana Spotlight.

I'm Karen Leblanc, your host for tonight's show.

In 2019, residents of the unincorporated area in East Baton Rouge Parish voted to create Louisiana's newest city, St. George.

After years of legal battles, the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled in favor of the incorporation in 2024, leading to the birth of the state's fifth largest city.

Tonight, we will examine this historic transformation of East Baton Rouge Parish and explore the complex dynamics that led to this moment.

From the initial push for a separate school district to the broader implications for local governance.

We'll delve into the story of St. George and what it means for the future of our region.

But first, let's take a look at the history of this movement and the key events that led to the creation of St. After a decade long battle, St. George has finally emerged as Louisiana's newest city.

But as Mayor, Dustin Yates and the first city council step into their roles, they face yet another battle determining their own salaries and a debate that's reignited tensions about the cost of running Louisiana's fifth largest city.

Good evening.

We'll begin our meeting.

This is the St. George regular city council meeting scheduled for January 14th, 2025 at 5 p.m..

I will call this meeting to order.

First thing we'll do is we will open this up for, public comment.

The first one I have here is Mr. Chris Rials.

What's being proposed at $175,000 would be the highest council managed city in America, four times the salary that Sandy Springs, Georgia.

Twice the salary for the mayor for Dallas, Texas.

There are two philosophies in play.

One is for compensation that you get what you pay for.

That's one philosophy.

But Sandy Springs philosophy is public service is just about that, service.

I encourage you to adopt fully the Sandy Springs model for compensation of this office.

Thank you for this time.

Thank.

Chris Rials is the founding co-incorporator for the City of St. George and the St. George transition district treasurer.

He's been integral to the formation of the new city from the very beginning.

Chris, when I called, to ask to interview you, you suggested we meet here at a church.

Why is this so significant to the evolution of St. George?

Great.

Thank you for asking.

We're in Woodlawn Baptist Church, which is here in Shenandoah, at the heart of St. George.

And all of our planning meetings and all of our rallies were here in this facility.

And the graciousness of Pastor Lewis Richardson and his staff allowed us to use this facility to plan the future City of St. George and also the future community school district.

So this is the heart of St. George here at Woodlawn Baptist Church.

Tell me about your role.

Well, as you may know, there was two petitions that we had to go through to get the city of St. George.

The first one that I referred to, I was a researcher and a supporter for those who were moving forward as the co-incorporators.

We did not get enough signatures in 2015 to move forward, so we had to wait two years to restart the petition.

So in 2017, I then volunteered to be one of the co-incorporators to lead the effort to create the largest petition drive in the history of Louisiana, which we successfully did in seven months, to gather over 17,000 signatures to create our new city.

And this was a long journey, and this began with a desire to create a school district in St. George.

That's correct.

Tell me about that.

Yes.

So in a little bit of a history, in 2005, the City of Central was formed, but they had asked to have their own independent school district, and they were told by the legislature, you need to create your own city.

So they did in 2007, they created their own school district.

So the precedent for us had already been set here in this parish by the City of Central and the formation of their community school district.

So we moved forward in 2012 asking for the right to have our own school district.

The legislature told us and then Senator Sharon Weston Broome, who later became the mayor of the City of Baton Rouge and East Baton Rouge Parish, told us that if we wanted to have our own school district, we needed to create our own city.

So that's what we did.

We created our own city.

Today, I am pleased to present a comprehensive proposal for a transition plan that has been carefully crafted to ensure the continued delivery of essential governmental services in the newly incorporated City of St. George.

This I saw the advent of an emerging city as a division for our city and our, parish.

I saw it as a challenge in terms of the ability to sustain resources for our citizens throughout the city and parish.

The city of St. George obviously was not the first to become their own city.

From East Baton Rouge Parish, but St. George seemed to be the most consequential.

Was that where the concern was?

Because we had Zachary, because we had central, because we had Baker also do these in the past?

Well, first of all, from a historical perspective, there's some distinct differences between those cities and, the city of St. George, the most recent city, to break away was, central.

Central, was not intertwined, if you will, geographically, with the city of Baton Rouge.

But St. George certainly was.

And it was always my goal to unify our city and parish.

And St. George was definitely a move in the wrong direction.

The creation of the City of St. George was driven by organizers.

Now, there were citizens who were a part of that area who did not get to vote on that.

Right?

Then the impact is far reaching beyond the city of St. George.

And so the people in the city of Baton Rouge and the parish of East Baton Rouge did not have an opportunity to vote when the initiative was first put on the ballot.

Communities of color were in had an opportunity to vote.

They were configured in that.

And then the second time around, they were not part of the new vote that took place.

And so inclusion should be a thought of leadership.

It should be a thought of, building communities and so when you look at a, a city that is over 70% white, that is pulled away, it makes you wonder what exactly was the motivation.

Is it because that Baton Rouge was becoming demographically shifting 52%, African-American?

What was the motivation?

I believe that cities that thrive and prosper are cities that everyone, regardless of your, skin color, regardless of your socio economic portfolio.

When everybody comes, we have a stronger city.

Can you explain to viewers how the boundaries were drawn, and honestly, were race and or class factored into the boundary drawing?

Excellent question.

And our first petition drive, as occurred in 2012, we looked at by precinct who signed the petition.

Overall, we had to have 25%.

There was a large disparity in terms of who signed the petition, who wanted to be a part of the City of St. George.

The high was somewhere around 50%, which is in this area where we're sitting.

The low was in areas where we had 2 to 3% of those who actually signed the petition that want to be a part of St. George.

So in the second boundary drawing, it was pretty simple.

We only looked at who signed the petition, who wanted to be a part of the city of St. George.

And if a precinct did not have 25% of its eligible registered voters they selected previously, they did not want to be a part of St. George.

So our boundary was based upon clearly every precinct had to have had 25% of the eligible registered voters signed the petition.

Now, after that boundary was drawn, what we've said all along, anyone who is contiguous to the boundaries of St. George, all you have to do is ask petition to become a part of the City of St. George.

And our commitment, as the leaders were, that if you want to be a part of St. George as the whole precinct or as a community or as an individual, if you're contiguous, that our boundaries come on in.

We'd love to have you.

So the boundaries of St. George will remain fluid into the future?

Absolutely.

We have a we have been receiving requests all the way through this process.

We want to be a part of the city.

We want to be annexed into St. George.

In fact, we've actually had areas that were in the boundaries of the city of Baton Rouge who contacted us and said, how do we become a part of the city of St. George?

So there's a process in the ordinances of how to do that.

And with the passage of those ordinances, if you're hearing this and you continue with with us, come on and be a part of a great city of St. George.

You're welcome to be here.

To help us understand the vision for St. George and its future.

We are fortunate to be joined right now by the city's first mayor, Dustin Yates.

Welcome, Mayor Yates.

Thank you.

Glad to be here.

Such an important subject.

So glad to have you here.

First obvious question.

What motivated you to want to serve as mayor of the City of St. George?

Now, originally, the governor appointed you in this process, but you are going to run officially for this position.

And as it stands now, unopposed correctly.

Am I correct?

As of the time I walked in the studio, yes.

Okay, so back to the original question.

What motivated you to take on this role?

That's a great question.

I asked myself that all the time.

You know, I have a lifelong service.

I've been in service my entire adult career.

I was a public school teacher for four years.

Segue away from that into into the fire service where I've spent the last two decades?

So for the last two decades, I've been in the St. George community, providing public safety resources and in emergency response, to to all residents of the community.

And, you know, I've been involved with this effort for quite some time, you know, during the first petition drive, I was one of the, the the original three, co-incorporators.

So I've kind of seen it from its infancy as far as a grassroots effort.

And moving forward and, you know, going through two petition processes and five years of litigation.

And then, you know, getting the the call one day from from the governor and asking me if, if I would, would, would, you know, do this on an interim basis.

And at the end of the day, we just felt like we, we we had too much invested in this process.

We want to see it through.

We want to make sure that that the original, concept of St. George was carried out, and, and and part of that, obviously, is to, is to create the, the foundation of, of a great city, but also, the, you know, the future of creating additional educational choices for our kids.

We are in the midst of creating this evolving city.

We just, saw a meeting that was, discussion of salaries.

As it stands right now, the city is structured to be governed by a home rule charter.

That means it's a council run.

You, the mayor, if elected, would be, sort of the representative, but you would have a city manager handling the day to day logistics.

So we got a mayor, a city manager and council members, all of which will be paid positions.

Is that the original vision and will that be the intent of governance going forward?

So the Home Rule charter goes to a vote in March.

So that's not not a definitive item yet.

The voters will get to choose, what plan of government they would like to have.

And really, the important part for us on the Home Rule charter is that, the voters get to decide, absence of a home rule charter.

If we want to change our plan of government, we'll have to go to the state legislature.

And, I can tell you, I've been through that process many times.

And we've always felt strongly all the way back to 2013 that we want our residents to decide, we want the plan of government to be in their hands.

So any future changes to that?

Or, you know, once it gets approved, a march would have to go back to the voters.

It won't rely on a on a mayor or or a council.

And to your point of, of the form of government, and I know this is going around and quite a bit, and people are referring to it as a council manager form of government.

It is not, the charter, if you really look at it and look at the roles and responsibilities of it, it's a blend.

It's a hybrid model.

So over the last 25 years, what you've seen in government structures all over the country is that, folks have said, well, there's good parts of having the strong mayoral role, and there's good parts of having this council manager role.

Well, maybe there's a there's a happy medium there.

And look, I didn't create the home rule charter and I didn't create the home rule.

I created the commission to do it.

But this was residents of the city of St. George, from from all, all nooks and crannies of the city that came together.

To, to kind of, create this document.

And their charge, really and it's a huge charge to have is that, you know, works well other places doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work well here.

So they had to to research and look at all these different forms of government and then kind of apply it to St. George.

What do they think is going to work well here?

And what they came up with was really a system of checks and balances.

And it's not you know, people are thrown around this ceremonial mayor thing.

Is that does the mayor do ceremonial things?

Yes.

Just like in every other city in America.

The mayor will will absolutely have to do all the ceremonial functions.

But there's quite a lot more to that job than ceremonial function.

So let's help viewers wrap their head around this, right.

Because this is a new concept for Louisiana.

You would be literally paving the path for this.

It's a public private partnership.

And in a basic understanding for viewers, how would this run?

How would it work?

I guess, what aspect of the governance of it, the public private partnership.

We talked about contracting out certain services.

So it's not run like the Larson Act like the typical city that's run well as far as the.

the public private partnership you're talking about.

Absolutely.

Part of our vision from the very beginning was to contract out services.

And why do we want to contract out services?

And the answer is pretty simple, is that you see what has happened to the traditional American city over time.

They get, you know, they get swamped, really, with long term debts, long term liabilities, and really efficiency issues.

And that's something that we always wanted to avoid in St. George.

A contract out for a service.

If that service isn't working for you, you go find somebody else or a different company.

That can provide a great service.

As far as, you know, the day to day operations, goes the mayor's a full time role.

So the mayor and the city manager are going to work hand-in-hand.

By the city manager handling the day to day operations of the actual functioning part of filling potholes and managing contracts, and allows them to do things like economic development, which is going to be huge in St. George, because as everybody knows, our bulk of our revenue comes from sales tax revenue.

So if we don't have somebody in place that is driving that on a daily basis, driving business, driving that development apart, part of it.

Everybody is also aware that sales tax money is generally migratory, right.

Sales tax revenue will leave your area.

And we've seen that, with with a lot of cities.

So that's a huge, huge role in it, not to mention all the intergovernmental affairs.

So and I'm glad we're talking about this.

This helps clarify what you would be doing day to day.

That's correct.

Right.

Beyond ceremonial official business.

So marketing and business development.

So the other part of it too is that East Baton Rouge Parish is extremely unique.

And we have so many governmental entities that interact inside the city of St. George limits.

Right.

So, you know, we're going to be one of the only cities in the country that doesn't have necessarily their own fire department under the purview of their own law enforcement under their purview, or their own library system or their own recreation system.

So these are all governmental agencies that we have to, you know, not only interact with, but we have to participate with them and make sure that those relationships to, you know, stay where they need to be in order for the citizens of St. George, you know, to get what they're looking for.

You know, East Baton Rouge Parish.

The last time I looked, I think there's like, 45 different commissions.

That that represent different functions around the parish.

And a lot of those commissions, positively and sometimes negatively affect the St. George area.

So that's another role that the mayor is going to be constantly abreast of.

Not to mention every two weeks we have a council meeting.

I will preside over the council meetings.

And people say, well, you don't get a vote.

Will I get a veto?

Okay.

So the catalyst, as we understand it for the creation of the city of St. George was the creation of a school district, neighborhood schools.

Where are we at in that process?

Is that top on the agenda?

Realistically?

What's the timeline for that?

What can you tell us about the creation of a school district?

Sure.

So I've been pretty open and honest about this since the beginning.

That, you know, I was appointed to be the mayor of a city, to start a city, creating a whole new school system is is really a different animal.

So I will tell you this, and I feel comfortable saying this is that we do have people that are currently working on it.

Lines of communication are open, between us and, other entities that will be involved in it.

So I think what you'll see short term is I think you'll see some positive motion, moving forward this year.

Whether it be legislation or cooperative endeavor agreements or, or what have you, that that you'll people will have a better idea.

Timeline wise.

If you ask me for a timeline today, I can't tell you.

All I can tell you is this, I hope it doesn't take 12 years.

I've already been through that process.

I might be dead by then.

So, I don't think it's going to take 12 years.

Oddly enough, a lot of the folks that that maybe didn't agree with the city of St. George.

We actually aligned quite a bit on some of the educational things that that we want to work on.

So I think there's going to be a lot less resistance, on that front.

And I think at the end of the day, we're going to find something that is going to work not only for us, but also the East Baton Rouge Parish school system.

So there's been a lot of discussion and some polarization about the process and about there being racial undertones in the petition process.

I mean, you heard from the story, we just we just so it's no secret about this and, you know, Sharon Weston Broome raised concerns that a 71% white city splitting from a 52% black city makes her and many others questioned the motivation.

What do you say to that?

Yeah.

So I can tell you exactly why we formed our own city and had nothing to do with race.

It had to do with poor governance.

It had to do with poor school choices.

It had to do with, poor planning and zoning decisions that were made inside the city of St. George.

So I understand the polarization around the race question.

You know, I thought Mr. Rials in the previous segment, answered it exactly how it happened.

Exactly how the process went.

Race was never factored into this.

This was one of the first questions that was ever asked to me when I became the mayor.

And, I answer the the same way that I'll answer it now.

I spent, you know, four years in a public school system that was majority minority students.

I loved every second of it.

Spent my rest of my life in public safety.

I never asked, before.

And in somebody's house, whether they were white or black or or anything else.

I've always been there to provide service, and that's exactly what we're going to do in St. George.

And also to Mr. Rials point.

You know, there's no wall here.

And if people want to be a part of St. George Show, they're more than welcome.

So before we go, I have to ask, where are we at with the, the revenue stream?

When does that money come in?

And I believe it's what, some $40 million in sales tax revenue that will be coming to the city to fund services.

Have you started receiving those funds?

If not, when do you expect to receive those funds?

Yeah.

So, I guess the quickest answer to that is that, no, we have not received it.

On December 7th, our voters approved, tax transfer where they were transferring the two cent from parish tax to $0.02 of the city tax.

So that effect, that tax goes into effect April 1st.

So we'll actually start receiving that, probably by the second week of June.

Still in the process of, of of hashing out an agreement with the city parish.

And really, that's that's a positive thing, not just for St. George, but for East Baton Rouge Parish, because we know that they're going to have to do some things differently, maybe, and change some things.

And we want to make sure that they have a long runway on that.

And so a lot of that agreement really has to do with that.

But once that agreement's done, they'll, there'll be some sales tax dollars will start flowing.

And another point of clarification, because there was some confusion.

What is considered the official date that St. George became a city?

Yeah.

The only date that I'm ever aware of is, October in 2019, when the voters voted on it.

I've been asked that question so many times.

I've been asked to change that date so many times.

And I'll tell you the same thing.

I tell everybody else that date belongs to the voters.

That date does not belong to me.

You know, if I would ever arbitrarily try to change that, they should.

They should hang me up on my toes.

So it belongs to them.

And unless a court comes in and says it's a particular date, our official incorporation date will always be in October of 2019.

I think.

Well, Mayor Dustin Yates, thank you for joining us and explaining to our viewers about the evolution of St. George.

We wish you well and we look forward to to watching this process.

So coming up, we will hear from both supporters and opponents of the St. George and Corporation as we explore the broader implications for our region.

But first, let's hear from one family in St. George about their reasons for wanting the new city.

My name is David Madaffari.

I've lived here in St. George for about 30 years now.

My parents grew up here.

I live here with my wife, Dana, and our three children, Luke, Nora, and Reed.

They are ages 14, 11, and eight.

Tell me how and why you got involved with the effort.

To, create a city out of St. George.

I've been following the story for a long time.

You know, the Baton Rouge school system over 30, 40 years just was not keeping up with, you know, even the parishes around us, Livingston, Ascension Parish, or even in our own parish with Zachary.

And so, once the idea of proposing a new school district, for just this area was being discussed, it made sense.

I was like, I can get behind this.

And once that failed and it became an effort to create a city, I was like, well, this is what they say we have to do, then this is what we're going to do.

And so when the first petitions came around, I didn't volunteer to do any of the, signatures.

But when they came to the door, I was like, absolutely.

And then from there, I started meeting some of the folks that were doing the petitioning for the first drive and the second drive.

What is your involvement today?

I am just a, humble, enthusiastic mouthpiece.

I'm not in any official capacity, but I. I keep up with all the council meetings.

Good evening.

You know, we're talking about salaries before we get some of the, you know, let's get some wins for the city first.

Let's get the money starting to come in.

Let's get our first council elected.

Let's start improving some roads.

Let's start spending the money and show people some tangible benefits of the city.

And then start talking about, you know, creating salaries for this council.

What we're asking as citizens is that we get the right, get it right the first time, because it seems like we're trying to put the cart before the horse.

So thank you very much.

You got to punctuate your sentences.

I'm just talking about capital letter and ending punctuation right outside.

So the predicate is gathered.

That's the action word.

Now you.

So you homeschool your three children.

This is why the decision as husband and wife to homeschool the children, a lot of it.

The catalyst was Covid kind of because everybody was homeschooling at that point.

The kids were at home and we had it was never something that we had really thought about before, but we brought them home and it's been working for our family.

The schedule, the routine, the freedom.

Was there ever consideration given to enrolling your children in the public school system here?

No, not in Baton Rouge, unfortunately.

You know, we both grew up in the same neighborhood.

So to be, like, living in a house, you know, around the corner from our parents was always something that we wanted to do.

But we knew by doing that that we were going to be going to our kids were going to go to private school because being a real estate broker now, you know, schooling and safety are the two things that everyone wants for their children.

And so I have to answer these questions.

You know, what?

School districts are the best and I can't ever answer.

East Baton Rouge Parish, because the data just doesn't show it.

From all indications, based on people we've talked to.

It's going to be another legal fight to get a school system.

Hint it's going to take more time.

How does that sit with you, given all of the effort you've put into seeing this become a reality?

Well, I mean, the wheels of government move very slowly.

And so we I think we proved, at least with the St. George effort, is that if there's a will to do it in an effort that's put forward and to stick with it, it can get done.

And while the school district is, you know, we will never benefit from it, from our for our kids, just from a timing standpoint.

But it will benefit the parish and I will say just a city that I always say the rising tide lifts all boats.

So if St. George has the opportunity to create something different, exciting and effective, that's going to lift everybody in the parish Baton Rouge, Zachary Baker, all the in central.

So that's a long term view that I think everybody needs to see with this St. George effort.

Nothing changes overnight.

I think it's worth the fight because if my kids, kids can benefit from it, or anybody's kids can benefit from small community schools that, you know, it's it's worth it to me.

We are joined now by three individuals who are deeply involved in the St. George debate.

We have, Scott Bergeron.

He is a St. George resident and has been a longtime proponent of the city's incorporation.

Thank you for joining us.

We also have Carla Powell Lewis.

She is a member of the East Baton Rouge Parish School Board, vice president of the school board in 2023, president in 2024.

Welcome.

And then, of course, we have with us Doctor Belinda Davis and associate professor of political science at LSU and the president of One Community One School District.

Again, we appreciate you all here and sharing your insight and your expertise.

So, Scott, I'd like to start with you, longtime resident of St. George.

Tell me a little bit about how long you've lived there and why you felt the need for St. George to become its own city.

We moved back to, Baton Rouge and about 15 years ago, but we had left the parish, notably for schools, for our children to go to public schools and we came back.

But my business is here in the parish, happens to be on the line of St. George.

And ever so we have a lot at stake as I see it, business and our family.

When you say you have a lot at stake, what were you unhappy with that you felt could only be remedied by the creation of a city heading in the direction of the schools?

We need to see our schools where all children would want to go to them.

I go to work early in the morning, and I see children waiting at school bus stops at 530 in the morning.

That always concerns me.

I have grandkids.

They're all out of state, out of area.

I do like to be able to say there's a conversation that they could come to school here, but right now they would not.

And so Mrs. Powell Lewis.

I love to hear your reaction to what he just said.

As a member of the East Baton Rouge Parish School Board.

Yes.

So, thank you so much for sharing that, Mr. Badger.

On what, one of the things that comes to mind for me is where is the voice and what do I mean by that?

Is if there is a need for, different types of transportation strategies, if there is a need for a conversation about academia within our district schools, then let's hear your voice.

You know, has has the voices of those in the St. George area come to our school board?

Have they come to our school board meetings?

Have they expressed their concerns?

And then also, how can we assist you know, that it since the, the the conception or the inception of St. George, the school board members have changed the entire, board for it for a matter has actually changed.

We have six brand new members, who started as of January 2023.

Only three of our nine member board or incumbents.

And we would love to hear those voices of how can we assist in keeping the entire school district together and be able to assist with those changes.

I can't speak for, of course, anyone before me.

But the idea of saying that we now have educators on the board, including myself and a few others, brings a different outlook.

And so with that in mind, the idea of talking about what a school district should operate like might be a different conversation than it was when the conception of Saint John.

You bring up an interesting point, and that is it's not too late.

There's still time to work together to keep the school district whole.

Absolutely.

The residents of the new city of St. George happy.

That's what I'm hearing you say, that just because they pulled away and and became their own city, doesn't mean they need to pull away the school as well.

The schools as well.

Right?

Correct.

So, Doctor Belinda Davis, you have been for years involved as the president of one community, one school district.

You have passionately believed in keeping the EBR Parish School District whole.

Tell me, why is that so important even now?

Because you know it has become law.

They are a city.

Well, so first I like to just say that I think that the idea that we can figure this out together and that a breakaway school district does not have to occur, I'm more optimistic about that.

With the appointment of Superintendent Lamont Cole as the new superintendent of BBR, I think he brings a lot of fresh energy, a lot of, forward thinking.

If you go and, like, listen to the people who heard him speak at the rotary board just last month, there's a lot of enthusiasm around his experience and how we might be able to really push the East Baton Rouge Parish public school district forward.

Nobody is going to say that the district is perfect, right?

There's always room for improvement.

And I think that Superintendent Cole is just the man to give us that improvement.

But when it comes to the idea of keeping the school district together, the thing that concerns me the most about the balkanization of the East Baton Rouge Parish public school system is that as we continue to chop away pieces of our more affluent areas of town, we are leaving our most vulnerable students, at risk.

Right?

And so we know that these are students who need additional resources poured into wraparound services in order for them to be able to achieve their full educational potential.

And the way to do that is, as a whole district, rather than chopping us up into little pieces so that we end up leaving our most vulnerable students behind.

And there is a way, right, for people to find the school that works for them inside the East Baton Rouge Parish public school system, if you want a neighborhood school in St. George, you have a really great neighborhood schools that you can attend.

We have robust, gifted and talented programs.

We have magnet programs, we have focus area schools.

And so there's a way to get the school that works for you.

And when St. George leaves, if they do in a new school district, parents are going to find that their choices are limited.

So point's well taken.

But as I understand it, your experience was when your children were school age, you actually had neighbors on either side of you, and all of you were sending your kids to different schools.

There was no neighborhood school situation, am I correct?

That was the past.

Okay, that's the future.

And we can't relive that past.

But that was the past.

And, it was unacceptable for us as a young family.

On that note, let's let's talk about the dynamics here in East Baton Rouge Parish.

This culture that seems to be prevalent of sending your children to private schools.

If you have the means.

Right.

And typically, if you don't have the means, you're not in a private school.

Is there a concern that this is going to be exacerbated if St. George creates its own school district and pulls away for maybe our parish schools?

I think about the fact that I am a career educator in Baton Rouge.

So born and raised in North Baton Rouge.

But majority of the time of raising my son, I was a single parent, and he started off in a private school.

The first two years, of his schooling, in kindergarten, in first grade, and then in second grade, I found that number one, my salary did not equate to the amount of money that I needed to pay tuition.

So with that in mind, I applied for him to go to a magnet elementary school in the district.

He went there second, third and fourth grade.

At the fourth grade juncture, I began to have questions about the particular school that he was at because of the, the math education level.

That was me that he was being exposed to.

And so then, honestly, I found Hope and a neighborhood school.

So he ended up, not attending school 20 minutes away from my house, but attending school down the street, still at East Baton Rouge Parish.

And, I say all of that to say that when we think about what this particular separation or divide or even unification looks like, we don't know what the outcome will be.

You know, one of the conversations that I've had with parents, possibly even more than one, has been in the case that we have a separation of St. George School District from East Baton Rouge Parish, is that students won't be able to go to specialized programs, so they won't be able to go to the magnet program of their choice.

And then at the same time, does that limit, just like we were talking about transportation before, does that limit their interaction and access before we go because we are running out of time?

Doctor Davis, I just, you know, we talk a lot about the Sandy Springs model when we talk about St. George.

Sandy Springs is a town outside of Atlanta that broke away in 2005, and the cone cooperators of St. George even visited Sandy Springs to learn from them.

What lessons can be learned from this process, and are we going to continue to see cities break away, both locally, nationally?

Is there some concern that this is a precedent and it's not one that sits well with you?

Well, so it is a national phenomenon that we're seeing, small communities break away from larger urban areas.

So that is a national concern.

But one of the things that I think we have learned from watching Zachary and watching central break away in particular, is that smaller school districts like this are expensive to run because of economies of scale.

And so the property tax and ever for education is 0.48 mills in central, it's 0.58.

And in Zachary it's 0.7.

And so one of the things that's going to happen if the St. George community School District or whatever they name it is created, is that there are going to be tax increases for that, for that community.

And right.

So Zachary, in Central had to raise their taxes to pay for education, and they did not have to take any of the legacy retiree costs from ever with them, which was a mistake that even Senator Bodie White now recognizes that it was fiscally irresponsible to do that.

And so for the St. George School District, if it is created, they are going to be responsible for the legacy cost for the commitments that their taxpayers made to employees of our district.

And the Baton Rouge Area Foundation commissioned a report that when this was the Southeast Community School District, those costs ranged, depending on how you calculate it, from 50 million to $250 million.

And so as we start thinking about both the emotional and the community costs of creating a new school district, we also have to think about the financial cost because it's real.

As you saw from the video earlier, the people in St. George are worried about the cost of running their own city, and they're trying to be fiscally responsible.

And so they're going to have to be made aware of the true financial consequences that are going to come with this breakaway school district, and it's going to be increased property tax cost.

It's going to be responsibility for retiree legacy costs that they're going to over, and it's going to be bonded indebtedness for the fiscal things.

The agreement that we entered into when they, as taxpayers were part of our school district.

And so those are going to be really complicated and really difficult conversations to have.

Well, Scott, before we go, as the resident of St. George, a newly formed city, any any parting thoughts that you want to share based on everything that was discussed here?

So, so it seems obvious the city has been incorporated.

We have that the schools are going to be separate.

And so it's a separate conversation that hopefully can continue.

And the costs are certainly going to be have to be a component of that.

The residents would be concerned about.

It's a lot of work ahead.

It's a it's a giant lift.

It is a big mountain to climb.

But the people will have to make those decisions and see if that's where they want to continue going forward.

That was the original impetus, but maybe the costs are too high.

Maybe that's the reason for a good conversation.

Well, you know, change in evolution, you know, and we will we will continue to watch this developing story.

I want to thank the three of you for coming on our show to share your expertise and your insight and and your story about being a resident of St. George.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

All right.

Well, I want to, as we said, thank them for their insights.

We're going to continue our discussion shortly.

But first, let's take a closer look at the most recent St. George City Council meeting and the new fight over the future of the city.

Mr. Norman Browning, well, thank you.

Council, for the opportunity to speak.

As you know, I put in a lot of time on this city and the development of this city.

It's very emotional for me.

And, yes, I attended Sandy Springs, Georgia.

We looked at central.

We looked at a number of cities.

We weren't here to mimic one particular city like it's been suggested.

We wanted our city the best city in Louisiana.

That's what we all want.

What we need is great leadership.

We saw that in the last election for East Baton Rouge Parish.

Now, what does that salary pay?

I can't ask a man or woman to sit and do a full time job for $42,000.

What are you going to get?

Now, I'm not saying it's a $175,000, but it don't.

You're in 42,000.

I want to do it right now to say that we can grow into it.

Hey, let's wait.

Let's wait and see what it looks like.

Heck, no.

Let's get it done right.

I didn't give 15 years to wait and see.

To build into my city.

Heck no!

I want to hit the ground running.

And I want to put the right people in leadership.

Thank you council.

All right.

I don't have any more cards with you.

And you asked we speak with respect and courtesy, and good decorum.

Everyone in opposition to the vote, with the salaries abided by this.

Can you come up here and speak of, I really can█t hear you.

I█m sorry.

The mayor asked us that we all speak with respect and courtesy and decorum.

He specifically asked us that we respect the opposition of those that did not agree with us, and we might protect the culture and the spirit of the new city that we in, that we worked so hard to build.

Mr. mayor, I propose to you that the last speaker did not do that.

He raised his voice as he chastised.

He spoke down to us.

Yes.

That did not abide by your request in here.

The numbers on this are wrong.

I'm afraid that the last speaker has shown that the spirit behind this is also wrong.

As you just saw, there will be growing pains as the City of St. George works to build its foundation and to continue our conversation, we are joined again by Mr. Scott Bergeron, Doctor Belinda Davis, and we have a newcomer to our panel.

He is Dwight Hudson.

He is a Baton Rouge councilman, district nine, of which St. George is a part of your district.

So welcome.

Thank you for joining us.

So, Councilman Hudson, we're going to we're going to start with you.

So we we just saw in that footage there is a lot of heated discussions over salaries.

I just want to get your thoughts right now, on that I know you're not part of that conversation.

Or are you are you running for council because that change, it's going to be pulling out of your own district?

No.

No, no.

So I will not be running for council.

I will not be running for mayor.

I won't be running for anything in St. George.

I feel like my role on the, on the Metro Council right now is to help facilitate the transition.

And that's my focus moving forward.

Well, so what is your reaction when you see this heated discussion about trying to establish reasonable salaries for these positions, these new positions?

Yeah, I think St. George's is seeing the reality that local government could be messy at times, right?

I mean, we've certainly seen that on the Metro Council as well with some of our more contentious meetings.

My thought is that we'll probably have more of those in the future, and that's okay.

That's good.

It's good to have good, lively discussion.

At the end of the day, I'm happy with where the salaries ended up.

I think, if you want to have the best city in America, you've got to be willing to pay to have the good elected leadership.

So I hope moving forward, those leaders take it seriously, and they, they bring the value that those salaries demand.

Now, I know you weren't at that meeting, but you just saw part of it.

I was at the meeting, you know, you weren't.

Then there wasn't the meeting.

So what were you what was your reaction when you when you saw that happening that back in that fourth and that that tension over the salaries where do you stand with this?

Certainly was a lot of tension in the room that night.

Not really for the higher level of salaries, but really not a big issue.

It can be messy.

It's a hard debate.

At the end of the day, we move forward.

Still 100% for St. George.

Win or lose, with whoever the council folks, they get elected on the charter.

However, goes up or down still for St. George.

All right, so, Councilman Hudson, I want to go back to you.

We know that, about $40 million will be pulled out of East Baton Rouge Parish and into the coffers of the new city of St. George.

Will this impact vital services, in particular public safety?

Yeah.

So what we're seeing so far is there's not a direct impact because we've been able to do some cost saving in order to stave off some of those cuts.

A lot of that is done being done through attrition right now.

And that's what this calendar year, where we're not seeing the full brunt of the St. George, transition yet.

But moving forward, the new mayor has committed to, going in and doing a deep dive on our budget and ensuring that we rightsize all of our departments to to make sure we, plan for these cuts.

That'll be necessary.

Doctor Belinda Davis, I know your concern primarily is focused on a unified school district, but how can East Baton Rouge Parish and the city of Baton Rouge and St. George work together productively to ensure the well-being of everyone?

Do you have an opinion right now?

Any advice?

And so I think that there need to be candid conversations, between city, parish government and the City of St. George to make sure that there are not any unanticipated legacy costs associated with splitting the city apart.

Like, so what we don't want to see is, what's left of the city of Baton Rouge and the unincorporated areas of the parish left holding the bag for expenses that really should be shared by all of us, as we saw with Zachary in Central.

And those pension obligations that were, were not met when those districts were created.

And so I would hope that the conversations between the new mayor and the Metro Council and the City of St. George, or thinking holistically about what those unanticipated cost might be, for what's left behind.

So I think that that, that that's important.

And then the other interesting thing I just thought of as we were sitting here watching this and first let me just say democracy is hard.

And so thank you for your service.

On the Metro Council.

But it does like strike me as we have now, this new city that's a very large city.

Right next to the city of Baton Rouge, is that we are now the only city in East Baton Rouge Parish without a mayor.

Right.

We have a mayor that we share with the entire city parish.

But the city of Baton Rouge does not have its own city council.

We don't have our own mayor to govern our own fate.

We are at the mercy of a metro council that is in part, made up of people that are not representing the city of Baton Rouge.

And so I just think in thinking about democracy and the ability of taxpayers to hold elected officials accountable for their actions, that that's something to think about.

There is an interesting argument made in this process, and that is when mayor, Eby our former abbey, our parish mayor, President Sharon Weston Broome, said that St. George and Baton Rouge were shared a border.

They were located together.

And the comment was made, well, if we were so important, why weren't we incorporated into the city of Baton Rouge?

Why did you leave us unincorporated if it was so important for us to share this border in this common ground while we're we never.

What?

What is your thought with that?

My exact point all those time.

My businesses for 35 years is a balls throw from the city.

If they wanted us as the city, they should have in excess.

It's an interesting thing to go.

It is an interesting point.

My home visitors come and they look and go, how is this not the city?

Right?

Well, I think that part of it is related to taxes.

Right.

And so individuals in the unincorporated areas, prior to St. George, did not want to have to pay any increased taxes that might come with being a part of the city of Baton Rouge.

And that's why I think you're going to see a whole lot of resistance around raising taxes, even to pay for a new school district that started this whole process to begin with.

Because there, you know, a large reason why people weren't asking to be annexed into the city related to the tax burden.

Councilman Hudson, I got to ask you, what happens to your district now that St. George will be on its own?

It will be similar to how Zachary Central and Baker works.

We still have council people for those areas that that live in those areas and represent those areas.

So folks have to keep in mind we still have a parish wide garbage contract, parish wide sewer system, parish wide library system, many other parish wide functions, that need representation for that area.

And so essentially the role doesn't change.

Although I will lose some of the day to day functions like, dealing with potholes, dealing with, neighborhood drainage complaints and that sort of thing.

Also zoning would be another one.

So.

All right.

We are just about out of time.

Before we go, I'd like to hear a final thoughts from each of you.

Scott will start with you.

Very good.

I'd love to see a, an adult conversation between the city, parish and St. George to get this resolved and get it moved on, you know, have a conversation about what's the money, what are the terms, what are the legacy costs.

And that's all part of terms and conditions.

And getting this closed out and, get it finalized and move forward and away from all that.

It's such a litigious scenario that we've been in for so long, Councilman Hudson.

Yeah, I think in the short term, we need a real focus on the transition of services and finalizing that agreement.

It's concerning to me that we passed a budget this year that was predicated on basic terms of the agreement that ended up not being signed, before we were able to vote on it.

So that's that's number one moving forward.

But in the longer term, I think we need to continue the discussion around the school system.

I, I'm a parent with two school aged, kids in the East Baton Rouge Parish school system.

And I have concerns.

And so I want to see that that discussion continue and ultimately see an independent school district.

I would like to see the discussion, continue around education and moving our entire public school system forward.

I want to see real conversations around the needs that, the folks in the St. George area feel are being unmet by the public school system system as it's currently constituted.

And I would like for us to have real conversations about, how choice is going to be limited, for the most vulnerable people in our, both of our school districts.

If we end up dividing ourselves again.

All right.

Well, again, I want to thank the three of you for taking the time to come here and share with our viewers your insight and your expertise.

It's very helpful for the larger population to understand.

Well, I'm afraid we have run out of time for our discussion tonight, but I want to thank all of our guests for sharing their perspectives on this historic change and our region.

So what are you, our viewers think?

We encourage you to comment on tonight's show by visiting LPB Dawgs Louisiana Spotlight and clicking the Join the Conversation link.

We would love to hear your thoughts on the creation of St. George and its implications for our region.

We want to thank you for watching and remember that even as our community changes, we all share a stake in its future.

Good night.

For a copy of this program, call 1-800-973-7246 or go online to lpb.org.