This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

>> Our connection this hour was made with the best of times, and it was made with the worst of times.

We're talking this hour about A Tale of Two Rochester's as real estate broker Mark Siwiec recently put it.

Consider this just over 30 years ago, the average age of a first time home buyer in the greater Rochester market was 28 years old.

Today, the average age of a first time home buyer is 39 years old.

It's remarkable.

Nearly 40 years old, to buy your first home.

And that number is still rising.

It's a sign of pain and fear for people who might want to own a home but can't or worry about the future.

Contrast that with luxury home buyers and sellers.

It's really the best of time for them.

Sedgwick has data that he's going to share this hour on how really the wealthiest are doing just fine.

The rest?

Not really.

And now this could change in certain ways.

There are some things on the horizon that could affect how affordable homes are.

We'll talk about that coming up.

And we'll talk about the ongoing inventory crisis.

We've known about that now for years.

Could anything finally shake things up there?

If you've got stories to share on buying or selling a home, horror stories, happy stories, good.

Bad.

we'd love to hear from you this hour.

It's 8442952.

If you want to call the program toll free.

8442958255263 WXXI.

If you call from Rochester.

2639994.

Email the program Connections at WXXI.

Wxxi.org.

Greg called from San Diego last hour.

If you're not on the greater Rochester market, how's your housing market?

How are things going for you?

It's tough going here.

Mark Siwiec, broker and owner of Elysian Homes by Mark Siwiec and Associates.

Welcome back to the program to you.

>> Thanks for having me.

Good, bud.

>> It is, you know, I mean, like, if you are looking to buy a home, unless you're in that luxury market, let's just start there.

Still tough times, huh?

>> It's still very, very tough.

a friend of mine actually listed a property for sale in Brighton.

A small little ranch.

put it on the market for sale for $425,000 a few days ago.

It just sold yesterday.

$250,000 over asking.

>> Oh.

Hold on.

>> And this is.

>> This is.

>> On the market for for 25.

Yep.

And it sells for 675.

Yep.

And how long?

>> four days.

Five days.

And it's a gorgeous place, but it's small.

It's a small little house.

>> 675.

>> Yeah.

>> Ten years ago, that was not even thinkable.

>> No, not even.

No, not at all.

Not at all.

And the buyer who is purchasing the property cannot rely on a bank to finance it.

Why?

Because the bank isn't going to.

The appraisal isn't going to come state that it's worth $675,000.

A buyer is going to have to come to the table on the day of closing with a satchel of cash.

>> Wow.

>> Now, this is not a first time homebuyer, I assume.

>> I have no idea who purchased it, but but, yeah, it can't be a first time home buyer.

>> Because the average age, as you put it, as as you point out, the average age of a first time home buyer in the greater Rochester market has gone from 28 years old a generation ago to 39 today.

>> Yeah.

So that's actually a national statistic.

Oh, that.

>> Even here.

>> 39 nationally.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

That's.

I'll use it's it's almost sinful.

I mean, these hopes and dreams of a brighter tomorrow.

The American dream, owning your own house.

All this, it's been stolen from younger Americans.

>> is it that people.

Well, I've got an email that kind of addresses this point, which I'll get to coming up, and.

And I'm sure we'll get more feedback this hour.

I wonder if, if if it's a combination of things.

I mean, certainly the economy fear about jobs, which is what the email I have, which we'll talk about coming up, hints at.

But do people, you know, want to rent more?

Are they more itinerant?

Are they moving more or do they see themselves as not staying in the same place more?

I mean, what.

>> Do you.

>> Mean, there is all of that?

But I think the, the vast majority of younger Americans really would like to purchase their own property.

Yes.

They're itinerant, and yes, they they move from job to job, et cetera, et cetera.

But there's still an enormous number of people, and we work with buyers all the time who are hopeful, who are desirous of purchasing their own home.

So at the age of 72, they're not having to pay rent to a landlord.

>> Yeah.

And so as you look at kind of the story of two Rochester's, so you've got the challenge for the first time homebuyers, the challenge for those on that part of the market.

And then the luxury market is a different story.

How many homes in the last year or so sold for more than $1 million in our market?

>> Can I give you the number?

Probably about ten, 15 years ago, because that's the contrast.

>> Start with ten, 15.

>> Years.

>> Ten, 15 years ago.

Ambassador Drive, a gorgeous street in Brighton right off of East Avenue.

that whole neighborhood, Trevor.

Sandringham.

it was.

You would be shocked if a property on that in that neighborhood, if there were more than five properties in the neighborhood selling for in excess of $1 million.

The priciest neighborhood in the area.

this past year, 86 properties having sold in Monroe County in excess of $1 million, an increase of 30% from the year before.

So post COVID.

you know, Tale of Two Cities, the haves increasingly have and the have nots are increasingly struggling.

>> What can be done about that?

Is there anything on the horizon that's going to help someone just trying to buy their first home in our market, not $1 million home.

>> Their first home?

>> I've been saying for a long while, we need governmental intervention.

so post, from 2008 2009, the Great Recession, builders here in Monroe County have built 18,000 fewer homes than are required for the the buyers who are interested in actually purchasing 18,000.

So let's assume for the next year that we build 2000 new homes, 2500 new homes.

We're still 16,000 shy.

And until those until there is more product available.

we're going to continue to struggle.

and when you, when you drill down even further.

sure.

It's great if we, you know, build another $650,000 property.

But what we really need, our starter homes, we need 1200 1500 square foot properties.

The problem is that when you're looking at a 1500 square foot property, a modest home, you multiply that by $250 per square foot, a modest amount of money that one pays price per square foot for.

For new construction.

You're looking at what, $375,000 there?

And that doesn't include the price of the lot.

So you're looking at $400,000 plus.

>> For a first.

>> Time home buyer can't afford that even close.

>> No.

No.

So again I mean, I've had this dream for the past few years in which we get the city of Rochester and we get Monroe County, and we get the state of New York all coming together.

and offering incentives for first time home buyers.

And then you get something like ESL, who, you know ESL has this enormous endowment, charitable endowment.

What is it, $300 million, $400 million or something?

and we we tap into that and we get them to offer, offer up incentives, for those who are, who are interested.

That's the only way this happens.

That's the only way.

And then we got to cut through red tape.

>> Well, I mean, so the red tape, which is obviously, you know, a big, broad term, but that's at the debate of a lot of policy circles, questions that are happening at different levels of government.

We saw in the presidential campaign a year ago, Vice President Harris was talking at the convention about building 3 million new houses in the country, understanding that in blue states and blue cities, it's harder to build a house.

It is harder in California to build a house than it is in Texas.

And is there anything that you've seen policy wise that would start to fix that here?

>> No.

>> I'd love to know.

I'd love I'd love to.

A lot of it.

I mean, what I have seen, what I have heard in the conversations that I've been engaged in, are talking to builders who have set aside the land.

They've got a list of 200 buyers interested in building a house.

They draw up gorgeous plans.

They go before the the town planning board and they're shot down because you get six people saying, nope, no, no future development here in my backyard.

A lot of NIMBYism playing out.

Unfortunately.

and their voices seem somehow or another to be louder than the voices of the 200.

So.

>> The small group of the wealthiest have a lot of power.

>> Yeah.

Well, you know what?

That's actually interesting.

I haven't actually thought of this small group as being wealthy, but I bet you anything you're probably right.

that that these are probably wealthier individuals.

Yeah.

>> Who are in the Nimby class?

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> okay.

>> So most especially.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

>> No no no.

I mean, we're trying to just work through the state of the market right now because you've seen a lot of change.

You've been in the market now for a number of years.

>> 30, 35.

>> I wasn't going to say that.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> I'm old.

No.

Go ahead.

Nobody said old.

>> If you started here in the early 90s.

And the average age of a first time homebuyer was 28 years old, right?

That's a huge.

You're at a very different point in your life when you're in your mid to late 20s, compared to when you're almost 40 years old.

And that to me is a massive difference.

That is revelatory more than any other data that you bring today, Mark.

That was the one that I went, oh, my gosh.

>> Well, think about it in these terms.

38 years old, you buy your first house.

It's a 30 year mortgage.

You're paying it off at the age of 68.

I'm, I'm I'm incredibly fortunate.

Malcolm Gladwell always talks about the time that one, the year in which one is born is, is a great predictor of how successful one is going to be.

You don't want to be born, those who are born in 1898.

Not a great year to be born.

Why?

Because you're just coming of age when you're being drafted into the First World War, then you survive, and all of a sudden you're having to deal with the pandemic, the Spanish flu.

You survive that and you're just starting to make a little bit of money, and then you've got the Great Depression.

>> Great.

>> Terrible time.

I happen to be born in 1965, a great time to be born for a million different reasons.

I bought my first house at the age of 25, and it was a multifamily.

And I come from very, very modest.

I was born and raised in a 900 square foot ranch.

we ate dirt.

but I happened to be fortunate in that I was born in the United States of America in the year 1965, when I was able to purchase my first property.

Age of 25.

It was a multi.

Bought a second, a third, a fourth.

And now I've got a portfolio of rental properties that is going to allow me to enjoy a very, very comfortable retirement in a few years time.

Let's fast forward to somebody born in the year 1995.

Dear God.

I mean, think about being strapped with student loan debt.

Think about and we're off topic here, but think about the impact of social media.

Think about social unrest as we're experiencing a.

>> Pandemic.

>> The pandemic?

Exactly.

suicidal ideation.

all of this.

And then you're working really hard and you're trying desperately to buy your first house, and you realize, oh, my God, I'm not going to be able to live the dream that my parents had told me about as I was growing up.

It's it's incredibly tragic.

And then that leads to and again, it's not for this program, but that leads to a lot of dissatisfaction on the part of younger Americans, which leads to social unrest, which take it from there.

>> And so.

>> If the state of the market today, I take your point that the Gladwell point is a really interesting one, because when you contextualize what people grow up through, are you living through a draft, a war, a depression, a market crash, you know, any of these major worldwide events?

Or do you have a relatively a relatively clean and peaceful window into adulthood that will affect a lot of people's ability to prosper, to buy homes?

I take that point, but it's also, as you point out, coupled with the state of our market, which seems, I'm going to say unique, I'm sure there's housing markets across the country where inventory is low.

It's hard to find, you know, new builds, et cetera.

but we seem.

I mean, do you ever talk to your colleagues in other cities and states where it's like it's maybe not as tight as in inventory as it is here?

>> I don't I just read a lot and and actually, the market has changed pretty significantly over the course of the past year.

80% of the country right now is a buyer's market, believe it or not, because and think about post pandemic.

Think about Cape Coral, Florida.

Think about Austin, Texas.

Think about all these places where people were fleeing to, and all of a sudden the builders are just one house after another after another, after they overbuilt.

And so now there's and so and fast forward to the year 2024, four years after the pandemic, 2025, five years after the pandemic, and you're suddenly seeing now, men and women fleeing and moving and the statistics are they're they're moving from Florida.

They're moving to the Carolinas.

They're moving to Georgia because of weather, because of, insurance.

You can't get insurance, right?

You can't.

So these are these are places in the country right now where there are more homes available for sale than there are buyers interested and willing to purchase.

So we're the northeast is a bit of an anomaly right now.

>> What an interesting change.

And I and I feel like the one part of the equation in Rochester and I say Rochester, I mean the greater Rochester market.

The one part of the equation that maybe I don't focus enough on when we talk about this, we talk about like, well, it's easier if you're a seller than a buyer, but if you're a seller, aren't you also usually a buyer?

I mean, like if you want to sell a home and let's say you purchased a home for $100,000 and today you can get three and you go, wow, what a great return.

But where are you going?

Right, right.

You still have to land somewhere.

>> Yes.

>> And if if you don't want to be lateral or, quote, unquote, move up in the market, that's one thing.

But most people aren't in that category.

So just because you're a seller, you're also typically a buyer, aren't you?

And that's hard.

>> For you.

>> It's very, very tough.

so 15 years ago, 2500 homes, single family homes on the market for sale in the six county region.

Right now, there are about 750.

So.

So you're shy, 750 homes.

and so it creates all sorts of problems.

your a young couple, you were married seven years ago.

You bought a 1500 square foot house, and you suddenly have three kids.

Where the hell are you going?

There's no property for you to purchase.

You're suddenly.

You're now 68 years old.

The kids have all gone off to college.

You're sitting in a 4500 square foot house.

You need to downsize to something.

That's one story.

That's perhaps more modest.

2000ft.

Where are you going?

So?

So people are locked in, for those reasons.

They're locked in because of interest rates.

you know, all sorts of things.

>> Interest rates coming up here.

But for that example in Brighton where you talk about a home that was listed last week at 425,000, it sells five days later for 675.

Do you think making that 675 offer is out of line for those buyers?

Or is that is that just a value choice that they're making?

>> Yeah.

I talk to clients a lot about decisions that they need to make.

What portion of this purchase is strictly, absolutely financial?

And what portion of this is a lifestyle choice?

so you can buy a Hyundai, you can buy a Lamborghini.

and so this is somebody who really, really want, I mean, what's also crazy, there were 16 offers on the property.

I'm not sure if I mentioned that 16.

>> And I'm sure most of them were over asking.

>> Oh, yes.

>> Yeah, yeah.

yeah.

No, that is an anomaly in this market in that the market has started to change over the course of the past 3 or 4 months since what did he call it, independence Day or Liberation Day or whatever the hell it was?

Yeah.

Liberation day?

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

So, so from that day moving forward, things have started to change here in Rochester.

And the story that I cite is a bit of an anomaly.

you are starting to see properties here in Rochester sitting on the market for a longer period of time.

offers that are tendered.

there might be 2 or 3 offers, not 16. the number of the amount above, above the list price that properties are selling, that's come down significantly.

So things are getting easier for buyers.

But every once in a.

>> While, that's relative.

That relative.

>> To what it's been.

>> For years, right?

>> Yes.

>> It's still hard for buyers.

>> Thank you.

That's exactly where I was headed.

Absolutely.

>> okay.

Yeah.

>> So at least the trend is moderating a little, right?

>> okay.

>> Marcus in Rochester on the phone first, and then we'll take some of your emails.

Hey, Marcus, go ahead.

>> yeah, I just was listening, and your guest was talking about some of the challenges in purchasing a home, but then also in his bio mentioned owning several rental properties, and it just strikes me as that's part of the challenge.

And the problem or Americans going for comfort and riches, when that means that the basic family can't buy, a young family can't buy their first home.

So I'm just trying to untangle that contradiction.

>> No, I.

>> Hear you, Marcus.

I mean, I think part of what Mark is saying is he did not come from a wealthy background, and he worked his way up at a time where someone from his background could more easily, through hard work, buy a first home in your 20s, start to acquire property and think about using that as a way of retiring comfortably.

And he's lamenting the fact that things have.

>> Changed.

>> Lamenting.

I mean, I want more success stories like myself.

What what's going on here?

The bifurcation, the demographic demographic bifurcation that's taking place is sinful.

I really, honestly believe that it's sinful.

we need more people having, being able to enjoy the same opportunities that I enjoyed.

>> Do you do you feel any sort of.

I mean, Marcus is sort of implying that.

I mean, there should be some sort of feeling of sheepishness or guilt on your part for for the success that you have right now.

>> Marcus, if you if you would have seen me through the years, you know, 60, 65 hour weeks, rolling up my sleeves, you know, painting, sawing, just doing all this stuff.

I mean, yeah,, sorry.

you know, I worked very, very, very hard.

That being said, I I wish that others had the same privilege to be able to work as hard as I did.

And that's been taken from a lot of people.

so.

>> 844295 talk, if you want to call the program toll free.

8442958255263 WXXI.

If you call from Rochester 2639994 email the program Connections at wxxi.org.

Join the chat if you're watching on the YouTube channel on WXXI News.

Mark Siwiec is broker and owner of Elysian Homes by Mark Siwiec and Associates.

And a few weeks ago put out just a short video on social that I saw just talking about, in his view, A Tale of Two.

Rochester's in the current market, the luxury market doing great, 86 homes, over $1 million sold in the last year in in Rochester and the greater Rochester.

>> Market.

>> I think I'm not I'm not quite sure I'd have to.

>> Look back.

>> Essentially locally, it's it's like a 30% increase in million dollar plus homes in just a year.

But still a lot of struggle for people in on the other end of the market.

Judy writes, to say, could there be a housing glut when the baby boomers start selling their houses?

Rent is too expensive, so most people stay put until they can't care for their property any longer.

I'm looking to sell in about eight years when I'll be 80 years old.

Until then, I'll keep gardening, shoveling, et cetera.

as long as I'm physically able.

That's what I saw last fall.

Gray haired people raking the lawn.

>> Yeah.

>> That's from Judy.

What do.

>> You think, Judy?

>> You know, I'll go back to the statistic that I cited a short while ago.

we're shy, 18,000, new homes, newly constructed homes.

I don't see 18,000 new homes being built in the next five years.

I mean, perhaps a thousand new homes.

Let's be crazy.

Say, 2500 new homes every year for the next 6 or 7 years.

That gets us to where we need to be.

But that doesn't even take into consideration the growing need.

So, Judy, I think that you're going to be just fine.

Now there's a corollary to that in that I don't think that we're going to be seeing the 12%, 14% increase in the value of property, year in and year out over these next few years that we saw, since the, since the pandemic, and just as an aside, nearly 65% increase, 64.2% increase in the value of property here in Monroe County since March of 20 25.5 years, 64%.

That's insane.

>> That's that's a lot.

and on that note, Oria writes, Aria writes to say, all of my friends are 30 to 35 years old, and every one of them had to create an Excel sheet with the open houses they went to.

Most had a minimum of 50 people on their list.

They put offers in, and almost all of the offers they put in were disregarded because people were coming in with offers of 80,000 over asking price.

A lot of them being cash down payments.

It took most of my friends two years to find and buy a first home.

That's from Aria.

>> Yeah.

very, very difficult.

You know that story we've heard over and over again?

part of it, and I'm not suggesting this is a good thing, but part of it is we had clients five years ago saying, nope, I'm not writing an offer.

I'm not coming in $80,000 over asking.

four years ago, we had these same people saying the exact same thing.

Three years ago, same thing.

And we just kept trying to coach them as, you know, not push them, but coach them benevolently to say you're missing out on an incredible opportunity.

So those who needed a couple of years to actually realize that this wasn't going to end, they missed out on that historic increase in the value of property.

So the good news, though, and this is, you know, this goes back to the newsletter.

Now is a good time.

interest rates have come down significantly over the course of the past few months.

the number of buyers who are competing or engaging in bidding wars right now has come down pretty dramatically.

So that which buyers have been hoping for just a little bit more of an opportunity to purchase.

that moment is now sadly and unfortunately, so, so many people are flipped out by what's playing out both nationally and internationally, that they're on the sidelines.

But now, now is the time to do it.

>> All right, let me get back to your phone calls.

Dina in Rochester next.

Hello, Dina.

Go ahead.

>> Hi, guys.

Hey, Mark.

How are you?

It's d. >> I know who exactly who it is.

Dina.

Kriegstein.

How you doing?

>> No, it's Dina.

Will you help me buy my house in Oakland Street.?

>> Little.

My apologies.

Yes.

How are the.

How are you?

>> I'm good.

I called in just to say Merck helped me buy my first house in 2002.

On the South Wedge neighborhood, and I paid 37 five for it.

And with Mark's help and I at the time, I only made $10 an hour, so.

And at that time, there was probably like five houses on the street up for sale.

times have changed, and it's it's too bad to say how much the houses are going for around here, because there's a lot of, low income people and a lot of seniors around here that really can barely afford the taxes.

I love my neighborhood, but I don't think it's worth the prices that's going up to.

>> Yeah, I mean, so 2000, you're in the South, would you say, Dina?

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> So I'm doing my best on short notice here to find an inflation calculator.

So you made $10 an hour in 2002. okay.

I'm.

I'm wondering now I'm in a moment.

I'm going to tell you exactly what that translates to today.

1824.

So can someone making $18.24 an hour buy a house on your street right now?

>> No way.

I couldn't buy a house on my street right now.

And I finally make $20 after 34 years at a certain job.

Yep, yep.

>> I mean, that's one of the big difference here that Dina is talking about is the the range of people who are priced in or priced out of a market.

And, Dina, I hope you're doing well.

I hope it was a good experience in 2002, but.

>> Oh, wonderful.

>> and so there you go.

Thank you, Dina, for the phone call.

Nice endorsement of Mark, but wow.

I mean, so she makes $10 an hour 23 years ago.

That's 18 bucks an hour now, you know anybody?

18 bucks an hour buying a house in the South wedge?

The south wedge is still a very hot place to.

>> Buy, right?

>> It is so.

So any number of things.

First of all, Dina, I know you're listening.

Thanks so much for for reaching out.

You're a sweetheart.

There's a woman who has an enormous heart and she takes care of animals, dogs left and right.

The house is filled with with all sorts of critters.

and she's a good woman.

And she is the type of person who should today still be able to purchase property.

she's, as I said, great heart, hard working, contributes to our community.

We need more.

Dina's being able to purchase property today, but making $18 an hour, there's just no way she is part of that graduating class.

One of the one of the last periods of time when it is somebody making $10 an hour could actually purchase.

We just don't see that any longer.

Instead, we're seeing we're seeing more and more individuals who have the privilege of turning to mom and dad and saying, hey, can you help me?

cosign.

Can you help me with a down payment?

I didn't have the privilege.

Dina didn't have the privilege.

We were both fortunate.

Back to Malcolm Gladwell.

Having been born at a point in time when we could still do it.

One of the last, periods of time that that somebody from modest means could actually purchase.

>> Don't say last.

>> I was going.

>> To say, but still got to hope for the future here, Mark.

>> But but that's exactly where I was headed.

Which is,.

And hopefully we're going to.

That's exactly where I was heading.

Evan was hopefully that's going to change.

It has to.

>> I don't think it's sustainable where we're going right now.

And I know you feel that way.

>> Absolutely.

I mean, it's shocking that more people haven't actually grabbed a pitchfork and a torch, you know, in some ways.

Well, in some ways I guess they have, but maybe not.

Yeah.

>> I mean, not literally, but close.

Right?

So after we take our only break, I've got more of your emails to share with Mark Siwiec, broker and owner of Elysian Homes by Mark Siwiec and Associates.

We're talking about the state of the housing market.

and I know if there's a lot of frustration out there, this is a good chance to sort of air it and we'll talk through where we are and where this goes.

And we'll also talk about if interest rates come down further, what does that mean?

So there's certain things on the horizon that could happen a lot more with Mark coming up on Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Thursday on the next Connections.

There's been a lot of talk about how the Trump administration has been trying to bypass the judiciary.

We're going to talk to retired judges, Republican and Democrat, about what they see happening in the country today, what's happening in the judiciary and what happens next.

Then in our second hour, we continue our focus on HBCUs this week and the legacy and the impact of historically black colleges and universities.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Bob Johnson Auto Group.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Barb in Monroe County says just last night I was out at a restaurant and one of the servers there was talking about this exact topic, how he's been trying to find a home to buy.

He was approved for a $150,000 mortgage, but he said generally that is not enough to purchase a home in most areas.

Now he works two jobs.

He lives with his parents.

He said he may have to stay with them for several more years because there isn't enough affordable starter homes for first time buyers.

That isn't a total fixer upper.

>> Absolutely.

>> That's from Barb.

She's right.

>> She's she's absolutely right.

And this poor server.

So he's going to stay with his parents.

He's going to continue to save money.

What wins out the increase in the value of the property that he's hoping to purchase, or his ability to put money into his pocket to come up with a greater down payment?

I'm fearful that it may be the former, not the latter.

>> So if you get approved for $150,000, I mean, 20 years ago, you could get a lot in this market.

Yes, ten years ago, pretty good.

>> Today I most agents that I speak to think that a starter home at this point in time in Monroe county is $250,000.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

>> Oh my gosh.

well, let's get back to your phone calls.

Pat in Ithaca.

Hey, Pat.

Go ahead.

>> Hey I'm former lifelong Rochester resident.

I love old homes.

So as a side I lived in a small village called Montour Falls.

They had four abandoned houses.

>> Just south.

>> Of Watkins Glen.

Yep yep, yep.

And I fixed them up just because I love older homes.

Two people I knew very well.

One was my.

Actually my insurance agent, and another was someone who was disabled and had very.

But here's what I did.

I took my 401(k) money.

Some of it bought the homes very, very inexpensively because I fixed them up and I'm doing a rent to own now.

Most rent to owns are scams, but I think a possible solution is is to make the laws so they aren't scams and make the tax code.

So it's good for people to do that.

So basically I sponsored two people.

one is getting her home in eight years and another in 12 years.

I don't mind doing it.

I'm making 4%.

But because of the laws, the money they're giving me, I get taxed on it.

So I'm getting taxed on my own money.

If they changed it, I think you would find people with, you know, reasonable 401(k)'s willing to sponsor somebody into buying a home.

>> So, Pat, first of all, it sounds like you're not only doing good for your community, but you're doing well for yourself.

But let me.

Yes.

And I appreciate the point about the tax laws when you say that most rent to owns are scams, what exactly do you mean, Pat?

>> Well, I think the the renter themselves, you know, it's it's we wrote up a contract as best we could with my lawyer, but there's a lot of rent to owns that it's very hard for the person to pay it off without something happening.

Like I have it in my will that if I were to die, that would continue, and my family would get, you know, the rent until the such and such a date.

And then they have to close and give the deed to the to the owner.

>> Yeah.

>> You got to be very you got to be very, very careful.

Now, I was pretty ignorant on the tax laws.

I might have done it differently and actually done a formal mortgage, but I don't even know if I would have been allowed to do that.

>> Pat, thank you very much for the call.

Mark, what do you want to add there?

>> it's very I've been doing this for 35 years.

I've never, never once heard of anybody to do a rent to own.

so I love that she's doing that.

I think that most landlords are would be reluctant in doing so because there are so many risks for the landlord as there are risks for the for the tenants themselves.

I just, I go back to we just need we just need our legislators to step up and create an environment in which people will be able to purchase their own home.

>> Yeah.

I mean, so just on the subject that Pat's talking about, I understand that that frustration with the tax laws, you're getting taxed on your own money there.

Yeah.

And you feel like you're kind of it's like an extra hit.

And that to me seems like it would be an easy fix.

I guess.

Anything else that you would change if I gave you the legal pen to change all the laws?

Mark Siwiec anything that you want to do right now?

>> yes.

I would, I would create incentive for builders to be when somebody is building when, when, when a builder is constructing a new property here in Rochester it costs $75,000 just to prepare the lot because there is so much red tape associated with curbing.

Not everybody needs curbs.

associated with the size of the lot.

associated with the kind of utilities that one needs, et cetera.

I would just do away with so much of that red tape and just make it more just that.

Let's just start right there.

Let's make it more affordable in that way.

>> Make it more affordable to build, because builders if you're priced out, if a builder feels like I'm not going to build a 1200 square foot house because no one can afford it based on what I have to pay to build it.

We're not getting new builds, right?

okay.

>> And this and this benefits everybody.

I mean, it makes for stronger communities.

I mean, it increases the tax base in Penfield, in Fairport.

And so that means better schools.

I mean, everybody benefits.

>> I am trying to keep up with the email.

Pat in Ithaca, thank you for the phone call.

Listening on WEOS Finger Lakes Public Radio.

Great to have that partnership with WEOS throughout the region, Alexander says.

Evan, my question for your guest is how much of this is caused by large corporations buying homes to rent out, whether to long term tenants short term, like Airbnb, or to flip, et cetera.

maybe not as much in Rochester as tourist destinations, but presumably not none.

What do you think?

>> I can only speak to what's going on here, and we just don't see these large corporations coming in and purchasing up swaths of real estate.

which is unfortunate, because I think it says something about large corporations and how it is that they view the future of the Rochester region.

it does happen elsewhere, but I don't think that it's I think really it is just not having enough, enough real estate for people to buy.

>> okay.

Mark emails to say different Mark, not Mark Siwiec.

Mark says we are new homeowners for almost a year now, but it was a long road to get here.

It took us a year plus to find our North Winton village home.

We have a middle class combined income about $160,000, but we were constantly outbid.

I feel most people in our price bracket have to rely on a good realtor tenacity and pure luck.

Like us, we were lucky enough to find a solid house on a big corner lot with a mortgage about $100 less than our rent.

That's from Mark.

Yeah, but he's saying pretty lucky to feel like they got what they got.

>> so any number of things.

First of all, congratulations, Mark.

Sure.

and yeah, North Winton Village, great neighborhood.

I mean, I remember a point in time when you could buy in that neighborhood for 85,000 $110,000.

now it's $250,000.

Neighborhood.

I think, and I'm reading in between the lines here, but I think that he did have a good agent, because you can really stack the deck in your favor by having a good real estate agent.

It's real estate.

The industry is one of the more poorly regulated, you know, fogless mirror.

You know, you got a great, terrific.

Here's your license.

but somebody who really knows what they're doing, and has a great relationship with their colleagues.

That and can help a buyer navigate our buyers traditionally are purchasing within three months of of of starting the process.

It's usually not a two year process.

so a lot of it does have to do with choosing the best professional that you can.

Who's an expert in the neighborhood you wanted to purchase?

who with whom?

You seem to have a personal relationship.

So.

>> So, Mark the emailer again, congratulations to you.

Great neighborhood, very hot neighborhood.

North Winton, right?

>> Yep, yep.

Absolutely.

>> People love North Winton.

Yeah.

Chris wants to know, maybe not corporations from out of state, but is it people from out of state coming in and buying a lot of properties here?

>> No.

>> Not necessarily.

>> it happens, but not to the degree that it used to.

we would there was a point in time when Kodak, Xerox, Bausch and Lomb, all these large organizations would be bringing people in all the time.

you know, that's that's diminished fairly significantly.

it's u of r rit who are bringing people in in large numbers, but not to the degree that we used to see.

>> Michelle writes to say, I read an article about a company which builds affordable homes.

They are not fabricated homes.

He saves money by only building rectangular or square homes.

His business has expanded to quite a few states, but not New York.

Do you know any builders that are doing something similar in the Rochester area, which is not prefabricated homes?

>> I do not know of anybody who's doing that type of, and in part it's just it comes down to economics.

there is no incentive locally for a builder to build a 1500 square foot house.

They're not making any money.

They want to build a 3500 square foot house.

They want to build a 4000 square foot house.

Why?

Because they'll be able to.

Because the economy of scales.

But those individuals then are then lining countertops in granite and beautiful hardwood floors and beautiful moldings.

And that's, that's where they're making their profit.

but again, there's just very, very little money.

And I know I'm repeating myself, this goes back to the need for governmental intervention, because the builders have no interest in building a 1500 square foot house.

>> So one piece of intervention that could happen is we could see another rate cut from the fed.

this fall.

And if we see a rate cut, what?

What?

Take us through.

What could be on the horizon?

Mark.

>> so what's really interesting is that the rate cuts have already started.

So currently you can secure a 30 year mortgage at 6.29%.

That is an incredible drop from the 7.98% that you were seeing earlier this year.

One and three quarter percent, you know, off the top of my head, you're buying a first time property, $250,000.

That point and a half is going to save you a point.

And three quarters, I should say, is going to save you.

$3,700 per year, $4,000 per year.

I don't have a calculator in front of me.

>> But it's hundreds of dollars a month.

>> 300 some some dollars per month.

So.

So now is a great time.

the FOMC, the Federal Open Market Committee is meeting next week.

It's an arm of the Federal Reserve.

and they will more likely than not be lowering the federal funds rate.

A lot of a lot of everybody's anticipating okay, great.

When they do.

So rates will drop further.

That's not necessarily the case.

Rates drop usually in anticipation of what it is that the the Federal Reserve is going to be doing.

So that's why you've seen such a decrease over the course of the past month, in particular.

So.

>> so the current rate is six.

What is.

>> It, 6.29629.

>> What's the lowest you've seen in your career in this market?

>> Oh my God.

>> It was like 20 years ago.

Maybe.

>> 15.

No it was, it was during the recession.

you know, two I'm sorry, not the recession.

The pandemic.

>> 2.00 during the.

okay.

>> Yeah.

2.85%, 3%, three and a quarter percent.

And so that's.

>> 20 years ago was down around four, I think.

>> Right.

Yeah.

>> And that's very low.

>> Yeah.

I mean and so part of the problem that we're experiencing now is everybody is aware you are locked in at a 3% interest rate, 3.25%.

You're not interested in selling your house and trading it in for an interest rate of 6.25%.

>> Even if you feel like you can get a good return, you're looking at a very different monthly number because of that interest rate.

>> Yeah, you really are.

But again, those those individuals who are making the move are those who more likely than not because of personal circumstances, the size of the family has grown, the size of the family has diminished, et cetera.

those are the people.

>> Back to your email.

Jane says, Evan, I'm 47 and I've been unable to afford my first home.

The problem for me is the down payment.

I just don't have enough money saved due to multiple reasons, including prior student loan debt, which is now finally paid off.

I like the apartment I'm in, but the rent is exorbitant and the owners are greedy.

My rent went up $235 a month last year, a 21% monthly increase, and I have no recourse unless or until I can find another apartment.

But who knows how much rent will increase there, or if I find a better salary.

But I'm not one of those job hoppers.

Something has to give in the housing and the rental market.

>> Yep.

Yeah.

I mean, I can repeat myself, but I think this has been, you know, just the recurrent chorus over the course of the past 45 minutes.

and I genuinely am just very, very sorry for her plight.

She should own her own house.

>> 47 years old.

47 years old, working in the same job for a long time.

You're saying if we've got a better structured society, that's someone who can buy a house?

>> Yeah.

I mean, this is the United States of America.

People have been told since the day they were born.

Roll up your sleeves, work hard, and you will be rewarded.

And when that promise is turned on its head, it leads to anarchy.

>> Patrick says prefab is good these days.

He says prefabricated houses aren't the same as they were from the 70s and 80s.

They're actually nice these days.

And if that's what it takes to get more fairly priced houses, great.

What do you think, Mark?

>> yes, absolutely.

still, the economy you've got so much more at play here.

you've got the Nimby, Nimby ism that we discussed earlier.

You know, the inability to get these things approved.

at at town boards you've got the cost associated with just buying the lot and then preparing the lot and the red tape associated with all these.

>> So even prefab.

So.

>> Yeah, even even prefabs.

So I think it's part of the equation.

>> But it's not like the panacea.

>> It's not the panacea.

I.

>> Email from drew says Evan, I've heard you say that having a child is an act of optimism.

I have said that he says, well, buying a house is an act of optimism, too, I can tell you that even for people who have decent jobs today, buying a house is a 30 year commitment.

How many people feel like their careers are going to be solid for 30 years?

Yeah, that's from drew.

>> Yeah.

You know, I mean, we can take that and we can talk about that in any number of different ways.

I mean, A.I.

is a disruptor, obviously.

That's, you know churning so many jobs on its head.

I think at least from my perspective yes, it is optimism.

but I'm going off topic here, but I do think that there is whether it was late 1800s or whether it's the year 2025 there is always technology that is going to be disrupting, jobs and one's ability to function.

And, and derive a decent income as a result.

So you got to keep up with the change.

You've got to continue to educate yourself.

>> Do you feel like as a real estate broker, you're also partly like an armchair psychologist?

>> For 30% of my time is.

Yeah.

I mean, I had a client two days ago and yesterday.

Sweet woman.

I've known for 25, 30 years.

I love this woman.

she cried at least 4 or 5 times in a two day period.

absolutely love this woman.

You know, so, so thrilled to be able to.

>> Move to tears.

About what?

>> I'd rather not get into her situation, but it was very, very personal.

you know, loss that she's experienced in her life, that kind of thing.

but yes, I mean, a full, a full 30% of my time.

Plenty of time.

>> Yeah.

email from J. J says, Evan.

So where are the accessible parts of our market?

Please don't say Pittsford.

Please don't say the south wedge.

Where can I go to get a decent house for my money?

Many of us feel trapped.

That's from Jay.

>> Jay.

Sorry, bud.

yeah.

>> You're not going to say Pittsford.

I mean.

>> No, no.

God, no.

>> That's not the accessible part.

>> Of the market.

No., I, I had some correspondence with with a friend of mine in Buffalo, 3 or 4 months ago.

honestly, I think part of what needs to happen, and this is there are so many empty structures in downtown Rochester.

I would love to see my good friend.

I love Adam Bello, I, you know, I was his finance chair.

I mean, I love this guy.

This is not a criticism of Adam, but I would love to see Adam and the mayor and our state legislators come together and create a master plan so that all these structures that are just sitting empty in downtown Rochester are more easily converted to residential structures, and you're solving several problems right there.

I mean, you're doing away with crime because you're going to have owner occupied structures.

You're, you're satisfying the needs of the prospective buyers who are desperate to purchase you're suddenly creating dry cleaners and convenience stores and and helping entrepreneurs, small entrepreneurs to build.

So that's part of what I'd love to see.

>> Happen.

Yeah.

I, you know, it's interesting, Mark, because obviously Rochester is like, this is where Rochester is like the rest of the country.

Every city has hollowed out offices and buildings, and it's a huge problem.

It's a huge problem.

I realize in talking to people over the years, sometimes from government, sometimes in the private sector, that simply wanting to convert one structure into housing isn't always easy.

There are certain things that make certain properties more suitable for that.

But I think about what Astro Teller said on this program.

He is the head of moonshots at at Google.

Google X, and basically he works with a team of scientists and they try to figure out big societal problems, and their mandate is don't come in here with all the reasons we can't come in here with the reasons that people say you can't and then start figuring out workarounds for why you can't understand why people will say, we can't do this, whether it's curing a disease or solving huge, huge, huge problems.

But then take all the reasons.

Traditionally we say you can't and then figure out the why.

We can.

And it isn't always possible.

But he says, like the mindset has to be, I'm not just going to hear the well, it's going to be hard.

I understand.

I'm I'm not the working one working in government, Mark.

I don't work for the administration.

I don't work for the city.

I don't work in, in in real estate.

I think it's easy for me to look at Kodak and to look downtown to all of these hollowed out offices in Rochester or in Geneva or anywhere else, and go.

That's a shame.

That should be something.

Maybe it could be great housing, and I'm sure someone will tell me, look, this is why it's not a good fit.

But at some point there has to be a determination that it can't just be nothing and we can't have these hollowed out spaces everywhere we go here.

and there has to be some kind of a determination to make them something, I don't.

>> Know, it's it's not going to be easy.

No, it's not, but but what what.

>> Easy for me to say.

>> But, but but what's what's the alternative?

You know, I mean, a downtown that is not vibrant.

A downtown in which people are reluctant to go down there to have a great meal to take in the arts.

meanwhile, you've got thousands of people who are desperate for housing it just it just seems like, again, not easy, but it's a no brainer.

You've got desire and you've got you've got, the opportunity.

So.

>> Well, I know, again, easy for me to say.

I appreciate all the people working on that problem.

Let's have a conversation on Connections about what we do with some of these hollowed out spaces, because it's a problem everywhere.

I'll close with this email.

John says, Evan and Mark, great show.

Please address the following regarding the lack of affordable housing.

Monroe County loses approximately 5% of farmland per year.

How can an urban suburban sprawl be managed in a solution?

Can government legislation assist in redirecting prefab and construction development within the city and just outside city limits?

Thank you.

PS we were able to buy our first home in 1984 at 24 years of age.

Our second home in 2002 at 42 years of age.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah, John, that used to be the story.

>> Yeah, that's my story.

That's that's.

Yeah.

John, we're lucky guys.

>> That's what Mark Siwiec is lamenting this hour.

>> Yes.

We are very lucky guys.

John, you know, I know I keep repeating myself, and I apologize, but.

But one more time.

Yes.

We cannot do this.

We cannot make the change that that I've been advocating.

The change that so many people are desperate to enjoy.

Unless we have governmental intervention and that means, in part taking blighted neighborhoods and making them or taking downtown Rochester, you know, so much of what you're talking about, urban sprawl.

let's redirect some of that desire on the part of prospective buyers and direct it into downtown Rochester.

Let's direct it into neighborhoods that are, you know, that are blighted, whether it's the city of Rochester or one of the surrounding towns.

but we can't do this with without our city fathers convening groups of people who are experts in this area.

>> I'll try to squeeze in one more question.

okay.

Joel says, I honestly think everyone should build an Adu on their properties, and that the city should provide building plans for free as part of a streamlined building process.

What do you think?

>> I do think that it's helpful.

I do, but I think it's more of a short term solution.

the city of Rochester throughout the 80s was offering grant money to individuals so that they would convert their two family into single family homes.

So, I mean, I do think it's a solution, but I do think it's a shorter term solution.

I think that coupled with a longer term answer to the problems that we have.

I think that's that's really the key to success.

>> Mark, if you're just joining us as we wrap the hour, Mark has put this not in just a marketing term, but almost in moral terms.

That's how Mark Siwiec sees it.

As someone who has been able to work hard and have this successful career and, and buy a home at an earlier age than people mostly are able to do today, he sees there's a moral crisis for this country.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens if if people want to grab your newsletter, can they do that?

Mark, how do they sign up?

>> Yeah.

Sure thing.

I mean, I'll just.

You can call me 3308750 or just, Mark Siwiec.

Com Mark Siwiec.

I see a lot of this is in my monthly blog.

>> Mark Siwiec is a broker and owner of Elysian Homes by Mark Siwiec and Associates.

Nice to see you.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thanks so much for having me, bud.

>> And we've got more Connections tomorrow.

Until then, thank you for listening.

Thank you for watching on the WXXI News YouTube.

We've got a whole team of people who are putting this wonderful program together.

I'm the only I'm only the voice.

But what a great team.

So from all of us, thank you for being with us.

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