>>> A YEAR OF COVID.

HOW IT'S SHAPED OHIO.

>>> A YEAR OF COVID, HOW IT SHAPED OHIO, AND WHAT'S TO COME.

CAPTIONS PROVIDED BY WOSU-TV, THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY >>> JOINING US ON "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD," HERB ASHER, MIKE GONIDAKIS, AND JACKIE BORCHARDT.

IT'S HARD TO MARK THE EXACT START OF THE COVID PANDEMIC IN OHIO WHEN LIFE REALLY STARTED TO CHANGE.

THE SHUTDOWNS REALLY BEGAN WITH THE CLOSURE OF THE ARNOLD FESTIVAL ON MARCH 3, THEN OTHER MASS GATHERINGS, THEN THE CLOSING OF SCHOOLS.

THIS WAS GOVERNOR DeWINE'S NEWS CONFERENCE EXACTLY ONE YEAR AGO TODAY AS HE AND HIS HEALTH DIRECTOR TRIED TO FLATTEN THE CURVE.

>> SLOWING IT DOWN WILL ENABLE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS OR HOSPITALS OR DOCTORS TO BE ABLE TO STAY UP WITH THE MEDICAL PROBLEMS THAT THIS VIRUS IS CAUSING AS WELL AS TO STAY UP WITH PEOPLE'S NORMAL HEART PROBLEMS, MANY OTHER PROBLEMS THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE.

WE DO NOT WANT TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE MEDICAL PROVIDERS ARE MAKING LIFE AND DEATH DECISIONS OF WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES.

>> AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'RE IN A CRISIS SITUATION NOW.

WE'RE MOVING QUICKLY, TAKING DECISIVE ACTION NOW WILL GREATLY SLOW DOWN THIS DISEASE AND STOP THE TRAJECTORY.

OUR CHIEF ESTIMATES FOR MODELING SAY THIS MIGHT PEAK IN LATE APRIL TO MID-MAY.

>> THE GOOD NEWS, DOCTORS NEVER HAD TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

THE BAD NEWS, THE PEAK THE DOCTOR PREDICTED WAS A SMALL FOOTHILL COMPARED TO WHAT WAS TO COME IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER.

JACKIE BORCHARDT, LOOKING BACK AT THAT IMAGE, NO MASKS, ALL STANDING CLOSE TO EACH OTHER IN THE SAME ROOM, IT'S AMAZING HOW MUCH LIFE HAS CHANGED.

>> IF YOU HAD PANNED OUT WIDER THAN THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE CAUGHT THE BACK OF MY HEAD.

IT'S WEIRD TO WATCH THAT A YEAR LATER, CONSIDERING WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE CORONAVIRUS.

SECOND WEEK OF MARCH WERE BASED OFF OF DATA WE WERE GETTING FROM CHINA, A LITTLE BIT OF DATA WE WERE GETTING FROM ITALY, SOME ESTIMATES OF HOW CONTAGIOUS IT MIGHT BE, AND HOW IT MIGHT SPREAD.

AND A LOT OF THOSE THINGS, WE DIDN'T HAVE MASKS BECAUSE AT THE TIME, THE OFFICIAL LINE WAS WE NEED TO PRESERVE ALL THE PPE FOR THE HEALTH CARE WORKERS.

SO MASKS WEREN'T PART OF THE EQUATION FOR SEVERAL WEEKS.

AND THAT WAS WELL BEFORE THE MASK MANDATE IN OHIO.

WATCHING THAT VIDEO IS LIKE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TIME THAN THE ONE WE LIVE IN NOW.

>> MIKE GONIDAKIS, HOW DO YOU LOOK BACK AT THIS AND THE PROJECTIONS THAT WERE THERE?

WE DIDN'T KNOW A LOT THEN, WE STILL DON'T KNOW A LOT, BUT WE CERTAINLY KNOW MORE THAN WE DID THEN.

HOW DO YOU LOOK BACK ON LAST MARCH?

>> I GIVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CREDIT TO THE GOVERNOR AND TO THE PEOPLE SURROUNDING HIM AS IT RELATES TO WHAT WE DID IN MARCH, APRIL, AND MAY.

HECK, I REMEMBER THEY TOLD US TO WEAR SURGICAL GLOVES TO THE GROCERY STORE, NOT MASKS.

THAT'S WHAT WE DID, WE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE SAFE, RIGHT?

WE'VE COME A LONG WAY.

SINCE THAT TIME, AS WE EVOLVED, AS WE LEARNED MORE, WE SAW WHAT OTHER STATES AND GOVERNMENTS WERE DOING, I'M NOT SURE HOW OHIO KEPT UP WITH OTHER STATES, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I THINK A MAXIMUM NUMBER OF LIVES WERE SAVED AND THAT'S A GOOD THING.

>> HERB ASHER, YOU LOOK BACK AT THE SHUTDOWN ORDERS, OHIO, WE SHUT DOWN A LOT, MOST STATES SHUT DOWN A LOT, CERTAINLY IN APRIL.

WE WEREN'T COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN.

HOW DO YOU THINK WE'LL LOOK BACK AT THOSE SHUTDOWN ORDERS?

>> I THINK WE'LL LOOK BACK AND SAY WE DID THE BEST WE COULD WITH THE INFORMATION WE HAD AT THE TIME.

I THINK WE'LL ALSO SAY THAT IN A NUMBER OF STATES, GOVERNORS ACTUALLY WERE MORE PROACTIVE THAN THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

THEY TOOK IT ACTUALLY MORE SERIOUSLY.

BUT THEY WERE ALSO OPERATING WITH INCOMPLETE OPERATION AND WERE ALSO OPERATING IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE SOME OF THE RESOURCES THEY NEEDED, INCLUDING MASKS, ALL THE STUFF, WASN'T AVAILABLE.

AND THEY WERE COMPETING WITH OTHER STATES FOR IT.

I KNOW WE'LL GET TO THAT LATER, BUT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT MADE THEIR LIVES MUCH MORE DIFFICULT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSING THIS.

>> IF YOU TOOK A LOOK AT HOW THE DISEASE HAS PROGRESSED AND HOW WE'VE COME OVER THE PAST 12 MONTHS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHART OF CASES, HERE IS HOW THE DISEASE HAS PROGRESSED.

OVER THE PAST YEAR, AS MEASURED BY THE CASES, EARLY ON, WE THOUGHT IT WAS BAD.

BUT THE CASE LEVEL WHERE IT WAS AT WHAT WE NOW CALL ACCEPTABLE, ALSO WE REMEMBER THERE WAS A TEST SHORTAGE, THERE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AN ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF THE NUMBER OF CASES EARLY ON.

CASES BUMPED UP AFTER THE FOURTH OF JULY, THAT THIRD ORANGE BAR.

THEN THEY STARTED SHOOTING UP RAPIDLY AS PEOPLE MOVED INDOORS AND GOT TOGETHER FOR THE HOLIDAYS.

THE PEAK, WE HOPE IT'S THE PEAK, CAME IN MID-DECEMBER.

AND NOW WE'RE HEADING DOWN IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

JACKIE BORCHARDT, YOU LOOK AT HOW SMALL THOSE NUMBERS WERE BACK IN THE SPRING, AND NOW WE THINK WE'RE ALMOST IN THE CLEAR.

THE VACCINES HELP, OF COURSE.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE RAPIDLY MOVING THROUGH VACCINE DISTRIBUTION NOW.

AND UP UNTIL DECEMBER, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY VACCINE IN THE EQUATION.

THAT WAS ONE REASON WHY OHIO AND OTHER STATES SHUT DOWN IN THOSE EARLY DAYS, IS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW -- WE DIDN'T HAVE A WAY TO PREVENT IT.

WE HAVE THE FLU THAT'S AROUND, FLU VACCINES, AND HERD IMMUNITY THERE.

WE ALSO DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO TREAT IT.

SO WHEN YOU LOOKED AT DEATHS, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE SAW THAT SURGE OF CASES AND HOSPITALIZATIONS IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER, IT WAS NOT GOOD AS FAR AS THE DEATH TOLL, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE HAD THAT SURGE OCCURRED BACK IN MARCH AND APRIL WHEN PHYSICIANS WERE NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH THE DISEASE AND HOW TO TREAT IT.

>> MIKE GONIDAKIS, THE GOVERNOR WAS OUT FRONT, HE WAS ONE OF THE EARLY ADOPTERS OF STAY-AT-HOME ORDERS, THE FIRST TO CANCEL A MAJOR EVENT IN THE COUNTRY, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE IN TEXAS THAT PROMPTED HIM TO SHUT DOWN THE ARNOLD.

HE WAS PRAISED, EVEN THOUGH HE'S A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, LIKES THE FREE MARKET, STRESSES PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

DO YOU THINK IF HE HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN, WOULD HE HAVE KEPT THE SHUTDOWN IN PLACE LONGER?

WOULD HE HAVE SHUT DOWN OTHER THINGS?

>> THE GOVERNOR DeWINE I KNOW, I DON'T THINK HE WOULD HAVE DONE ANYTHING DIFFERENT.

HE MIGHT NOT HAVE REVERSED HIS MASK MANDATE AS HE DID ORIGINALLY.

AT THE END OF THE DAY I THINK MIKE DeWINE LOOKS IN THE MIRROR AND SAYS I'M DOING THE BEST THAT WHERE THEY MAY.

THAT WAS HIS OPINION, AND WE'LL GET INTO A BATTLE WITH ANOTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT IN MOMENT, BUT I THINK MIKE STANDS BY THE DECISIONS HE MAKES BASED ON SCIENCE.

WE CAN DEBATE AND DISAGREE WITH CERTAIN ASPECTS OF IT BUT I THINK HE BELIEVES, I WAS ON THE RIGHT COURSE.

THE GOOD NEWS IS AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE SURGE IN CASES, WHATEVER WE WANT TO CALL IT, ISN'T A CORRELATION TO EXACT DEATHS.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.

I'M NOT HERE TO ARGUE ABOUT THAT.

A LOT OF OHIOANS STRUGGLE WITH, WHEN WE HAD A HIGH CASE COUNT, WE WEREN'T SEEING MASS DEATHS, WHICH IS A GOOD THING.

A LOT OF THINGS TO UNWIND SOME DAY WHEN WE LOOK BACK AT THIS.

>> HERB ASHER, IT CAME DOWN TO -- THE ARGUMENT CAME DOWN TO GOVERNMENT MANDATE VERSUS PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, AND WHERE'S THE LINE, AT WHAT POINT DO YOU ALLOW THE PUBLIC TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES WHEN ONE PERSON WHO DOESN'T DO THE RIGHT THING CAN INFECT A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> AND WE SEE THAT ISSUE COMING UP IN A LOT OF OTHER SITUATIONS, INCLUDING VACCINATIONS AT UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES, VACCINATIONS IN PARTS OF NEW YORK CITY.

AND THE QUESTION BECOMES, HOW SERIOUS IS THE ISSUE.

IF WE FOUND OUT THAT TODAY THERE WERE A NEW STRAIN OF THE VIRUS THAT WAS LETHAL, WE PROBABLY WOULD SAY, OH, MY GOODNESS, WE NEED THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT AND THE STATE GOVERNMENTS TO REALLY EXERCISE STRONG AUTHORITY.

AS THINGS ARE GETTING SOMEWHAT IMPROVED NOW, WE'RE SEEING THE ONGOING RESISTANCE TO MANDATES GROWING, AND MORE AND MORE PEOPLE IGNORING MASK-WEARING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THIS IS AN ONGOING PROBLEM.

THE CHALLENGE HERE IS THAT WE NEVER PORTRAYED THIS AS A NATIONAL EMERGENCY.

IN FACT IT WAS LEFT TO THE STATES TO REALLY HANDLE IT.

AND THAT'S OKAY UP TO A POINT.

BUT THERE WERE CERTAIN THINGS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE, INCLUDING ASSURING THAT WE HAD ALL THE NECESSARY EQUIPMENT AND MASKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A NATIONAL GOVERNMENT PRIORITY LED BY THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE GREAT DEAL MAKER THAT WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

INSTEAD, STATES WERE COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER AND ACTUALLY COMPETING WITH FEMA.

I THINK THERE WERE THINGS THAT, IF WE LOOKED BACK TODAY, THE ONE THING WE COULD HAVE DONE THAT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN FEWER DEATHS, IS SIMPLY A MORE SERIOUS MASK MANDATE.

AND IF NOT A MANDATE, THEN SIMPLY SAYING, WE MAY NOT HAVE A MANDATE IN THIS STATE BUT I AS THE GOVERNOR AND ALL THE PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS RECOMMEND THAT YOU WEAR A MASK.

IF WE LOOK BACK, THAT'S THE THING WE COULD HAVE DONE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MOST HELPFUL.

>> MIKE DeWINE WAS A PROPONENT OF WEARING MASKS FROM THE GET-GO, HE ACTUALLY HAD A MASK MANDATE FOR A NUMBER OF HOURS AND THEN PULLED IT BACK.

RETAIL STORES SAID THE MASK MANDATE WAS THE BEST THING THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED.

EVEN WITH THE END OF THE PANDEMIC IN SIGHT, WE HOPE, THE LEGISLATURE WANTS TO CURTAIL THE GOVERNOR'S POWERS TO ISSUE EMERGENCY ORDERS LIKE THE ONES HE'S IMPOSED THIS YEAR.

THE LATEST BILL THAT PUT LIMITS ON THE POWER OF THE GOVERNOR AND LOCAL BOARDS OF HEALTH TO ISSUE AND KEEP HEALTH ORDERS IN PLACE.

DeWINE SAYS THE LEGISLATURE IS NOT CONSIDERING FULLY SCENARIOS YET TO COME.

>> WHEN THE UNKNOWN BECOMES THE KNOWN, WHEN THE HYPOTHETICAL BECOMES REAL, LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS AND THE GOVERNOR HAVE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE VERY QUICKLY TO SAVE LIVES.

SO THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME.

THIS IS ABOUT THE FUTURE AND SAVING OF LIVES.

IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY IRRESPONSIBLE, ABSOLUTELY IRRESPONSIBLE FOR ME TO DO ANYTHING BUT VETO THIS BILL.

>> IF THE LEGISLATURE OVERRIDES HIS VETO, WHICH IS A REAL POSSIBILITY, DeWINE PROMISES TO FIGHT THE LAW IN COURT AS AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL VIOLATION OF THE SEPARATION OF POWERS.

MIKE GONIDAKIS, WHO SHOULD BE IN CHARGE DURING A PANDEMIC?

>> OUR STATE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE IN CHARGE, MIKE.

I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH GOVERNOR DeWINE AND HIS POSITION ON THIS.

AGAIN, A FRIEND OF MINE, FRIENDS CAN DISAGREE.

THE LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED WITH SUPER MAJORITIES DOESN'T SAY YOU CAN'T ACT QUICKLY.

OF COURSE YOU CAN ACT QUICKLY.

BUT WE WANT TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A WINDOW WHERE OUR CO-EQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, WE HAVE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT THAT HAVE A SAY IN OUR LIVES AND HOW WE WANT OUR STATE.

THE LEGISLATION THAT PASSED DOESN'T LIMIT THE GOVERNOR FROM DOING ANYTHING ON A TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, OR THURSDAY.

IT JUST SAYS AFTER 60 DAYS WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT, OR 30 DAYS OR WHATEVER IT IS.

THE LEGISLATURE DID THAT IN MARCH OF 2020, EVERY SINGLE MEMBER, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN, STAYED WITH THE GOVERNOR.

SUPPORT STARTED PEELING OFF IN THE SUMMER.

THE VOTES ARE THERE, IT SAYS, HEY, YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO AS THE LEADER OF THIS STATE BUT AT SOME POINT THE LEGISLATURE WANTS TO BE ENGAGED.

THEY'RE NOT PROHIBITING HIM OR A FUTURE GOVERNOR FROM DOING ANYTHING.

>> JACKIE BORCHARDT, WHAT IS THE GOVERNOR'S CONCERN, IS HE AFRAID THAT POLITICS AND PEOPLE NOT LISTENING TO SCIENCE, LAWMAKERS, STATE SENATORS, THEY LISTEN TO SMALL SECTIONS OF THE STATE AND THEY DON'T REPRESENT PEOPLE AS A WHOLE, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A HEALTH CRISIS, THERE ARE A DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES THAT AN EXECUTIVE CAN DEAL BETTER WITH THAN THE LEGISLATURE.

IS THAT BASICALLY WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS SAYING?

>> YEAH.

I DON'T HAVE THE BILL IN FRONT OF ME, AND IT CHANGED QUITE A BIT THIS WEEK, BUT I THINK THE LAST VERSION DOES ALLOW AGENCY-ISSUED ORDERS, AND THAT'S A BROAD CATEGORY, NOT JUST THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, BUT ANY AGENCY, TO BE REPEALED ON THE SAME DAY THEY'RE ISSUED.

SO THEY TOOK A BILL THAT THE GOVERNOR ALREADY DIDN'T LIKE AND THEY TOOK IT TO A 11.

THEY ALSO PROHIBITED LOCAL HEALTH OFFICIALS, WHICH IN OHIO WE HAVE 113 LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS.

THEY'RE ABLE TO ENACT ALL SORTS OF HEALTH ORDERS AND RESTRICTIONS AND MITIGATION MEASURES BEYOND WHAT THE STATE SETS.

AND THEY BASICALLY IN THIS BILL ARE PULLING THAT BACK A LITTLE BIT MORE AND SAYING, YOU CAN'T CLOSE SCHOOLS, YOU CAN'T CLOSE BUSINESSES AND SOME OF THESE OTHER THINGS.

IT'S BROADER REACHING THAN IT ORIGINATED, WHICH THE GOVERNOR ALREADY DIDN'T LIKE, AND EARLIER THIS WEEK, IN HIS NEWS CONFERENCE, HE PRESENTED A COUPLE OF REALLY GOOD SCENARIOS OF EBOLA -- I'M SORRY, REAL WORLD -- OR WHAT HAPPENED IN OHIO, WHERE BACK IN JANUARY OF 2020 WE HAD SOME COLLEGE STUDENTS THAT HAD RETURNED FROM CHINA AND POSSIBLY WE THOUGHT MIGHT HAVE HAD THE CORONAVIRUS.

WE THOUGHT AT ONE POINT THEY WERE GOING TO BE THE FIRST CASES CONFIRMED IN OHIO.

THEY ENDED UP NOT BEING.

BUT HAVING THAT POWER TO QUARANTINE WHILE YOU'RE AWAITING TEST RESULTS TO COME BACK IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE -- WE'VE ALREADY KNOWN, IS SOMETHING THAT THE STATE MIGHT WANT TO DO, FOR DISEASES WE HAVEN'T EVEN SPOTTED YET.

>> HERB ASHER, YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE THE LEGISLATURE IS COMING FROM, THE ORDER HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR MONTHS, THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A SAY, THEY'RE HEARING FROM THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

WHAT IS THE BALANCE BETWEEN AN EMERGENCY ORDER ISSUED BY THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY VALID, AND BRINGING IN THE OTHER BRANCH, THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT?

>> WELL, IF MIKE GONIDAKIS' DESCRIPTION WERE CORRECT, THEN WHAT THE LEGISLATURE IS SOMEWHAT BENIGN.

IF JACKIE'S IS CORRECT, IT'S MUCH MORE WORRISOME.

I WOULD BE VERY WORRIED FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF LOCAL AND COUNTY AUTHORITIES, BECAUSE SOMETIMES OUTBREAKS HAPPEN VERY LOCALIZED, WHETHER IT'S A CAMPUS OR IT'S A NURSING HOME OR WHATEVER, AND WE DO NOT WANT TO UNDERMINE THE ABILITY OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO MOVE QUICKLY.

MIKE, YOU SAID EARLIER, THERE'S SOME PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR WHOM THIS IS AN IDEOLOGICAL ISSUE.

IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT THE VIRUS PER SE, IT'S ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT, THEY'RE MAD AT GOVERNOR DeWINE.

SO I THINK THAT IT'S NOT EXACTLY MOTIVATED BY THE BEST PUBLIC HEALTH CONCERNS.

IT'S MORE A LITTLE BIT OF A POWER STRUGGLE.

BUT I DO THINK THERE WILL BE, AS JACKIE WAS SAYING, SCENARIOS IN WHICH IN FACT YOU WOULD WANT PEOPLE AT THE STATE LEVEL OR IN FACT THE COUNTY LEVEL TO BE ABLE TO MOVE QUICKLY WITHOUT WORRYING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE OVERTURNED IMMEDIATELY BY THE LEGISLATURE.

REMEMBER, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THIS IS AN IMPOSITION.

IF SOMEBODY IS SAYING, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO THIS, THIS IS WRONG, IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT TO WEAR A MASK AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> MIKE, THE LATEST VERSION HAS THIS IMMEDIATE REPEAL, GRANTED THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK THAT QUICKLY BUT IN THEORY IT COULD, THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING, TO HAVE THE LEGISLATURE IMMEDIATELY OVERTURN AN EMERGENCY ORDER, CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

IF AN ORDER IS ISSUED AT 5:30 ON A MONDAY NIGHT, YOU DON'T WANT TO LEGISLATURE TO IMMEDIATELY TRY TO DO IT, IT'S NOT PRACTICAL.

>> IT'S IN THE LAW, IT COULD HAPPEN.

>> YES, YOU'RE RIGHT, IF IT IS.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS IT DOES LIMIT 113 BOARDS OF HEALTH.

WHEN WE HIT 50 PER 100,000 AND MIKE DeWINE SAYS ALL VOTERS ARE DONE, WHAT WOULD STOP THE FRANKLIN COUNTY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE BOARD OF HEALTH, SAYING WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE THE SCHOOLS AGAIN BECAUSE WE'RE WORRIED AND THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO, I DIDN'T VOTE FOR THAT PERSON, I VOTED FOR THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE.

THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO KEEP DECISIONS OF THIS MAGNITUDE, OUR LIVELIHOODS, OUR ABILITY FOR KIDS TO LEARN AT THE STATE LEVEL WITH OUR GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE.

IF THERE'S A HEALTH OUTBREAK, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE OHIO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

IT SHOULDN'T BE LEFT IN THE HANDS OF THE LOCAL YOKELS.

>> IS THERE ANY TALK OF A SOLUTION OR A COMPROMISE, JACKIE?

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION HERE?

IT'S EITHER ALL OR NOTHING, THE GOVERNOR HAS THE POWER OR THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER?

IS THERE A SOLUTION, A SOLOMON-ESQUE SOLUTION AT THE STATEHOUSE?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A COMPROMISE ON THIS.

IN DECEMBER THERE WAS A DIFFERENT BILL, SENATE BILL 311, WHICH DeWINE VETOED.

PART OF THAT WAS BEHIND THE SCENES COMPROMISE BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS ON OTHER LEGISLATION.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE EARLY IN A NEW SESSION.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF NEW LAWMAKERS THAT WEREN'T PART OF THE EQUATION LAST TIME.

WE HAVE A BILL THAT IS MUCH STRONGER THAN IT WAS LAST SESSION.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THERE'S COMPROMISE.

PUBLICLY THE GOVERNOR HAS NOT INDICATED WHERE HE WOULD MOVE ON THIS BILL.

I DON'T SEE A WAY, THOUGH, THAT HE GETS OUT OF THIS WITHOUT SOME SORT OF ADDITIONAL LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY ON HEALTH ORDER POWER.

I THINK THERE'S AN EXTREMELY STRONG DESIRE FROM THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE TO AT LEAST PUT SOME SORT OF LEGISLATIVE CHECK ON ESPECIALLY HEALTH ORDERS BUT ALSO EMERGENCY DECLARATION POWERS.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR LAST TOPIC.

THE PANDEMIC HAS SPOTLIGHTED AND WIDENED THE CRACKS IN OUR SYSTEM, OUR BILLION DOLLAR HOSPITALS HAD TO ASK CONSTRUCTION CREWS TO DONATE N95 SURGICAL MASKS TO PROTECT DOCTORS AND NURSES EARLY ON.

HEALTH INEQUITIES BETWEEN RICH AND POOR, WHITES AND PEOPLE OF COLOR, STUDENTS IN RURAL AND URBAN DISTRICTS STRUGGLED WITH SLOW OR NO INTERNET CONNECTIONS AS THEY TRIED TO LEARN AT HOME.

AND OUR UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM NEEDS MAJOR WORK, AS WE'VE SEEN IN EVERY ECONOMIC DOWNTURN.

HERB ASHER, WHAT IS THE MAIN DEFICIENCY THIS PANDEMIC SHOWED?

>> IT DID SHOW HERE THAT DISPARATE POPULATIONS ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO HEALTH EMERGENCIES LIKE THE COVID VIRUS.

IT ALSO SHOWED THAT AS A PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM, WE WEREN'T READY FOR THIS.

THIS GOES BACK TO, MIKE, THE POINT YOU MADE ABOUT EQUIPMENT AND MASKS AND EVERYTHING.

AND THE WHOLE SUPPLY CHAIN WAS FLAWED.

THE SUPPLY CHAIN WAS REALLY DEPENDENT OFTENTIMES ON INTERNATIONAL MANUFACTURING.

BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO ADDRESS FOR THE NEXT SITUATION.

>> NOW THAT MORE EQUIPMENT IS BEING MANUFACTURED HERE IN THIS COUNTRY AND STAYING HERE, DO YOU THINK THESE THINGS WILL OCCUR?

>> UNLESS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INDUCES A PRIVATE COMPANY TO DONATE IT, IF IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE TO DO IT IN MEXICO OR CANADA.

KEEP IN MIND PRESIDENT TRUMP DID ORDER -- I THINK IT WAS THE NATIONAL DEFENSE ACT, COUNTLESS NUMBER OF VENTILATORS, WE HAD SO MANY WE GAVE THEM TO CHINA AND OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO WE WERE QUICK ON OUR RESPONSE, YES.

PROFESSOR ASHER IS 100% RIGHT, WE WEREN'T READY, BUT WE HAD A QUICK RESPONSE TO GET READY.

COMPANIES HERE IN OHIO CHANGED THEIR MANUFACTURING PLANTS TO BUILD VARIOUS PPE.

WE'RE AMERICANS, WE CAN DO THIS.

WE NEED TO DO BETTER, DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT WE STEPPED UP AND WE NEEDED EACH OTHER.

>> FOLKS WHO HAD THE MEANS, THEY COULD HAVE INTERNET CONNECTIONS, MULTIPLE ROOMS IN THEIR HOME, THEY SURVIVED.

BUT FOLKS IN LOWER INCOME AREAS DIDN'T HAVE THOSE LUXURIES.

>> YEAH, I THINK FOR YEARS WE WILL BE SEEING THE EFFECTS OF THE PANDEMIC, ESPECIALLY IN EDUCATION AND IN OUR CHILDREN AND HOW IT HAS AFFECTED THEM.

I MEAN, IN THE SCALE OF THINGS, NOT JUST THEIR ACADEMIC LIFE AND THEIR SCHOOL LIFE BUT PSYCHOLOGICALLY, WHAT HAS THIS DONE TO CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY YOUNG CHILDREN, WHERE THIS IS KIND OF THEIR FIRST OR REALEST MEMORY, IS BEING -- YOU KNOW, STAYING AT HOME AND NOT BEING ABLE TO HUG GRANDMA, AND MISSING THEIR FRIENDS, LIKE YOU SAID, AND SOME OF THAT INTERACTION.

THE SCHOOLING IS AN IMMEDIATE ISSUE THAT NEEDS ATTENTION.

SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE ALREADY TRYING TO PLAN FOR HOW TO CATCH KIDS UP OVER THE SUMMER.

AND ALSO PLANNING FOR HOW TO RETURN TO BUILDINGS IN THE FALL.

THAT'S STILL A BIG QUESTION MARK FOR MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS, ESPECIALLY COLUMBUS AND THESE LARGER URBAN DISTRICTS THAT HAVE BUILDING ISSUES.

HOW DO THEY GET EVERYBODY BACK IN THE BUILDING FULL-TIME WHILE MAINTAINING SAFETY PROTOCOLS.

>> MIKE GONIDAKIS, REAL QUICK, UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM IS NEVER FULLY FUNDED, THE LEGISLATURE NEVER FUNDS IT BECAUSE WHEN TIMES ARE GOOD THEY DON'T WANT TO RAISE TAXES.

IS IT TIME TO LOOK AT A MINIMUM BASE IN THE UNEMPLOYMENT FUND, IF THAT MEANS HIGHER TAXES OR CUTTING BENEFITS?

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS.

WE'VE HAD TO BORROW BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT JUST TO MEET MINIMUM STANDARDS SINCE THE PANDEMIC HIT IN MARCH.

WE HAVE TO GIVE A LOT OF MONEY BACK TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

YES, WE'LL HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO FUND IT.

WE OUGHT TO PAY IT BACK TO THE FEDS, THEY'LL NEED TO HAVE THEIR MONEY WITH INTEREST.

HOW MANY OF US HAVE FOUND OUT THAT SOMEONE HAS STOLEN OUR IDENTITY AND FILED AN EMPLOYMENT CLAIM ALREADY?

SO IT'S A BROKEN SYSTEM, IT'S A HOT MESS.

IT'S A BAD LOOK FOR OUR STATE GOVERNMENT.

>> HERB ASHER, 30 SECONDS, ZOOM CLASSES HERE TO STAY?

>> I THINK EVERYBODY IN ALL OF EDUCATION IS SAYING, WE NEED TO GET BACK TO IN-CLASSROOM INSTRUCTION.

AND I THINK THAT'S A GROWING CONSENSUS.

IT'S ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR YOUNGER KIDS.

BUT COLLEGE KIDS, THEY WANT TO BE BACK ON CAMPUS.

THEY WANT TO BE BACK IN THE CLASSROOM.

ZOOM HAS ITS USES.

>> LET'S GET TO OUR OFF THE RECORD PARTING SHOTS.

WE'VE ASKED OUR PANELISTS FOR ONE KEY TAKEAWAY FROM THIS PAST YEAR.

WE'LL START WITH MIKE GONIDAKIS.

>> I THINK IT'S THE FACT THAT WE'VE COME TOGETHER.

WE MIGHT NOT SEE IT ON TWITTER AND FACEBOOK BUT I THINK AS A STATE OVERALL, AND COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE, VARIOUS COUNTIES, WE'VE COME TOGETHER TO HELP ONE ANOTHER.

AND ESPECIALLY THE KIDS.

I'VE SEEN SO MANY PARENTS GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HELP OTHER PARENTS THAT HAD TO WORK.

SOME HOUSES TURNED INTO CLASSROOMS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD ALONE.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST REMARKABLE THINGS I'VE SEEN, PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER OF ALL DIFFERENT STRIPES.

>> HERB ASHER.

>> WE'RE NOW GOING TO BE VERY CREATIVE IN TRYING TO GET BACK TO A NEW NORMAL.

THE GREATER COLUMBUS ARTS COUNCIL AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO DO PUBLIC OUTDOOR ARTS EVENTS.

I'M PUSHING FOR A MINI ARTS FESTIVAL THAT FEATURES OUR LOCAL ARTISTS WHO HAVE REALLY TAKEN AN ECONOMIC HIT.

>> JACKIE BORCHARDT.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO GO TO A LOCAL ARTIST FESTIVAL.

I'M GOING TO BE BIASED AND SAY THE IMPORTANCE OF THE PRESS AND GETTING INFORMATION AND GOOD INFORMATION OUT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CAN GET INFORMATION FROM ALL DIFFERENT SOURCES, YOU KNOW, THE LOCAL JOURNALISTS IN OHIO HAVE BEEN WORKING REALLY HARD IN THE LAST YEAR TO HELP WITH UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS AND TO GET INFORMATION ABOUT VACCINE CLINICS OUT.

HOPEFULLY THAT WILL STICK AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

OUR CREW HERE AT "COLUMBUS ON THE RECORD" HAS COME TOGETHER TO BRING THIS SHOW TO YOU EVERY WEEK, IT'S NOT BEEN EASY, THEY'VE MANAGED IT.

WE'VE HAD THE GREEN TIE, JACKIE HAD THE GREEN SWEATER ON.

HOPEFULLY ON THE NEXT ST. PATRICK'S DAY WE CAN CELEBRATED IN CROWDED IRISH PUBS.

I'M MIKE THOMPSON.

FOR OUR PANEL, HAVE A GOOD WEEK.

-- Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com