♪♪ Scott: Since the onset of the pandemic, the Asian American Pacific Islander community has experienced increased levels of hatred and violence.

What are the roots of this hostility?

And more importantly, what is being done about it?

Joining us today are Manjusha Kulkarni of A3PCON, Sacramento City Councilwoman, Mai Vang, and Crossings TV President Daniel Sakaya, Manjusha, violence and discrimination against the AAPI community in this country is not new.

What's led to this moments unprecedented level of public awareness and activism?

Manjusha: Well, first off, thanks so much for having me on the program today, Scott.

What we're seeing now is really the latest iteration of anti-Asian hate in our country.

We know that from the 1800s our community members experienced, uh, what was known as the Yellow Peril and led to the Chinese Exclusion Act in the 1900s that continued with the Japanese American incarceration.

Um, we also have the Dusky Peril against individuals like myself, South Asian Americans.

Um, and then moving on into the 1980s, the killing of Vincent Chin, and then, uh, the backlash against Muslim, South Asian, and Sikh Americans, um, really in the 2000s.

So really what we're seeing now is some of those tropes being used again, uh, but really combined with COVID.

And so, individuals are experiencing verbal harassment, physical assault, discrimination in the workplace, refusal of service.

And at Stop AAPI Hate we've received almost 4,000 incident reports, uh, just between March of last year and February of this year.

And sadly, we know that number is growing.

Uh, and so it's up to all of us to begin to look at policy prescriptions that really get to the heart of what's happening now.

Scott: Councilwoman Vang, you have been a, uh, part of, uh, the Sacramento community and a part of the political and activist community for a number of years.

What's the Sacramento story on how our region is reacting, uh, to the recent incidents?

Mai: Thanks so much, Scott, and thank you so much for having me on Sacramento Studio.

Really, uh, am humbled to be here in this space with you, and also our incredible panelists.

Um, you know, in the wake of ongoing protest for racial justice, I think our communities in the city of Sacramento and across the nation is really demanding for change from institution.

Um, I think you heard earlier that there is a long and painful and racist history, uh, in this country towards, uh, Blacks, towards Asian Americans and so many minority groups.

Um, and, uh, you know, we've been in this pandemic for over a year now, um, and Asian Americans, uh, you know, locally here in Sacramento are also increasingly concerned about their safety and their wellbeing.

Um, there is a lot of work that we still have to do collectively as a community, not just within the Asian American community, but all of our communities to really address the multiple and, uh, inter-- inter-- intergenerational harm and trauma, uh, that our community holds very deeply.

Scott: Hmm, Daniel, um, what has been the reporting focus of your network and where does it-- it seems that there's been a mo-- the most audience interest on this issue?

Daniel: Well, I think, you know, uh, when a lot of this started last year, um, a lot of, you know, it was really insular in that it hadn't really hit general market as much.

It was more the Asian community speaking to itself.

Uh, and... and I think, uh, some people questioned that in terms of, you know, do Asian people really need to hear about this?

And the reality is they do, because there's a big education elements.

A lot of this community doesn't understand what a hate crime is specifically, what a hate incident isn't.

And they especially don't feel empowered to, you know, report and say things about it and really kind of come out with it, you know, to the public.

So, that's been the focus.

It's been a lot of, um, you know, public messaging, uh, things like outreach messaging, things of that nature just to keep educating our own community about, you know, how, uh, how deep this problem is right now.

Scott: Hmm.

Councilwoman Vang, one of the interesting things that Daniel just spoke to is that there's been conversations amongst the community with itself, um, which... which speaks to not conversations that were more broad, that were broader based.

How, uh, how prevalent, uh, has conversation-- have conversations that really look at this on a systemic basis been outside of the API community just having dialogue within itself?

Mai: Yeah, Scott, that's a really great question.

You know, um, when we talk about racial equity or racial justice, uh, in this country, oftentimes Asian Americans are overlooked, right?

And, um, as we're seeing the uptake in anti -Asian incident and hate, you're starting to see the narratives and the conversation, um, not just within the Asian American community, but larger than that.

And I like to say it's really, we are now entering the consciousness of America.

Um, you know, we all know that anti-Asian hate isn't something that's new.

Uh, but now in this moment, folks are listening, uh, to... to our... to our struggles and the harm that-- the deep harm that's in our community.

Um, so those conversations are happening, uh, inside our community and outside as well.

Um, and that's important because if you are to address anti-Asian, um, hate and xenophobia, um, right?

Uh, really, at the end of the day, it is a collective effort, um, from... from all communities standing in solidarity side-by-side um.

The council, you know, a month ago or so, uh, passed a resolution to condemn... to condemn anti-Asian hate in the city.

And that was really just the first step.

I think, as a... as an elected now, but as an organizer, you know, I...

I thought to myself, like, what would a piece of paper do, a resolution, right?

And one it's so important for our city to acknowledge that there is harm and trauma in a city, right.

It sets the foundation for the work and the policy that lays ahead in our city, um, you know, acknowledging the harm.

And then saying, collectively, we are committed to working with Asian American and Pacific Islander organization to co-lead and co-create transformative solution because what we've been doing in this city and this nation hasn't worked for our communities.

And so, um, you know, right now in this moment, my team, um, and community partners are actually getting together to co-create an agenda of what a larger AAPI meeting, uh, would look like.

But I would say that, um, you know, our communities have been addressing this issue and have been doing the work on the ground.

It's activists, it's community, organ-- organization, and they're not going to wait for a government.

Right?

You have a community stepping up to do, um, like solutions such as like Safety on Stockton, right?

Uh, pairing up, um, volunteers with elders as they're walking to their car from the grocery store.

Folks are stepping up to make sure that our communities are taken care of.

But as a city government, we also have a responsibility one, not just to condemn it, but to make sure we also implement policy, tangible policy and invest in resources, uh, for our communities, for our seniors, for elders, for healthy neighborhoods so that incidents like this don't happen.

Scott: Uh, Manjusha, I wanted to, um, piggyback on something that the councilwoman just raised about how sometimes the issues of the AAPI community gets subsumed in the broader discussion of civil rights.

Uh, I-- I've heard it referred to before as, um, sometimes within the civil rights community and within activists that there is the equivalent of the oppression Olympics, meaning whose pain or whose, uh, challenges are more significant than others and need to be addressed.

As a person who has worked in the field for a number of years for various organizations, uh, w-- what is it that the AAPI community is asking of the broader civil rights and activist community to do at this point in order to make sure that these issues get the airtime and the focus they need?

Manjusha: Well, you know, that's such an important question.

And let me say, as I start to answer it, um, that, you know, my background, uh, and work starts at the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization known for, you know, tackling some of our hardest, uh, questions around race and civil rights.

Um, and then I also had an opportunity later to work, um, as a law clerk at MALDEF, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund.

And... and now of course, coming to A3PCON.

So, I mean, I think what's important is that we're in this together, really, as the council member said, and there's no need to, essentially squabble about who has it worse.

Right?

What we know and understand is that under white supremacy, um, we are all really being failed.

Um, our democracy's not working.

Um, we know that African Americans and Latinx communities are bearing the brunt of some of this in terms of police violence, mass incarceration, uh, issues around immigration enforcement.

Um, there's no question of that.

But I think what our communities are saying right now is, you know, our issues are important too.

And so, what we are seeing is white supremacy working against us in terms of, um, some of that systemic oppression or discrimination.

So, refusals of service at businesses.

Um, you know, as I mentioned before, the workplace discrimination component, so it's not just sort of the one -on -one attacks or verbal comments that are made, but it's really within a bigger, um, infrastructure that we're seeing, uh, our communities that are really not getting their due.

That people are scared literally to go outside, to go to the grocery store and during the pandemic, they're afraid of just even taking care of the tasks of daily living.

And so, I think what we're asking for and what we're getting, honestly, from members of other communities, our African American sisters and brothers are-- have been supporting us, Latinx sisters and brothers supporting us.

So, I don't think it's an either or it's really an and, uh, answer.

And I think we are coming together.

And by the way, I should say, we are also supporting them.

And so, I was so heartened, not only last summer, but you know, as we continue to address issues of police violence, we were, you know, certainly relieved by the verdict yesterday, but then also made aware of the fact that within hours, we found out that a 15 year old African American girl was killed by police.

So, all of these really are issues we've got to address together and there's honestly not a point to separating them out because they're all what we suffer under with white supremacy.

Scott: You... you talk about white supremacy, but at the same time, uh Manjusha, there is-- when you look at the reporting, particularly reporting, uh, that's happened, uh, in recent times, we have seen some interracial, um, uh, examples of where it is, for instance, in Oakland, where it's been African American males, um, preying on elderly members of the AAPI community.

And so, uh, is there-- is that you talk about solidarity, but, uh, as a community, uh, of people of color are those important conversations where people are being accountable, being held at this time?

Mai: Scott- Manjusha: I think those conversations... Oh, sorry.

Go ahead councilwoman.

Mai: Oh, yeah.

I actually, I wanted to add to this right.

And Scott, you know, um, that's a really good question.

And I do want-- first want to share that that is a conversation that's happening within the Asian American community, really, to reckon with.

I think one thing to acknowledge is that, you know, when a perpetrator, uh, does a, uh, um, an awful act, right, that that perpetrator does not represent an entire community.

And as we're addressing anti-Asian hate and incident, um, locally in Sacramento, in the state and across the nation, that we know we have to be careful to also not de-humanize and criminalize a specific community because of an action of one.

So that's very important and that's the conversation that we are having within our own community as well.

Um, and making sure that, um, we really address also anti-Blackness in the Asian American community.

I will be the first to throw my body on the line to defend my Black siblings and say, no, this is not okay.

Right?

If you are criminalizing a community, uh, because of, uh, um, an awful act, um, an act of violence, uh, from one individual perpetrator, um, that does not represent an entire community.

Um, the other thing I also wanted to add, um, you know, when we talk about the consciousness of America and how Asian Americans and Pacific Islander fall into that, you know, there, um, and... and Scott, you may know this already, but you know, there continues to be this harmful and inaccurate narrative that, uh, paints Asian American and Asian immigrants, um, as a monolithic group, right?

That we are successful, that we are, uh, you know, one, uh, you know, we speak one language or one culture and that we don't experience racism.

Right?

And what the myth actually does, cause you talked a little bit about, you know, there's, you know, oppression Olympics, right.

That this myth actually contributes to the eraser of anti-Asian racism, right.

Um, and, um, when you actually disaggregate data in the Asian American community, you see that Asian Americans and Pacific Islander actually have the largest wealth gap, uh, in our community.

Um, and so what... what ends up happening with this myth is that it... it doesn't address the issue of anti-Asian, um, hate in our community, and then it's not covered by mainstream media.

But let me also be clear that the Model Minority myth and the stereotype was... was really coined specifically and purposefully to divide... divide us and to keep other communities down, uh, in particular, the Black community.

Right?

And so, this is the ways in which white supremacy works, um, and the Model Minority, uh, is for me, I mean, in my opinion, it's a tool.

It's really a tool to keep communities of colors down.

And it's a tool for racism.

Scott: Daniel, I want to get you in on this because your entire world is presenting images, um, and information that is-- that represents and speaks to the... the diversity of the AAPI community.

Um, Councilwoman Vang makes a really important point about out that diversity.

But I'd like you to speak to, how is it that, um, you feel that the representation of the community has fared with regards to the mainstream media and what is it that, um, a network like yours does in order to really show the reality of the spectrum of the community.

Daniel: Yeah.

Uh, great question.

So, we're a little bit unique because we're a multi-agent, uh, network.

We're the only one.

And so, if you look at any newspaper, there's a Chinese newspaper, there's a Vietnamese TV channel.

And so, we look at how Asians actually aggregates.

Uh, we always talk about how that's a big challenge because, uh, you know, uh, you know, unlike Hispanic or the Black community there isn't a common language, right?

There's a lot of different, uh, cultural distinctions between the different groups, so how do you aggregate them into one identity?

And so that's been, I...

I point that out because I think that's not just a challenge of being able to collectively unify as Asian American and really have that identity, but also because that's made it really, um, a bit of a block for a lot of the general market to come in and engage with this marketplace.

We see that from an advertising standpoint where, you know, you... you walk in and you start talking to an advertiser and that could be, you know, a... a for-profit business selling soap detergent, or that could be, you know, just a government agency with some outreach messaging.

And there's such a complexity that they don't face when, you know, uh, having to target their messaging towards other groups like Black or Hispanic, that they become very apprehensive.

They don't know, uh, how to navigate it.

You know, there isn't a lot of collective information about that out there.

And so, I believe, you know, there is more complexity within Asian Americans that does make it a challenge.

And... and we've seen though the general market, and really, I think that, you know, the... the general market finally started to cover, you know, all of this, uh, you know, racism against Asians in the last, uh, couple of months here.

But it's been happening for a year.

Right?

And we've been talking about it with each other for a year, but it's finally, uh, come out and we still-- and we have these conversations with these advertisers.

We've had the conversations, uh, with a lot of these, uh, organizations and there's still an apprehension.

There's still a challenge about how do we come in?

How do we make sure we're being culturally sensitive across such distinct, you know, different cultures?

I mean a dozen plus of them, right?

Scott: Okay.

Um, Manjusha, the New York Times has reported on just the spike in, um, violence and violent acts, um, targeted toward the AAPI community since, um, the pandemic.

What is the relationship to this explosion of behavior of hate crimes that have been reported to the police in 2020 and the pandemic itself?

Manjusha: Well, let me say that, you know, the data we have from Stop AAPI Hate indicates actually that the vast majority of incidents experienced by Asian Americans, uh, across our 50 States are not actually hate crimes.

They're hate incidents.

So, um, our data shows that 90 to 95% do not involve an underlying criminal element.

Uh, of course, you know, we know that often when-- Scott: Is that a distinction that matters?

Manjusha: Uh, absolutely it matters.

So, when we look at solutions, we have to know whether it involves a crime or not.

One is of course, the sensationalism around crimes that of course can push people toward either more policing, more law enforcement.

And we know that that's not the answer in many of these cases, right?

And with hate incidents we... we do have strong civil rights laws, um, that we need to enforce.

We need civil prosecutions.

Um, and that gets to the issue of individual perpetrators versus, uh, what we have institutional perpetrators, right?

So, when we see the everyday acts that are experienced by the 90%, we know that we need to go after businesses who are discriminating against customers.

We need to go after those who are discriminating against employees.

So, that distinction, Scott, is extremely important.

And when we, um, also, you know, look at the question you asked earlier around perpetrators, this comes into play as well, which is that, um, our data shows that really the majority of perpetrators are white.

Um, and again, the media is showing something different, right?

And so it feeds into anti -Blackness.

It, uh, creates a wedge between our communities that just, frankly, is not evidenced by the data at all.

And so again, when we shift the focus back to institutions, to white supremacy, we really understand what's going on in our country.

And we then, um, create appropriate solutions to that problem.

What is the real problem?

We're not going to police our way out of anti-Asian hate.

We're just not.

Scott: Well, uh, that is... that's an important point.

And, uh, I-- when I was looking at the data, one of the things that was most surprising to me, uh, Councilwoman Vang is that in California... California, uh, seems to be, unfortunately, the leader in the country in, uh, having these types of incidents take place.

And given California's reputation as open-minded and, uh, supposedly tolerant, does that surprise you at all?

And do you have any thoughts of what might be behind that?

Mai: Um, it doesn't surprise me.

Um, cause I think, I think you heard from the panel is that, you know, um, anti-Asian hate micro-aggressions, and I think that I face-- I can only speak from my experience as an Asian American woman-- like the day-to-day kind of, um, stereotyping or comments, or I would say even the hyper-- Scott: Like... like what, Councilwoman Vang?

Mai: Like the hyper -sexual -—hyper-sexualization of Asian woman, right?

Um, you know, I definitely feel it in spaces or like, "Oh, look at-- she's... she's really cute."

Right?

Or like, you know, you can definitely sense it in the room the way that you're talk to as well.

Um, you know, in which ties back to like, I think about the Atlanta shooting, uh, that happened, right?

Um, when, um-- and I'm not a lawyer so I also know that there are hate incidents that doesn't, you know, um, elevate to a hate crime.

Um, but, um, you can't separate race and... and-- race in that, and gender, right?

There's that intersectionality piece that there's this long history of hyper-sexualization of Asian... Asian women.

I mean, the perpetrator said he had a sex addiction.

You know.

Um, and so for me, I think when race is not considered, it's a disregard for our existence.

Um, and so, um, then these are like daily micro-aggressions that I feel like immigrant women, Asian Americans face on a day-to-day basis that may not elevate to a hate crime, right?

There are-- Scott: Uh, but go back to the... to the piece of that California seems to be overrepresented in the United States with these types of acts versus its reputation.

What do you think is behind that?

Mai: Yeah, well I'm-- I would say one, just cause you have a diverse community living in a state doesn't mean that everyone understand the lift struggle and trauma of each other, right?

Just because you have a diverse state doesn't mean that folks are speaking with one another or really truly learning.

Which is another reason why I'm such a strong proponent of ethnic studies in our schools.

I think it's really important for young people to learn about each other's history, each other's struggle, to be able to learn about each other's, um, uh, lived experiences, right?

That is how we can begin to really understand, uh, each other in terms of being compassionate, um, uh, empathize and really... really know that at the end of the day it's really about protecting humanity.

Um, but many of our folks in, even in California, I would say, don't know the history of Asian Americans.

And I would say Asian Americans don't know the history of African Americans, right?

And it's really important for us to not just live together, but really learn and build with one another.

That's really key.

Scott: It sounds like you're saying that we are diverse, but it doesn't mean that we're integrated.

Mai: That's right.

Scott: Okay.

Uh... uh, Manjusha, I want to come back to just this activism.

Back in 1982, uh, Vincent Chin was beaten to death in Detroit, and it birthed a movement within the AAPI community on civil rights.

Um, somehow that while there were efforts that went forward, there was this brief explosion of activity, and, um, some have said, you know, the... the concern is that this moment we're in right now will receive.

What's different about this moment that's going to sustain, uh, the level of intensity and focus that we've got at this time?

Manjusha: I think there are a number of factors that are different about today than the 1980s.

First off, we have a much larger population.

Um, we make up 24 million individuals in what is over, you know, 300 million in the United States.

And in, you know, states like California, it's actually quite a significant population, 16%.

Um, and so I think that also leads, um, to a few other factors, which are that we have, you know, wonderful policymakers like the council member, um, which we didn't have in the 1980s.

Um, so at local levels, at state levels, um, and even at federal levels.

I mean, our vice president now is African American and South Asian American.

So, we're in a very different place, um, and we have individuals who take our issue seriously in a way that we've not seen in the past.

And that's even true for journalism.

Um, you know, so many of the individuals who call me for interviews are Asian Americans who work at mainstream outlets.

And they've told me that their colleagues don't understand the problem, don't necessarily take it seriously.

But that's why it's important that they're there because they understand it, they're experiencing it.

Their parents are experiencing it.

And so, I think those key differences are going to help and have helped, uh, I think to galvanize, uh, young folks, uh, elderly.

I was in a, um, rally in Koreatown in Los Angeles a few weeks back, and you had, uh, elderly aunties and uncles in walkers and wheelchairs alongside young people as young as 10 and 12.

And so, I really do think that you're seeing all of us, not only across age, but even across ethnicity come together.

We have Southeast Asian, we have Pacific Islander, we have South Asian alongside the East Asian Americans.

Um, so I really do think this is a different moment and I'm looking forward to seeing what changes will come out of it.

Scott: I think that we will leave it there.

There's so much more to discuss and I hope that, um, you all will be open to coming back on to further this conversation in the future.

Manjusha: Thanks so much.

Daniel: Thank you so much.

Mai: Absolutely.

Thank you so much for having us.

Scott: All right.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guests, and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪ ♪♪ Scott Syphax: All episodes of Studio Sacramento, along with other KVIE programs, are available to watch online at kvie.org/video.