>>> THE UPCOMING PROGRAM WAS PREVIOUSLY RECORDED.

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED ON THIS PROGRAM ARE NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF WTJX, ITS BOARD, STAFF, OR UNDERWRITERS.

♫♫ ♫♫ >>> GOOD DAY AND WELCOME TO "ABLE TO RAISE."

A PROGRAM THAT FOCUSES ON RAISING AWARENESS, RAISING FAMILIES, AND RAISING CONSCIOUSNESS.

AND TODAY WE´RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH A VERY CHALLENGING SUBJECT.

THE SUBJECT OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.

CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IS DEFINED AS A DISCIPLINE METHOD IN WHICH A SUPERVISING ADULT INFLICTS DELIBERATELY PAIN UPON A CHILD IN RESPONSE TO THE CHILD´S BEHAVIOR OR LANGUAGE.

SO I HAVE TODAY THREE EXPERTS, I WOULD SAY, ON THE SUBJECT OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.

DEE BAECHER-BROWN, PRESIDENT OF THE COMMUNITY FOUNDATION OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS.

ANNA SCARBRIEL, VICE PRESIDENT OF GRANTS AND PROGRAMS FOR THE COMMUNITY FOUNDATION.

AND ANGUS DRIGO, A PARENT ADVOCATE.

WELCOME, ALL OF YOU.

I´M LOOKING FORWARD TO A VERY STIMULATING CONVERSATION IN THIS REGARD.

DEE, LET´S START WITH YOU.

IF YOU CAN TELL US SOME OF WHAT THE COMMUNITY FOUNDATION HAS BEEN DOING IN THAT REGARD?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO START BY THANKING YOU FOR HOSTING THIS CONVERSATION, BECAUSE I THINK IT´S A VERY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

AND AS YOU SAID WE NEED TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE WITH WHAT WE SEE AS SOCIAL JUSTICE FOR OUR CHILDREN IN THE VIRGIN ISLANDS.

THANK YOU FOR SHINING A LIGHT ON THIS IMPORTANT DISCUSSION.

>> THANK YOU.

I LIKE THAT CONTEXT IN WHICH YOU FRAME IT.

WE CAN CERTAINLY TALK MORE ABOUT THAT PERSPECTIVE.

ANNA, TELL US ABOUT YOURSELF AND WHAT BRINGS YOU TO THIS CONVERSATION.

>> SURE.

TO ECHO DEE, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AND INCLUDING THE FOUNDATION.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NEAR AND DEAR TO US, SOMETHING THAT WE´VE BEEN LOOKING AT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

MY BACKGROUND IS IN COUNSELING PSYCHOLOGY, THAT´S WHAT MY Ph.D. IS.

I ALSO HAVE TWO YOUNG CHILDREN, AN 18-MONTH-OLD AND 4 1/2-YEAR-OLD, SO I AM ABLE TO BRING SOME OF THAT PERSPECTIVE AS WELL.

JUST TO ECHO WHAT DEE SAID, WE KNOW THAT CORPORAL PUNISHMENT -- THERE ARE WAYS WE COULD APPROACH THE TOPIC FROM PSYCHOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVES, FROM JUST A KIND OF PARENTING AND CONSCIOUS PARENTING.

I LIKE THAT YOU USE THAT WORD CONSCIOUSNESS.

I REALLY FEEL THAT THAT´S WHAT´S AT THE CORE OF THIS CONVERSATION AND THIS ISSUE.

>> YOU DO HAVE TO BE DELIBERATE, RIGHT?

IN EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO AS A PARENT OR AS A HUMAN BEING.

CERTAINLY PARENTING IS NOT AN EASY TASK.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND AND PERSPECTIVE ON CORPORATE PUNISHMENT.

>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME ON THIS PROGRAM.

MY FIRST FORAY INTO LIVE TELEVISION.

APPROACHING THIS FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF A PARENT, ALSO FROM A VICTIM´S PERSPECTIVE.

WHEN I HEART THE WORD VICTIM [ INAUDIBLE ] -- >> ANNA, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

YOU HAVE A BACKGROUND IN CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGY, AS YOU INDICATED.

HOW HAS THAT HELPED YOU RAISE YOUR CHILDREN?

I DON´T KNOW IF WE´VE LEARNED IN PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU´RE A PARENT.

HOW HAS THAT HELPED YOU IN NAVIGATING THE CHALLENGES OF BEING A PARENT OF YOUNG CHILDREN?

>> WELL, SO CLEARLY I HAVE THE BOOK KNOWLEDGE WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THE DOs AND DON´Ts.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT ONCE YOU´RE THROWN INTO IT, IT CAN BE VERY CHALLENGING TO APPROACH IT FROM THAT KIND OF INTELLECTUAL PERSPECTIVE.

SO WHAT I TRY TO DO IS I TREAT MY CHILDREN HOW I WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED.

I REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE A CHILD.

I REMEMBER THAT I GREW UP IN A HOUSEHOLD WHERE PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT WAS USED.

I REMEMBER -- I CERTAINLY SAW THEM MOSTLY USED ON MY SIBLINGS.

I KNEW VERY MUCH THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING I WANTED MY CHILDREN TO EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT I LIKE THE.

I THINK THAT WHEN WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE, THEY TEND TO SAY, I TURNED OUT JUST FINE, LOOK AT ME, I´M FINE.

BUT I DON´T WANT MY CHILDREN TO BE FINE, I WANT THEM TO THRIVE AND I WANT THEM TO FEEL A SENSE OF AUTONOMY AND I WANT THEM TO FEEL LIKE THEY WERE HEARD AS CHILDREN AND THAT THE PARENTING PROCESSES THAT I USED WERE FAIR AND SUCCESSFUL.

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY WHAT I TRY TO ALWAYS RELY ON IS COMMUNICATION.

AND THIS IS -- I CERTAINLY DON´T WANT TO PAINT A PICTURE THAT I AM SOME PERFECT PARENT OR NEVER MAKE MISTAKES OR LOSE MY COOL, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT MY KIDS HAVE BEEN HOME WITH ME SINCE MARCH ARE BUT WHAT I DO WANT TO EMPHASIZE IS THAT I THINK I´M NOT RUNNING A DICTATORSHIP, I AM RUNNING A HOUSEHOLD.

AND WHILE I MAY BE IN CHARGE, I NEVER WANT MY CHILDREN TO FEEL LIKE THEY DON´T UNDERSTAND THE WAY THAT THE HOUSEHOLD IS WORKING OR TO TRANSLATE IT TO THE TOPIC OF SCHOOLS AND CARE SETTINGS, I WOULD WANT CHILDREN TO HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE RULES AND EXPECTATIONS ARE, TO KNOW IN ADVANCE WHAT THE STRATEGIES OF DISCIPLINE WILL BE, AND ALL OF THAT TO BE GROUNDED IN A CARING, LOVING RELATIONSHIP, WHETHER IT´S THE CAREGIVER OR A TEACHER OR A PRINCIPAL OR WHOEVER.

I FEEL LIKE ONCE YOU HAVE COMMUNICATION AND RESPECT AND TRUST AND CARE, THAT´S A RECIPE FOR HOPEFULLY SITUATIONS WHERE YOU WOULD NOT NEED TO USE PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT, INSTEAD YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE OTHER APPROACHES.

>> GIVE US SOME CONCRETE IDEAS.

LET´S SAY YOU HAVE A DISAGREEMENT WITH A TODDLER.

AND THE TODDLER HAS A MELTDOWN.

AGAIN, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT A GOOD TIME, THIS IS A COVID-19 SITUATION WITH A LOT OF FAMILIES THRUST INTO A VERY CONFINING SITUATION, AND CHILDREN ARE NOT IN THEIR ROUTINE, USUALLY ROUTINES.

PARENTS COULD GO TO WORK, GET A LITTLE BREAK.

HERE IT´S 24/7.

>> CHALLENGING.

IT´S VERY CHALLENGING.

SO I THINK IT´S OKAY TO TAKE BREAKS.

I DON´T FEEL LIKE EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE SETTLED IN THAT EXACT MOMENT.

MY 4-YEAR-OLD HAS YOUR I GUESS OUTBURSTS, MY YOUNGER CHILD.

SO IF WE´RE NOT ABLE TO GET SOMEWHERE -- SAY SHE´S UPSET BECAUSE SHE CAN´T HAVE A CERTAIN SNACK OR SHE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING.

I SAY TO HER, I UNDERSTAND YOU´RE FEELING UPSET BECAUSE X, Y, Z.

UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.

IF YOU NEED TO TAKE A BREAK OR GO TO YOUR ROOM OR GO WHEREVER YOU´D LIKE AND TAKE SOME SPACE, THAT´S FINE, AND WE´LL TALK WHEN YOU´RE CALM AGAIN.

IN A CLASSROOM, MAYBE YOU HAVE A SPECIAL AREA WHERE CHILDREN CAN GO TO COOL OFF.

MAYBE THEY CAN GO TO THE NURSE´S OFFICE.

I KNOW THAT WE HAVE LIMITED COUNSELORS IN SCHOOL, BUT MAYBE THEY JUST NEED TIME TO COOL OFF AND RELAX, MAYBE THE TEACHERS NEED THAT AS WELL.

SPEAKING FOR MYSELF AS A PARENT, I CAN FEEL WHEN I GET INTO THAT PLACE WHERE I´M PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE USING THAT BOOK KNOWLEDGE.

I´M PROBABLY GOING TO BE GETTING FRUSTRATED, MAYBE YELLING, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

FOR ME TO GET A BREAK IS ONE APPROACH.

EVEN BEFORE WE GET TO THAT PLACE, I TRY TO GIVE MY CHILDREN OPTIONS.

I RECOGNIZE THAT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT HEAR THE CONVERSATION AND FEEL LIKE, WELL, THAT´S A VERY -- THAT WAY OF PARENTING IS NOT RELEVANT TO OUR CULTURE.

I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

THAT MIGHT BE A CONVERSATION FOR ANOTHER DAY.

BUT FOR ME I LIKE TO GIVE MY CHILDREN CHOICES.

WHETHER IT´S ABOUT BREAKFAST, WHETHER IT´S ABOUT WHAT SHOW THEY´RE GOING TO WATCH OR WHAT THEY´RE GOING TO DO, GIVING THEM CHOICES WITHIN REASON MAKES THEM FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE SOME CONTROL OVER THEIR ENVIRONMENT, ESPECIALLY DURING A TIME WHERE IT´S ALL ABOUT REALLY STRUGGLING AND FEELING LIKE WE DON´T HAVE MUCH CONTROL OVER WHAT´S GOING ON.

>> RIGHT, THAT´S A GREAT ANSWER.

ANGUS, YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY DEFINED YOURSELF AS A VICTIM.

>> CORRECT.

>> WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM I GREW UP WITHIN [ INAUDIBLE ] THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL, CORPORAL PUNISHMENT WAS METED OUT.

NOT JUST BY PRINCIPALS OR PEOPLE IN AUTHORITY, BUT BY TEACHERS THEMSELVES.

AND SOMETIMES IN MY CASE, I WAS DISCIPLINED FOR SOMETHING THAT I DIDN´T DO.

[ INAUDIBLE ] SO I CARRIED THAT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

[ INAUDIBLE ] OBVIOUSLY THESE THINGS ARE [ INAUDIBLE ].

SO THAT IN ITSELF, THAT EXPERIENCE LENDS ITSELF TO A LOT OF RESENTMENT.

AND I CAN GET OVER THAT, BUT AS A KID YOU STARTED TO SEE, OH, SOMETHING ISN´T RIGHT, LOOK AT THOSE KIDS.

SO I THINK GOING BACK TO WHAT ANNA WAS SAYING, YOU´VE REALLY GOT TO TAKE THIS UP AND HAVE A COMMUNICATION WITH A CHILD TO MAKE SURE.

AND I WAS IN A UNIQUE POSITION, [ INAUDIBLE ] I HAD TWO KIDS [ INAUDIBLE ] AND ONE WASN´T.

ABLE TO COME HERE [ INAUDIBLE ] GROWING UP.

AND THAT GAVE ME A LOT OF PAUSE AS TO HOW I SHOULD CONDUCT MYSELF WITH THEM.

[ INAUDIBLE ] SHE WAS VERY CHALLENGING, SHE WAS VERY STUBBORN, YOU KNOW.

BUT I LEARNED A LOT OF ADAPTATIONS DEALING WITH MY SON.

I THINK IF YOU CAN TRANSLATE THAT TO YOUR KIDS, WHEN THEY GO OUT IN THE AGE GROUP, AND PARENTS HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING -- >> DEE, I´M INTRIGUED, AND I ADMIT I DIDN´T KNOW THIS, THAT THE COMMUNITY FOUNDATION HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF THIS ISSUE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

HOW HAVE YOU SEEN, IF AT ALL, ANY PROGRESS BEING MADE IN OUR COMMUNITY?

OR HAS IT BEEN A STAGNANT RESPONSE?

WHAT HAS BEEN THE FEEDBACK YOU´VE RECEIVED?

I KNOW YOU DID AN OP-ED PIECE.

WHAT HAS BEEN THE RESPONSE?

WHAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, REACTION HAVE YOU RECEIVED?

OR THE FOUNDATION HAS RECEIVED?

>> WHEN IT APPEARED THERE WAS POLICY BEING PROPOSED THAT WAS GOING TO FINALLY CHANGE THE ALLOWANCE OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IN SCHOOLS, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE ISSUED WAS AN OP-ED, VERY THOUGHTFULLY RESEARCHED.

I THINK ACTUALLY SHE WENT INTO HER HEAD AND WROTE ALL THAT SHE ALREADY KNEW AND PROVIDED THAT IN THE OP-ED.

WE WERE VERY ENCOURAGED BY THE COMMITTEE´S RESPONSE TO THE BILL.

SO WHEN I GOT UP ON SEPTEMBER 29th, I REMEMBER IT WAS A SUNDAY, AND READ THAT THE BILL HAD NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL, I WAS TAKEN ABACK.

I REALLY -- I GUESS I WOULD HAVE SAID THAT I FELT WE HAD MADE MORE PROGRESS ALONG THESE LINES THAN WE ACTUALLY HAD MADE.

IN MY THINKING ABOUT IT, AND I THINK IT´S SOMEWHAT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE COMMUNITY FOUNDATION IS THINKING ABOUT IT, IT´S A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING.

WHEN THIS CONVERSATION HAPPENS, THERE´S A LOT OF A DEFENSIVE REACTION FROM PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT ANNA REFERENCED EARLIER.

IT WAS OKAY FOR ME, I TURNED OUT OKAY.

AND IT´S REALLY NOT ABOUT CHALLENGING THOSE THINGS.

IT´S PURELY ABOUT ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THINGS EVOLVE.

WE KNOW SO MUCH MORE.

HUMANITY IS MOVING AHEAD.

IT´S NOT AN INDICTMENT OF PARENTS OR OF TEACHERS OR HOW THEY WERE THINKING.

IT´S ALSO AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF AS WE MOVE AHEAD AS SOCIETY, WANTING TO TREAT OUR CHILDREN MORE LOVINGLY, ADDRESSING WHAT COMES UP ABOUT DIFFERENT CHILDREN ARE EASIER TO LOVE THAN OTHER CHILDREN.

WE NEED TO FIND WAYS TO LOVE THEM ALL IN INDIVIDUAL WAYS.

TO PROVIDE FOR CARETAKERS.

THAT´S CERTAINLY TEACHERS.

IT´S ALSO PARENTS.

I THINK SOMETIMES WE´RE A SMALL COMMUNITY, SO WE´RE OUT SHOPPING, WE SEE A PARENT WHO´S REALLY AT THE END OF THEIR WITS WITH THEIR CHILD.

AND INSTEAD OF CRITICIZING A PARENT, PERHAPS WE COULD DO SOMETHING WHICH WOULD ALLEVIATE ALL THAT PARENT HAS GOING ON AT THE MOMENT.

HELPING THEM TAKE THEIR GROCERIES TO THE CAR.

IT´S KIND OF LIKE, IF WE ALL WANT THIS FOR OUR CHILDREN, THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN ALL PARTICIPATE IN HELPING PARENTS, HELPING TEACHERS, HELPING THOSE WHO ARE CARETAKING FOR OUR CHILDREN.

>> I LIKE THOSE SUGGESTIONS.

I LIKE HOW YOU PHRASED IT AS A SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUE.

HAS THAT HAD MUCH IN THE WAY OF CREATING A BETTER APPRECIATION FOR THE WHOLE TOPIC OF CORPORATE PUNISHMENT?

OR WE´RE STILL IN THE EARLY STAGES OF CHANGING HEARTS AND MINDS, SO TO SPEAK IN THAT REGARD?

>> I HOPE WE´RE NOT IN THE EARLY STAGES BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS ISSUE RESOLVED IN OUR COMMUNITY SOONER AS OPPOSED TO LATER.

I WOULD SAY ONE OF THE FOUNDATION´S COMMITMENTS IN SEEING THIS WAS NOT A SUCCESSFUL UNDERTAKING IS TO DETERMINE A WAY FORWARD IN EDUCATION, COMMUNICATION, CONVERSATION.

BECAUSE IT REALLY FEELS I THINK TO SO MANY OF US, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RESPONSES THAT HAVE COME FROM SOME OF THE COMMUNITY LEADERS, THE BOARD OF EDUCATION IS IN FAVOR OF CHANGING THIS.

THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION IS IN FAVOR OF CHANGING IT.

UVI.

YOU CERTAINLY ARE.

FDI CERTAINLY IS.

THERE´S A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT BELIEVE THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE.

AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO HOPE THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE SHORT-TERM.

AND FROM THE FDI´S PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE INTENTIONALLY LOOKING AT HOW BEST TO DELIVER THIS MESSAGE TO OUR COMMUNITY SO THAT THE COMMUNITY IS COMFORTABLE WITH IT, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN SUPPORT IT AND RECOGNIZE IT´S NOT AN INDICTMENT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST, IT´S AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THINGS FOR OUR CHILDREN WHO ARE JUST WONDERFUL YOUNG PEOPLE THAT WE´VE BEEN ENTRUSTED WITH.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

GOOD POINT.

AND I APPRECIATE IT, ANNA, WHAT YOU SAID, WHETHER IT´S A CULTURAL THING.

I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INTRIGUED ME WAS THAT A NUMBER OF CARIBBEAN CULTURES HAVE -- DON´T HAVE CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IN THE SCHOOL SETTING.

BELIZE, EL SALVADOR, CUBA, HAITI.

SO I´M THINKING, OKAY.

WHERE´S THE ISLANDS IN THIS?

I WAS TAKEN ABACK WHEN 12 OF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS WERE IN SUPPORT OF THIS.

I THINK THAT´S WHAT DROVE ME PERSONALLY OVER THE EDGE AND WHY I THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE MORE ENGAGED IN.

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

>> I WOULD JUST LOVE TO TOUCH ON THAT POINT.

JUST DIG INTO THE SOCIAL JUSTICE PIECE A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK IT´S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND FROM A U.S. PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE JOINING MANY OF THE SOUTHERN STATES WHERE WE SEE THAT BLACK STUDENTS AND STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES ARE THOSE THAT ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED BY CORPORAL PUNISHMENT.

AND I WOULD ASK US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT STATISTIC AND ASK OURSELVES, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR US?

WHAT DOES THAT TELL US ABOUT THIS PRACTICE?

I ALSO THINK, AND THIS MIGHT BE AN UNPOPULAR OPINION BUT THAT´S OKAY WITH ME -- I WOULD REALLY CALL ON OUR FAITH COMMUNITY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE STATEMENTS THAT WERE MADE IN THOSE HEARINGS.

UNPACK WHAT IT MEANS THAT WE ARE REFERENCING BIBLE PASSAGES AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR HARMING CHILDREN.

>> RIGHT.

>> I REALLY FEEL LIKE IT´S -- I WOULD REALLY CALL ON THE FAITH COMMUNITY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT, AND TO SEE IF THERE ARE WAYS THAT THAT CONVERSATION CAN BE SHIFTED.

>> I´M INTRIGUED.

IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD TAKE PLACE IN A VIRTUAL TOWN HALL, TO BE COVID -- YOU KNOW, I REALLY WOULD.

ANGUS, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK YOU NEED TO DO A LOT OF THAT.

THERE´S CERTAINLY A LOT OF COMMUNICATION NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

IN TERMS OF PARENTING, I THINK IN MANY INSTANCES PARENTS LEAVE A LOT OF THAT PARENTING TO THE TEACHERS.

SOME OF THE TEACHERS ARE NOT TRAINED TO DO IT, SOME OF THEM ARE NOT PATIENT WITH THE KIDS.

I CERTAINLY, FROM A PARENT´S PERSPECTIVE, NOT KNOWING AT THE TIME MY SON WAS DIAGNOSED WITH AUTISM, THAT HE WAS JUST BEING BAD, CRYING OR ANGER OR JUMPING ALL OVER THE PLACE.

2 YEARS OLD.

NOT KNOWING WHAT THE DIAGNOSIS WAS AT THE TIME, THAT WAS MY PERSPECTIVE OF LOOKING AT IT, HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED, YOU KNOW, HE SHOULD TAKE DISCIPLINARY ACTION TO CORRECT HIS BEHAVIOR.

AND SO THERE´S A LOT OF COMMUNICATION THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

AND A LOT OF EDUCATION.

AS A PARENT, I HAD TO DO THAT ON MY OWN, I HAD TO DO A LOT OF READING.

IT´S NOT JUST A MEDICAL PIECE THAT COMES IN.

AND THEN, AS I SAID BEFORE, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO WAS PERFECTLY FINE, SO I COULD MIRROR BEHAVIOR.

SOME PARENTS DON´T HAVE THAT.

SO A LOT OF EDUCATION, A LOT OF COMMUNICATION HAS TO OCCUR.

AND I THINK [ INAUDIBLE ] WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM.

IN THE COMMUNITY.

THEY NEED TO COME UP AND NEED TO HAVE UNITED VOICE IN TERMS OF HOW DO WE APPROACH CHILDREN, HOW DO WE APPROACH RAISING CHILDREN, NOT JUST IN ADVOCATING AS A PARENT, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING THAT CHILD AS A TEACHER.

HOW DO WE GET -- WHAT YOU HAVE NOW [ INAUDIBLE ].

SO YOU HAVE THAT DYNAMIC.

>> I´M CERTAINLY OPEN TO WHATEVER SUGGESTIONS MY COMMUNITY PARTNERS HAVE IN THIS REGARD, BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT, AGAIN, BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION THAT WE´RE IN RIGHT NOW WITH COVID-19 AND PEOPLE ARE CERTAINLY UNDER STRESS, I REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE WAS A HURRICANE, MY HUSBAND AND I WERE IN ESSENCE IN A ROOM WITH OUR TWO YOUNG CHILDREN, I WAS READY TO PULL MY HAIR OUT THEN, AND THAT WAS JUST AFTER A HURRICANE.

IT WAS NOT AS LONG-TERM AS THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

I WOULD BE OPEN TO WHATEVER SUGGESTIONS WE CAN WAGE IN THIS REGARD.

I WAS STRUCK BY THE NUMBER OF ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO WERE IN SUPPORT OF IT.

I THINK THAT WAS THE MOST TROUBLING TO ME.

SO DEE, WHERE CAN WE MAKE SOME ADVANCES HERE?

WHAT´S YOUR TAKE?

>> ELECTED OFFICIALS RESPOND TO THEIR VOTING POPULATION.

SO IF WE ARE ABLE TO REALLY HAVE GOOD CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR COMMUNITY, I WOULD EXPECT OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS WOULD FOLLOW THE MANDATE FROM OUR COMMUNITY.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO, IT SHOULD BE A MANDATE.

BECAUSE THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TREATMENT FOR CHILDREN WHO WE ARE CONSTANTLY TREASURING.

IF WE WANT THEM TO CONTINUE TO GROW AND BECOME SOME OF THOSE WONDERFUL PEOPLE THAT WE´VE HAD IN THE PAST, WE´RE RESPONSIBLE FOR SEEING THAT THEY HAVE A NURTURING ENVIRONMENT.

>> RIGHT.

ANNA, YOU SAID IN YOUR OP-ED PIECE THAT THE CORPORAL PUNISHMENT ARGUABLY CAN BE CONNECTED TO A LEGACY OF SLAVERY.

WHERE HUMAN BEINGS WERE NOT HUMAN BEINGS, THEY WERE TREATED AS PROPERTY, AND THAT WAS PERMISSIBLE.

AND THAT WE ARE AS A COMMUNITY UNWITTINGLY CONTINUING THAT PRACTICE.

WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR RESEARCH IN THAT REGARD, OR HOW DID YOU COME TO THAT DETERMINATION?

>> I THINK, AGAIN, TO PLACE THAT IN HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL PERSPECTIVE, WE DO SEE THERE ARE HIGHER RATES OF USE OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AMONG FAMILIES OF COLOR, BLACK FAMILIES IN PARTICULAR.

THAT´S REALLY WHAT PIQUED MY INTEREST.

WHAT YOU SEE WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THAT, MANY PEOPLE ASSOCIATE THAT WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF ENSLAVED PEOPLE TAKING ON SOME OF THE PRACTICE OF THEIR ENSLAVERS.

IN SOME CASES, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, GOING WAY BACK TO KEEP THEIR KIDS IN LINE FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY.

IN OTHER CASES IT MAY JUST HAVE BEEN WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING, YOU PICK IT UP.

I KNOW THAT BOTH OF US REFERENCE IN OUR OP-ED PIECES THAT IF WE WENT FURTHER BACK AND WE LOOKED AT AFRICAN CULTURE AND AFRICAN TRADITIONS, IT´S UNLIKELY THAT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PRACTICES THAT WERE VERY COMMONPLACE HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO, BECAUSE CHILDREN WERE VERY WELL RESPECTED IN THOSE CULTURES.

FOR ME, I FEEL PART OF THE CONVERSATION IS TO BE -- WHEN WE´RE TALKING ABOUT OUR CULTURE, WHAT ARE WE REALLY REFERRING TO?

ARE WE REFERRING TO THINGS THAT WE PICKED UP DURING THE TIME PERIOD OF BEING ENSLAVED?

ARE WE REFERRING TO THINGS THAT GO BACK EVEN FURTHER TO THAT, TO TRUE TRADITIONS AND CULTURAL CUSTOMS?

I WOULD PREFER THE LATTER.

I FEEL HAVING A CONVERSATION AROUND THAT WOULD ALSO HELP US TO UNTANGLE, AGAIN, THAT PIECE OF USING SCRIPTURES AND OTHER FAITH-BASED MESSAGES TO PROMOTE SOMETHING OR CONDONE SOMETHING THAT REALLY DOESN´T ALIGN WITH HOW I THINK WE WANT TO SEE OURSELVES AS A COMMUNITY.

>> RIGHT, RIGHT.

HOW DO YOU ENVISION -- WHAT WOULD YOU ENVISION?

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR IDEAL VIEW, IF WE CAN GET PAST THIS SITUATION THAT WE ARE IN NOW?

WHAT WOULD BE A WAY OF, I DON´T KNOW, WHAT WOULD BE GOOD PRACTICE?

GOOD PRACTICE FOR PARENTS OR TEACHERS WHO ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE IT´S BEEN A CHALLENGE TO TAKE CARE OF A YOUNGSTER WHO PRESENTS, AS WE MIGHT SAY, CHALLENGING BEHAVIORS?

>> IT TURNS INTO A QUESTION, BUT I THINK I´M GOING TO FOCUS ON THE CONSCIOUSNESS WORD AGAIN.

AND CONSCIOUS DISCIPLINE IS ACTUALLY A SPECIFIC FORM OF DISCIPLINE.

AND IT´S WHERE YOU ARE INTENTIONAL ABOUT WHAT YOU´RE GOING TO DO.

AND THAT´S FROM THE OUTSET.

SO YOU SHOULD BE THINKING AS A PARENT ABOUT YOUR DISCIPLINE PRACTICES WHILE YOUR CHILD IS STILL IN THE WOMB.

WE KNOW THAT STARTING EARLY WITH PARENT EDUCATION, PARENT INFORMATION, IS CRITICAL.

WE KNOW TO DEE´S POINT THAT HAVING COMMUNITY SUPPORT IS CRITICAL.

IF EVERYONE IS LOOKING AROUND AND FEELING LIKE, WELL, IN THIS CULTURE, WE BEAT OUR CHILDREN.

IN THIS CULTURE, WE USE PHYSICAL DISCIPLINE TO KEEP OUR KIDS IN LINE BECAUSE THEY NEED TO KNOW WE ARE THE ONES IN CHARGE, AND KIDS SHOULD BE SEEN AND NOT HEARD.

I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHERE THAT STEMS FROM, WHAT´S THE MEANING, WHY IS THAT THE APPROACH WE HAVE TAKEN AS A SOCIETY?

REALLY START BIG HAVING A CONVERSATION AND TRYING TO RAISE CONSCIOUSNESS ABOUT WHAT PARENTING IS, HOW WE VALUE CHILDREN IN THIS SOCIETY, HOW WE SEE THE AFTEREFFECTS IN SOCIETY AND CULTURE WHERE VIOLENCE AND AGGRESSION ARE NORMALIZED.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE´RE NORMALIZING VIOLENCE.

THEN WE END UP WITH OUTRAGEOUS MURDER RATES AND RATES OF GUN VIOLENCE AND WONDER HOW WE ENDED UP HERE.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

THANK YOU ALL.

THIS HAS BEEN A VERY TERRIFIC CONVERSATION.

HOPE TO CONTINUE IT.

I WANT TO THANK ANNA, ANGUS, AND DEE.