time, for your career, for giving us a voice.

You are a you're you're really giving people a voice.

Kurt I can't you so much for listening or for watching I should say.

Hopefully both take care and be safe.

Buh bye.

thank you enough.

I want to thank you so much for your national treasure and so appreciate you.

Folks, thank went to law school in the dark ages they didn't they didn't so to speak.

To make sure you know that despite what your now that sometimes even when you don't win people individuals should have in order to be their own advocates them and and and got their case guard maybe didn't win.

Maybe you can give them that voice sometimes they're as as pleased that you gave them a voice that you you represented pretty much corporate law, you know, trust in the state of particularly people with disabilities are just very my you know I I've learned into representing clients and now listen to them I mean it's always about listening I-one of going back to New York City to be a corporate lawyer the the have a disability and I don't come from that world and they decide to spend your career doing this.

Right and it.

Well mostly a tour of people on on on assistance and then I ended things and making things work so we watched it account and called the the protection and advocacy for people with teach anything about disability or even social justice.

It was course and so, I got lucky that I got spot off into the legal I guess being in a law school would certainly help because way I was trained and Uh spent a year at Baltimore Legal Aid went from legal aid about five or six years there representing great to be able to remind these newer attorneys that Rights Project.

Yes I mean and I'm a good example.

Um when I work school that this is just really great work and really and said, oh my god, I didn't even know this kind of work having a very different experience than you have and know that for example you know dear colleague of ours Jim they're like okay I will and I think maybe they were right.

that whole you know body of of law.

I was just very fortunate.

people died.

You know, so many of the people who died and and I got a school at Cornell and took the New York Bar and was got a lot of students that way to work at you know Texas Civil disability is are are sexy and and interesting and would be a That's fabulous.

I didn't know that about you, Greg.

Cuz I they weren't eligible for that particular service.

Um I think challenge right now as many people do really you know notoriously not great salary jobs.

So, trying to encourage the state of Maryland on and neglected children and then hey, you have to really think about how we provide evacuation do, you know, from here on out.

Well, I love talking about this challenge to to deal with.

Um I mean just like Hurricane but maybe teaching a law school class on disability.

Um trying and they offered me a job at the end and I never left.

Wow.

this is haven't experienced this.

This is pretty horrible and also very meaningful.

What got you into legal services or good use of their legal skills to to pursue and we have a big there's a very robust legal theory in the in the disability with disabilities don't get nothing hard.

Right.

Well, you settlements for some kind of a court master or monitor.

I going to go back to New York where I I've gone to New York.

Harrington had the benefit of teaching at U Texas Austin and work not full time and I've been talking to some people but ability to transition?

Well a friend of mine had once said it take an expose of conditions at mental hospitals and turn that challenge.

You know, we're we're non-profits and they are and and and resources in disasters for people to spend.

risk but I don't see you resting for very long.

Um what I it it was interesting to try to figure out how we could do that population.

Right right.

Well how okay going back to the much understands unfortunately that there's a lot of animosity and then works to make sure that it's it's it's reaching So, we've had, you know, this is not my first plague if you country you know this difficult time and making sure that that almost all of those efforts over these last 20 years and asking for make sense.

It's doable and and should not be the Baltimore Legal Avior for one year.

And then I was and the individual cases to to to demonstrate that what we're that that disability was in the class.

That's one of the things the Covid experience as hopefully just yet another left behind and all that.

So that was a challenge and it's Hurricane Katrina.

We learned back then that people with national work.

So, I was very active in the passage of the challenges that I think we all had to adjust to but it it was safety, a you know, housing, education, employment, right.

midst of the pandemic.

How how has that affected you know your pandemic and you know where you are in your you know career.

so COVID was a you know yet another one of those unexpected us.

So that's been I've been very lucky to be involved in membership they have people with disabilities and they need Volunteers and Service to America and they assigned me to grateful for that as they are like to win at least you know And the rest is history.

Just with the few minutes we have towards certain groups and we were very make sure that people the fact that there are other people out there that are that's an important lesson that that people need a voice and if background is and what your issues are to really be open to new administration on the policing executive order making to be you know thinking about being in coalition with all of services world.

So, I'd love to be able now and things are left Kurt.

What are some qualities and skills that intellectual disabilities and I literally said well I'm I don't said we don't care.

Um you have a reputation for make building they called someone called and said hey there's this new thing the 32nd anniversary of that incredible experience.

Great that it's implemented properly.

So you're never you're never up morphing into a child abuse program and ran a program for I ended up when I left law school I joined Vista.

existed.

I didn't know I could make this kind of contribution work for this wonderful network but also be part of some of the world and they're very exciting issues, very challenging and Americans with disabilities act.

We're going to celebrate know, disability-specific clinics but I think it would be meaningful and gives you a great sense of reward if you better now and lots of law schools have clinics and you then you could act as a I forgot what the word is but I younger people coming up through law school and social recruiting good people to work in the PNAs making and good minority people to work in the in the PNA and so it's a real think that would be kind of interesting.

You know, episodic their staff.

Uh I'd be available for that.

Um I'm Justice about seeing there's a role for in any of their certainly interested.

I've I've been talking to Department of to make sure younger and newer attorneys are thinking that the any of the agencies Want me to come and give some history to but let's try to figure out how we can make sure that people program as you can tell.

So, if there's anybody out there, any will and and so it was I tried to see that and said, alright, emergency preparedness people, the Red Cross, Fema to say, so we got very involved in working with all of the are some things that you kind of formulate that you'd like to know, you're going to though I know to have some much needed disabilities were the ones who didn't get out of their houses, into something positive.

Uh same thing.

So I sort of saw it was a challenge you know just like you know trying to as I said earlier that people with disabilities didn't get our work.

How we could support our members throughout the director could possibly have.

Um good, bad, and different and occurred.

You've had every experience an executive ending but you know let's say suspending your career in the How has the ending your career or I would I wouldn't say disability component.

Whether it's airlines or Amtrak or fire There's a disability connection there that has to be identified and that this population has to be included in every decision.

again using the the power of our network and this and the intersectionality and diversity they realize that within their It really isn't any aspect of our society where there isn't a working with the other our our our partners in the civil of disabilities.

So always trying to make sure that and in rights community to make sure that that when we talk about some police departments, some police men, women don't understand how to work with a person with a disability and make some pretty bad decisions.

They face with different types sure that Disability was in there because unfortunately that I spent a lot of my time doing.

Just worked with the the included in the federal hate crime statute.

Everyone pretty done.

Um I was able to make sure that disability was of?

Well, I've been extremely lucky in terms of being able to thing but as I said before, today, we have to make sure What are what are some of the things that you are most proud seeing on the community.

Here are real people who are then they cannot only hopefully help those individuals but they you figure that out.

But you can't ignore it and you can't people do have I think a diagnosis of mental illness and the state to other you know department education, foresee as something that you know PNAs can do to be individual cases.

They have the facts.

They know what is going then get them into you know good, affordable, safe housing.

effective in that regard?

Well, what I've think is so wonderful well.

Right.

Right.

There was some expression I I forgot.

I you know make policy for NDRN obviously but what do you and to Trying to make sure that there is you know the services something along the lines of being part of something is to make sure those things happen.

Right.

Right.

So that's there's a homeless issue and unfortunately many of those increased in the district.

I mean I'm I was surprised that advocacy group could how can as an organization or as an not And good transportation and there's good health care and neighborhoods and so.

Right.

Yeah.

We really have to make to dance.

That is a great that but I think that's a terrific challenge.

Right.

Sometimes you can take people out of a big people to the disability world and so hopefully there's is their clientele and they ought to make their services you know our population is aging and with age comes more They're out in the streets.

And I'm told that that's really advocacy in the US?

Well, I think it's very hopeful.

I and gun violence.

You know, we're constantly adding more companies everyone really needs to be thinking about that this and so there's always you know reluctance in some parts of disability and people with disabilities are living longer disability but then create a protection and advocacy program statutes granting rights and services of people with tell us.

We don't know what we're talking about because we fact when when Congress was trying to revamp the voting talked about providing advocacy assistance to persons with America to get a dedicated funding for people with What other kinds of programs has the protection advocacy you there and provide them with the kinds of resources, training, skills that they need to do their work.

Right.

Now you is probably not a fair question Kurt but what are some of the we are dealing with thousands of individual cases throughout please expand the rights and services to people with know accomplished or achieved through your efforts over the an empty promise.

It's a it's a wonderful plaque on someone's Right right.

What do you foresee that the protection the community but we really have to make it sure it's safe meeting back in early June where we could build skill analogy.

That's right.

Just you know, just plopping people out and so we learned a lesson from that but we've now morphed into system isn't really equipped to get people, you know, around the the the society.

Uh the housing stock is terrible and there in the community and then you find out our transportation fortunately, with the horrible housing crisis, all the people go to a hotel across the country and so ironically we disabilities.

If you don't have a group like the protection our own homes.

We have to make sure that people with building and more intensive kinds of training.

So I think you know so unfortunately in every major city I think there sadly a number of people who are not living in a home.

not living up to that that that challenge the way we should.

monitor the community and make those places are safe.

Right.

segregate hidden away you know where so many people have been the programs have two or 3 00 staff.

So they really couldn't monitored with the institutions.

Now we have to the country can really pinpoint what's not working.

Right.

This Congress to fund the programs fully so that people can really this is where the protection and advocate program is having the country filed complaints with the Department of Health and powerful about our network, the the individual agencies those people.

Excuse me.

So about 13 of the programs around can take that information up to policy to the legislature in constantly watching whether those rights and services are sure that we are, you know, I believe strongly potential of experiencing this problem.

You need to fix it.

Now let us help feeding up at NDRN is as I said before, they have the people with disabilities and as we often say, this is the one It's an incredible challenge and unfortunately I think we're to be helped with that that program or or or set of rights protection and advocacy program that would enforce that right people with disabilities have the right to vote privately because what we've learned Amelia and you probably know mean I'm sure I'm going to quote it incorrectly but being invited to the party but being included is being asked with disabilities are placed in some very, very unsafe all the things that we sort of take for granted by living in we work very closely with the brain brain injury society of in and actually get two things done.

One, really mandate that came out whole COVID experience that we can figure out more be part of American society in a meaningful way.

Now that's a a track to get people out of those big institutions ended up reaching a lot more of our staff throughout the the both.

We've had a virtual sessions now to try to reach as interesting enough as our network has grown there some of and their programs fully accessible and I think we're on a lot of activity.

Absolutely.

And you the organization, the services and benefits and any new therapies that are out thanks to science and medical treatment and so industries Department of Mental Health and say hey this is what we're highlights that you would see or that you've experienced?

minority group you can join and unfortunately at any moment.

on in the community, what's not working, what is working, and available to help them deal first with their disability but suddenly found themselves now part of the disability benefits of that.

Right well what I'm seeing you know is community unexpectedly certainly with car crashes and Right.

Hope is a good example of people who you know, and quality and people are really getting the the the think people are now aware that there's this huge population of for a while.

What do you see as the future of disability rights disabilities have access to those kinds of services as institution but if you put them in a not very good place in the community you really haven't done them any favors.

So again for for decades and get them out into into the community and what's in the Crystal Bowl but you know you've been at this take advantage of that but I I think people are realizing that been a nice pairing of you know issues quite honestly.

What do actually get them.

So we do both.

We go to Congress and say making its way down to the individual.

Um it's just a it's there's an awareness of that.

Uh services can be expensive you see and this is probably not fair to ask you about this.

We've we've passed Americans with Disabilities Act advocacy on the ground in every state and territory that is instead of the IDEA.

Um wonderful wonderful federal laws through the Help America Vote Act, we could we could run independently and then we convinced them to have a but it doesn't mean the individuals who were supposed traumatic brain injury but then we also took advantage of the presentations and then we just had our first in-person annual we're learning that you know there are some a benefit that innovative ways of of reaching the the ever growing staff out years.

Well, sometimes we're going after a population.

So, intellectual disabilities, persons with mental illness.

country through the the virtual meeting.

Now what we've done is many people as possible with very you know didactic to use Zoom and teams and all the other things.

Um I mean even come to a face to face meeting.

It's very expensive to and Human Service to say you cannot treat people with conferences and such.

How were you able to navigate that?

That there.

So it was it would require a lot of vigilance and was nice.

I think a great question.

We became pretty adept at doing virtual programs that we certainly learned how network does a good bit of training and outreach and value of certain people and should we really spend money on make sure that people with disabilities were not excluded.

living.

So it's been an incredible challenge.

And to sure that we could see the conditions that people were started talking about rationing of care and thinking about the disabilities differently there should be entitled all the In the very early days of COVID there was a lot of states that through the halls of the facility to make try to make folks.

Right.

So we had a couple of years where we had to But we couldn't go.

We weren't allowed in.

We didn't want to nursing homes.

Right.

Uh where so many people with institutions and so really you know try to find out to make what was happening to people in congregate facilities like we're doing.

Look who we're helping.

Look at these terrible sure that those facilities were getting the PPE and all the and so you know and the good news is those 57 programs.

They Everybody should have that right and and that that access out the conditions that people were living in.

It's not ideal programs who got very creative on how to monitor how to find all.

No but I will say this.

It was it was a good it was easy To fight some efforts to try to take it away and then we also biggest problem for us is that as I said we we have to go out very concerned about what were going on in the other large to charge the services but who pays for it.

So it's it's a base program.

Again, in every state and territory and so now and test of time.

Well no and and in large part thanks to you seventy-nine.

That was my first introduction to the disability but literally used computers, tablets, laptops.

We had one people with intellectual disabilities added for people was another expose of of conditions in mental hospital.

let these guys in so they can check on what's going on.

So, Washington to make sure that we were still funded and and do things virtually.

I I have to say I was very proud of our today, I'm happy to say that all these programs have nine still hard work.

We're not going to take that away from program to sell because it makes so much sense.

Uh make school have access to legally Based advocacy services.

could bring any kind of a legal case including class action.

disabilities were housed and ended up dying and then we were with mental illness.

So we've done that now eight times where other things and then of course it it morphed into access to national association.

Basically to have representation in were given access authority and if you think about it, in order and see the individual.

We had to go into those facilities.

level, you know, Congress is an interesting animal in terms of you, Kurt.

I don't care.

How has this COVID-19 pandemic programs were doing and go back to congress and say, look what a great idea.

Why don't you add a program that we have now for walking through the halls of congress to say, hey, there's congregate facilities, juvenile facilities, other kinds of had a pretty easy sell.

Well, no.

I mean, yeah.

I mean, it's easy then to take the work that all of your programs, these this great program and remember, this program was was in Baltimore, Maryland, just pretty close and started vaccines when those came on the scene.

Um the other but the bring in Covid to them and they didn't want to give it to our the halls of congress because that's not an easy easy gig at program gets access to federal funding.

And as I said which is very isolated, very hard to reach.

Um it was very have 57 because we created a program for the in the and your you know ability to be such an effective advocate in different funding sources from congress but into one agency Organization with a background of legal services and an issue gotta help us.

You gotta help us utilize this really strong, basically warehouse.

Congress responded to that expose and like the Virgin Islands PNA so that the person with the how to get things through but I had a good product.

I had a I disability every time there was a scandal in the mid 80s there sure that all people with disabilities wherever they somebody watching out for us we could easily disappear because their issue is, they can sort of one-stop shopping for the program that put a a laptop on a journey.

It just rode it is to talk to congress about this concept of program and pretty interesting concept that's really stood the taste disabilities.

You know, this is it's an important population dramatically.

First of all, we were initially incredibly about Right.

We would we would go to Congress and say hey we've got facilities which at that time were all over the There's we've disability doesn't have to worry about their label, what disabilities were coming into our offices saying, you've what we realized as we started moving through is that well why is this program limited to just people with intellectual originally created just for people with intellectual This was a gigantic institution for people with intellectual powerful law.

So, right from the very beginning, the closed a lot of those since then but there's still some institution in the world and it was pretty horrible, man.

He there was a bill in Congress that was dealing with journey and frankly we took every opportunity every time Maryland affiliate the Maryland Protection Advocacy in nineteen Southwest specifically for the Native American population person with disability and the agency has to figure out where people with disabilities.

Right.

So, we began this we have created additional Programs, add them to the the neglect and also special education.

Hmm, okay.

So, you long time.

I probably know I I I became the director of the So I along with some of my colleagues created this living in, the fact they had no access to treatment and we just situations that people need some assistance.

So, on one national what Association for Protection and Advocacy but a fairly small population given the the large universe of great, Amelia.

So good to see you again.

It's so good to see to be able to get in and so Congress said that you gotta but I started to do in Washington in the early 80s to impacted your work?

Well, unfortunately, quite quite live, wherever they reside, wherever they work or go to still left and so this new little program got created in So, just as we were coming into existence, parents of kids with exposed the really dreadful conditions that folks were to go to investigate abuse and neglect in facilities, you had Happy to say 40 years later, we still have that.

Right.

Right.

that the Special Education Law IDEA the Individual powers by congress.

Uh we had full legal authority.

So, we into being.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Well, back in created.

So and then I became sort of their part-time initially to investigate abuse and neglect in large congregate and when I got to the Maryland Protection and Advocacy System System I had called my colleagues and said do we have federally funded and federally created and if there isn't kids with just a right to a free and appropriate education.

because I think first of all, a lot of people still don't know executive director of the National Disabilities Rights created?

Well I had come from another set of organ programs intellectual disabilities began doing both vet abuse and started off with the Maryland Protection Advocacy the disability community since whoo.

Shall we say?

It's been a Network, Kurt Decker.

Good day, Kurt Decker.

How are you?

I'm a national group in Washington?

We're representing us.

We're The two of us.

Islands the mid 70s, Geralda Rivera, the the journalist, sometimes a near and dear to my heart as well.

And then there was this soon after we came into being the Reagan administration came into power and they were pretty adverse to government programs.

Hedley Lamont of the Disability Rights Center of the Virgin Protection Absy program created mostly for people with Systems.

How did that come into being and why was it even created this concept of a protection and advocacy system the late seventies.

It's a comprehensive program every institutions.

But we came into being right at the same time initially was really focusing on abuse and neglected large state and territory like the Virgin Islands.

Right.

Uh as a disabilities.

Right.

We were given some very wonderful journalist, did a big expose on the Willowbrook State Hospital.

disabilities, almost set thousand people, the largest Disabilities Education Act came into being which gives a all what a protection and advocacy organization is, how it came consultant running over to Washington's because my office to learn about the issues and and especially some of the world and to the issues affecting people with legal issues that that were impacting on people with disabilities and I came out of a legal services background.

disabilities.

Excellent.

Well, let's let's talk about that So, this was quite a change but also very exciting when I sorry you too and congratulations.

I know we have a big life change, future but let's talk about all the great work you've done for career change, and I'm looking forward to hearing about your Islands and today we are so excited to have with us the