>> ABORTION BANS AND MEDICAL EMERGENCIES.

CAMPUS SPEECH CODES AND QUESTIONS ABOUT GENOCIDE.

AND IS ANTI-ZIONISM THE SAME AS ANTI-SEMITISM?

STAY TUNED FOR IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

ON THE PANEL TONIGHT ARE SARAH PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, BEN BAUGHMAN FROM GANNON UNIVERSITY, AND LUKE PERRY AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT THIS WEEK REVERSED A LOWER COURT RULING THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED A WOMAN TO GET AN ABORTION BECAUSE OF A MEDICAL EMERGENCY.

BY THAT POINT, 31-YEAR OLD KATE COX HAD ALREADY TRAVELED OUT OF STATE FOR THE PROCEDURE.

TEXAS AND MANY OTHER STATES PASSED BANS OR STRICTLY LIMITED ABORTION AFTER ROE V WADE WAS OVERTURNED.

IN KENTUCKY, ANOTHER WOMAN WITH AN UNVIABLE FETUS IS SUING OVER THAT STATE'S BAN.

ARE THESE RESTRICTIONS AND THE INCREASINGLY HARD LINE TAKEN BY ABORTION OPPONENTS A SIGN OF THINGS TO COME ON A NATIONAL LEVEL?

>> I THINK ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

IN AN ERA WHERE PREGNANT WOMEN HAVE ZERO REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS FOLLOWING ROE BEING OVERTURNED, WE'VE SEEN A NATIONAL BAN ON ABORTION BEING CONSIDERED BY CONGRESS.

I THINK THE LEGISLATIVE DYNAMICS ARE DIFFICULT TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

WHY?

BECAUSE PUBLIC OPINION NATIONALLY IS NOT ON THE SIDE OF THESE BANS OR THE LAWS LIKE WE SEE IN TEXAS.

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, INCLUDING MEN AND WOMEN, THINK ABORTION SHOULD BE LEGAL IN ALL OR SOME CASES.

AND SO YOU WOULD REALLY NEED REPUBLICAN CONTROL OF THE HOUSE WITH A WIDE MAJORITY, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK MODERATE REPUBLICANS WOULD GO WITH THIS.

AND YOU WOULD NEED A SUPER MAJORITY IN THE SENATE BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WOULD FILIBUSTER ANY LEGISLATION.

SO IT'S POSSIBLE BUT IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT AT THIS POINT IN TIME SEEING THAT MATERIALIZE.

>> WELL, I MEAN THAT MIGHT BE TRUE, ALTHOUGH I WOULD SAY THAT IF TRUMP GETS RE-ELECTED AND THE REPUBLICANS TAKE CONTROL OF CONGRESS, THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THEM TO PASS A NATIONAL BAN.

AND SO WE NEED TO BE REALLY, I THINK, WORRIED ABOUT THIS, AND EVEN IF THEY DON'T, WE SEE TONS OF RED STATES, RIGHT, ENACTING THESE SO CALLED HEART BEAT LAWS.

THESE REALLY HARSH LAWS.

AND WE WERE SORT OF PROMISED THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH EXCEPTIONS WRITTEN INTO THEM TO PROTECT THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

AND I THINK THIS RECENT CASE WITH KATEY COX SUGGESTS HOW REALLY UNWORKABLE THOSE LAWS ARE IN THOSE SO CALLED EXCEPTIONS.

SO THEY'RE WRITTEN VERY VAGUELY.

I THINK PURPOSEFULLY.

THE PUNISHMENTS ARE EXTREMELY HARSH ON DOCTORS SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE VERY UNWILLING TO MAKE THE CALL ON THEIR OWN AND KNOW THAT THEY'RE INTERPRETING THE LAW CORRECTLY.

THAT MEANS MORE AND MORE WOMEN ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GO UP BEFORE JUDGES.

AND FRANKLY, I FIND THAT INFURIATING, DANGEROUS, HUMILIATING TO HAVE TO ASK A JUDGE TO GET ESSENTIAL MEDICAL CARE THAT MIGHT PROTECT YOUR OWN HEALTH AND YOUR FERTILITY.

AND WE SHOULD ALL BE WORRIED ABOUT THAT.

>> THIS IS A PLAN EXAMPLE OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM AND INSURANCE COMPANIES DICTATING WHAT DOCTORS SHOULD BE DECIDING.

THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE WE ARE SPEAKING TO AND THERE IS A REASONABLE PORTION OF THE LAW THAT'S WRITTEN IN THAT IS MAKING IT DIFFICULT.

I DON'T BELIEVE SOMEBODY THAT IS IN CRISIS, LIKE Mrs. COX, SHOULD HAVE TO GO IN FRONT OF A JUDGE AND ASK WHAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF HER LIFE.

SO IF IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THIS REASONABLE PORTION VERSUS THE GOOD FAITH JUDGMENT, WHICH IS AT THE HEART OF THE ISSUE THAT THE SUPREME COURT IN TEXAS RULED ON, THEN WE NEED TO HAVE A PANEL OF MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS THAT CAN QUICKLY RAPIDLY AND ACCURATELY DETERMINE IF IT MEETS THAT STANDARD WHILE IT IS CURRENTLY LAW.

>> THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE I THINK THE REPUBLICANS PLAYING TO THEIR EXTREME BASE THAT COULD END UP WORKING AGAINST THEM.

WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN OHIO WHERE THEY BASICALLY CODIFIED RIGHT OF ABORTION AND AS LUKE SAID, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF THESE EXTREME RULES.

AND IN TEXAS, IT'S GETTING WORSE.

AMARILLO IS CONSIDERING A LAW THAT WOULD PREVENT, MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR THEIR RESIDENCE TO ACTUALLY TRAVEL OUTSIDE THE CITY IN ORDER TO GET ABORTION.

I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO PLAY THIS UP AS WE SAW IN THE POLLS EARLIER.

THE ONE ISSUE WHERE AMERICANS BELIEVE THAT BIDEN IS MORE IN LINE WITH THEIR VIEWS THAN TRUMP IS ON ISSUES LIKE ABORTION.

>> THE TEXAS LAW HAD THE EXEMPTION.

>> THESE EXEMPTIONS ARE NOT GENUINE.

AND YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE PAINTERAL NOTIFICATION LAWS WHERE THEY HAVE CIRCUIT BREAKERS WHERE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF PARENTS HARMING THEM, ARE ALL SET UP FOR THIS TO FAIL.

THIS IS ALL MEANT TO PREVENT ABORTIONS, IN MY VIEW, AT ANY COST.

>> SO IS THIS TO MAKE IT POLITICALLY PALATABLE BASICALLY TO MAKE PEOPLE, TO ALLOW PEOPLE FEEL THEY CAN...

SO THEY CAN ACCEPT IT.

>> THEY SAY THERE IS AN EXEMPTION SO PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY IN DANGER BUT AS TEXAS HAS SHOWN, THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO MAKE EXCEPTIONS.

>> THEY DON'T WANT TO BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID EXCEPTIONS WILL LEAD TO LOOPHOLES FOR ABORTION ON DEMAND.

SOME OF THE EXTREME ABORTION GROUPS WANT COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WOMEN'S REPRODUCTION.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE POLITICS OF ABORTION AND THAT'S IMPORTANT BUT THIS IS REALLY MERGE FOR A LOT OF WOMEN AND IT'S AN ISSUE OF AUTONOMY AND I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN WE ARE HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS.

>> IT'S NOT EVEN JUST THE STATES.

THE SUPREME COURT IS HEARING A CASE WHICH GOING TO HAVE RAMIFICATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> THAT'S THE 486, THE TWO-PART ABORTION BILL.

>> JUST REAL QUICK.

AT THE CORE OF THIS ISSUE IS WHEN LIFE HAS ACTUALLY BEGINNING FOR THE FETUS, FOR THE BABY.

IS IT AT CONCEPTION?

THAT'S WHERE THE COMMON GROUND IS VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND BETWEEN THESE DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS.

I DON'T AGREE WITH THE STANDPOINT THAT IT'S ALL SET UP TO FAIL.

BUT I DO THINK IT IS WAY OVER COMPLICATED FOR SOMEBODY THAT IS IN CRISIS AND THEIR MEDICAL DOCTOR HAS DETERMINED, BUT ARE BEING HELD-- THEY COULD GO TO PRISON IF IT'S NOT DEEMED WITHIN THE THREE LEVELS OF LAW FOR THEM TO HAVE AN ABORTION WITHIN THAT STATE.

>> AND THE DOCTORS COULD END UP GOING TO PRISON, TOO.

IN TEXAS, ITSELF ATTORNEY GENERAL ESSENTIALLY THREATEDDENNED THAT.

>> AND TO SARAH'S POINT.

REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS ARE UNDER ASSAULT LIKE IN OTHER TIME IN MODERN HISTORY AND DESERVES OUR ATTENTION.

TO YOUR POINT BEN, THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DON'T THINK OF A ZYGOTE OR FETUS IN EARLY STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT AND THINK THE ENTITY HOWEVER YOU DEFINE IT, SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS A BORN HUMAN BEING THAT IS HOUSING THAT ENTITY.

AND THAT'S WHY I THINK FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE THE POLICY THAT WE SEE IN TEXAS IS OUT OF STEP WITH WHERE MOST PEOPLE ARE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A MINORITY GROUP DICTATING A POLICY FOR A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE AND I DON'T SEE THAT SUSTAINABLE LONG-TERM >> FALLOUT CONTINUED THIS WEEK FROM THE TESTIMONY OF THREE COLLEGE PRESIDENTS AND THEIR LEGALISTIC ANSWERS TO NEW YORK CONGRESSWOMAN ELISE STEFANIK'S QUESTIONS ABOUT GENOCIDE.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA HAS RESIGNED AND THE OTHERS ARE UNDER PRESSURE TO FOLLOW.

THE WHOLE EPISODE HAS FOCUSED ATTENTION ON QUESTIONS OF CAMPUS SPEECH AND ACADEMIC FREEDOM.

WHERE IS THE LINE BETWEEN THE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION NEEDED FOR INTELLECTUAL DEBATE AND HARASSMENT, BETWEEN SPEECH AND CONDUCT?

RICK?

>> IT'S NOT A LINE, DAVE.

IT'S A TREMP.

DANGEROUS ON BOTH SIDES.

A DANGEROUS TRENCH ON BOTH SIDES.

COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES HAVE CONFLICTING GOALS.

FIRST IS WE WANT PEOPLE TO SEARCH FOR TRUTH, TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE IMPORTANT BUT SOMETIMES CONTROVERSIAL TOPICS.

GROWTH REQUIRES THIS TO HAPPEN IN AS OPEN A SITUATION AS POSSIBLE.

BUT COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE NURTURING ENVIRONMENTS.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 18, 19 AND 20 YEAR OLDS HERE.

SO I THINK IT'S, TO THINK THAT THERE IS A LINE AND WE CAN VERY EASILY SAY WE ARE ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER SIDE IS MAKING THINGS WAY TOO SIMPLE.

>> I THINK IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

CALLING GENOCIDE FOR ANY GROUP OF HUMANS IS WRONG.

>> I DID NOT SAY THAT THERE ARE NOT SOME EXAMPLES THAT FALL KLEIERLY ON ONE SIDE BUT TO THINK THAT THERE IS A LINE WHERE-- FOR INSTANCE, CAN YOU SAY THAT ISRAEL SHOULD NOT EXIST AS A STATE?

WHERE DOES THAT FALL?

I AGREE WITH YOU WITH THE GENOCIDE.

>> IT'S DISCOURSE AND THAT'S WHAT UNIVERSITIES ARE FOR.

>> SOME SAY IT'S CROSSING THE LINE... >> WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE THE THIRD TOPIC DEFINING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANTI-SEMITISM.

>> WE'LL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE.

AND SHOULD THE PRESIDENT OF PENN SHOULD SHE HAVE BEEN FORCED TO RESIGN?

>> I'M NOT PART OF THAT COMMUNITY SO THAT'S NOT FOR ME TO DECIDE BUT THINKING ABOUT THE DISPUTE HERE, I THINK THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EXPLICIT CALL FOR GENOCIDE, PAINTING ON THE WALL THAT ALL JEWS SHOULD BE KILLED IS CLEARLY A VIOLATION OF CODE OF CONDUCT BUT IF SOMEBODY REFERENCES THE ABILITY OF PALESTINIANS TO ORGANIZE FOR THEIR OWN STATE, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT PERHAPS ON ISRAELIS, PARTICULARLY ISRAELI JEWS, BUT IS THAT ESSENTIALLY A CALL FOR GENOCIDE?

SOME OF THESE RELATED PHRASES?

I THINK IT'S LESS CLEAR.

AND THE CODE OF CONDUCT, IT'S A DIFFICULT PROCESS WHERE THERE AREN'T CLEAR LINES, WHERE SPEECH BECOMES CONDUCT.

IT'S AN EDUCATIONAL SETTING.

THERE ARE EFFORTS OBVIOUSLY TO MAKE COMMUNITIES INCLUSIVE SO THAT EVERYBODY FEELS WELCOME.

BUT THE REALITY IS IF I WAS THE PRESIDENT-- AND AGAIN I REALLY EMPATHIZE WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO WENT TO TESTIFY.

IT'S EASY TO MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK.

WE ARE FOLLOWING ALL ANTIDISCRIMINATION LAWS THAT YOU PASSED.

WE TRYING TO SIMULTANEOUSLY VALUE FREE SPEECH AND INCLUDE INCLUSIVE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHO, WHEN WHAT, HOW WITH STUDENTS CANS FACULTY AND ADMINISTRATORS AND STAFF AND WE MAKE THE CASE WITH EACH CASE BEFORE US.

>> CONSERVATIVES HAVE SAID THERE IS EYE DOUBLE STANDARD WHEN IT COMES TO SPEECH.

THAT LIBERAL SPEECH IS ALLOWED AND THEY'RE NOT.

AND I WONDER NOW IF WE ARE JUST KIND OF-- WE ARE GOING TO END UP WITH MORE RESTRICTIONS ON SPEECH.

>> WHICH I WOULD NOT SUPPORT.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, PRIVATE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES ARE NOT BOUND STRICTLY BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT BUT I THINK THEY SHOULD DEVELOP THEIR CODES OF CONDUCT IN LINE WITH THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND WITH THAT YOU CAN RESTRICT TIME, PLACE AND MANNER OF SPEECH.

YOU CAN RESTRICT HATE SPEECH OBVIOUSLY.

BUT I THINK CAMPUSES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT PLACES FOR ACTIVISM AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN SOCIAL MOVEMENTS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FREE SPEECH MOVEMENT AT BERKELEY, ANTIWAR PROTESTS, PEACE MOVEMENT, ANTI-APARTHEID MOVEMENTS, THEY ALL GOT THEIR STARTS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT PLACES FOR STUDENTS TO TRY TO VOICE, GET THEIR ISSUES OF CONCERNS ON AGENDAS, TO GET ATTENTION AND TO TRY TO CHANGE POLICY.

WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE THAT, RIGHT?

AND SO THEREFORE, I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT RESTRICTING THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE-- YOU CAN HAVE CODES WHERE YOU DON'T ALLOW HECKLING, YOU DON'T ALLOW PEOPLE TO THREATEN OTHER STUDENTS.

BUT WE REALLY SHOULD BE ERRING ON THE SIDE OF ALLOWING SOME OF THE SPEECH, IN MY OPINION.

>> AND I THINK WE HAVE SEEN THOUGH, ON MOST CAMPUSES, MORE OF THIS COMING FROM THE LIBERAL SIDE, WHERE YOU CAN'T EVEN INVITE SOMEONE WHO IS AGAINST AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND THEY GET SLOWTED DOWN.

SO I-- SHOUTED DOWN.

I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A DOUBLE STANDARD HERE.

BUT AGAIN, IT'S ONE IN WHICH I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENTS HERE WERE WALKED DOWN A PATH BY STEFANIK VERY CAREFULLY FROM, YOU KNOW, ISSUES OF RIVER TO SEA TO GENOCIDE AND THEY WERE NOT VERY CAREFUL.

THEY GOT LED DOWN FROM SLIGHTLY LESS OBJECTIONABLE TO WHAT MOST OF US AGREE IS EXTREMELY OBJECTIONABLE AND THEY DIDN'T CHANGE THEIR ANSWERS.

>> SHE SET A TRAP AND ELISE STEFANIK, FORGIVE ME, BUT I DON'T THINK SHE IS VERY SINCERE IN HER EFFORTS THERE.

SHE WANTED TO HAMMER HIGHER EDUCATION BECAUSE THAT'S BEEN A PROJECT OF THE RIGHT FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

THEY WANT TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE WHITE NATIONALISTS AND ANTI-SEMITIC GROUPS WITHIN THEIR BASE.

AND I DON'T SEE HER HOLDING HEARINGS ABOUT WHITE NATIONALIST TERRORISM IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> SHE DIDN'T COMPLAIN WHEN TRUMP WAS HAVING DINNER WITH NICK FUENTES AND COON AND KANYE WEST.

>> IF YOU WERE AN ADMINISTRATOR ON THE CAMPUS, WOULD YOU SAY THAT STUDENTS WERE PROHIBITED TO SAY THE TYPES OF PHRASES THAT CAME UP IN THE CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY AND RICK REFERENCED?

>> I THINK THAT IF YOU CALL FOR GENOCIDE FOR ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE, THAT IS A VIOLATION OF THE CODE OF CONDUCT.

>> FROM THE RIVER TO SEA PHRASE, DOESN'T EXPLICITLY DO IT BUT FOR MANY JEWS, IT HARKENS BACK TO THAT.

>> IT IS VERY CLEAR.

THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS ON FREE SPEECH THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES IN ALL SORTS OF CIRCUMSTANCES AND ON THAT, IT SHOULD BE-- THAT IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION TO W50EU7 OUT AN ENTIRE RACE OR CULTURE OF PEOPLE NOR IS IT UP FOR DISCUSSION TO MAKE RAPE OKAY IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH WAS ALSO ON THE TABLE AND DISCUSSED IN THIS FORUM.

IT'S JUST A NO BRAINER.

IT'S A SOFTBALL.

IT'S OUT OF ORDER.

>> AFTER THE HAMAS ATTACK ON ISRAEL OCTOBER 7 AND ISRAEL BEGAN ITS MILITARY RESPONSE, PRO-PALESTINIAN MARCHES AND PROTESTS TOOK PLACE NOT ONLY ON CAMPUS, BUT IN CITIES ACROSS AMERICA AND THE WORLD.

WERE THOSE PROTESTS AND THE ONES CONTINUING TODAY, BY DEFINITION ANTI-SEMITIC?

IS ANTI-ZIONISM THE SAME AS ANTI-SEMITISM?

>> NO, IT'S NOT.

ANTI-SEMITISM, ACCORDING TO THE AMERICAN JEWISH COMMITTEE, THEY'VE DETERMINED-- AND THEY DO A GOOD JOB BREAKING THIS DOWN FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT.

THIS IS WHEN JEWISH COMMUNITY IS VERBALLY OR PHYSICALLY HARASSED.

AND THIS IS THE EXAMPLES THAT WERE GIVEN PREVIOUSLY LIKE SPRAY PAINTING STUFF ON WALLS, DEFACING PLACES OF WORSHIP, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE ANTI-ZIONISM, AND THIS IS THE OPPOSITION TO JEWS HAVING A JEWISH STATE.

SO THE TWO ARE SEPARATE.

>> OKAY.

>> I WOULD SAY IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU ARE DEALING WITH ELIMINATING THE ISRAELI STATE.

IF YOU ARE LIKE HAMAS AND SAYING THE WAY WE ARE GOING TO DO IT BY KILLING ALL OF THE JEWS, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY ALSO BE ANTI-SEMITISM.

BUT I WOULD SAY DISAGREEING WITH , YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS DOING RIGHT NOW, AS THE U.S. IS, OR PERHAPS EVEN SUGGESTING THAT EXPANSION OF ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS IN THE GAZA IS WRONG.

THOSE I WOULD CLEARLY THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK ARE NOT ANTI-SEMITISM.

>> TO ME FROM A POLITICAL SCIENCE PERSPECTIVE, I CAN SEE BOTH SIDES OF IT.

ONE OF THE CHALLENGES HERE, I THINK THIS ILLUMINATES IS THAT ETHNO-NATIONALISM TYPICALLY DOES NOT WORK THAT WELL IN TERMS OF PROTECTING PEOPLE WITHIN A STATE.

SO I UNDERSTAND, GIVEN THE HORRIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES THAT JEWS HAVE FACED THROUGHOUT HISTORY, PARTICULARLY THE HOLOCAUST, OBVIOUSLY, THE NEED AND DESIRE TO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE BASED AROUND THEIR ETHNICITY BUT THE REALITY IS THERE ARE ALSO MILLIONS OF PALESTINIANS DISPLACED IN THE CREATION OF THAT STATE AND THEY CURRENTLY LIVE IN THAT STATE AND IF IT IS A JEWISH STATE, THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT JEWISH.

AND SO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE AWAY OR AT LEAST CONSIDER THE PROS AND CONS OF AN ETHNO-POLITICAL STATE IS THE PATH, ONE WAY IS TO THINK ABOUT EQUALITY AND TO EXPAND THAT POLITICAL PRINCIPLE THROUGHOUT A CIVIC FORM OF NATIONALISM RATHER THAN ETHNO-NATIONALISM BUT THIS IS VERY SENSITIVE FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED.

>> LUKE BRINGS UP A REALLY GREAT POINT AND THAT'S-- DEFINITIONS ARE KEY HERE.

AND THIS IS WHY ON THE FLOOR WHEN THEY WERE VOTING FOR THIS, THAT YOU HAD JEWISH REPRESENTATIVES THAT WOULD NOT VOTE FOR IT BECAUSE THIS ANTI-ZIONISM WAS INCLUDED WITH THE ANTI-SEMITISM AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE.

IF YOU DISAGREE WITH HOW IT BECAME ITS OWN STATE, BY DISPLACING PALESTINIANS, THEN YOU ARE ANTI-ZIONISM IN A SENSE.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU ANTI-SEMITIC.

>> WELL, IF YOU ACCEPT THAT THEY'RE THE SAME THING, I MEAN CAN YOU CRITICIZE ISRAELI POLICY OR DOES THAT IMMEDIATELY MAKE YOU-- >> YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE ABLE TO CRITICIZE ISRAELI POLICY.

IT'S A NATIONAL SPORT IN ISRAEL TO CRITICIZE THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

LET'S REMEMBER THAT BENJAMIN NETANYAHU WAS NOT A POPULAR LEADER.

HE STILL ISN'T, AND THERE WERE, YOU KNOW, 30 WEEKS OR MORE OF CONTINUOUS PROTESTS AGAINST LIMB PRIOR TO OCTOBER 7.

SO ISRAELIS THEMSELVES ARE VERY EXTREMELY CRITICAL, A LOT OF THEM, OF WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING.

AND I THINK THAT'S COMPLETELY FAIR GAME.

AND WE HAVE TO MAKE IT REALLY CLEAR THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE CRIT CRITICIZING THE GOVERNMENT, THEY'RE NOT ANTI-ZIONIST.

I THINK THERE IS A POINT WHERE SOME OF THE TERMS ARE USED PRETTY LOOSELY, PEOPLE-- YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE INTENTION IS ON THE PART OF THE SPEAKER.

AND IN CASES LIKE THESE, IT'S PROBABLY BETTER TO SAY WHAT YOU ACTUALLY MEAN SO THAT IF PEOPLE ARE AGAINST THE EXISTENCE OF THE ISRAELI STATE, I THINK THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM AND THAT IS ANTI-SEMITIC.

BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERYONE WHO IS USING THROWING THAT TERM AROUND, ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE IN PROTESTS REALLY ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.

>> THAT'S I THINK, A GREAT POINT, THAT THE HISTORY HERE IS MAYBE OBSCURED FOR SOME OF THE YOUNGER PEOPLE.

GEORGE WILL HAD A PRETTY BITING COMMENTARY ON-- A COLUMN ON THAT POINT.

IN MANY CASES, I MEAN IF YOUR DISPUTE IS NOT OVER THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL BUT ISRAELI OCCUPATION OF THE WEST BANK, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD CHANGE-- WOULD THAT WOULD BE-- I'M NOT EXPRESSING THIS VERY WELL.

ANTI-ZIONISM TO SOME PEOPLE MIGHT MEAN THAT, NOT ELIMINATION OF THE STATE.

>> I DON'T WANT TO PICK ON YOUNG PEOPLE.

I THINK THE POLITICAL REALITY AND POLITICAL SCIENTISTS UNDERSTAND IS THAT ALL LAND IS CONTESTED.

THE ENTIRE WORLD IS DIVIDED UP AND WHEN THERE IS COMPETING HISTORICAL CLAIMS TO THE SAME PIECE OF LAND OVER CENTURIES, THAT THERE HAS BEEN MULTIPLE WARS OVER, IT'S GOING TO BE A SENSITIVE SUBJECT, PARTICULARLY WHEN ONE ETHNIC GROUP CURRENTLY HAS CONTROL OVER THAT.

SO SOME OF IT IS GENERATIONAL BUT SOME OF IT IS THE BASIC DYNAMICS OF GEOPOLITICS TICKLY WHERE YOU THROW IN THE RELIGIOUS WITH ABRAHAMIC TRADITIONS OF THE SACRED SITES COMPLICATING IDENTITY POLITICS AND GEOPOLITICS.

>> THE QUESTION IS ALSO TO SOME EXTENT ABOUT THE DOMESTIC POLITICS, RIGHT, BECAUSE THE HOUSE, AS YOU POINTED OUT, BROUGHT THIS UP FOR A RESOLUTION, VOTED ON A RESOLUTION AND THERE IS A POLITICAL DIMENSION TO THAT AS WELL.

IT COULD DIVIDE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

WE HAVE TO GO TO THE As AND Fs.

SARAH.

>> MY F GOES TO CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS FOR BLOCKING FUNDING FOR UKRAINE AND TURNING THEIR BACK ON UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WHO IS IN THE UNITED STATES THIS WEEK TO PLEA FOR MORE AID.

YES WE HAVE PROVIDED A LOT OF AID BUT ARE WE PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES SHOULD UKRAINE RUN OUT OF MONEY AND SUPPLIES AND FAIL IN THEIR EFFORTS TO STOP RUSSIAN AGGRESSION?

THIS SHD SHOULD NOT BE A HARD CALL ON THE PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> BEN, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO A U.S.

BOUND PLANE FROM LONDON BACK IN OCTOBER 4 OF THIS YEAR.

IT TOOK OFF WITH FOUR DAMAGED WINDOW PANES, TWO OF THEM COMPLETELY MISSING.

11 CREW MEMBERS WERE ON BOARD.

NINE PASSENGERS.

ON AN AIRBUS A-321 THAT FITS 170 PASSENGERS.

IT TOOK THEM UNTIL THEY GOT TO 13,000 FEET TO REALIZE THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG.

THE CO-PILOT AND ENGINEER STILL KEPT THE PLANE IN THE AIR TO GO LOOK AT SAID WINDOWS AND GOT UP TO 14,000 FEET BEFORE DECIDING IT WAS BAD AND TO LAND.

>> GOOD IDEA.

LUKE, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE WIDESPREAD AND ILLEGAL PRACTICE OF HIRING MIGRANT CHILDREN TO WORK AS ROOFERS.

THESE KIDS ARE SIX TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE DOING THIS TYPE OF WORK THAN ANY OTHER.

>> RICK.

>> MY F GOES TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ON WEDNESDAY BEFORE LEAVING FOR THE YEAR, INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT AID FOR UKRAINE AND ISRAEL, OR A PLAN TO AVOID THE IMPENDING GOVERNMENT SHOWDOWN, THEY SPENT THE AFTERNOON ON THE BIDEN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY AND MAKING SILLY STATEMENTS AS PART OF THE BILL TO PUT WHOLE MILK BACK INTO THE PROGRAM.

NUTRIENTS PROVIDE THE FUEL SANTA NEEDS TO TRAVEL THE WHOLE GLOBE IN ONE NIGHT.

NOW I'M NO SCROOGE, I'M A BIG FAN OF SANTA AND OF MILK BUT YOU CAN'T TELL ME THIS WAS THE BEST USE OF CONGRESS' TIME.

>> AND NOW THE As.

SARAH, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO NEW YORK STATE FOR A NEW PROGRAM THAT WILL SPEND ABOUT $50 MILLION TO HELP LANDLORDS REPAIR AND RENOVATE 500 SINGLE ROOM OCCUPANCY UNITS KNOWN AS SROs.

THESE USED TO BE MORE COMMON BUT WERE DESTROYED OR CONVERTED TO MORE EXPENSIVE HOUSING WHEN THEY WERE SEEN AS SOBERED WITH POVERTY, UNSANITARY CONDITIONS AND OVERCROWDING.

NOW THEY'RE SEEN AS A VERY SMALL PART OF THE SOLUTION TO THE HOUSING CRISIS.

THIS IS A SMALL PROGRAM TO BE SURE, BUT WE HAVE TO TACKLE THIS ISSUE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND WE NEED A LOT OF IDEAS AND HERE IS ONE.

>> OKAY.

BEN.

>> MY A IS GOING TO THE WEST FIELD ACADEMY IN CENTRAL SCHOOL MUSIC TEACHER AND CHOIR DIRECTOR KENT NETTENBERGER.

GRAMMY AWARD WINNER AND HAS BEEN SERVING IN THIS POSITION FOR ALMOST THREE DECADES.

AND JUST A MATTER OF WEEKS, HE PUT ON A PRESENTATION OF THE LION KING AND THEN AN AMAZING CONCERT FOR THE HOLIDAYS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

AND LUKE, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO UKRAINE NOW BEING FORMALLY CONSIDERED FOR ADMITTANCE TO THE EUROPEAN EUROPEAN UNION.

A LONG AND HARD PROCESS BUT AN IMPORTANT STEP IN THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE UKRAINIAN DEMOCRACY.

>> JEROME POWELL AND THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

THE FED MAY BE ON THE VERGE OF PULLING OFF THAT SOFT LANDING FOR THE U.S. ECONOMY.

INFLATION IS FALLING AND THERE IS NO SIGN OF THAT RECESSION THAT MANY HAVE BEEN PREDICTING.

STILL PREMATURE TO PREDICT TOTAL VICTORY BUT THEY'RE MUCH CLOSER THAN ANYONE GAVE THEM CREDIT FOR.

>> WE HAD A COUPLE MENTIONS OF UKRAINE IN THE AS AND Fs.

ONE QUICK POINT.

THERE IS SUPPORT IN BOTH PARTIES, IS THERE NOT, TO SEND AID TO UKRAINE BUT IT'S JUST TIED UP WITH THE DISPUTE OVER THE IMMIGRATION REFORM.

>> RIGHT.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.