RHODES AND LEONA B. CARPENTER FOUNDATION AND THE CHARLES A. FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.

>>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY, FIRST, DOZENS OF STATES TAKE AIM AT ABORTION RIGHTS AND WOMENS HEALTH.

THEN, A NEW IMMIGRATION PROPOSAL THAT DOESN'T FOCUS ON FAMILIES.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES TURNING OFF THE NEWS.

ONE FORMER WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT SAYS WOMEN ARE OFTEN TUNING OUT.

>>> HELLO, WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY.

A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, THE RUSH TO RESTRICT ABORTION.

>>> THE ANTIABORTION MOVEMENT IS PUSHING FORWARD WITH BILLS THAT GO FURTHER THAN EVER IN CHALLENGING ROE VERSUS WADE.

SEVERAL LAWMAKERS ARE ATTEMPTING TO SEIZE THE MOMENT AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S APPOINTMENT OF ULTRA CONSERVATIVES BRETT KAVANAUGH AND NEIL GORSUCH TO THE BENCH.

>> THIS IS A COORDINATED ATTACK ON WOMEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND WE KNOW WHAT'S AT STAKE.

LIVES.

THOUSANDS OF WOMEN DIED BEFORE ROE VERSUS WADE AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO BACK TO THAT TIME.

WHAT POLITICIANS NEED TO REALIZE IS THAT WOMEN ARE OUTRAGED.

WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET THIS STAND.

>> I JUST HOPE THAT WOMEN WILL GET INVOLVED.

THAT THEY WILL RUN FOR OFFICE.

THAT THEY WILL COME TOGETHER.

THEY'LL MOBILIZE.

WE'RE A POWERFUL FORCE.

WE JUST NEED TO COME TOGETHER TO USE IT.

>> THIS YEAR, SEVEN STATES, UTAH, KENTUCKY, ARKANSAS, MISSOURI, GEORGIA, OHIO, AND ALABAMA HAVE NARROWED THE WINDOW FOR WOMEN TO GET ABORTIONS.

ALABAMA'S LAW GOES FURTHEST BANNING ABORTION OUTRIGHT.

THIS IS THE MOST EXTREME BAN ON ABORTION THAT'S BEEN PASSED SINCE ROE VERSUS WADE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A BAN ON ABORTION AT ANY POINT IN PREGNANCY WITH NO EXCEPTION FOR RAPE OR INCEST.

AND DOCTORS WHO PROVIDE ABORTION CARE COULD BE PUT INTO JAIL FOR 99 YEARS.

A LIFE SENTENCE.

>> I NEVER THOUGHT SITTING IN THE ALABAMA STATE SENATE OR SITTING IN THE SEAT OF GOVERNMENT THAT WE WOULD BE AT A POSITION WHERE WE WOULD BE ABOUT SILENCING PEOPLE, TAKING AWAY THEIR CHOICE, FORCING THEM TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR BODIES AND THAT'S ALL WE HAVE IS OUR BODIES.

IT'S OURSELVES.

YOU HAVE TAKEN AWAY THAT.

IT'S LIKE BEING IN A STRAIGHT JACKET AND PUT IN A HOLE AND BURIED ALIVE.

YOU CAN SCREAM BUT NOBODY HEARS.

>> IN TOTAL, ABOUT 30 STATES HAVE PASSED ABORTION LAWS THIS YEAR ALONE.

AND MORE COULD BE ON THE WAY WITH SEVERAL BILLS ADVANCING THROUGH STATE LEGISLATURES.

>> SO CONGRESSWOMAN NORTON, WILL ROE BE OVERTURNED BY THIS NEW MORE CONSERVATIVE SUPREME COURT?

>> BONNIE, THE COURT IS A CONSERVATIVE INSTITUTION IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE.

IT WON'T WANT TO -- THESE DELIBERATELY EXTREME AND PROVOCATIVE CASES TO OVERTURN ROE AND DECLARE A BRAND NEW DOCTRINE.

>> LOOK, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT THAT LAWS BEING PASSED ACROSS THE STATE ARE TRENDING VERY HEAVILY IN THE PRO LIFE DIRECTION.

ONE OF THEM IS BOUND TO GET TO THE SUPREME COURT SOONER OR LATER.

>> WE HAVE TO BE OUTRAGED THAT WE'VE MADE PERSONAL FREEDOM ABOUT GENDER.

PERSONAL FREEDOMS NEED TO BE BLIND TO GENDER IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> THIS IS NO DOUBT A HUGE POLITICAL GAIN.

THE WHOLE END GOAL PARTICULARLY IN ALABAMA IS TO SEND IT RIGHT ON UP TO THE SUPREME COURT.

WE'RE VERY OPEN ABOUT THAT.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.

>> IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS WHO WILL SPLIT FROM THE MAJORITY.

HE DID ON SAME-SEX MARRIAGE.

AND KAVANAUGH IS AN UNKNOWN.

AND I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY THREE OR FOUR CONNECTED CONSERVATIVE WOMEN THAT HE WILL NOT VOTE TO OVERTURN ROE.

HOWEVER, THAT SAID, WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THOSE TWO AND WHAT THEY WILL OR WON'T DO?

>> I THINK IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE CASES, WHETHER IT'S THE ALABAMA LAW, THERE'S A LOT TO WORK WITH HERE SHALL WE SAY AND SO IT WILL DEPEND ON CASES BROUGHT FORWARD AND THE REASON THAT IT'S BROUGHT FORWARD AND WHAT THE JUDGE WILL BE ASKED TO RULE.

BUT REMEMBER WHEN WE TALK ABOUT OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE, IT MEANS IT GOES BACK TO THE STATE WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS BEFORE ROE.

IT'S A MORE NARROW DECISION.

>> IT'S ALSO QUITE FRANKLY IN CERTAIN STATES LIKE ALABAMA IT'S A POST ROE SITUATION.

YOU CAN'T GET AN ABORTION IN THE STATE.

EITHER THE CONSERVATIVE PROTESTERS HAVE CHASED THEM OUT BECAUSE THE CLINICS BECOME UNSAFE, THEY GET BOMBED.

PEOPLE GET SHOT AT.

SO THERE ARE ABOUT ALMOST A DOZEN STATES IN THE MIDWEST AND THE SOUTH WHERE ABORTION IS ILLEGAL ALREADY.

IT'S BEEN VERY RESTRICTIVE IN THOSE SOUTHERN STATES.

THAT'S WHAT LEADS ME TO BELIEVE THAT SOMEBODY LIKE JUSTICE KAVANAUGH MAY KICK IT BACK AND SAY WE'RE NOT GOING TO OVERTURN BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE STATES CONTINUE TO HANDLE THIS.

>> THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT.

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, THESE CASES AT THE COURT OF APPEALS LEVEL HAVE GOT TO -- THE COURTS HAVE GOT TO RULE AGAINST THEM BECAUSE THEY OVERTURNED ROE.

THEN THEY MUST DECIDE WHETHER TO TAKE THE CASE.

IT TAKES FOUR JUSTICES TO DECIDE AND I AM PREDICTING THAT YOU WILL NOT GET FOUR JUSTICES TO SAY JUST WHAT WE WERE WAITING FOR.

>> INTERESTING.

I THOUGHT IT WAS FIVE.

>> FOUR JUSTICES DECIDE.

>> FOUR OUT OF THE NINE.

SO YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHETHER ROE WILL BE OVERTURNED.

>> WELL IT'S A TELLING SITUATION WHEN RUTH BADER GINSBURG AND SHE ONCE WAS ON THE BOARD OF LEGAL MOMENTUM AND BACK THEN SHE CAME OUT AND SAID THIS REALLY SHOULD BE DECIDED ON A STATE BY STATE BASIS.

AND THEN MOVE FORWARD.

>> BECAUSE THE REASON FOR THAT, SAM, AS YOU WELL KNOW, IS THAT IT'S NOT CLEAR BY ANY MEANS THAT PROGRESSIVE WOMEN HAVE THE MEANS TO FIGHT THIS THING ON A STATE BY STATE BASIS AND THAT'S THE HIDDEN -- THAT'S WHAT CONSERVATIVES DON'T TELL YOU AND LIBERALS DON'T TELL YOU.

WHEN IT GOES TO STATE BY STATE IT'S GOING TO BE ILLEGAL IN PROBABLY THE MAJORITY.

>> AS WE SPEAK, IT'S ON A STATE BY STATE BASIS SO SOME WOMEN NOW HAVE TO TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF THEIR STATE IN ORDER TO GET AN ABORTION AND I THINK THE COURT IS GOING TO LEAVE IT THAT WAY.

>> OUR HOPE OF COURSE IS THIS CATALYZES WOMEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

73% OF THE COUNTRY IS IN SUPPORT OF WOMEN MAKING THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE SOURCES.

>> IS THIS GOING TO MOBILIZE THESE PEOPLE?

THEY HAVE NOT BEEN MOBILIZED TO THIS POINT.

>> THE HOPE WOULD BE.

LEGAL MOMENTUM WHO WAS THE PIONEER BEHIND THE SEXUAL VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN NO OTHER ORGANIZATION WOULD TOUCH THAT SO IT'S A MATTER OF CLIMATE AND MOMENTUM.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU IF ALL THE YOUNG WOMEN OF AMERICA MY DAUGHTERS AGE AND BELOW REALIZE THEY COULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL OR TO BEING ABLE TO MAKE THEIR DECISIONS, WE WOULD SEE A CHANGE.

>> ONE OF THE THREE CASES PENDING NOW BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT FAR LEFT, FAR FAR LEFT EXTREME FOR EXAMPLE ONE ABORTION CLINIC ONLY IN ONE OF THESE STATES.

THE COURT IS MORE LIKELY TO TAKE ONE OF THOSE CASES AND WE WON'T SEE WOMEN COME OUT AND GET DISTURBED UNTIL IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'VE TAKEN ONE OF THOSE CASES.

>> DO YOU THINK MOST WOMEN RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT AGAIN IT'S -- WE'RE LIVING IN A POST ROE AMERICA IN ABOUT HALF THE COUNTRY AT THIS POINT.

WHY BOTHER OVERTURNING IT FIRST OF ALL BUT SECONDLY EVEN THE SITUATION AS IT IS NOW IS THAT IT AFFECTS LOW INCOME WOMEN BECAUSE HIGH INCOME WOMEN CAN GO TO ANOTHER STATE OR -- AND THAT'S FOOLISH.

>> THERE'S BEEN RESEARCH AROUND THAT PARTICULAR PIECE.

I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT WHAT ELIZABETH WARREN SAID.

THIS IS UNBELIEVABLY CRUEL AS MYSELF HAVING BEEN RAPED, AS MY MOTHER HAVING BEEN A VICTIM OF INCEST, AS MYSELF HAVING BEEN COMMERCIALLY SEXUALLY TRAFFICKED.

>> AS MY MOTHER HAVING HAD TO FLY TO CUBA IN THE 50S TO HAVE AN ABORTION BECAUSE -- >> IMAGINE HAVING TO CARRY THE BABY OF YOUR RAPIST, OF THE FATHER THAT INCESTED YOU, AND THEN HAVING TO GIVE THAT RAPIST, THAT FATHER PARENTAL RIGHTS TO THE FETUS, THE PREGNANCY THAT YOU WERE FORCED TO CARRY TO TERM.

THIS IS UNBELIEVABLY CRUEL AND OUR HOPE CAN ONLY BE THAT WOMEN WAKE UP.

>> I THINK MANY AMERICANS INCLUDING MANY WOMEN HAVE DECIDED THAT IT'S UNBELIEVABLY CRUEL THAT WE'VE KILLED MILLIONS OF UNBORN CHILDREN.

>> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO START THAT HERE.

>> I THINK A LOT OF AMERICANS -- >> AND I RESPECT YOU.

>> I RESPECT YOU BUT WE HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW.

I BELIEVE THE UNBORN CHILD -- >> SO YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER -- >> NO.

I BELIEVE WE HAVE -- >> ONE AT A TIME.

LET SAM FINISH HER QUESTION.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THE HEALTH OF A FETUS AHEAD OF THE PSYCHOLOGICAL, EMOTIONAL HEALTH OF A MOTHER HAVING BEEN AT THE RECEIVING END OF COMMERCIAL SEXUAL EXTHROEATION AND RAPE AND SEXUAL ABUSE I STILL STRUGGLE AT THE AGE OF 62 FROM HEALING AND RECOVERING FROM THOSE THINGS.

YOU CANNOT PUT THE HEALTH OF A FETUS AHEAD OF A WOMAN, A LIVING AND BREATHING WOMAN.

>> IT'S A ZYGOTE.

>> AND I WOULD NOT DO THAT.

>>.

>> YOU ARE.

>> WHAT I WOULD SAY IS I BELIEVE YOU HAVE TWO HUMAN BEINGS HERE AND WHAT IT'S SAYING TO ME IS WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU AND MANY WOMEN IN THOSE SITUATIONS IS HORRIBLE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU EVER COMPLETELY GET OVER THAT.

THAT IS ALWAYS -- >> YOU DON'T.

>> AND THAT'S TERRIBLE.

BUT I DON'T THINK TAKING -- >> YOU WOULD FORCE HER TO HAVE A CHILD.

>> LET HER FINISH.

>> YOU WOULD FORCE HER TO HAVE A CHILD.

>> I DON'T THINK TAKING THE LIFE OF THAT CHILD IS AN ANSWER.

>> IT'S NOT A CHILD.

IT'S A FETUS.

>> THAT'S WHERE WE DISAGREE AND I THINK THAT'S -- >> THAT'S WHERE THE DEBATE IS AMONG THE PUBLIC AND YOU SEE THIS IN THE STATES.

ALABAMA WENT TO THE BEGINNING.

OTHER STATES ARE SAYING AT EIGHT WEEKS.

OTHERS SAY THE HEARTBEAT.

>> YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS OF AMERICANS ARE FINE AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT FEMALE.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

>> THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> I SEE BOTH SIDES BECAUSE IN 2008, I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I LEARNED I WAS WORKING FOR THE ONLY MEMBER OF CONGRESS AT THAT TIME WHO WAS STILL AGAINST ABORTION IN THE CASE OF INCEST AND RAPE.

IN MY GENERATION OF CONSERVATIVES, I FOUND AN OVERWHELMING IN SENSE ABORTION IS STILL FINE IN CASES OF INCEST AND RAPE BECAUSE WE CANNOT COMPEL THE MOTHER TO DO BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT IS THAT THIS IS A LIFE BUT -- >> SIT A LIFE WHEN IT'S A ZYGOTE?

TWO CELLS.

I DON'T KNOW.

YOU THINK IT'S -- >> MEDICAL SCIENCE IS ALREADY ENABLED A WOMAN AT THAT ACHE A PILL BEFORE SHE EVEN KNOWS SHE'S PREGNANT AND THERE IT GOES SO I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE'RE SEEING THESE EXTREME VIEWS IS THAT THEY'VE SEEN MEDICAL SCIENCE HAS MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR WOMEN TO DO THEIR OWN ABORTION.

>> THERE'S STILL MORE THAN A MILLION ABORTIONS A YEAR.

>> THAT'S RIGHT BUT SCIENCE IS OUTRUNNING.

>> ONE IN FOUR AMERICAN WOMEN MAKE THE DECISION TO TERMINATE A PREGNANCY.

ONE IN FOUR.

SO I HAVE TO BELIEVE THERE HAS GOT TO BE A TIPPING POINT WHEN THAT RIGHT IS TAKEN AWAY, A PERSONAL FREEDOM FROM A WOMAN THAT SHE WILL STAND UP AND SAY NO MORE AND THERE'S NO AREA OF MEN'S HEALTH THAT IS REGULATED.

IT'S ONLY WOMEN'S HEALTH THAT IS REGULATED.

>> WOMEN HAVE BABIES.

MEN DON'T.

>> OKAY.

FINE.

>> BUT THAT'S TRUE.

>> MEN ARE HALF OF THE EQUATION.

>> THEY ARE.

>> WHY DON'T CONSERVATIVES SAY MEN CANNOT HAVE SEX WITH WOMEN IF THEY DON'T -- THERE SHOULD BE LAWS SAYING MEN YOU CAN'T HAVE SEX WITH A WOMAN IF YOU'RE NOT READY TO BE A FATHER AND PAY FOR THAT CHILD.

[LAUGHTER].

>> OKAY.

WE'LL INTRODUCE THAT.

>> THAT'S THE SAME THING AS WHAT ALABAMA IS DOING TO WOMEN NOW.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FROM ABORTION POLICIES TO IMMIGRATION.

[APPLAUSE].

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP UNVEILED A CONTROVERSIAL NEW IMMIGRATION LAW THAT MOVES THE U.S. AWAY FROM A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS IMMIGRANTS TO CHOOSE FAMILY FOR U.S.

CITIZENSHIP CANDIDATES.

THE POLICY GIVES PREFERENCE TO EMPLOYMENT SKILLS AND EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS DEMANDED BY THE U.S. ECONOMY.

THE PROPOSAL ALSO INCLUDES MORE MONEY FOR A BORDER BALL BUT IT'S A LONG WAY FROM BECOMING LAW.

DO YOU SUPPORT THE IDEA?

>> IT'S A TOUGH QUESTION FOR ME.

I'M THE DAUGHTER OF TWO IMMIGRANTS.

>> MY DAD WAS -- NOT REALLY MERIT BASED BUT -- THEY WERE HIGHLY SKILLED, HAD DEGREES, HAD SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE WHEN THEY CAME TO AMERICA.

EVERYBODY THAT FOLLOWED AFTER MY PARENTS WERE FAMILY.

WE HELPED A LOT OF PEOPLE COME OVER BECAUSE WE FELT THEY WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY.

MY DEMOGRAPHIC IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

THE INDIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY OBVIOUSLY BELIEVES IN NOT TAKING ANY SORT OF HELP.

WE LOOK WITHIN FAMILY STRUCK CONSIDERS TO GET HELP RATHER THAN GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE.

WE BELIEVE IN ELEVATING STATUS WHEN WE COME OVER HERE SO IT'S HARD FOR ME BECAUSE MY PARENTS GOT -- THEY FOLLOWED ALL THE RULES AND IT COST A LOT OF MONEY TO FOLLOW THE RULES FOR EVERYBODY WE HELPED IN MY FAMILY COME AFTER.

>> YAY FOR YOU.

THAT'S NOT BEEN THE STORY OF THIS COUNTRY.

>> YEAH.

>> AND I'M NOT GOING TO COME OUT FOR THAT OR FOR THE KIND OF IMMIGRATION WE'VE HAD ALL ALONG BECAUSE THIS IS A COMPROMISE ON THE TABLE FOR GOODNESS SAKE.

THE DEMOCRATS -- >> DOES IT HAVE ANY LIMBS?

>> THIS BILL AS THE SPEAKER HAS SAID ALREADY IS DEAD ON ARRIVAL BUT THE DEMOCRATS WERE WILLING TO GAUCHE ATE ON CHANGES -- NEGOTIATE ON CHANGES FOR IMMIGRATION ON DACA, THAT'S THE IMMIGRANT CHILDREN WHO WERE BROUGHT HERE BY THEIR PARENTS.

KNOW NO OTHER COUNTRIES DIDN'T CHOOSE TO COME HERE.

THAT IS THE KIND OF THING THAT ANY SANE CONGRESS WOULD DO AND THE FACT WE WON'T COMPROMISE SO I THINK IT'S HARMFUL TO SAY WELL I KNOW MERIT BASE, OF COURSE IT'S TERRIFIC.

AND OF COURSE WE COULD GET THAT.

AND WE COULD GET THAT WITH A SENSIBLE COMPROMISE THAT OF COURSE ALLOWED SOME IMMIGRANTS TO COME IN WHO WERE TYPICAL OF AMERICANS FOR MOST OF THE TIME WE'VE BEEN HERE.

SOME WHO WERE KILL SKILLED.

DEAL WITH THE DACA KIDS AND LET'S CALL IT A DAY.

>> BUT YOU KNOW IF TRUMP AND, YOU KNOW, I RECOGNIZE THAT THINKING PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH THIS PRESIDENT, IT'S TRUE.

THIS IS TRUE.

SO -- >> I'M BLAMING THE CONGRESS ON THIS ONE.

>> BUT DEMOCRATS ARE ALSO THE BASIS OF THE WAR ON POVERTY.

AND CAN SPENT SINCE LYNDON JOHNSON'S TIME $50 BILLION TRYING TO BRING PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY AND YOU KNOW WHAT, IT WORKS.

BUT WHEN YOU BRING IN A MILLION PLUS UNEDUCATED IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR, THAT IS THE POVERTY THAT'S BEING CREATED TODAY.

>> THAT'S WHY I'M -- >> DO DEMOCRATS THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> OF COURSE WE'RE ADVOCATING NOT THAT EVERYBODY BE LET IN AND YES THE COUNTRY HAS CHANGED AND YES WE HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF ECONOMY.

WHAT WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT IS WHAT KIND OF IMMIGRANTS, WHAT MIX OF IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE COMING IN.

>> YES.

>> AND I WOULD SAY I MEAN THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT I THINK REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AGREE ON IN THIS ISSUE.

>> I WANTED TO ASK YOU BECAUSE TWO WEEKS AGO HE SAID WE'RE FULL.

THE CLASS IS CLOSED.

AND NOW HE WANTS TO LEAVE IMMIGRATION LEVELS WHERE THEY ARE.

THAT'S THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TELLING HIM DON'T YOU DARE CUT IMMIGRATION LEVELS.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF VOICES HERE.

I THINK A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WERE VERY HAPPY WITH THE PRESIDENT YESTERDAY BUT LIKE I SAID THERE ARE PEOPLE FROM ALL SIDES.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS WE AGREE ON.

THE PROBLEM IS TO TRY TO PUT THIS WHOLE COMPREHENSIVE THING TOGETHER AND EVERY TIME IT FALLS APART.

CAN WE JUST PASS THE PIECES THAT WE AGREE ON.

THEN THE COMPREHENSIVE ONES.

>> NAME WE ONE PIECE WE ALL AGREE.

>> YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT RELATED TO THE TYPES OF IMMIGRANTS WE ALLOW IN AND ADJUSTING THOSE NUMBERS.

THE IMMIGRATION SERVICE NOW AS IT IS, WE ALL KNOW -- >> NOBODY IS GOING TO LEAVE -- >> WHY NOT ADDRESS THOSE PIECES THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THE 11 MILLION, 15 MILLION, WHATEVER NUMBER IT IS THAT ARE HERE.

SOME ARE DACA.

SOME ARE NOT.

>> THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO LEGISLATION.

>> BUT THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANYWHERE.

>> THE WAY WE DO LEGISLATION IN THE UNITED STATES IS RECOGNIZING THERE ARE REPUBLICANS, THERE ARE DEMOCRATS.

THERE'S A PRESIDENT.

WE'RE FROM DIFFERENT PARTIES.

IF YOU REALLY ARE SERIOUS ABOUT LEGISLATION, YOU HAVE TO LET THE OTHER SIDE HAVE SOMETHING AT THE SAME TIME.

>> OKAY.

BUT THE THINGS YOU AGREE ON.

>> HERE I SIT IN THE MIDDLE AND I LOOK AT REPUBLICANS, THE MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS I THINK ONLY A THIRD ARE FOR CUTTING IMMIGRATION LEVELS.

TWO THIRDS ARE FOR IT.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS CHEAP LABOR.

THEY WANT CHEAP LABOR.

THERE ARE 40 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED AND HAVE DROPPED OUT OF THE UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM.

OUR UNEMPLOYMENT LEVELS ARE NOT WHAT THEY PUT OUT.

SO IF THE REASON FOR THAT IS IMMIGRANTS WILL DO JOBS FOR MINIMUM OR SUB MINIMUM WAGES.

THERE ARE NO JOBS AMERICANS WON'T DO FOR A FAIR AMOUNT OF MONEY AND DEMOCRATS ALSO WANT TO RAISE WAGES FOR THE LOWEST STILLED IN THIS COUNTRY.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE NOT SAYING HERE IS I FEEL LIKE THIS IS TRUMP THROWING A BONE TO PART OF HIS CONSTITUENCY AND WHY TAKE A VERY IMPORTANT SERIOUS ISSUE AND JOB FUSS KATE IT LIKE THIS.

I KNOW WE GOT PROBLEMS WITH IMMIGRATION BUT WE'RE STILL THE NUMBER ONE IMMIGRATION NATION IN THE WORLD.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO COME HERE AND GUESS WHAT WE'RE THE LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD.

THERE IS A DIRECT -- >> BARELY.

CHINA IS CATCHING UP.

>> YEAH BUT CATCHING UP WITH 3 BILLION PEOPLE.

>> 1 BILLION.

>> 1.2.

>> 2 BILLION PEOPLE.

SO WE HAVE A HIGHER GDP THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD PER PERSON.

>> LET ME AS A SINNIC.

I SIT BACK -- CYNIC.

I SIT BACK AND SEE REPUBLICANS BEING FOR LARGE NUMBERS OF IMMIGRANTS FOR CHEAP LABOR.

DEMOCRATS WANT VOTES.

>> YOU'RE STEREOTYPING BOTH SIDES.

I PLEAD GUILTY.

I'M A FORMER -- I'M GOING TO FINISH.

GO FOR IT.

I PLEAD GUILTY TO BEING A CYNICAL NEW YORKER BUT THAT -- AS SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T -- ISN'T TRYING TO GET A JOB IN THE ADMINISTRATION OR ANGLING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT'S HOW I SEE IT.

>> I RAN FOR U.S. CONGRESS IN 2008 AND HAD THE HONOR OF BEING THE MOST ENDORSED CHALLENGER IN THE NATION AND MY VIEW ON IMMIGRATION WAS THAT MY UNCLES AND GRANDPARENTS CAME HERE FROM FRANCE AND SWEDEN, RIGHT.

YOU CAN TELL WHICH SIDE I TAKE AFTER.

AND THEY CAME HERE WITH NOTHING.

AND THEY BUILT BUSINESSES AND THEY WERE VERY MUCH PART OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY.

MOST DEMOCRATS ARE FOR IMMIGRATION BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN THE VALUES ETCHED IN THE STATUE OF LIBERTY.

THERE HAS TO BE A COUNTRY THAT IS A LEADER AND A PLACE OF REFUGE.

>> SO MANY REPUBLICANS HAVE THOSE SAME MENTALITY AND VALUES BUT IT'S ABOUT HOW WE'RE SEEING THINGS.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE REAL PROBLEM LIKE VISA OVERSTAYS.

>> THAT IS MORE THAN HALF.

>> WE COULD ALL COME TOGETHER AND AGREE ON THAT TOMORROW.

LET'S PASS LEGISLATION ON THAT TOMORROW.

I THINK NANCY PELOSI AND DONALD TRUMP BOTH AGREE ON THAT.

>> IT DOES NOT REQUIRE ANOTHER ISSUE BECAUSE IT'S NOT OUR ISSUE.

IT'S MUCH MORE OF A REPUBLICAN ISSUE AND THAT'S WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE TO PUT DACA ON THE TABLE.

>> BUT WHY NOT JUST DO VISA OVERSTAYS IF WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT.

>> DEMOCRATS WANT DACA.

>> BUT WE ALL WANT TO REFORM VISA OVERSTAYS.

>> LET ME FINISH.

BECAUSE DEMOCRATS WANT DACA.

THAT'S -- REPUBLICANS WANT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MORE AND DEMOCRATS SAY FINE GIVE US DACA >> THAT'S HOW THE WORLD OPERATES.

>> I UNDERSTAND BUT THAT'S WHY EVERY TIME WE COME TO IMMIGRATION AND DO THE COMPREHENSIVE THING IT'S FAILED.

IT FAILED IN BUSH.

ALL THE WAY BACK.

AND THEY WON'T BRING IT UP AND I AGREE WITH YOU THE LAST CONGRESS FAILED ON THIS.

ABSOLUTELY FAILED.

THE PRESIDENT WAS READY TO MAKE A DEAL.

>> I WAS COVERING THE HOUSE IN THE 80S AND IN 1986, THEY PASSED SIMPLE SIMPSON MIZZOLI WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IMMIGRATION REFORM WHICH IS A COVER FOR OPEN THE BORDERS.

>> YOU'RE HEIGHT.

>> WE DID IT.

AT THAT POINT WE LEGALIZED 3 MILLION PEOPLE HERE ILLEGALLY.

NOW IT'S UP TO 12.

I MEAN -- >> AND YOU'RE MAKING -- REFORM SHOULD MEAN CHANGES.

NOT -- >> RIGHT.

THE POINT YOU MADE IS THE VERY ONE OF WHY THE MANY REPUBLICANS -- SOME SEE IT AS 20 MILLION.

>> SOME DO.

IT'S TOO MANY AND THE REALITY IS BECAUSE REFORMS DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT THE AM NECESSITY DID.

>> SO THIS ISSUE IS DEAD UNTIL DEMOCRATS TAKE BIG MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSES?

>> ONE OF TWO THINGS HAPPEN.

EITHER THE COURTS DECIDE OR THERE BECOMES A CRISIS LIKE 9/11 PRODUCES CRISIS AND THEN PEOPLE COME TOGETHER AND I'M AFRAID WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT FOR A CRISIS.

BY THE WAY, IF THIS SEEMS SO BAD, STUDY THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES.

YOU WILL SEE THAT IS THE WAY THE COUNTRY OPERATES.

IT TAKES SOME KIND OF CRISIS TO SAY TO EVERY SIDE WE GOT TO GET IT TOGETHER.

>> THE RHETORIC IS SO TOXIC RIGHT NOW.

RIGHT NOW THERE'S TALK OF FAKE ASYLUM SEEKERS AND IT'S JUST NOT A PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION WE'RE SEEING.

THERE'S SO MUCH HATE ON BOTH SIDES.

MOST AMERICANS ARE LIKE US.

>> WHAT'S THE HATE ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE?

>> THE FACT THEY'RE PAINTING MOST REPUBLICANS AS PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE IMMIGRANTS.

>> AND THE MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS I INTERACT WITH HAVE ALWAYS EMBRACED PEOPLE OF OTHER RACES.

IT'S BEING FUELLED BY I THINK THE PERSON IN THE OFFICE RIGHT NOW UNFORTUNATELY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THAT'S IT FOR THEY ADDITION.

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