>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, AN IMPASSE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

A CITY COUNCILOR EXPLAINS WHY SHE WENT FROM SUPPORTING HOMELESS CAMPS TO MOVING TO PERMANENTLY BANNING THEM.

>> Bassan: AS ELECTED OFFICIALS WE HAVE THE DUTY TO BE ABLE TO REPRESENT AND SAY, WELL, THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY DON'T WANT.

>> Gene: A FIRSTHAND LOOK AT THE DAMAGE FOR THE LARGEST WILDFIRE IN STATE HISTORY AS NMPBS CREWS REPAIR A MAJOR PIECE OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

A STAFFING CRISIS IS CREATING CHAOS AT JAILS ACROSS THE STATE.

IT HAS GOTTEN SO BAD THAT IN OTERO COUNTY, THE JAIL IS MOVING INMATES TO OTHER NEARBY COUNTIES.

HERE IN BERNALILLO COUNTY A LONG TIME CORRECTIONS OFFICER AT THE MDC HAS BEEN PLACED ON LEAVE AFTER MEDIA PUBLISHED CONCERNS THAT HE SENT TO COUNTY LEADERS.

I'LL TALK TO IT ALL WITH THE LINE IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES.

AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SHOW WE HEAD TO MORA FOR A LOOK AT THE DAMAGE DONE BY THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE.

THAT IS AS PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN EXTENDS FEDERAL FUNDING TO CLEAN UP FROM THAT DISASTER BUT WE START WITH A HOT BUTTON ISSUE IN ALBUQUERQUE, THE FUTURE OF HOMELESS CAMPS IN THE CITY.

IN JUNE, THE COUNCIL VOTED TO ALLOW THE CREATION OF SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

THE FIRST SPACE APPROVED WAS NEAR I-25 AND MENAUL.

IT WAS MEANT TO ACT AS A REPLACEMENT OF SORTS FOR CORONADO PARK WHICH, AS YOU KNOW, THE CITY CLEARED OUT LAST WEEK.

NOW IN AUGUST, THE COUNCIL VOTED TO STOP THE CREATION OF ANY NEW HOMELESS CAMPS WHILE IT CONSIDERS A PERMANENT BAN.

THERE WAS A FAIRLY STARTLING REVERSAL THAT CAUSED AN UPROAR ON NEARLY EVERY SIDE OF THIS ISSUE.

I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHY COUNCILORS CHANGED THEIR MIND SO QUICKLY.

SO EARLIER THIS WEEK I CAUGHT UP WITH DISTRICT 4'S BROOK BASSAN TO ASK HOW OUR CITY LEADERS ARE APPROACHING THIS SITUATION.

DISTRICT 4 CITY COUNCILOR BROOK BASSAN IS WITH US TODAY TO GET CLARITY ON WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS AND PARTICULARLY THE VOTE TAKEN LAST MONDAY TO PLACE A MORATORIUM UNTIL NEXT AUGUST ON ENCAMPMENTS AND OTHER LEGISLATION YET TO BE DISCUSSED AS WELL.

COUNCILOR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Bassan: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Gene: ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS A HOT SUBJECT, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, ON EVERYONE'S MIND.

SOMETHING SEEMS TO HAVE ELEVATED NOW THAT THE MORATORIUM VOTE HAS HAPPENED.

LET ME ASK YOU QUICKLY ABOUT THAT VOTE AND THEN WE CAN KIND OF PEEL BACK TO BEFORE THE VOTE SOME THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.

MY FIRST QUESTION, WHY A WHOLE YEAR?

WHY SUCH A LENGTH OF TIME FOR THIS MORATORIUM?

>> Bassan: SURE.

SO, KIND OF I AM GOING TO TIE INTO SOME OF THAT PEELING BACK AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE THEY GO HAND IN HAND.

THE MORATORIUM IS NOT TO JUST KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD CONTRARY TO WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK.

THE MORATORIUM IS THERE SO WE CAN PUT A HALT ON ANY PENDING APPLICATIONS AND ANY FUTURE APPLICATIONS FROM COMING IN REGARDING SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES WHILE THE SECOND PIECE OF LEGISLATION, WHICH I HAVE INTRODUCED, GOES THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELING.

SO, THERE IS AN ORDINANCE I HAVE INTRODUCED THAT WILL ACTUALLY REPEAL ALL VERBIAGE OF SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES FROM OUR INTEGRATED OUTDOOR DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE, THE IDO, AND THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNING COMMISSION FIRST.

IT IS SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD BY THE COMMISSION IN SEPTEMBER AND, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT AVENUES THEY CAN TAKE, WHETHER THEY DEFER IT OR END UP VOTING IN FAVOR OF IT OR NOT.

BUT THAT IS HOW IT WILL EVENTUALLY COME BEFORE THE COUNCIL.

SO, IN A WAY OF MAKING SURE THAT THEY HAD TIME AND THIS ORDINANCE HAD TIME TO GO THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS RATHER THAN A BOMBARDED AMENDMENT, THIS WAS WHERE THE MORATORIUM CAME IN.

>> Gene: ANOTHER QUESTION.

WHY A PERMANENT BAN?

ARE WE NOT IN AN ALL TRY ALL THINGS SITUATION WITH OUR HOMELESS HERE?

ARE ENCAMPMENTS THAT BAD THAT WE HAVE TO BAN THEM FOREVER?

>> Bassan: THIS AGAIN KIND OF GOES BACK TO SORT OF THE BEGINNING OF THIS SITUATION, RIGHT.

I WAS A SPONSOR OF SOMETHING CALLED LIVING LOTS THAT FAILED THE COUNCIL SO I DON'T EVEN WANT TO GET INTO THE NITTY GRITTY WITH THAT, BUT SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES IS WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER A SECOND STEP NOT EVEN A FIRST STEP.

SO IN HINDSIGHT I WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD THAT FALLEN IN PLACE WHEN I VOTED ON SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

WE DO HAVE THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN SAYING THEY WANT TO TAKE AN ALL TOOLS IN THE TOOL BOX APPROACH BUT ONCE WE VOTED IN FAVOR AND PASSED THE SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES, WE -- I BEGAN TO HEAR AND IN THE PUBLIC WITH DIFFERENT PRESS CONFERENCES AND MEDIA ALERTS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS NOT REALLY GOING TO CHANGE THEIR APPROACH TO ENFORCEMENT ON DIFFERENT PROPERTIES IN FRONT OF BUSINESSES OR AT CITY PARKS, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IT WOULD AT LEAST CHANGE A LITTLE BIT, IF NOT EVEN MORE THAN THAT.

SO, THAT TOOK ME BY SURPRISE BUT THEN YOU ADD IN THE OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT REACHED OUT SAYING THEY WERE IN ABSOLUTE OPPOSITION OF SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES AND I THINK AS ELECTED OFFICIALS WE HAVE THE DUTY TO BE ABLE TO REPRESENT AND SAY, WELL, THIS IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY DON'T WANT.

I RECOGNIZE THERE ARE PEOPLE IN FAVOR OF SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES, INCLUDING MYSELF, AT ONE POINT IN TIME, BUT, WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE MAJORITY OF ALBUQUERQUE AND BECAUSE THEY ARE SAYING THAT WE NEED TO FIND A SOLUTION, BUT THIS IS NOT ONE THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH, WE HAVE A DUTY TO MAKE SURE TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THAT.

>> Gene: ON THE SHOW LAST WEEK I WAS A BIT CRITICAL OF YOU AND OTHERS WHO HAD MADE A TURNAROUND IN THIS SO I AM CURIOUS, WAS THERE A COMMON THREAD OR A THEME THAT YOU HEARD FROM FOLKS WHO WERE NOT CRAZY ABOUT THIS IDEA?

WAS IT SOMETHING -- THERE HAD TO BE SOMETHING BEYOND JUST THE NUMBERS TO MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND.

WHAT WAS OUT THERE YOU WERE HEARING?

>> Bassan: SURE.

I MEAN THERE IS A VARIETY OF COMMENTS OBVIOUSLY.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT THOUGHT THAT SANCTIONING ENCAMPMENTS LIKE SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES WOULD BECOME MORE CORONADO PARK, WHICH IS NOT TRUE.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME THESE PARKS WOULD HELP 40 TO 50 PEOPLE, THEY WOULD NEED MORE REGULATION, SOME PEOPLE WANTED TO KNOW MORE OF A PLAN AND COUNCIL DID VOTE IN OPPOSITION OF DOING THAT.

PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT DANGER.

PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT DRUG TRAFFICKING, SEX TRAFFICKING, THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT FILTH, INCREASE OF CRIME IN THEIR AREA.

SO, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO RESPECT NOT ONLY THOSE THAT ARE UNHOUSED BUT WE HAVE TO ALSO BE ABLE TO RESPECT THE SURROUNDING RESIDENTS THAT HAVE HOUSES AND BUSINESSES IN THE AREA TOO.

>> Gene: LET ME READ YOU -- YOU MIGHT RECOGNIZE THESE WORDS, THEY ARE FROM YOU, A QUOTE FROM YOU.

THIS GOES BACK A LITTLE BIT AND IT TOUCHES ON A POINT YOU JUST MADE I WANTED TO EXPAND ON.

YOUR PUSH BACK SAYS, QUOTE, IT REQUIRES MORE FUNDING, MORE INFRASTRUCTURE, MORE PLANNING, MORE OVERSIGHT, MORE ORGANIZATION, AND IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WILL TAKE A LOT MORE WORK, MEANING THIS PLAN.

I HEAR ENFORCEMENT IN THERE PRETTY LOUDLY.

AND YOU HAVE BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENT ON THAT FROM DAY ONE ON THIS.

IN YOUR SCENARIO, HOW WOULD ENFORCEMENT LOOK LIKE, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHEN SOMEONE CALLS, DO POLICE AUTOMATICALLY SHOW UP WHEN THERE IS HOMELESS FOLKS AROUND?

DESCRIBE WHAT YOU MEAN BY A LITTLE MORE ENFORCEMENT.

>> Bassan: SURE.

WHEN I TALK ABOUT ENFORCEMENT, AND THIS IS WHAT I HEAR FROM CONSTITUENTS TOO THAT ARE ASKING FOR HELP.

THEY DON'T WANT PERSONS TO BE DEFECATING ON THEIR PROPERTY AND IN FRONT OF THEIR BUSINESSES.

THEY DON'T WANT TENTS AND NEEDLES TO BE AT PUBLIC PARKS, WHEN THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE THEM AS A PUBLIC PIECE OF PROPERTY FOR THEIR OWN ENJOYMENT, TOO, WHERE IT IS SAFE.

SO, WHEN I SAY ENFORCEMENT, I MEAN IN ADDITION TO TRESPASSING WHICH, YOU KNOW, DOES EXIST, BUT THERE IS ALSO LAWS ABOUT LOITERING AND LAWS ABOUT OVERNIGHT CAMPING AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ENFORCING A LOT OF THAT.

WE HAVE BEEN OFFERING A 72-HOUR RULE, RIGHT?

AND SO TYPICALLY WHEN THE ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SAFETY DEPARTMENT MAKES FIRST CONTACT WITH SOMEBODY IN AN ENCAMPMENT, THEY ARE OFFERING THEM 72 HOURS TO MOVE.

WHERE DO THEY MOVE TO?

THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM, RIGHT?

ARE WE TALKING LIKE, OKAY, YOU NEED MOVE A BLOCK AWAY AND NOW YOUR 72 HOURS STARTS OVER AGAIN?

THAT IS NOT REALLY A SOLUTION, SO, TO ME, WHEN I SPEAK OF ENFORCEMENT, I THINK THAT I WAS ACTUALLY TALKING TO SOMEBODY ABOUT THIS EARLIER, WHERE IT IS NOT THAT THE POLICE NEED TO COME IN AND JUST BE A HEAVY HAND AND JUST START CITING AND ARRESTING EVERYBODY, BUT, IF THERE IS DRUG DEALING GOING ON, IF THERE IS DRUG USAGE GOING ON, IF THERE IS A LAW BEING BROKEN, THEN WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO OFFER WARNINGS AND JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PLAYING THIS SHUFFLING GAME THROUGHOUT OUR CITY.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE KNOW THERE ARE PLACES, THERE ARE NONPROFITS THAT EXIST AND ARE OPERATING AND FUNCTIONAL WITH EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE TO LEVERAGE THAT AND WORK TOGETHER WITH THE OTHER PARTNERS.

I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED TO BE AN EXPERT IN TREATING HOMELESSNESS AND IN FIGURING OUT A SOLUTION WITH THAT, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE DEDICATED THEIR LIVES TO DOING SO, SO, IF SOMEBODY IS GOING TO CHOOSE TO CAMP AND NOT TAKE SOME OF THOSE SERVICES, THEN WE NEED TO LOOK AND SEE, HEY, ARE THEY BREAKING THE LAW, BECAUSE IF THEY ARE, THAT IS NOT OKAY AND WE CAN'T LET THAT CONTINUE.

>> Gene: HOW ABOUT FOR BUSINESSES.

THERE IS RESIDENTS AND THERE IS BUSINESSES AND BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN SUFFERING IN SOME CORRIDORS.

HOW LOUD IS THAT VOICE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM YOUR CONSTITUENTS, BUSINESS CONSTITUENTS.

>> Bassan: I WOULD SAY IF I HAD TO GUESS, THEY ARE EQUALLY LAY LOUD, RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BUSINESSES WHO ARE ALSO RESIDENTS BUT YOU HAVE RESIDENTS THAT ARE BUSINESSES BUT THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT SAY THEIR BUSINESSES ARE STRUGGLING.

THEY ARE GETTING BROKEN INTO AND THIS GOES BEYOND JUST THE HOMELESS PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

THAT IS ALSO A HUGE DRUG PROBLEM, RIGHT, AND TRYING TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE FIND MONEY TO GET THEIR NEXT FIX, THAT IS AN UNDERLYING ISSUE WE NEED TO WORK ON AND FIND A SOLUTION TO THAT, BUT BUSINESSES ARE STRUGGLING AND THEY ARE SUFFERING A LOT.

WE ARE HEARING A LOT FROM THEM AND A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT IF THEY ARE CAMPED IN FRONT OF A BUSINESS AND THEY ARE SLEEPING AND THEY HAVE TO STEP OVER A PERSON TO WALK THROUGH THEIR FRONT DOOR.

>> Gene: I HAVE TO ASK YOU, WHERE DO WE GO WITH THE HOMELESS SITUATION HERE?

I HEAR FROM A LOT OF FOLKS THAT SAY ON ONE SIDE, THEY ARE FRUSTRATED, WE ARE ONLY TALKING 15, TO 1800 PEOPLE, WHY CAN'T WE GET ON TOP OF THIS?

THERE IS ANOTHER CAMP THAT SAYS, OH MY GOSH, WE ARE OVERWHELMED UNLESS WE COME UP WITH SOMETHING AMAZING IT IS NOT GOING TO ABATE.

YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THINGS THAT FOLKS DO TALK ABOUT ALL THE TIME, IT HAS TO BE PART OF A HOLISTIC APPROACH WITH OTHER THINGS INVOLVED AS WELL, MEANING DRUG ABATEMENT, GETTING HEALTHY, FOOD, ALL THE THINGS, CLOTHING, ALL THE THINGS WE TAKE FOR GRANTED.

OUR CITY IS MORPHING AND GROWING IN INTERESTING AND ODD WAYS.

HOW DO YOU SEE IN YOUR PERSONAL VIEW, COUNCILOR, HOW DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM BEING SOLVED.

>> Bassan: I DIDN'T MEAN TO LAUGH WHEN YOU STARTED THIS, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT I DO START TO LAUGH AT BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAD AN IDEA, RIGHT?

I THOUGHT I HAD A SOLUTION AND NOW I HAVE CHANGED MY MIND BASED OFF WHAT PEOPLE HAVE REQUESTED OF ME AS THEIR REPRESENTATIVE.

SO, NOW, I GET THAT FREQUENTLY WHERE IT IS LIKE, OKAY, SO WE DIDN'T LIKE YOUR FIRST IDEA, SO, NOW, WHAT IS YOUR NEXT IDEA?

I SAY, NO, NO, THAT IS NOT QUITE HOW IT IS GOING TO WORK BECAUSE NOW WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT OTHER SOLUTIONS TOGETHER.

RIGHT.

YOU ALL HAVE MADE IT CLEAR YOU DIDN'T WANT ME TO JUST MAKE A DECISION ON YOUR BEHALF.

I DO THINK THAT THE PEOPLE THAT WANT HELP, THERE ARE SOME OF THEM WE CAN'T IDENTIFY AND FIND, WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE, AND THAT IS WHERE WE NEED TO KEEP GOING OUT AND OFFERING SERVICES, BUT AS WE SAW WITH EVEN CORONADO PARK, FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD, THE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS WENT OUT TO CORONADO PARK, WEEKLY, FOR A FEW WEEKS BEFORE THEY SHUT IT DOWN.

MOST OF THE TIME PREVIOUS TO THAT, PEOPLE WOULD DECLINE SERVICES.

THEY WOULD DECLINE BEING CONNECTED.

ONCE THE IDEA AND ONCE THEY HEARD THAT CORONADO PARK WAS GOING TO BE SHUT DOWN AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO MOVE, THEY HAD MORE PEOPLE ACCEPTING SERVICES THAN THEY USED TO.

SO, AGAIN, THIS CAN BE AN INDICATOR THAT, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT WE DON'T WANT TO FORCE PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING AGAINST THEIR WILL.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT EITHER.

HOWEVER, WE ALSO JUST CAN'T SAY, WELL, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THIS OR TO GET HELP OR TO MOVE TO CERTAIN PLACES, THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO INFRINGE ON THE OTHER BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS AND PEOPLE LIVING IN ALBUQUERQUE.

THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

JUST TO SAY, WELL, WE CAN'T HURT FEELINGS OR FORCE THEM INTO IT.

WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO SAY, YOU CANNOT CONTINUE TO DO THIS.

IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AND IT IS, THIS IS WHERE I GO BACK TO ENFORCEMENT.

IT IS AGAINST OUR ORDINANCES, IT IS AGAINST -- YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN PUBLIC.

YOU CAN'T TRESPASS IF THERE IS SIGNAGE UP.

YOU CERTAINLY CAN'T CAMP IN PARKS OVERNIGHT, RIGHT?

>> Gene: THANK YOU, COUNCILOR BASSAN.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Bassan: THANK YOU.

>> Gene: THANKS TO COUNCILOR BASSAN FOR TAKING THE TIME TO TALK TO US.

YOU CAN WATCH MY FULL INTERVIEW -- THAT WASN'T THE FULL ONE -- YOU CAN WATCH THE FULL ONE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW, LET'S BRING IN OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR THEIR THOUGHTS ON THE RECENT VOTES BY COUNCIL.

WE ARE EXCITED TO HAVE SERGE MARTINEZ, A PROFESSOR AT THE UNM SCHOOL OF LAW WITH US THIS WEEK.

ALONG WITH INEZ RUSSELL GOMEZ, EDITOR OF SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN EDITORIAL PAGE, AND MERRITT ALLEN OF VOX OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS, ONE OF OUR REGULARS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING WITH US THIS WEEK.

NOW THAT THE CITY HAS CLOSED DOWN CORONADO PARK, THE ONLY HOMELESS ENCAMPMENT THEY APPROVED IS FACING HARSH BACKLASH BY A NEARBY NEIGHBORHOOD IN MARTINEZTOWN.

PEOPLE LIVING THERE SAY THE CITY NEVER REACHED OUT ABOUT PUTTING A HOMELESS CAMP NEARBY.

ONE MAN TOLD KRQE TELEVISION NOW THAT THERE IS SOME DIALOGUE, IT SEEMS LIKE THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE A SOLUTION AFTER HEARING FROM COUNCILOR BASSAN.

NOW, MERRITT, LET ME TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS FIRST.

DO YOU THINK THE CITY HAS A WORKABLE PLAN HERE, AS YOU SEE THE BITS FLOATING IN OR OUT OR ARE WE JUST MAKING THIS UP.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE AFTER HEARING COUNCILOR BASSAN'S REVERSAL IN ALL OF THIS?

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE ABOUT THE PLAN AS IT STANDS NOW.

WHERE ARE WE.

>> Merritt: IT IS CLEAR THIS ADMINISTRATION DOESN'T HAVE A PLAN WHEN IT COMES TO THE UNHOUSED.

BECAUSE, OKAY, THIS IS THE APPROVED ENCAMPMENT.

WHAT ABOUT THE MASSIVE ENCAMPMENT AT CENTRAL AND TRAMWAY, WHAT ABOUT ALONG THE OVERPASSES ALONG I-40.

WHAT ABOUT ALONG ZUNI, THE STRETCHES ALONG ZUNI IN THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT?

THERE ARE DE FACTO ENCAMPMENTS ALL OVER THE METROPOLITAN AREA AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE.

YOU CANNOT LIVE IN THE METRO AREA AND NOT NOTICE THAT THIS IS A MARKED CHANGE FROM PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATIONS.

IT IS KIND OF BECOMING LIKE PORTLAND WHERE IT IS JUST OKAY AND THERE ARE CERTAINLY MANY ROOT CAUSES TO HOMELESSNESS, BEING UNHOUSED AS A LIFE-STYLE.

A LOT OF IT IS MENTAL ILLNESS AND ADDICTION.

SO THERE ARE INTERVENTIONS THAT I WOULD THINK A MORE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD WANT TO DO RATHER THAN JUST CIRCLING THEM INTO ONE PARK AND SAYING, THERE YOU GO.

SO, I FEEL THIS IS JUST KIND OF A FAILED STATE SITUATION.

AND I APPRECIATED COUNCILWOMAN BASSAN'S COMMENTS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THERE USED TO BE RULES.

YOU CAN'T BE IN THIS PARK AFTER 10:00 P.M., WE ARE CLOSING THE PARK.

YOU HAVE TO GO.

YOU CAN'T SLEEP ON THIS BENCH.

THIS ISN'T OKAY AND ANTI-VAGRANCY LAWS.

I KNOW THIS SOUNDS HARSH BUT I THINK A LOT OF RESIDENTS ARE GETTING FED UP.

YOU KNOW, THE PLAN FOR I-25 AND MENAUL, I CAN SEE WHERE THIS IS A SOLUTION TO HAVE THEM GO SOME PLACE ELSE.

WELL, THE GROUP WHO WAS CAMPING IN CORONADO PARK, THEY SIMPLY HAVE JUST GONE BACK TO CORONADO PARK OUTSIDE THE FENCE.

IT IS CONVENIENT AND I GUESS MENAUL AND 25 ISN'T THAT FAR, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL BE TRANSPORTED OR IF THEY WALK THERE.

IT IS NOT A HEAVILY RESIDENTIAL AREA.

BUT IT IS A HEAVILY COMMERCIAL AREA AND I CAN SEE WHERE BUSINESS OWNERS MIGHT NOT APPRECIATE THAT AND SIMPLY THROWING UP A COUPLE PORTA-POTTIES AND SAYING, OKAY, YOU CAN BE HERE AND WE'LL LEAVE YOU ALONE, THAT IS NOT A PLAN.

>> Gene: GOOD STUFF THERE.

SERGE, INDIVIDUALS COULD BE SHORTSIGHTED.

WE ALL KNOW THAT.

YOU KNOW THAT BEING A LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR.

OUR ELECTED LEADERS HAVE TO BALANCE CONCERNS, OF COURSE, WHILE KEEPING A LONG-TERM PLAN, IN QUOTES, PLAN FOR THE FUTURE IN MIND.

BUT, AT WHAT POINT DO YOUR PRIORITIES AND IDEALS FOR THE GREATER GOOD THAT INEZ MENTIONED EARLIER BY MERRITT COME BEFORE THE COMPLAINTS OF CONSTITUENTS.

THERE IS A BALANCING ACT HERE.

HAVE WE MOVED INTO A NEW PHASE HERE?

>> Serge: I THINK WE ARE IN THE EXACT SAME PHASE WE ALWAYS ARE.

EVERYBODY SAYS WE GOT TO DO SOMETHING.

JUST NOT OVER HERE, OBVIOUSLY.

IS IT A SURPRISE THAT THE FOLKS IN MARTINEZTOWN ARE SAYING WE DON'T WANT THIS HERE.

EVERYONE SAYS THAT, RIGHT.

WE OFTEN HEAR PEOPLE REFERRED TO, OH, THE LOITERING LAW, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE IN ALBUQUERQUE, ANTI-VAGRANCY LAWS, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE IN ALBUQUERQUE, FOR A VERY GOOD REASON, RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY WERE WEAPONIZED IN RACIST AND CLASSES WAYS TO JUST SAY, THAT IS ICKY, WE DON'T WANT THAT HERE.

BUT, WE ARE DOING THE SAME THING, RIGHT?

MAYOR KELLER WAVED HIS MAGIC WAND AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY HOMELESS FOLKS IN CORONADO PARK.

THEY WENT SOMEWHERE.

IT IS NOT A PLAN.

IT IS A SHELL GAME, WHERE YOU TRY TO MOVE FOLKS AROUND AND HOPE THAT -- WAIT AND SEE UNTIL YOU HAVE PEOPLE COMPLAIN STRIDENTLY AND THEN WE PUSH THEM OFF AND MOVE THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO RUN A LITTLE CRAWLER SAYING THIS IS NOT A REPEAT, BECAUSE I'LL SAY THE SAME THING SO MANY TIMES.

THERE IS NO PLAN HERE BUT THERE IS A WELL UNDERSTOOD MECHANISM FOR DOING THIS.

THERE IS NO SILVER BULLET AND ONE SIMPLE TRICK THAT WE CAN JUST DO THAT HASN'T BEEN TRIED BUT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF RESEARCH ABOUT, YOU KNOW WHAT A GREAT CURE FOR HOMELESSNESS IS?

HOUSING.

RIGHT.

IT REQUIRES RESOURCES AND ALSO REQUIRES US TO STOP INCREASING THE HOMELESS POPULATION THROUGH OUR EVICTION PROCESS AND LETTING PEOPLE JUST NOT HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE BECAUSE OF THE PRICE OF RENT.

COMING AT IT FROM BOTH WAYS.

THIS IS VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND JUST REQUIRES ACTUAL RESOURCES AND ACTUAL COMMITMENT TO DEDICATE THOSE RESOURCES TO THIS RATHER THAN KEEP DOING THE SAME THING AND THROW UP OUR HANDS AND SAY, WELL, IT STILL DIDN'T WORK, WHAT SHALL WE DO?

>> Gene: I'LL REMIND VIEWERS AS WE TAPE THIS ON THURSDAY, THE MAYOR HAS UNTIL FRIDAY, YOU'RE SEEING THIS FRIDAY NIGHT, TO EITHER LET IT GO AND IT BECOMES LAW OR YOU KNOW, MAKE A DECISION HERE.

AND SIGN OFF ON THE COUNCIL'S VOTE TO CREATE A MORATORIUM.

INEZ, WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO AIR THE PART OF THE CONSIDERATION I HAD WITH COUNCILOR BASSAN WHEN I ASKED ABOUT FAITH GROUP CHURCHES AND OTHERS STEPPING IN TO CREATE THEIR OWN SHELTER AND AID AREAS.

THIS IS AN INTERESTING PART OF THIS DISCUSSION TO ME.

SHOULD THE CITY HELP THESE GROUPS TAKE ON PART OF THE BURDEN IF THEY ARE WILLING?

>> Inez: I THINK THAT ANYONE THAT WANTS TO HELP THE LEAST FORTUNATE AMONG US SHOULD GET HELP, WHETHER THE CITY, STATE, WHOEVER, YES, I DO THINK SO.

IN SANTA FE, YEARS AGO WE HAD A WINTER WHERE MANY PEOPLE FROZE TO DEATH OUTSIDE AND OUR INTERFAITH GROUPS GOT TOGETHER AND CREATED INTERFAITH SHELTER AT PETE'S PLACE, WHICH SADLY WAS AN OLD PET STORE.

IT ALWAYS KIND OF BOGGLED MY MIND THAT OUR HOMELESS SHELTER IS AN OLD PET STORE, BUT SINCE THAT HAPPENED WE HAVE HAD HOMELESS PEOPLE DIE BUT NOT MANY OF THEM HAVE FROZEN TO DEATH.

AND I REALLY THINK THAT WAS A GREAT SHOWING OF HOW PEOPLE COULD WORK TOGETHER, FAITH COMMUNITIES AND THE CITY GOVERNMENT, TO CREATE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE COULD BE SAFE IN THE WINTER.

I'LL SAY THIS TO ALBUQUERQUE, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY SANTA FE IS GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING.

LINCOLN PARK IN LAS VEGAS NEW MEXICO WAS SHUT DOWN BY THE MAYOR BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY UNHOUSED PEOPLE BASICALLY RUINING THE PARK.

AND THIS IS LIKE AN ICONIC PARK IN NEW TOWN WHEN YOU COME OFF GRAND AND UP SEVENTH STREET.

WE ARE ALL FACING THIS.

THIS ISN'T JUST ALBUQUERQUE'S PROBLEM.

IT IS ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

YOU CAN EITHER HAVE UNSAFE OUTDOOR SPACES OR YOU CAN TRY TO HAVE SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

AND WHILE I THINK YOU CAN CRITICIZE LEADERS FOR SAYING THERE IS NOT A PLAN, THE PLAN IS TO KIND OF CONSOLIDATE SO OF THE ENCAMPMENTS, MAKE THEM SAFER, GET PEOPLE CONNECTED WITH SERVICES AND DOING WHAT SERGE SAYS IS SO IMPORTANT GETTING THEM HOUSED AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AND TREATING EVERY PERSON WHO IS UNHOUSED AS AN INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE A LONG-TERM STREET ADDICT IS GOING TO NEED A DIFFERENT SERVICE THAN THE PERSON WHO JUST GOT A DIVORCE AND HER HUSBAND CLEANED OUT THE BANK ACCOUNT AND NOW SHE HAS NO PLACE TO LIVE.

WE REALLY HAVE TO TREAT EVERY INDIVIDUAL AS AN INDIVIDUAL AND FIND SOLUTIONS THAT WORK FOR THEM AND STOP EVICTIONS, STOP CREATING MORE PEOPLE WITHOUT HOUSING AND TRY TO TALK TO THE NEIGHBORS SO THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THAT MAYBE THIS CAMP ISN'T GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE IN THEIR FRONT YARD BREAKING IN THEIR HOUSES.

BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND WHY NEIGHBORS DON'T TRUST GOVERNMENT.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE SEEN PEOPLE PUSHING CARTS AROUND AND FORAGING THROUGH OUR YARDS AND IT IS WORRISOME.

IT IS.

YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THOSE CONSTITUENTS BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE IN A GREAT UPHEAVAL AND WE HAVE GOT TO HELP PEOPLE WHO NEED HELP.

>> Gene: WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

PART OF MAYOR'S PLAN TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE IS THE GATEWAY CENTER.

IT IS GETTING CLOSER TO OPENING BUT AS ATTENTION AROUND THIS PROBLEM GROWS, I AM STARTING TO WONDER IF ONE FACILITY IS ENOUGH TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE HERE OR IS THIS JUST THE TIP OF SOMETHING BIGGER.

SERGE IS SAYING, NO.

I AM CURIOUS ON YOUR THOUGHTS AND SERGE'S THOUGHTS IN A SECOND.

GATEWAY CENTER, IS THIS THE SOLUTION.

>> Merritt: THERE ARE CHALLENGES TO THAT AND THE TINY HOMES COMMUNITY WHICH YOU KNOW IS LARGELY VACANT.

GATEWAY CENTER IS A MORE TRANSITIONAL FACILITY AS A SHELTER BUT THERE IS A REASON MANY PROLONGED UNHOUSED PEOPLE REMAIN THAT WAY.

IT IS A CHOICE.

AND SO I THINK THERE WILL BE RELUCTANCE, SIMPLY THE LOGISTICS OF GETTING PEOPLE FROM THESE HIGH DENSITY HOMELESS AREAS TO THE GATEWAY CENTER, FINDING THE PEOPLE TO TRANSPORT THEM.

SAFETY AND SECURITY THERE.

THE MANNING, ALL OF THAT, THE STAFFING, I THINK IS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE AND THEN SECURITY WITHIN THE FACILITY.

BECAUSE, I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERY UNHOUSED PERSON THEY ENCOUNTER IS GOING TO BE A VOLUNTEER.

>> Gene: SERGE, I WANT TO TOUCH ON THIS.

WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT MARTINEZTOWN HERE.

WHAT DO FOLKS IN MARTINEZTOWN NEED TO DO HERE TO BE HEARD.

WHAT IS MISSING IN THAT THE CITY CAN'T JUST WALK IN THERE AND DROP THIS SITUATION ON THEIR BACKS LIKE THIS.

>> Serge: THEY ARE BEING HEARD.

THEY ARE IN THE NEWS.

THIS IS CLASSIC COMPLAINT.

REPORT WHAT YOU SAID AND THEY SAY NO ONE IS LISTENING TO ME.

WE ARE LISTENING.

THEY ARE BEING HEARD.

THEY HAVE A PLATFORM.

AND THEY'LL GET THE SAME RESPONSE THAT EVERYONE GETS, RIGHT, OH, YOU'RE RIGHT, THIS IS TOO MUCH OF A HOT POTATO SO WE'LL MOVE IT TO WHEREVER WE FIND A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE LESS ORGANIZED AND LESS ABLE TO COMPLAIN.

IT DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

YOU KNOW, I AM NOT UNSYMPATHETIC TO THE IDEA OF HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF SAY IN WHAT HAPPENS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD BUT WE -- THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT NOBODY REALLY WANTS AROUND AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO IT THAT IS NOT, WELL, IF SOMEONE STARTS SHOUTING, WE MOVE ON, RIGHT.

LIKE I SAID, I THINK IT IS A TRAVESTY THAT WE HAVE THESE ENCAMPMENTS AND OUTDOOR SPACES BECAUSE WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON PERMANENT STABLE HOUSING, RIGHT.

THIS IS NOT A LIFE-STYLE OR A CHOICE.

THIS IS -- NOBODY WANTS TO LIVE ON THE STREET.

NOBODY WANTS TO DEFECATE IN PUBLIC.

YOU DO THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN KEPT OUT OF OTHER PLACES.

ALL OF THE SHELTERS, YOU KNOW, AS MENTIONED THE TINY HOME VILLAGE, YOU CAN'T USE, YOU CAN'T DRINK, YOU HAVE TO TICK A BUNCH OF BOXES WHERE YOU QUALIFY FOR THIS, WELL, THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AND LEAVING PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE ISN'T WHAT WE NEED TO BE DOING TO APPROACH THIS.

HAVE YOU BEEN TO A SHELTER?

IT WOULD BE THERE ONLY AS A VERY LAST RESORT AND THAT IS THE CHOICE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MAKING.

>> Gene: GOOD LAST POINT.

THAT IS A KEY POINT IN DECISION MAKING.

THANK YOU FOR TALKING THROUGH THAT.

WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO DISCUSS THIS IN A MEANINGFUL WAY IN THE COMING WEEKS AND MONTHS, WE'LL MEET RIGHT BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN LESS THAN A MINUTE TO ADDRESS ANOTHER GROWING PROBLEM.

THIS TIME INSIDE OUR JAILS, WHERE STAFFING SHORTAGES ARE REACHING CRISIS LEVELS.

>> YOU COME UP TO AN AREA LIKE THIS AND THE LAND HAS BEEN SO WELL TAKEN CARE OF BY THE OWNER, TO A FACILITY I HAVE COME TO FOR A DECADE, I GOT TO KNOW THE ANIMALS.

THIS IS A PLACE I WOULD COME IN AND HORNED LIZARDS WOULD COME OUT FROM UNDER THE BUILDING AND WE WOULD SEE ALL THAT AND NOW IT IS GONE.

>> Gene: THERE IS A GROWING CRISIS AT ALBUQUERQUE'S METROPOLITAN DETENTION CENTER AND ABOUT JAILS ALL AROUND THE STATE RIGHT NOW.

FIVE OF NEW MEXICO'S 26 COUNTY JAILS AND DETENTION CENTERS ARE LESS THAN HALF STAFFED.

HALF.

SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO RECENTLY PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE OUTLINING MANY OF THE ISSUES PLAGUING MDC.

IN IT, REPORTERS REVEALED TWO LETTERS WRITTEN OVER THE PAST 13 MONTHS FROM A LONG-TIME GUARD DETAILING THE CONDITIONS HE AND COLLEAGUES WORK THROUGH EVERYDAY.

HERE IS ONE QUOTE THAT STOOD OUT FROM SERGEANT ROBERT MASON.

THE SMELL OF PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO BATHE FOR DAYS AND TRASH PILING UP IN CELLS CAN BE HORRIFIC, END QUOTE.

THAT SOUNDS FUN.

HOW CAN WE SOLVE A STAFFING CRISIS WHEN THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE IS HEARING ABOUT WORKING IN THESE JAILS, MERRITT.

I MEAN, WOULD YOU WALK IN EVEN IF YOU WERE UNEMPLOYED, WOULD YOU WANT TO WALK INTO A JAIL AND WORK THERE?

>> Merritt: I MOVED BACK TO NEW MEXICO IN 2005 AND THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL WAS RUNNING STORIES ABOUT OVER CROWDED CONDITIONS AT MDC AND NOW IT IS 2022.

I AM MARRIED TO CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER AND VISITING MDC WAS HIS LEAST FAVORITE THING TO DO.

HE STARTED TAKING, FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, TAKING PURELY FEDERAL WORK.

AND FEDERAL CASES, DEFENDANTS IF PRE-TRIAL CONFINEMENT, THEY WILL NOT PUT THEM AT MDC.

THEY DO NOT MEET FEDERAL STANDARD AND DEFENDANTS SAY NO WAY, THAT IS INHUMAN, THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE.

WE CANNOT MEET FEDERAL STANDARDS.

IT GETS IN THE WAY OF SIMPLY JURISPRUDENCE TO HAVE CONDITIONS LIKE THAT.

THEN YOU MOVE ONTO JUST SIMPLY THE FACT THAT DEFENDANTS AWAITING TRIAL WHO ARE IN PRETRIAL CONFINEMENT CAN BE MOVED MANY MILES AWAY, SOMETIMES HUNDREDS OF MILES AWAY, THAT IS A BURDEN FOR THEIR DEFENSE LAWYERS, IT DEGRADES THEIR ABILITY TO BE DEFENDED REALLY PROACTIVELY.

IN RURAL AREAS THAT IS A TREMENDOUS PROBLEM BECAUSE THERE IS A SHORTAGE OF PUBLIC DEFENDERS.

AND TO ME IT COMES DOWN -- THERE IS ONLY A CERTAIN POOL OF PEOPLE WE HAVE GOING INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THIS STATE AND IT IS A QUESTION OF MONEY.

STATE POLICE GETS THE TOP AND CORRECTIONS GETS THE BOTTOM.

AND, YOU KNOW, RURAL POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE COMPETING WITH CORRECTIONS, BECAUSE OF PAY ISSUES.

WE ONLY HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE AND THEN YOU HAVE GOT APS TRYING TO HIRE MORE AND MORE AND PUTTING MORE MONEY AGAINST THAT.

AND IT IS PROBABLY MORE SATISFYING WORK IF YOU'RE GOING INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT.

I THINK THE CORRECTIONS DEPARTMENTS IN VARIOUS COUNTIES HAVE A REAL UPHILL CLIMB TO CORRECT THIS.

>> Gene: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, LET ME GO TO INEZ ON THIS ONE.

SAFETY IS SUCH A CONCERN THAT THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS' OFFICE, LIKE MERRITT JUST MENTIONED, WON'T EVEN LET ITS ATTORNEYS STEP FOOT IN THE BUILDING TO TALK WITH CLIENTS.

WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO GET THIS THING MOVING.

THAT ONE ANECDOTE DOESN'T DO IT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT CAN.

>> Inez: IT SEEMS THAT THE PEOPLE IN JAIL ARE GOING TO HAVE A GREAT CASE THAT THEY DON'T HAVE AN ADEQUATE DEFENSE ONCE THEY GO TO TRIAL BECAUSE IF YOU CAN'T MEET WITH YOUR LAWYER, YOU CAN'T PREPARE YOUR DEFENSE.

I MEAN IT SOUNDS KIND OF SIMPLISTIC BUT IT SEEMS LIKE MAYBE WE ARE ARRESTING TOO MANY PEOPLE FOR THE WRONG THINGS.

THAT IS ONE PLACE TO START IS WE CRIMINALIZE SO MANY NONVIOLENT OFFENSES AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE MONEY TO PAY FINES OR TO, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE FIX WHATEVER THEY ARE CHARGED WITH ARE STUCK IN JAIL.

THEN YOU HAVE THE VIOLENT PEOPLE THAT PROBABLY NEED TO STAY THERE.

BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE A JAIL LIKE THAT.

NEW MEXICO IN 1980 WAS THE SCENE OF ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S WORST PRISON RIOTS AND IN THE MONTH AHEAD OF TIME PEOPLE KEPT SAYING, THE PRISON IS UNDERSTAFFED, THE PENITENTIARY IS A MESS.

AND THEN IT ERUPTED.

I DON'T WANT TO SEE ALBUQUERQUE AND NEW MEXICO HAVE AN ERUPTION LIKE THAT WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE DIE AND GUARDS HURT AND INMATES HURT AND SAY, WOW, WE SHOULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS.

I MEAN, IF NOTHING ELSE, SEND THE JANITORS FROM THE COUNTY TO CLEAN THE PLACE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR THE JAIL TO GO PICK UP TRASH.

YOU KNOW THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE.

HIRE A TEMPORARY SERVICE.

THERE ARE CLEANING SERVICE -- GO GET ONE AND HAVE THEM TAKE THE TRASH OUT.

>> Gene: I AM CHUCKLING NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT BECAUSE IT IS SO SIMPLE.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WE CAN SOLVE THIS, AND I AM APPRECIATIVE OF YOUR REMINDER OF THAT 1980 RIOT, THE DURAN CONSENT DECREE CAME OUT OF THAT, AS YOU KNOW, INEZ, IN 1980 AND HERE WE ARE LO THESE YEARS LATER.

SERGE, IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER BY MERRITT, THE 1995 RULING ABOUT BERNALILLO COUNTY BEING OUT OF COMPLIANCE, YOU KNOW, WITH THIS LAWSUIT OF OVERCROWDING.

30 YEARS LATER, SHOULD THERE BE CONSEQUENCES FOR THIS FAILURE?

THIS IS THE PART ABOUT JAIL OVERCROWDING THAT STUMPS ME.

THERE IS NEVER ANY CONSEQUENCES FOR THIS.

>> Serge: YEAH, BECAUSE AS A SOCIETY WE ARE SO ADDICTED TO THIS CARCERAL STATE THAT YOU GET NO SYMPATHY, RIGHT, IF YOU'RE AN INMATE.

YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET AND I THINK LIKE I WANT TO JUST LATCH ONTO WHAT INEZ WAG SAYS SAYING WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT OTHER STORIES WITH GUARDS.

IT IS JUST AS EASY TO SEE THIS AS TOO MANY PEOPLE BEING LOCKED UP.

I MEAN, IT IS ALMOST TOO ON THE NOSE OF A METAPHOR OR ALLEGORY OR WHATEVER LITERARY DEVICE THIS IS.

WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE IN JAIL AND WE CAN'T AFFORD TO KEEP THEM IN JAIL, AND WE ARE SAYING THE PROBLEM IS WE NEED TO GET MORE MONEY TO KEEP THOSE PEOPLE IN JAIL, RIGHT.

IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT IS A FAILED EXPERIMENT, A FAILED APPROACH, THIS APPROACH THAT WE HAVE TO EVERYTHING.

WE HAVE BEEN LOCKING EVERYONE UP.

THIS ONE WAY RATCHET WE HAVE HAD IN PLACE FOR SO, SO LONG.

RIGHT.

THE MONEY THAT WE ARE SAYING WE NEED TO DEDICATE MORE MONEY TO CORRECTIONS OFFICERS.

HOW ABOUT DEDICATE THAT MONEY TO HOUSING, TO SOCIAL SERVICE, TO FOOD, EDUCATION AND RECOGNIZE AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT HAS BECOME A PARITY OF ITSELF WHEN WE ARE SAYING, OH, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO KEEP ALL THESE PEOPLE LOCKED UP THAT WE HAVE INCARCERATED FOR, YOU KNOW, THIS VAST PANOPLY OF OFFENSES MOST OF WHICH ARE EXTREMELY LOW LEVEL.

>> Gene: MERRITT, I WANTED YOU TO TOUCH ON THIS AS WELL THAT INEZ BROUGHT UP.

IT IS A GOOD POINT ABOUT NONVIOLENT CRIMES AND INVESTING IN OTHER RESOURCES TO KEEP LOW LEVEL CRIME OR CRIMINALS OUT OF JAIL.

MDC HAS BEEN TABBED BY THE FEDERAL JUDGE TO HIRE 111 MORE GUARDS IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

IF YOU DO ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER, WILL THAT 111 MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> Merritt: THE STATE HAS ALREADY MOVED IN THAT DIRECTION TO PROVIDE THE TOOLS TO LIMIT PRETRIAL INCARCERATION.

AND IN ALBUQUERQUE, IT HAS NOT ALWAYS HAD GOOD OUTCOMES.

YOU KNOW.

THE PRETRIAL MONITORING SYSTEM HAS HAD SOME PRETTY NOTABLE FAILURES, SO I CAN'T SAY, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE DATA THAT THAT IS A GREAT APPROACH.

I DO FEEL THAT WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN CRIMINALIZING MINOR DRUG POSSESSION IS PROBABLY EXCESSIVE AND WITH THAT AND, YOU KNOW, THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT THE HARD CORE DEALERS.

THOSE ARE NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PERPETUATING THE PROBLEM, OUR DRUG ADDICTION PROBLEM.

AND SO I AGREE THERE MAY BE SO OFFENSES WE COULD LOOK AT BUT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, REMOVAL OF BONDS, OF BAIL BONDS, THE MONITORING SYSTEMS, THE DIFFERENT THINGS WE HAVE TRIED, WE STILL HAVE CRIME SURGING, PROPERTY, VIOLENT CRIME SURGING IN OUR STATE, SO, I AM NOT SURE THAT SPENDING LESS ON CORRECTIONS IS THE RIGHT ISSUE.

I WOULD LOVE TO SAY -- >> Gene: WE HAVE 2.5 BILLION IN NEW MONEY COMING ON TOP OF 2.8 BILLION THIS YEAR.

IS IT A MONEY ISSUE?

DO WE JUST START BUILDING JAILS?

IF SOMEONE SAID YOU COULD HAVE ALL THE MONEY YOU WANT TO FIX NEW MEXICO'S PROBLEM, WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT IT?

>> Merritt: I LIKE INEZ' POINT IS JUST GOING IN AND LOOKING AT, WELL, LET'S HIRE A CLEANING COMPANY.

THERE HAS TO BE A WAY TO GET STAFF IN.

MDC HAS HAD THIS PROBLEM FOR AT LEAST 17 YEARS THAT I AM AWARE OF AND THE LAWSUIT GOES BACK TO '95 SO WE ARE LOOKING AT 25, 26, 27 YEARS.

THEY HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THIS, IT IS KIND OF LIKE SOME OF OUR OTHER PERENNIAL PROBLEMS, WE KEEP THROWING MONEY AT IT BUT NOTHING GETS FIXED.

PERHAPS SOME ACCOUNTABILITY AT THE DEPARTMENT LEVEL WOULD BE A START.

>> SERGE: WE KEEP THROWING MONEY AT IT TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING.

MORE PRISONS.

WE ARE EVERY TIME ASTONISHED WHEN IT DOESN'T WORK.

WE THREW MORE MONEY AT THIS, CRIME WENT UP, LET'S THROW MORE MONEY AT IT AND SEE IF SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS.

IT IS FRUSTRATING TO SEE THE SAME APPROACH TAKEN, THE SAME FAILED APPROACH BEING APPLIED TO THE SAME PROBLEM AGAIN.

>> GENE: WHAT WON'T HELP IS WHAT HAPPENED TO SERGEANT MASON WHO I QUOTED AT THE TOP OF THE SEGMENT WHO WAS PLACED ON ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE IN RETALIATION FOR SIMPLY WRITING A COUPLE OF LETTERS TO SOME ELECTED PEOPLE.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO HELP.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO HELP.

WRAP IT UP THERE.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES TO DISCUSS RECENT CONTROVERSY OVER MEDIA ACCESS AT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR GOVERNOR'S RALLIES.

BUT FIRST, A BEHIND THE SCENES CONVERSATION ON NEW MEXICO'S 2022 SHAKESPEARE FESTIVAL.

AFTER TONIGHT THERE ARE FIVE MORE SHOWS AT VETERANS MEMORIAL PARK OVER THE NEXT TWO WEEKENDS.

EARLIER THIS MONTH, I TALKED WITH THREE OF THE MINDS BEHIND THE FESTIVAL.

THEY TELL ME 400 YEARS LATER SHAKESPEARE IS STILL A VITAL PART OF OUR CULTURAL FABRIC.

PETER KIERST, ARTISTIC DIRECTOR, LET ME START WITH YOU.

WHY SHAKESPEARE, MY FRIENDS, WHY IS HE SO SO IMPORTANT IN OUR CULTURE AND WHY THIS NEW MEXICO SHAKESPEARE FESTIVAL PARTICULARLY IN OUR COMMUNITY?

>> Peter: SHAKESPEARE IS STILL BEING PRODUCED AFTER 400 YEARS.

SOMEBODY ONCE ESTIMATED THERE IS A SHAKESPEARE PRODUCTION ON STAGE SOMEWHERE ON PLANET EARTH AT EVERY MOMENT OF EVERYDAY, 365 DAYS OF THE YEAR.

AND THE REASON IS THAT WILL DOES THE WORK OF THE THEATER BETTER THAN OTHER PLAYWRIGHTS.

THE WORK OF THE THEATER IS TO SHOW US WHAT THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE IS LIKE.

SO, ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE GET UP AND SHOW ANOTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A PERSON AND WHAT IT IS LIKE TO GO THROUGH A HUMAN LIFE.

THAT IS WHAT THE THEATER IS FOR AND WILL SHAKESPEARE, BLESS HIM, DOES THAT BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE HAS EVER DONE IT.

BUT THE OTHER THING ABOUT IT, OF COURSE, IS THAT AFTER, TWO, THREE, 400 YEARS, HE IS WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, YOU KNOW.

HE IS PART OF THE CULTURAL LEGACY OF THE HUMAN RACE SO WHEN OUR AUDIENCE COMES OUT TO SEE THE PLAYS, WHEN YOU COME TO SEE KING LEAR OR AS YOU LIKE IT, YOU'RE NOT JUST SEEING A GREAT PLAY, RIGHT, BUT YOUR ALSO SEEING A GREAT PLAY THAT MILLIONS OF OTHER HUMANS HAVE BEEN WATCHING FOR THE LAST 400 YEARS.

SO IT TIES US ALTOGETHER IN A WAY THAT NO OTHER THEATER DOES.

SO, THAT IS THE SHORTEST VERSION OF THAT ANSWER I HAVE GOT.

AND FOR US, PARTICULARLY, IF I MIGHT, JUST FOR THE NEW MEXICO SHAKESPEARE FESTIVAL, TWO THINGS.

ONE IS WE BELIEVE COMPLETELY THAT THESE PLAYS ARE FOR EVERYONE.

AND SO THAT IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO US THAT THE FESTIVAL IS FREE.

THESE PLAYS ARE NOT FOR SOMEBODY ELSE, THEY ARE FOR YOU.

THEY ARE FOR EVERYONE.

AND SPEAK TO EVERYBODY.

AND THEY ARE ALSO -- THIS IS A NEW MEXICO SHAKESPEARE FESTIVAL.

THIS IS A HOME GROWN FESTIVAL BY NEW MEXICANS FOR NEW MEXICANS AND WE ARE REALLY DEEPLY COMMITTED TO THAT AND, OF COURSE, HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR PRODUCERS, CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE AND VORTEX THEATER BEING BEHIND THAT VISION.

>> GENE: I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR TAKE ON WHAT I SAW DESCRIBED ON THE WEBSITE ABOUT AS YOU LIKE IT, BUT I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT SHAKESPEARE MEANS TO YOU AND WHY YOU WANTED TO JUMP INTO THIS SITUATION AND JUST BE PART OF SOMETHING THAT IS SO INTERESTING FOR SO MANY PEOPLE.

>> JULIA: I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED SHAKESPEARE BUT I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD DIRECT IT.

UNTIL I REALIZED IT IS ACTUALLY RIGHT UP MY ALLEY.

A LOT OF SPECTACLE, A LOT OF BIG THINGS, A LOT OF MOVEMENT, A LOT OF -- SO, YEAH, I HAVE NOW EMBRACED IT.

I DID IT BECAUSE IT SCARED ME, QUITE FRANKLY.

>> GENE: I CAN IMAGINE.

UNDERSTANDING IT IS A COMPLICATED PLAY TO EVEN KIND OF DESCRIBE THE CHARACTERS AND STORY LINE IS, LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

IT COULD BE VERY INTERESTING BUT I HAVE HEARD IT DESCRIBED AS A PASTORAL COMEDY.

WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> JULIA: OH, IT IS PASTORAL.

YES, WE HAVE TREES, SO YOU CAN CALL IT PASTORAL.

IT IS A FOREST.

A VERY MAGICAL, MYTHICAL PLACE.

THERE IS A LOT OF MUSIC, THERE IS DANCING.

THERE IS YOUNG LOVERS.

THERE IS SOME ANIMOSITY BETWEEN BROTHERS.

YOU KNOW.

IT HAS KIND OF GOT IT ALL.

I KEEP SAYING TO THE CAST, IF YOU JUST PUT THE KITCHEN SINK RIGHT ON THE STAGE, THEN WE'LL HAVE COVERED ALL THE BASES.

BUT I MEAN IT IS SO FULL OF THAT KIND OF STUFF.

WE JOKE ABOUT IT BUT WE CALL IT THE PARTY SHOW OF 2022 SHAKESPEARE FESTIVAL BECAUSE IT IS MUSIC AND DANCING AND IT REALLY IS NOT COMPLICATED.

YOU'LL BE ABLE TO FIGURE IT OUT.

HONESTLY IT IS NOT THAT COMPLICATED.

IT ALL ENDS IN A BUNCH OF WEDDINGS, SPOILER ALERT, WITH SOME DANCING AND MUSIC.

>> GENE: IT IS A BIG SPACE, WHICH ACTUALLY AFFORDS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES, AS THEY SAY.

>> Debi: OR CHALLENGES AS THE CASE MAY BE.

>> Gene: I AM CURIOUS HOW YOU APPROACH THAT WITH A BIG OLE STAGE, ABSOLUTELY.

>> Debi: IT DOES CHANGE EVERYTHING WHEN YOU MOVE OUT ON TO THE ACTUAL STAGE.

IT IS A STAGE THAT WOULD PROBABLY, IF IT WERE FULL, WOULD SEAT 6 OR 700 PEOPLE.

THE STAGE ITSELF IS GIGANTIC, IT HAS GOT A GORGEOUS BACKDROP OF THE MOUNTAINS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE TRAFFIC NOISE, THINGS LIKE OTHER PEOPLE.

IT IS A PUBLIC PARK, PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO BE OUT THERE WHEN WE ARE PERFORMING SO IT HAS GOT ALL THE CHALLENGES OF OUTDOOR SHAKESPEARE AS WELL AS ALL THE BENEFITS.

BECAUSE AS PETER SAID, IT IS A BEAUTIFUL SPACE, A GREAT BACKGROUND.

THERE IS LOT OF ROOM FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND SIT AND HAVE PICNIC LUNCHES BUT THEY ALSO BRING CHILDREN AND THEIR DOGS AND THEY ALSO -- PEOPLE PLAY BALL IN THE PARK BEHIND THE STAGE AND IT IS CHALLENGING BUT IT IS A WHOLE NEW WORLD OF WONDERFUL AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE RAISED IN THEATERS THAT, YOU KNOW, ASK YOU TO TURN OFF YOUR CELL PHONES AND YOU DON'T TALK DURING A SHOW.

BUT, THIS IS THE WHOLE NEW THING.

THERE ARE CELL PHONES OUT THERE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT AND THERE ARE CHILDREN RUNNING AROUND AND PEOPLE ARE TALKING AND, YOU KNOW, SO ACTUALLY, IN ALL HONESTY, IT IS A LOT MORE LIKE SHAKESPEARE WAS PERFORMED IN HIS OWN DAY, PROBABLY.

THERE WAS A LOT MORE OF THAT TYPE OF THING IN THE OPEN AIR.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION.

IT IS ONE WE STARTED LAST WEEK ON THE SHOW BUT IT IS PERSISTENT AS A STORY THROUGH THE WEEK AND WE WANTED TO ADDRESS IT AGAIN.

IT ALL CENTERS AROUND MEDIA WAS TREATED AT A RECENT RALLY FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR GOVERNOR, MR. MARK RONCHETTI.

LAST WEEK WE TOLD YOU A REPORTER FROM SOURCE NEW MEXICO WAS DENIED CREDENTIALS AND WORSE THAN THAT WAS REMOVED WHEN HE TRIED TO ATTEND THE RALLY WITH A REGULAR TICKET.

SECURITY ID'D HIM WITH A PHOTOGRAPH.

NOW, A SPOKESMAN FOR THE RONCHETTI CAMPAIGN SAYS THE REPORTER WAS DENIED ACCESS BECAUSE, QUOTE, SOURCE NM IS A LIBERAL ADVOCACY GROUP NOT A LEGITIMATE NEWS ORGANIZATION END QUOTE.

START WHERE WE ENDED LAST WEEK.

MERRITT ALLEN, WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHO IS AND WHO ISN'T LEGITIMATE MEDIA?

>> Merritt: AS I SHARED, I GOT MY MEDIA RELATIONS TRAINING FROM THE U.S. NAVY.

AND THAT PERSPECTIVE IS WE HAVE A FREE PRESS AND FAIR AND FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION.

SO IT IS ON YOU AS THE SPOKESMAN TO MANAGE YOUR MESSAGE AS BEST YOU CAN, TELL THE TRUTH AND BE SMART ABOUT IT.

AND WE HAVE A FREE PRESS AND THEY ARE GOING TO WRITE WHAT THEY WRITE AND YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF THAT AND MANAGE THE RISK ACCORDINGLY.

THAT IS HOW WE DO IT.

IN MY PRIVATE SECTOR WORK, I TAKE THE SAME MINDSET AND THE WAY I SEE IT IS, IS THERE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RISK IN MEDIA ENGAGEMENT?

OF COURSE, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CONTROL -- WE ARE NOT A DICTATORSHIP, WE DON'T CONTROL WHAT PEOPLE WRITE.

BUT THE WAY THE AMERICAN PRESS WORKS, WE HAVE A FREE WORKING PRESS.

THEY DON'T TAKE BRIBES.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FREE PRESS.

SOME ARE BIASED ONE WAY.

SOME ARE BIASED ANOTHER WAY.

IF YOU'RE SMART, YOU KNOW THAT.

THE RONCHETTI CAMPAIGN KNOWS THAT, BUT HERE IS A TRUE FACT THAT HAS NEVER FAILED ME.

IF YOU THINK SOMEONE IS GOING TO WRITE A CRITICAL OR NEGATIVE STORY, THAT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE, IF YOU LET THEM AT YOUR EVENT.

IF YOU BAN THEM FROM YOUR EVENT, YOU ARE GUARANTEED THEY WILL WRITE A CRITICAL OR NEGATIVE STORY.

SO, I WOULD TAKE THE GAMBLE, LET THEM IN AND LET THEM ACTUALLY QUOTE YOU AND HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, RATHER THAN MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO ABSOLUTELY WRITE A HACK PIECE ON YOU AND MAKE MORE NEWS.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THIS HAS BECOME A NEWS EVENT IN AND OF ITSELF AND IT HAS GROWN MORE LEGS THAN WAS NECESSARY.

THIS WAS A VERY ROOKIE MISTAKE AND MADE A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLEHILL.

>> Gene: I HAVE TO AGREE COMPLETELY.

IF THEY HAD NOT DONE THIS, COME ON NOW.

LET'S TALK -- INEZ, THE IDEA OF PHOTOGRAPHING, HAVING A PHOTOGRAPH ON HAND OF A REPORTER TO MATCH TO KEEP THEM OUT, IS THIS WHAT WE CAN EXPECT FROM THE RONCHETTI ADMINISTRATION?

THAT IS A LITTLE HEAVY HANDED.

>> Inez: IT IS CREEPY.

THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN'T GO AS A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC TO SEE A CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR IS UNSETTLING AND THE FACT THEY WENT SO FAR AS TO MATCH SHAUN GRISWOLD'S FACE TO HIS PHOTO, THAT IS THE REPORTER FROM SOURCE NEW MEXICO, IS REALLY TROUBLING.

AND THERE IS NO SENSE THAT THE RONCHETTI CAMPAIGN THINKS THIS WAS A MISTAKE OR IS SORRY FOR IT IN ANY WAY.

I WAS JUST AS CONCERNED WITH THE IDEA THAT THE PRESS THAT WAS CREDENTIALED WERE CORRALLED INTO AN AREA.

THEY DIDN'T WANT THEM MINGLING WITH PEOPLE AND TALKING TO PEOPLE.

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?

THE WHOLE POINT OF GOING TO A RALLY ISN'T TO HEAR THE SAME CANNED STUFF FROM THE CANDIDATE.

IT IS TO TALK TO INDIVIDUALS AND SAY, HEY, WHY DO YOU LIKE THIS GUY?

SO, I THINK MEDIA CONTROL ON THE PART OF A ROOKIE CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR IS NOT A GOOD SIGN FOR HOW THAT PERSON WOULD PERFORM IN OFFICE.

SO, I HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, AS CAMPAIGN CONTINUES, THEY CHANGE HOW THEY DO THINGS.

>> Gene: SERGE, TO NAME NAMES HERE, ENRIQUE KNELL IS THE PERSON WHO WAS THE SPOKESPERSON WHO THE QUOTE WAS FROM, HE HAS BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME.

I WORKED WITH HIM BACK IN CONGRESSWOMAN WILSON'S OFFICE YEARS AGO.

HE KNOWS WHAT IS UP HERE.

THE QUESTION REMAINS, WHAT ARE THEY DOING HERE?

MR. RONCHETTI WORKED IN A NEWSROOM FOR TWO DECADES.

HE KNOWS EXACTLY HOW THIS WORKS.

WHY WOULD HE WANT THIS TAGGED ON HIM?

>> Serge: HE DOES KNOW EXACTLY HOW THIS WORKS.

THIS IS THE NEW OLD PLAYBOOK OF NIXON WHO WAS MAYBE NOT THE FIRST BUT FAMOUS, NEVER FORGET THE PRESS IS THE ENEMY, WRITE THAT ON THE BLACKBOARD 100 TIMES, TALKING TO KISSINGER.

IF YOU WOULD PAINT THE PRESS AS THE ENEMY, THAT IS A SAFE POLITICAL MOVE THESE DAYS.

IT IS ALL OVER THE REPUBLICAN PLAYBOOK THESE DAYS, TRY TO FIGHT A WAR WITH THE PRESS AND THEN PAINT YOURSELF AS VICTIM.

ANOTHER 60'S POLITICIAN, HUBERT HUMPHREY, FAMOUSLY SAID, IT IS ALWAYS A RISK TO TALK TO THE PRESES, THEY MIGHT REPORT WHAT YOU SAID.

SO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE HIDING OR WHAT THEY DON'T WANT BEING HEARD OR IF IT IS JUST A CALCULATED EFFORT TO CREATE A STORY.

IT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

I ASSUME THAT PLAYS TO A BIG PART OF RONCHETTI'S BASE, LIKE, YEAH, THE MEDIA IS THE ENEMY AND THEY DON'T LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: IT IS LIKE EMPTY CALORIES, LIKE A SNACK FOOD.

>> Serge: INCONSISTENT WITH HEALTHY DEBATES AND PUBLIC DISCOURSE AND WHATNOT.

POLITICS HAVE BEEN DIVORCED FROM HEALTHY PUBLIC POLICY FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

>> Merritt: HOW MANY TIMES HAS GOVERNOR LUJAN GRISHAM APPEARED ON PBS?

>> Gene: A BIG ZERO.

THAT IS A FAIR POINT.

THERE IS DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THIS.

SAY AGAIN.

SHE IS COMING NEXT WEEK.

WORD FROM THE BOOTH.

THERE YOU GO.

>> MERRITT: THE FIRST TIME.

I FIND OUR CURRENT GOVERNOR IS REMARKABLY INACCESSIBLE TO NEW MEXICO'S FREE PRESS.

SHE DOESN'T RESPOND TO PRESS REQUESTS, SHE IGNORES THEM.

SHE IS A BIG BELIEVER IN THE CANNED PRESS AVAILABILITY AND THAT IS A DIFFERENT WAY OF AVOIDING MEDIA SCRUTINY, SO, I AM NOT A FAN OF THAT EITHER.

>> Gene: LET'S GO BACK TO SENATOR PETE DOMENICI.

HE NEVER REALLY DEALT WITH A LOT OF PRESS WHEN IT WAS ELECTION SEASON, NEVER HAD TO SIT DOWN FOR DEBATES, ALL THAT KIND OF THING.

MERRITT, LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

IN DEFENSE OF ENRIQUE KNELL HERE, DOES HE HAVE A POINT?

THAT HE CITED THE MONEY GOING FROM THE PARENT ORGANIZATION TO SOURCE NEW MEXICO IS FROM AMERICAN FEDERATION OF STATE, COUNTY MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES AFSME AND THAT IS HIS REASON FOR THE HEARTBURN.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> Merritt: I WONDER AND I LIKE ENRIQUE AS WELL BUT I WONDER HOW THE CAMPAIGN WOULD HAVE FELT ABOUT A JOURNALIST SPONSORED BY THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION OR HILLSDALE COLLEGE?

>> Gene: EXCELLENT POINT, ESPECIALLY HERITAGE, EXACTLY RIGHT.

THEY WOULD BE ALL OVER IT IF THEY WALKED IN THE DOOR.

THIS IS INTERESTING.

WE HAVE TO SEE WHERE IT GOES.

I AGREE WITH MERRITT, THIS GOT BIGGER THAN IT SHOULD HAVE ONLY BECAUSE A LITTLE RED MEAT GOT THROWN OUT THERE FOR 10 MINUTES WORTH OF CHEWING AND NOW WE ARE HERE TWO WEEKS LATER.

THANK YOU TO OUR LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE TOPICS, NOT JUST THIS ONE, WE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

BEFORE WE GO, A LOOK BACK AT THE IMPACT OF THE LARGEST WILDFIRE IN STATE HISTORY, THE HERMIT'S PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE.

IT DESTROYED HUNDREDS OF HOMES ALONG WITH CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, WATER SYSTEMS, ACEQUIAS, POWER LINES, INTERNET SERVICE, CELL PHONE TOWERS, EVEN A NEW MEXICO PBS TRANSLATOR IN MORA THAT SENDS OUR SIGNAL ACROSS THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE.

WHILE LOSING A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT DOESN'T MATCH THE PERSONAL LOSS OF A HOME, IT CAN HAVE A WIDESPREAD IMPACT ON HOW PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO RECEIVE VALUABLE INFORMATION DURING A CRISIS.

THIS WEEK OUR LAND CREW TAKES US TO MORA WHERE OUR COLLEAGUES IN THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT HAVE HAD TO REBUILD.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> QUINN: WE ARE IN MORA, NEW MEXICO AND WE ARE SITTING ON TOP OF THE ONLY TRANSMISSION FACILITY IN THIS PART OF THE STATE.

SO, THE CALF CANYON AND HERMIT'S PEAKS FIRE SWEPT THROUGH THIS AREA AND BURNED THE ENTIRE FACILITY, 29 POWER POLES, ALL THE WIRES AND IT BURNED OUR FACILITY COMPLETELY TO THE GROUND, ASHES.

SO TOTAL DESTRUCTION.

SO WE KNEW THAT WE HAD A FEW FACILITIES IN THE STATE THAT WERE IN THE PATH OF THE FIRE AND THIS WAS ONE THAT WE EXPECTED TO LOSE.

THE DAY WE DID, THE WINDS WERE REPORTED TO BE IN EXCESS OF 70 MILES AN HOUR UP HERE AND THE FIRE SKIPPED THROUGH QUICKLY.

IT WAS THE WORST CASE SCENARIO FOR US.

FIRST THING IS, IT WAS SAD.

YOU COME UP TO AN AREA LIKE THIS AND THE LAND THAT HAS BEEN SO WELL TAKEN CARE OF BY THE OWNER, TO A FACILITY I HAVE COME TO FOR A DECADE.

I GOT TO KNOW THE ANIMALS, THIS IS A PLACE I WOULD COME AND HORNED LIZARDS WOULD COME OUT FROM UNDER THE BUILDING AND WE WOULD SEE ALL THAT AND NOW IT IS GONE.

IT IS INCREDIBLY SAD BUT THEN THE NEXT THING THAT COMES TO ME IS HOW DO WE GET IT BACK.

HOW DO WE GET BACK TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE AND HOW DO WE GET OPERATING AS QUICK AS WE CAN.

THAT IS WHAT WE DID, INSTEAD OF LAMENTING OUR LOSS.

WE LOOKED AT OUR FUTURE AND WE HAVE ALREADY SET A NEW BUILDING ON THE GROUND AND THERE IS NOT EVEN POWER ON THIS MOUNTAIN.

THE KNME TOWER IS RIGHT BEHIND US AND THE OTHER FACILITIES UP HERE, WE HAVE GOT STATE WEATHER, INTERNET SERVICE FOR THE AREA AND THEN MAJOR CARRIERS FOR THE CELL PHONES ARE IN THE OTHER TWO REMAINING TOWERS.

THE KNME TOWER HERE IS THE LAST LINK IN WHAT WE CALL A DAISY CHAIN.

WE FEED APACHE MESA, WHICH IS TECOLOTE, DIRECTLY FROM SANDIA CREST, AND THEN THAT, IN TURN, FEEDS TO THIS TOWER.

SO WHEN THIS TOWER WAS DOWN THERE WAS NO TELEVISION TO THE ENTIRE VALLEY.

THAT WOULD INCLUDE COMMERCIAL CARRIERS.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE VERY USED TO AND WE HAVE BEEN FOR A LONG TIME, WE TURN THE BUTTON.

THAT IS THE LAST THING WE DO.

IF IT DOESN'T WORK, WE GET A NEW MACHINE, BUT THERE IS AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

TO TURN MY ONE BUILDING ON HERE, RIGHT NOW I AM GOING TO -- JUST DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THIS, THERE HAS BEEN SEVERAL HUNDRED, TWO OR 300 HUNDRED PEOPLE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE EFFORT THAT JUST ALLOWS US TO STAND ON THE TOP OF THIS HILL TODAY.

THERE IS PEOPLE GOING FORWARD FROM INSURANCE COMPANIES, ALL THE SUPPLIERS OF EQUIPMENT WE USE.

THIS IS MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF EQUIPMENT HERE TO TURN IT ON TO PROVIDE A SIGNAL, FOR ENTERTAINMENT OR EDUCATION FOR PEOPLE.

IT SEEMS EASY BUT THERE IS A FULL-TIME 365 DAY A YEAR COMMITMENT TO THE WORK THAT IS REQUIRED TO MAKE US RELIABLE.

YOU CAN SEE THE POWER LINES CUT, TO A DEGREE, THROUGH PROPERTIES, TO PROVIDE SOME EASEMENT, ONE FOR CONSTRUCTION, THE OTHER IS TO GIVE A BUFFER FROM FIRES.

THE SAME THING HAPPENS ON THE HILLTOP.

WE DON'T JUST CLEAR THEM OUT FOR EASE FOR US, BUT WE CLEAR THEM OUT TO KEEP FIRE BACK.

THE AREAS ARE TYPICALLY MAINTAINED LOW BRUSH.

WE TRY TO FIND AREAS THAT CAN TAKE A FIRE AND THEN BOUNCE RIGHT BACK.

YOU CANNOT PROTECT COMPLETELY ESPECIALLY IN A FORESTED ENVIRONMENT, BUT YOU CAN MITIGATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN BY BEING A GOOD TENANT AND THEN HAVING -- JUST HAVING A PLAN IN PLACE FOR WHEN IT HAPPENS.

WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE FOREST FIRES LIKE THIS.

AS THE CLIMATE IS DRYER, THEY ARE GOING TO BE WORSE.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE MORE OUT OF CONTROL.

WE NEED TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF OUR FORESTS AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE, WHEN IT IS OUT OF SIGHT, IT IS OUT OF MIND, BUT WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT WHAT IS OVER THAT HILL AND HOW CAN WE PREPARE FOR THE SUPER FIRE THAT IS COMING THROUGH HERE TOMORROW.

>> Gene: FINAL THOUGHTS HERE AND A QUICK QUESTION.

SO, WHAT EXACTLY COMES NEXT IN THIS HOMELESS ENCAMPMENT SAGA.

LINES HAVE BEEN DRAWN BETWEEN THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR'S OFFICE.

THE COMMUNITY WANTS ACTION, RIGHT NOW.

THERE IS NO SECTOR OF THE CITY THAT HASN'T BEEN TOUCHED BY THE UNHOUSED LOOKING TO GET THROUGH THE NIGHT.

IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MAP KOAT'S WEBSITE THAT SHOWS ALL THE ENCAMPMENTS AROUND THE CITY, IT IS NOT JUST A DOWNTOWN PROBLEM.

IN MY INTERVIEW WITH COUNCILOR BASSAN IT IS CLEAR WE ARE NOW MOVING INTO AN ENFORCEMENT STAGE, MEANING PARKS ARE GOING TO BE CLEARED WE ARE HEARING.

ALLEYS DOWNTOWN SCRUBBED OF THE UNHOUSED AND THE LIKE.

THE CORONADO PARK CLEARING WAS JUST THE BEGINNING.

THE COMMUNITY, PARTICULARLY THE BUSINESS OWNERS IN OUR CITY, ARE LOOKING FOR MORE VIGOR IN THE APPROACH, BUT A QUESTION BEGS, WHERE ARE WE GOING TO JAIL ALL THESE UNHOUSED TRESPASSERS AND LAWBREAKERS?

EVEN BEFORE WE GET TO THE ISSUE OF UNDERSTAFFED JAILS LIKE WE COVERED EARLIER IN THE SHOW, THE IDEA OF PARADING POTENTIALLY MANY HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TO EITHER PAY FINES OR GO TO JAIL, IN AN ALREADY OVERTAXED LEGAL SYSTEM DOESN'T SEEM WORKABLE LONG-TERM.

IT SEEMS CLEAR NOW THAT WE HAVE A SERIOUS DISCONNECTION BETWEEN THE MAYOR'S GOALS AND CITY COUNCIL'S GOALS ON THIS.

THE CLOSING OF CORONADO PARK HAS ONLY INCREASED THAT TENSION AND SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE HERE.

WE ARE ONLY TALKING 1500 TO 2,000 PEOPLE.

THIS ISN'T SAN FRANCISCO.

IF IT IS RESOURCES WE NEED, WE ARE SWIMMING IN CASH.

WE HAVE THE MEANS, PERHAPS IT IS A MATTER OF THE WILL AT THIS POINT.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.