New Mexico In Focus
ABQ Zoo's Elephant Enclosure Criticized
Season 15 Episode 45 | 30m 40sVideo has Closed Captions
Albuquerque Zoo was recently ranked second worst in the U.S. for elephant habitats.
Animal Rights Group In Defense of Animals, IDA, recently ranked the Albuquerque Zoo as second worst in the U.S. for elephant habitats, in part because of a pair of recent deaths. Host Gene Grant talks with Brittany Michelson of IDA to learn more about what the criticisms involve and what changes the group would like to see.
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New Mexico In Focus is a local public television program presented by NMPBS
New Mexico In Focus
ABQ Zoo's Elephant Enclosure Criticized
Season 15 Episode 45 | 30m 40sVideo has Closed Captions
Animal Rights Group In Defense of Animals, IDA, recently ranked the Albuquerque Zoo as second worst in the U.S. for elephant habitats, in part because of a pair of recent deaths. Host Gene Grant talks with Brittany Michelson of IDA to learn more about what the criticisms involve and what changes the group would like to see.
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipGENE: Thank you, Kevin.
Really appreciate it.
Hey guys, Facebook Live time.
Thanks for joining us.
Let me just hit that little button there… Yeah, my name is Gene Grant.
I'm joined today by Brittany Michelson of In Defense of an… In Defense of Animals.
That's a well-known organization in the United States, as we're looking out for animal welfare across a number of places, including zoos.
And, as you might know, we had a quite the discussion a couple of weeks ago about the criticism leveled at the Albuquerque Biopark, by the organization, where In Defense of Animals ranked our zoo second worst for elephants, in health habitats in the country, of all the zoos out there.
Brittany, I’ve got a million questions.
First of all, thank you for joining us.
Tell us about the organization real quick, what you guys do and how long you've been doing it?
BRITTANY: Sure, so my name is Brittany Michelson and I am the captive animals campaigner for In Defense of Animals, IDA, and the organization started back in 1983.
And it's an international animal advocacy and protection organization that is based in northern California, but it's international.
And we do work on behalf of animals in all different areas, all forms and types of animal exploitation.
So, animals who are exploited for food and for clothing and for entertainment and for testing, medicine and and all of it.
We cover everything and we're a comprehensive organization and my role is, I run campaigns and advocacy for captive animals.
That is doing work on behalf of animals who are exploited in zoos, circuses, marine parks, the pet trade and so forth.
GENE: That's a lot.
It's a lot of coverage.
I should note, by the way, we did reach out to the Biopark folks to join us in this discussion.
They declined.
Perhaps we might be able to get them at another time.
We're going to keep trying, because we do want to hear their side of it, elephants in particular.
God, I’ve got a million questions, beyond Albuquerque's deal.
I want to get later to a trend that I see forming nationally and internationally about our attitudes about elephant enclosures and such, but let me, let's start here with Albuquerque.
What are the unique challenges here in Albuquerque that you guys saw, besides… talk about the criticism and how it just sort of stacks up against other zoos out there.
BRITTANY: Sure.
So, the main red flags about the Albuquerque Biopark Zoo was the fact that they had two very young elephants that died within a week, in the winter.
So, they had a three-year-old elephant named Thorne who died on Christmas day.
And then, within a week, an eight-year-old elephant named Jazmine passed away.
And they died of EEHV which is the herpes virus strain that elephants contract.
But, the fact that the zoo had two very young elephants, they died extremely prematurely, that caught our attention.
Not to mention the fact that every baby elephant that has been born at the Albuquerque Biopark has died from this disease, from EEHV.
So, there's something wrong here, when we have multiple, young, very young elephants passing away.
And they have a breeding program at this zoo, so something is certainly amiss.
That was a big red flag for us and prompted us to investigate further.
We were wondering, “Well, why are these deaths repetitive?
Why does this keep happening?” Another major concern is the size of their enclosure.
It's much too small for a herd of elephants.
It is pretty barren and it's right next to a busy highway.
So, the elephants are constantly subjected to traffic noise, of course the noise from the zoo spectators, as well, and construction noises from expansion and projects within the zoo.
And so, these elephants really don't have any peace there.
They're subjected to a lot of noise and the enclosure is restrictive.
We observed stereotypical behaviors, behaviors that are indicative of stress.
So, elephants pacing and swaying and so forth and those are, those are the two major reasons, along with the fact that this zoo has a breeding program, that is just replicating the issues I just mentioned.
GENE: Are these, are these infant deaths that unusual compared to other zoos?
Is it appreciably more?
BRITTANY: EEHV is found in, more often found in captive elephants.
It has been more largely detected in zoo elephants, elephants that are captive in zoo environments.
There are certain zoos that have more of an issue, certainly, more of an issue than others.
The Albuquerque Biopark is one of them.
They, every elephant that's been born at this facility has, every baby has died.
So, there's a big issue going on here and we would like to see them stop their breeding program and release the elephants that they have now to an accredited, reputable sanctuary to live out the remainder of their lives in a much more natural, much more peaceful setting and to close their elephant exhibit.
That's what IDA is asking these zoos to do.
Elephants have no place in zoos.
They are the largest land mammal, one of the most intelligent species on the planet.
They're incredibly, emotionally complex and they really suffer in zoos.
GENE: This is the part I've been reading about a lot, is the emotional part.
Let's talk about this a little bit.
You know, again, as a layperson, it's difficult to sort of separate the idea that, “Oh, I'm a patron.
These elephants are so amazing.
I just want to go see and bring my kids,” and all this and that, but I've learned a lot about… let's talk about from the bottom up.
How much elephants communicate and feel the world literally through their feet, in the pads of their feet.
And I was blown away reading some of this, honestly, because it really got across what you were saying.
In a small enclosure, I don't understand how an elephant could have any kind of emotional nourishment.
If so much is communicated through their feet, being in such a small enclosure.
Am I off on that?
Is that, is that a problem, or am I misreading that?
BRITTANY: No, you're definitely correct.
Elephants are very emotionally in tune and they have sensitive hearing.
They feel vibrations, sound vibrations through their feet.
Seismic vibrations.
And they are definitely very limited in a zoo enclosure, where they don't have the space to really interact the way that they choose to interact.
They can't get space from each other when they want to and so forth.
And like I mentioned earlier, with the busy highway right beside the elephant enclosure at Albuquerque Biopark Zoo, the elephants are just subjected to a lot of noise and they really belong in a very expansive, peaceful setting, where they can just enjoy a relaxing environment.
GENE: I'll come to that in a quick sec.
For sanctuaries, that's an interesting point there, you know.
This idea of, again, I want to expand on this idea of the sensitivity of elephants.
There's such a rush to get elephants out of the zoo there, is that the explosions in the gunfire are highly impactful on an elephant's hearing.
Talk about their hearing and their capacity and what they're able to sort of glean.
Why we do have to be careful, because when folks hear you say there's a busy road, you know, they think of it in human terms, you know what I mean?
Like, we deal with this all the time.
Talk about that from an elephant's perspective, what we're hearing and etc.
BRITTANY: Well, just in the way that many animal species have more acute hearing than humans, elephants hear in greater, in a greater capacity than we do and for far greater distances.
I don't know the exact range, but they have a more acute, sensitive hearing than we do.
And so, anything that is going on vibrationally, certainly, in Ukraine with, you know, all of the effects of the war, they're definitely impacted on a far greater scale than we are.
And so, and they're sensitive and they get stressed and they can't escape it.
They don't have anywhere to go, you know.
In the wild, they roam, they roam for miles and miles a day.
And so, in captivity, the elephants who are in captivity, the best possible scenario is to have them at sanctuaries where there's far more space there's acres of land and a much more natural, relaxing environment, where they can just be elephants and they can interact the way that they want to interact.
They can choose who they want to socialize with and how they form their herds and so forth, because that's another issue in zoos, is that elephants are very social.
So, they should never be alone and there are certain zoos that have solitary elephants.
And that's a big problem.
But, in social environments, in zoos, sometimes they put elephants together that really they wouldn't choose to be together in a setting where they have that choice.
They, because they don't always get along, just like with humans.
We don't always get along with each other and we should have the choice and you know in terms of who to socialize with and that's just not really available to them in a zoo environment.
GENE: Yeah, my understanding is there were two sanctuaries in the country, one in Tennessee and one of the northwest part of the, of our country.
Do I have that right?
BRITTANY: Yes, Tennessee and northern California, the elephant sanctuary of Tennessee and PAWS in northern California.
That's right.
That was it.
GENE: Sorry about that.
What makes up a sanctuary?
Is there a certain minimum amount of acreage or what would you folks consider as an appropriate sanctuary for elephants?
BRITTANY: That's a great question.
I'm not sure in terms of numbers of actual acreage what the requirement is or what the parameter is, but basically it's a much more natural environment.
At zoos there's a lot of concrete.
There's a lot of fencing.
There's a lot of artificial, even at some zoos, they have a wire or some kind of artificial material wrapped around trees, so that the elephants don't destroy the foliage.
And this, by the way is also evident at Albuquerque Biopark.
They have trees blocked off from the elephants, so that the elephants, elephants they want to forage.
They want to, you know, they're very strong.
Their trunks can pull down branches and they should be able to do that, but they're often restricted from doing that in zoos.
So, at sanctuaries they have much more space.
It's just much more remote, much more remote environment, more peaceful there.
They don't have all the visitors coming in like at the zoo.
There's so many people, little kids screaming and people taking pictures, and it's just, it's really not pleasant for the elephants.
So, a sanctuary is about the elephant's best interest.
Sanctuaries put the animals first.
Zoos sell tickets and whether or not people want to believe it, a zoo is a business they're selling tickets and their, you know, their mission is to, you know, make ticket sales.
And so, a lot of times they will dupe the public into thinking that it's all about conservation, but you know, when you dig deeper there are a lot of issues with zoos.
GENE: Yeah, we're going to come back to that conservation piece here in a quick second.
Are there any more sanctuaries that you folks are aware of that are being planned at this point?
BRITTANY: There are a number of sanctuaries for elephants in the world, like the global sanctuary for elephants in Brazil.
There's elephant nature park in Thailand.
There's Cambodia wildlife sanctuary.
There are elephant sanctuaries in different regions.
In the U.S., there's the Tennessee elephant sanctuary and PAWS, performing animal welfare society is what paws stands for.
They take in elephants that have been retired from circuses, that have been retired from performing.
And so, those, you know, there are places that call themselves sanctuaries, such as a facility in Fredericksburg, Texas, that is our hall of shame entry for the 2021 ten worst zoos list.
The preserve is a sham sanctuary, basically.
They call themselves a, you know, about the preserve, but that's not at all the case.
And we called them out for their deception and they are, they're not one of the ten, but they are, we had a dishonorable mention and a hall of shame entry as well for our list.
GENE: You know, we're used to the idea of sanctuary around here, as you probably know.
We've had a number of chimps that have been in lab testing facilities and, you know, the idea of sanctuary is not a new idea in New Mexico, but I'm curious, another ignorant question.
Is it, in the United States, I can understand the other places you mentioned, Thailand, South America, there's an almost, a habitat, if I'm being correct here, that's somewhat similar.
Are we limited here in the United States for habitats, for a sanctuary for elephants?
Are there places that are just too hot, too dry?
How limited are we for creating space for elephants here in the States?
BRITTANY: Well, I don't think that we're that limited.
It's just that in Southeast Asia, for example, there are so many elephants that are used in the logging industry and in the trekking industry.
And so many elephants are end up being rescued and retired from those industries.
And, they'll end up in the sanctuaries in Thailand and Cambodia.
So, here we need to really focus on getting zoos to, I mean, really push for zoos to retire their elephants to sanctuaries and close their exhibits.
GENE: I would say that you know this the sanctuary movement will only continue to grow and there will be more, more and more emphasis on sanctuaries, the more that is exposed about zoos and how elephants really do suffer in zoos, I think this will just only grow.
But, that brings us back to your call and others that we should just be closing elephant exhibits.
There have been a number of closings.
I mean, a lot of closings over the past 20 years or so, but then again, we seem to be filling up zoos, you know, almost like it's a commodity.
I believe, you know, it's like, “Well, we'll just go buy some more female elephants, because all these infants are dying,” and it just seems to me, and again, a layman's point of view here, that we're just going in circles here when it comes to elephants.
That, you know, the science clearly shows there's a problem with infant mortality.
Why is it that we're just trying to solve the problem with just shipping in with females and it just keeps going, nothing seems to get solved here.
Are we going to eventually have a point here… what I'm leading up to… where zoos eventually do close these exhibits to the public, despite that ticket sale angle that you were talking about a little bit earlier?
BRITTANY: Well, I really hope so.
That's our goal and that is truly what needs to happen, because these animals, they need far more space and they need a much more natural environment for all the reasons that I mentioned.
And so, breeding them and zoos will say it's for conservation to save the species, but what's really happening is they are suffering and this suffering is being perpetuated and replicated with breeding.
So, it's, it really is not good.
It's not a good idea and it's not in the elephant's best interest, certainly.
GENE: I mentioned, 28 zoos have already closed or pledged to close their elephant exhibits.
Is this picking up steam?
BRITTANY: Oh yeah, definitely, definitely, because more and more people and the zoos themselves are realizing that the public is more and more against elephant captivity, captivity in zoos, in general.
You know, for animals in general but looking at different species because elephants, the largest land mammal, one of the most intelligent species, very emotionally complex, people are really on to the fact that that, you know, these animals are especially suffering in zoos.
And, I mean, I can add all kinds of other animals that also suffer in zoos, but we're focusing on elephants here.
They just, zoos cannot meet their needs.
That's just plain and simple and there are zoos like the Phoenix Zoo that's on our list that have one elephant and that is very unfortunate, because elephants are highly social.
GENE: Interesting.
We're talking to Brittany Michelson of In Defense of Animals, talking about that report being released a couple weeks ago about the Albuquerque Biopark and the zoo, and the elephant enclosure.
There's a couple more questions, Brittany, if we, if we could.
Are there any zoos out there doing it right, that we could point out?
BRITTANY: That's a common question and our answer, our belief at In Defense of Animals is that, no, because of what I just mentioned, that zoos, they always fall short of what elephants truly need.
They just, they do not have the space.
They do not have a natural enough environment.
They do not have what allows elephants to truly thrive.
Now, obviously, you know, you know, we'd love to see elephants just free roaming, free and wild, you know, out in the wild where they belong.
But, the ones that are captive, our goal is to send them to sanctuaries, because at least sanctuaries can far better provide a happy and, you know, relaxing life and just much better provide for the elephant's needs than a zoo can.
So, even, you know, certain zoos who might be trying to do what they can and trying their best and making changes and adjustments, it's just, it's sort of futile because they just don't have what really is needed for this type of animal to thrive.
GENE: I can imagine, I mean we're talking about animals that roam 50, up to 50 miles a day.
I just, I can't even imagine, you know, going in circles in that enclosure at the zoo.
Every time I think about it, I just, just get ill, you know.
And our new understanding of sentient beings and the kind of things they go through, I think, this is informing this discussion a lot, that people are realizing, like you said, they're very complex beings and they're suffering.
I mean, there's just no other way to say it.
You cannot take something that large, fly at 20 hours with a couple of stops on an airplane and expect everything just to work out.
Which leads me to another question, I'm concerned, I'm curious about trauma and moving elephants, is there a concern about trauma moving elements, even into sanctuary?
Is there any kind of thing, after you've been in an enclosure for so many years?
What happens when an elephant finally does have a little more space?
BRITTANY: Well that's a great question and that is something that zoo officials will often use as a defense to keeping the elephants in zoos, that they often come back and say, “Well, this elephant is so used to living here.
This is the elephant's home for the last 30 years and so moving the elephant would be traumatic, or it would, you know, it would be too stressful.” But honestly, the benefits definitely outweigh the risks.
Animals are adaptable and animals thrive when they have more space and they have a more natural environment.
So, transporting them is not, it's worth it to transport them and there have been many success stories of elephants or animals being transported to sanctuaries, where, you know, the zoos had said, “Oh, they shouldn't be moved.
They need to stay here.
It's their home.” And then, it's, it's completely fine and they're far happier.
So, that's definitely a good question to ask, is something that we hear a lot of, is that zoos will say, “Oh, they… it's too risky.” And, I do want to mention, just, and I don't know if you had learned about this part of our report in the ten worst zoos, but this year we were learning for 2021, we were largely focusing on a brain study that was done by somebody named Bob Jacobs who's a professor of neuroscience at Colorado College and he did a big study on elephant brains and extensive research and we quote him and cite him in our list and in our entries.
And he found that not only does the zoo environments create psychological issues for elephants, because of the stress and the impoverished environments, but it actually physically changes the neurons in their brains, creating actual physical brain damage.
And so, this is a really eye-opening study, that definitely is gaining some traction, that people need to really be aware of.
GENE: It's, to that degree, it's causing physical brain damage, that is worth reading into.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna dig into that a little bit more.
That's, that's… I'm kind of fascinated by that.
One of the other things that that distresses me Brittany, when I read about it, is this idea of zoos swapping elephants, to either might make room for more females, or if somebody needs a female over here in this other city.
And while that's happening you what, whatever little family thing they might have just gets busted apart completely.
And I just, sometimes I think, you know, the AZA is doing what it's thinks it's the right thing.
And you know, does… I just… something about that is very distressing to me, that you have these elephants, that the one little thing of emotional support they have, just because of economics, they're gone, you know what I mean.
Just something about that.
Are we seeing an end game coming here, because of this?
I0s that a sign when zoos are like swapping elephants that something is like clearly not headed in the right direction here?
BRITTANY: Yeah, that's one of the major issues with zoos in general, with animals, is that they do, they break up families, they break up groups.
They'll ship animals from zoo to zoo and it's devastating for the animals and it's not right to do that, but because they will send an elephant to another zoo for breeding, you know, they'll send a male to the zoo who is who's viable for breeding.
They'll send different animals to different locations and they ship them and it's stressful and it causes issues.
That's one of the main problems with zoos among many others Gene: Finally, I'm curious, your organization's take on international law.
Boy, when you read into the elephant trade it's just this disgusting money you know handing over and you know a lot of made-up stories about why elephants need to be removed from their home areas and brought to the states for zoos.
That turned out to be not truth.
I mean, what's going on in Washington, D.C. here, when it comes to international policy of bringing in elephants, because it seems awfully loose from my read.
That, you know, as long as you get the money, you can get away with pretty much anything when it comes to elephants at this point.
BRITTANY: Yeah, exactly.
It is much too loose.
It is not handled in the way that it should be and it is not managed the way that it should be.
And so, yeah there are basically animal laws are far too loose in general in society.
Animal cruelty laws are far too loose and that's something that we work on at In Defense of Animals, is trying to really get the animal rights laws more pronounced and get them to become stronger in legislation, to get legislation to pass that protects non-human animals.
And so, that's something that is growing and it is changing slowly and it depends… in our country it depends on the state.
You know, California is, you know, far more progressive than Texas, for example, when it comes to animal cruelty laws.
But we have a long way to go.
So, I can't speak specifically to the international laws with like elephant transport at the moment, but it's something that is on our radar and that is certainly you know changing, but a little too slowly.
GENE: It's, it's a deep issue.
That's a deep, deep issue, especially when you talk about foreign countries, because even over there you've got lots of layers of people with their hands out to give money.
So, it's a very tricky story to nail down exactly and that's something else, is that, you know, they will say, “Oh these elephants will be taken care of in this zoo in the United States.
The elephant will be provided for and it's conservation,” but it's like, “Well, they're taking the elephants out of their natural home shipping them, you know, across the world and putting them in an artificial environment.” It's awful for the animals themselves.
What can a regular citizen do, besides not go to the zoo?
Is there a way to, you know, let their feelings known locally, internationally, about elephants, and how this all works?
BRITTANY: Yeah, great question.
Certainly not supporting zoos and spreading the word to everybody that you know family and friends, to not buy a ticket.
And joining any local protests or advocacy efforts against zoos.
There are animal rights groups in every city and there are zoo protests also.
I mean, the main thing is to just raise awareness and to try to use our voices as much as we can for the non-human animals and to educate people, because there's a lot of propaganda that zoos put out to the public, you know.
Conservation and well, “but children need to learn about these animals.
How else will children learn about these wild animals,” you know, but that's not fair to the animals.
Just because humans want to you know, because people want to take their kids to see them, that doesn't make it right.
And, you know, there are books, there's the internet, there's virtual, all kinds of virtual things now and technological things where there are other ways to learn about them.
And, you know, it's not really fair to confine and deprive animals just so that we people can learn about them and see them.
So, GENE: It's an unfair trade, isn't it?
It really is very unfair to the elephant.
I just, when you think about their size, their complexity, their needs, their emotional needs, I mean, and we're surprised infanticide is happening, you know what I mean?
And that, they're… do these elephants are doing things that would never ever happen in the wild, that you'd think that would be the tip off right there, that we're off track here somehow guys.
I wanted to know, also just a reminder, we did and invite the Albuquerque Biopark folks to join us in this conversation.
They did decline.
We'll try to catch up with them again, in fairness, perhaps next week or later this week.
So, we'll let you know, but for right now, Michelle, I'm sorry, Brittany Michelson of In Defense of Animals, thank you so much for your time.
I know we took a lot of time from you today, but it's a topic that we're getting a lot of feedback on.
It took a lot of people by surprise because we don't think about these things.
It's just the zoo's the zoo, you know, critical eye, but thank you so much.
And if we could, maybe we could follow up with you at some point in the organization, if things are moving down the road here in Albuquerque, at some point.
BRITTANY: Absolutely, thank you so much, Gene.
I very much appreciate you and Kevin and just your interest in this topic.
Thank you for taking the time to speak with me and thank you for helping to make a stand for the elephants.
GENE: Appreciate that, absolutely folks.
We'd love to hear your opinion as well.
Please feel free to add in the thread comment below or anyplace else you might want to let us know what's happening.
Until Friday night 7 o'clock, channel 5.1, take care.
Stay out of the wind.
We'll see you later on.

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