>> major funding for reporters roundtable is provided by -- RW Jay Barnabas health.

Rowan University, educating New Jersey leaders, partnering with New Jersey businesses, transforming New Jersey's future.

♪ David: as the president continues the flood the zone offense, who is out there playing defense?

hey everybody, it's reporters roundtable.

I'm David Cruz.

Our panel includes Colleen oh date from NJ spotlight news.

Gillotti Gibson, NJ advanced media.

Daniel Han, reporter for Politico NJ.

We will pick their brains in a minute.

Let's start today by extending that sports metaphor to our current political climate.

The new administration has been extreme he active with executive orders, policy changes, and more.

Most of it ending up in court and a lot of it involving groups like the ACLU.

The executive director of the ACLU New Jersey joins us now.

Welcome.

>> thanks for having me.

David: good to see you again.

Where to begin?

have you ever seen this kind of assault on the tenets of democracy?

>> you know, we have been preparing for well over a year for this sort of an assault.

What we are seeing is that the Trump Administration is going after pretty much every right and freedom that we hold dear.

It's going after the structural things about our Constitution that makes our democracy great.

That includes things like separation of powers and checks and balances and states rights.

We are seeing an orders regard from the Trump Administration about our rights, communities, freedoms, and those things that make our country the democracy that it is.

David: you've been through this once before.

With this president.

What's different now, if anything?

>> the first Trump Administration, the ACLU was on the front lines.

We filed 400 30 legal actions against the Trump Administration in round one.

We are better and more prepared to go toe to toe with the administration again.

From day one, we've been filing lawsuit after lawsuit.

What's different now is that the Trump Administration has mutated in a way.

It is stronger, smarter.

He is surrounded by people that are loyal to his agenda.

They are getting started right off the block.

We saw him with executive action after executive action from day one.

David: Liz Cheney during that first go around.

No one in the Republican Party this time to stand up.

Democrats still seem to be searching for a message.

>> listen, that's why we need strong state leadership right now.

We are counting on states to be what I'm calling the firewall for freedom.

Against the onslaught of injustice we are seeing from the Trump Administration.

When we can't rely on the federal government, we need states to step up to the plate and do whatever we can to protect our people.

So we are seeing a failure of leadership from the federal government.

We are seeing opportunities pass us and Congress basically creating the infrastructure for Trump's mass deportation scheme by passing things like the leak in Ray Liotta.

-- Lincoln Riley act.

We need to make sure states are protecting the residence as much as they can.

David: the you have any confidence in what you call strong state leadership?

you've got already several of even the Democrats who are running for governor backing off.

Not only questions about D.E.I.

and protections for immigrants but just a certain kind of stepping aside and saying, we will deal with the new president when we get in office.

>> my message to candidates is, we cannot wait and see.

We are already seeing the harms of this administration and already we are playing catch up with the administration.

At the ACLU, we don't observe the atrocities.

We don't admire the problem.

We step into action.

That's why you saw us within 90 minutes of the president signing the executive order to end birthright citizenship, we filed the first lawsuit against the administration.

We are filing lawsuit after lawsuit and stepping up to protect our state residents in our country's residence.

David: so far, the court challenges have all been mostly successful.

Is this headed to the Supreme Court?

>> I think some of them well.

Some of them will.

I have faith that the Supreme Court will end the attempt to end birthright citizenship.

I don't think we are going to see the Supreme Court hold Trump's executive order.

There are many other things that I'm concerned about with this Supreme Court and with our federal courts generally.

We are going to win some and lose some but we need people to demonstrate strong leadership all across the country.

Can't just be the ACLU and groups like us.

We need governors, lawmakers, local politicians and leaders as well.

David: I'm running out of time.

I wanted to get a couple panel questions in here.

Colleen, you had a question?

>> yeah.

Hi.

The United States Attorney General sued New York yesterday.

We heard, primarily because they allow undocumented residents to get licenses, that is something we do in New Jersey.

Do you expect that we will wind up getting sued?

what do you think the outcome of this will be?

>> let me just say, states do not have to be complicit or expend resources towards federal purposes.

So the U.S. Attorney General, when she says that she's going to go after states that don't comply with federal law, that upsets the basic tenants of states rights and the 11th of meant -- the 10th amendment dealing with states rights.

All the other things that we are holding dear in terms of state constitutional law.

So we don't have to be complicit with the federal government's deportation scheme.

Even if the U.S. Attorney General comes after a state like New Jersey, I think we are on solid ground to say that we don't have the requirement to be complicit with something that we don't want to be complicit with.

Also that we are protecting state residents which is what lawmakers in New Jersey were sworn to do.

David: quick question before we let him go?

>> yeah.

Just a follow-up question on the 10th amendment.

A lot of these people who identify these places as sanctuary cities and states.

Specifically something known as the anti-commandeering doctrine.

Can you talk to us about that?

>> yeah.

Anti-commandeering means that we cannot be forced to do the federal government's dirty work.

The federal government is trying to use bully tactics right now to try to commandeer states to obey and prematurely comply with things and a worldview that the Trump Administration hold.

What we are saying is, build the firewall for freedom.

You are well within your constitutional rights to protect your residence against the onslaught of injustice that we are seeing from the Trump Administration.

David: lastly, can we talk about Elon Musk?

he has worked his way into the Oval Office unlike any other nonelected official that I can remember.

Can you explain the danger of this guy being unleashed on the government and what the impact could be on regulations for instance.

Everything from the environment to business practices.

>> fits incredibly dangerous what we are seeing right now.

An unelected billionaire with the world's largest megaphone infiltrating the highest offices of our government.

He's having communications with world leaders and dictating policy.

He a shadow president.

Maybe not so much in the shadows.

What we are doing at the ACLU is we are requesting as many -- as much information as we can about the so-called Department of government efficiency and we are trying to find out what they are doing in terms of surveillance.

Right now, we are hearing that Elon Musk has access to private data of every single resident of the United States potentially.

So we want to make sure that we are holding all government actors including folks like Elon Musk accountable.

We are aware of what they are doing with the data and what they intend to do with that data so that our privacy and rights and democracy are not at risk.

David: blocking and tackling for justice.

Good to see you again.

Thanks for coming on.

>> thank you for having me.

Take care.

David: all right, panel.

Good to see all of you.

Let's pick up their where we left off.

We've been reporting on this overhaul of the parole process which we didn't get a chance to talk about with him.

Where is that right now?

>> yeah.

Basically, Governor Murphy mentioned some things about parole reform in his state of the state address.

Apparently there is supposed to be a bill on deck.

At the time I wrote the article, it doesn't look like there's a bill on deck yet.

Basically what this proposed reform would do is it would ease up on a lot of the technical infractions that people get for parole violations.

Things like housing, not being able to find housing.

They would also graduate those technical violations.

Instead of having a violation and being sent immediately back to incarceration, there's more of a one strike, to strike thing.

There's also more of a call by the office of the public defender to connect these people with social services and resources if they are unable to find housing and things of that nature.

David: talk about parole reform.

The immigrant trust act.

Democrats appear to be disinclined to push anything they think might be controversial including those things I just mentioned.

Our progressives and retreat -- are progressives in retreat?

>> I guess it depends on who you consider a progressive.

There's a lot of progressives that are working hard.

The regular Democrats let's say.

I think they've been in something of a retreat.

We've seen things happen in the state that were surprising such as cutting back of the open Public records act last year.

I wasn't surprised to hear the governor mention parole reform.

It is something that's been talked about.

Given the fact that the legislature has been introducing bills to beef up penalties for people for various crimes, I'm not sure how well that will do in the legislature once a bill is introduced.

David: yeah.

During the past week, we heard Steve Sweeney, Josh Gottheimer, even Mikey Cheryl to a certain extent.

Talking back or stepping back from their support for things like the immigrant trust act.

Is it safer now for Democrats to say these things out loud because of the current political climate?

>> look, you are talking about the Democratic candidates for governor in the context of immigration right now.

When you look at that issue in the field, it underscores the ideological divides.

So far, for Steve Sweeney, he is the only one in the field that I'm aware of that has said that we should revoke New Jersey's status as a sanctuary state.

That basically limits federal, state, local law enforcement cooperation with federal immigration officials.

You've seen Congressman Josh Gottheimer and Mikey Cheryl take more of a neutral position.

Singing, let's keep the status quo for now.

You've seen other candidates further to the left of them who have expressed support for legislation like the immigrant trust act which would essentially codify New Jersey's sanctuary state status but also take it a step forward which has long been a goal of progressives and groups like the ACLU.

David: let's talk about the governor's race.

Mikey Cheryl one Huntington.

The convention there.

Has the name recognition evidently.

Is that enough to make her a tree front-runner?

>> last weekend, Mikey Cheryl wo n the endorsement of the Democrats.

It was a vote of about 170 rank-and-file Democrats.

People that really turn out in these local primary elections.

She does solidify her status as a front runner.

I think there's a large broader conversation these days as to how much these county conventions really matter anymore.

It used to be in years past that winning a county convention meant that you were placed prominently on a primary ballot because of New Jersey's County line ballot design which has gone by the wayside.

I think that there's a big debate as to how relevant these conversations are.

It is safe to say that right now Mikey Cheryl is the front runner in the Democratic field.

David: the Newark Mayor forced a second ballot there.

He is surprising some people.

Great debate performance.

Does the baraka canonicity -- candidacy seem to have legs or people thought it wouldn't?

>> yeah.

In some circles, Ross baraka's ascent comes off as a surprise.

Just as much as a seasoned political operator as everybody else on the stage.

He's essentially been mayor for life.

I mean, he has not announced that he is stepping down as Mayor of Newark, however the race pans out.

He's able to do a lot of things from a politically safe position so to speak.

David: the intensity appears to be picking up.

Matt Friedman had an interesting piece on Republican Bill Stadia and his use of this fundraising company that relies on auto renewable contributions.

They talked to a handful of seniors who said they didn't even know that they were giving money to him.

Renewing monthly.

It's not illegal but it's also not a good look.

>> The Politico headline had a partial quote.

So dirty and rotten.

It's really hard to not agree with that.

As you pointed out, these are people who thought they were giving to some sort of Republican Trump like caused.

Didn't realize it was money going to Bill Stadia in New Jersey.

Somebody they say they've never heard of.

The money -- this is from a Trump playbook.

We heard over and over again that people were, money was getting withdrawn every month.

People continue to give.

It's really not a good look.

David: you mentioned the candidates skipping the conventions.

John Brennan is the latest to say that he's not going to participate in those.

That's really, as you said, just another indication of the power of the party line dissolving.

Are we going to see none of these candidates participating, or the ones who think they will win will participate but the rest will not?

>> speaking on the Republican side.

I think the only major Republican candidate so far that has not committed to essentially boycotting the county conventions is Johnson trolley.

When you have a four-person field on the Republican side and three candidates saying we are not going to compete at these conventions, they don't even become accurate straw polls as to what the electorate is thinking right now.

In a close County line world, people are questioning the relevancy of these political organizations and they think, why not just go directly to the voters instead of competing in what is traditionally a very insiders game?

David: following up on that.

The contributions, did I hear right that checks were to rally his filing a complaint with the elections law enforcement commission about that?

>> yes.

>> so yeah.

The campaign has asked the election law enforcement commission to look at some of these contributions.

I think this really underscores more than anything how this could be a great liability.

Both in the primary and the general election.

This also speaks to the very personal dynamic, considered the front runners right now the Republican nomination.

These are two men who don't like each other.

They are going at it in a personal manner.

They were calling each other liars, career politicians, losers, and names of that sort.

David: I want to show this photo and post from you this week.

Clearly you were just goosing speculation about lieutenant governor candidates.

Obviously you are messing around here.

It also begs the question about tickets and balance.

Geographic, gender, race.

You mentioned, does this look like a good pairing, a good ticket there.

D.E.I.

is in retreat.

His balance still going to be a thing?

>> I think that will especially be among the Democrats.

That will be a consideration for lieutenant governor pick.

I think that it's funny seeing Congresswoman Mikey Cheryl and Steve Sweeney talking to one another.

I think the geographical, political divide between will be to wait -- too great to have either on a ticket.

The Democrats have traditionally not been the closest of friends, especially as of late.

But you know, we will have to see what happens.

I think it is still early for people to be picking lieutenant governor picks.

Stephen Philip initially said that he was going to have a lieutenant governor pick by the end of 2024.

February 25 and I don't see lieutenant governor.

David: that's a good point.

We will have to call them on that.

>> I just can't imagine Steve Sweeney taking a number two spot , knowing Steve Sweeney and his ambitions.

He was the Senate president so long.

It's fun to talk about.

David: I would agree with you on that.

I can't see anybody who was on that stage of the Democrats saying, I will be your number two.

Do you think voters are paying attention to this stuff?

>> when it comes to the lieutenant governor pick, a lot of voters don't necessarily know exactly what the lieutenant governor does.

They do understand what a ticket looks like.

They do understand the political ramifications and the PR behind it and things like that.

So this is going to be interesting because it's going to come at the intersection of a Democratic party that is dealing with an administration that has said that its anti-D.E.I.. Quite frankly anti-talking about a lot of things that pertain to people of color.

Depending on which candidates you get, I think you are going to see probably people like ras baraka or Mayor Philip B in some cases more pressured to project that balance.

When you have more of the moderate side from Cheryl and got Heimer, I would not be surprised if that does not turn out to be a priority.

David: yeah.

Interesting point.

I want a quick pivot before we finish up.

Colleen, you are our stats and maps maven.

Tell us about this affordable housing map and the story you did about it and what it says.

>> yeah.

This is the new law.

The old law has been dead for a while.

It's a new law that requires towns to say, this is how many affordable housing units we think we need to build over the next 10 years.

About 440.

A little more.

These resolutions to the state laying out their numbers.

They were working off of state Department of community affairs numbers.

Most agreed but a lot didn't get there were about 13,000 units difference in those towns that didn't agree Pigott Union Beach said they have no obligation.

They just can't do it.

They are still Republican -- recovering from Sandy.

They said they should only have to build a third of what the state said.

These things can all be challenged now.

There's going to be housing plans that are submitted to the state in the next -- by the end of June.

So this is ultimately going to supposedly build full -- affordable housing.

Something we have needed in New Jersey for decades.

We never seem to do a good job.

We will see what happens as this moves along.

But the promise at least from the state numbers was that 80,000 new units.

Towns are starting to chip away at that.

David: the idea was that this new plan for affordable housing was going to result in fewer court challenges but that's not going to be the case.

We are going to see court challenges going forward, no?

>> there's no question.

We've already had this group of mayors from throughout the state in court three or four times.

They've lost every time.

I'm sure there will be many more challenges to come.

David: more to come on that.

That's roundtable for this week.

Great to see you all.

Thanks for coming on with us.

Thanks for joining us.

You can follow this show at roundtable NJ and find out what the rest of the news team is up to by subscribing to the NJ spotlight news YouTube channel.

I'm David Cruise.

For all the crew here at Gateway Center in downtown Newark, we thank you very much for watching.

We will see you next week.

>> major funding for reporters roundtable is provided by our WJ Barnabas health.

Let's be healthy together.

Rowan University, educating New Jersey leaders partnering with New Jersey businesses, transforming New Jersey's future.

♪