(whimsical music) - [Sueann] Mental health, it isn't just a white person's problem.

So why don't you see more people of color in the mainstream talking about it?

Today on Traverse Talks, you'll hear from Dior Vargas.

She's an American Latinx feminist mental health activist, and she's working to break the stigma of mental illness for people of color.

Her personal story of dealing with mental illness is eye opening.

It started for her as a child who had no voice.

Well now, Dior Vargas is speaking up and making a difference for others.

Okay.

So Latinx, feminist, mental health activists, and usually people will just say, I'm just a mental health activist.

- [Dior] Right, right.

- [Sueann] Why are you, why do you use Latinx feminist?

- [Dior] Well, I definitely wanted to give people an idea of who I am and, you know, there are a lot of mental activists, but I think I wanted to really be upfront with who I am being, you know, that I am Latin X and that, you know, I view things through an intersectional feminist lens.

I just wanted people to automatically know what I'm about.

And specifically the certain topics that I tackle within my mental health advocacy.

- [Sueann] Hmm.

I think it's a good signal.

So people can come to you because your project made it very clear that mental health, isn't just a white person's problem.

And we don't see a lot of people of color dealing with in the mainstream mental health issues.

So you flagged, you know, yourself out there for your community.

Is it normal to be so vocal about mental health issues in the Latinx community?

- [Dior] It's not normal at all.

I think something that is very rare and I think that that, in the past has been hard for my family because I've been so vocal.

In the end, I'm just thinking about the impact it has on others.

Cause that's really the main reason why I do the work that I do.

- [Sueann] So you're going outside of your family's comfort zone to help the broader community?

- [Dior] Absolutely.

- [Sueann] Why?

- [Dior] I think just given what I had experienced in my lifetime so far, really just had an impact on me and how I really wanted people to feel less alone and feel like they had people they could look up to or connect with or see people have experiences that they could resonate with.

- [Sueann] Yeah.

W well, it's, it's a pretty vulnerable thing to do.

And then if it's not something your culture, let alone, your family is pretty brave.

So what brought you to that point to become an activist?

- [Dior] Growing up, I was very depressed.

I felt that I couldn't really speak up for myself or for the women in my family.

And I think that as a result, I've wanted to go against that, you know.

I think a lot of times women of color are silenced and they're unable to really be open about what they're going through.

And I'm trying to end that cycle of silence within my family, but also within the broader community.

- [Sueann] I'm so curious if you could go back in time to your young mind when you were with your mother, a single mother, trying to keep it together.

How many siblings do you have?

- [Dior] It's just me and my sister.

- [Sueann] Okay.

So two daughters, probably not the most money around.

Right.

So stress everywhere.

And I don't know what the situation was with your dads, but they, they separated.

So then what did, what went through your young brain now as a reflection from an adult that made you withdraw as a young child?

- [Dior] My parents separated when I was around six or seven and my biological father, he told my mom that since she was a woman, she was a second class citizen.

And so she was not allowed to work.

So her job was to stay at home, clean cook, and take care of my sister and I.

But when he left the house, without my mother's knowledge, he had stopped paying rent.

And so my mom didn't have a job to pay for that rent and we'd get eviction notices all the time.

And then we ended up on welfare and there was some point in time where we would have ice for dinner.

So I felt pretty crappy.

I felt very much like a burden to my mom.

So that's kind of where I was, where I was like, I can't even talk about being sad because she has to find a job.

She has to maybe go back to school, see if she can get a better career.

Like, she just had so much going on and being in her twenties, having two young girls and just being very lost.

I mean, she had been with my biological father since they were like teens.

So that was like, her main, true love.

- [Sueann] Of her life.

- [Dior] Yes.

And to see her life crumbling and these two young children, like really, depending on her, I just, I felt like I had to, whatever I was feeling, just keep it inside.

That was my way of like supporting my mother.

- [Sueann] Was your mom like an immigrant to the U S. - [Dior] No.

So my mom was born in the U S and her mom, my, my grandmother was born in the U S as well.

- [Sueann] So I find this interesting.

My mother is an immigrant and I see this in first-generation immigrant families a lot.

They're so busy getting life on.

You just got to keep your crap together.

No matter how old you are, your family though, was still experiencing that, even though you were two generations from it.

Why do you think that is?

- [Dior] I think that because the men in the family, like my biological father was an immigrant, my mom's father was an immigrant.

So it seemed like the women in the family were born here, but then it was the men.

And, you know, when it comes to those type of patriarchal systems, I think that that has an impact.

But I think it kind of goes back to women being silenced.

I just think overall, it was just this idea that while we, most of us were born here, there were still other parts of our family who had done so much to get here.

So it wasn't completely one or the other.

It was like an enmeshment of sorts.

- [Sueann] Ah, wow.

That broadens my perspective a lot.

It doesn't go away just because you are second or third generation American, there's still machismo patriarchy.

And if women aren't given a chance, how can they provide for their children?

- [Dior] Right.

(whimsical music) - [Sueann] You were eight years old, when you wrote in your diary, what did you write here, life is over?

- [Dior] Yeah.

My life is over.

It was 1995, I believe.

- [Sueann] Oh, Dior eight years old.

And then 11.

- [Dior] Yes, that was when I first attempted to end my life.

- [Sueann] You give the perspective for people of color.

What about children?

- [Dior] Huh, I guess in what way?

- [Sueann] Well, I don't think we acknowledged that very young children.

I mean, eight years old, it's pretty young to write that in a diary that they have mental health issues.

So what would you tell parents to help guide them with a child that they may not even want to acknowledge?

Maybe having some issues?

- [Dior] I think it's extremely important to really start those conversations early on.

I think for me, since it wasn't something that we even discussed, I felt like I had no right to even bring that up or I had no right to even feel what I was feeling.

And I didn't want to burden my family in any other way than what we were already going through.

And so I just felt like it was something that I needed to take care of myself or find different ways to cope, which, you know, unfortunately those were the very unhealthy ways to cope.

But I think a lot of times parents might be patronizing or may not be understanding what their kids are going through.

And I can think, oh, well, you know, it's not that big of a deal, but like really when you're at that age, that's the most important thing that's happened to you.

Like you don't have all these years to look back on.

And so everything carries so much weight.

And so why not validate what they're going through and carry that weight with them and make them feel like it's okay for them to think that this is such a big deal because they will learn from it at some point, but just sit there with them, like in, in more ways than one.

- [Sueann] So I have two kids and I try to validate their feelings, but ride that line of when do you tell them you, okay, it's time to move on.

And then when this is like a serious issue, are there signs that you would be able to speak to for parents or maybe a young adult who like, no, you really, you need some help.

- [Dior] I remember myself withdrawing from everything.

I mean, even in third grade, I remember I stopped doing my homework.

I just, you know, would get in trouble.

I was just very stubborn and I didn't really want to do anything.

I, I very much kept to myself.

And I think those, those are like huge warning signs.

I think originally I was very upbeat and rambunctious and outgoing.

And then I guess when, you know, my family broke apart, that's really when I started turning into myself and, and being very introspective and just feeling everything inside and not being open about what I was going through.

- [Sueann] What was the point where you, I don't want to say get over it, but what was that point where you decided to become an advocate?

- [Dior] So I had just finished my first year at college and I had returned back home and it was a very rough year cause I had never been away from my family before I went from New York city to a very small town.

It was just a complete culture shock.

And so when I was able to finally get back home, I felt like, okay, I'm where I am supposed to be, where I'm comfortable.

And I remember getting to an argument, my sister and I, and so I just felt like nowhere was a safe place for me in the sense that I could never really be truly happy anywhere.

And so that was the last time that I had attempted to end my life.

And prior to that, I had attempted several times.

I I've lost track of how many times I had tried, but nothing ever happened.

So I just, it was kind of like a coping mechanism, like, okay, let me do this.

Let me feel like I have some control over my life, get up the next morning.

I'm still here or keep it going.

But it was that last attempt where I actually started feeling effects from what I had done.

And so that's where it was very much an eye opener for me.

So I was taken to the hospital and I was put in a psychiatric ward.

So that was, you know, going from like waking up the next morning.

No problem.

Getting back to life, to being, you know, taken from one's home, going to a place where I had never been before, being in a place where I couldn't leave.

And in some way I felt like I was being punished for what I had done.

- [Sueann] It's not a pretty place.

- [Dior] No, not at all.

I mean, especially given like how the media portrays those spaces.

Even now, I still think there's a lot of work that needs to be done with how they portray on mental health facilities like that.

So that was a huge eye opener for me.

And I felt like it was something that I toyed around with and I didn't take seriously until that moment.

And so that's when I realized this isn't a game or like something you can just do, you know, at a whim,.

- [Sueann] It's not a coping skill.

- [Dior] Right.

So.

- [Sueann] And you we're early twenties?

- [Dior] Uh, 18.

- [Sueann] 18.

And then after that, was there a see change in your mind?

- [Dior] Yes.

I just felt like this was something that I couldn't do anymore.

It wasn't sustainable.

And I really had to come to terms with, you know, the impact and the consequences of my actions.

And so after that I went back to school and that's when I started seeing a therapist regularly and taking medication.

And it just was something that I was taking seriously.

I have a treatment plan of sorts.

And so it was just something that I wanted to put as a priority for myself.

And, you know, you think back on things that were really traumatic or really sad and negative, but then in hindsight then you think, oh, well this needed to happen for me to get to where I am now or, you know, to figure out what I needed to do to take better care of myself or change my circumstance.

- [Sueann] Being institutionalized, wasn't happening to you.

It was happening for you.

- [Dior] Yes.

- [Sueann] I'm so glad to hear that you have made such progress.

So you are giving a talk about self care.

And I feel as if it's turning into a bit of a buzzword, so I need you to, what is self-care?

- [Dior] Well, mainly for me it's therapy because it's a time where I can dedicate to myself to really think about some of the patterns I have or some of the things that I do.

I'm currently working with an amazing therapist and we're, we have a treatment plan.

Like it, I've never had a treatment plan so thorough with a therapist.

I feel like I'm actually gaining these tools.

And I have a time by which, you know, we want to kind of go back and see how I've been doing my certain symptoms and then specific interventions that we can take in order to kind of alleviate these symptoms.

And so I'm, I'm feeling really happy about that because you know, it's not easy, you're in therapy and you really have to come to terms with some of the things that you do and maybe things that you're not proud of.

Or maybe how I think, like I can always think about something negative over something positive.

And so really confronting myself, doing a lot of self reflection.

I think that's really hard work.

And for me, that self care, like, yeah, I can go get my nails done or get a massage, but it's like, what am I actually doing to improve myself, to make myself better and live a better quality of life.

So for me, it's kind of like tough love and self care.

You know, it's just something that you have to put a lot of work into.

I'm also thinking about in terms of collective care.

I think we're very much like an individualistic society - [Sueann] Oh yes we are!

- [Dior] You have to, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps or you have to.

- [Sueann] There's a lot of bullshit out there.

- [Dior] Yes, yes.

And you have to take care of yourself.

And I think that we really have to think about how it's really about the larger community.

I think that we have to view it as if you're taking care of yourself.

That means you can take care of others.

And so think about how it's impacting other people and how it's more than me.

I think that that's kind of where the ego goes away.

And you think about just, what am I going to do with this?

- [Sueann] Gosh, I'm so glad you bring up ego.

I just feel like it's a problem fixing anything, right?

- [Dior] Yeah, definitely.

- [Sueann] Such an internal thought process.

I mean, you have to do internal thought processes in order to self evaluate, but the ego sometimes won't let you learn.

It won't let you be humbled.

It won't let you feel pain.

And the pain seems to be where we learn the most.

- [Dior] Yes.

- [Sueann] Right.

Unfortunately, tough love.

Yeah.

My mom says, if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of your family.

- [Sueann] Yeah.

It's a bit of a luxury for some people I think.

- [Sueann] Right.

Because they're just so busy trying to bring food to the table.

But yeah.

What advice would you give to people who are listening, who may have someone in their life that they know is suffering from mental illness?

How can we help those in our lives.

- [Dior] Creating a space where they feel like they can reach out to you.

Just saying like, hey, whether you're going through something good or bad, just know that I'm here for you.

Giving them specific ways that they can reach out.

So sometimes, you know, you say, oh, just reach out.

You know, whenever you're going through this, but maybe saying like, oh, here's my cell number or here is how you can contact me or send me an email or whatever you feel comfortable doing.

So giving those like specifics, those tangibles.

- [Sueann] Yeah.

It feels more real.

- [Dior] Yeah.

Cause it seems like you've actually thought of it - [Sueann] Yeah.

Like I really do want you to call me.

Instead of just like the American way of saying, Hey, how's it going?

Let's get together sometime, and you never get together.

- [Dior] Right.

I know a lot of times it can be hard to reach out because you didn't feel like you may be a burden or you may be being too negative.

- [Sueann] I'm glad you brought that up because I feel maybe people would be thinking it's none of my business - [Dior] True.

- [Sueann] Or if they really need help the American way, if they really need help, they'll ask for it.

They can ask for it.

- [Dior] Yes, right.

Like, so let's say if you're planning to go out or something like that, and that person just doesn't wanna leave the house saying, okay, look, I can, I'm happy to go to your house or we can chat over the phone and do a video chat.

So showing that you're willing to be as understanding and as flexible as possible.

Also thinking about how a lot of times, like, let's say I'm venting to someone and they, maybe they rushed to say, well, you know, you could do this, you could do that.

- [Sueann] And they try to fix it.

- [Dior] Right and I think it's really important when someone is venting to you, just ask them like, do you want me to listen, or do you want advice?

- [Sueann] That's a great idea.

- [Dior] Because sometimes you just want to say everything you're feeling just to get it out and then you'll feel a lot better.

And then maybe there's a point during that conversation where you might want advice, but really try to figure out what that person needs from you at that moment.

- [Sueann] Great.

It took me a long time in my marriage to realize my husband wasn't my girlfriend.

And even when I said, I just need to vent, he just wants to fix it.

Yeah.

So then instead it's like, I'm going out with Kelsey (laughter) and that she just listens.

Doesn't need to fix it.

That's really great advice.

So be specific, reach out.

And then am I here to listen to you vent, which is fine.

Do you want input?

I mean, these people love you.

That's why they want to be with you.

(whimsical music) Okay.

Okay.

Let's just imagine deep into the future.

How do you, what, what kind of life do you envision for yourself?

- [Dior] I would really like to start my own organization.

I would really love to get my book into colleges and universities everywhere, maybe even high schools, because I think representation is so important.

And to be able to bring those into these institutions where, you know, they may not see people who look like them, or they might not think that other people are going through the same things.

And I'm hoping that my work already has kind of done what it needs to do to dispel those myths, but to be able to actually see that for me is really important.

My concentration in my MPH program was policy.

So I'd love to get more involved in policy.

I am a little impatient though.

So I think I need to figure out my expectations within that, but policy.

Yeah.

So policy, you know, doing maybe more work surrounding media representation when it comes to mental health, - [Sueann] Have you noticed more people of color on shows?

Specifically, I'm talking like Netflix and it makes me feel amazing.

- [Dior] Yeah.

Like one day at a time where the mother was.

- [Sueann] You must've like, oh my god, yes!

- [Dior] Yes.

Yeah.

Cause like I saw what she was in her bed and she couldn't get out of the bed.

I was like that, that was me.

Like, and there are days where it still is me at times, you know?

And I was just like, oh my God.

If I had seen that when I was younger, I wouldn't have felt like this was my fault or this was my problem.

I would have been like, oh, okay.

So I'm not weird.

There's nothing wrong with me.

Like this is something that happens to others.

- [Sueann] Yeah.

So normalizing normal behavior, but people of color.

Wow.

I remember my, I remember noticing two things.

High school, so that was like mid nineties, double mint, gum commercial, two Asian twins.

And I was like, oh, oh my God.

They look like, you know, half me, you know.

They look like my mom!

Double mint, commercial, mid nineties, thank you.

That one commercial, a great moment.

But now I find it amazing so much so that I I'm excited to learn new actors names.

It's like, yes, more of you please.

- [Dior] Yeah.

And it's just so sad how emotional we can get at things that are just so normal for others, you know.

- [Sueann] Isn't it?

- [Dior] I'm like in the, in the brink of tears and like other people just like, oh, you know, yeah.

Oh, they see themselves all the time and they.

- [Sueann] Yes, like my husband, he, it doesn't occur to him that there was any other way to look at it.

But it's like, no, really this Barbie doll is effing important because she has slanted eyes like mine, almond shaped, whatever and dark hair.

Yeah.

So Barbie was a big deal for me.

I love that they have different body shapes now for Barbie.

Thank you.

(laughter) Yeah.

It is kind of strange and reflection to think back as like a, a child of color playing with only blonde hair, blue eyes dolls.

- [Dior] Right.

- [Sueann] And, and that does do something to a child.

That, that's what's normal.

You are not.

So it was important for me to get some of those toys for my kids.

Cause it's, it's, it's not just a white person's world.

- [Dior] Yeah.

- [Sueann] Yeah.

So this is a related question to self care.

Now, as an activist specifically about mental health issues and as a feminist Latinex, right.

That's a lot of vulnerability in many different categories and you just saying I'm a feminist, isn't exactly like the most popular thing to do and saying in my Latin community for Hispanics, hello ladies, not many people out there doing that.

So you're very vulnerable, opened up your heart.

That's gotta be kind of exhausting.

What do you do after you do these speeches and these, you know, round table discussions?

- [Dior] Yeah.

It is definitely very, very exhausting.

I think a lot of times I'm talking about things that have been traumatic for me in my life and it is re-triggering myself sometimes.

And I definitely want to point out like you should never sacrifice your health for the sake of the cause.

So I think that there's like a fine line between that, but yes, it is very exhausting for me.

And I think that for me, I need space afterwards to really just decompress and just relax.

And I think that's when it's that type of self-care where it can be like taking a nap or, you know, watching a good TV show that makes you laugh.

You know, there are certain types of self-care techniques for certain times.

And so those are the times where I just want to be lazy and just breathe and just relax.

- [Sueann] I'm glad you allow yourself that not only all the cultural layers that we live with, right?

So our labels.

American, which we never take vacations, on top of that freaking hard working group of people you come from Ecuadorian, Puerto Rican with a smidge of Italian.

And then on top of that woman, lots of demands.

You need to keep working, but you are allowing yourself a freaking break.

That's awesome.

I think we need to do that more for one another and give each other permission to just, you've done your work, now you need to take some time and recover your brain muscle and your emotions.

Yeah, that's good.

(relaxed music) We're done.

It's four.

O'clock let's get this lady to the hotel.

(laughter) I got to stop talking to her.

(relaxed music) Dior face mental illness during her childhood, but you can have a happy and healthy childhood and still face mental illness.

I suffered postpartum depression, which at the time I didn't recognize.

I mean, I had nothing to complain about, right.

I was supposed to be a happy mom, but I was angry all the time and express that anger in ways that I'm ashamed of.

And it wasn't until a friend told me that anger is a sign or symptom of postpartum depression.

And for the first time in my forties, I had a panic attack.

I share this because you can suffer mental illness and it's okay.

There's help.

And it's important to know you're not alone.

If you don't feel like you can talk with a friend or mentor or your family and you don't have access to a primary care doctor or therapist, call the national suicide prevention lifeline 1 800, 2 7, 3 talk or chat live online with them.

Trained crisis workers are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

It's confidential and toll free.

And the center provides mental health referrals.

1 800 2 7 3, talk.

And thank you for listening to this episode with Dior Vargas on traverse talks, I'm Sue Ann Ramallah.

(relaxed music)