[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We are honored once again to be joined by George Helmy, Executive Vice President, Chief External Affairs and Policy Officer at RWJ Barnabas Health.

Also, previously the chief of ctaff to Governor Murphy, and formerly a United States Senator.

George, great to have you back with us.

- So great to be back with you, Steve.

Thanks for having me.

- You have a unique vantage point.

I actually mentioned this to you offline, that as we speak, a new governor, Mikie Sherrill, is taking over January 20th.

There's a transition.

You came in as chief of staff, but you're not the original chief of staff to Governor Murphy, what that, but you understand transitions.

Long-winded way of getting to this.

What the heck are the key things that need to be accomplished in a transition from a campaign to governing for a governor?

- Yeah, I mean, you move from, as you said it well, you move from campaigning to immediately thinking about how you're going to govern.

Running an operation in the state of New Jersey, that's 60,000 employees, and basically a $60 billion business with a number of key divisions and authorities.

And so you go as a chief of staff or an incoming chief of staff, or someone running the transition, you're immediately looking at what are the governor's priorities over what period of time?

How do you effectuate that?

That's your first bucket.

And the second is how do you build a fully functional office?

And the third, after you've figured out what the front office looks like, is your key cabinet appointments and the sub cabinet positions that help them execute their mission, which obviously is also the governor's mission.

- How many people are in your ear as new governor?

- Oh, it's, you know, infinite.

How many people that matter with any experience?

A very small number.

But how many people have something to say to you as somebody who talked to you on the campaign, or wants an issue to be on your first hundred days?

That number is probably something I don't know, in the thousands.

- So what fascinates me is Dale Caldwell, our good friend from the higher ed world, who's gonna be the lieutenant governor, but then there's the chief of staff.

Here's my question, and I don't know if there's a clean answer to this.

What the heck is the connection between the governor, the lieutenant governor, and the chief of staff?

- That's a great question.

I think it really, it's a great question, and it's a different answer in every administration I've seen.

And also you could take that example and say the connection between a president, vice president, and chief.

- I was just thinking the same, sorry to interrupt.

That's unique, this will be unique.

- That's right.

- I'm sorry.

Sorry for interrupting.

- No, it's well said, Steve.

It's the relationship between the two principles.

The way we did it with, God rest her soul, Sheila Oliver, and our current LG, Tahesha Way, you know, we were the core team.

You have the governor, obviously, it was tip of the spear.

And then you have the lieutenant governor, his or her chief of staff, the governor's chief of staff, and the governor's chief counsel.

And that's your core apparatus.

And the mission there is to advance the agenda of the governor.

How do you execute?

How do you separate what's important from what's not important?

And how do you execute on the mission of the governor.

- As chief of staff, and obviously, we're not asking you to divulge anything, 'Cause you're also, you work with Mark Manigan as part of the executive team at RWJ Barnabas Health.

Let me disclose a longtime underwriter of public media in the state as well as our production operation.

But how important is it for the chief of staff, whether in a corporate setting or in a government setting, if you believe it's different, please share, George.

To push back in certain situations against the chief executive when you believe he or she is not on the right track?

- It may be one of your most important A, qualifications for the job to have that spine, that backbone, that confidence and that you are.

Usually the first voice and the last voice in the room that that governor takes.

And being able to confidently, with precision, and with information behind it, give that governor the best counsel you can give them, even if it is contrary to what they wanna do.

But what I always tell you know, leaders who, you know, as you said, and we're very proud of supporting, you know, this show and other community efforts, whether it's me giving advice to our CEO, or when I was giving advice to the governor, once the governor says this is the direction we're going and he's heard all of the options out there, that's the way you're going, and your job then is to execute it.

But in that closed room, you're the most trusted confidant, and you're not there to be a yes man, or a yes woman.

- You got me thinking about a lot of things.

And I'm curious about this.

For you, George, where do you believe loyalty begins to no longer being loyal to the chief executive by executing a policy, versus fealty, meaning it's blind loyalty?

And you know what I'm talking about.

What's healthy loyalty?

- Yeah, it's a great question.

I think the way I would answer that, Steve, is the guidance I give to young people who always, you know, ask me how did you achieve, you know, what you were able to do in your time in government?

And I always start by saying, you know, work for people who you believe in.

Don't chase the title.

If you're chasing the title of chief of staff, there's such a small percentage that will get it.

And you'll probably be unhappy.

If you're just chasing the title, and you'll do whatever to get that title, you will then devolve into fealty, but if you work for people you believe in, and you're willing as your prior question to have the confidence in your value, and what you're willing to bring to the table, and being that true confidant, you'll end up doing the job the right way, and you will be remembered for it.

And what I always say is, being in the room requires you to know when you need to exit the room.

- Give us more, please.

- Well, when you see things like that, you know, when loyalty is the number one requirement when I served as a senior staffer for Senator Booker, or a senior staffer for Governor Murphy or now in my current role, sure, you have to be loyal to mission and to the CEO, but that doesn't mean that you compromise your own values.

And it definitely doesn't mean you compromise anything against an ethical or legal code.

And the second, your principle is taking you down the road, I assure you, you are working for the wrong person.

- Wow, people can take that and extrapolate and think that through about the leaders who you're around and ask yourself the question, "Should you leave the room?"

And I appreciate what George is saying 'cause if you don't trust and believe in that leader at the core, that doesn't mean you don't disagree.

But this is an issue of integrity and character, not a bunch of other things.

Before I let you go, and thank you for joining us, and again, acknowledging RWJ Barnabas Health's involvement in public media in the state.

Self-serving question.

We're in a state where we don't know where public media is gonna be.

And I've talked to you about this offline as well.

Why do you believe it is so important that an independent public media entity exists in the state of New Jersey?

Please.

- I've answered this to you, I think in the most unique way.

You know, when I came to RWJ Barnabas Health of the options I had leaving government, it was because of our investment in community programs.

And I think it's strange for people to hear of public media and programs like this compared to our programs in food insecurity, or homelessness, or food pantries, 340B pharmacies, but the reality is, public media and independent journalism is so vital to the fabric of our communities and information sharing, that we do see it as an investment in making healthier and more vibrant communities.

And so that's how I feel so strongly about the work that you and your team do, to the other public programs that we participate, and our community health footprint.

It is who we are in the communities we serve.

- And final point, go on our website before we leave.

We're doing a series on trust in public health, and the reason for the need of trust in public health, and a vaccine, what you need to know about vaccines initiative in cooperation with the State Department of Health.

To George Helmy, the Executive Vice President, Chief External Affairs and Policy Officer at RWJ Barnabas Health.

George, thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Thank you, Steve, and thanks to your team again.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, we'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

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