>>JON: INDIANAPOLIS IS STRUGGLING WITH VIOLENT CRIME.

LAST YEAR, IT LOGGED A RECORD-BREAKING 271 HOMICIDES — UP FROM 245 IN 2020, WHICH PREVIOUSLY HELD THE DUBIOUS DISTINCTION OF BEING THE CITY'S DEADLIEST YEAR.

BACKED BY 150-MILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL FUNDS, DEMOCRATIC MAYOR JOE HOGSETT AND THE CITY-COUNTY COUNCIL HAVE LAUNCHED A THREE-YEAR CAMPAIGN TO COMBAT THE PROBLEM, PRIMARILY THROUGH THE HIRING OF ADDITIONAL POLICE OFFICERS, THE ACQUISITION OF HIGH-TECH LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS, AND THE DEPLOYMENT OF SO-CALLED “PEACEMAKERS” TO DEAL WITH THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC ISSUES THAT BREED CRIME.

SOME REPUBLICANS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HOWEVER, MAINTAIN THAT MUCH MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE, AND THEY'RE PUSHING LEGISLATION THAT THEY SAY WILL KEEP OFFENDERS OFF THE STREETS.

HI, I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND ON THIS WEEK'S SHOW, WE'LL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT LAW AND ORDER ACROSS THE HOOSIER STATE.

INDIANA LAWMAKERS — FROM THE STATEHOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

♪♪ AS I MENTIONED AT THE TOP OF THE AS I MENTIONED AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW, INDIANAPOLIS HAS BROKEN ITS HOMICIDE RECORD IN EACH OF THE PAST TWO YEARS.

THE SPIKE IN VIOLENT CRIME HAS LEFT THE PUBLIC, POLICE, AND POLICYMAKERS ASKING TWO FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS: HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT, AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS THE CHALLENGE ARE SENATOR JACK SANDLIN, AN INDIANAPOLIS REPUBLICAN WHO SPENT 35 YEARS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, RISING TO THE RANK OF DEPUTY CHIEF OF THE INDIANAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER GREG TAYLOR OF INDIANAPOLIS, A MEMBER OF THE LAW, CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE OF THE NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF STATE LEGISLATURES WILLIAM OWENSBY, A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER WHO HAS SERVED AS PRESIDENT OF THE INDIANA FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE SINCE 2007 AND BERNICE CORLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE INDIANA PUBLIC DEFENDER COUNCIL, A JUDICIAL AGENCY THAT SUPPORTS THE WORK OF SOME 1,400 PUBLIC DEFENDERS AND COURT-APPOINTED ATTORNEYS ACROSS THE STATE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TO TALK ABOUT THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.

LET'S START WITH YOU, JACK SAN SANDLIN, WHY ARE WE REELING FROM HOMICIDES?

>> I THINK THERE ARE A VARIETY OF REASONS WHY WE'RE HERE.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COOPED UP FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, BECAUSE OF COVID, IT'S CREATED ISSUES WITH INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS.

ALTHOUGH I GO BACK TO WHEN I WAS ON THE INDIANAPOLIS CITY COUNTY COUNCIL MORE THAN SIX YEARS AGO WHERE WE WERE HOLDING MEETINGS TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE IN THE COMMUNITY AND BEING ON THE RISE.

I THINK THAT WE'VE ACTUALLY SET A RECORD IN INDIANAPOLIS FOR SEVEN CONSECUTIVE YEARS ON VIOLENT CRIME IN INDIANAPOLIS.

AND IT TAKES A VARIETY OF PEOPLE, AS BILL OWENSBY WILL TELL YOU THE POLICE HAVE TO BE ENGAGED, WE NEED A LOT OF COMMUNITY PARTNERS, WE NEED TO WORK WITH SCHOOLS, OUR MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS.

IT'S A HOLISTIC APPROACH.

IT IS NOT A POLICE STATION.

>> CERTAINLY IN YOUR MIND THE PANDEMIC MAY HAVE EXACERBATED THE PROBLEM.

GREG TAYLOR, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT THEORY?

>> THAT'S PART OF IT, I AGREE WITH SENATOR SANDLIN THAT WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM ACROSS THE BOARD WITH A LOT OF THINGS.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK JUMPS OUT CLEARLY IS THAT WE HAVE NOT ATTAINED OUR GOAL OF EDUCATING CHILDREN.

I REMEMBER 2011 AND 12 WHEN WE DECIDED WE WERE GOING TO TAKE $300 MILLION FROM PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS AND PUT IT TOWARDS OTHER THINGS IN THE STATE OF INDIANA.

AND I REMEMBER MY COLLEAGUE SENATOR SAYING TO THE LEGISLATORS LOCK YOUR WINDOWS AND DOORS BECAUSE THESE CHILDREN DON'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN, THEY'RE GOING TO BE OUT ON THE STREET CAUSING CRIME.

THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT RIGHT NOW.

I AGREE WITH JACK.

WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM AS WELL.

>> BILL OWENSBY, LET'S KEEP IT GOING.

WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT?

>> IT'S GOING TO BE POSSIBLE TO POINT TO ONE OR TWO OR THREE CAUSATIONS, IT IS A MYRIAD OF ISSUES THAT COME TOGETHER.

THIS IS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE LIVE IN INDIANAPOLIS.

AND INDIANA.

SO YOU KNOW, WHEN WE HAVE ONE HOMICIDE, IT AFFECTS THAT FAMILY 100%.

SO WE'VE GOT TO -- THERE IS A MYRIAD OF ISSUES, AS I SAID, OUR OFFICERS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO BE MORE PROACTIVE, AND AGAIN, THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER SET OF PROBLEMS WITH RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION.

THE OVERALL FEELING OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, THE WAY LAW ENFORCEMENT FEELS TODAY.

THERE HAS TO BE SOME PACKAGE DEAL THAT WE CAN COME UP WITH THAT CAN REDUCE THIS.

WHAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THESE -- THIS PARTICULAR LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS THAT LEGISLATORS COME TOGETHER TO DO SOMETHING.

AND I HAVE SAT THROUGH THE HEARINGS WITH BOTH SENATORS TAYLOR AND SANDLIN, AND HAVE LISTENED TO SOME VERY, VERY GOOD DEBATE.

AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT LEAST DOING SOMETHING IN THE T - STATE OF INDIANA TO TRY TO REDUCE THIS.

>> EVEN IF YOU LOOK STATE-WIDE IN INDIANA, THE HOMICIDE RATE IS UP NOT ONLY YEAR-OVER-YEAR BUT ALSO IN COMPARISON WITH THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

SO IT DOES SEEM TO BE A STATE-WIDE PROBLEM.

AND AS FAR AS URBAN CENTERS, LAST YEAR WAS A RECORD NOT ONLY FOR INDIANAPOLIS, BUT COLUMBUS, TOLEDO, CHICAGO, PHILADELPHIA.

IT SEEMS TO BE A BROAD PROBLEM.

BERNICE, DO YOU STIPULATE THIS IS A BROAD PROBLEM, IF SO WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

>> I BUILD ON WHAT SENATOR SANDLIN AND TAYLOR SAID, I AGREE WTH BOTH.

I THINK THE PANDEMIC REALLY HAS HEIGHTENED THE STRESS THAT PEOPLE WERE ALREADY LIVING UNDER FOR A WHOLE HOST OF REASONS.

WHETHER IT BE MENTAL HEALTH, WHETHER IT BE FINANCIAL FAMILY ISSUES, ET CETERA.

AND THAT STRESS REALLY HAS CAUSED PEOPLE TO BOIL OVER.

NOT ONLY HOMICIDE RATES UP, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, SO IS DRUG USE.

AND I THINK IT'S THOSE THINGS ARE EMBLEMATIC THAT THE STRESS OF THE PANDEMIC AND OUR LACK OF SOCIAL SAFEGUARDS TO HELP PEOPLE REALLY IS -- JUST MADE THIS PROBLEM EVEN WORSE.

I DO TAKE ISSUE A LITTLE BIT WITH WHAT MR. OWENSBY SAID.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT COMING BACK TO SENATOR SANDLIN SAID THAT THE SOLUTION BE MANIFOLD.

WE CANNOT PUT ALL OF THIS ON THE SHOULDERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND EXPECT THEM TO FIX.

IT'S NOT RIGHT.

BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS ARE NOT THAT SIMPLE TO FIX.

WE DO NEED MORE INVESTMENT IN MENTAL HEALTH.

WE DO NEED TO BRING ALONGSIDE LAW ENFORCEMENT OTHER SERVICE PROFESSIONALS THAT MAYBE CAN EVEN HELP PEOPLE AND FAMILIES BEFORE IT ARISES TO THE LEVEL OF NEEDING LAW ENFORCEMENT ENGAGEMENT.

>> WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT INDIANAPOLIS AS A WHOLE HAS DONE AND THE HOGSETT ADMINISTRATION AND THE CITY COUNTY COUNCIL HAVE THIS THREE-YEAR PLAN WHERE THEY LOOK AT ADDRESSING CRIME ON A LOT OF LEVELS.

CERTAINLY THERE IS A LAW ENFORCEMENT COMPONENT BUT ALSO AN EFFORT TO GET IN THE COMMUNITY AT A GRASSROOTS LEVEL AND MAYBE DEAL WITH SOME OF THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC PROBLEMS THAT LEND THEMSELVES TO INCREASES IN CRIME AND SO FORTH.

JACK SANDLIN, BILL OWENSBY MENTIONED THERE OUGHT TO BE A PACKAGE OF LEGISLATION TO DEAL WITH THIS.

IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT YOU HAVE A PACKAGE OF LEGISLATION, YOU AND YOUR REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES FROM MARIAN COUNTY BASICALLY A FIVE-BILL PACKAGE.

YOU'RE EITHER THE AUTHOR OR CO-AUTHOR.

THERE ARE TWO BILLS THAT DEAL WITH BAIL.

BASICALLY TO PUT IT VERY SHORT FASHION, IT WOULD BE KEEPING MORE PEOPLE BEHIND BARS RATHER THAN OUT ON THE STREET.

BECAUSE OF BAIL OPPORTUNITIES.

TALK ABOUT THOSE BILLS FIRST, AND WE'LL TOUCH ON ALL OF THEM.

WHY DON'T WE START THERE.

>> SENATE BILL 6, WHICH WAS AUTHORED BY SENATOR MIKE YOUNG, WHO IS THE MARIAN COUNTY LEGISLATOR, REALLY HAVE IMPLICATIONS ON A STATE-WIDE BASIS.

AND IT IS GEARED TOWARD BAIL FOR VIOLENT OFFENDERS.

AND I KNOW THAT BERNICE WAS AT THE HEARING, AND TESTIFIED ABOUT THIS, AND I KNOW THAT THERE IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT OPINION ON THIS.

BUT THIS WILL REALLY KEEP THOSE THAT ARE CHARGED WITH MOST SERIOUS OFFENSES AT A HIGHER BAIL TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A HIGHER DEGREE OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

THE OTHER BILL, WHICH IS SENATE BILL 8, WHICH IS SENATOR FREEMAN'S BILL, DEALS WITH THE SHAREABLE BAIL.

WE'VE SEEN BONDS THAT HAVE BEEN REDUCED, PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN CHARGED ON VIOLENT CRIMES, THOSE BONDS HAVE BEEN REDUCED, AND THEN THE BAIL PROJECT HAS POSTED BAIL, AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY THERE HAVE BEEN OFFENSES COMMITTED BY THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN LET OUT ON BAIL.

ONE THAT WAS IN THE MEDIA RECENTLY, DANTE WILLIAMS, WHO STABBED TWO INDIANAPOLIS POLICE OFFICERS AFTER HE MADE A FAKE CRIME REPORT CALL, WHICH IS WHAT'S ALLEGED, AND WHEN THE OFFICER SHOWED UP, AND STARTED WALKING AWAY.

HE JUMPED ON THEM AND STABBED THEM.

AND I THINK THAT SENATOR FREEMAN'S BILL PUTS SOME CONTROLS ON THAT.

IT REQUIRES A SHAREABLE BAIL LEGISLATION TO OPERATE UNDER THE REDUCE OF THE STATE INSURANCE COMMISSIONER, WHICH IS WHERE BAIL BONDSMEN ARE ACTUALLY LICENSED.

THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE RESTRICTION, OR REQUIREMENTS FOR VIOLENT FELONS.

BUT I STILL THINK THEY'LL BE ABLE TO POST A LOWER BAIL FOR MISDEMEANANTS, PEOPLE WHO WE REALLY SOMETIMES DON'T WANT TO HOLD IN JAIL FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME.

>> IF SOMEBODY IS ACCUSED OR CHARGED WITH A VIOLENT CRIME, THEN AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THE BAIL PROJECT, A NON-PROFIT, ONE OF A NUMBER DESIGNED TO HELP THOSE WHO OTHERWISE WOULD NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES, OR ABILITY TO BOND OUT TO GIVE THEM THAT, AND THAT WOULD HAVE COURSE IF -- IT WOULD BE A FELONY CHARGE, CHARITIES WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT, THEY WOULD BE LIMITED TO A DEGREE WITH MISDEMEANORS, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

IN TERMS OF AMOUNTS THAT THEY COULD DO, AND ALSO COULD NOT USE DOLLARS ALLOCATED VIA STATE OR ANY KIND OF GOVERNMENT GRANT.

GREG TAYLOR, SO THOSE ARE THE TWO BAIL BILLS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, AND THE FIRST ONE, AGAIN, FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN FOLLOWING THIS CLOSELY, WOULD NOT ONLY RAISE BAIL BUT REQUIRE PEOPLE TO, AGAIN, IF THEY'RE VIOLENT DEFENDANTS OF -- ACCUSED OF A VIOLENT CRIME, THEY OR A CLOSE RELATIVE TO WOULD HAVE TO PAY INSTEAD OF RELYING ON A THIRD-PARTY, OPEN BAIL HEARINGS, PRESUMABLY WITH VICTIMS PRESENT.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

>> WELL, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CONCEPT, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE BILLS, I WISH WE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO GO INTO IT.

LET ME JUST JUMP INTO A FEW THINGS RIGHT OFF THE TOP.

SENATOR SANDLIN LEFT OUT FOR PROFIT BILLINGS, WHICH REPRESENT AS FAR AS PEOPLE SITTING BEHIND BARS TODAY, CHARGED WITH MURDER, REPRESENTS OVER 67% OF THE HOMICIDES IN INDIANAPOLIS.

SO I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE THEM ALONE.

AND THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT ON BAIL FOR MISDEMEANORS.

WE CAN KEEP CHERRY PICKING THESE CASES.

WE HAVE A HOMICIDE PROBLEM ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND THE SOLUTION HERE IN INDIANA IS TO CHERRY PICK CASES WHERE PEOPLE NOT ONLY GET OUT BY CHARITABLE BAIL ORGANIZATIONS, BUT A COUPLE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WERE ACTUALLY ASSISTED BY FOR PROFIT BAILINGS, AND WE NEVER ADDRESSED THAT IN THE LEGISLATION.

IF WE WANT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THESE THINGS, SENATE BILL 10, WHICH IS A BILL THAT I ACTUALLY VOTED FOR, HAS TO DO WITH PROVIDING HALF A MILLION DOLLARS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES IN HOT SPOTS IN MARIAN COUNTY.

AND ONE -- WHAT I STRUGGLE WITH IS PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIVE IN THOSE COMMUNITIES TRYING TO TELL THESE COMMUNITIES WHAT THEY NEED.

A PERFECT EXAMPLE WAS I SAID CHANGE THE NAME FROM VIOLENT CRIME REDUCTION AREAS TO SOME OTHER NAME.

SO THAT YOU CAN GET PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS, GET THE COMMUNITY INVOLVED, AND MY COLLEAGUES SENATOR SANDLIN, INCLUDED, VOTED NO ON JUST CHANGING THE NAME OF THE PROGRAM.

BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY HAVE THY DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS GOING FORWARD.

>> WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THOSE BILLS.

AS I PROMISED.

STICKING WITH THE BAIL BILLS, FOR JUST ONE MOMENT.

BILL OWENSBY.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID THIS CAME UP IN TESTIMONY IN COMMITTEE.

OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SUGGESTED THAT THIS REINFORCES THE NOTION THAT WE HAVE A TWO-TRACK LEGAL SYSTEM.

THAT FOR THE WEALTHY AND THAT FOR THE POOR.

AND BASICALLY IT KEEPS POOR FOLKS BEHIND BARS.

AND LETS WEALTHY PEOPLE OUT.

IS THAT AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION, WHY IS IT NOT THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK IT IS A MISREPRESENTATION, NOT AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION.

I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CRIME AND HOW TO REDUCE CRIME, HOW TO REDUCE HOMICIDES, I DON'T THINK THE ECONOMIC STATUS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WHAT BERNICE WAS TALKING ABOUT ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH, I DO COMPLETELY AGREE WITH HER THAT WE NEED TO DO MORE IN THAT AREA.

BUT WHAT THESE BILLS TARGET, ESPECIALLY SB6, YOUNG'S BILL.

KEEP IN MIND, IT JUST ADDRESSES VIO VIOLENT ARRESTEES, IT DEALS WITH VIOLENT ARRESTED PERSONS.

THAT'S WHO YOU WANT TO KEEP OFF THE STREET.

AND THAT'S PREDOMINANTLY WHO IS COMMITTING THE HOMICIDES.

SO IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER THE ECONOMIC STATUS.

IF THE PERSON IS -- HAS THAT PENCHANT FOR VIOLENT CRIME.

AND THAT'S WHO WE WANT TO -- WE CERTAINLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE A FAIR TRIAL AND A FAIR PROCESS.

BUT WE DON'T WANT TO LET THEM OUT TO COMMIT MORE VIOLENT CRIMES, WHICH CALL IT CHERRY PICKING OR WHATEVER YOU WANT.

BUT WHEN THAT OCCURS, IT'S A SLAP IN THE FACE TO THAT SECOND CRIME VICTIM.

AND AGAIN, WHAT I SAID WAS IF YOU HAVE A HOMICIDE VICTIM, THAT PAFFECTS THAT FAMILY 100%.

AND WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO WHAT WE CAN DO, AND THE LEGISLATORS HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DO WHAT THEY CAN DO TO KEEP THOSE VIOLENT PEOPLE INCARCERATED UNTIL THEY GO TO TRIAL.

>> DURING THIS PROCESS RAISED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE BAIL PROVISION.

IS THAT THE PRIMARY CONCERN, OR IS IT MORE JUST THIS NOTION OF THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS PERHAPS GET TREATED DIFFERENTLY?

>> IT IS A COMBO.

WITH RESPECT TO SENATOR YOUNG'S BILL, THAT BILL HAS SEVERAL UNCONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS.

WE WOULD ALSO SAY OPERATION OF POWER ISSUES, IT LITERALLY IS A GENERAL ASSEMBLY TELLING JUDGES, AND THE JUDICIAL BRANCH WHAT THE FRAMEWORK FOR BAIL CAN BE.

WE THINK THAT'S PROBLEMATIC CONSTITUTIONALLY.

IT ALSO ROBS A PERSON OF THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WHO HAVE REASONABLE BAIL.

IN INDIANA WE HAVE A RIGHT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

AND IN THAT BILL IN BASICALLY SAYS, HERE'S THE FORMULA.

IF THIS IS THE CHARGE, THEN AN INDIVIDUAL MUST HAVE THIS FORMULA OF A BAIL.

THAT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL BOTH UNDER INDIANA'S CONSTITUTION AND OUR U.S. CONSTITUTION.

>> JACK SANDLIN, HOW ABOUT THAT?

YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR OWN COLLEAGUES SENATOR SUE GLICK FROM LAGRANGE, FORMER PROSECUTOR RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT ENCROACHING ON THE PURVIEW OF JUDGES.

IS THAT A LEGITIMATE ISSUE?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE'LL DISCUSS IT AS IT GOES OVER TO THE HOUSE, AND LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE PROVISIONS.

BUT UNDER THE INDIANA CONSTITUTION IS DIFFERENT THAN THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU'RE ENTITLED TO BAIL, YOU KNOW, UNDER THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION, YOU CAN ASK FOR A BAIL HEARING, AND JUDGES OFTEN GRANT THOSE AND OFTEN SET BAIL.

IN INDIANA THERE IS A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO OFFER BAIL.

I THINK SENATOR YOUNG'S BILL PUTS BAIL SCHEDULE IN FOR THOSE TOP 20 VIOLENT OFFENDERS.

I BELIEVE HE WORKED WITH SENATOR TAYLOR TO TAKE OUT FOR EXAMPLE RESISTING LAW ENFORCEMENT AS A VIOLENT FELONY.

AND I THINK THE EXAMPLE THAT WAS USED IF YOU OVERTIGHTEN THE HANDCUFFS ON AN INDIVIDUAL AND THEY PULL AWAY, YOU MIGHT SEE A PERSON CHARGED WITH RESISTING ARREST ON A SITUATION LIKE THAT.

AND SENATOR YOUNG WAS CAREFUL NOT TO INCLUDE THAT OFFENSE.

BUT I THINK THE VIOLENT FELONIES WE'LL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT, AND DOES THE LEGISLATURE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SET A BAIL SCHEDULE, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, AND THERE IS AN ARGUMENT THAT THEY DO.

>> WELL, GREG TAYLOR, YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, THE LEGISLATION THAT WOULD CREATE THE MARIAN COUNTY CRIME REDUCTION PANEL.

AND IT WOULD BE ABLE TO DISPENSE GRANTS.

I THINK A HALF MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO TARGET HOT SPOTS FOR ADDITIONAL POLICING, AND SO FORTH.

OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT YOU DON'T LIKE THE NAME OF THE -- THIS PANEL, WHAT'S -- WHAT DO YOU LIKE AND DON'T YOU LIKE ABOUT THE IDEA OF HAVING THIS GROUP TO INCREASE INTERAGENCY COOPERATION AND TARGETING THOSE HOT SPOTS?

>> WELL, I ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT TWO SEPARATE BILLS, SENATE BILL 10 HAS TO DO WITH THE -- WHAT THEY CALL CRIME REDUCTION -- VIOLENT CRIME REDUCTION -- BELIEVE THE SENATE BILL 9, THE INTERCOOPERATIVE AGREEMENT ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, WHICH IS MERELY TO CHANGE THE JURISDICTION.

>> THAT'S 10, I THINK.

THAT MIGHT BE SENATE BILL 10.

BUT THEY ALL RUN TOGETHER.

>> NUMBERS ASIDE -- >> I AGREE.

>> THE REALITY IS, IT WASN'T JUST A NAME.

AND I -- LIKE I SAID, I SUPPORTED THE LEGISLATION, IT WAS, IF YOU WANT THIS PROGRAM TO WORK, YOU GOT TO GET PEOPLE TO BE INVOLVED.

AND MY POINT WAS, WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT VIOLENT CRIME REDUCTION AREAS, OR VIOLENT CRIME, AND YOU START TARGETING THESE AREAS, YOU'RE GOING TO GET PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE -- THEY'RE GOING TO BE A LITTLE RESISTANT TO ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE.

I WAS TRYING TO GET SOME KNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY THAT I REPRESENT TO FIND A WAY TO GET THAT IN THE PART OF THE LEGISLATION.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, THE MEMBERS OF THE SENATE SAID NO.

>> WELL -- >> INCLUDING JACK SANDLIN.

>> BILL OWENSBY, ONE OF THE BILLS DEALS WITH THIS BOARD AND THE FUNDING WOULD INCREASE.

AGAIN, THIS NOTION OF COOPERATION AMONG AGENCIES, ALL TYPES OF INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED.

DEFINED AS DOWNTOWN.

IS THAT -- IS THAT THE ANSWER, FOCUSING BASICALLY ON THAT CORE OF OUR CITY, RIGHT AROUND MONUMENT CIRCLE BASICALLY?

>> YEAH.

THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT AVAILABILITY, THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT INTEROPERABILITY AND THE ABILITY TO WORK TOGETHER.

WHAT THIS BILL DOES IS ENABLES THEM TO COORDINATE BETTER AMONG THE AGENCIES.

THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD THE SAME JURISDICTION, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ANY JURISDICTIONAL ISSUES, BUT THIS BILL IS GOING TO ENABLE THEM TO COORDINATE INFORMATION AND COORDINATE OPERATIONS BETTER.

AND IT'S ACTUALLY SENATOR SANDLIN'S BILL, I HOPE I'M NOT STEPPING ON YOUR TOES, OR MISSPEAKING, BUT IT IS GOING TO HELP THE DOWNTOWN AREA BETTER COORDINATE ALL OF THE AGENCIES, AND THERE IS A LOT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

>> THIS PANEL WOULD REFLECT, HOSPITAL SECURITY, AIRPORT POLICE, YOU KNOW, EVENT -- PACER, SCHOOL POLICE.

BERNICE CORELY.

>> I WANT TO START BY SAYING I APPRECIATE -- SENATOR MADE GOOD CHANGES TO THE BILL.

STILL THE PUBLIC DEFENDER COUNCIL CONCERNED WITH THE OVERALL POINT OF VIEW OF THIS BILL.

IT JUST INCREASES POLICE PRESENCE, AND THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT.

IN THE 60s, THAT WAS TRIED.

AND SOME AREAS OF OUR COUNTRY HAD CITIES THAT LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE BEING OCCUPIED.

WE DON'T THINK THAT HAVING POLICE EN MASSED IN ONE AREA NECESSARILY MAKES PEOPLE SAFER OR REDUCES CRIME.

SO WE'RE STILL CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

>> LET'S -- WE MENTIONED FIVE BILLS, LET'S GET THE 5th.

ELECTRONIC MONITORING, WOULD BASICALLY BE A CONDITION OF ANY KIND OF PAROLE, PROBATION, ANY NUMBER OF THINGS, ENHANCED PENALTIES FOR TRYING TO REMOVE IT OR TAMPER IT, VICTIMS WOULD BE NOTIFIED IF SOMEONE WEARING ELECTRONIC MONITORING LEAVES HIS OR HER DESIGNATED AREA.

JACK SANDLIN, WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF DOING THIS?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT SENATOR KYLE WALKER OFFERED THAT BILL, AND I THINK HE DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF BRINGING ALL OF THE CONSTITUENCIES TOGETHER.

THIS WILL ALLOW FOR THE INCREASED MONITORING OF PEOPLE THAT ARE INVOLVED OR OUT ON MONITORING AS A RESULT OF VIOLENT OFFENSES.

WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE OUT ON ELECTRONIC MONITORS THAT HAVE CREATED SOME -- OR HAVE COMMITTED OR ALLEGEDLY COMMITTED SOME VIOLENT CRIMES AND HAVE BEEN REARRESTED.

AND THIS STEPS UP THE GAME ON THE MONITORING AGENCIES, REDUCES THE SPAN OF CONTROL FOR MONITORING VIOLENT OFFENDERS, AND ALSO ALLOWS FOR AN INCREASED NOTIFICATION IF THERE IS A VICTIM OUT THERE SO THAT THEY HAVE A TIMELY NOTICE THAT A PERSON HAS GONE OFF THE MONITOR OR MAY BE IN THE AREA.

I THINK IT IS A GOOD BILL, I THINK HE WORKED REALLY HARD AT IT.

>> GREG TAYLOR, THIS BILL SEEMS TO HAVE MORE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT THAN SOME OF THE OTHERS WE'VE MENTIONED.

IS THAT REALLY THE CASE, IF SO, WHY?

>> I THINK IT IS.

I THINK THERE WERE SOME COMMON SENSE PARTS OF THE BILL ABOUT INCREASING THE TRANSPARENCY ASSOCIATED WITH PEOPLE BEING ON ELECTRONIC MONITORING.

I THINK IT DOES HAVE GOODS PARTS.

I COULDN'T SUPPORT IT BECAUSE THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT PART OF IT THAT HAD TO DO WITH PROVIDING THE MONITORING HAD TO BE -- TO ME IT WAS AN UNFUNDED MANDATE THAT I DON'T WANT TO PUT ON THE COUNTY WHEN WE STILL ARE STRUGGLING TO PUT THE RIGHT RESOURCES INTO THE COMMUNITY THAT WE NEED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE COULD GO ON.

I HAVE MANY MORE QUESTIONS, I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE MANY MORE ANSWERS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AN IMPORTANT TOPIC, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT.

I APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHTS, ALL FOUR OF YOU TO COME TALK TO US ON THIS PROGRAM.

AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN SENATOR JACK SANDLIN, AN INDIANAPOLIS REPUBLICAN SENATOR GREG TAYLOR, AN INDIANAPOLIS DEMOCRAT WILLIAM OWENSBY, PRESIDENT OF THE INDIANA FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE AND BERNICE CORLEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE INDIANA PUBLIC DEFENDER COUNCIL.

TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONVERSATION WITH ED FEIGENBAUM, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER INDIANA LEGISLATIVE INSIGHT, PART OF HANNAH NEWS SERVICE.

ED, WHAT DID WE NOT COVER IN THE ROUNDTABLE RELATED TO CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WE DID COVER.

THAT YOU DID COVER, THAT WAS THE ISSUE OF BAIL.

AND IT'S INTERESTING THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN IT IS A HUGE ISSUE THIS YEAR BECAUSE THERE IS SOME BAIL BILLS LAST YEAR THAT DIDN'T EVEN GET A HEARING.

WE'VE GOT TWO BILLS, THE SENATE BILL THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER IN THE ROUNDTABLE, AND THEN THERE IS HOUSE BILL 1300, PEGGY MAYFIELD FROM MARTINSVILLE BILL, YOU'LL SEE A COMBINATION OF THE TWO IN CONFERENCE.

WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THERE IS HAS BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT THE BILL DOES OR DOESN'T DO TO OTHER CHARITABLE KINDS OF BAIL ORGANIZATIONS.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE BAIL PROJECTS SPECIFICALLY.

BUT THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT CHANGES THAT MIGHT AFFECT CHURCHES, THAT MIGHT WANT TO POST BAIL FOR MEMBER ON SAY A $200 CHARGE OR SOMETHING.

SO THE CHURCHES ARE GOING TO BE PLAYING A ROLE IN THE FINAL BILL HAT COMES OUT OF THIS ONE, IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO WATCH WHAT DOES HAPPEN IN CONFERENCE ON THAT.

>> INTERESTING.

GOOD POINT.

ANY OTHER BILLS THAT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT?

I KNOW CERTAINLY ONE THAT'S GOTTEN SOME ATTENTION THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME FOR WAS THE NOTION OF, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, NON-COMPLIANT PROSECUTORS, A BILL THAT WOULD GO AFTER PROSECUTORS THAT DON'T -- SAY THEY ARE NOT ENFORCING CERTAIN CATEGORIES OF CRIME.

>> RIGHT.

THE PROSECUTOR DEFERRAL REFERRAL BILL, WHICH MEANS THAT IF A PROSECUTOR DECLINES TO NECESSARILY PROSECUTE A WIDE RANGE OF CRIME, LOW LEVEL MARIJUANA CRIMES, LOW STAKE POKER GAME CRIMES, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN STEP IN AND REQUEST A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR FROM A LOCAL JUDGE.

THAT BILL IS BEING SHAPED RIGHT NOW, WENT THROUGH THE SENATE, I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE SOME ATTENTION PAID TO THAT IN THE HOUSE.

WE HAD A PANEL ON THAT LAST YEAR ON LAWMAKERS.

I THINK THAT IS ANOTHER THAT GAINS ATTENTION TOWARD THE END OF THE SESSION.

THEN THE PERMITLESS CARRY BILL, WHICH WE ALSO SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN PRIOR YEARS TALKING ABOUT.

INTERESTING THE BILL THAT CAME OVER FROM THE HOUSE TO THE SENATE CAME OVER ON JANUARY 12.

STILL HAS NOT BEEN ASSIGNED TO A SENATE COMMITTEE.

TYPICALLY GOTTEN OUT OF THE HOUSE AND LOST ITS WAY IN THE SENATE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE WATCHING TO SEE WHAT SENATE PROFESSOR PRO TEM RODRIC BRAY DOES WITH THAT.

AND IF LIZ BROWN CHAIRS THE COMMITTEE WHERE THE BILL HAS BEEN IN RECENT YEARS DECIDES TO GIVE THAT BILL A HEARING, THEN IF SO, WHAT SHE DOES WITH THAT.

I KNOW SHE'S UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM THE GUN RIGHTS GROUPS WHO DON'T THINK SHE'S AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH ON THE BILL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE.

THANKS FOR YOUR INSIGHT.

TALK NEXT WEEK.

>> TIME FOR OUR ANNUAL DISCUSSION OF MARIJUANA LAWS.

YOU CAN ACCESS LIVE STREAMING COVERAGE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON THE INTERNET AS WELL.

AND, REMEMBER, YOU CAN GET OUR SHOW -- ON DEMAND -- FROM XFINITY.

WELL, THAT CONCLUDES ANOTHER EDITION OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

I'M JON SCHWANTES, AND, ON BEHALF OF WFYI PUBLIC MEDIA AND INDIANA'S OTHER PUBLIC-BROADCASTING STATIONS, I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND I INVITE YOU TO VISIT WFYI.ORG FOR MORE STATEHOUSE NEWS.

UNTIL NEXT WEEK, TAKE CARE.

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