♪♪ A BILL CREATING A BILL CREATING >> A BILL CREATING ADJUNCT TEACHERS.

REDUCING TOBACCO TAXES.

PLUS, MATERIAL HARMFUL TO MINORS AND MORE ON INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING FEBRUARY 4, 2022.

ZBLN INDIANA WEEK IN.

>> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THIS WEEK, A BILL THAT PASSED THE INDIANA SENATE WOULD LET PUBLIC SCHOOLS HIRE PART TIME “ADJUNCT” TEACHERS WITHOUT ANY TEACHING TRAINING.

INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING'S JUSTIN HICKS REPORTS ITS AUTHOR SAYS IT COULD HELP ADDRESS AN ONGOING TEACHER SHORTAGE, BUT CRITICS SAY IT WILL LOWER EDUCATION QUALITY.

SENATE BILL 356 WOULD ALLOW SCHOOL CORPORATIONS TO FILL CLASSES WITH PART-TIME TEACHERS FROM THE COMMUNITY.

SEN. LINDA ROGERS (R-GRANGER) LIKENS THE ADJUNCT TEACHERS TO PART-TIME COLLEGE PROFESSORS WHO ARE INVITED TO TEACH BASED ON EXPERTISE.

THE ADJUNCT TEACHERS WOULD BE EXCLUDED FROM COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS WHICH THE INDIANA STATE TEACHERS ASSOCIATION CALLS A “UNION BUSTING” EFFORT.

HERE'S GAIL ZEHERALIS FROM THE ASSOCIATION.

>> GAIL ZEHERALIS: NOBODY'S DENYING, WE HAVE A TEACHER SHORTAGE PROBLEM.

BUT THIS IS WRONG HEADED AND I CAN'T BE ANY MORE CLEAR.

>> A BILL WITH SIMILAR LANGUAGE IS ALSO MAKING ITS WAY THROUGH THE INDIANA HOUSE.

>> IS THIS BILL AN ANSWER TO INDIANA'S TEACHER SHORTAGE?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ARIELLE BRANDY.

REPUBLICAN CHRIS MITCHEM.

JON SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND NIKI KELLY, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE REPORTER BRANDON SMITH.

ARIELLE BRANDY, ARE ADJUNCT TEACHERS A GOOD IDEA?

>> WELL, I GET THE INTENT OF THE BILL, AND I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT WE DO HAVE A TEACHER SHORTAGE AND OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM DOES DEFINITELY NEED A REVAMP IN THAT SAY.

I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS THE CORRECT WAY FOR US TO GO ABOUT IT.

THINK ABOUT ALL THE TEACHERS IN INDIANA THAT HAVE HAD TO ENDURE GETTING THE PROPER EDUCATION AND THE LICENSES IN ORDER TO BECOME A TEACHER.

IT IS LIKE THIS BILL IS SOMEWHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE TO THEM BY SAYING OKAY NOW WE'RE GOING TO PUT FOLKS WHO MIGHT BE EXPERTS IN THIS AREA INTO THE CLASSROOM.

HONESTLY, FOR ME, IT IS ANOTHER WAY FOR THE GOP TO POLITICIZE EDUCATION AND WHAT WE'RE DOING IN OUR CLASSROOMS.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE BEST WAY, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON MAKING SURE WE'RE HIRING TEACHER PAY, MAKING SURE THIS QUALITY EDUCATION WE'RE PROVIDING FOR HOOSIERS IS WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.

AND I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE ANSWER.

>> CHRIS MITCHEM, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT THE IDEA OF PARENTS KNOWING WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE CLASSROOM.

IF YOU'RE A PARENT, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH A TEACHER WITH NO TEACHER TRAINING TALKING TO YOUR KIDS?

>> ME PERSONALLY?

>> CHRIS.

>> GO AHEAD, CHRIS.

>> NO.

I THINK THIS IS A GREAT SOLUTION LED BY REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS, IT IS PUTTING THE CONTROL INTO THE LOCAL SCHOOL CORPORATION HANDS.

IF WE WERE LETTING THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WILLY-NILLY BE ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS AND THROWING TEACHERS INTO DIFFERENT SCHOOL CORPORATIONS WITHOUT REALLY KNOWING WHAT THE NEED OF THAT LOCAL SCHOOL CORPORATION.

SO WITH THE TANGIBLES OF THIS BILL YOU'RE ALLOWING LOCAL SCHOOL CORPORATIONS TO INTERVIEW APPLICANTS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT EACH PERSON THAT WALKS IN THE DOOR AND THAT REALLY ALLOWS THEM TO TAILOR THE NEED THEY NEED WITH THE TEACHERS TO THE CLASSROOM.

AND IF THEY FEEL THAT A TEACHER IS UNQUALIFIED, THEY ABSOLUTELY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DECLINE THAT.

>> NIKI KELLY, TO THAT POINT, I THINK I EVEN HEARD DEMOCRATS ON THE FLOOR DURING THIS DEBATE, I THINK MAYBE IN THE HOUSE, TALK ABOUT FOR SOME SUBJECTS, THE IDEA OF SOMEONE WITHOUT NECESSARILY TEACHER TRAINING COMING IN AND TALKING ABOUT THAT MAKES SENSE.

IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS AN IDEA THAT WILL WORK IN OUR CLASSROOMS REALLY GOING TO TO CHRIS'S POINT HOW LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS DECIDE TO APPLY THIS LAW?

>> YEAH, SOMEWHAT.

I THINK THE GENERAL ARGUMENT IS JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE AN EXPERT ON SOMETHING, JUST BECAUSE I DO JOURNALISM EVERY DAY DOESN'T KNOW THAT I KNOW HOW TO TEACH JOURNALISM.

I DIDN'T GO TO SCHOOL FOR THAT.

I DO THINK ONE THING THAT DEMOCRATS POINTED OUT ON THE BILL IS WE'VE DONE A LOT OF AVENUES IN THE LAST TEN YEARS TO GET MORE EXPERTS IN THE CLASSROOM LIKE THIS.

BUT THIS BILL DOESN'T EVEN HAVE LIKE SOMETIMES IT WILL SAY LIKE YOU'RE ALLOWED IN THE CLASSROOM IF YOU'RE WORKING TOWARD YOUR TEACHER LICENSING.

YOU KNOW, AND YOU GET IT WITHIN A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS.

BUT THIS IS JUST IN PERPETUITY, YOU CAN BE AN ADJUNCT TEACHER.

>> JON SCHWANTES, ONE ASPECT, AS THE STORY POINTED OUT WAS THE IDEA THIS IS SOMEHOW A UNION BUSTING BILL.

AND CERTAINLY I DON'T THINK ANYONE WOULD ARGUE THAT THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE IS CLOSE WITH TEACHER UNIONS IN THIS STATE.

BUT DO YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT IS BEHIND THIS BILL?

>> FOR SOME PEOPLE, PROBABLY.

I MEAN, IT'S ONE WAY TO ADDRESS THAT IF THERE IS THAT CONCERN AND PEOPLE THINK THEY'RE BEING ACCUSED FALSELY OF HARBORING THAT MOTIVATION, WOULD BE TO AMEND THE LEGISLATION SO THAT IT DEALS WITH WHAT THEY PERCEIVE TO BE A SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS.

BUT ALLOW THEM TO BE COVERED BY THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT.

SO WOULD YOU STILL HAVE TEACHERS PERHAPS WHO HAVEN'T MET THE LICENSING STANDARDS, BUT WOULD STILL RECEIVE THE SAME COMPENSATION AND THEREFORE THERE WOULD BE NO INCENTIVE FOR SCHOOL DISTRICT TO OPT FOR THE CHEAPER PLAN B.

ONE OBSERVATION ABOUT LICENSURE, AS A COUNTRY WE'RE DEALING WITH A LOT OF SHORTAGES OF CERTAIN PROFESSIONS, PHYSICIANS, THERE IS A DIRE SHORTAGE.

NURSING CERTAINLY.

HERE AND ACROSS THE STATE.

EVEN PILOTS.

AND THE AVIATION SECTOR.

DOES -- THIS IS MORE RHETORICAL.

DOES A SHORTAGE OF THOSE AREAS SUGGEST THERE SHOULD BE A LESSENING OF STANDARDS TEMPORARILY TO FILL A GAP?

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

>> TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNSCIENTIFIC, ONLINE POLL QUESTION.

THIS WEEK'S QUESTION: WOULD PART-TIME, “ADJUNCT” TEACHERS WITHOUT TEACHER TRAINING HELP ADDRESS INDIANA'S TEACHER SHORTAGE?

A, YES, OR B, NO.

LAST WEEK'S QUESTION: SHOULD TRANSGENDER STUDENTS BE BANNED FROM PARTICIPATING IN GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS?

38% OF YOU SAY YES, 62% OF YOU SAY NO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

SENATE REPUBLICANS VOTED THIS WEEK TO LOWER THE TAX ON SOME TOBACCO PRODUCTS - NOTABLY, CERTAIN VAPE PRODUCTS.

REPUBLICAN SENATOR TRAVIS HOLDMAN SAYS THE MEASURE IS THE RESULT OF BEHIND-THE-SCENES NEGOTIATIONS TO BRING “PARITY” TO THE VAPE INDUSTRY IN INDIANA.

>> LAWMAKERS ONLY RECENTLY IMPOSED THE TOBACCO TAX ON E-CIGARETTES AND E-LIQUIDS.

AND HOW THAT TAX WAS IMPOSED WAS UNEQUAL, HOLDMAN SAYS, BETWEEN “OPEN” SYSTEMS - WHICH CAN BE REFILLED - AND “CLOSED” SYSTEMS, WHICH CAN'T.

BUT DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TIM LANANE SAYS NUMEROUS STUDIES SHOW THAT A KEY WAY TO STOP PEOPLE FROM USING TOBACCO IS MAKING THE PRICE HIGHER, NOT LOWER.

>> SEN. TIM LANANE (D-ANDERSON): WE ALREADY, AS A STATE, HAVE ONE OF THE WORST HEALTH INDICATORS IN THE NATION.

AND A LOT OF THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE A HIGHER RATE THAN MOST OTHER STATES IN TERMS OF SMOKING.

>> LANANE SAYS THE TAX CUT IN THE BILL WILL AMOUNT TO ABOUT A DOLLAR PER TWO-PACK OF VAPE PENS.

>> CHRIS MITCHEM, IS “PARITY” A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO LOWER TOBACCO TAXES ON ANY PRODUCTS?

>> YEAH, I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE REPUBLICANS TRYING TO STRIKE THE BALANCE BETWEEN WHAT IS CONSIDERED A FRIENDLY BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT AND THE CONSEQUENCES THAT THAT MIGHT OCCUR.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK NO FURTHER THAN HOUSE BILL 1001 WITH THE VACCINE MANDATE AND TRYING TO BALANCE THE SCALE BETWEEN BUSINESS RIGHTS AND ALSO INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS AS WELL.

I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THIS LEGISLATION, YOU KNOW, WE CAN GET INTO THE NITTY-GRITTY OF WHAT IS CONSIDERED OPEN AND CLOSED SYSTEM.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS HOLISTICALLY AND KIND OF IN A VACUUM, IT'S QUITE FRANKLY UNFAIR THAT YOU HAVE ONE TOBACCO INDUSTRY THAT HAS A VERY SIMILAR PRODUCT, VIRTUALLY ALMOST THE SAME PRODUCT BEING TAXED MORE THAN THE OTHER.

OBVIOUSLY WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S HISTORY OF BEING HESITANT WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING CHANGES TO TOBACCO, TAXES, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS GOES AS IT MOVES FORWARD THROUGH THE PROCESS.

ALSO NOBODY WANTS TO SIT HERE AND SAY, YEAH, WE SHOULD LOWER THE TAXES ON TOBACCO PRODUCTS THAT WOULD HURT PEOPLE THAT EVEN TODAY IF WE DO TRULY WANT A FREE AND FAIR MARKET WE CAN'T BE TAXING COMPANIES THAT VIRTUALLY MAKE THE SAME PRODUCT DIFFERENTLY.

>> ARIELLE BRANDY, EXACTLY TO THAT POINT, AS CHRIS EXPLAINED, OPEN SYSTEM, CLOSED SYSTEM, THEY ARE DOING THE SAME THING FOR THE MOST PART, BUT THEY'RE BEING TAXED DIFFERENTLY, IS FIXING THAT A BAD THING?

>> I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS.

I THINK THAT WHAT WE CAN SEE IS THAT DEMOCRATS AGREE, WHEREVER WE CAN SAVE MONEY AND MAKE TAX CUTS WE ARE WILLING TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH AND QUALITY OF LIFE FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I FIND IT REALLY HARD TO FEEL AS IF THIS IS WHERE WE NEED TO BE MAKING A CUT WHEN WE OBVIOUSLY ALREADY KNOW THAT SMOKING AND TOBACCO IS ONE OF THE HIGH LEVELS IN WHICH PEOPLE HAVE POOR QUALITY OF AIR IN THIS STATE.

AND THEY ALSO HAVE A POOR QUALITY OF LIFE.

I THINK THE FOCUS NEEDS TO BE AROUND HOW WE CAN BETTER PEOPLE'S HEALTH.

THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE ANSWER AND THE BEST WAY FOR US TO MAKE THE CUT.

SO FOR THIS ONE, I DON'T THINK THIS IS WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.

>> JON SCHWANTES, IF YOU'RE SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ADVOCATING TO RAISE THE TOBACCO TAX OVERALL IN INDIANA FOR YEARS AND YEARS, AS FOR INSTANCE EVERY WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION IN THE INDIANA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE HAS, HOW FRUSTRATING, THEN, EVEN IF THIS IS ALMOST A TECHNICAL BILL TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE NOT TAXING PEOPLE UNEQUALLY, HOW FRUSTRATING IS IT TO SEE THAT THIS IS WHAT ACTUALLY GETS THROUGH?

>> I'M SURE IT'S TREMENDOUSLY FRUSTRATING.

AS YOU POINT OUT, THESE ORGANIZATIONS THIS COALITION HAS BEEN AROUND YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT FOR, WHAT, FIVE, SIX YEARS OR MORE, FIGHTING HARD TO INCREASE TAXES IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC HEALTH AS THEY PUT IT.

ONE SOLUTION FOR BACKERS OF THIS LEGISLATION WHO SAY THIS ISN'T ABOUT -- THIS ISN'T ABOUT HEALTH, THIS ISN'T ABOUT INDIANA BEING ONE OF THE LEAST HEALTHY STATES IN THE COUNTRY, WHICH IT IS, THIS IS ABOUT PARITY, WE JUST ARE ALL ABOUT FAIRNESS.

I GUESS THOSE FOLKS IN THE COALITION THAT I JUST ALLUDED TO WILL SAY THEN THE ANSWER IS TO RAISE THE TAX ON THE OTHER PART OF THE CLOSED OR OPEN END SYSTEM, I'M NO EXPERT ON SUCH THINGS, WHATEVER ONE IS NOT BEING TAXED AS MUCH AS THE OTHER, RAISE THAT ONE SO YOU DO HAVE PARITY AND YOU ARE PROVIDING THAT DISINCENTIVE TO USE PRODUCTS THAT THE EXPERTS SAY ARE NOT ADVANTAGEOUS TO OUR LONG-TERM HEALTH.

>> NIKI KELLY, THERE IS A LARGER TAX CUT DEBATE GOING ON THIS SESSION, WOULD IT BE A LITTLE SURPRISING IF THE ONLY TAX CUT THAT INDIANA SENATE REPUBLICANS APPROVE OF THIS SESSION IS ONE ON TOBACCO PRODUCTS?

>> YEAH.

THE IRONY, RIGHT?

I MEAN, MONEY-WISE, JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A FEW MILLION DOLLARS, IT IS NOT REALLY A MONEY ISSUE.

I COME AT IT FROM MORE OF A PROCESS SITUATION, WHICH IS LAST YEAR WE HAD THIS BIG FULL COMPREHENSIVE DEBATE.

THE THING THAT THESE RETAILERS ARE SAYING THIS YEAR, THEY SAID LAST YEAR, AND WE DISCOUNTED, AND WE DID IT IN A STANDALONE BILL, EVERYTHING WAS IN THE OPEN.

THIS YEAR WE HAD A YEAR LONG BEHIND-THE-SCENES CONVERSATION AD SLIPPED IT INTO A BENIGN AGENCY BILL.

SO I JUST FEEL LIKE SOMEONE GOT DUPED HERE.

BECAUSE I THOUGHT WE HAD THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION LAST YEAR.

AND WE DID GO THROUGH ALL THOSE PROS AND CONS.

AND WHAT WE CAME UP IS NOT THIS BILL.

>> CHRIS, WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO YOU FOR A QUICK SECOND.

TO BASICALLY ASK, BUT WITHOUT THE SORT OF CHUCKLE TO IT, THE QUESTION I ASKED NIKI, SENATE REPUBLICANS WE KNOW ARE A LITTLE HESITANT ABOUT THAT HOUSE TAX CUT BILL, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IF ANYTHING THEY WILL APPROVE OF THAT OR NOT.

BUT ARE VOTERS GOING TO BE OKAY IF THE ONLY THING SENATE REPUBLICANS ARE OKAY WITH CUTTING THIS YEAR IS A TAX ON SOME VAPE PRODUCTS?

>> I CERTAINLY GET WHERE THE CONCERN WOULD COME FROM, AND REFLECTING WHAT I SAID EARLIER ABOUT IT TOOK YEARS TO EVEN QUITE FRANKLY CONSIDER A TAX DECREASE ON TOBACCO PRODUCTS, OR EXCUSE ME, A TAX INCREASE ON TOBACCO PRODUCTS, NOW THE ONE MOMENT WE DECIDE TO PHOTOLY DECREASE SOMETHING, GRANTED TO BRING PARITY, AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'RE STILL DECREASING, INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY WOULD TAKE KIND OF WHAT NIKI SAID A SLIDING INTO A LARGER AGENCY BILL, AND THE DISCUSSIONS AROUND THAT.

IS THAT GOING TO TAKE YEARS TO DO?

OR IS IT JUST GOING TO BE THE DISCUSSIONS AROUND INCREASING IT AND WHETHER THAT IS GOING TO BE KIND OF THE STRUGGLE GOING FORWARD RATHER THAN DECREASING IT, THAT COULD MAYBE GET DONE IN ONE SESSION.

>> ALL RIGHT.

A BILL APPROVED BY THE INDIANA SENATE THIS WEEK REMOVES A LEGAL DEFENSE FOR SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES IF THEY'RE ACCUSED OF SHARING HARMFUL MATERIAL WITH MINORS.

UNDER THE LEGISLATION, THOSE GROUPS COULD NOT CLAIM THAT HARMFUL MATERIALS WERE SHARED WITH MINORS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES.

>> SENATOR JIM TOMES SAYS THE GOAL IS TO PREVENT CHILDREN FROM ACCESSING PORNOGRAPHIC BOOKS.

>> SEN. JIM TOMES (R-WADESVILLE): THIS IS NOT ABOUT GUNS, IT'S NOT ABOUT COMMUNISM.

IT'S ABOUT RAW, NASTY, FILTHY PORNOGRAPHIC LITERATURE.

>> THE BILL WOULD APPLY TO MATERIALS DEFINED AS HARMFUL UNDER CURRENT INDIANA LAW.

BUT LIBRARIANS FROM ACROSS THE STATE OPPOSE THE BILL BECAUSE THEY SAY IT COULD LIMIT WHAT'S INCLUDED IN PUBLIC LIBRARIES THAT SERVE ALL AGES.

SENATOR FADY QADDOURA AGREES WITH THE INTENT.

BUT HE SAYS THE BILL DOESN'T IMPROVE THE PROCESS TO HANDLE PARENT COMPLAINTS - ESPECIALLY ABOUT OTHER TYPES OF MATERIAL THEY MIGHT SEE AS HARMFUL.

>> SEN. FADY QADDOURA (D-INDIANAPOLIS): THIS BILL ADDRESSES ONE - OR TRIES OR ATTEMPTS TO ADDRESS ONE ASPECT - BUT COMPLETELY IGNORES OTHER OFFENSIVE HARMFUL MATERIAL THAT IS ACTUALLY SITTING ON THE SHELVES OF OUR LIBRARIES.

>> NIKI KELLY, WE HEARD THIS PLAY OUT ON THE SENATE FLOOR.

IS THIS ANOTHER BILL WHERE THE PROBLEMS SEEM TO BE ISOLATED INCIDENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN HANDLED?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THEY'VE ALL ALREADY BEEN HANDLED, EVEN THE BILL'S AUTHOR CONCEDES THAT THEY'RE ISOLATED INCIDENCES.

I WAS PROVIDED SOME EXAMPLES OF EXCERPTS THAT WERE EXTREMELY GRAPHIC.

HOWEVER, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, LIKE I WAS JUST GIVEN ONE PARAGRAPH OR TWO OUT OF A 200 PAGE BOOK.

YOU HAVE TO KIND OF PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE WHETHER THE ENTIRE BOOK IS HARMFUL TO A MINOR OR NOT.

AND EVEN THOUGH THIS EDUCATIONAL EXEMPTION STILL WOULD BE GONE, IT IS STILL A PRETTY HIGH BAR FOR A PROSECUTOR TO BRING A CASE ON THIS AND ACTUALLY PROVE THAT IT IS OBSCENE OR PORNOGRAPHIC.

THERE MIGHT BE TEACHERS OR LIBRARIANS WHO DON'T WANT TO GO ANYWHERE NEAR THAT AND JUST BACK DOWN ON GIVING LOTS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF BOOKS OR PAMPHLETS JUST TO AVOID ANY ACCUSATIONS.

>> JON SCHWANTES, EXACTLY TO THAT POINT.

NIKI AND I AS WE WERE SITTING ON THE SENATE FLOOR LISTENING TO THE DEBATE, BOTH PULLED OUT THE SECTION OF THE CODE THAT DEFINES MATERIAL HARMFUL TO MINORS, IT IS A VERY HIGH BAR.

IT IS TO JIM TOMES'S POINT, REALLY ABOUT ALMOST EXACTLY PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIALS, AND KIND OF NOTHING ELSE, IF YOU READ THE STRICT LANGUAGE OF THE LAW.

BUT HOW MUCH WILL A BILL LIKE THIS STIFLE WHAT ANYONE QUITE FRANKLY KIDS AND ADULTS IN PUBLIC LIBRARIES MIGHT HAVE ACCESS TO.

>> ANY TIME ANYBODY SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT PULLING, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, DANGEROUS BOOKS FROM PUBLIC LIBRARIES OR SCHOOLS, I GET NERVOUS AND ANGRY.

AS YOU KNOW, I HAVE A REPUTATION OF SOMETHING OF A FIRST AMENDMENT ABSOLUTIST, I'M PROUD OF THAT.

I BELIEVE THAT IF A PRIVATE SCHOOL, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT, PUT ONE BOOK, THE BIBLE ON THE SHELF IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.

THAT'S FINE, OR PRIVATE BOOKSTORE, SELL WHAT YOU WANT, BUT A GOVERNMENT TAXPAYER ENTITY HAS TO DEAL WITH THE FIRST AMENDMENT, WHICH IS THERE FOR A REASON.

AS SOON AS WE START TRYING TO DISCERN AND DEBATE WHAT ONE PERSON'S OBSCENITY OR PORNOGRAPHY, TALK ABOUT A SLIPPERY SLOPE, WE'RE THERE.

I WOULD POINT OUT THAT WHEN THIS WAS UNDER DEBATE IN THE HOUSE, COMMITTEE, I BELIEVE IT WAS MATT PIERCE, DEMOCRAT FROM BLOOMINGTON WHO POINTED OUT THAT THE DESCRIPTION, THE FORMAL DESCRIPTION, OR DEFINITION IN THIS PROPOSED STATUTE HAS TO SPELL OUT WHAT IS DEEMED TO BE OFFENSIVE.

AND SO IF YOU READ THAT, AND ANYBODY WHO HAS -- BORED ON A WEEKEND, IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SCANDALOUS PROSE, I'M SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY -- SO TO MATT PIERCE'S POINT, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE INDIANA CODE CAN NO LONGER BE OFFERED IN PUBLIC LIBRARIES, OR IN SCHOOL?

I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE INTENTION, ONE COULD SAY THAT IS IN FACT THE CASE HERE.

>> CHRIS MITCHEM, THE REALITY IS THAT THIS BILL IS NOT BEING DEBATED IN A VACUUM.

AGAIN, TO NIKI'S POINT, TO JIM TOMES' POINT, THE EXISTING LANGUAGE IN INDIANA LAW ABOUT WHAT IS EXACTLY HARMFUL TO MINORS WHEN IT COMES TO THESE MATERIALS IS A PRETTY HIGH BAR.

BUT WE'RE DEBATING THIS BILL AT A TIME WHEN WE'RE ALSO DEBATING THE SCHOOL CURRICULUM BILL, AND LEGISLATORS ARE BANNING BOOKS FROM SCHOOL, AND A RIGHT WING GROUP THAT HAD A BOOK BURNING.

IS THAT A BIGGER PROBLEM, THAT NOT IN A VACUUM THIS BILL LOOKS LIKE IT IS TIP TOEING A LITTLE CLOSE TO SOME PRETTY TROUBLING CENSORSHIP.

>> A SIMILAR BILL WAS FILED LAST YEAR AFTER -- EDUCATION COMMITTEE BEFORE IT GOT TO THE FLOOR, JUST BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE THE SUPPORT FROM SENATE LAWMAKERS.

AND I THINK NOW WHEN YOU LOOK AT KIND OF THE TEMPERATURE OF EDUCATION AROUND THE COUNTRY AND IN INDIANA, SOME OF THE LEGISLATION THAT WE'RE CONSIDERING THIS YEAR, THIS SAME LANGUAGE IS ALSO IN HOUSE BILL 1134, THE EDUCATION TRANSPARENCY THAT IS GOING OVER TO THE SENATE.

THAT TELLS YOU HOW BIG OF A TEMPERATURE CHANGE IT'S BEEN SINCE LAST SESSION GOING INTO THIS ONE, AND KIND OF WHAT SENATOR SAID, EVERYONE AGREES WE SHOULD NOT BE GIVING PORNOGRAPHIC MATERIALS TO CHILDREN.

THE DISCUSSION IS SUBJECTING TEACHERS AND LIBRARIANS TO LEVEL 6 FELONIES FOR SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ALREADY BE IN THEIR COLLECTION, IS THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO?

>> ARIELLE BRANDY TO THAT POINT, IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A BAD BILL, MATERIAL HARMFUL TO MINORS SHOULD BE KEPT OUT OF THE HAND OF MINORS, WHAT IS WRONG WITH TRYING TO DO THAT?

>> I AGREE.

WE DEFINITELY WANT TO KEEP THOSE BOOKS OUT OF THE HANDS OF OUR KIDS.

AS CHRIS MENTIONED, ACROSS THE COUNTRY WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF THIS LEGISLATION HAPPEN.

LET'S BE REAL, A LOT OF THIS IS HAPPENING AROUND THE ISSUES OF CRT AND THE TROUBLED PARENTS WHO ARE BRINGING UP A STINK ABOUT THEIR KIDS BEING TAUGHT ABOUT RACISM, LGBTQ COMMUNITY AND THINGS THEY DON'T WANT THEIR KIDS TO KNOW ABOUT THAT ARE THE REAL LIFE SITUATIONS THAT KIDS ARE DEALING WITH EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I KNOW THAT IF I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH SOMETHING THAT'S BEING READ IN THE CLASSROOM OR ANY TOPIC THAT'S DISCUSSED, I AS A PARENT KNOW I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DISCUSS IT WITH THE TEACHER, OR WITH THE LIBRARY.

I HAVE NO ISSUES WITH THAT.

I WANT MY KIDS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE IN ALL OF THE INFORMATION THEY CAN ABOUT WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING AROUND THEM.

THIS IS A WAY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO ERASE CULTURE IN THE HISTORY OF THE THINGS THAT SOME PARENTS MIGHT BE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THEIR CHILDREN LEARNING B.

BOOK BANNING IS NOT SOMETHING I THINK WE SHOULD BE GETTING INVOLVED WITH.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PORNOGRAPHIC IMAGES, EVERYTHING TO DO WITH UNCOMFORTABLEABILITY OF THE GOP NOT WANTING TO TALK ABOUT RACE AND THE ISSUES HAPPENING TODAY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LEGISLATION TO ALLOW HIGHWAY WORK ZONE SPEED CAMERAS CLEARED AN IMPORTANT HURDLE THIS WEEK AS THE SENATE APPROVED THE MEASURE AFTER YEARS OF REJECTING IT.

>> REPUBLICAN SENATOR JON FORD HAS AUTHORED A CAMERA TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT BILL FOR YEARS.

BUT IT HAD BEEN BLOCKED IN COMMITTEE HE SAYS IT'S NOW MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER TO GIVE THE STATE ANOTHER TOOL TO SLOW DOWN DRIVERS.

>> SEN. JON FORD (R-TERRE HAUTE): AS WE'RE INVESTING MORE AND MORE INTO OUR HIGHWAYS, WE'RE PUTTING MORE AND MORE OF OUR HOOSIERS OUT ON THESE HIGHWAYS.

AND WHAT HAS BEEN PROVEN IN OTHER STATES IS THESE SYSTEMS HAVE SLOWED PEOPLE DOWN.

>> UNDER THE BILL, DRIVERS WOULD BE TICKETED IF THEY'RE CAUGHT ON CAMERA GOING AT LEAST 11 MILES PER HOUR OVER THE SPEED LIMIT WHEN WORKERS ARE PRESENT.

THE FIRST VIOLATION WOULD ONLY BE A WARNING.

A 75-DOLLAR FINE COMES WITH THE SECOND TICKET, AND 150 DOLLARS FOR EACH TICKET AFTER THAT.

THE MEASURE NOW FACES AN UNCERTAIN FUTURE IN THE HOUSE, WHERE A SIMILAR BILL FAILED TO MAKE IT TO THE FLOOR THIS YEAR.

>> JON SCHWANTES, COULD THIS FINALLY BE THE YEAR FOR THIS BILL?

>> WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY INCHING CLOSER TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

I THINK ONE REASON YOU'RE SEEING IT ADVANCE IN A MANNER IT HASN'T BEFORE, SOME OF THE SAFEGUARDS BUILT IN, AS YOU NOTE, IT IS A WARNING FIRST TIME.

THERE IS A MECHANISM FOR AN APPEAL, THERE IS AN APPEAL PROCESS SPELLED OUT.

IF YOU CONTEND THAT SOMEBODY ELSE WAS DRIVING YOUR VEHICLE, BORROWED YOUR CAR.

THERE ARE NO POINTS, OF COURSE, ASSIGNED AGAINST SOMEONE'S DRIVING RECORD FOR THIS.

IT IS SIMPLY THE FINE.

AND ALSO THERE IS A LANGUAGE THAT INDICATES THAT THIS IS NOT TO BE USED, THESE IMAGES, FOR THE PROSECUTION OF OTHER CRIMES.

IN FACT I THINK THERE IS, AT LEAST ONE OF THE BILLS BUILDS IN A TWO-YEAR LIMITATION ON HOW LONG IMAGES CAN BE KEPT BEFORE DESTROYED.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, YOU STILL HAVE SOME PEOPLE WITHIN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AND WE SAW THIS CERTAINLY ALREADY IN FLORIDA DEBATE WHO SIMPLY SAY THAT IS TOO BIG BROTHERISH.

WE DON'T NEED CAMERAS ANYWHERE RECORDING PEOPLE'S ACTIVITIES.

AND YOU CAN PUT ALL THE SAFEGUARDS AND CAVEATS IN THE LEGISLATION THAT YOU WANT, AND THERE IS STILL GOING TO -- THEY'RE STILL GOING TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE OVERALL PREMISE OF CAMERA-AIDED SURVEILLANCE.

IT HAS GONE FURTHER, WHETHER IT WILL GET TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK IS A QUESTION MARK.

>> ARIELLE, TO THAT POINT, THIS IS ONE OF THE FUN BILLS, IT IS NOT PARTISAN, REPUBLICANS FOR IT, DEMOCRATS FOR IT, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AGAINST IT.

IS THIS SOMETHING INDIANA NEEDS CONSIDERING WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE ON THE ROADWAYS?

>> I THINK SO, I WILL DEFINITELY SAY DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO THIS ISSUE FOR A WHILE ESPECIALLY FROM THEIR UNION NUMBERS.

THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THEY HAVE BANTING TO HAPPEN IN INDIANA.

I THINK THAT WE DEFINITELY SHOULD MOVE TOWARDS IT.

I MEAN WE WANT TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF WORKERS WHEN THEY'RE WORKING ON THE HIGHWAYS.

AND I UNDERSTAND THE BIG BROTHER CNCEPT THAT FOLKS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.

I GET THAT.

BUT I THINK WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE MAKING SURE THAT WORKERS ARE SAFE, WHETHER THEY'RE IN THE CLASSROOM, AND IN THE WORKPLACE, WORKING ON OUR HIGHWAYS, THIS IS A WAY TO ENSURE THAT IT CAN BE DONE.

I THINK THAT IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING DEMOCRATS ARE ONBOARD WITH AND HAVE BEEN FOR A WHILE.

I THINK WE DO NEED TO MAKE FORWARD WITH THESE MEASURES DEFINITELY BECOME LAW.

>> FINALLY, IT'S HALFTIME AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

CHRIS MITCHEM, WHAT GRADE WOULD YOU GIVE LAWMAKERS HALFWAY THROUGH THEIR 2022 SESSION?

>> I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT BOTH THE REPUBLICAN AND SENATE PRIORITIES, I THINK YOU GOT TO GIVE THEM AT LEAST AN A. I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF THE PRIORITIES THEY'RE WANTING TO GET THROUGH THEY DID.

NOW WE KNOW SINCE THE BEGINNING OF SESSION, THEY'VE IDENTIFIED THE SAME PROBLEMS THAT HAVE VERY DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

BCKLE IN, IT WILL BE INTERESTING SECOND HALF.

>> I AGREE.

ARIELLE, WHAT GRADE?

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS -- WHAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE DEALING WITH AND THE GOOD WORK THEY'RE TRYING TO DO.

I GIVE A B, AN A, THEY'RE REALLY TRYING OUT THERE.

BUT THE GOP, I MEAN, MAN, OH, MAN WITH THIS SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, Y'ALL ARE REALLY, WOO, MAKING IT HARD OUT HERE FOR HOOSIERS, I'M NOT REALLY HAPPY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON, MY HALF TIME REPORT IS DEFINITELY AN F, WE'RE NOT DOING RIGHT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> TO SAY THE LEAST.

>> EFFICIENT FOR SURE.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ARIELLE BRANDY.

REPUBLICAN CHRIS MITCHEM.

JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

AND NIKI KELLY OF THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

IF YOU'D LIKE A PODCAST OF THIS PROGRAM YOU CAN FIND IT AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR STARTING MONDAY YOU CAN STREAM IT OR GET IT ON DEMAND FROM XFINITY AND ON THE WFYI APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUS ♪♪ >> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE >> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCASTING